The video is not about install technique. It’s about selling as much HVAC equipment as possible into a house. Here, owner has to buy a separate radiant heat system, separate cooling condensers, duct for cooling only. All in this is a $50K install, when $20k would do. They might as well have tried sell heat and cool for the backyard.
I'm guessing the "youtubers" you refer to are using a version of the system designed to be installed with nothing but a screwdriver and a wrench. Those require extra refrigerant line to be rolled up because it cannot be shortened. In this system, refrigerant lines are made on site, but require very specialized (and expensive) tools to build and prepare.
The biggest trouble with going with a multi-zone minisplit system is that you no longer have air moving around the house. The air can be the perfect temperature but still feel stuffy. Gotta bring in some fresh air with a HRV/ERV to get the most out of that system. Also, would be a good idea to insulate that intake pipe for the gas heater. The intake air temp during the winter would be enough to cause condensation inside the wall, no bueno.
chase weeks : Great comment and great video for sure, but I also was surprised there was no dedicated fresh air intake in this system. And for anybody ready to bust my balls because of that one 'intake' he describes, that's a combustion air intake; different from a fresh air intake me and @chase weeks are talking about.
@@TrailTrackers, generally I lump the two together. Sometimes I forget that they're really two different products. If you're doing an ERV/HRV, it only makes sense to have the incoming air that is being pre-conditioned come from the outside, but this house could easily have a fresh air intake without either form of recovery ventilator. Would be a lot cheaper, just less efficient
@@chaseweeks2708 : Not sure you understood my comment @chase weeks. I 100% agree with both your comments. When I said "fresh air intake" in my first comment, I did in fact mean via an ERV/HRV; that's best practice in new construction nowadays. Even when upgrading an older building in a remodel, I would never recommend just cutting a hole in the wall for your fresh air intake. Although, in most older homes (pre 2000), they are so leaky it probably equates to a 12" or more hole in the wall. LOL...
It’s amazing the leaps and bounds the hvac industry is making right now. Single phase main unit with multiple mini splits with heat and cooling capabilities with variable flow mini splits. Heat one room while you cool another with a single outside unit.
You can’t heat and cool at the same time with the mini splits they showed. Vrf can do heating and cooling at the same time from the same condenser. You see them in hotels and schools
To expand on concept, the outdoor unit they showed had two refrigerant lines that connect to the indoor eev that distributes to all heads which is the 'multi f' line. It's variable flow refrigerant, but isn't capable of running simultaneously cooling heating. The 'multi v' can have an exact looking outdoor unit but has a third refrigerant line connecting that enables simultaneously heating and cooling. Both are VRF technology.
VRF...systems now for housing.. makes life better for big houses..it can do heat too.. it just needs 3 pipes to the switch boxes not 2. Technology is coming very fast for HVAC. 20+seer too
"Good plumbing should be not seen, not heard" #TrueFact I have a bath above my master bed and the drain pipe comes down one of my master bed walls and it gets annoying sometimes when people flush or drain the tub and you hear it coming down.
It's like Kevin was trying to look as much as possible like Richard in this video. Time to change the watch against an Apple watch if you want to complete the 'This Old Plumber'look, Kevin!
If you were using this type of system (inverter heat pump) with all those zones for heating as well, could you have a humidifier on a system like this?
No, unless the individual air handlers had some type of humidifier in them which may be out there who knows. Otherwise you'd just need to install a sperate humidifier probably for each floor.
No. They derate (provide less heat) at around 40 down to a point that they stop providing any heat at all. That number changes with manufacturer. That number needs to be lower than the extreme temperature day. In western NY that is -15 where design temp is 4. You also need to evaluate gas vs. electric cost. In NY gas is way cheaper.
I have a multi zone Geothermal HVAC heat pump with a 2 speed compressor. All equipment is inside the house. Damper doors in the ducts to each room, and the air handler is infinite speed. I am not understanding why they are over complicating this install with multiple air handlers, especially since everything is wide open right now.
You think this is bad? I know of a small rural school that has at least 4 air handlers _per room_ connected to an oversized geothermal unit. This is how 50000000 of your tax dollars are being spent.
@@803mastiff9 Oh, I've had cast iron in an apartment from the upstairs toilet. They'll still hear every last flush plain as day, it just won't sound like a waterfall inside the wall like it would with PVC.
Cast iron? Where? Radiant heating nowadays uses plastic pipe (PEX) with brass fittings. The LG mini splits are run with copper tubing. The trend is towards induction ranges so no natural gas lines unless a boiler is being used. But being that they are using a heat pump for cooling I would venture to guess they are also using a heat pump for hot water.
Or some outfit might install a plastic soil pipe and simply lag it ... There again in fifty years time the succession of owners might have modified the house out of all recognition anyway.
@@thebigdoghimself check the last 30 seconds where Richard shows the master bedroom toilet pipe transitioning from PVC to Iron to avoid flush sounds to be heard in second or first floor rooms.
Traditional condensing units are NOT limited to 50ft. That is totally wrong. This system is called a VRF system. I would not recommend it for cold climates unless you have a secondary heat source like heated floors etc
Does the installer and manufacturer offer a 5-10 year no questions asked warranty? That seem like a lot of connection points for a leak. No redundancy, the outside unit goes out and the hole system is down. Whatever you save on electricity will only benefit you if this this does not develop any issues. Good luck with that.
Most manufactures offer 5 year parts and 7 year compressor warranties. However, some certified installers offer 12 year warranties on parts and compressor.
Never ever ever put a vrv or vrf system in your house unless absolutely essential. Far better of with a single large high static pressure split ducted unit. Zoned and controlled by a appropriate after market controller like an airtouch 4 or izone.
I want to heat the floor to keep my feet warm and cool the air to keep my head cold. Just like when the AC in the car have been a bit to efficient, I just turn on the heat in the seat. aah.
I have a zoned cooling system in my house and I absolutely HATE it. The house is only 1400 sf and even at 3.5 tons, the air handler doesn't produce enough airflow to deliver adequate cooling to both the first and second floor. If it's only cooling one or the other, it's fine, but I live in Texas where the whole house needs AC.
You're several tons too small. With the solar load in TX, your unit is way undersized. For example my parents in AL, in a 2300sf house, have 10ton and 3 ton units. Zoned cooling is amazing if it's done right.
Load is correct for my area using rule of thumb one ton per 400sf. But most likely other factors involved too. Nevertheless two floors is always a problem with a single unit even with zoning. Even if it is (how many thermostats?).
@@786otto did that...got the standard answer, "it cools to 20 degrees below the outside temperature so it's fine." Translation: "I don't want to work on it."
The cost of installing these systems is out of reach for the average consumer. We priced out a mini split system and it added up to 57k (for a 3200sf home (4800sf inc basement). That'sd a huge aniount of money especially when compared to a standard single gas fired furnace in the basement with an outdoor heat pump at 28k. We settled on a Mitsubishi 4 ton hyper heat outdoor unit powering 2, 2 ton air handlers (one in basement for basement and first floor, one in attic for second floor) and even that came in at 32k. The killer is not the unit cost as most mini split heads cost well under $1000, it's the labor that's a killer.
That is precisely the beauty of the mini split. They've literally been a revolution for people who restore and maintain old houses. Running ducts is an art and requires an in-depth knowledge of fluid dynamics. Any moron with a drill and a keyhole saw can run line sets and hang the tiny air handlers. The only outside labor you need to install a mini split is to have someone pressure check your lines and commission the system. Maybe $1000 on a complex set up. Maybe another $1000 to have someone spec it out for you if you wanted. If you're not into diy and you're not exorbitantly wealthy, old houses are going to be hard for you.
THat is because HVAC guys think they are GOd and want more money then doctors after 8 years of schooling. Most of contractors barely got C- on their high school diploma, and walk around like everybody owes them something. THat is why I try to do everything in my house myself, so I do not have to hire one of those criminals.
You’re wrong as the prices are now really affordable. I went to a home show and Bryant was showcasing that you could install a single base unit and 5 mini splits for $9k. That was enough to heat or cool 4,500sq/ft. Variable flow units as well with independent or slave capabilities.
MrAccordCrx lol, High School grades don’t determine the success of a persons career. It just determines how good they were at universal standardized testing. People like you that talk as if they are superior to others make people who work in the building trades nervous. You know just enough to be dangerous and are insured enough to not be held responsible.
@@RadDadisRad I agree, there are very dumb people that are rich, like some rappers. There are millions that listen and pay for that trash so rappers get rich. Most of the contractors are just criminals. I am very proud that I rewired my own and 2 of my relatives homes from entry cable to the outlets and avoided 2 evils - dealing with criminal contractors and neo-nazi L&I ! Had quotes of app 6-7K per house. Go it done right myself for under 1K. So F...U contractors and F...U nazis from L&I !
I love hearing Richard break down HVAC like this.
How about a video on retrofitting existing hvac systems into 2 or more zones?
That's on Ask This Old House. They already have several videos on it
what a great video, I wish some of the youtubers I was installing systems the wrong way would watch some of these videos.
The video is not about install technique. It’s about selling as much HVAC equipment as possible into a house. Here, owner has to buy a separate radiant heat system, separate cooling condensers, duct for cooling only. All in this is a $50K install, when $20k would do. They might as well have tried sell heat and cool for the backyard.
@@Nill757 heated driveway!!
@@Nill757 Not the ones who install 3 or 4 complete Mr Cools and they could use a single condenser for all 44 head units
I'm guessing the "youtubers" you refer to are using a version of the system designed to be installed with nothing but a screwdriver and a wrench. Those require extra refrigerant line to be rolled up because it cannot be shortened. In this system, refrigerant lines are made on site, but require very specialized (and expensive) tools to build and prepare.
F Maz $$70K total. Heated street!
The biggest trouble with going with a multi-zone minisplit system is that you no longer have air moving around the house. The air can be the perfect temperature but still feel stuffy. Gotta bring in some fresh air with a HRV/ERV to get the most out of that system.
Also, would be a good idea to insulate that intake pipe for the gas heater. The intake air temp during the winter would be enough to cause condensation inside the wall, no bueno.
chase weeks : Great comment and great video for sure, but I also was surprised there was no dedicated fresh air intake in this system.
And for anybody ready to bust my balls because of that one 'intake' he describes, that's a combustion air intake; different from a fresh air intake me and @chase weeks are talking about.
@@TrailTrackers, generally I lump the two together. Sometimes I forget that they're really two different products. If you're doing an ERV/HRV, it only makes sense to have the incoming air that is being pre-conditioned come from the outside, but this house could easily have a fresh air intake without either form of recovery ventilator. Would be a lot cheaper, just less efficient
@@chaseweeks2708 : Not sure you understood my comment @chase weeks. I 100% agree with both your comments. When I said "fresh air intake" in my first comment, I did in fact mean via an ERV/HRV; that's best practice in new construction nowadays.
Even when upgrading an older building in a remodel, I would never recommend just cutting a hole in the wall for your fresh air intake. Although, in most older homes (pre 2000), they are so leaky it probably equates to a 12" or more hole in the wall. LOL...
It’s amazing the leaps and bounds the hvac industry is making right now. Single phase main unit with multiple mini splits with heat and cooling capabilities with variable flow mini splits. Heat one room while you cool another with a single outside unit.
You can’t heat and cool at the same time with the mini splits they showed. Vrf can do heating and cooling at the same time from the same condenser. You see them in hotels and schools
To expand on concept, the outdoor unit they showed had two refrigerant lines that connect to the indoor eev that distributes to all heads which is the 'multi f' line. It's variable flow refrigerant, but isn't capable of running simultaneously cooling heating. The 'multi v' can have an exact looking outdoor unit but has a third refrigerant line connecting that enables simultaneously heating and cooling. Both are VRF technology.
VRF...systems now for housing.. makes life better for big houses..it can do heat too.. it just needs 3 pipes to the switch boxes not 2. Technology is coming very fast for HVAC. 20+seer too
Looks like nice job ,thats the way to do it .
HEAT PUMP!
"Good plumbing should be not seen, not heard" #TrueFact
I have a bath above my master bed and the drain pipe comes down one of my master bed walls and it gets annoying sometimes when people flush or drain the tub and you hear it coming down.
It's like Kevin was trying to look as much as possible like Richard in this video. Time to change the watch against an Apple watch if you want to complete the 'This Old Plumber'look, Kevin!
Incredible
Took me about a minute to realise this wasn't a play on This Old Tony..
If you were using this type of system (inverter heat pump) with all those zones for heating as well, could you have a humidifier on a system like this?
No, unless the individual air handlers had some type of humidifier in them which may be out there who knows. Otherwise you'd just need to install a sperate humidifier probably for each floor.
Are The heat pumps sufficient enough in colder climates for stand alone heating system?
Combine it with solar eletric or/and solar thermal and it can be cost-effective in the long run..
No. They derate (provide less heat) at around 40 down to a point that they stop providing any heat at all. That number changes with manufacturer. That number needs to be lower than the extreme temperature day. In western NY that is -15 where design temp is 4. You also need to evaluate gas vs. electric cost. In NY gas is way cheaper.
I have a multi zone Geothermal HVAC heat pump with a 2 speed compressor. All equipment is inside the house. Damper doors in the ducts to each room, and the air handler is infinite speed. I am not understanding why they are over complicating this install with multiple air handlers, especially since everything is wide open right now.
Bob vila used to fart and say, “who wants to rough-in the air exchange crack?”
The multi zone unit, was that a Mitsubishi? and does it work with those pancake units, or the mini splits?
Probably as that is what they are installing.
All of it was LG - works with pancakes and the mini splits
lg. I've put in 4 of them so far, not too hard
LG and they are the only ones that make the “artwork” unit.
man that many air handlers and that big they don't need condensers they need a small chiller!
You think this is bad? I know of a small rural school that has at least 4 air handlers _per room_ connected to an oversized geothermal unit. This is how 50000000 of your tax dollars are being spent.
50 years from now we'll get to see Steve Lav tearing that wall apart to replace the rotted out leaking cast iron pipe!
But no one will hear the courtesy flush for 50 years.
@@803mastiff9 Oh, I've had cast iron in an apartment from the upstairs toilet. They'll still hear every last flush plain as day, it just won't sound like a waterfall inside the wall like it would with PVC.
Cast iron? Where? Radiant heating nowadays uses plastic pipe (PEX) with brass fittings. The LG mini splits are run with copper tubing. The trend is towards induction ranges so no natural gas lines unless a boiler is being used. But being that they are using a heat pump for cooling I would venture to guess they are also using a heat pump for hot water.
Or some outfit might install a plastic soil pipe and simply lag it ...
There again in fifty years time the succession of owners might have modified the house out of all recognition anyway.
@@thebigdoghimself check the last 30 seconds where Richard shows the master bedroom toilet pipe transitioning from PVC to Iron to avoid flush sounds to be heard in second or first floor rooms.
"Cool!"
This made no sense to me. What, in practical terms, are they trying to accomplish?
sponsored by LG
The LG system shown here is very common in large parts of the world.
Traditional condensing units are NOT limited to 50ft. That is totally wrong.
This system is called a VRF system. I would not recommend it for cold climates unless you have a secondary heat source like heated floors etc
👍
جميل
Does the installer and manufacturer offer a 5-10 year no questions asked warranty? That seem like a lot of connection points for a leak. No redundancy, the outside unit goes out and the hole system is down. Whatever you save on electricity will only benefit you if this this does not develop any issues. Good luck with that.
Most manufactures offer 5 year parts and 7 year compressor warranties. However, some certified installers offer 12 year warranties on parts and compressor.
There's an odd movement against air conditioning this year. It reminds me of the anti salt movement several years ago. Hopefully it dies out
@Muffinmanerino Ealgerino but if someone really wants to pay extra then they should have the ability to chose
Taping over the "LG" 🤣
Never ever ever put a vrv or vrf system in your house unless absolutely essential. Far better of with a single large high static pressure split ducted unit. Zoned and controlled by a appropriate after market controller like an airtouch 4 or izone.
I want to heat the floor to keep my feet warm and cool the air to keep my head cold. Just like when the AC in the car have been a bit to efficient, I just turn on the heat in the seat. aah.
You should be able to
I hate hot face cold feet in the car. Wish I could set it at hot feet cold face in the winter.
1 minute gang
2
crappy lg furnace
the LG artcool is noisy !!!
Multi stories homes are a nightmare for electrical and HVAC. I live in a 30+ year old back split. I may just sell it and buy a bungalow.
Picture frame unit or ceiling mount is the only way to go.
All the others are an eye sore.
VRF works when it's new but 10 years later, here comes the air handler and condenser. VRF junk
I have a zoned cooling system in my house and I absolutely HATE it. The house is only 1400 sf and even at 3.5 tons, the air handler doesn't produce enough airflow to deliver adequate cooling to both the first and second floor. If it's only cooling one or the other, it's fine, but I live in Texas where the whole house needs AC.
You should have somewone check it out .
Load calculations... have it done. Guessing gets you what you have.
You're several tons too small. With the solar load in TX, your unit is way undersized. For example my parents in AL, in a 2300sf house, have 10ton and 3 ton units. Zoned cooling is amazing if it's done right.
Load is correct for my area using rule of thumb one ton per 400sf. But most likely other factors involved too. Nevertheless two floors is always a problem with a single unit even with zoning. Even if it is (how many thermostats?).
@@786otto did that...got the standard answer, "it cools to 20 degrees below the outside temperature so it's fine." Translation: "I don't want to work on it."
Wait a minute.... an LG air handler???????
Yes, LG makes refrigeration. Apparently they also make seeds.
Haha!
Are they in a tree house? I can see daylight through the wood
Kevin farted
The cost of installing these systems is out of reach for the average consumer. We priced out a mini split system and it added up to 57k (for a 3200sf home (4800sf inc basement). That'sd a huge aniount of money especially when compared to a standard single gas fired furnace in the basement with an outdoor heat pump at 28k. We settled on a Mitsubishi 4 ton hyper heat outdoor unit powering 2, 2 ton air handlers (one in basement for basement and first floor, one in attic for second floor) and even that came in at 32k. The killer is not the unit cost as most mini split heads cost well under $1000, it's the labor that's a killer.
That is precisely the beauty of the mini split. They've literally been a revolution for people who restore and maintain old houses. Running ducts is an art and requires an in-depth knowledge of fluid dynamics. Any moron with a drill and a keyhole saw can run line sets and hang the tiny air handlers. The only outside labor you need to install a mini split is to have someone pressure check your lines and commission the system. Maybe $1000 on a complex set up. Maybe another $1000 to have someone spec it out for you if you wanted. If you're not into diy and you're not exorbitantly wealthy, old houses are going to be hard for you.
THat is because HVAC guys think they are GOd and want more money then doctors after 8 years of schooling. Most of contractors barely got C- on their high school diploma, and walk around like everybody owes them something. THat is why I try to do everything in my house myself, so I do not have to hire one of those criminals.
You’re wrong as the prices are now really affordable. I went to a home show and Bryant was showcasing that you could install a single base unit and 5 mini splits for $9k. That was enough to heat or cool 4,500sq/ft. Variable flow units as well with independent or slave capabilities.
MrAccordCrx lol, High School grades don’t determine the success of a persons career. It just determines how good they were at universal standardized testing. People like you that talk as if they are superior to others make people who work in the building trades nervous. You know just enough to be dangerous and are insured enough to not be held responsible.
@@RadDadisRad I agree, there are very dumb people that are rich, like some rappers. There are millions that listen and pay for that trash so rappers get rich. Most of the contractors are just criminals. I am very proud that I rewired my own and 2 of my relatives homes from entry cable to the outlets and avoided 2 evils - dealing with criminal contractors and neo-nazi L&I ! Had quotes of app 6-7K per house. Go it done right myself for under 1K. So F...U contractors and F...U nazis from L&I !