Dude. Your spirit animal is Godzilla, your pulling model is Yoshi, and your passion for math is on another level. Are you sure you weren't raised for a couple of your formative years in a Japanese village?
You can hold down space bar to fast forward with sound. The arrow keys to fast forward/rewind a lot. The spacebar to pause and once paused can use the "." key to go forward frame by frame.
the difference comes in the hand coverage. holding a heavy dumbbell in the middle of your palm compared to holding it just below your fingers will almost half how much weight you can hold. so while the taller guy needs (in this video) 10% stronger side and back pressure, the shorter guy will need significantly more strength in wrist flexion, i'd argue more than 10%. rvj in a recent interview said he wrist curls 85lbs yet you never see him lose his hand.
What are you talking about, rvj never loses his hand? Sasho toprolled him and todd bent his wrist back first round in their 2015 wal match in the straps
absolute masterclass from uncle todd, first time i understood the physics of the micro movements that arm wrestlers make. By the way, todd might be a better commentator than travis.
I remember reading a while back that John said the perfect combination for arm wrestling would be a short arm with a wide hand. I understand why a short arm would be a leverage advantage. Is a wide hand also an advantage because of leverage, or some other reason?
Greatly appreciate this video. I am in a unique place not only do I have a long forearm, and hand. I have a short torso. I am only 2 years in but I have been telling all of my training partners that I do not in fact have the leverage advantage. They have the ability to act on my long lever. It requires more strength from me to keep things on my side of the table and to finish in a top roll. I have come to the realization that I need to seriously increase my brachioradialis strength as my hand and wrist tend to do alright. Trying to figure out what else I need to train in order to help keep things on my side of the table. Either way, stream of consciousness typing has taken over. Thank you, sir! Tra - Flash Pin Productions
Yep uncle todd I have a question . I am 174 cm tall my elbow to finger length is 48 cm which style I choose inside or outside I am very confused. I am equally strong both of these pla reply love from India. Which categorie suitable for me .
Ok ok uncle Todd. This time I gotta teach you a little bit. What you describe for the forearm and ellbow torc is correct. BUT. You have two levers. Ein Lastarm (forearm) und Hebelarm (the upper arm!!!!!). And they cancel each other more or less out with the advantage you have with a shorter forearm. Because shorter forearms usually come with a shorter upper arms. The upper arm is the attacking lever, attacking with muscle power and the bodyweight!! ALL these arguments get massivly interupted by biomechanics aka handcontrol and/or setup. Your first argument with the height over the pinning pad. What do you exactly want to say with that? I mean both have to start a the same height because they have to grab each other, hand griping mechanics aside... Maybe some more thoughts on biomechanics. Longer arms usually come with more muscle mass with usually means more contraction force. Even if a guy doesn't have thick arms, with sometimes is an optical illusion because of the lenght of the arms. Muscle length plays also a role too. Because more muscle length equals more scrcomer units in a row with can create additory force (Devon Larratt as example). But also Oleg Zhokh. He has a very big radiobrachialis (thickness AND lenght). Insertion points of muscle are another interesting point... Conclusion for me: Weight classes make sense!! Strength is essential!! On the one hand because just the sake of it but also to manipulate you opponant for more sufficient pulling or at least to not get manipulated too bad yourself Sorry my English flawes, but I hope everything is more or less unterstandable Cheers one of your annoying nephews ;-)
You miss several points Longer upper arms put more torque in the shoulder and compounds the disadvantage, it does not cancel it. The reach advantage with the higher distance above the pad makes it very difficult to pin a long armed person, you have to open them up more and short arm people run out of room Your argument about long arms having more muscle mass does not make sense. Both bodies have to make weight, in my case 230 pounds. If longer bones tend to weigh more than short bones, that requires less muscle for the tall person. Simple observations confirm this. The tallest people in the class are not the most massive. Weight lifting records are dominated by the shorter people not the taller people. This video is about the general theory of armwrestling relativity. Biomechanics are considered in the special theory of armwrestling relativity. Short arms have the leverage advantage there also.
@@toddhutchings906 "Longer upper arms put more torque in the shoulder and compounds the disadvantage, it does not cancel it." -> So if two people get stuck into a hook, and the other person tries to pin you with sidepressure (to keep things simple), he uses his bodyweight and his trunk muscles to do so. So your argument is the guy on the receifing end, gets more torc/twist to resist in his shoulder when his upper arm is longer? In my opinion the main mechanics here is just a torc transfer to the shoulder mechanicly through the bone. Bone lenght doesn't matter. Assuming the bone doesn't break of course. Again same situation but now let's focus on the guy how tries to pin. He doesn't us concentric inside rotation from the shoulder muscle. Most of the time these are like you arm used more in a static facion. What you use more so, is your bodyweight and strenght of you torso to apply through your upper arm through you ellbow and hand. Let's assume you ellbow angle and handposition doesn't get changed, than you can apply more pressure with a longer upper arm on you opponants hand than with a shorter. Don't you agree with that? A good example of this mechanics and the use of the power of the upper arm as a lever, was the match between Devon Larratt vs Denis Cyplenkov. Of course I mean the right hand match which Devon won. "Your argument about long arms having more muscle mass does not make sense. Both bodies have to make weight, in my case 230 pounds." Well of couse that is true. But I mean with a longer frame you can put on more muscles potentially. You talk about the tall naturally thin guy. This is a physiological argument which is also true but gets seriously chalenged with the use of steroids and other substances. Which is a reality in todays armwrestling... "If longer bones tend to weigh more than short bones, that requires less muscle for the tall person. Simple observations confirm this. The tallest people in the class are not the most massive." That's a strange argument somehow, and your logic is flawed imo. Bigger heavier bodies (with longer levers) would rather require more strenght to carry the body weight than shorter one with lighter bones. The reason these tall people usually are skinny is an optical effect + that they often acutally carry less weigh per height. It's a fact that taller people have lower BMIs than short ones. But the reason is not that they have to use less muscle because of their longer and heavier bones, but the reasons are physiolocial. Your heart doesn't grow proportionally with body height. You heart doesn't want to supply so much mass. That's why big people die earlier. Also your testicles are not proportinally bigger with height, this means also not proportionally more testosteron (which is a major factor of how much muscle mass you can carry). "Weight lifting records are dominated by the shorter people not the taller people. " Yes within the weight class. But not if we put weight classes aside. Than a certain height becomes a requirement, to reach absolut strenght peaks. The Georgian guy with the over all world record is also 6.4....
@@GangdamStyle20 You are the one that said weight classes made sense. In my experience the different in strength between arm wrestling weight classes is not not proportionate to body weight. As a middle weight I have competed in super heavy weight classes You keep bringing up body mechanics. This must be a specialty of yours. Do a basic static or kinematic analysis first. Torque equals force time distance.
Elbow torque depends on the ligament attachment ratios. And if we are talking about side pressure force production it’s the ratio of arm length multipled by humeral head girth. Longer arms generally have larger humeral heads so longer arms aren’t necessarily at a mechanical disadvantage. But they have reach advantage as you say and hold more muscle. It’s why it’s so rare to see shorter guys in the heavier classes despite how large the genetic pool for people with average height is
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. A longer forearm applies more torque to the elbow at the same force applied to the hand. Taller people also tend to have longer upper arms, so their shoulders ( and humeral head) is also under higher torque. The longer arm is a mechanical disadvantage. Please make a video or provide analysis otherwise. I would love to see it
@@toddhutchings906 Thanks for replying! It’s not entirely related to your video as your video was primarily technical analysis. I’m making a comment how people assume longer arms have worse force production. For example, some people see taller guys do their back pressure lifts and say it’s even more impressive because their arm is long. But you can’t actually tell someone’s lever efficient based on external lengths. You’d have to MRI them to actually see where their elbow flexors attached compared to their forearm length. As the skeleton gets larger our tendon attachments distances scale with overall bone length. Insertion points also vary between individuals. MRI of climbers have found some peoples fingers had the their tendon attachments twice as far from the joint as other climbers. If the above concept makes sense then I can explain what I meant by side pressure mechanical advantage vs disadvantage. I also planned on making a short instagram video but ive been too lazy.
@@adamfalzarano383 +@todd You both have good arguments. The reality of sidepressure which is created on the table can be very complex imo. Sidepressure created with the musclular internal rotarors of the humerus (pec,lat, subscabularis, teres major, anterior delts) or the kiping othe the body sideways. Imo the most sidepressure comes from kiping and that's why I see the upper arm as an attacking lever which should be as long as possible. A good exampel of the usage of this mechanism used to be Andry Pushkar...
@@jamesw1698 Get you armwrestling fundamentals strong, get used to certain style, than you should be able to use your long upper arm as an advantage. Without hand control this is not possible...
@@toddhutchings906 Hmm, I wonder what is going to happen. Yoshi seems to be a strong guy which is not totally predictable. Didn't he beat John one time with a kind of knuckes high toproll which was also ending up in a open toproll almost kingsmove...??? Good luck to you
@@Pepe-pq3om devon is shooting forward, and then people pull back against that and all of them lose wrist, you need equal webbing with tall puller otherwise you will pull underneath them. Ermes exploited vitaly not pulling very well and shoot forward like crazy and kept his wrist
I’d take the long arm, just because of the height, especially if the referee is not doing his job and making tall guy back his elbow up… match come to mind is Devon and Jon at king of the table.
John should not have allowed that, but he is a sweetheart. Devon should not have taken it. That is the difference between seeking Excellence or seeking Victory.
For pulling guys with longer arms. Toproll vs toproll. I always feel more pressure on my wrist when the guy got longer arms. Shorter arms toproller need to have wrist of iron. Ermes and Bresnan are good exemple. Best combo IMO is a hooker with a longer arms like Jordan Tsonev. Its almost impossible to toproll these guy
Great video so far, do you think sumo armwrestling would be a more equitable means of addressing limb length disparities? Elbow fouls slow things down in my opinion, at first blush sumo seems to make for a faster and more exciting format.
I don’t think limb length disparities needs to be addressed. I am almost always the shortest guy in the class with the shortest arms. Yoshi did fine here.
Hi Todd, great stuff thanks for this, learned a lot. I enjoy the sport of arm-wrestling very much and watch most matched, thus I am up to date. Please make more videos as such, want to learn from the Pro :). Whish you the best for your up and coming match, bring home that trophy! God bless.
I have a theory that you're pulling Yoshi only because you're Toddzilla and he's from Japan 🤔 the guy has been injured and then retired for many years. How could he be in top shape like you?
The real question that matters in the long/short arm debate is: is it true that it's easier for short armed people to bench press the same amount of weight as a long armed person? 😂
Hey Todd, Bob brown made a video a few years back talking about a similar topic (long arm vs short arm) and what Bob says (I’m summarizing here) is that it’s true that the short arm has a leverage advantage through the elbow joint , however, it does not have the leverage advantage through the wrist joint. Due to the range the longer arm has, you have more ability to generate backpressure. So in other words, once the short arm gets into a hook, he has a better leverage advantage. But if the wrist of the short arm guy goes back, then the leverage advantage switched to the long arm. Of course this goes against the example you give here with Ron vs Yoshi. Is this a case by case scenario? What makes you disagree with Bob? Just curious.
I am not sure what is being described here. A longer fore arm puts more torque on the elbow for the same backpressure. Curling your wrist brings the force closer to your elbow and reduces elbow torque. The strap, when used to apply force from below the wrist joint also allow a higher level of force to be developed for the same amount of elbow torque. Everybody’s back pressure should he higher in the strap compared to without. Longer arms, even better, larger hands have advantages. It is just not leverage. A minor point to be sure, but we should all agree on the nomenclature.
@@devonspancakes9602 I guess the reason I say a little bit of posting back pressure is because if you have a long arm, assuming you drag your elbow to the back of the pad, you still could be on your opponent's side of the table if you don't have hammer curl height.
*Uncle Todd !!!* *I like everything you do, you're my all time favourite Uncle Todd. I look your style, i like your side pressure , i like your dance , i like Aunt Suzz....* *Moreover that i like your Hairstyle !!!*
I'm 6'6 with ridiculously long arms but I have small bones/frame unfortunately. Having long arms with small bones probably not a good thing in arm wrestling and that's why I'm just a yuuuuge fan lol
@@eutiger4789 well Devons bone frame is a lot bigger than mine. In high school I was almost 6'7 and only weighed about 180lbs lol. Tall and very lanky. I'm 44yrs old now and old age shrunk me a inch but I stay around 240lbs these days. I've been as high as 280lbs but just had 0 energy. Long forearm with small bones probably not a good thing with some of these strong thick bones fellers. Just so tough for us taller guys to pack on muscle that's noticeable without the pancakes
@@toddhutchings906 ahhh I never knew that. I always assumed I was just stuck with it lol. At one point I was blending stuff like peanut butter and protein shakes just trying to gain weight but was so tough to gain it. As I got older it became easy to gain but had no clue how to get the bones thicker.
Hey man im the same way. Im 6'6. Been doing AW for maybe a year and climbing up pretty quick. Just keep at it. The only thing i hate is when i win alot of people will say its because i have the leverage advantage. Even though they have it 😂 also annoying since it takes your efforts away and they blame it on genetics alone. Anyway. For me. I prefer outside and defensive pulling for my arms. I can keep people in a match forever and they get burnt out. But when it comes to finishing people off. It takes a little more effort for me
If only we had another East Asian vs North American, Short arm vs Long arm match coming up? Hmmmmm. Queue: Korean Hulk (Je-yong Ha) VS Auden Larratt. 💪👊
@@SabinBabblatchu In reality, from a physics perspective, a huge hand (like Levan’s) combined with a short arm (like Todd’s or Sasho’s) would provide maximal advantage in armwrestling.
@@user-hn9qw7ou8d its a bit more complicated than that. A shorter arm has no ability to climb. You have to rely on a good setup and being SUPER strong in containment. I get why you would think that, but theres more than one lever and fulcrum in arm wrestling. When someones wrist has the ability to match the opponents meta-carpal height, the short arm needs to be much stronger to win.
RUclips algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... engineering and physics of AW 🤓 there's definitely plusses and minuses to a long arm, and the short arm. seems pretty simple to me.
Weight generally filters for those things. If you want to be in a smaller handed class, lose weight. I kinda like that about the sport. The hand sizes kinda show you what weight you should be at.
You fuckers crack me up. I have seen him listed at 6’3” at Golds Arm and WAL website. I have seen him listed at 6’4” on the stats image at WAL and EvW videos. I have never seen him listed as 6’2”. Just calm down.
@@toddhutchings906 While you're cracking up, look at his stats on his most RECENT King Of The Table match with Matt Mask😉 Of course I can simply tell by using my eyes.
whatever advice Michael Todd was giving him , he never followed it, wtf didn't he pull more back so that Yoshi wouldn't be so tight. Means he was just weaker. toproll and what?
Bath disappointing in this, but who knows maybe he had a bad day. I love Japanese technology too, but in any strength sport Japanese men shouldn't have a chance with americans. I mean they are originally north chinese for gods sake.
![ROSÉ(로제) - APT. (Band VER.) (With. 이영지) [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IW8qaemx74g/mqdefault.jpg)
Uncle todd giving out free knowledge that influencers today will release a paid course for, GOAT for a reason
the Rob Bath vs Yoshi Kanai match is one of the best matches EVER! Possibly as many "ready go's" as Ron VS Zuran! just INSANE!
Dude. Your spirit animal is Godzilla, your pulling model is Yoshi, and your passion for math is on another level. Are you sure you weren't raised for a couple of your formative years in a Japanese village?
Very nice 😉
You can hold down space bar to fast forward with sound. The arrow keys to fast forward/rewind a lot. The spacebar to pause and once paused can use the "." key to go forward frame by frame.
The more you know ….❤️
You’re a legend m8
You are very kind
Yoshi is a legend!👍💪❤️
Todd you should be a commentary in the east vs west event that would be so cool!
No way. He'd be forced to stay onsite for ~ 8 hours...
@@Autumnnss 😂❤️❤️❤️
the difference comes in the hand coverage. holding a heavy dumbbell in the middle of your palm compared to holding it just below your fingers will almost half how much weight you can hold. so while the taller guy needs (in this video) 10% stronger side and back pressure, the shorter guy will need significantly more strength in wrist flexion, i'd argue more than 10%. rvj in a recent interview said he wrist curls 85lbs yet you never see him lose his hand.
also how far your thumb starts down on your hand. if you have a far-back set thumb you can grab the dude by his wrist if you want to
The strap helps the short guy hand, but does nothing for tall guy elbow.
So it would be interesting for shorter guys pull in a style where having the wrist curl is not important
What are you talking about, rvj never loses his hand? Sasho toprolled him and todd bent his wrist back first round in their 2015 wal match in the straps
@@sterek99 Most often then not he doesn't lose his hand
Loved this! This is the kinda stuff you don’t hear from anyone🎉
You're the man, Uncle Todd. Stay Cappy ♡
Thanks Uncle Todd your RUclips channel is a tremendous source of knowledge
Uncle Todd, I did not know I was going to have to break out my T93. Love it.
absolute masterclass from uncle todd, first time i understood the physics of the micro movements that arm wrestlers make. By the way, todd might be a better commentator than travis.
Thank you uncle todd
Todd would you be okay doing duo commentary with John? I think u 2 match like hell
I really like John.
@@toddhutchings906who doesn’t
Hello manchild Todd. Thanks for sharing.
AP physics coming in clutch with uncle Todd here 💪💪
😂
Ive learned so much from this Channel 💪 time to sit down and learn something new 💪
Ok Todd needs to be a commentator in armwrestling events👍
I remember reading a while back that John said the perfect combination for arm wrestling would be a short arm with a wide hand. I understand why a short arm would be a leverage advantage. Is a wide hand also an advantage because of leverage, or some other reason?
Reach and containment
Strongest fackin "uncle" ive ever heard of on planet earth lol!
One of the greatest matches ever
Professor Todd! Who says engineers only drink too much beer? lol!
as a frequent CAD user i appreciate the use of that centerline on your white board drawing lol
Greatly appreciate this video. I am in a unique place not only do I have a long forearm, and hand. I have a short torso. I am only 2 years in but I have been telling all of my training partners that I do not in fact have the leverage advantage. They have the ability to act on my long lever. It requires more strength from me to keep things on my side of the table and to finish in a top roll. I have come to the realization that I need to seriously increase my brachioradialis strength as my hand and wrist tend to do alright. Trying to figure out what else I need to train in order to help keep things on my side of the table. Either way, stream of consciousness typing has taken over. Thank you, sir!
Tra - Flash Pin Productions
Now we can clearly see who has PhD in Armwrestling and who has it in Agriculture (pumpkin method)
😂
Uncle Todd coming in clutch when I can’t sleep.
Same😂. I was literally just training along with his last max side pressure video
Someone please tell Todd what OBS is 🤣
Maybe,once I am a media juggernaut.
Yoshi's shoulder is the real Legend.
Yep uncle todd I have a question . I am 174 cm tall my elbow to finger length is 48 cm which style I choose inside or outside I am very confused.
I am equally strong both of these pla reply love from India.
Which categorie suitable for me .
If you can do both you are very rare and do not have to choose.
Hook n drag
I have small hand 🖐️ can i become best toproller in which thick i need to focus too much for it
Focus on being best armwrestler, not best toproller. There are no prizes for best toproller.
Toddzilla is just so fckng awesome aside from being an absolute raging savage on the table lol!
Hey Todd I’m 5,7 and have the shortest arm out of everybody I’ve met (elbow to wrist), what is the one thing I should mainly focus on?
Focus on watching Uncle Todd videos 😎
Cupping, side pressure
Ok ok uncle Todd. This time I gotta teach you a little bit.
What you describe for the forearm and ellbow torc is correct. BUT. You have two levers. Ein Lastarm (forearm) und Hebelarm (the upper arm!!!!!). And they cancel each other more or less out with the advantage you have with a shorter forearm. Because shorter forearms usually come with a shorter upper arms. The upper arm is the attacking lever, attacking with muscle power and the bodyweight!!
ALL these arguments get massivly interupted by biomechanics aka handcontrol and/or setup.
Your first argument with the height over the pinning pad. What do you exactly want to say with that? I mean both have to start a the same height because they have to grab each other, hand griping mechanics aside...
Maybe some more thoughts on biomechanics. Longer arms usually come with more muscle mass with usually means more contraction force. Even if a guy doesn't have thick arms, with sometimes is an optical illusion because of the lenght of the arms. Muscle length plays also a role too. Because more muscle length equals more scrcomer units in a row with can create additory force (Devon Larratt as example). But also Oleg Zhokh. He has a very big radiobrachialis (thickness AND lenght). Insertion points of muscle are another interesting point...
Conclusion for me:
Weight classes make sense!!
Strength is essential!! On the one hand because just the sake of it but also to manipulate you opponant for more sufficient pulling or at least to not get manipulated too bad yourself
Sorry my English flawes, but I hope everything is more or less unterstandable
Cheers one of your annoying nephews ;-)
You miss several points
Longer upper arms put more torque in the shoulder and compounds the disadvantage, it does not cancel it.
The reach advantage with the higher distance above the pad makes it very difficult to pin a long armed person, you have to open them up more and short arm people run out of room
Your argument about long arms having more muscle mass does not make sense. Both bodies have to make weight, in my case 230 pounds. If longer bones tend to weigh more than short bones, that requires less muscle for the tall person. Simple observations confirm this. The tallest people in the class are not the most massive.
Weight lifting records are dominated by the shorter people not the taller people.
This video is about the general theory of armwrestling relativity. Biomechanics are considered in the special theory of armwrestling relativity. Short arms have the leverage advantage there also.
@@toddhutchings906 "Longer upper arms put more torque in the shoulder and compounds the disadvantage, it does not cancel it."
->
So if two people get stuck into a hook, and the other person tries to pin you with sidepressure (to keep things simple), he uses his bodyweight and his trunk muscles to do so.
So your argument is the guy on the receifing end, gets more torc/twist to resist in his shoulder when his upper arm is longer?
In my opinion the main mechanics here is just a torc transfer to the shoulder mechanicly through the bone. Bone lenght doesn't matter. Assuming the bone doesn't break of course.
Again same situation but now let's focus on the guy how tries to pin. He doesn't us concentric inside rotation from the shoulder muscle. Most of the time these are like you arm used more in a static facion. What you use more so, is your bodyweight and strenght of you torso to apply through your upper arm through you ellbow and hand. Let's assume you ellbow angle and handposition doesn't get changed, than you can apply more pressure with a longer upper arm on you opponants hand than with a shorter.
Don't you agree with that?
A good example of this mechanics and the use of the power of the upper arm as a lever, was the match between Devon Larratt vs Denis Cyplenkov. Of course I mean the right hand match which Devon won.
"Your argument about long arms having more muscle mass does not make sense. Both bodies have to make weight, in my case 230 pounds."
Well of couse that is true. But I mean with a longer frame you can put on more muscles potentially.
You talk about the tall naturally thin guy. This is a physiological argument which is also true but gets seriously chalenged with the use of steroids and other substances. Which is a reality in todays armwrestling...
"If longer bones tend to weigh more than short bones, that requires less muscle for the tall person. Simple observations confirm this. The tallest people in the class are not the most massive."
That's a strange argument somehow, and your logic is flawed imo. Bigger heavier bodies (with longer levers) would rather require more strenght to carry the body weight than shorter one with lighter bones. The reason these tall people usually are skinny is an optical effect + that they often acutally carry less weigh per height. It's a fact that taller people have lower BMIs than short ones. But the reason is not that they have to use less muscle because of their longer and heavier bones, but the reasons are physiolocial. Your heart doesn't grow proportionally with body height. You heart doesn't want to supply so much mass. That's why big people die earlier. Also your testicles are not proportinally bigger with height, this means also not proportionally more testosteron (which is a major factor of how much muscle mass you can carry).
"Weight lifting records are dominated by the shorter people not the taller people. "
Yes within the weight class. But not if we put weight classes aside. Than a certain height becomes a requirement, to reach absolut strenght peaks. The Georgian guy with the over all world record is also 6.4....
@@GangdamStyle20
You are the one that said weight classes made sense.
In my experience the different in strength between arm wrestling weight classes is not not proportionate to body weight.
As a middle weight I have competed in super heavy weight classes
You keep bringing up body mechanics. This must be a specialty of yours. Do a basic static or kinematic analysis first. Torque equals force time distance.
Elbow torque depends on the ligament attachment ratios. And if we are talking about side pressure force production it’s the ratio of arm length multipled by humeral head girth. Longer arms generally have larger humeral heads so longer arms aren’t necessarily at a mechanical disadvantage. But they have reach advantage as you say and hold more muscle. It’s why it’s so rare to see shorter guys in the heavier classes despite how large the genetic pool for people with average height is
I am not sure what point you are trying to make. A longer forearm applies more torque to the elbow at the same force applied to the hand.
Taller people also tend to have longer upper arms, so their shoulders ( and humeral head) is also under higher torque.
The longer arm is a mechanical disadvantage. Please make a video or provide analysis otherwise. I would love to see it
@@toddhutchings906 Thanks for replying! It’s not entirely related to your video as your video was primarily technical analysis. I’m making a comment how people assume longer arms have worse force production. For example, some people see taller guys do their back pressure lifts and say it’s even more impressive because their arm is long. But you can’t actually tell someone’s lever efficient based on external lengths. You’d have to MRI them to actually see where their elbow flexors attached compared to their forearm length.
As the skeleton gets larger our tendon attachments distances scale with overall bone length. Insertion points also vary between individuals. MRI of climbers have found some peoples fingers had the their tendon attachments twice as far from the joint as other climbers. If the above concept makes sense then I can explain what I meant by side pressure mechanical advantage vs disadvantage.
I also planned on making a short instagram video but ive been too lazy.
@@adamfalzarano383 +@todd You both have good arguments. The reality of sidepressure which is created on the table can be very complex imo. Sidepressure created with the musclular internal rotarors of the humerus (pec,lat, subscabularis, teres major, anterior delts) or the kiping othe the body sideways. Imo the most sidepressure comes from kiping and that's why I see the upper arm as an attacking lever which should be as long as possible. A good exampel of the usage of this mechanism used to be Andry Pushkar...
As a longer arm puller, I have to agree with your opinion, totally agree.
@@jamesw1698 Get you armwrestling fundamentals strong, get used to certain style, than you should be able to use your long upper arm as an advantage. Without hand control this is not possible...
Uncle Todd was actually the best armwrestling technician this whole time not ongarbaev 😂
😉
Do you also attack with side pressure against an opponent with short arms like Yoshi?
I will probably attack back pressure like Ron should have
@@toddhutchings906 I’m looking forward to the match between the two. I hope they do their best without getting injured. Wishing them good luck.
@@toddhutchings906 Hmm, I wonder what is going to happen. Yoshi seems to be a strong guy which is not totally predictable. Didn't he beat John one time with a kind of knuckes high toproll which was also ending up in a open toproll almost kingsmove...??? Good luck to you
@@GangdamStyle20
Kings move don’t scare me 😉
💪
Cool stuff Todd! 😎👌🙌
Like if vitaly comes forward and hits up, you can't do anything as a 6 foot guy, you are fighting a large wrench
Only if he can generate enough force. Vitaly also starts from a more open, and disadvantageous position.
Just pull backwards as he comes forward
@@Pepe-pq3om if you pull backwards, you will lose your wrist. Watch devon matches
@@eutiger4789 Not if the opponent is shooting forwards
@@Pepe-pq3om devon is shooting forward, and then people pull back against that and all of them lose wrist, you need equal webbing with tall puller otherwise you will pull underneath them. Ermes exploited vitaly not pulling very well and shoot forward like crazy and kept his wrist
I’d take the long arm, just because of the height, especially if the referee is not doing his job and making tall guy back his elbow up… match come to mind is Devon and Jon at king of the table.
John should not have allowed that, but he is a sweetheart. Devon should not have taken it.
That is the difference between seeking Excellence or seeking Victory.
@@toddhutchings906 Well said
Expert analysis, unlike some of he fruitcakes out there. Thank you sir
For pulling guys with longer arms. Toproll vs toproll. I always feel more pressure on my wrist when the guy got longer arms. Shorter arms toproller need to have wrist of iron. Ermes and Bresnan are good exemple.
Best combo IMO is a hooker with a longer arms like Jordan Tsonev. Its almost impossible to toproll these guy
Great video so far, do you think sumo armwrestling would be a more equitable means of addressing limb length disparities? Elbow fouls slow things down in my opinion, at first blush sumo seems to make for a faster and more exciting format.
I don’t think limb length disparities needs to be addressed. I am almost always the shortest guy in the class with the shortest arms.
Yoshi did fine here.
"OK. We don't care about that" 😂
Hi Todd, great stuff thanks for this, learned a lot. I enjoy the sport of arm-wrestling very much and watch most matched, thus I am up to date. Please make more videos as such, want to learn from the Pro :). Whish you the best for your up and coming match, bring home that trophy! God bless.
Thank you for making this video. I have been saying this for years. Physics does not seem to come naturally to many armwrestlers.
Strap on, just sounds kind of gay....haha....great info Todd!
That speaks volumes about your mental immaturity and ignorance.
Ah the old age question. “Does size matter?” the answer is “yes and no”
I understand this 🐌
I have a theory that you're pulling Yoshi only because you're Toddzilla and he's from Japan 🤔 the guy has been injured and then retired for many years. How could he be in top shape like you?
Yoshi asked for some one ranked above me. He was unavailable. I am Yoshi’s 2nd or 3 rd choice.
The real question that matters in the long/short arm debate is: is it true that it's easier for short armed people to bench press the same amount of weight as a long armed person? 😂
Potentially yes
Talker puller doesn't always have longer arm than someone shorter
Of course not.
This is a video about the general theory of arm wrestling relativity. Not the special theory of arm wrestling relativity.
@@toddhutchings906 🤔
@@rickgrebenikpuggles56 Just interpret it as "Short arm vs long arm"
Hey Todd, Bob brown made a video a few years back talking about a similar topic (long arm vs short arm) and what Bob says (I’m summarizing here) is that it’s true that the short arm has a leverage advantage through the elbow joint , however, it does not have the leverage advantage through the wrist joint. Due to the range the longer arm has, you have more ability to generate backpressure. So in other words, once the short arm gets into a hook, he has a better leverage advantage. But if the wrist of the short arm guy goes back, then the leverage advantage switched to the long arm.
Of course this goes against the example you give here with Ron vs Yoshi. Is this a case by case scenario? What makes you disagree with Bob? Just curious.
I am not sure what is being described here. A longer fore arm puts more torque on the elbow for the same backpressure.
Curling your wrist brings the force closer to your elbow and reduces elbow torque.
The strap, when used to apply force from below the wrist joint also allow a higher level of force to be developed for the same amount of elbow torque. Everybody’s back pressure should he higher in the strap compared to without.
Longer arms, even better, larger hands have advantages. It is just not leverage. A minor point to be sure, but we should all agree on the nomenclature.
@@toddhutchings906 I see, thank you
Do your arms straighten, Toddzilla?
More or less, like all of us
@@toddhutchings906 Dude my ellbows are starting to make loud cracking sounds, that worries my a little bit...
@@GangdamStyle20 Happens to all of us after enough birthdays.
@@toddhutchings906 😅😂🥲🤣 Ok
I am trying with gelatine + animal flex joint complex, even dough I hate supplements....
i was waiting for this
So basically do way more back pressure lifts if you have longer arms.
And you mean posting back pressure not just pulling back pressure right?
@@A_Mystery_Man well yes naturally but both couldn’t hurt.
More back pressure is never a bad thing for sure
@@devonspancakes9602 I guess the reason I say a little bit of posting back pressure is because if you have a long arm, assuming you drag your elbow to the back of the pad, you still could be on your opponent's side of the table if you don't have hammer curl height.
That was awesome uncle Todd thank you for showing us that hope you have a wonderful day
Are you mechanical engineer mr Todd?
Yes.
*We love you Uncle Todd !!!*
Greets master todd ❤ from India 🇮🇳
*Uncle Todd !!!*
*I like everything you do, you're my all time favourite Uncle Todd. I look your style, i like your side pressure , i like your dance , i like Aunt Suzz....*
*Moreover that i like your Hairstyle !!!*
Have you ever pull Ron Uncle Todd?
Yes of course, lots.
@@toddhutchings906 never seen it. Would love to
@@PulseoTV Last time was WAL 404. RUclips.
I'm 6'6 with ridiculously long arms but I have small bones/frame unfortunately. Having long arms with small bones probably not a good thing in arm wrestling and that's why I'm just a yuuuuge fan lol
devon doesnt have huge arm for his size, you can definitely leverage that after you build muscle
@@eutiger4789 well Devons bone frame is a lot bigger than mine. In high school I was almost 6'7 and only weighed about 180lbs lol. Tall and very lanky. I'm 44yrs old now and old age shrunk me a inch but I stay around 240lbs these days. I've been as high as 280lbs but just had 0 energy. Long forearm with small bones probably not a good thing with some of these strong thick bones fellers. Just so tough for us taller guys to pack on muscle that's noticeable without the pancakes
Heavy weight training will increase the size and density of your structure
@@toddhutchings906 ahhh I never knew that. I always assumed I was just stuck with it lol. At one point I was blending stuff like peanut butter and protein shakes just trying to gain weight but was so tough to gain it. As I got older it became easy to gain but had no clue how to get the bones thicker.
Hey man im the same way. Im 6'6. Been doing AW for maybe a year and climbing up pretty quick. Just keep at it. The only thing i hate is when i win alot of people will say its because i have the leverage advantage. Even though they have it 😂 also annoying since it takes your efforts away and they blame it on genetics alone. Anyway. For me. I prefer outside and defensive pulling for my arms. I can keep people in a match forever and they get burnt out. But when it comes to finishing people off. It takes a little more effort for me
👍
If only we had another East Asian vs North American, Short arm vs Long arm match coming up? Hmmmmm. Queue: Korean Hulk (Je-yong Ha) VS Auden Larratt. 💪👊
Ron and Yoshi are both experienced world champion pullers.
Analysis of beginner matches is not so straight forward.
@@toddhutchings906 True, still will be quite interesting. Hope it's a good match
Uncle Todd......how to play against someone with much larger hands and finger length
Ref grip, straps, major back pressure, turn your palm slighty towards him.
@@toddhutchings906 ❤️
@@toddhutchings906turning the palm towards him means supination or pronation?
@@Pepe-pq3om pronation
@@toddhutchings906 And that would be to get more depth in the set up (cover more of his hand)?
Todd needs to call out Neil Pickup on this topic. Neil has no idea what he is talking about on the topic of leverage.
Huh..?
What does Neil say?
@@SabinBabblatchu Neil thinks that a longer arm is an advantage in terms of “leeeeeverage”
@@SabinBabblatchu In reality, from a physics perspective, a huge hand (like Levan’s) combined with a short arm (like Todd’s or Sasho’s) would provide maximal advantage in armwrestling.
@@user-hn9qw7ou8d its a bit more complicated than that. A shorter arm has no ability to climb. You have to rely on a good setup and being SUPER strong in containment. I get why you would think that, but theres more than one lever and fulcrum in arm wrestling. When someones wrist has the ability to match the opponents meta-carpal height, the short arm needs to be much stronger to win.
I think Yoshi will be one of your toughest match ups to be honest
Is this match the first in Yoshi's comeback? Has he been activeIf it's the first I can't see him beating Todd
@Pepe-pq3om hes been training in Japan. And his style fits good with todd
Arriba el todzilla
that table is like a boat:)
*Toddzilla's side-pressure will massacre Yoshi kanai !!!*
Hello Zilla 💪♥️🦊🎱 #WCFYP
RUclips algorithm boosting comment 💪 ... engineering and physics of AW 🤓 there's definitely plusses and minuses to a long arm, and the short arm. seems pretty simple to me.
I believe the sport needs to change the rules and categories!! Should be height, arm length and hand size categories!! Not weight,
Weight generally filters for those things. If you want to be in a smaller handed class, lose weight. I kinda like that about the sport. The hand sizes kinda show you what weight you should be at.
@@A_Mystery_Man good thought
Good luck with that. Over half of us believe the buckle is a disadvantage and the fairer strap is effective.
*Devon Larratt has left the chat
😂
Devon Larratt alone is probably responsable of at least 50% of the misinformation and myths that are going around
Come on now, this isn't the WWE🤣, Let's not have preposterous height exaggerations, Ron Bath is only 6'2, not a whopping 6'4.
You fuckers crack me up.
I have seen him listed at 6’3” at Golds Arm and WAL website. I have seen him listed at 6’4” on the stats image at WAL and EvW videos. I have never seen him listed as 6’2”. Just calm down.
@@toddhutchings906 While you're cracking up, look at his stats on his most RECENT King Of The Table match with Matt Mask😉 Of course I can simply tell by using my eyes.
@@snsdkbopper7819Ron Bath is getting older, so ofc that now he will be an inch or a couple shorter than before.
exactly what I thought, shorter arms have better leverage, which makes sense but people just keep repeating that longer arms have more leverage
this has to be a black mark on Bath's legacy, very one dimensional
I didn't finish watching but I'm gonna say short arms are better
whatever advice Michael Todd was giving him , he never followed it, wtf didn't he pull more back so that Yoshi wouldn't be so tight. Means he was just weaker. toproll and what?
Bath disappointing in this, but who knows maybe he had a bad day. I love Japanese technology too, but in any strength sport Japanese men shouldn't have a chance with americans. I mean they are originally north chinese for gods sake.