The Mormon Church VS Science
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Leave a comment letting me know what your views on scientific facts were as a religious person!
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SOURCES:
Thomas S. Monson, “so-called science:” www.churchofje...
Bruce R. McConkie, conflict between science and religion: Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie, second edition, page 681
2 Nephi 9:28: www.churchofje...
Gordon B. Hinckley, science is good: www.churchofje...
Russell M. Nelson, science & the church are compatible: www.ldsliving....
Church’s stance on the “flooded earth”:
www.churchofje...
Ensign article on the flood of Noah: www.churchofje...
Ensign article on the Tower of Babel:
www.churchofje...
Linguistics and the Tower of Babel: web.archive.org...
The church’s stance on Adam and Eve as the first humans:
www.churchofje...
What good is this promoting? It's disgusting
Sorry you’re so offended by reality 😅
You sure are disgusting Sis.... You sure are.
The good that this is promoting is: Convincing people to stop giving all of their time, money, energy to an organization that cannot save their souls, that needlessly fills the members with guilt and shame for the "sins" that they will most surely commit. Helping free people from the irrational fear of eternal punishment. Pointing people away from a path that requires total submission to the will of the organization's leaders. Nothing disgusting here.
It frees people's minds, time, and money.
I keep laughing at this comment and imagine you clutching some pearls.
I thought mormonism was aligned with science and then stopped thinking. Now that I'm outside I cringe that I was unable to think.
Ikr. I feel sick.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet Not that I would wish you feeling ill, learning this information is difficult to accept.
The church is aligned with real science, not fake science. Know the difference. Or, have you ironically stopped thinking?
Oh gosh, one of the most cringey things I've ever said as a Mormon was during an institute class. "The study of science is Satan's plan for destroying faith in the church."
Oof. That is cringy.... I think I've heard the same thing, too
Wow, that was harsh and I'm sure a very popular belief!! So sad.
Sad that there are members who act that way. Fortunately not all of them do.
They just worded it wrong. The correct wording is "seculars lie that they have science that disproves religion but fortunately I haven't fallen for any of their lies".
Christians invented science.
@Emily Kay Martinsen [Transportation] The very nature of science is truth. Reproducible truth available to anyone with the desire to learn. That these things are true and provably so makes them more the laws of god than any of the fantastical tales made up by men who would rather you tithe than they work. For all the tithes given unto the lord are spent first upon the priesthood and then the temples, and maybe, under great duress, the membership. This is not just a mormon issue, but one that infects the very heart of the business known as religion and has for as long as we have history.
This was great! I didn’t know what we were allowed to believe when I was Mormon. At 34 years old, I found myself in awe as I finally learned about evolution, cosmology, deep time, etc. I was so unbelievably ignorant as a cult member.
Literally every time I "bared my testimony" it always revolved around how science and the church aligned. Now that I'm out I see how foolish that is. I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that way
Just want to say I love your videos! I grew up an atheist in Utah and have tons of stories of "friends" who tried to convert me lol
I actually taught middle school science for a decade and it drove me insane how other science teachers in Utah wouldn't actually teach the REAL science. They would instead smooth the more controversial topics over by including religious ideas into the discussion. I wanted to know how they graduated college?! The conflict between science and "faith" is part of what has me where I am today. Why would God try SO hard to hide things that are real from geologic or even supposed "historical" records?! If he/she/it really loved us and wanted us to come back, you'd think there would be at least SOME physical evidence for all the stuff in the Bible and the BOM. They wouldn't be totally absent!
Hmm, it's almost like the Bible and BOM is full of man-made stories. Thanx for sharing your experience.
Then how do you explain the things there is proof of, I notice how people always mention things that there is not proof of, yet these same people skip over entirely when faced with things there is proof of, at least as Christian's when faced with things that we don't have proof of or can't explain we readily admit that we don't know all things(at least most of us do and most of us try to be respectful and kind when doing so, unfortunately not all do and I would like to personally apologize for those who disagree with hateful self righteous disdain). I remember learning of cities in Central and south America being discovered buried in the earth and sunk in the sea in the 6th grade, it wasn't until several years later after I was grown and I met the missionaries and got baptized, 3 years after I realized that the account in 3 Nephi aligns perfectly with what archeology has found, also in D&C 88 it mentions light that proceeds from the throne of God and fills all things including us with light that was in 1832-1833, in 2009 I remember learning that scientists had discovered we are made of cells that are luminescent , that glow in the dark, in other words we are filled with light. Also there are things in the Bible that science supported centuries after they were written one example is that most of the foods in the old testament that are mentioned as unclean years later were found to be proven to be unhealthy many such as pork are the ones that are highest in cholesterol and other things that are the biggest cause of heart disease.
If they went to a church university, it's easy to see how they graduated. My gen-ed science classes at BYU-Idaho were a solid mix of science and Mormon apologetics.
Let us think for a moment... God, if you will, creates by some undiscovered method a universe which consists of the standard model of particles, plus anything else we've not figured out (like dark matter etc.) and let it all go in what ever direction those rules require. Now a few billion years later, humans are here as consequences of those rules. Humans are social creatures in a dualistic state of cooperation and competition with each other. They use deception as a part of their survival strategy for both the control of resources and reproduction. Their understanding of god's laws laid down at the very instant of beginning is unimportant and irrelevant as belief in those laws, or even knowledge of those laws has no impact upon the obedience to those laws. Thus, gravity does not care about any human's belief and it is obeyed without question. Understanding those laws is a matter of study. Truly, to know the mind of god, if such an entity exists, is to understand the rules of this universe. Those laws do not bend, are not breakable, and require absolute obedience. Good thing you never have to think about it, right?
Now we contrast this with religion. ALL of the religious laws are things set down to regulate the behaviors of humans among themselves. Those laws are broken with divine impunity by some and human retribution by others. Evil done in the heart of the temple is unpunished by the alleged deity who demands absolute obedience to the law or else: lakes of fire forever! The reason religion isn't true, is because it's not about truth and never has been. It's about controlling other humans and their resources.
Some poor LDS soul is going to talk about Lex to his Bishop . Then both he and the Bishop will sing a duet," SHE BLINDED ME WITH SCIENCE!" :D
LMAO
Almost as funny as this ruclips.net/video/r9kJ_NdZT1A/видео.html
The one that really broke my shelf was Moses and his people kept in captivity. Egyptians are thorough when it comes to record keeping. Not a single Egyptian scroll or hieroglyphic mentions Moses and his people. They fled from Egypt to modern day Israel, which back then, was STILL Egypt. Oh and that they roamed a tiny little area of land for 40 freaking years. Not a single archeological discovery of Moses' people has been made there. Thousands of people died during their aimless wandering when the journey was a 3 day walk from Egypt.
How do Mormons explain this? God didn't want it written, that's why the Egyptians didn't write about it, and we haven't found everything yet regarding his people. But we've discovered civilizations that consisted of less than 3,000 people. Surely we'd find something, ANYTHING from a group of millions of people and.millions of animals in a small area of desert.
The Egyptians didn’t record the Israelites being slaves because they were ashamed.
@@recabitejehonadab2654 The Egyptians would have been absolutely decimated if the Passover/Exodus actually occurred. Their economy and livelihood would have been crippled. After the river of blood, the loss of livestock, the locusts, and the Passover, very few surviving Egyptians would have been left to find. Even if this event was somehow whitewashed from Egyptian writings, the enemies of Egypt (Babylon, Assyria, and Canaan) would have NOT have omitted it from their own writings, because the crippling of Egypt would have been a major celebratory event for these nations.
@@recabitejehonadab2654 Israeli archaeologist Ze'ev Herzog summarizes the modern historian's consensus: "The Israelites never were in Egypt. They never came from abroad. This whole chain is broken. It is not a historical one. It is a later legendary reconstruction - made in the seventh century BCE - of a history that never happened."
And by the way, are you seriously proposing that the evidence for the exodus is that there's no evidence?
And the neighboring enemies of Egypt don't mention it either. Were they also ashamed?
Lets just accept the truth and stop pretending that we can read the minds of a culture which existed three thousand years ago.
Fun fact I was admonished by my bishop for "asking to many questions god isn't ready to give us answers to" I was then admonished a month later when I decided to go into Astrophysics for "Trying to force god for answers he doesn't have to give us" Didn't work out to well as I have a Masters in Astrophysics and haven't been to church in 10 years
Ok so a couple of questions
So are the stars "knawlum" or eternal as Joseph Smith said, or do they burn out eventually?
Yep, I think Joseph got that one wrong too.
If God took seven days to create the Earth but He made the rest of the entire universe on the 4th day, I'm surprised he didn't take a break right after that. Man, he kept right on working until the seventh day before resting. What a trooper! He must have done something really tricky with the speed of light too, because He made the entire universe about 4000 years ago ( Book of Mormon and D&C sec 77 claims) But we've proven beyond any shadow of a doubt that galaxies and stars are millions of light years away. So he must have grabbed the light from every possible point in the entire universe and accelerated it WAY beyond the existing speed of light made all those photons hit Earth just right so that we could look up in the night sky and see the stars were created on that one day, 4000 years ago, but are actually millions of light-years away. Amazing! God really is tricky! ha ha
The lip color you’re wearing is ON POINT 😍😍🙌🏼🙌🏼
If it's ok, another comment. We do have evidence of MASSIVE floods. Unimaginal FLOODS, but NOT World Wide Floods. As you said that is impossible. These happened around the time of the last Ice Age, and are probably where ALL the World's flood myths come from. In other words YES we had catastrophic floods that almost wiped us out. If anyone is interested I direct you to any podcast or lecture by Randal Carlson. Awesome stuff there. Thanks Exmo Lex!
I have never mentioned this but it means so much to me whenever I see where you write "There's Nothing You're Not Worthy Of". It's such a powerful message. I thank you for that message!
I had a paleontology book when I was a mormon youth. I studied evolution and the age of the earth. I got absurd explanations and apologist answers from family and church leaders all my life. I left the Church shortly after my mission. A heavy weight on my "shelf" from about age 9, was science.
love your sweatshirt ☺️
your videos are so helpful and comforting to me as a minor stuck in a mormon household (i’m avoiding seminary at the moment in fact lol). I’m almost out in about two years, but for now, having this exmo community is the only thing keeping me sane
Im in the same boat and recently turned 17. So ready to graduate
I'm 18 and currently pretending to believe until I'm out of the house. Same about the exmo community
LOL! This reminds me of a story.
New convert, TBM! I was with my TBM friends one day. They knew so much more than me so I trusted their opinions. I did have a question. I asked, 'hey what about the Dinosaur fossils we keep finding? Where did they come from and how can it fit into Mormon Doctrine(dogma)?' My good friend Whiz( that was his nickname. Cool guy, still think so. ) said, "Well the Pearl of Great Price says this World was made from the remnants of other Worlds. Maybe, thats how the fossils got here?" That made sense to naive little me at the time, and I accepted it for a long time. I wish I could debate that with him now. I could tear that story into tiny little pieces. I Am no longer naive.
Mormonism and Science are incompatible.
Good show ol' girl!
Lol I’ve heard TBMs say that, too!
Embarrassingly enough, I taught this same thing(the dinosaur theory) to a young military guy back in my mission. He got baptized (in retrospect) because he thought what we were doing as missionaries was cool. Years later, the world is truly small, and i ran into him, but he was no longer a Mormon, good for him, and shame on me lol.
Never Mormon, but as an evangelical, I rallied against evolution only to come to the realization that it is almost observable when considering the natural world objectively.
Almost? Evolution is the reason we must get a new flu vaccine each fall: cells that reproduce every couple of hours make enough small changes over a year's generations we need to likewise update our immune system's antibodies to be effective.
Wow this makes me feel like everything I was taught in the church is a lie I’m glad I left the church
I love this topic. I am a computer engineer and have studied math and science for my entire life (as well as linguistics) and have found multitudinous counterexamples of the church from science. I remember learning about the "inhabitants of the moon" and later by Brigham about the "inhabitants of the sun". And the prophecy of Joseph Fielding Smith that man would never go to the Moon.... Oh, so cringe
P.S. Your makeup today is on fire!! Looking good! :D
One has only to search the patriarchal blessings given by Brigham Young Jr. ( Brigham's son ) to read the promises that the recipient would proclaim the gospel to the inhabitants of the moon, Venus and Mercury.
WTF! Inhabitants of the moon and sun? I thought I knew everything about Mormoncorp, but it seems almost every week I learn something else that is level 100 cringe.
It’s true I have come across many different church members that believe different things.
Right? I’ve met members who were staunchly anti-science, and others who believed in it.
@@Spungle15 I know of a member who is a scientist (not sure what type of scientist to be honest) and I politely asked how is that possible and they said that they believe both the church and science and they don’t agree with every single thing from the church or science they are well balanced.
To those staunch Mormons that don’t believe in science I would like to ask what do they do when they are ill?
Do they use traditional, primitive methods and herbs all the time?
Nothing wrong with that even today.
What would they do if they had cancer?
Do they pop their babies out drug free without any tools?
If they are struggling to have children and IVF is a viable option would they take it?
I was a convert (from the Seattle area, no less) so when I joined the church at 16 and moved to Utah with my family, I still held onto Science. I bent over backwards (without realizing it took that much effort) to say that god and christ worked WITH science to bring everything to pass. I felt like Adam and Eve were symbolic or were the first more modern version of humans...then I went to the Temple and saw the video and realized they were supposed to be literal. That was uncomfortable (along with the rest of the temple ceremony), but I decided that I couldn't know everything so I'd just roll with it and still thought I could be pro-science and mormon. Then I went on a mission to Brazil, and about 2 weeks in the field I got reprimanded for telling a doubtful investigator that we do believe in evolution and dinosaurs during a conversation about it. It was at that point that I realized just how anti-science they were. I ended up leaving 6 months into my mission when I found out about the "real" first vision account and the underage wives.
Fellow exmo here. Yeah, I was definitely taught the same tower of babble-language connection. I also held the same belief as you regarding the relationship between “the gospel” and science-that if Heavenly Father (because Mormons never say God) created all things, then he must’ve created science, too. So it would clearly follow his plan and the rules of science somehow magically became the rules of god in my mind, too. Except when it wasn’t. Or when the church came out low key “debunking” various scientific issues or topics. Gahhh. So much mental gymnastics.
If there was no death of any kind before the fall then what were Adam and Eve eating?
Don’t ask questions, god will let you know in the afterlife!! D:
@@ExmoLex oh ok. 🤣 Better question why were they eating? if they can't die and if their bodies are perfect then there is zero need to eat.
@@ExmoLex
Lol
I heard it was fruit...forbidden fruit..., so they were supposed to starve instead???
@@mylesmarkson1686 you can't starve if you can't die. that was the whole point of my question if they can't die then there's absolutely no reason for them to eat.
Great topic! There is great book I love that hepled set my thoughts about this topic in system in my head - Faith Versus Fact: Why Science and Religion Are Incompatible be Jerry Coyne.
My brother is a science major and said it “shows that the church is true” or strengthens his testimony or something. He’s getting into med school or something. He had a ‘rebellious’ phase and the way he acts now? I’m very concerned for any future patients of his.
Yeah, I was researching therapists in my local area and one guy’s professional profile was all about his devout belief into The Church. My response was “NEXT!” I want tried and true secular methods not faith based bs.
@@Jupiter_Crash I THOUGHT I was seeing a secular therapist years ago, and then, during what would be my LAST sesh with her, she spoke of seeing FAIRIES in all seriousness to me, an atheist World Myth instructor, and my partner, a college biology instructor! Unbelievable...I don't know how she thought that was going to go, but we went out the door and didn't look back!
@@mizotter - I’m glad you got out of that situation. Fairies are myth but I’ve never heard of it as an Atheist World Myth.
Scary thought that the current prophet Russell M. Nelson was a renowned heart surgeon. You know he took a few science classes in medical school. Didn't shake him any. Scary.
@@Jupiter_Crash LOL. Comma needed: atheist, World Myth instructor. I taught myths from around the globe and all of human history at a high school for a couple of decades. :-)
Wait, so American Indians aren't decedents of Jews who sailed through the ocean to America in ancient submarines? I mean, that story makes so much sense.
Aron Ra rocks.
I really loved this episode!
I was a cellular scientist at BYU when the Widstoe Building still existed (RIP.)
The Religion department absolutely hated us! All our faculty were evolutionary biologists except for one: Gary Booth.
The Religion dept would send us nasty mail and the occasional anonymous fax threatening us and extolling Dr. Booth.
Fun times
Oh Jesus 😳
A cellular biologist at BYU must be like a flat-earther at the CERN supercollider. Science and religion diverge in two entirely different directions....one based on repeatable verifiable evidence- the other on evidence-free indoctrination and unfounded beliefs. Science is self- correcting knowledge, while religion tries to hammer the square peg of knowledge to fit into a round hole of beliefs.
Why do you believe in evolution
@@hosoiarchives4858 It is not so much a 'belief' in the same sense as evidence- free religious beliefs- rather than accepting the massive preponderance of independent evidence. I also believe/ accept quantum theory because it works and has extraordinary explanatory and predictive capabilities. I 'believe' in Pythagoras theorem that conservatively is utilized billions of times each day and never once has been proven wrong (at least not in Euclidian space). Compare my beliefs to those of Brigham Young who believed the sun was populated by lifeforms.
@@rontoolsie Cool story. Why do you believe in evolution
Thank you for uploading this topic. I want to share two personal experiences of mine:
1. Around 2003, James E. Faust gave a conference talk about pornography. In the talk he said that viewing this type of media can make a person become a child molester. This is unscientific because he was neither using any data that shows this nor was he actually citing any sources or quoting any perspective from a psychologist or doctor or anybody who is in fact researching this phenomenon. For a few years I actually believed it until I started asking around. This topic is vastly more complicated than Faust made it seem.
2. Then on my mission I remember other Elders, who also could never use reliable sources, said the craziest about dinosaur fossils. This happened because these things existed on other planets which became chunks of asteroids or matter that was used to make the Earth. It is shocking how anti-scientific people become in the Church. This is surprising because of the high number of Mormons with higher degrees of education.
3. Also Hinckley said several times that God created the internet and I mean what a joke.
The problem with religious beliefs is that people can just say things like "God hid the evidence of the flood to test people's faith." For any issues like these a wand can be waved by some higher being to override any logic.
I am amazed at how you always provide so much information covering your subjects. You educate yourself everyday and then me!
Did anyone add it to their shelf in 98? Ya. Me. I graduated in 99. Huge science nerd all the way through school (I'm actually a medical lab scientist today).
I met Henry B Erying at the Faraday lecture one year and asked him tons of science questions, and he promised me I'd learn all the answers in the temple. My PB said the same thing, and I had so many apologetic hoops to make it all word. The two worlds were completely in sync in my world almost all the way through school. I'm embarrassed about it all now. But ya. I definitely remember that talk.
Omg is your name really Tim Burton?
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet yes, but probably not the one you're thinking of lol
Excellent topic! I was that child that asks questions about everything. I was also raised in the church and learned from a very young age that most of my questions were not welcome. My Mormon family did/does not support me going to college - and thought I should devote myself to being a wife/mother. And they continue to pray for me to CTR as I progress through grad school as a science major. They are “saddened” by my DNA research bc it “undermines God” 🤦🏻♀️👩🏻🔬😭
As a retired high school teacher, I want to thank you for studying science. Please do all you can to help those around you understand reality. Be well.
The ouija shirt makes this video even better lol
Well Said! Genetics, Archeology, Linguistics, Logic and Philosophy, Cosmology, Physics, all these (and more I am probably forgetting) have to be compromised for one to stay a believing member.
I've watched that Aronra Playlist like 6 times, I love it so much. Fun fact: Aron is also exmo xD
I don't agree with EVERYTHING Aron says, but 99.9% of it.
Evolution is taught at BYU abut any history of the nephite and lamanites are NOT taught 😂😂😂
....except in Institute.
Great video Lex, thank you!
Blah Blah Blah I'm commenting to comment for the sake of commenting, Blah Blah Blah
I'm a new fan of yours. Thanks for speaking the truth.
Plus 10 points for using Aron Ra
As a scientifically minded LDS youth from California attending BYU's 800-person Biology 101 class in 1990, I was shocked (SHOCKED, I tell you) at the number of my classmates that were incensed the professors were teaching the abomination of evolution at "the Lord's University!" The theory of evolution was simply fact to me (though I did hold the "but Man" exception as a belief). After all, I knew plenty of Mormon scientists. Now, of course, I don't know they found their beliefs compatible with their professional lives, but I think the same about any religious scientist.
Regarding the flood, even sometime Mormon apologist Orson Scott Card, hypothesized in his book "PastWatch" that Noah, as a youth on a spirit walk, saw the cracks in the natural dam holding the ocean back from the Red Valley, and tried to warn his people, only to have them mostly ignore him until the dam broke and formed the Red Sea. A totally localized event.
I'm so glad your channel is growing! You're presentation on every topic is great!
I was Mormon. Still am on paper. So what did I believe? Well...I tried to eliminate doubts by making guesses and wrapping it around what I understood to be true. I understood that the Church and science were incompatible, and that the history didn't exist according to how it actually happened. So yeah, I just tried to justify the Church for years until I just stopped believing.
Now that you mention it, it really was the scientific topic of epigenetics that really opened the door to my mind of the prophets being wrong and denying and ignoring evidence. This unfortunately has led to many suicides inside the church. Luckily I escaped with my life, but there were some close calls
I love how many holes those stories have. Like if everyone suddenly spoke different languages why would they pack up their lives and leave the area? Different language doesn't necessitate moving around the world. 🤣
I thought that science just "hadn't caught up to us yet" bc like science in the past has been wrong so why can't science now?
Yeesh
I once asked a question as a recent convert in church, " If Adam and Eve belonged to one race , where did all of the other races come from?" I never got a sensible answer.
I heard from several church members that they came from Cain 🙃
@@ExmoLex Of course they will say that , citing their "Curse of Cain" doctrine which is how the dark skinned races came into existence. I bet that they don't know that Afghanistan and Pakistan are home to an indigenous Caucasian race called the Pashtun or that skin color is an adaptation to climate, or that most languages spoken from India to Europe are linguistically related and whose roots can be traced back to Sanskrit. It is most probable that our first ancestors evolved in Africa from a species of early primates that slowly dispersed throughout the globe. Some African tribes still have not developed the ability to speak forming words instead they communicate through making a sequence of sounds or maybe we descended from multiple species of primates with evolution occuring simultaneously from the various points of origin and because Earth has an overall homogenous climate our ancestors evolved to look similar. How much more ignorant can a believing Mormon get by not considering at least some of the above I mentioned.
I didn't grow up Mormon, but my fundamentalist church said the Tower of Babel wasn't just where different languages arose; it was where we also got different races. I've also heard the Cain descendents claim as well, but from different denominations than what I was raised in.
@@katog I want to bring you into my classroom as a guest speaker! Great insight.
@@kkheflin3 That would be great!! If I only lived close by. Thanks for the beautiful compliment.
Now this is an interesting topic, I'll try to keep it as brief as I can.
When I was a member, I was like you Lex, I thought science and religion meshed quite well. However, shortly after leaving, I began to find out about differences in the church's teachings primarily through ex-mormon reddit. For example, I had been under the impression that members believed in dinosaurs, evolution, etc., but as you mentioned, there are some who actually believe the earth to only be 6000 years old, something I'd never heard of. Also while I had heard of the Noah's Ark 'counterclaim', I didn't realize it was so widespread within the church.
Overall it's been very interesting learning about these kinds of things having left the church.
Great video Lex keep it up! 👍
Thanx for the work that you do for people, giving them information and perspectives they might not normally get otherwise.
Yay! Another video 😍
Omg, Aron Ra's video is the first one I ever watched about disproving Noah's flood. I don't think I ever REALLY believed it, but I didn't have any personal knowledge of evidence against it until then.
My belief in science was solidified when at 18 years old the Carl Sagan series Cosmos came out on PBS. After that I read every Carl Sagan book ever written along with many other great scientific authors. I was hooked on the truth of science. My shelf started to become very, very heavy. Then with the advent of the internet, my shelf crashed like a 737 Max. Religion and science are not and never will be compatible.
I have to listen to Sagan's "Pale Blue Dot" clip several times per year. I'm so grateful for his life and work. Be well.
I had to laugh when you said you would learn everything after you died. I literally just a conversation with my mom about differences in the first vision stories and polyandry. Her answer was exactly that, “i don’t know but when i die all these things will be revealed to me”. None of it bothered her in the least even though she couldn’t answer any of my concerns.
Aron is awesome.
Of another story about Adam and Eve one it has who was at his first wife, she became the mother of the vampires.
It's Lilith. She's in the Hebrew story and considered the mother of demons and vampires. Hail Lilith. She wouldn't take shit from Adam!
SAME in Evangelical denoms (American Baptist, Weslyan, Assembly of God) where I attended & studied to be a lay pastor. Great video. American children have low science literacy overall, even in totally "secular" schools, because Christians lobby schools to limit instruction on the origin of the universe, the origin of life, evolution, and human sexuality. Far too many American schools don't offer accurate reproductive biology instruction that empowers youth to accept, protect, and celebrate their bodies and their sexualities. The local district offers "abstinence only" sex ed. Moralizing, body shame, and sex shame get far more air time than factual knowledge in the public school in MI.
In your opinion, how well does LDS church empower youth to accept, protect, celebrate their bodies and their sexualities for optimal physical, mental, emotional, & social well-being? As a parent, what concerns do you have about how any of these aspects of a child's development can be affected by LDS indoctrination and practices? Can a child's psycho-sexual health be at risk from teachings that can cause guilt and self-loathing? How do LDS teachings about youth align with what we know about healthy Child Development from Biology, Developmental Psychology, and Sociology?
Love your work. Be well.
Aron Ra's videos are amazing. Everyone needs to watch "Systematic Classification of Life." It's a masterpiece.
I want an ouija board on my tombstone.
I know someone who said he wanted, "I told you I was sick!" ;-)
There are plenty of Mormons who believe in evolution.Like the Goth look!
Then they believe in a different Mormon Church than the one Joseph Smith Jr. started
@@corrypeterson4254 And they totally believe in Adam and Eve, which is a direct contradiction to evolution.
Church leadership definitely holds ownership for the proliferation of anti-science attitudes. I prefer to think about Old Testament miracle stories as allegory and not literal. I've heard people describe the Adam and Eve story as a metaphor to teach us to leave our "Eden" so we can grow. I think its more realistic to think of the Bible (especially the old Testament) as more folklore crossed with or based on some real events.
BYU's natural history museum (the bean museum) has a section about human evolution (including accurate models of Australopithecus). They also have a section about climate change and a section about covid and vaccines. They are combating the trifecta of religious science denial lol.
When I went to BYU one of my biology professors frankly admitted that he did not believe in a global flood and my biochem 1 teacher said that he "has no problems whatsoever with human evolution"
The quote from about 7:00-8:30 from the Ensign got the author in trouble. The scientists from BYU were livid. The literalist interpretation was pushed by Joseph F. and later Joseph Fielding Smith who borrowed from the then-young Christian fundamentalists and were highly influenced by the Seventh Day Adventists.
Yes same. I was in the same boat that God and science worked together, and wherever they didn’t I just said science was wrong. Since science is ever changing I’m trying to leave the door open to Some kind of creator/God. Just not the way it was taught to me.
Wouldn't a better position be to not believe anything without evidence?
I was enjoying the video, as always it was well-researched and presented, but I was a little complacent until you did the funny voice line "the Bible says it so it must be true". That totally cracked me up and basically made my day. Thanks Lex!!!!
The comments and stories shared by people baffle me. Just wow...holy shite.
None of the miracles of jesus are provable
What an excellent video, it really gets too the heart of the "matter." Seriously though the conflict between the two, very different groups of ideas is the essential question everyone should be asking themselves.
I do hate the rejection of common sense facts and worse the superior attitude that certain religious groups cultivate!!
Who do they think they are, really though....they are certainly No Better than nonbelievers. Their lifestyles can't all be held up to the 'light.' They aren't anymore intellectual or moral than a nonbeliever or atheist; honestly this drives me crazy!!
It's 2021. Not 801.as a geographer, this is infuriating.
My favorite response to any reference to THE flood as being literal is, "Yeah! And then the kangaroos swam to Australia!"
Comment, comment , comment for the algorithm!
Remember, the Jaridites gathered after the Tower of Babal. Therefore, the Tower of Babal is a historic event.
That logic is flawed: all of the BOM narratives were certainly written later than the mythic just-so story about a tower in Babel, but that has no bearing on the veracity of either narrative. Certainly the tower was not the basis for the languages found across the world.
Each account could have some historical basis in fact, and either -- or both -- could be legendary, or even completely fictional. Their timing proves nothing about whether either are true.
Concerning Jaredites: we have no physical evidence that has passed peer review and been accepted by non-LDS archaeologists as evidence of Jewish settlers on an American continent prior to 1000CE. Members want to believe the BOM true, but artifacts discovered over the last 500 years indicate a very different history than Smith's.
My comment was meant to be saccadic. The TBMs love to point out things that either prove that the Book of Mormon is true or the odds of Joseph Smith guessing something were similar to someone willing the Power Ball lottery ten times in a row. There are a few hits like Nahom being in the right place at the right time. When confronted with items in the Book of Mormon that are not supported the TBMs fallback on claims that we have only explored 2% of the archeologic sites in the New World and in the future all Book of Mormon claims will be proven true.
Because the Book of Mormon make specific reference to the Tower of Babel and the confounding of tongues the TBMs are forced to accept that story as true and have to support it.
So far none of the TMBs have been able to offer any supporting proof other than a personal testimony
I thought Jesus casting the devils out of people, was people having seizures.
I thought everyone outside the church was crazy because ~obviously~ science fits with the church, duh 🙄
Christianity and things from the Bible can be confirmed by science and history. Neither can help Mormonism, infact , both actively disprove it. Also, doesn’t the fossil record support the flood of the Bible?
All the science things that don't make sense, actually do make sense...if your faith is great enough.
No matter how much the church becomes science-friendly, it can't abandon the Tower of Babel legend because the origin of the Jaredites, a group featured in the Book of Mormon, was added to it by Joseph Smith.
I grew up LDS and believed in evolution and science. I was even taught evolution at BYUH (a church school) I remember the biologically teacher let out a big sigh and told the class "ok we are now going to study evolution not EVILution." If I remember correctly one girl left the class 😅. Years later I was shocked when I was talking to my (educated mother with a masters degree) and found out she didn't believe in evolution. I mean, who is to say "7 days" was literal and Adam and Eve were the first "humans" after they took the time to evolve into them. I don't believe the LDS church anymore but I'm glad I wasn't that fucking stupid.
We are seniors. My wife is TBM and is hesitant to get vaccinated for COVID. I did it as soon as I could. I studied COVID and the vaccine and the risk calculation made it a no-brainer! I told her the "prophet" wants members to get it.. I got a very sour look...
When I was 7 my very TBM Dad, god bless him, he didn’t know better was going to call my public school in California to complain that they were teaching me evolution. So that was my first introduction to how much trust science Mormonism had in science.
I remember the first time Mormon conference was broadcast via TV, worldwide. The Mormons took this as the work of the Lord to better and more efficiently spread the word. God did it, right? GROG
Hi, do you remember what year the first broadcast was? I am ex JW but my husband is still in. He keeps using their line about how JW are the only ones preaching door to door world wide so I am trying to get info from other groups to be able to respond to him. Thank you!
@@rosiej.1473 Many JWs watched Leah Remini’s Scientology series and saw lots of parallels resulting in their questioning.
I remember hearing the same thing back then.
@@rosiej.1473 Hi, Rosie. It was maybe in the early to mid-sixties. I'm ex-Mormon. I met Mormon missionaries in Western Australia, years ago. They are everywhere, but that doesn't make their story true. GROG
@@deanbrunson259 Thank you! That helps, JW just started their broadcasting in 2015, I believe. And they think they are leading the way as God's directed organization and since members are not allowed to do outside research it is believed. But knowing Mormons beat them to the punch makes me smile. Thanks!
Claiming that life expectancy increasing by 25 years as the result of hard work by human researchers, doctors, and educators is somehow a miracle is some impressive stealing of valor.
Lex, could you give me your honest opinion on Protestant Christianity?
Curiosity is a sin apparently. Ugh. Smh
Second what? The books of the Mormon bible are different than the books of the Christian Bible? I thought they changed a few things here and there. I didn't know they wrote entire books and added that to the Bible i guess? How does the Mormon bible and Christian Bible differ? You know there's a verse in the Bible that warns everyone about adding or taking away from the Bible. Joseph Smith is a foolish man i mean was a fool.
Edit: I Googled the Mormon bible(that sounds dirty) .
WOW !!!!!
Keep up the work Lex. I’ve been watching you from your very first video.
“There wasn’t death before life! Gotcha!”
Things that were never alive and or are not alive cannot die. Okay. Yeah? AND?
Help
I am late to this but I definitely was taught that as a Mormon, evolution went hand in hand with how the religion turned out. But oh man, the mental gymnastics I went through.
Prime example: "Well, I may not understand how evolution worked. Adam and Eve where definitely the first beings on earth. And if I don't understand it in this life, that is okay. God will allow me to comprehend and understand this in the next life."
Jesus Christ. Thank god I got out of Mormonism.
No, the Bible is not a complete historical document of the entirety of Earth's history, nor is it the premier source of science, history, nor theology. The flood of Noah was either an analogy or a small scale event that took on an entirety new meaning in its aftermath (a massive river flood or a flash flood, for example).The Tower of Babel, same thing, it was either an analogy or a small scale event that took on a larger meaning. And Adam and Eve were, seemingly, the first enlightened persons on the planet, although, no, they were not the first humans. "The world was peopled before the days of Adam," Elder Orson Hyde said. And um...I can draw a line between Homo sapiens and non-Homo sapiens. For example, Homo neanderthalensis, H. habilis, H. naledi, H. erectus, and a variety of other non-Homo sapiens species. And evolution doesn't have to take millions of years. We can see new species in days with plants and bacteria (therefore you can easily pin-point there what is which species). And the years between Homo heidelbergensis and H. neanderthalensis, and H. sapiens is only a few several hundred thousand years. So no, the Bible is not a prime source in any of these fields, and I will not take it as such. It is solely a book that tells selected epochs of a followed people. And you don't have to take every one of these stories literally to believe in the theology of the Church--I would know. I don't believe that many of the stories in the Bible are real events, but here I am, a devout member.
I've always the Adam and Eve story.
I guess we are all products of an incestuous relationship.
I like Noah and his magic zoo boat one as well.
How can we trace language back 12,000 years when the earth is only 6000 years old? Sounds like fake news!
(Heavy sarcasm- since it doesn't translate well via text) 😂
my mental gymnastics involved adam and eve being the first 100% genetic human beings
I thought they just used science we didn't understand
Many Mormons and other religious people tell me quickly and dismissively “I just don’t think about these things!” They worry about starting on a path that will take them to a weaker testimony and maybe even apostasy. One person told me “I would want to be a member of this church even if it wasn’t true!” It’s their most beloved country club.
Great video. It's important to challenge bad ideas. I think there is a great deal of value in being a member of a religion, but it's important to understand that no-one has all of the answers, no one has "The Truth". I think that many people who turned away from religion have turned to science for a foundations of their belief's and they are turning science into a religion that you can't question... Science is all about questioning and challenging beliefs. Science has had its share of liars and fools. This is why science is always testing what it has learned. If you can't question science, it's become a religion for you.
I just feel dumb for believing that bullshit "Voices from the Dust" book 🤮
My father-in-law's kidney transplant bought him an extra _fifteen years,_ yet my DEVOUT LDS mother-in-law is still horribly skeptical (and willfully ignorant) about Medical Science. I think having the Prophet encourage members to practice ALL the COVID-19 safety guidelines, fills her with Cognitive Dissonance...forcing to choose between her _FAITH_ and the _FEAR_ of Science that her Church's _Authorities_ spent decades instilling in the first place. It must be especially difficult when the Prophet (a man of God) is _also_ a heart surgeon (a man of Science); in a religion that teaches, "It must be one or the other," how does one avoid hypocrisy when the Prophet represents BOTH?
As for the video, in college, I (a non-Mormon) attended church with some friends. When a reference to the angel Gabriel was followed with, "...who we now know was Noah in his earthly life," it was all I could do not to say, "Bullshit," out loud. That was decades before I discovered Aron Ra! (Love that you linked to his series! His "Foundational Falsehoods" series is also very good.) As for the Tower of Babel, in addition to the traceable origins and evolution of human language, there's also the inescapable fact that (even in Egypt, Rome, and Greece) ancient architectural methods and building materials _couldn't_ support a tower of more than a few stories...and Physics dooms such a project to failure even if it could. Finally, regarding Adam and Eve, for God to say, "Whatever you do, don't eat from THIS TREE RIGHT HERE," only to punish them for doing what they _couldn't_ know was wrong until _after_ they ate the fruit...well...if the story _were_ true, it was an utterly sadistic set-up (especially because an omniscient God would have _known_ how it was going to go down from the Beginning.)
I was told that with the creation of earth heaven days were longer than earth days. So it was made in 7 days but heaven days not earth days.