Imo the best video on the channel so far. Those are very well thought out suggestions, I hope the devs implement at least some of them. Great analytical work.
I quite like this video. These suggestions seem pretty well thought out and adhere to the overall design of the characters. Especially with the suggestion for Certus. The suppression trait really fits his concealed sniper motif and you didn't resort to the _"just make him a Sarquael"_ suggestion I occasionally see on forums. ^^ I especially appreciate your point about that these changes weren't meant to make these characters META competitive, just more effective in their intended role.
For angrax I just have a small idea, something that is usually completely forgotten by even the most veteran players of this game: he needs tyranid adrenal glands. It makes hormagaunts gain +1 movement if they would reach an enemy that way, Snappawrecka had it on his active before rework. Angrax is slow but rapid assault feels not fitting for him and very generic, the adrenal gland effect would make it so he'd get frenzied when just out of normal range and could suddenly gain a bit of speed to attack or change target and it would counter his biggest weakness, being outmaneouvered.
@@peterusmc20 yeah, not like he does too much damage either but it would make it very dangerous to constantly have to trigger his passive or be stuck with him for a few rounds.
How I would fix Certus: Movement range 3, normal ranged attacks do Heavy damage, his Mortis Round active ability does Piercing damage, and his Camo Cloak passive ability has a flat incoming ranged attack damage reduction with an additional incoming ranged attack damage reduction whenever the number of incoming ranged attack hits is reduced for any reason. If all of those changes would make him OP with his current stats, then he can get a stat adjustment accordingly.
There's a noticeable lack of Pestillian, Thutmose and Thaumachus in the video. :( Man, we need a fourth meta team focused around chaos characters, with a reworked Abaddon and Azkor making it viable
How I’d change Mephiston’s The Quickening active ability: The range is 3 hexes instead of 2, the damage of the normal attack that both he and the friendly unit who switched places do afterwards is increased by a certain amount (not capped at 100% of their normal attack damage), and when the targeted friendly unit is another Blood Angel, both Mephiston and that friendly Blood Angel have their normal attack damage afterwards increased by a further extra amount.
Also, I think there's something to be said for how other games handle this: Make the game modes actually different enough that the same characters aren't good for everything. Looking at you, Ragnar. Other gotchas have modes like "all one faction dungeon" .
Certus - Suppression & deals more damage to big targets & vehicles. Those rounds are supposed to punch through armoured vehicles like butter. This also benefits Volk too. Incisus - yes your thoughts are right. Double the heals on space marine units though with the passive too. Creed - Summons Vox Casters who can immediately summon & call the barrage. That’s also his passive so like Sho’syl, he will summon a Vox Caster into a free hex within range 2 and removes the one with the lowest health. Volk - Daemons should swap the damage reduction to 50% chance of 25% of the damage stat and reduce his hits to 5 and boost his damage stat. Allow his active to benefit from his passive like Maugan Ra. Abaddon & CALGAR should get the damage buffs to themselves. I considered Abaddon increasing the damage for non-black legion chaos and giving the guaranteed extra hit to all black legion. So Angrax & Haarken get 5 hits guaranteed in onslaught. Massively changing both characters. Angrax is buffed by Abaddon changes mentioned. Shadowsun - stop her summoning that useless drone and instead make her able to go invisible each turn like those blasted Tyranid warriors you can’t damage for a turn. Deathleaper - I’m happy with what’s been said. If an enemy doesn’t die they get poisoned (-1 movement and loses 20% HP each turn for 2 turns) Vitruvius - just useless. Add 1x direct damage to all allies that have been repaired up to 3 hits. Would make every mech unit bloody terrifying. Similar to Snappa active. Thoread - should get unkillable for 2 turns when 2 characters have died and taunts all adjacent enemies. Passive is great How have you forgotten floating Dildo? Thutmose - he should be another summoner but summon pylons or a similar style construct. It boosts the range of ranged attacks and increases the heal % the necrons can heal each turn up to 40% making them nasty in guild wars if you leave the constructs on the field
I think incisus being tied to overkill damage alone is a really bad choice. my favourite example is when an enemy who would kill your character barely has a bad damage roll and your hero survives, then the next of those same enemies shoots your character and easily overkills them. if instead it was slightly reworked to something like always reviving at 90% chance and then subtracting the overkill damage (not the mechanic just what was extra after he got killed) from the healing amount then we could still have characters be overkilled but also he would become so much more useful immediately.
IMHO the fix will be to make comps outside of multi hit/ neuro / mech. Eg make askor super buff evisceration damage. Add a non-BT that buffs sungle hit dsmsge, etc. a buffer that helps with physical pen,etc.
Volk probably would gain a lot of becoming more like maugan ra, I like your idea of giving his passive a 100% chance but maybe it could be more like 30-50% except when he stands still, also he should get the heavy weapon trait. This way he would also be very deadly when he can set up while not having to nerf his passive bonus too much to not make him a huge threat all the time.
One Charachter that i think really needs a rework/buff is Typhus. As far as legendaries go he easily is grouped up with Creed and Abbadon (not as bad as abbadon ofc) but he just does so little, and in comparison to the other 2 Chaos Champion Charachters in the game i just think hes very underwhelming. He should have some kind of mechanic that builds on and improves the contagion aura like maybe adding his direct damage to all enemies within DG Aura or something at least, and id personally be pretty happy if they made him actually be capable of holding his own in combat. Even though hes anky he just cannot dish out any meaningful damage
I disagree Typhus' Active is very strong agaist groupoed enemies. he kills my team in arean regularly smh. hes like the only useful deathguard besides maladus. He isnt meta but hes far for trash tier
For your volk buff i honestly don't really vibe with it, it's basically just a buff to his damage and peirce stats, yes, its better, but i would rather he gets the passive's buff into his stats and perhaps get a new passive For abaddon I'm not really into having multiple characters with the exact same ability, i feel that a change to the self damage from the active is needed, and his passive needs a whole rework, maybe something like njal's passive for chaos where the more chaos you have grouped up the stronger everyone including abaddon is? Asmodai I'd just love having him be able to take a turn after using his active, the suppression triggering regardless of chaos or not, and maybe a way to reliably trigger his passive damage buff on guild bosses maybe being on higher ground There's also many other characters like thau haarken thut and kut that you didn't touch on, would be fabulous if we could get a part 2
Most of these units are "old" and by that I mean, it's really easy to see the progression in complexity from the game's launch to today. Of course, complexity doesn't equal power, as Asmodai proves, but it's certainly a component. Much like the Orks (for which I STILL wish to see a Painboy or Weirdboy) getting reworked involved only minor changes for some, it should only need minor changes for these and a few more to bring them up to snuff.
volk is an obliterator, giving him terminator would make sense and angrax passive should work additively with his attack, just lower the passive and voila you got a much better scaling
Funny. 3 of the characters in this video form my best GW team. Creed, Incisus and Thoread plus Godswyl and Burchard are my best team. Tho gives damage reduction and more hits to the others, Incisus becomes a damage monster with that plus he can heal the whole team. creed is hard to kill with his kell companion and his guardsmen really help to confuse the AI. B +G do the rest. Its an insanely good team! i dont think they need to be buffed. Although i do like the idea of Creed spawning guardsmen
I disagree on all of them, most don't even fix the character's issue, and others are for characters that don't even need fixing I do like Creed's idea though, that's the only one I'd like to see implemented
I dislike a number of these changes because I don't think they address the fundamental issues behind the units and instead just removes some of the identity from their mechanics to make them easier to use but not necessarily more effective which I dislike. I think they should be hard to use but very effective.
Insicus is an unfairly pooped on character. For onslaught (a primary source of badges & legendary orbs) put him in a battle ball with Isabella & if you choose the rest carefully you can end up only using 5-8 characters. I & I’s skills complement each other Is makes it harder to kill units unless they are 1-shots but say that fails the rez em In oh no I got the 10% miss next turn Is brings em back to life w/ In healing em up before the can b attacked. I seriously disagree the he sucks. So by all means don’t use em cause that other guy you didn’t want cluttering up the map lol
Ufff, I don't think that the ancient thor dos nothing, he is really good in pvp, the people just don't know what his active do I think and just run to attack doing no damage, it's replay fun, especially against the pvp meta
But that's ONLY with mechanical units. So necrons and ad-mech (and a fiew others) i just dont see it as very good. May that's just because I'm lower level.
the “rho team” (mechanical team) creates a resource loop between tangida, actus, and exitor rho that generates a lot of hits. with eldryon it does a lot of damage. I should have a video on the channel about this.
@DraupnirWhatitdo oh you were talking about a specific list. That makes more sense. Another thing. I currently have a multi-player list with: Toth, deathleaper, varro tigurius, eldryon, and archimatos. I'm surprised that I don't hear about any lists like it because it's usually able to win a game in 2-3 turns, and I'm forcing it to punch way above its own weight class.
Imo the best video on the channel so far. Those are very well thought out suggestions, I hope the devs implement at least some of them. Great analytical work.
"We don't have an ugly character.."
:laughs in Castelan Creed:
Tiny fast fat man is great. He just need to do something. Guy is a general and runs around shooting with his pistol.
I quite like this video.
These suggestions seem pretty well thought out and adhere to the overall design of the characters.
Especially with the suggestion for Certus.
The suppression trait really fits his concealed sniper motif and you didn't resort to the _"just make him a Sarquael"_ suggestion I occasionally see on forums. ^^
I especially appreciate your point about that these changes weren't meant to make these characters META competitive, just more effective in their intended role.
For angrax I just have a small idea, something that is usually completely forgotten by even the most veteran players of this game: he needs tyranid adrenal glands. It makes hormagaunts gain +1 movement if they would reach an enemy that way, Snappawrecka had it on his active before rework. Angrax is slow but rapid assault feels not fitting for him and very generic, the adrenal gland effect would make it so he'd get frenzied when just out of normal range and could suddenly gain a bit of speed to attack or change target and it would counter his biggest weakness, being outmaneouvered.
I like this, in combination with the terminator buff thus would make him wayyy better in TA
@@peterusmc20 yeah, not like he does too much damage either but it would make it very dangerous to constantly have to trigger his passive or be stuck with him for a few rounds.
I've always thought Certus should have the same ability that Eliminators have in the tabletop: After shooting, Certus may move 1 hex.
I still can't get over the fact that Volk a freaking PILE OF MUSCLE is so fragile
Squishy Chaos dread just Sounds so wrong
I guess all his muscles are cramping.
Interesting video!
Pestillion: his aktiv is now for melee and passiv for ranged.
Change both to melee and ranged. It's not much but it's honest work.
I pulled a Neurothrope! Life is good!
How I would fix Certus: Movement range 3, normal ranged attacks do Heavy damage, his Mortis Round active ability does Piercing damage, and his Camo Cloak passive ability has a flat incoming ranged attack damage reduction with an additional incoming ranged attack damage reduction whenever the number of incoming ranged attack hits is reduced for any reason. If all of those changes would make him OP with his current stats, then he can get a stat adjustment accordingly.
Another option would be to add to his passive, that he forces the target backwards a hex. That should slow them down.
"Next up Vitrivus"
*Puts up a picture of Vitruvius*
There's a noticeable lack of Pestillian, Thutmose and Thaumachus in the video. :(
Man, we need a fourth meta team focused around chaos characters, with a reworked Abaddon and Azkor making it viable
Makhotep also needs help. He hardly does any damage.
You forgot Mephiston
How I’d change Mephiston’s The Quickening active ability: The range is 3 hexes instead of 2, the damage of the normal attack that both he and the friendly unit who switched places do afterwards is increased by a certain amount (not capped at 100% of their normal attack damage), and when the targeted friendly unit is another Blood Angel, both Mephiston and that friendly Blood Angel have their normal attack damage afterwards increased by a further extra amount.
Also, I think there's something to be said for how other games handle this: Make the game modes actually different enough that the same characters aren't good for everything. Looking at you, Ragnar.
Other gotchas have modes like "all one faction dungeon" .
Certus - Suppression & deals more damage to big targets & vehicles.
Those rounds are supposed to punch through armoured vehicles like butter.
This also benefits Volk too.
Incisus - yes your thoughts are right. Double the heals on space marine units though with the passive too.
Creed - Summons Vox Casters who can immediately summon & call the barrage. That’s also his passive so like Sho’syl, he will summon a Vox Caster into a free hex within range 2 and removes the one with the lowest health.
Volk - Daemons should swap the damage reduction to 50% chance of 25% of the damage stat and reduce his hits to 5 and boost his damage stat.
Allow his active to benefit from his passive like Maugan Ra.
Abaddon & CALGAR should get the damage buffs to themselves. I considered Abaddon increasing the damage for non-black legion chaos and giving the guaranteed extra hit to all black legion.
So Angrax & Haarken get 5 hits guaranteed in onslaught. Massively changing both characters.
Angrax is buffed by Abaddon changes mentioned.
Shadowsun - stop her summoning that useless drone and instead make her able to go invisible each turn like those blasted Tyranid warriors you can’t damage for a turn.
Deathleaper - I’m happy with what’s been said. If an enemy doesn’t die they get poisoned (-1 movement and loses 20% HP each turn for 2 turns)
Vitruvius - just useless. Add 1x direct damage to all allies that have been repaired up to 3 hits.
Would make every mech unit bloody terrifying. Similar to Snappa active.
Thoread - should get unkillable for 2 turns when 2 characters have died and taunts all adjacent enemies. Passive is great
How have you forgotten floating Dildo?
Thutmose - he should be another summoner but summon pylons or a similar style construct.
It boosts the range of ranged attacks and increases the heal % the necrons can heal each turn up to 40% making them nasty in guild wars if you leave the constructs on the field
One Day my Roswitha active will do something..
What do you mean? Her active gives 20% uncapped damage boost for 2 turns. She is meta in neuro teams
10% against inmune trait
@@XxyjmaxX 20% at lvl 50
Here hear!
@@k1ko4444 20% actually at lv46. No need to take further
I think incisus being tied to overkill damage alone is a really bad choice. my favourite example is when an enemy who would kill your character barely has a bad damage roll and your hero survives, then the next of those same enemies shoots your character and easily overkills them. if instead it was slightly reworked to something like always reviving at 90% chance and then subtracting the overkill damage (not the mechanic just what was extra after he got killed) from the healing amount then we could still have characters be overkilled but also he would become so much more useful immediately.
IMHO the fix will be to make comps outside of multi hit/ neuro / mech. Eg make askor super buff evisceration damage. Add a non-BT that buffs sungle hit dsmsge, etc. a buffer that helps with physical pen,etc.
Volk probably would gain a lot of becoming more like maugan ra, I like your idea of giving his passive a 100% chance but maybe it could be more like 30-50% except when he stands still, also he should get the heavy weapon trait. This way he would also be very deadly when he can set up while not having to nerf his passive bonus too much to not make him a huge threat all the time.
One Charachter that i think really needs a rework/buff is Typhus. As far as legendaries go he easily is grouped up with Creed and Abbadon (not as bad as abbadon ofc) but he just does so little, and in comparison to the other 2 Chaos Champion Charachters in the game i just think hes very underwhelming. He should have some kind of mechanic that builds on and improves the contagion aura like maybe adding his direct damage to all enemies within DG Aura or something at least, and id personally be pretty happy if they made him actually be capable of holding his own in combat. Even though hes anky he just cannot dish out any meaningful damage
Yet i forget everytime that Yazha buffs him and brings him into my Battleline 😂
I disagree Typhus' Active is very strong agaist groupoed enemies. he kills my team in arean regularly smh. hes like the only useful deathguard besides maladus. He isnt meta but hes far for trash tier
For your volk buff i honestly don't really vibe with it, it's basically just a buff to his damage and peirce stats, yes, its better, but i would rather he gets the passive's buff into his stats and perhaps get a new passive
For abaddon I'm not really into having multiple characters with the exact same ability, i feel that a change to the self damage from the active is needed, and his passive needs a whole rework, maybe something like njal's passive for chaos where the more chaos you have grouped up the stronger everyone including abaddon is?
Asmodai I'd just love having him be able to take a turn after using his active, the suppression triggering regardless of chaos or not, and maybe a way to reliably trigger his passive damage buff on guild bosses maybe being on higher ground
There's also many other characters like thau haarken thut and kut that you didn't touch on, would be fabulous if we could get a part 2
Most of these units are "old" and by that I mean, it's really easy to see the progression in complexity from the game's launch to today.
Of course, complexity doesn't equal power, as Asmodai proves, but it's certainly a component.
Much like the Orks (for which I STILL wish to see a Painboy or Weirdboy) getting reworked involved only minor changes for some, it should only need minor changes for these and a few more to bring them up to snuff.
Nice video! What happened to the Battle Sister at the end? Did she got fired?
Forgot to add pestillian and corrodius once he's deployed his summons he's useless after that and his attacks are as weak as a pea shooter.
volk is an obliterator, giving him terminator would make sense and angrax passive should work additively with his attack, just lower the passive and voila you got a much better scaling
Id like if certus shot 4 units range or just make him hit the treadmill and be able to move 3 like a regular "sniper" character.
Funny. 3 of the characters in this video form my best GW team. Creed, Incisus and Thoread plus Godswyl and Burchard are my best team. Tho gives damage reduction and more hits to the others, Incisus becomes a damage monster with that plus he can heal the whole team. creed is hard to kill with his kell companion and his guardsmen really help to confuse the AI. B +G do the rest. Its an insanely good team! i dont think they need to be buffed. Although i do like the idea of Creed spawning guardsmen
I disagree on all of them, most don't even fix the character's issue, and others are for characters that don't even need fixing
I do like Creed's idea though, that's the only one I'd like to see implemented
I dislike a number of these changes because I don't think they address the fundamental issues behind the units and instead just removes some of the identity from their mechanics to make them easier to use but not necessarily more effective which I dislike. I think they should be hard to use but very effective.
Insicus is an unfairly pooped on character. For onslaught (a primary source of badges & legendary orbs) put him in a battle ball with Isabella & if you choose the rest carefully you can end up only using 5-8 characters. I & I’s skills complement each other Is makes it harder to kill units unless they are 1-shots but say that fails the rez em In oh no I got the 10% miss next turn Is brings em back to life w/ In healing em up before the can b attacked. I seriously disagree the he sucks. So by all means don’t use em cause that other guy you didn’t want cluttering up the map lol
Ufff, I don't think that the ancient thor dos nothing, he is really good in pvp, the people just don't know what his active do I think and just run to attack doing no damage, it's replay fun, especially against the pvp meta
#shadowsun_3.0
Personally i dont understand how exitor-rho is in the metta. He doesn't seem that good.
he attacks when everyone else attacks. combined with summons he basically attacks 20times per turn vs bosses
But that's ONLY with mechanical units. So necrons and ad-mech (and a fiew others) i just dont see it as very good. May that's just because I'm lower level.
@@coldstarcommand that setup can do north of 1million damage vs bosses on legendary with a maxed eldryon
the “rho team” (mechanical team) creates a resource loop between tangida, actus, and exitor rho that generates a lot of hits. with eldryon it does a lot of damage. I should have a video on the channel about this.
@DraupnirWhatitdo oh you were talking about a specific list. That makes more sense. Another thing. I currently have a multi-player list with: Toth, deathleaper, varro tigurius, eldryon, and archimatos. I'm surprised that I don't hear about any lists like it because it's usually able to win a game in 2-3 turns, and I'm forcing it to punch way above its own weight class.
first