Are we surrounded by dark energy? A spacecraft tetrad will look for it
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- Опубликовано: 14 май 2024
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Most astrophysicists believe that 95% of the universe is dark stuff - dark matter and dark energy. We can’t see, feel, or hear it, but it’s supposedly all around us. NASA scientists recently proposed a new experiment to test what is going on with the dark stuff in our vicinity. The want to use four small spacecraft flying around the solar system in a tetrahedron formation to look for variations from Einstein’s theory of gravity. Let’s have a look.
Paper: arxiv.org/abs/2404.02096v1
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00:00 What
03:45 How 
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I hoped Dark Energy would have called on the phone. "Hey, hello Sabine, it's me, Dark Energy. And you know what ? I'm a super-symmetric indeterministic cord vibrating in a 11 dimensions Calabi-Yau manyfold, but you will never be able to prove or disprove me. Mwahahahah !"
Alas, it did not happen.
Maybe someone should endow you a chair?
Much like all those other unfalsifiable concepts that human perfidy invented and utilized to fleece each other.
Very naugthy manyfold that one😇
I was hoping Elon was gonna call.
😂🤝 legend
The sarcasm is strong with this one - I love it.
Now we just have to develop 4 viable flying saucers... but the elephant in the room is: What if after spendings 1,000,000 TRILLION DOLLARS to get there and we find NOTHING... OR... we get there and find there actually IS DARK MATTER... WTF do you do with it... IT'S JUST THERE... kind of like water to a fish...
@@t.c.2776 The point is to confirm or disprove a dominant theory on gravity. Not to do anything with dark matter. We don't even know for sure if it exists. You really have a hard time comprehending what was said, or what this comment truly meant by "sarcasm is strong with this one".
@@t.c.2776 We've already sent out dozens of space probes. We can afford four more.
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
Now now, I've learned from science that if your phone hasn't detected a gravitino, it simply means you need to build a bigger phone! 😂
Ha, wish I'd thought of this!
It may have the same effect if you put many phones together.
Don't forget to turn off call blocking and call forwarding.
@@MichaelWinter-ss6lxbut only if you arrange them in a Tetrahedron
@@SabineHossenfelder, can you weigh in on Neil Turok & Co's New (Simple) Theory of Everything (and the complex/imaginary 'mirror' beyond the boundary conditions where big bangs happen)?
Very interesting, thank you. "the GDEM spacecraft will be placed on nearby elliptic heliocentric orbits", "Using the data about the Sun’s position and distance, our system-comprising satellites typically spaced 1,000 km apart and orbiting with a semi-major axis of 1 AU-shows capability to achieve a measurement precision approaching O(10−24 s−2)." Hopefully this answers some of the questions about where the spacecraft might be located in the solar system. I hope this project gets the funding it needs.
This sounds like a scaling up of the NASA-ESA Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (LISA)/evolved Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (eLISA) concept that was designed for gravitational wave detection. The LISA/eLISA concept has only 3 spacecraft.
The arXiv paper states "The measurement systems prescribed for GDEM involve assessing GGT between spacecraft pairs connected by laser ranging interferometers across considerable distances, important for reaching the required sensitivity. While similar to the inter-spacecraft laser ranging in LISA, GDEM’s system is tailored for accuracy over these specific distances...There are many ways to set up such a configuration. As an example, we consider a LISA-like tetrahedron formation (with one of vehicles being on the reference orbit), and the fourth vehicle completing a regular tetrahedron."
@@luminiferous1960 LISA looks a bit different in that the three composite craft will orbit the Sun approximately the same distance as the Earth in a rotating triangle that trails the Earth in its orbit. It seems relatively easy to position three craft in roughly the same orbit as the Earth and always keep them the same distance apart from each other, but I think it would be very difficult to add a fourth equidistant craft to the scheme since it would have to be either closer to the Sun than the other three craft or further away, making it quickly drift apart from the other three.
It seems like the GDEM paper addresses this issue by placing the four craft in elliptical heliocentric orbits that keep them in the same tetrahedral configuration but perhaps not necessarily always the same distance apart. Also the distance between the LISA craft will be 2.5 million kilometers, while the GDEM craft will typically only be about a thousand kilometers apart. LISA isn't planned to launch until 2035, but hopefully GDEM can launch sooner than this.
@@victorkrawchuk9141 Thank you so much for this information on how GDEM and LISA differ.
Measuring dark matter /energy physically is as hard as measuring the 5th element, aether, one of Newton's favorites.
@@Anton-tf9iw Isn't Aether a favorite topic of Flat-Earthers? Unlike them, real scientists can't blame the lack of success in isolating Dark Matter on a deep-state conspiracy. They have to actually do real work to obtain the evidence they need, even if they never get it.
I thought MOND and these other hypotheses were competitor theories for dark matter rather than dark energy, so this video is surprising to me.
That's right, MOND is a dark matter alternative. But MOND has an arbitrary interpolation function you can't really make a prediction for the solar system from it. This is why I didn't want to stress the point. I just wanted to mention that modified versions of gravity all need to have this feature of effects going away nearby.
"competitor hypotheses" not "competitor theories" is the correct terminology. "Theories" have been thoroughly tested over a long period of time back up by independently verifiable evidence. Hypotheses are educated predictions backed up by little evidence which must be tested.
@@douglaswilkinson5700 "educated" -- I marvel at your optimism.
Finding deviation from Einstein's equation can lead to equation that models expansion of the universe which matches observations and solve Dark Energy. Detecting a passing WIMP through sudden increase of gravity in "empty" space is current defending champion of Dark Matter explanations.
Ability to keep such formation in flight precisely enough and long enough to get good measurements will be achievement by itself.
@@douglaswilkinson5700
How about “conjecture” ‽
This is why I follow Sabine - one reason. Her picking up on this proposed new experiment and recognizing the value of the approach (search for raw evidence rather than supporting evidence of any particular speculative theory) is so on point. I share her enthusiasm even at the proposal stage.
The value here meaning it might validate some old research of hers? Lol
@@johnkeck No.. The Value here is that CheatOnlyDeath doesn't understand Science. He likes her er.. "approach".. the "search for raw evidence rather than supporting evidence of any particular speculative theory" Yeah that's not happening. Experiments don't "look for new stuff". Scientific experiment is a test of a hypothesis (That's your colloquial theory before scientific method validation) which is an If Then statement or prediction. There is Nothing New here. Your experiment either validates the hypothesis or the null which is the opposite of the hypothesis. Dark Matter doesn't need looking for unless you look in a Math Paper because as it's Never Observed In Reality you Cannot observe it, (that's step 1 of the scientific method) and it was only created in the mind of Man which cannot ever be observed or tested on in the first place. There is Zero science here. I like Sabine too. She has a lovely voice and is a lovely lady (I'm 56) but she needs to understand science way better than she does.
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
As if we laymen could somehow judge that value 😂 That hubris is really some comedy!
Albert did his best. He had no tetrahedral spacecraft (which the aliens will yawn when they see, thinking we're showing carbon bonding again. _"How many times are those Earthlings going to show us that? Do they think they're special or something? We already played that record album they sent out after searching every museum in the quadrant for a player. It's like watching termites."_ ).
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
Possible to combine the LISA gravity wave detector with this idea by adding a 4th LISA space craft?
I could've bet that when Sabine said the phone will ring when a gravitino comes by, Elon would call, telling her that he will send up three more of his Tesla's into outer space to make his own dark-matter experiment
There's a strong assumption in measuring distances in deep space using spaceships: that the noise in measurement is an error in a Gaussian distribution. Consider, there is solar radiation, small deviations on how the spacecraft trajectory is measured, non-linear vibrations from the motor of the spacecraft, etc. In order to measure the distance between spacecraft, there has to be a filtering mechanism that depends upon that the noise is Gaussian and therefore, an averaging method -- say, a Fourier transform -- can distinguish between the measurement distance and the noise.
I know almost nothing about spacecraft. I don't know if this is a trivial concern or it's an unknown that's going to prevent a successful experiment. But, if the noise is non-linear, there won't be a way to distinguish between a measurement error and noise.
If you measure noise, you have a result already. Scientists can then try to explain what they're seeing.
Yeah. I always get concerned when they publish about precise measurements and calculations and don't give enough details on apparatus and sensitivity...
@@tehbonehead After I posted the comment, I read most of the paper. On the 3rd page (I think) the authors discuss this. It states that they "assume" (their word) this problem can be easily solved.
This looks a lot like a gravity waves detector. If we measure often enough, we could use it for gravity waves detecting. That's would be a faster changing component. Then, the slower changing component would be used for gravity field testing.
I hope it would be possible to kill two birds with one stone. (I don't hate birds, though)
looks like GW's are background noise, but this explanation was too brief to know. From Nobel to Noise in 9 years.
Let's move it one more step further: Make the probes able to detect GWs, add an IR telescope to one of them and add two extra pieces to the fleet for increased precision and redundancy. Now give them escape velocity to leave the solar system. Their combined antenna array would make a perfect radio telescope and also allow communicating with earth from huge distances.
I do love watching your stuff. Very informative with just the right peppering of dry humor. Thank you for being dissatisfied with the academic career world because it sent you on a path that has made our every-day world much richer!
"Well, the problem is we canxt directly interact with it."
"I know, how about we directly interact with it!?"
"BRILLIANT!"
Looks like a promising experiment.
Loved the phone joke.
Priceless content! love you!
Thanks for spotting and reviewing this article, really appreciated! The idea of formations of several drag-compensated spacecraft to perform gravitational experiments is not new. I worked (in a previous working life) on Lisa Pathfinder (technology demonstrator for LISA) and I remember various configurations were assessed for LISA (Laser Interferometer Space Antenna, aiming to measure gravitation waves), besides the triangle which is current baseline. Among these was a tetrahedron like this one, and even a double tetrahedron (two tetrahedra located at different Langrange points, L4 and L5, if I remember well).
But, indeed, the idea of using this concept for dark matter investigation, instead of "boring" gravitational waves measurement, is exciting. Also, the spacecrafts would fly much closer (~1000 km in this case, 2.5 million km for LISA) but in highly elliptical orbits, making the tetrahedron expand and collapse, in a sort of dance while revolving around the Sun... So cute!
Maybe it's time for me to go back to some good old rocket science...
So... A ligo in space that will find more gravitational waves and then call them dark influence😅
I guess you could differentiate waves from 'stuff' by the broad directional 'bounce' at lightspeed through the sensor grid vs a gradual drift, maybe? Still, seems like it would be very difficult to differentiate that from passing through conventional matter or influences from the variety of bombardments that escalate the further you get from protective fields of massive objects.
Gravitational waves are temporary while dark energy is accumulative. It's like differentiating between waves in an ocean and oceanic drift.
Actually, that will be the LISA mission fron ESA, that It will be launched sometime in the next decade. This proposal IS interesting, but IS in the phase "Hey, we could do this..."
In line with @VukLazarMusic I'd expect that the proposed analysis consists of discriminating periodicity from 'smooth' transitions. Assuming spacetime is flat a gravitational wave presents itself...well as a wave...while this experiment tries to study gravitational discrepencies over "large" distances of smooth space. If there's periodicity in gravity over distance then that wouldn't make sense (to me) so I assume they will take care of it. That said, I totally share the feeling behind your remark and it's justified in my opinion. So far all these dark matter studies have resulted in nothing substantial and the answer is always along the lines of some other proposed 'dark' mechanism or particle which cannot be detected directly. The dark matter discipline of cosmology is so fringy in origin and its scientific thinking, I can certainly relate to your joke.
LIGO is space is LISA, and I think SIM for a while. Idk, it's been around since the 90's.
Thank you, Sabine. ❤
Thank you for the video.
The fly in the ointment I think is that dark matter interacts so weakly with regular matter. The measurements would have to be more precise than I think can be done.
but it doesn't intactly weakly w.r.t to gravity...it's dominant over us and our baryonic lives.
LIGO is able to measure the distance between its mirrors to an accuracy of 1/10,000th the width of a proton. That's equivalent to measuring the distance to Proxima Centauri (4.2 light years away) to an accuracy smaller than the width of a human hair. I should think that this experiment will have a similar accuracy. And if it fails to detect anything it will at least narrow down the scope of competing hypotheses.
@DrDeuteron You say this as if gravity were some ethereal wave devoid of a relationship to mass. If something reacts to gravity, then it reacts to the mass involved with that gravity. And in this case if something doesn't react very strongly to another mass, it then doesn't react any more strongly to the gravity of those other masses.
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
What you are proposing here is what we already have proposed with LIGO in space, because they were supposed to set up two different different experiments at right angles.
The only true difference would be if you send these spaceships on elliptical orbits around the sun that would take them inside of mercury orbit, and then out to Jupiter or Neptune.
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
Thanks for tackling all these wonderful topics and presenting them in an engaging manner! I wonder if you would be interested in giving a talk on the laws of thermodynamics, enthalpy, entropy, and Gibbs free energy.
looking forward to read your telephone paper on Nature.
"yes you can" the funniest joke in the Sabine canon 😂😂
Really interesting experiment indeed, Sabine! Thanks! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Just watched Demolition Man...Stay Safe John Spartan.
@@DrDeuteron ok... I guess.
Sabine Hossenfelder, I subscribed because your videos are super cool!
I think more than 4 should be used to account for the possibility of fractal dimensional spacetime. The more the better. Cheap minisats could work
Wow 😮 that could be interpreted a couple of different ways.
LISA is planned to have three satellites that measures via laser the precise distance to measure the gravitational waves, maybe extending that detector with a satellite more can allow not only detect GW on the LISA plane but also those micro differences in the gravitational field that this tetrahedron detector is supposed to see (and can be a feasible extension to have even more precision on the LISA detector).
Just a brainstorm!
I’m expecting that paper Sabine
This idea of a screening mechanism is interesting to me. Are there any other physical examples of similar screening mechanisms that we know of?
What is the distance between the vertices of the tetrahedron? Meters? Kilometers?
She answered the question above, it´s about one thousand kilometers,not much in the solarsystem
@@Thomas-gk42
Copy. I missed it.
2:58 I like how they fake the protection onto itself in a lot of scenes, like there's mirrors everywhere.
Oddly enough, that phone does put an upper bound on the gravitino flux passing thru it: it must be less than what would be required to gravitationally pull the hammer into the bell.
This sounds a lot like gravitational waves detection, where the smallest vibrations matter. It would be very really difficult to stabilize 4 moving spacecrafts relative to each other.
Could you make a video on how hypotheses not involving dark matter explains the gravitational lensing results typically attributed to dark matter?
That seems to be the strongest indicator for there being an invisible matter-like thing interacting with gravity and I've often heard that MOND and other modified gravity theories can't account for that, although I wouldn't expect that to actually be the case since no serious scientist would keep on working on those lines of research if they had such a massive flaw.
I think what creates all these illusions is time... we see galaxies spinning too fast than they should... because their time is different... they live in a faster world... for us... our watch sees all this quickly..... like flies that we can't hit, because they see us in slow motion
Wow, four vintage Cowlifter Mk2 saucers, one of the first mass-produced counterspin models! How exciting!
Direction and plan gets my stamp of approval.🤣
I love your sense of humor.
You make me smile and laugh while learning. Thank you
Dear Sabine, will the precision of the measurements be of the same order as in the case of Ligo? So with corrections for the different gravitational effects of the planets and the Sun on individual ships, and also from one ship to another (third and fourth) and the pressure of the solar wind? - Is the entire project realistic due to the multitude of disturbing factors in space?
Finally 🎉with love from wales 🏴
Nice subject. I would have appreciate more technical details about the spaceships, the distance between them, the direction they will go, the release date, or simply the name of this project :-)
then read the paper
The search for gravitational waves started back in the late 1960's. It only took 50+ years to build equipment sensitive enough to find them. Take a guess on how many years before this new experiment will succeed.
Ignoring the transportation problem for a moment, such a detector in space is much easier to get right. Because all the earthly noises aren't there. Like earthquakes, trucks, weather, visitors stamping their foot on the floor, ...
Two thoughts: could you do this by landing something with a retroreflector on three (or more) solid bodies? We have one on the moon already. We could target Mars, an asteroid, or any stable moon. The cross-links would probably be too hard and visibility would be tricky, but they'd be stable and you could directly compare specific position measurements with GR and MOND predictions.
Also, this sounds a lot like LISA the space based gravitational wave observatory in space. This would need another satellite (I believe that only has two). You'd probably want them on three orthogonal axes vs in a tetrahedron, but that should just change the math a bit and not interfere with the science. It's always easier to justify the funding if you can satisfy multiple objectives.
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
Would 4 satellites, equipped with LIGO capabilities make a good gravitational wave detector?
Sabine gets better and better !!
I have been told that heated things have more mass than cold things? Well then, since the majority of matter in the universe is in a plasma state, dark matter might be either heated space/time or a temperature fluxed Higgs field? Either way, would isolating matter from the Higgs field create a hot or cold condition? I'll say that it would create a cold condition, somewhat akin to evaporation. Re-introducing said matter, incrementally, back and forth into the Higgs field would regulate gravity's effects thus making a thing lighter or heavier as it is manipulated in and out of the field. Also, as matter "falls" toward mass, might the movement of matter in and out of the Higgs field be used as a type of locomotion? Zoooom!
Our conventional understanding of space may require reexamination due to inherent limitations in human cognitive processes, particularly in interpreting non-existence or "negative" constructs. The human brain struggles with concepts that are fundamentally void or absent, such as the instruction to not think about a specific object, like a blue ball, or to avoid an action, like licking a frozen lamp post. This cognitive challenge extends to understanding spatial dimensions.
If we consider the vacuum between celestial bodies-take, for example, the region between Earth and the Moon-it raises the question: if there is "nothing" in that intermediate space, does the concept of distance even apply? Our perceptual and cognitive limitations might be misleading us in understanding true spatial relationships and the nature of "empty" space. Thus, it is plausible that our current theories about space and distance might need rethinking to accommodate a framework that aligns more closely with these cognitive phenomena.
I am not sure how four space craft can do this.
Is each space craft producing a different color light and the other space craft is reflecting it back to the original’s sensor?
Can spacecraft be so precisely aligned in space?
How do the spacecraft calculate the distance from the sun and other big objects?
Does there need to be another laser on earth or the moon?
How is mass measured if they use propellant?
Hi Sabine. How far from each other do these four spacecrafts need to be? Woul it possible to add some more instruments on that spacecrafts, that mesure other things, that may answer open questions, or even form a kind of telecope like that earth bound telescope-arrays, that made it possible to get fotos form black holes. Or that those spacecrafts also look for gavtiatation waves? I`m asking because you have to sell this idea to get founded. And if those spacecrafts could be a multi purpose system, it think it would sell better.
Why launch only 4... if one fails to function perfectly then it won't work. Would be better to launch like 6+
We already found something when the Voyagers found far, far more magnetic field variation than ever predicted after the heliopause.
Graviton-based phone calls ought to be possible, you just need a supply of black hole pairs to merge at timed intervals, and a really sensitive phone to receive the signals.
The "shut up" sent me 😅😂
Watch it turn out to be something simple like, in the absence of matter space time expands. Space time simply pushes space time, but we can never really measure that since we typically need matter as a reference for measurements.
Occam’s razor approach, i like it, but if you presented that to academia… “you’re getting too close you need to go”
What if the deviations are smaller than the system can measure? On a Universe scale the deviations could be minutely small and only count in the absolute aggregate. Plus there is always the plus or minus factor in any measurement system. The deviation could be contained within the accuracy of the measuring system.
that's how all measurements in physics work. you figure out the precision of your measurement system and if you don't detect an effect you can only say that the effect (probably) does not exist at the scale you can measure, not that the effect doesnt exist at all. same reason we need bigger and bigger particle colliders. so to actually answer your question, some people would move on to a different theory and some people would go back to the theory, tweak it to predict an effect below the measurement scale, and then say we need to send out more spaceships with more precise instruments (or to fly in a larger pattern, or more than 4 spaceships at once, etc.)
With gravitational influences permeating space, how would you maintain a tetrahedral relationship of the detectors. And how would you tell the difference between dark matter and gravitational influences?
Looking forward to the phone gravitino paper!
Is there a pre print for the phone paper available?
Sabine please do a video on Dr. Turok’s work!!
I wish they would fly a sensor away from Earth and check to see if the Casimir force is noticeably different than here on Earth. Seems like that would be interesting to know about the quantum vacuum.
We're currently testing our Kinetic Mixing Detector.
To date we've only managed to detect your phone. Please move Abert 1.07 meters from the device.
Thank you.
A gross oversimplification I know, but the experiment immediately made me think of the Michelson-Morley Experiment, seeking to detect and measure the hypothesized ether. Einstein, as I recall, was influenced by their results in formulating Special Relativity.
She nailed a perfect ending. What a natural talent!
Imagine trying to measure the pressure of the air in the room using a differential against a floor of bubbles also in the room, not realizing the bubbles also contained air as well.
The answers may be hiding in plain sight underneath what we already know, we’ve just unwittingly taken certain things for granted enough to not bridge the connection🤔…
Chameleon circuit! Doctor Who has that on his Tardis. Now I'm beginning to understand this 'dark' stuff -- it's like Time Lord engineering.
such an interesting question
The tetrad if configured by masses of the spacecraft and distances should have a center of gravity somewhere in the volume. I would think that each craft would have a clocking mechanism as well to look for deviation. I'm not sure if the interpretation would mean much other than spacetime points exhibit extremely slightly different values.
You don't need anything if the gravity waves themselves can produce nodes and anti-nodes, it's just ripples in the fabric of space itself displacing everything contained in the surrounding medium. It's like expecting something else to be causing ripples in a bucket while the water still hasn't settled from sloshing about.
A space array is the obvious next step for large scale detection.
A question for Sabine: Given that the differential equations of quantum mechanics are linear and the equations of general relativity are nonlinear, what can be said, if anything, about the differential equations of quantum gravity?
If you are inside of a differential you cant measure something you are inside of. Try getting a pressure reading standing inside of a pressure differential or vessel using an instrument, you can not get a true or real reading. You may can observe the gases and concentrations but to know the true and real measure you will have to be outside the differential using a gauge.
Put in for a research grant to develop and test the phone gravitino detector ;)
>
Ok, on a more serious note. Do flying saucers offer a more accurate result over triangular space craft/detectors?
I'll keep my eyes open for it as well. I'll let you all know if I see it 🥰
Wouldn't a gravity wave also alter the scale of whatever is being used to measure distance, effectively disguising the effect of the wave?
The Galaxy Lamp is only available with an American standard plug and works with a Voltage of 120 Volts. If you apply 230 Volts you can simulate the Big Bang
Looks quite a lot like LISA. Then, since LISA plane stays the same on its orbit around the sun, wouldn't it relax the requirement to have tetrahedral configuration? Can't one just average data over a year of LISA observations instead, since the dark matter distribution should not change?
I don’t know much but I consider if background gravitational waves would be a form of “noise”. What would be the expected signal to noise ratio? The laser “links” between the ships could be in the form of (a few) interferometers.
You need 4 points for a specific 3d configuration in time (for example now). The same reason you need 4 GPS satellites to find your position
Exactly, and for the same reason, a table with three legs can´t wabble.
Wouldn't you only need 3 satellites since you're the 4th point?
Minimum 3 sat. for gps.
The more, the better
The tetrahedron is self dual.
The cube is dual to the octahedron.
The dodecahedron is dual to the icosahedron -- Platonic solids.
Energy is dual to mass -- Einstein.
Dark energy is dual to dark matter.
Vectors (contravariant) are dual to to co vectors (covariant) -- dual bases or Riemann curvature is dual!
Positive curvature (dark matter) is dual to negative curvature (dark energy) -- Gauss or Riemann geometry.
Dark energy or repulsive gravity is negative curvature or hyperbolic space (inflation) -- divergent.
Gravitation is equivalent or dual (isomorphic) to acceleration -- Einstein's happiest thought, the principle of equivalence (duality).
Curvature or gravitation is dual hence dark energy is dual!
"Always two there are" -- Yoda.
Very interesting idea but one thing can spoils project ,- gravitational waves if they exists according LIGO ?
Hi Sabina, About 6 years ago, when I spoke with Joe Silk, he said that observationally, there are at least "more than a dozen" clusters or galaxies that have no dark matter in them. Similarly, a couple of months ago when I spoke with Mike Shara, he said "There are a half dozen dark matter galaxies," i.e. less than 100 stars staying together in the presence of (inferred) dark matter for long durations of time. Doesn't this mean that changing GR wouldn't allow these observations?
Good luck on your Gravitino Nature submission...!
Sending you lots of good wishes and gravatinos. 😂
if I'm not wrong, that large array of laser beams has been firt designed to detect ultra - low gravitational waves (under 1 Herz in frequency)
If the deviation isn't interpolating but only happens after a certain threshold is achieved, that would actually be a much more puzzling and therefore interesting result. But could well be explainable considering that the quantum world behaves in a similar way.
Isn't the tetrahedron a 3D gravitational wave observatory? Perhaps the LISA space-based GW observatory could be a precursor/pathfinder. I am reminded that a pathfinder for the James Webb telescope (the NGST Pathfinder) was in the initial project plan but scuttled to save costs. How did that work out?
I guess my question regarding any expensive experiment is to ask what sorts of steps they are taking to check their assumptions -- is there any robust mechanism to deal with the possibility that a previously unexpected phenomenon is causing the current observations? Like, I dunno, just as a random and probably ignorant thought, perhaps space itself is 'textured' independent of mass?
A fun second step for this experiment could be putting a fourth ship in the middle and a new set of lasers to measure distances to it. Changing the masses of the ships would be cool too.
Thanks!
I like those protector toys. I want to know how many times I can get hit in the eye with a green laser before it it starts damaging my retinas :)
How do the four spacecraft maintain there spacing? Normally I would expect that they would measure distances and correct but since that is what we are measuring I do not understand how the spacing is maintained. What am I missing?
Sound like bonus goal for the LISA gravity wave detector
these instruments could be added to any number of future interplanetary probes thus inexpensively forming a grid larger even than four and no need for specialized craft
Well, as we've learned from Ranga Diaz's example, Nature would be the right place to publish about your phone not detecting Gravitinos. They'd assuredly print that paper, no questions asked.
If we assume that >99% of stuff is dark, can we evaluate where it is interacting more based on the way that non-dark stuff misbehaves? ie, along galactic radii
Very interesting experiment, who knows what previously unknown gravitational anomalies might be discovered. Even a negative result would be interesting in its own way.
superfluid dark matter...? Ticks a lot of boxes. Topologicaltastic.
With something like this you have to mention how well gravity has already been measured with Mercury and other solar system bodies as well as Pioneer/Voyager/other deep space probes. For example we have gravity down to x significant digits just using what we know of the solar system, but this experiment will add another three digits and that is enough to find some of these anomalies.