Karl, I have read articles regarding your trial. You are extremely brave to stand up to Mr. Mitchell in Australian court, and I respect the commitment you have invested in trying to seek justice from someone who utilizes a legal system any time they feel butt hurt from what others say. While anything can happen in court, I do wish you and your family the best. Regardless what happens, I know you will persevere, and I hope your defense holds!
@@quidquopro1185Australian defamation law is pretty strong, American defamation law is a lot more lax on things like the truth defence. Having said that I doubt Karl will lose, but you never know - all legal cases can go off the rails.
If Karl wins, he'll be designated as defendant of the century, and will also strip Billy's gamer of the century award and take it for his own. Karl Jobst, defendant of the Century and Gamer of the Century
"Your honour, may I be excused from the court? There's a new speedrunning strategy in Golden Eye I have to report on." Those photos of Karl were the best bit of advertising I've seen for a product.
Dude is literally earning money with photos going to trial against Billy. Absolute legend! I hope Billy will lose so hard, that he will be forced to start to admit everything.
It will definitely be hard for Silly Bitchell to do, considering that I’m convinced that the dude is a legitimate narcissist. Still be so satisfying to watch though.
Even if Billy is self-aware of his lies I genuinely think he'd rather go to prison and leave the smallest nugget of doubt that he might have been in the right, than admit and remove all doubt
@@norwegianboyee idk about that. These kinds of people do seem to value self preservation above all else so if it comes down to serious prison time I do believe he'd say anything to avoid it.
HOLY CRAP! Me and my friends knew about this back in ~2001! We played an absolute insane amount of MP and we realized it was bad to spam mines because you were never guaranteed to hit them with the explosion you wanted. We knew spam mining was a gamble and so we got VERY good at "nading the mines", basically using them like grenades. It's so amusing to know there are probably countless people like us out there who know one little weird trick that would revolutionize a particular speedrun, but will never know it lol.
Reminds me of the time I found the Chris hulahan room in zelda link to the past and my brothers and I had no idea what it was at the time. Then i read about it years later on the web.
yeah, it's crazy to me that speedrunners just figured this out. this was definitely something i was aware of in multiplayer, i just wouldn't have made the connection to it being useful in speedrunning.
@@SaltyChip It’s because the mechanics of video game mines are way more interesting than biology is. My AuDHD can hyper focus on this stuff all day but I won’t be able to pay attention for more than five minutes in college chemistry class. (To be honest, I actually failed Chemistry but because I did well in the lab, my grade averaged out to a C. I still remember initially freaking out when I first saw my mid semester grades until my advisor told me that the final grade will take the lab into account. I still dropped out of college because I suck at math.)
@@elisabethheiman2104its all about presentation chemistry, biology, and so on can also be interesting when presenting it right i think when someone present me biology like Karl with video games it would be great and interesting
@@elisabethheiman2104 The answer is actually simple and not as complex as you make it sound. The reason we watch Karl is because of his passion. Same as when you listen to a professor who loves what he does. It's all about charisma
It's always nice to see a video of your OG game, GoldenEye. After all, it's the whole reason I started following you so many years ago. Man, time flies by far too fast.
@Kelly-f7r - Somebody is having a bad day. You're taking things far too literally. I meant that it's one of the first games he covered. He has been speedrunning GoldenEye years longer than was covering speedrunning as a whole.
Yup! I'm not even a programmer but they still make complete sense within context. I wonder which of the dropped mines would take prio. I assume the rule of which one was first would.
@@oz_jones Yeah, I assume in a game that old, it would still attach to which ever one was on the "first" surface. That's just my gut feeling with how games from that era played, though. It would make sense that way logically, but there are a couple possibilities given what games back then could handle.
@@oz_jones Hard to say without knowing how it was actually implemented, but given the rules seem to be if it's attached to an object then it becomes a child of the object and is injected at the front of the list of the object's children (last in first out) and if it isn't attached to an object then it's a child of the scene in creation order (first in first out), my assumption is the last attached object will be processed first by the object being destroyed and become a child of the scene first and so would take priority.
Yep, the main decision would be, "How much time do I want to spend on optimizing physics that will potentially slow the game down and no one will ever notice anyway?" Then speedrunning came along and the code is getting a body cavity search.
I've heard reports that it has the texture of cardboard and tastes like it, too. Plus, as another comment said, the boxes are tiny. If you think name brand, non family-sized boxes are small, you're in for a surprise with how small these boxes are.
I'm shocked that part of this is a new discovery. Having played a TON of Goldeneye multiplayer back in the day, it was common knowledge among my friend group to only plant one mine in an area otherwise you don't get full damage. We also knew that the first mine took priority. Anyone who goofed off using the cheat codes in missions would've quickly discovered this (we would see how many mines we could stack in one area). There was no understanding of "why", we just knew that way worked to kill each other the fastest in MP. We definitely did NOT know about the difference between terrain and object mine placement though. That could've been useful!
I've watched alot of your videos of this kind and especially a lot of this game and it absolutely baffles me, that nobody ever noticed this. This game was optimised like crazy over decades and still nobody ever realised how the mines work. Speedrunning is magical.
most of us would hate it. but Karl looks like a movie star and like someone whom the cameras love. and he is the one with the facts and the truth on his side. this confidence boosts him even more. can´t wait for the video about the verdict.
@@t.kersten7695 If this trial were about Billy cheating... It should be pretty open and shut. Part of the trial is because Karl said Billy was responsible for Apollo Legend's death.
as a programmer, the way its implemented actually makes complete sense to me. as soon as you said that only 1 thing can damage you at a time, I immediately knew that there would be deterministic system that chooses which damage to apply. it being the first mine that was thrown makes perfect sense, since all the mines would be written into a list and then executed in order. as for which mine deals damage after breaking the glass, I think it is whichever mine hit the glass last. my reasoning: there is a global list of mines that handles all mines that are in the air or on the environment. then there are separate lists of mines for each object. since we know that for objects the mines are processed in reverse order, this should also be true for the detachment logic. so the second mine that was thrown onto the glass "enters" the air first, which puts it into the global list of mines. the mine that hit the glass first will be handled second, so it will end up at the end of the list. since the global list starts processing from the front, the mine that is earlier in the list will deal the damage. which is the mine that hit the glass second.
That was my assumption as well. Though I've seen another comment that made sense and results in the same end result. Basically the idea being that the mines on the object are in a list and that entire list is moved as a single piece as that is simply a matter of removing the pointer to the list on the object and adding a pointer to it on the main list of objects.
@@AkhierDragonheart it seems more like a list of all game objects is in a tree, if the mines are on the root node then they get appended to the end of the child list, and if it hits something else it is appended to the end of that things child list. walking the tree from bottom to top searching for mines to detonate would yield the results seen
@@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683 but if the mine is attached to the object, it's the last one, that gets evaluated first The way Karl describes, is simply one big list for objects, where new objects gets added at the end of the list while each object can have their own list objects (childs) where new entries get added on the front. This is also the only thing I don't think makes much sense in programmer logic. (Why doing the adding differently when it's not speficially necessary) Also the only thing I would disagree Armageddon2k is that I didn't hear anything about seperate object list for just mines but other than that, it's spot on imo
@@unauffaellige_person Karl is not a programmer, my guy. If you're using him as your source for programming knowledge, you've already lost the argument. He's a speed runner talking about speed runner things who occasionally attempts to summarize complex topics that people study for years to better explain a speed runner thing in a ~20 minute entertainment video. I'm not even a programmer and I can tell that you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@unauffaellige_person N64 comparison is faster with 0 than a variable so they probably loop object children backwards but the main list is a linked list of objects would be my guess
It depends on the game and category TBH. There were some records broken by a second in longer speedruns and the runners were unsatisfied by saving only this little. It's a huge save in a game this optimized and short though.
@@yamiji3380 relativity! in round where 20 seconds is enough to complete 1 second is a lot. when games take hours or more a second isn't much. minutes become the goal. when speeding around the world it used to be days and now it's measured by hours.
I mean, anyone who understands any activity involving time and speed knows that shaving seconds off the fastest is a big deal. You can probably show this to a racing, running or swimming fan and they would understand
Wrong. You watch it asap as it uploaded. While a sleep you let it play endlessly so karl can hack your brain mainframe and install an anti billy mitchell When you wake up, fap, shower and rewatch the video. You did the karl ritual and now no billy mitchell can harm you for 48hr
There is a logic, but the logic is not logical (the game always behaves the same way, but the rules are so unintuitive that it looks like there is no predefined behavior)
Language is iffy at best. Logical could mean intuitive. Or it could mean "rule based". The same way "Theory" might mean "a guess", "a scientific framework explanation for a set of observed facts" or "a planned course of action", depending on context. Here we just have something based on rules, where the rules aren't intuitive.
It makes sense if you read the code, but it's definitely weird and inconsistent from the user side. Especially the fact that mines are added to the world in a newest-last order, but attached to objects in a newest-first order.
The rules follow an internal logic, but that logic is disconnected from the logic of the real world. So they are both logical in a sense and illogical in a sense.
Billy would never understand. 😂 Billy looks like he ran face first into a brick wall 50 times then tried to trick the world into thinking he was some kind of champion speedrunner. His logic plays out about the same. (I hate making fun of peoples' appearances because I find it to be extremely low-hanging fruit, bit I can't resist with that degenerate.)
I thought you would just use two mines and get hurt by the furthest one so you'd get i-frames, but I assumed there was a reason something so simple wasn't used. I'm glad there was an explanation.
As a video game programmer, this sort of stuff happens all the time. The order of execution causes biases, and you have to account for them or accept it or design your game around it.
I know hardly anything about speedrunning, other than going as fast as possible and/or finding the best glitches, so I love these videos explaining them. Thank you!
I love that the highest level of speedrunning is all about programming and how the code was originally written. Even the nuance between a stack and a list comes into play! Great finding and great video!
15:30 judging by what we've done in Unreal (1998) I'd imagine it depends on which mine hits the ground first, as this sounds like it's almost a different object type when in motion/thrown (projectile class) but switched to a static class once attached. Could be wrong tho! I admittedly know next to nothing about Golden Eye's engine here. Super fascinating regardless, I love this kinda stuff.
This was my thinking too, but if one falls onto another object, and one falls onto the terrain, then I'd be curious which does the damage. I'd assume it's still whichever landed first
I dunno. His verbiage sounded like it's an object until it attaches to an object. I don't think it only becomes an object when it attaches to terrain. In which case, when the glass is destroyed, the most recent object would become independent first, and thus gain priority. 🤷🏻
@@TheRussell747if one lands on the ground, and one falls on a box, the child of the box is higher up in the code than the individual on the the floor. Imho.
I don't comment a lot but Karl is a fucking legend. All of this shit he's going through and he continues to put out quality content. Awesome stuff man, I hope all goes well.
Its nice when creators put some thought into their ads. Made me watch instead of skip, and honestly seems like a product I'd like. I appreciate creators promoting things they actually use, or things they think their audience would find useful. I also try to be healthy, and finding good low calorie no sugar substitutes for "bad" food that still taste good is valuable to me. I'll give these a try. Have to rant about sugar for a sec too - Sugar legitimately is the biggest problem in both the US and UK, ahead of drugs, alcohol, violence, etc. It is so detrimental for your health. Hard for younger people to see but once you cross 30 you feel everything you put into your body more, like 10X more. Sugar is devastating and dangerous in excess. Type 2 diabetes is no joke. Not saying ban it, freedom of choice is always preferred, just that its done in moderation and taken as seriously as it should be!
15:30 - Here's my guess on mines on objects that get destroyed. Those mines are added back to the world as if you had thrown them (in reverse order). They would then attach to the terrain in the order that they hit the terrain (the one that falls a shorter distance attachs first) with the understanding that they're processed in that reverse order, so if they hit the ground during the same frame, the last mine thrown is the first mine to hit the floor and becomes the "first" mine (and its then the first mine you threw originally that damages you).
You don't usually see media photos of people leaving court looking so good. 👍 And I don't think anybody else could make a video about how a game orders the priority of remote mines so interesting.
This was a very welcome addition and surprise, especially as I am a massive fan of GoldenEye and speedrunning. I wish you all the very best in your trial and no doubt you have truly amazing lawyers. I am just a little bit worried, as apparently Billy has amazing lawyers too and a couple of review videos stated that there were some very positive moments for him and that things weren’t looking good for you. Let's hope that doesn't materialise into the final outcome. It would also be great to see you win in the ring against him, as per the animated sections in some of your previous videos.
The fact Magic Spoon allowed his code to be LEGEND is actually awesome. I really hope the sponsor money helps with taking care of his family while he's dealing with this trial.
You have a unique voice that.I have grown to love. I also love any Goldeneye (64) videos. It is pretty much the only game I play these days since it's the perfect video game in my eyes. Even if trying to climb the ladder on the Aztec level pisses me off to no end, I still have a great time overall.
As a game developer myself, and having learned how the code functions for mines and objects/floors, it'll be the mine that hits the ground first that the game will use. This is because of how mines and the floor work, since the first mine that's attached to the wall or floor when thrown from the player is the one it prioritizes, that means that the mine that first hits the ground will be counted as the first mine thrown and thus be the one prioritized.
This is also what I thought, but then at 16:10 Karl said “because the mine is still in the air and hasn’t hit anything yet, it’s still considered to be in the terrain” which assuming he’s right, means that mines attaching to terrain is irrelevant. There’s still 2 possible answers in my mind though 1) The mines remember the order in which they were originally created, and mine 1 will take priority over mine 2 2) The mines are destroyed and recreated, and whichever mine is recreated first will take priority. In this instance, I believe that would be mine 2 due to how multiple mines on the same object are ordered
Karl is a "celebrity" for a while now (media). Thank God he's still low key like he used to be. Thanks for all the great content you create bro! I'm following you for about 10 years now and hopefully there will be another 10 years at least.
How this wasn't found 25 years ago is the actual mystery, i have done similar things in other games to glitch through walls, or kill enemies in 1 shot without killing myself, or negate fall damage. I'm not a pro speedrunner of any sorts, i just like challenge runs and use exploits to obtain things i shouldn't be able to get. Basically, at the 5:20 mark i knew exactly what was about to happen, sure i didn't know about the order of explosions on terrain vs glass, but that's pretty easy to figure out.
It sounds like when placed on an object, the children are probably a linked list if new are inserted first, so when destroyed it would be iterated over in the same order (LIFO), and added onto the global list (FIFO) which results in the last one added still going off.
Hey Karl, There's no rush to compile a video together concerning the trial. Many of us overlook the fact that issues we have accumulated over time also may require the equivalent to come to terms with them. I appreciate you, Take care!
I was with you throughout all of that. As you narrowed down the scope, In my head I would single out something and focus on something else. When it came to the theory of the mines, absolutely, the fact that the first one that you place is the one that damages you is not something I expected. Thats what blew my mind. Also, I didn't even know the game actually made it so the mines detached from objects and fell onto terrain to be used again. Damn, details in games sometimes.
No one person has done more to defame Billy Mitchell than Billy himself. His inability to understand how electronics works results in him attempting to gaslight everyone that actually understands it. Electricity isn't magic, it doesn't have a mind of its own, and it can't violate the laws of physics in a way that solely benefits him.
You ate a SPONSOR? Bro, you're supposed to eat the sponsor's product! You can't even get your money now, you ATE THEM! YOU MONSTER!!! This is as bad as that "UberEats driver" incident.. That poor driver.. He didn't stand a chance..
As a programmer, I found that whole "which mine will damage you" section to be interesting. Plus, it was delivered in a way where even people with no programming background can understand. Amazing job.
Completely unburdened by in-depth knowledge of goldeneye code I think that if you shatter glass that has mines, that the first mine hitting the floor counts as first placed.
I feel like it would in newer games with more complex coding for object tracking and whatnot. In an older game like that, I think it would be more likely to attach meaning to whichever mine hit the object to render first out of the two. I'd really like to know, lol.
Wouldn't be too sure about that. A falling mine is already part of the global object list, just like a mine on terrain. Unless the mine is removed from the list and then added back when it lands, instead of its position simply being updated, it would still be the mine that was placed last.
@@hellterminator Yeah, I guess this actually depends on how the game handles a "moving" mine - Is it the same entity the whole time, or are "moving physics object mine" and "placed mine that can be detonated" two different entities that get swapped out as needed? Edit: Considering the explanation at 16:10, Seems like the former is the case. I.e., it's always the same mine object, it gets added to the end of the object list normally, and if it hits an object it gets moved to become a child of that object. And, notably, when a mine object is moved to become a child of another object, the game no longer cares about which order it was loaded/spawned into the game, since that list is built on the basis of "most recent attachment first". I _assume_ that when an object gets destroyed, the mines on it are "read"/handled in the order that they exist in the "child object" list, and then moved to the end of the list of all objects in that same order. So, with that in mind, my guess is that the last (as in newest/most recent) mine attached to the destroyed object would be the first to detonate/deal damage, since it will now be the first mine object in the list of all objects - assuming that all mines land on the floor or stay in the air (and assuming that there aren't any other mines on other objects or on the floor before that). If some/all of the mines land on new objects, then the last mine to land on the object that's highest up in the object list would be first to detonate.
Bro you look like your in the prime of life! I have been following your billy drama this whole time and I’m rooting for you! Thanks for all the great work
Here's what I think goes on with two mines on a destroyed object. When the two mines are placed on the glass pane, they are child objects to the glass pane itself. When the glass pane is destroyed, the game has to let the mines fall on the ground and attach somewhere else. If the glass is destroyed, that means the game can't keep referencing the mines as child objects because the object they were attached to does not exist anymore. I find it likely that the game treats these mines as if they were new mines being thrown by Bond, which means their damage order follows the same rules. If both of them stick to terrain, like they do in the video, the first one to land takes priority. Let me know if I got it right, I don't play GoldenEye. Edit: 11 hours have passed since I wrote this comment, and my opinion has changed. I now think mines retain their original order (second takes priority) when they fall. Read replies for more details.
I like it. The inverse outcome of this would be reasonable too, with the mines keeping their priority because they had already been spawned as objects on an object. But I wouldn't be surprised if the mines just flat out stopped working as intended either
@@trashgang_ the issue is you can detonate mines midair "you have to let the mine detonate midair". And as such it would be a waste of memory to store the mine's data somewhere else while waiting for it to fall onto something. If it falls onto an object the game will check it when it landed there and place the mine into the stack of the object again
This is a logical conclusion. I'm not well-versed in game coding from these games, only gut feelings from playing many of them and being obsessed with messing with mechanics as a kid, lol. I think your idea, the mine attached the first render object being attached to it still and exploding first still, or the mines having bizarre or nulled action after the pane is broken are all logical.
*sigh* again with the sponsor that doesn't actually ship to the country he is from. It's a shame really since I kind of want to try it but don't want to have to go through bs just to get it sent to me.
Damn Karl. I've been watching you since at LEAST 2017. Youre looking amazing rn, keep it up man. Goodluck with your trial as well. No matter what happens us legends stand by you!
This knowledge has even further practical applications in death match! Knowing how the damage is calculated for the explosions would give you a huge advantage.
15:20 indie game dev here, and my guess is that they keep the same priority as when they were on the glass, since the moment the glass breaks, they are considered "terrain" mines, so it doesn't matter which hits the ground first. It'd probably remove the child (bomb) of the object and place them into the terrain one-by-one the frame the glass is broken
![[SS14] Artifacts create increasingly worse monsters (Full round)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aUU6xM-wOZQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I will let you know when there is an update on the ongoing trial. Until then, thanks for the support
Yoo
absolute legend
You’ll always have our support!!
Looking forward to the update. Hopefully Billy Mitchel will be changed to Billed for Legal Fees
For anyone wondering, some people posted detailed blogs about the ongoing trail that you can look up.
Karl, I have read articles regarding your trial. You are extremely brave to stand up to Mr. Mitchell in Australian court, and I respect the commitment you have invested in trying to seek justice from someone who utilizes a legal system any time they feel butt hurt from what others say. While anything can happen in court, I do wish you and your family the best. Regardless what happens, I know you will persevere, and I hope your defense holds!
What have happened? Is there even a possibility that he will loose?
@@quidquopro1185Australian defamation law is pretty strong, American defamation law is a lot more lax on things like the truth defence.
Having said that I doubt Karl will lose, but you never know - all legal cases can go off the rails.
If Karl wins, he'll be designated as defendant of the century, and will also strip Billy's gamer of the century award and take it for his own.
Karl Jobst, defendant of the Century and Gamer of the Century
@@thomasnguyen5295 The Absolute Legend
@outcastwayne what are you basing that off of?
"Your honour, may I be excused from the court? There's a new speedrunning strategy in Golden Eye I have to report on."
Those photos of Karl were the best bit of advertising I've seen for a product.
It would have worked better for the skincare one though
@@meneldal Nah, diet is a big part of looksmaxing.
What photos?
@@o7_AP First few seconds of the ad.
True, but eating cereal doesn't make you buff
No fucking way you used Billy Mitchel's trial for your Magic Spoon add 😂😂😂
Billy would.
Amazing.
@@knghtbrdwould that make Magic Spoon the “Cereal of the Century”?
It was Billy’s idea. He did it. Karl stole it and lied about… uhh… I dunno. It’s hard to think like Billy.
And how slick he did it, fantastic
Dude is literally earning money with photos going to trial against Billy. Absolute legend! I hope Billy will lose so hard, that he will be forced to start to admit everything.
It will definitely be hard for Silly Bitchell to do, considering that I’m convinced that the dude is a legitimate narcissist. Still be so satisfying to watch though.
Never miss an opportunity to make the most of the situation. Brilliant way to segway into the ad.
Even if Billy is self-aware of his lies I genuinely think he'd rather go to prison and leave the smallest nugget of doubt that he might have been in the right, than admit and remove all doubt
@@elisabethheiman2104 He's got such an tremendous ego that he would rather die in prison of old age than to ever admit he lied.
@@norwegianboyee idk about that. These kinds of people do seem to value self preservation above all else so if it comes down to serious prison time I do believe he'd say anything to avoid it.
HOLY CRAP! Me and my friends knew about this back in ~2001! We played an absolute insane amount of MP and we realized it was bad to spam mines because you were never guaranteed to hit them with the explosion you wanted. We knew spam mining was a gamble and so we got VERY good at "nading the mines", basically using them like grenades.
It's so amusing to know there are probably countless people like us out there who know one little weird trick that would revolutionize a particular speedrun, but will never know it lol.
Reminds me of the time I found the Chris hulahan room in zelda link to the past and my brothers and I had no idea what it was at the time. Then i read about it years later on the web.
Same boat. Remember messing around with mines for hours in multiplayer and setting up traps based off of this concept.
yeah, it's crazy to me that speedrunners just figured this out. this was definitely something i was aware of in multiplayer, i just wouldn't have made the connection to it being useful in speedrunning.
Now a days something like this would be updated or patched in the game
Kinda messed up i can pay attention to “throwing and dropping mines 101” instead of biology all day long.
@@SaltyChip It’s because the mechanics of video game mines are way more interesting than biology is. My AuDHD can hyper focus on this stuff all day but I won’t be able to pay attention for more than five minutes in college chemistry class. (To be honest, I actually failed Chemistry but because I did well in the lab, my grade averaged out to a C. I still remember initially freaking out when I first saw my mid semester grades until my advisor told me that the final grade will take the lab into account. I still dropped out of college because I suck at math.)
@@elisabethheiman2104its all about presentation chemistry, biology, and so on can also be interesting when presenting it right i think when someone present me biology like Karl with video games it would be great and interesting
@@elisabethheiman2104 The answer is actually simple and not as complex as you make it sound.
The reason we watch Karl is because of his passion. Same as when you listen to a professor who loves what he does. It's all about charisma
I didn't have this problem when I was in school.
That's a teacher skill issue.
It's always nice to see a video of your OG game, GoldenEye. After all, it's the whole reason I started following you so many years ago. Man, time flies by far too fast.
Stfu its our game , not his
@Kelly-f7r - Somebody is having a bad day. You're taking things far too literally. I meant that it's one of the first games he covered. He has been speedrunning GoldenEye years longer than was covering speedrunning as a whole.
tell a joke >:(
Same here. This game was so cool when it came out.
@@_WeDontKnow_ Look, we wouldn't know a good joke, even if it hit us both right in the face.
Me: hoping for a trial update
Karl: DAMN I LOOK GOOD 😎
Me: Ok
I mean to be fair....he kinda does.
@@Venters I don't disagree :) Just wasn't the Courthouse news I expected 😄
@@Venters GAY
Tbf, some trial not allowed to shown for public view. Karl still respect the rule, unlike Billy
As a programmer, these explosion rules make perfect sense to me.
Yup! I'm not even a programmer but they still make complete sense within context. I wonder which of the dropped mines would take prio. I assume the rule of which one was first would.
@@oz_jones
Yeah, I assume in a game that old, it would still attach to which ever one was on the "first" surface. That's just my gut feeling with how games from that era played, though. It would make sense that way logically, but there are a couple possibilities given what games back then could handle.
@@oz_jones Hard to say without knowing how it was actually implemented, but given the rules seem to be if it's attached to an object then it becomes a child of the object and is injected at the front of the list of the object's children (last in first out) and if it isn't attached to an object then it's a child of the scene in creation order (first in first out), my assumption is the last attached object will be processed first by the object being destroyed and become a child of the scene first and so would take priority.
Yep, the main decision would be, "How much time do I want to spend on optimizing physics that will potentially slow the game down and no one will ever notice anyway?" Then speedrunning came along and the code is getting a body cavity search.
As an explosive specialist, these explosion rules make no sense to me.
I'm sure magic spoon is delicious yet I'm not eating $10 boxes of cereal.
It's not a particularly big box either, it would be finished in like two bowls 🤷♂️
According to a video I saw reviewing different RUclips sponsorships, most of it is pretty bad
I've seen two separate, unsponsored reviews and both said it was bad. I wouldn't trust it
B-b-but it's... M A G I C
I've heard reports that it has the texture of cardboard and tastes like it, too. Plus, as another comment said, the boxes are tiny. If you think name brand, non family-sized boxes are small, you're in for a surprise with how small these boxes are.
Damn you do actually look really good in those pictures
Lol
Brody fly as fucc
Great to see another upload, Karl! Hope everything is going well re: the trial
I'm shocked that part of this is a new discovery. Having played a TON of Goldeneye multiplayer back in the day, it was common knowledge among my friend group to only plant one mine in an area otherwise you don't get full damage. We also knew that the first mine took priority. Anyone who goofed off using the cheat codes in missions would've quickly discovered this (we would see how many mines we could stack in one area). There was no understanding of "why", we just knew that way worked to kill each other the fastest in MP. We definitely did NOT know about the difference between terrain and object mine placement though. That could've been useful!
I've watched alot of your videos of this kind and especially a lot of this game and it absolutely baffles me, that nobody ever noticed this. This game was optimised like crazy over decades and still nobody ever realised how the mines work.
Speedrunning is magical.
Another great video mate👍
Best of luck on the trial, you absolute LEGEND!!
Ah dang, I'd hate to have to deal with cameras and paparazzi while going to trial
Keep your head up Jobst and thank you for all the entertainment
most of us would hate it. but Karl looks like a movie star and like someone whom the cameras love. and he is the one with the facts and the truth on his side. this confidence boosts him even more. can´t wait for the video about the verdict.
I bet he wants as many people to know as is possible so I don't think he is shaken by it in the slightest.
@@t.kersten7695 If this trial were about Billy cheating... It should be pretty open and shut. Part of the trial is because Karl said Billy was responsible for Apollo Legend's death.
15:28 Idk why that made me laugh. Gl on the trial, you absolute legend!
Karl you are an absolute legend.
as a programmer, the way its implemented actually makes complete sense to me. as soon as you said that only 1 thing can damage you at a time, I immediately knew that there would be deterministic system that chooses which damage to apply. it being the first mine that was thrown makes perfect sense, since all the mines would be written into a list and then executed in order.
as for which mine deals damage after breaking the glass, I think it is whichever mine hit the glass last. my reasoning: there is a global list of mines that handles all mines that are in the air or on the environment. then there are separate lists of mines for each object. since we know that for objects the mines are processed in reverse order, this should also be true for the detachment logic. so the second mine that was thrown onto the glass "enters" the air first, which puts it into the global list of mines. the mine that hit the glass first will be handled second, so it will end up at the end of the list. since the global list starts processing from the front, the mine that is earlier in the list will deal the damage. which is the mine that hit the glass second.
That was my assumption as well. Though I've seen another comment that made sense and results in the same end result. Basically the idea being that the mines on the object are in a list and that entire list is moved as a single piece as that is simply a matter of removing the pointer to the list on the object and adding a pointer to it on the main list of objects.
@@AkhierDragonheart it seems more like a list of all game objects is in a tree, if the mines are on the root node then they get appended to the end of the child list, and if it hits something else it is appended to the end of that things child list. walking the tree from bottom to top searching for mines to detonate would yield the results seen
@@gwentarinokripperinolkjdsf683 but if the mine is attached to the object, it's the last one, that gets evaluated first
The way Karl describes, is simply one big list for objects, where new objects gets added at the end of the list while each object can have their own list objects (childs) where new entries get added on the front.
This is also the only thing I don't think makes much sense in programmer logic. (Why doing the adding differently when it's not speficially necessary)
Also the only thing I would disagree Armageddon2k is that I didn't hear anything about seperate object list for just mines but other than that, it's spot on imo
@@unauffaellige_person Karl is not a programmer, my guy. If you're using him as your source for programming knowledge, you've already lost the argument. He's a speed runner talking about speed runner things who occasionally attempts to summarize complex topics that people study for years to better explain a speed runner thing in a ~20 minute entertainment video.
I'm not even a programmer and I can tell that you have no idea what you're talking about.
@@unauffaellige_person N64 comparison is faster with 0 than a variable so they probably loop object children backwards but the main list is a linked list of objects would be my guess
Non speedrunning fans: Wow a whole second that's nothing.
Speedrunning fans: Wow a whole second that's incredible.
It depends on the game and category TBH. There were some records broken by a second in longer speedruns and the runners were unsatisfied by saving only this little. It's a huge save in a game this optimized and short though.
@@yamiji3380 relativity! in round where 20 seconds is enough to complete 1 second is a lot. when games take hours or more a second isn't much. minutes become the goal. when speeding around the world it used to be days and now it's measured by hours.
@@TGPDrunknHick 92.9 minutes (in the ISS)
@@Soken50how does one speed run in the International Space Station?
I mean, anyone who understands any activity involving time and speed knows that shaving seconds off the fastest is a big deal. You can probably show this to a racing, running or swimming fan and they would understand
I grew up playing this game. It's awesome to see that it still has secrets. Also I think the mines that fall from glass retain their detonation order.
I CACKLED when you shot Boris during the scene fade out at 15:30 😂
0:54 “allows you to reach the door in 3 seconds, which saves you 3 seconds”
Yes, after telling you it takes 6 seconds to go the other way...
@@CloppyKicks how does your comment help with they joy his sentence brought me? It doesn’t. Let ppl enjoy things 🫶
@@austinbased1976 no
@@austinbased1976 enjoy.... things.... What's that?
1:33 It better not be to throw the mine more to the right
Only clicking those vids because i want to hear Karl calling me a Legend
Understandable. Have a nice day, you legend.
Absolute Legend.
*absolute legends
Bro, you're an absolute legend, never doubt that!
Thank you, everyone of you including Karl are LEGENDS.
2:54 looking sharp Karl! today i will finally start the workout. thanks for the motivation.
Can't wait to watch this when I actually wake up
Yeah I'm glad I woke up today
i ´m watching in my sleep you noob
You are in a coma
Wrong.
You watch it asap as it uploaded.
While a sleep you let it play endlessly so karl can hack your brain mainframe and install an anti billy mitchell
When you wake up, fap, shower and rewatch the video.
You did the karl ritual and now no billy mitchell can harm you for 48hr
Wholesome
wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up wake up
I'm glad Karl still does Goldeneye videos!!
Karl:
Also Karl: "These rules are... certainly not logical"
There is a logic, but the logic is not logical (the game always behaves the same way, but the rules are so unintuitive that it looks like there is no predefined behavior)
Language is iffy at best.
Logical could mean intuitive. Or it could mean "rule based".
The same way "Theory" might mean "a guess", "a scientific framework explanation for a set of observed facts" or "a planned course of action", depending on context.
Here we just have something based on rules, where the rules aren't intuitive.
@@tokeivoGolden eye not being "logical" means that the video game behaviour is far removed from physics commonsense.
It makes sense if you read the code, but it's definitely weird and inconsistent from the user side. Especially the fact that mines are added to the world in a newest-last order, but attached to objects in a newest-first order.
The rules follow an internal logic, but that logic is disconnected from the logic of the real world. So they are both logical in a sense and illogical in a sense.
2:53
Billy: "oh no! He's hot!"
Billy would never understand. 😂
Billy looks like he ran face first into a brick wall 50 times then tried to trick the world into thinking he was some kind of champion speedrunner. His logic plays out about the same.
(I hate making fun of peoples' appearances because I find it to be extremely low-hanging fruit, bit I can't resist with that degenerate.)
I thought you would just use two mines and get hurt by the furthest one so you'd get i-frames, but I assumed there was a reason something so simple wasn't used. I'm glad there was an explanation.
0:58 I’ve been telling my girlfriend that for years
I love this
I listened and can't tell when the comment ends 😂😂😂
Well, she's still with you after all these years, so you're clearly doing something right. But there's one thing you're doing very wrong.
Guard: I'm going to decide to have terrible accuracy. Lol
As a video game programmer, this sort of stuff happens all the time. The order of execution causes biases, and you have to account for them or accept it or design your game around it.
2:56 Ah so that's what the Alchemist does when he isn't cooking up beats, He's Karl's Lawyer lol
Goldeneye Speedrunners: "Strat uses two mines? That's the double mine strat."
Sensible, straightforward, easy.
Portal 2 Speedrunners: "Strat uses two mines? That's Pineapple strat."
Chaotic, reckless, unhinged.
portal 2 speedrun strats are named after members of the community a lot more often as well
I know, I was just memeing about how P2 runners love to name strats after random foods ;)
Coming out with a new video in the middle of your trial is a boss move dude the aura is insane LOL
That sponsor was a massive slap in the face to Billy.
I know hardly anything about speedrunning, other than going as fast as possible and/or finding the best glitches, so I love these videos explaining them. Thank you!
“You’re honor take a look of pictures of Karl flexing on Billy”
Tell me this man is not innocent.
I love that the highest level of speedrunning is all about programming and how the code was originally written. Even the nuance between a stack and a list comes into play! Great finding and great video!
15:30 judging by what we've done in Unreal (1998) I'd imagine it depends on which mine hits the ground first, as this sounds like it's almost a different object type when in motion/thrown (projectile class) but switched to a static class once attached. Could be wrong tho! I admittedly know next to nothing about Golden Eye's engine here. Super fascinating regardless, I love this kinda stuff.
This was my thinking too, but if one falls onto another object, and one falls onto the terrain, then I'd be curious which does the damage. I'd assume it's still whichever landed first
I dunno. His verbiage sounded like it's an object until it attaches to an object. I don't think it only becomes an object when it attaches to terrain.
In which case, when the glass is destroyed, the most recent object would become independent first, and thus gain priority. 🤷🏻
@@TheRussell747if one lands on the ground, and one falls on a box, the child of the box is higher up in the code than the individual on the the floor. Imho.
Gen 4, 5 and 6 was a magical time in gaming. There'll never be anything like it again.
I don't comment a lot but Karl is a fucking legend. All of this shit he's going through and he continues to put out quality content. Awesome stuff man, I hope all goes well.
Its nice when creators put some thought into their ads. Made me watch instead of skip, and honestly seems like a product I'd like. I appreciate creators promoting things they actually use, or things they think their audience would find useful. I also try to be healthy, and finding good low calorie no sugar substitutes for "bad" food that still taste good is valuable to me. I'll give these a try.
Have to rant about sugar for a sec too - Sugar legitimately is the biggest problem in both the US and UK, ahead of drugs, alcohol, violence, etc. It is so detrimental for your health. Hard for younger people to see but once you cross 30 you feel everything you put into your body more, like 10X more. Sugar is devastating and dangerous in excess. Type 2 diabetes is no joke. Not saying ban it, freedom of choice is always preferred, just that its done in moderation and taken as seriously as it should be!
Using the literal media coverage pictures to show off how great your ad's product has made you look...
Dang, that's good marketing
15:30 - Here's my guess on mines on objects that get destroyed.
Those mines are added back to the world as if you had thrown them (in reverse order). They would then attach to the terrain in the order that they hit the terrain (the one that falls a shorter distance attachs first) with the understanding that they're processed in that reverse order, so if they hit the ground during the same frame, the last mine thrown is the first mine to hit the floor and becomes the "first" mine (and its then the first mine you threw originally that damages you).
Always love a Goldeneye video!
A wild MDB appeared!
"I look pretty damn good" - love it. Best of luck in court, Karl. Hope you win and also RECOVER ALL YOUR EXPENSES from that jerk.
"I frames? More like Fine frames, look at me." - Karl Jobst, probably.
Keep winning sir.
This was smooth!!!
Karl: "And I'll see you"
Me: "in court."
Wait wrong channel
karl you absolute legend
i don't even play golden eye, i just find the detail and information in your videos fascinating
"Your honor, may I be excused? A new goldeneye glass-breaking strat just dropped"
I love your Goldeneye and Perfect Dark speedrunning videos, Karl. You always manage to make them both interesting and easy to understand.
Hey mom, get the camera!! I’m a legend!!!
I have never been so happy to work a night shift in the US. A Karl Jobst video is always a blessing.
Distance is irrel
"Translate to English"
@@SillyKivy Ew it actually does translate it though.
@@delphicdescant that's why its funny
Goldeneye speedrunning absolutely blows my mind. This was a really cool vid.
suffered only mine-or damage
This comment should have more likes
Thats funny on several levels, another level being that only one mine hits you so the 'or' in mine-or also fits
You don't usually see media photos of people leaving court looking so good. 👍 And I don't think anybody else could make a video about how a game orders the priority of remote mines so interesting.
Karl, I haven't played goldeneye since before I was ten, but your narrative cohesiveness is top notch my man. Please never stop making what you do :)
This was a very welcome addition and surprise, especially as I am a massive fan of GoldenEye and speedrunning.
I wish you all the very best in your trial and no doubt you have truly amazing lawyers.
I am just a little bit worried, as apparently Billy has amazing lawyers too and a couple of review videos stated that there were some very positive moments for him and that things weren’t looking good for you.
Let's hope that doesn't materialise into the final outcome.
It would also be great to see you win in the ring against him, as per the animated sections in some of your previous videos.
why is Jerma in the thumbnail
He's trapped, he needs you to save him
Guest appearance
He does look pretty damn good in those pics 2:56
The fact Magic Spoon allowed his code to be LEGEND is actually awesome.
I really hope the sponsor money helps with taking care of his family while he's dealing with this trial.
You have a unique voice that.I have grown to love. I also love any Goldeneye (64) videos. It is pretty much the only game I play these days since it's the perfect video game in my eyes. Even if trying to climb the ladder on the Aztec level pisses me off to no end, I still have a great time overall.
As a game developer myself, and having learned how the code functions for mines and objects/floors, it'll be the mine that hits the ground first that the game will use. This is because of how mines and the floor work, since the first mine that's attached to the wall or floor when thrown from the player is the one it prioritizes, that means that the mine that first hits the ground will be counted as the first mine thrown and thus be the one prioritized.
This is also what I thought, but then at 16:10 Karl said “because the mine is still in the air and hasn’t hit anything yet, it’s still considered to be in the terrain” which assuming he’s right, means that mines attaching to terrain is irrelevant. There’s still 2 possible answers in my mind though
1) The mines remember the order in which they were originally created, and mine 1 will take priority over mine 2
2) The mines are destroyed and recreated, and whichever mine is recreated first will take priority. In this instance, I believe that would be mine 2 due to how multiple mines on the same object are ordered
Karl is a "celebrity" for a while now (media). Thank God he's still low key like he used to be.
Thanks for all the great content you create bro!
I'm following you for about 10 years now and hopefully there will be another 10 years at least.
He actually does look younger here than he does in previous videos, he's doing something right with his focus on his health.
You're confusing "younger" with "healthier". He does not look younger.
How this wasn't found 25 years ago is the actual mystery, i have done similar things in other games to glitch through walls, or kill enemies in 1 shot without killing myself, or negate fall damage. I'm not a pro speedrunner of any sorts, i just like challenge runs and use exploits to obtain things i shouldn't be able to get. Basically, at the 5:20 mark i knew exactly what was about to happen, sure i didn't know about the order of explosions on terrain vs glass, but that's pretty easy to figure out.
2:51 "But what I can say is that in the photos captured by the media, I look pretty damn good"
*_ABSOLUTELY MOGS US_*
It sounds like when placed on an object, the children are probably a linked list if new are inserted first, so when destroyed it would be iterated over in the same order (LIFO), and added onto the global list (FIFO) which results in the last one added still going off.
Hey Karl,
There's no rush to compile a video together concerning the trial. Many of us overlook the fact that issues we have accumulated over time also may require the equivalent to come to terms with them.
I appreciate you,
Take care!
The intended path takes 6 seconds...
Speedrunners: Not fast enough!
I'm not smart enough for this
I was with you throughout all of that. As you narrowed down the scope, In my head I would single out something and focus on something else. When it came to the theory of the mines, absolutely, the fact that the first one that you place is the one that damages you is not something I expected. Thats what blew my mind.
Also, I didn't even know the game actually made it so the mines detached from objects and fell onto terrain to be used again. Damn, details in games sometimes.
Who else is here for billy mitchell comments 🤣🤣🤣🤣
i´m here for the roast of Billy M. and i want him well done.
No one person has done more to defame Billy Mitchell than Billy himself. His inability to understand how electronics works results in him attempting to gaslight everyone that actually understands it. Electricity isn't magic, it doesn't have a mind of its own, and it can't violate the laws of physics in a way that solely benefits him.
the two thing karl will NEVER stop talking about, billy mitchel and golden eye hahahaa good luck in the trials i hope you wipe the floor with billy
2:58
Karl: “I’ve been eating today’s sponsor”
Billy’s Camp: “Karl J admits to cannibalism”
The amount of detail and knowledge needed of a game to speed run it will always blow my kind.
You ate a SPONSOR? Bro, you're supposed to eat the sponsor's product!
You can't even get your money now, you ATE THEM! YOU MONSTER!!!
This is as bad as that "UberEats driver" incident.. That poor driver.. He didn't stand a chance..
Thank you
I love the fact you can take a topic that I know nothing about, and still make a very entertaining video
16:26 Mine-or damage, ay?
As a programmer, I found that whole "which mine will damage you" section to be interesting. Plus, it was delivered in a way where even people with no programming background can understand. Amazing job.
Completely unburdened by in-depth knowledge of goldeneye code
I think that if you shatter glass that has mines, that the first mine hitting the floor counts as first placed.
I feel like it would in newer games with more complex coding for object tracking and whatnot. In an older game like that, I think it would be more likely to attach meaning to whichever mine hit the object to render first out of the two.
I'd really like to know, lol.
Wouldn't be too sure about that. A falling mine is already part of the global object list, just like a mine on terrain. Unless the mine is removed from the list and then added back when it lands, instead of its position simply being updated, it would still be the mine that was placed last.
@@hellterminator Yeah, I guess this actually depends on how the game handles a "moving" mine - Is it the same entity the whole time, or are "moving physics object mine" and "placed mine that can be detonated" two different entities that get swapped out as needed?
Edit: Considering the explanation at 16:10, Seems like the former is the case. I.e., it's always the same mine object, it gets added to the end of the object list normally, and if it hits an object it gets moved to become a child of that object. And, notably, when a mine object is moved to become a child of another object, the game no longer cares about which order it was loaded/spawned into the game, since that list is built on the basis of "most recent attachment first".
I _assume_ that when an object gets destroyed, the mines on it are "read"/handled in the order that they exist in the "child object" list, and then moved to the end of the list of all objects in that same order.
So, with that in mind, my guess is that the last (as in newest/most recent) mine attached to the destroyed object would be the first to detonate/deal damage, since it will now be the first mine object in the list of all objects - assuming that all mines land on the floor or stay in the air (and assuming that there aren't any other mines on other objects or on the floor before that). If some/all of the mines land on new objects, then the last mine to land on the object that's highest up in the object list would be first to detonate.
Bro you look like your in the prime of life! I have been following your billy drama this whole time and I’m rooting for you! Thanks for all the great work
Here's what I think goes on with two mines on a destroyed object.
When the two mines are placed on the glass pane, they are child objects to the glass pane itself. When the glass pane is destroyed, the game has to let the mines fall on the ground and attach somewhere else. If the glass is destroyed, that means the game can't keep referencing the mines as child objects because the object they were attached to does not exist anymore. I find it likely that the game treats these mines as if they were new mines being thrown by Bond, which means their damage order follows the same rules. If both of them stick to terrain, like they do in the video, the first one to land takes priority.
Let me know if I got it right, I don't play GoldenEye.
Edit: 11 hours have passed since I wrote this comment, and my opinion has changed. I now think mines retain their original order (second takes priority) when they fall. Read replies for more details.
I like it. The inverse outcome of this would be reasonable too, with the mines keeping their priority because they had already been spawned as objects on an object. But I wouldn't be surprised if the mines just flat out stopped working as intended either
Definitely curious as this is what I assumed too
@@trashgang_ the issue is you can detonate mines midair "you have to let the mine detonate midair". And as such it would be a waste of memory to store the mine's data somewhere else while waiting for it to fall onto something. If it falls onto an object the game will check it when it landed there and place the mine into the stack of the object again
This is a logical conclusion. I'm not well-versed in game coding from these games, only gut feelings from playing many of them and being obsessed with messing with mechanics as a kid, lol.
I think your idea, the mine attached the first render object being attached to it still and exploding first still, or the mines having bizarre or nulled action after the pane is broken are all logical.
@@SillyKivy CAN you detonate mines in middair in GoldenEye 007 though?
I don't know which is more fun to watch improve over the years- the strats or the resolution of the videos.
*sigh* again with the sponsor that doesn't actually ship to the country he is from. It's a shame really since I kind of want to try it but don't want to have to go through bs just to get it sent to me.
Don't waste your money on that cereal. The boxes are hella expensive, extremely small, and the cereal itself tastes like paper.
If it makes you feel any better I've heard it's terrible
Rule of tgumb. Never buy a RUclips sponsor of a random company
You don’t want to eat magic spoon…..ever. Tastes like cardboard and regret.
Just buy some bars at a store.
Damn Karl. I've been watching you since at LEAST 2017. Youre looking amazing rn, keep it up man. Goodluck with your trial as well. No matter what happens us legends stand by you!
Good work Karl, you inspired me to start my own channel in gaming
Good luck
I flipping love learning about how game logic works like this! 14:10
Cant wait to hear from your win, I heard you are doing great
Of course the original comment has 1 thumbs up, while the bot with the booba pfp has 90
This knowledge has even further practical applications in death match! Knowing how the damage is calculated for the explosions would give you a huge advantage.
I love watching this game find new strats and routes after like decades, it’s like my childhood is growing with me if that makes sense lol
16:26 "suffer only /mine-or/ damage" Geddit?? No? Oh...
Take your like and think what you did.
15:20 indie game dev here, and my guess is that they keep the same priority as when they were on the glass, since the moment the glass breaks, they are considered "terrain" mines, so it doesn't matter which hits the ground first. It'd probably remove the child (bomb) of the object and place them into the terrain one-by-one the frame the glass is broken
15:42 - wdym it's not logical? :o Perfectly fine logic and good thinking from programming team! (as a programmer I laughed)