One of Malaysia's largest companies owed us....
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- A sharing of our journey being owed 7-figure debt.
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I'm not a contractor but I do freelance video,3d and design let me tell you my first job I got scam by MoT(ministry of transportation) not a single cent pay and because I did the job on trust there was no contract so I pretty much got screwed, It's really hard for a freelancer like me when I gave the client contract they will try to avoid it or used excuses, and yes lesson learn any client who deny this I will no longer take that job.
Appreciate you for sharing this part of your story.
Hope all is well with you moving forward bro
Not becoz they are cunning, if becoz u are to naive :) school teach technical social teach human being
Why did you do the job without a PO/LO? Even if MOT wanted to pay you, they couldn’t without such documents. I won’t blame the ministry but the guy who dealt with you. Never does a govt job without PO/LO.
My dad who runs his own freelance architectural business warns me of these kinds of horrors in the client service industry. It discourages local businesses to thrive at home where there needs a push for more domestic economic activity, than reliance on MNCs. This all comes down to the all around Corporate Law practice in Msia that's unjust, corrupt and favours those in power/with titles; in essence, to make the rich even richer.
I'm so sorry to hear you're going through this. I wish you and your team the best of luck and hope you guys get compensated fairly for your time and efforts!
Thank you for sharing that man.
I'd also like to see where we could improve ourselves to be more careful when it comes to documenting.
This is the number one reason I didn't follow my family into the architectural or civil engineering industry. As young boy growing up, I have the previlage insight to all the cheating, lying & corrupt practices that goes on in the industry.
As a contractor, this is totally true. The amount ranges from 7 figures down all the way to even to 4 figures where payment is always being drag, delay, “in process” forever.
I guess looking back at it, these are the bad times that refine our business skill, the ability to spot “bullshit” maincons / developer and how to properly - move things forward.
Hey broo, it's you.
yup. it's definitely a huge dip for us. but just gotta find ways to tighten things up and move forward.
Ask the lawyers to just serve them a winding up petition. If it is a public listed company, it will shake them hard.
Is that UEMS? Or Gamuda?
Don’t get cons by this lawyer, they just wanna earn ur money :) in order to test lawyer capability u offer them 70(you)-30 (lawyer) money recover. No legal fees to pay during this period :) performance base .
Save your free time and take your family to dinner Have to live in work life a few decades and learn the tricks
Another advice; do not drive while in deep thoughts or in serious conversation.
Appreciate it :)
Thanks for sharing this story, can't imagine the emotions that were running through your mind. It takes a lot of courage for you to share about your failure. As the saying goes, what does not kill you makes you stronger. All the best! :)
Thank you for that man Han Zhong. Will definitely learn to bounce back.
Thanks for shining lights on this matter, Leonard! As a business owner in Malaysia, I resonate with the feelings and challenges you have mentioned in this video. All the best and stay strong 💪
Thank you buddy! Had a lot of resistance to share the ugly part of business too
1. Big fish eat small fish ( sad facts )
2. Don't bite more then you can chew even tho it seemed delicious
3. Any business that needs capital for procurement materials is a no go if there's no 40% up front ( If you want to stay sane )
4. As a owner of a 20yr old company, life doesn't get easier when you start a business unless you're super LUCKY, it only get better when you're half way, or shud i say expect the first 10yrs to be rocky as hell.
You did well to handle the situation Leonard 👍
yes. worked on furniture ID contractor before. Manufacturers wanted 50% upfront and boss said ok and its normal practice. 50% release later in interim payments.
your words bring hope to me sir.
thank you for that. i hope the rocky part is over.
Thank you so much for the valuable insights; I really appreciate it. I'm planning to open a startup in Malaysia soon, and your advice means a lot to me. Stay strong, and I sincerely hope and pray that all your issues will be resolved very soon. You will come out of this situation and become a better and wiser person.
thank you buddy!
definitely a heavy lesson for me. best of luck to you too man!
Contract Management is much crucial for company these days. Large government agency, even, by threatening messages to press for Variation Order with additional unfair clauses in which we refused to sign. Getting good, decent professional lawyer to sit along with the board advising the situation is one of the key strategy part of the business in modern days. Thanks for your sharing.
got it! thanks for sharing man
Always the developer win with good judge ( not bias) in court. Claim will be not profit making , material speciation not up to std, safety issue not comply, LAD, etc. Waste of time. With an invoice ( accrual ) and gst not paid by developer and main con at the end of contract( deduction) due to abolishment. My company have to shut down.
As someone in similar industry, this is such a common issue to be hearing of in this country regardless of the RM amount, it's saddening. Good thing is you're one step ahead after this debacle and definitely won't be letting it happen again.
Thanks for sharing. new businesses and aspiring business startups need to learn more about these issues imo. Else they'll get caught in this generational trap
Thanks for that man. Definitely a heavy lesson.
Even if you win they can keep appealing to the highest court, which is the Federal Court. It will take you many years to if you can even see the money. Who's the winner here, your lawyers!
yeah... i don't have the mental capacity for that.
Thanks for sharing. I'm in the Service industry and have been through the ordeal that you described. As you said reading and understanding contracts is critical and email reminders on delayed payment is important for future litigation. Above all, your company need to hv a strong cash flow so that you are in a position to go for litigation in a position of strength to hold it out through the lengthy process.
yeah, thats what we really focus alot on right now. Tho tedious but it's absolutely worth it.
Dunno if it ever crossed your mind, but maybe hire a licensed Quantity Surveyor to help you with the contracts and payments for future projects. I dont know to what extent the services are available (still in uni) but what you describe is basically a QS's job scope. Contracts, payments, documentation. Someone who knows their way around contracts can really help you, esp during site meetings. They make good arbitrator/litigators too if trained in that aspect.
Also bgm is a lil loud, can make it difficult to listen.
you are absolutely right. I'll definitely do that in future.
Because of this situation, ive met QS that offered great advise too..
got it on the BGM man, will take note!
You have to be careful with QS too.
Must learn to understand Standard PAM Contract which is the basic acceptable Contract in Building Contract in Malaysia for the Private Sector.
Getting a good Litigation Lawyer with special knowledge in Construction Law and Arbitration is the only way to protect yourself.
Construction industry in Malaysia - dirty practices, cutting corners, non payment is the norm. Sad reality but even the ‘better’ developers can be very unscrupulous.
Same with Philippines. Even in the private sector there's too much corruption. The lower level engineers always asking bribes and the higher management doesn't do something about it. The owners also don't pay on time messing up your operations and payments.
Thank you so much bro. I'm starting a company and although not in construction, I feel like I could learn a lot about contracts.
nice man! congrats.
Loads to learn for us still.
It's tedious but it safe guards you.
Coming from the same field I felt the same pinch when these moments happened. Hope all is good Leonard!💪
thanks buddy! wish you alll the best too :)
Freelancer here.... I stop accepting government or big conglomerate work if they request a very last minute high pay job with no proper contract and deposit upfront.
Not much compare to yours but I lost RM20k from that mistake... Hard to thrive here...
take only what you can chew.. that's what i learned
sincere sharing, from voice/tone can see you go through a lot
thank you...
thanks for sharing your experience Leonard, glad you manage to pulled it through.
appreciate it Simon
Our economy has problems wrt payments.
Way back early 2000's, supermarket used to pay up within one month after getting sales. Then two, now i heard its up to 6 months.
Its best to check up company's payment history before taking up a job.
A friend had a contract to build a governnrnt building but when its completed, new boss came in and refused to authorise payment. Many years later somebody bought over so he was lucky but suffered.
During covid some lost export orders due to lockdown. Lost their factories too.
sad.. that's when they said, the industry norm is like that. thats the payment structure we're used to.
Sorry that this is happening to you. It is a really painful experience. We have experienced this before too but smaller scale. They will try to drag it forever but stay firm. All the best.
Thank you :)
I guess we all facing same issue in different industries,even little tailor like me have that issue to with customer😢
always looking to refine our payment structure to protect all parties
Learn fr mistake - keep it up
sounds like a highway project targeting for completion during covid19 era at the suburb of klang valley
Thank you for sharing that!
@@Leonardbuilds it's already in the news about some alleged outstanding payments to contractors
in fact, MACC already launched an investigation
The interior looks like a E39 5 series to me.
@@johnmactavish5191 great guess! It’s E90
Probably need a contract manager in your team to ensure all incoming contracts are within tolerable terms. sometime it's a tad too late to look for lawyer
Yeah that’s what we’ve been structuring our company with too
Great video! Cashflow is important
Amazing video man, thanks for sharing your story and experience! Im not in the service industry but some of these lessons are definitely applicable in many situations regarding contracts and payment.
Side note: The bgm is kind of drowning your voice out abit. Perhaps a little lower in level and/or sidechaining might help in bringing your voice out abit more!
One more thing, completely unrelated, I drive those roads pretty much everyday! hahaha😂
haha thanks for your remarks, will take note on the BGM.
appreciate your kind words man.
I understand that stressful period bro. Was in similar situation. The fella even went missing, refused to come out to discuss. In the end we got him bankrupt, still haven't got back our money but that's the last thing we can do legally and now wait for insolvency dept to deal with this... which still, no update from them yet
even if you wind them up, if the company has no value.. it's almost a wasted effort.
@@Leonardbuilds Correct, we had court orders to check with multiple banks that he may have personal or company acc with, he had swindled it away from the company, left a bit of money only. Not able to trace where it went. But the idiot company is sole prop so personally he kena as well. If it's Sdn Bhd then we can't do anything to him. Now he gonna live a troublesome life as a bankruptcy until he come out and settle this.
Hey Leonard! Thanks so much for sharing this it's really insightful for someone like me who's running a start up. We're working on motion graphics and animation projects from script to screen. If you're up for a collaboration or just want to discuss ideas, feel free to reach out!
always up for collaboration! do drop us an email, or reach out to me on IG @leonardbuilds
I hope your endeavour will bear a fruitful result.
thank you!
yeah please sue them. i agree.
In this challenging times, contact and litigation will be the only last resort to get your money when some not so nice client doesn’t want to pay
never wished to end it this way. having lawyers on-board is never good for any party
bro fix your car roofliner only about rm500.
on it! it bothers me too haha
Lawyer laughing to the bank . They will prolonged this if they can, small fish who runs out of money to pay them loses.
that's what im told most of the time too
Didn't read contract before signing. Too happy when big contract come in, lesson learned.
It's ok, keep building your company, this is only the beginning.
yup you are right man.
Thanks for the sharing. Based on your experience and knowledge, what would be the appropriate contract size to start engaging a lawyer to vet through the agreement?
even if it's 50k.. cause the damage will be higher if you can receive your money.
There is an idiot born every minute.
I was one idiot too, born during the recession in 1997/98.
I watched this video halfway and realized that it was me back in time.
Thank you for sharing mate..
Malaysia is pretty cowboy on payment. There are billionaire companies with public listing that can have a super bad reputation on payment.
man i hope this is not we're known for but sadly..
Not just Malaysia, but everywhere😂...that's the dark side of business - it just disrupts your life when things like these happen. Had my fair share, including sh***y business partner. Deep breaths, stay calm and meditate on a plan. You Will come out of the hole ...what will not kill you will make you stronger. Wishing you the best. No dream is easy to accomplish. Peace.
CHHB is infamous.
@@giant108 20 sen company😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣👺👺👺👺👺👺
All Tu m era tycoon either Malaysia Chinese india all behave barbarian. CH hotel also close shop the boss dare not pay LHDN and non permitted leaving country. Their project PM is lawyer keep changing contractor & didn’t pay but completed a project , amazing right :)
So for other clients you dont have contract stating the details as well? and theres no issue with other clients even tho theres no black white with other clients?
most of them no issues.. just one black sheep
@@Leonardbuilds oh ok ...
Never do any work for YTL. Heard lots of news .
Clever boy :)
Thanks for sharing your experience 👍
My pleasure!
Best part is when your lawyer letter is served, they will say: it's such a small amount la, this will hurt our business relationship and we won't consider your company in future la, my boss don't like to see lawyer letter la. All these nonsense when the books show 720+ days outstanding.
Like they had so much time to process payment like a normal person would, yet they'd rather put their time effort and money into hiring a team of 20k salary in house corporate lawyers just to screw people than to just be honest and pay up.
Yeah. Corporate folks can be huge hypocrites and liar.
don't wanna generalize them, but it's not their money, so decision making method will be different
yeah. and you get stuck in this situation, couldn't get out
Music is a bit loud brother. Great video nonetheless
got it bro! thanks for remarking that
Bro.. that company is it protasco?
nopppeee
Company name starts with E?
ahhh noppeee
Draggjng your payment to 18 months is pretty common in Malaysia construction industry. L
Sad that it’s a common thing eh?
How muchnu earn - 50% or more
i wish..
Get a gd lawyer to go after tis co.
yup already did!
Name and shame, company and persons responsible?
later kena sue for defamation leh.
He says road infra, it is pretty much shortlisted for you
doesn't solve the problem :)
most importantly learn from it..
Co start with A?
nopee
YTL ke ?
takk
Please sue them to the ground!
as long as i can walk out of it.. good enough
Keep the layer fi and go for a full course table
My guess is that you are a loya
Business is risky.
it is.
Name and shame the company man
I am sure he knows this that's why he didn't mention the company.
It is still in litigation and mentioning the company before settlement will certainly harm him.
@@wizlee-dev appreciate your understanding, naming and shaming will never lead to any resolution. Learn and move on and do better :D
Do you have a boyfriend 😊
i dont.. i have a wife ;)
Prolintas lah
nope...
@@LeonardbuildsUEMS or Gamuda?
Good👍😇world recession standby
Thanks for sharing bro... Learned a lot from u
Thank you for those words man!