Whenever I've put my faith in human beings and human institutions, I have, invariably, been disappointed. Whenever I've put my faith in Jesus, who he is, here and now, I have, invariably, been richly rewarded - usually after being thoroughly tested. After some 40 years of this, i've concluded that the value of all of this testing is to either show me where I lack faith or prove to me that I have it, and, ultimately, to bring me to a place where I will never back off. At this point I have so much invested that I would MUCH rather die than back off. Another way of saying the same thing: fix your thought on Jesus. He must be everything, I & my little world must be nothing.
Jesus warned us of this end time phenom. It happened in his day too. Ppl who depart from the faith when they have tasted of the Living God r in grave danger. Denominational “religion” does not bear fruit. It is only by faith in the Living God. 😢
I wouldn’t trust someone to captain a 747 with just book knowledge. Being a man or woman of God requires relationship, trust, belief, and faith in Him.
Of course you are not going to be let down by putting your faith in Jesus or a magic man in the sky, why? because there is nothing and no one there that will let you down.
My heart goes out to him. I know of a few Pastors who left the church because of the congregation or should I say the Elders of the church. I pray he will fin d his faith again and his way back to Jesus.
At his lowest moment he could not find a place for spiritual healing. This is one reason why I'm glad our church has Celebrate Recovery. It's a place where you can go and just express your situation without people trying to fix you.
My hypothesis is most mega pastors do not believe in Jesus, they just Trade-in-Jesus(make money from his name). In this case we have a genuine man who reflected hard and was honest with himself and others( a very rare quality these days). I personally trust a pastor who lives moderately and serves his congregation without asking for money.
I ministered to the truck driver that hit the teacher who had a sexual relationship with one of his students. The teacher jumped in front of a semi truck on I-10 close to my office. I was in God’s hands that day. The driver needed someone to minister to him. God chose me. I was incredibly humbled by this call!
Thank you for your honest, compassionate view of this book, that shows the pathetic state of the American church. May God have mercy on us, and pour out on us His Spirit of grace and supplication.
There is an avalanche of people leaving the faith today, and the biggest reason why is because they are realizing that the Bible is just a book, written by human beings, like all other books.
Or perhaps because that in spite of having read the Bible diligently, they still don’t know God personally, and that leaves them open to serious deception by the enemy of God and man, that great deceiver and father of lies, whose greatest deception is that he doesn’t even exist. And it’s this deception that leads them to false conclusions such as the one you presented here.
@@colinloechel8378 According to ISBNDB, there have been approximately 158 464 880 unique books published as of Oct 20 2023. Lets assume that number is correct just for argument's sake. I believe that every single one of those books were authored entirely by human beings. You believe that 158 464 879 books were authored entirely by humans, and one book was not. Do you have any evidence to support that claim? Didn't think so. If you read the Bible diligently, then you will notice that the Bible completely collapses under the weight of it's own hypocrisy, contradictions, scientific and historical inaccuracies, misogyny, brutality, injustice, and absolute sheer madness. I'm not saying that no God exists. I'm saying that if God does exist, then either God did an impeccably perfect job of making the Bible look like human made fiction, or the Bible is human made fiction.
@@colinloechel8378 One day you may tire of playing make believe too and take back your identity. You've had your head filled with ancient superstitions and fear. How many more years are you going play make believe, find YOURSELF!!!
Parents who believe should insist their children go on a journey to find our Father at a time of their making. Not just blindly follow in the footprints of the parents. This following the leader is not knowledge of our Father. Its faith in the parents. Its EASILY destroyed. It then attaches itself to our Father.
If you are lucky both of you will one day see that your faith is nothing more than pure fiction, and you will be able to escape. Ask each other what the other would do if one of you told the other that you had lost your faith, how would you react?
I think reality is most of us have no faith "IN God", but IN the preachers belief in God. Most of us do our "religious activities" in obedience and to please our pastors and our churchmates, all are just done as part of our Sunday routine. It's the cause of deconstructions. Many "believers" only have knowledge about God, but no real relationship with Him. That when that knowledge is contradicted by what they witnessed from their churchmates, or from other sources, their trust in the veracity of their knowledge of God begins to crumble. Contrary to our fears, I think it's not right to dissuade a "believer" from questioning from the start. it's an expression of rising interest to know more about God. It's a step towards building one's trust and having a living relationship with Him, for the believers faith IN God to become strong and stand, unmoved by the unfaithfulness of his churchmates or the disbelief of atheists.
The church today is in a sad situation. Many call themselves Christians, but in reality, they're not. John 6:66 says that many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more, except his twelve disciples. Recall that Jesus said in Matt 7:31,14: “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. So Tim's decision to walk away from God is nothing new. Yes, there are many hypocrites in church today and has been for a long time. But God's word is still true today and he will eventually separate the goats from the sheep. God knows who are his. I truly feel sorry for Tim and I pray that he returns. I personally don't have time to look at other christians, because I too would fall and get discouraged. What we need to do is, to keep our focus on Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith.
At 40:00 - Having good theology, understanding the heart of the Christian story… “ Wouldn’t it be better to say “Knowing God personally and intimately as our Heavenly Father” and knowing Jesus personally and intimately as our Lord, Saviour, and elder brother…”? Wouldn’t that be more helpful and truthful than the academic Christian language that is often used in these types of discussions between “educated, academic” Christians? At 43:35 - on Tim being “intrinsically highly valued, made in the image of God”. Highly valued by whom? If highly valued by God, then why is God willing to sentence him to hell, whether that be eternal suffering or annihilation, in accordance with traditional Christian teaching on heaven and hell? Could it be that mainstream Christianity has got this wrong, and in doing so, have grossly misrepresented the love of God for his most prized creation, those whom He created in His own image?
Parents: Why does a parent not panic when their 5 yr old states, " There is a man in the moon." Because, the parents are confident that the child will out grow the belief. The parent has faith and confidence in growth. YET, the same parents panic when their teen expresses doubt about God. We should listen in the same way Sean's dad did. I grew up in a similar way. My dad asked open ended questions, without any traps or manipulation. He had faith that I would find the answers. Faith in God, was faith in God's methods to bring truth to me. If we were to get to the root of loss of Christian faith or rejection of Christian religion, it is faulty assumptions about God. We will hear, "Well if God is ABC, then how can XYZ exist." So for example, if a christian believes that Christians must act a certain way and WILL act, but then witness terribly sinful behavior, they will suffer disappointment, that will lead to doubt. Assumptions come with expectations. Both can be, and often are incorrect. For example, a Christian parent experiences a pastor that molested their child, and when exposed was not punished, their faith will falter because of the Christian parent's primary assumptions and expectations. Jesus behavior in the garden,.and different accounts are not in conflict. The glass is half full and half empty. BOTH are true. If we accept Jesus as both God and human, we will see varying behavior, and one does not negate the other. The author's beliefs were always faulty, because his faith was based on faulty assumptions and expectations about God, and about Christians.
At 37:35 Very interesting on the gospel accounts. We see the 3 harmonic gospels focus on Jesus in His humanity, but John focuses on His divine nature. The contradiction is not in the difference in the accounts. Its the POV of each writer. Now its not surprising that John was the one chosen to receive the details in Revelation, right? He saw Jesus as God first and foremost.
man John chapter 3 never hits home this hard. HS blows where he wishes. birthing everyone that the father has elected before the foundations of the world.
The whole conversation was framed empathetically. I can see the tenderness of Jesus in that, for, “a bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out” (Mt. 12:20). Jesus is gracious. But there are other elements at work in the nature of apostasy which were not discussed. In fact, that word wasn’t even used, which may raise a good question. Writing to a whole congregation of believers on the edge of giving up their faith, a biblical author under divine inspiration wrote these words: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God” (Heb. 3:12). And that author did so without minimizing the challenges to their faith or excusing their apostasy.
Bottom Line: If your faith is based on intellectual knowledge and theology your experience will betray you. If you have and encounter with the resurrected Christ, if you have regular encounters with God in prayer, you will not be shaken.
The argument that the author "puts the caboose before the engine" because he talks more about his poor relationships than the theological disagreements doesn't hold. Just because you spend a lot of time on a subject doesnt mean necessarily that that's the most important thing. It could just be the incline to the climax, the pinnacle of his deconstruction. And those theological issues are big. Who is to say one's theology is better than anothers? Christians always like to focus on relationships that lead the person away, but it was through relationships that lead you into Christianity. You were taught it. This ex pastor seems to come from a period where Christianity was more strict. The latest generations are more accepting to questions, if it leads to witnessesing and that's where the issue lies. Your solution isn't being more "spirit filled" (because that is where all types of nonsense can come in which frankly can be self abuse), it's acknowledging that this Christianity is mythology. It's a choice, a religion not fact. It's harder to face the emptiness of life; yet, it is still more liberating than believing in a God that allows Hell to exist. Also, how are we defining soul? Is soul not our character and personality? Since when was it viewed as just our senses or chemicals? I feel like this wasn't an in depth dive what deconstruction is about. A human being can great things without this faith, without Jesus. -Talbot graduate, exvangelical, atheist
This man simply didn't have a supernatural experience with Jesus!! Every Christian should have this experience for them to continue living for Jesus!! Paul said, And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. I Corinthians 2:4-5 NKJV
Hypocrites are the worst however we will never be perfect this side of heaven, not to excuse anyone that's why church discipline is a good idea. Reformed baptist churches are the best, they still preach the Bible..
The mega Pastor never compared the Jesus of his own mind to the NEW TESTAMENT JESUS. The same could be said a self justified person doesn't understand THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST.
So it is the grotesque false doctrine of eternal torment that caused him to lose his faith. Jesus did not believe or teach hell. It is a satanic lie. Hell is an English translation of various words, they are Gehenna, Hades, Sheol and Tartarus and none of these words have anything to do with eternal torment.
It is always disheartening and discouraging to believers of Lord Jesus Christ. Believers of Lord Jesus must read the Bible intently listening to what our Father in Heaven is telling, teaching and guiding us. Listen! The Book of Job could have taught us that God the Father is sovereign and good, and that it is our duty to praise and worship HIM. As a young believer, we are told to run to Jesus if we want comfort and security. We are told to build the wonderful and intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus and our Heavenly Father through prayer and quiet time. The apostles and the believers during Jesus' ministry on earth was the time they built their relationship with Jesus. Those who persevered and became witnesses had built a wonderful relationship with HIM. Others did not want a relationship with Jesus and they fell away. Lord Jesus offers us a family with God. As with human family, there is/are members, be it father, mother, son or daughter, of a family choose to not be with the family. This is sad. This is not so with God, He is merciful, compassionate and forgiving. Any who ran away, come back, come back. Yes, remember the story of the prodigal son, or should we re-name The Loving God our Heavenly Father. Being a Christian means having a personal relationship with God the Father, with His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. That is why we pray Our Father in Heaven ..., we are sons and daughters of God ..., the church is the bride and the Lord Jesus is the groom, ... Christianity is a relationship with God. God is good. We, His children, should also be good. Full stop.
" God's Commands in Joshua What part of the old testment talks about God telling the jews to kill all living things including women and children? In the Old Testament, there are certain passages that describe God commanding the Israelites to engage in warfare against other nations, including the destruction of cities and sometimes the taking of lives. One of the most prominent examples of this is found in the book of Joshua. In the book of Joshua, after the death of Moses, Joshua becomes the leader of the Israelites, and they are about to enter the Promised Land, Canaan. God instructs Joshua to lead the Israelites in conquering the land, and this conquest involves military campaigns against the Canaanite cities and tribes. One particularly controversial episode is the conquest of Jericho, described in Joshua chapter 6. In this account, God commands the Israelites to march around the city of Jericho for six days, and on the seventh day, they are to blow trumpets and shout, and the walls of the city will collapse, allowing them to enter the city and destroy it. The Israelites are told to utterly destroy everything in the city: men, women, children, and livestock. Here is a relevant verse from Joshua 6:21 (NIV): "They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, and donkeys." This and similar passages have been the subject of much debate and moral scrutiny throughout history, and interpretations differ among religious scholars and adherents. Some view these accounts as historical narratives of events that happened in the context of ancient warfare, while others approach them as theological lessons about faith, obedience, and the consequences of actions. It is essential to remember that the Bible contains various genres, including historical narratives, poetry, prophecies, and laws. Interpreting these texts requires understanding the historical context, cultural practices, and the overall message of love, justice, and redemption that many other parts of the Bible emphasize.
The modern church has so many problems. Much of the modern church will even deny this could happen. We have created man-made religions instead of a relationship with the one true God.
This just pisses me off. At the end of the day, unless you are God and can control what happens to you after you die, then you’d better drop the self-righteous BS and get right with the One who does. God is so “other,” he’s not your experiences or the people you’ve met on this devil-serving planet. I’ve had a crap life but was shown God’s love before my dad died when I was nine- seek God’s love, He IS love, and then pursue Him in this life until you’re reunited with Him in the next. YES, it is bigger than you and it IS worth it.
This may come across as callous to the point of lacking in grace so be it bec the slippery slope of unrepentant life leads to far worse fate than an offended reader. the minute i hear about a church leader going through 2 divorces in contradiction to Paul's letters to Timothy i'd run from his congregation in a jiffy. Why? The Word of God is the standard a follower of Jesus lives by whether he enjoys it or not. Consequently even entertaining a "loving" conversation with an unrepentant teacher of the faith is to invite a wolf back in the sheep pen. When will we start to let Jesus' spoken words sink in: do not throw your pearls to swine? When i was a young christian i took "if anyone be in Christ he is a new creation" literally. And i was cut down to size rather quickly in shame of my own sins and sinful nature.And then i come across "Behold I'm coming soon". What? Reading this 2000 years later? BUT in my innermost being i know Jesus is real and that is why i live my life according to Matt ch 5 to 7 even if i fail again and again and i will not stand with the scoffers. It will take more than alledged discrepancies in the Word or excuses from some fake leader of the faith to prise me off Jesus.
Satan is very clever, and convincing. The author lost his way, or perhaps was never full of faith. Truth never changes, but "faith," can be false. Faith must have roots. Sadly, "happiness," has been the measure of truth.
Partly true. The other side is the organized church embracing sin, rejecting all calls to repentance, denying the work of the Holy Spirit is for us today...all those claim to be holding on to faith, yet they live their lives as though God is dead. At least this author sees and recognizes the incongruity of their actions!
@@sophiesmith5922 in my humble opinion if you are born again the pain of ignoring truth is too painful. Which is why I am assuming that these people might believe but still don’t know him.
"Nothing new under the sun". People who write these books acts like they've stumbled on some new enlightening understanding, but it's truly just a rejection of a hyper evangelical religion.
Were they 'called' by the most high or just had a feeling that they could be good at this and might be able to direct the dogmatic thinking laity to contribute a few million to their pastoring lifesyle ? . Why would anyone need to go to seminary when Jesus lays it out for them, IE; 'Preach the good news of the kingdom' ?, unless it involved compartmentalizing eternal truths to dip feed the poor patients of the church - You guys sound like the elders of the Jehovahs Witnesses- That poor bloke probably seen the hypocrisy and dogmatism of the Christin churches and said " I'm outta here " -simple .
If you never experience the fear of the LORD as a function of the Holy Spirit's work of salvation, I doubt that your faith will survive in the last days. The culture is being radically weaponized against everything Jesus and all that is holy.
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Whenever I've put my faith in human beings and human institutions, I have, invariably, been disappointed.
Whenever I've put my faith in Jesus, who he is, here and now, I have, invariably, been richly rewarded - usually after being thoroughly tested.
After some 40 years of this, i've concluded that the value of all of this testing is to either show me where I lack faith or prove to me that I have it, and, ultimately, to bring me to a place where I will never back off.
At this point I have so much invested that I would MUCH rather die than back off.
Another way of saying the same thing: fix your thought on Jesus. He must be everything, I & my little world must be nothing.
Jesus warned us of this end time phenom. It happened in his day too. Ppl who depart from the faith when they have tasted of the Living God r in grave danger. Denominational “religion” does not bear fruit. It is only by faith in the Living God. 😢
I wouldn’t trust someone to captain a 747 with just book knowledge. Being a man or woman of God requires relationship, trust, belief, and faith in Him.
AMEN
AMEN!!!🙏😇👍❤️MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT WALK US THROUGH IN JESUS UNTIL THE END!🙏😇👍❤️
Of course you are not going to be let down by putting your faith in Jesus or a magic man in the sky, why? because there is nothing and no one there that will let you down.
My heart goes out to him. I know of a few Pastors who left the church because of the congregation or should I say the Elders of the church. I pray he will fin d his faith again and his way back to Jesus.
At his lowest moment he could not find a place for spiritual healing. This is one reason why I'm glad our church has Celebrate Recovery. It's a place where you can go and just express your situation without people trying to fix you.
Always good to question first assumptions as an adult.
My hypothesis is most mega pastors do not believe in Jesus, they just Trade-in-Jesus(make money from his name). In this case we have a genuine man who reflected hard and was honest with himself and others( a very rare quality these days). I personally trust a pastor who lives moderately and serves his congregation without asking for money.
This does not apply only to mega-church pastors. Many pastors "period" trade in Jesus for other things such as the culture.
I ministered to the truck driver that hit the teacher who had a sexual relationship with one of his students. The teacher jumped in front of a semi truck on I-10 close to my office. I was in God’s hands that day. The driver needed someone to minister to him. God chose me. I was incredibly humbled by this call!
Thank you for your honest, compassionate view of this book, that shows the pathetic state of the American church. May God have mercy on us, and pour out on us His Spirit of grace and supplication.
There is an avalanche of people leaving the faith today, and the biggest reason why is because they are realizing that the Bible is just a book, written by human beings, like all other books.
Or perhaps because that in spite of having read the Bible diligently, they still don’t know God personally, and that leaves them open to serious deception by the enemy of God and man, that great deceiver and father of lies, whose greatest deception is that he doesn’t even exist.
And it’s this deception that leads them to false conclusions such as the one you presented here.
@@colinloechel8378 According to ISBNDB, there have been approximately 158 464 880 unique books published as of Oct 20 2023. Lets assume that number is correct just for argument's sake. I believe that every single one of those books were authored entirely by human beings. You believe that 158 464 879 books were authored entirely by humans, and one book was not. Do you have any evidence to support that claim?
Didn't think so.
If you read the Bible diligently, then you will notice that the Bible completely collapses under the weight of it's own hypocrisy, contradictions, scientific and historical inaccuracies, misogyny, brutality, injustice, and absolute sheer madness. I'm not saying that no God exists. I'm saying that if God does exist, then either God did an impeccably perfect job of making the Bible look like human made fiction, or the Bible is human made fiction.
@@colinloechel8378👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
@@colinloechel8378 One day you may tire of playing make believe too and take back your identity. You've had your head filled with ancient superstitions and fear. How many more years are you going play make believe, find YOURSELF!!!
Parents who believe should insist their children go on a journey to find our Father at a time of their making. Not just blindly follow in the footprints of the parents.
This following the leader is not knowledge of our Father. Its faith in the parents.
Its EASILY destroyed. It then attaches itself to our Father.
Sad sad only, we must pray for the author
I agree... 🙏💖 we need to pray this fallen man will return... like the "Prodigal son"!!
Yes indeed
Great conversation guys , thanks, was very helpful ❤.
34:00 love the explanation of perspective and complexity of life
23:20 REAL Christians...will feel sad and pray for Tim and others like him
well done Tim. A very brave journey
25:40 Truth... hypocrisy does disillusion many including the hypocrites themselves
If you are lucky both of you will one day see that your faith is nothing more than pure fiction, and you will be able to escape. Ask each other what the other would do if one of you told the other that you had lost your faith, how would you react?
God Bless your dialog
Community is so important. Burnout is real .take a break.🤗
Why not have Tim on your show so he can speak for himself and not be misrepresented?
I think reality is most of us have no faith "IN God", but IN the preachers belief in God. Most of us do our "religious activities" in obedience and to please our pastors and our churchmates, all are just done as part of our Sunday routine. It's the cause of deconstructions. Many "believers" only have knowledge about God, but no real relationship with Him. That when that knowledge is contradicted by what they witnessed from their churchmates, or from other sources, their trust in the veracity of their knowledge of God begins to crumble. Contrary to our fears, I think it's not right to dissuade a "believer" from questioning from the start. it's an expression of rising interest to know more about God. It's a step towards building one's trust and having a living relationship with Him, for the believers faith IN God to become strong and stand, unmoved by the unfaithfulness of his churchmates or the disbelief of atheists.
How do the “exceptions to Faith” compare with Carlton Pearson’s “Gospel of inclusion “ and “ God is Not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew”?
The church today is in a sad situation. Many call themselves Christians, but in reality, they're not. John 6:66 says that many of Jesus' disciples went back and walked with him no more, except his twelve disciples. Recall that Jesus said in Matt 7:31,14: “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. So Tim's decision to walk away from God is nothing new. Yes, there are many hypocrites in church today and has been for a long time. But God's word is still true today and he will eventually separate the goats from the sheep. God knows who are his. I truly feel sorry for Tim and I pray that he returns. I personally don't have time to look at other christians, because I too would fall and get discouraged. What we need to do is, to keep our focus on Jesus, who is the author and finisher of our faith.
Reminds me of ("Judas")... and the Scripture speaks of rejection of Christ or falling away!!!😥 Very sad!😮😣
Judas was lost read John 17 v 12
Son of perdition 😥
There is a difference. In this story "Judas" are those claiming they still have faith but living like the devil, and rejecting this pastor
Indeed
I John 2:19.
At 40:00 - Having good theology, understanding the heart of the Christian story… “
Wouldn’t it be better to say “Knowing God personally and intimately as our Heavenly Father” and knowing Jesus personally and intimately as our Lord, Saviour, and elder brother…”?
Wouldn’t that be more helpful and truthful than the academic Christian language that is often used in these types of discussions between “educated, academic” Christians?
At 43:35 - on Tim being “intrinsically highly valued, made in the image of God”.
Highly valued by whom?
If highly valued by God, then why is God willing to sentence him to hell, whether that be eternal suffering or annihilation, in accordance with traditional Christian teaching on heaven and hell?
Could it be that mainstream Christianity has got this wrong, and in doing so, have grossly misrepresented the love of God for his most prized creation, those whom He created in His own image?
Parents: Why does a parent not panic when their 5 yr old states,
" There is a man in the moon."
Because, the parents are confident that the child will out grow the belief. The parent has faith and confidence in growth. YET, the same parents panic when their teen expresses doubt about God. We should listen in the same way Sean's dad did. I grew up in a similar way. My dad asked open ended questions, without any traps or manipulation. He had faith that I would find the answers. Faith in God, was faith in God's methods to bring truth to me.
If we were to get to the root of loss of Christian faith or rejection of Christian religion, it is faulty assumptions about God.
We will hear, "Well if God is ABC, then how can XYZ exist."
So for example, if a christian believes that Christians must act a certain way and WILL act, but then witness terribly sinful behavior, they will suffer disappointment, that will lead to doubt. Assumptions come with expectations. Both can be, and often are incorrect.
For example, a Christian parent experiences a pastor that molested their child, and when exposed was not punished, their faith will falter because of the Christian parent's primary assumptions and expectations.
Jesus behavior in the garden,.and different accounts are not in conflict. The glass is half full and half empty. BOTH are true. If we accept Jesus as both God and human, we will see varying behavior, and one does not negate the other.
The author's beliefs were always faulty, because his faith was based on faulty assumptions and expectations about God, and about Christians.
At 37:35 Very interesting on the gospel accounts. We see the 3 harmonic gospels focus on Jesus in His humanity, but John focuses on His divine nature. The contradiction is not in the difference in the accounts. Its the POV of each writer. Now its not surprising that John was the one chosen to receive the details in Revelation, right? He saw Jesus as God first and foremost.
man John chapter 3 never hits home this hard. HS blows where he wishes. birthing everyone that the father has elected before the foundations of the world.
The whole conversation was framed empathetically. I can see the tenderness of Jesus in that, for, “a bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out” (Mt. 12:20). Jesus is gracious.
But there are other elements at work in the nature of apostasy which were not discussed. In fact, that word wasn’t even used, which may raise a good question.
Writing to a whole congregation of believers on the edge of giving up their faith, a biblical author under divine inspiration wrote these words: “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God” (Heb. 3:12). And that author did so without minimizing the challenges to their faith or excusing their apostasy.
Because God has proven to be a farse.
Bottom Line: If your faith is based on intellectual knowledge and theology your experience will betray you. If you have and encounter with the resurrected Christ, if you have regular encounters with God in prayer, you will not be shaken.
Pastor says: Goodbye to Jesus. Jesus says: Goodbye, see you on judgement day.
The argument that the author "puts the caboose before the engine" because he talks more about his poor relationships than the theological disagreements doesn't hold. Just because you spend a lot of time on a subject doesnt mean necessarily that that's the most important thing. It could just be the incline to the climax, the pinnacle of his deconstruction. And those theological issues are big. Who is to say one's theology is better than anothers? Christians always like to focus on relationships that lead the person away, but it was through relationships that lead you into Christianity. You were taught it. This ex pastor seems to come from a period where Christianity was more strict. The latest generations are more accepting to questions, if it leads to witnessesing and that's where the issue lies. Your solution isn't being more "spirit filled" (because that is where all types of nonsense can come in which frankly can be self abuse), it's acknowledging that this Christianity is mythology. It's a choice, a religion not fact. It's harder to face the emptiness of life; yet, it is still more liberating than believing in a God that allows Hell to exist. Also, how are we defining soul? Is soul not our character and personality? Since when was it viewed as just our senses or chemicals? I feel like this wasn't an in depth dive what deconstruction is about. A human being can great things without this faith, without Jesus.
-Talbot graduate, exvangelical, atheist
This man simply didn't have a supernatural experience with Jesus!!
Every Christian should have this experience for them to continue living for Jesus!!
Paul said,
And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
I Corinthians 2:4-5 NKJV
You didn't quote Tim correctly and directly. You spinned his quote and then interpretted it to your liking. That is called cheating.
Hypocrites are the worst however we will never be perfect this side of heaven, not to excuse anyone that's why church discipline is a good idea. Reformed baptist churches are the best, they still preach the Bible..
Those who are lose may lose their Faith. Vp
Where did the term “de-conversion” come from? Stories are interesting but bottom line is the person never was a true believer. Never regenerated.
The mega Pastor never compared the Jesus of his own mind to the NEW TESTAMENT JESUS. The same could be said a self justified person doesn't understand THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD IN CHRIST.
He is self-righteous and entitled
So it is the grotesque false doctrine of eternal torment that caused him to lose his faith. Jesus did not believe or teach hell. It is a satanic lie. Hell is an English translation of various words, they are Gehenna, Hades, Sheol and Tartarus and none of these words have anything to do with eternal torment.
It is always disheartening and discouraging to believers of Lord Jesus Christ. Believers of Lord Jesus must read the Bible intently listening to what our Father in Heaven is telling, teaching and guiding us. Listen!
The Book of Job could have taught us that God the Father is sovereign and good, and that it is our duty to praise and worship HIM. As a young believer, we are told to run to Jesus if we want comfort and security. We are told to build the wonderful and intimate relationship with the Lord Jesus and our Heavenly Father through prayer and quiet time.
The apostles and the believers during Jesus' ministry on earth was the time they built their relationship with Jesus. Those who persevered and became witnesses had built a wonderful relationship with HIM. Others did not want a relationship with Jesus and they fell away.
Lord Jesus offers us a family with God. As with human family, there is/are members, be it father, mother, son or daughter, of a family choose to not be with the family. This is sad. This is not so with God, He is merciful, compassionate and forgiving. Any who ran away, come back, come back. Yes, remember the story of the prodigal son, or should we re-name The Loving God our Heavenly Father.
Being a Christian means having a personal relationship with God the Father, with His Son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. That is why we pray Our Father in Heaven ..., we are sons and daughters of God ..., the church is the bride and the Lord Jesus is the groom, ...
Christianity is a relationship with God. God is good. We, His children, should also be good. Full stop.
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God's Commands in Joshua
What part of the old testment talks about God telling the jews to kill all living things including women and children?
In the Old Testament, there are certain passages that describe God commanding the Israelites to engage in warfare against other nations, including the destruction of cities and sometimes the taking of lives. One of the most prominent examples of this is found in the book of Joshua.
In the book of Joshua, after the death of Moses, Joshua becomes the leader of the Israelites, and they are about to enter the Promised Land, Canaan. God instructs Joshua to lead the Israelites in conquering the land, and this conquest involves military campaigns against the Canaanite cities and tribes.
One particularly controversial episode is the conquest of Jericho, described in Joshua chapter 6. In this account, God commands the Israelites to march around the city of Jericho for six days, and on the seventh day, they are to blow trumpets and shout, and the walls of the city will collapse, allowing them to enter the city and destroy it. The Israelites are told to utterly destroy everything in the city: men, women, children, and livestock.
Here is a relevant verse from Joshua 6:21 (NIV):
"They devoted the city to the Lord and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it-men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep, and donkeys."
This and similar passages have been the subject of much debate and moral scrutiny throughout history, and interpretations differ among religious scholars and adherents. Some view these accounts as historical narratives of events that happened in the context of ancient warfare, while others approach them as theological lessons about faith, obedience, and the consequences of actions.
It is essential to remember that the Bible contains various genres, including historical narratives, poetry, prophecies, and laws. Interpreting these texts requires understanding the historical context, cultural practices, and the overall message of love, justice, and redemption that many other parts of the Bible emphasize.
The modern church has so many problems. Much of the modern church will even deny this could happen. We have created man-made religions instead of a relationship with the one true God.
This just pisses me off. At the end of the day, unless you are God and can control what happens to you after you die, then you’d better drop the self-righteous BS and get right with the One who does. God is so “other,” he’s not your experiences or the people you’ve met on this devil-serving planet. I’ve had a crap life but was shown God’s love before my dad died when I was nine- seek God’s love, He IS love, and then pursue Him in this life until you’re reunited with Him in the next. YES, it is bigger than you and it IS worth it.
1John 2:19
They never were of us!
When you Know Jesus, turning away is like saying the sun doesn't give light.
1:20 The only reason he ended up leaving the faith is because he never received the Holy Spirit.
You’d think he was a member of the church of Christ.
Everyone in and outside the church is sick, those who are actually in the church have been drawn by Christ 😊
HE NEVER KNEW JESUS
Because it doesn't make sense!
This may come across as callous to the point of lacking in grace so be it bec the slippery slope of unrepentant life leads to far worse fate than an offended reader. the minute i hear about a church leader going through 2 divorces in contradiction to Paul's letters to Timothy i'd run from his congregation in a jiffy. Why? The Word of God is the standard a follower of Jesus lives by whether he enjoys it or not. Consequently even entertaining a "loving" conversation with an unrepentant teacher of the faith is to invite a wolf back in the sheep pen. When will we start to let Jesus' spoken words sink in: do not throw your pearls to swine? When i was a young christian i took "if anyone be in Christ he is a new creation" literally. And i was cut down to size rather quickly in shame of my own sins and sinful nature.And then i come across "Behold I'm coming soon". What? Reading this 2000 years later? BUT in my innermost being i know Jesus is real and that is why i live my life according to Matt ch 5 to 7 even if i fail again and again and i will not stand with the scoffers. It will take more than alledged discrepancies in the Word or excuses from some fake leader of the faith to prise me off Jesus.
Satan is very clever, and convincing. The author lost his way, or perhaps was never full of faith. Truth never changes, but "faith," can be false. Faith must have roots.
Sadly, "happiness," has been the measure of truth.
People who deny Jesus can easily do so when they never knew him to start. 😅 Day 1 stuff folks.
Partly true. The other side is the organized church embracing sin, rejecting all calls to repentance, denying the work of the Holy Spirit is for us today...all those claim to be holding on to faith, yet they live their lives as though God is dead. At least this author sees and recognizes the incongruity of their actions!
@@sophiesmith5922 in my humble opinion if you are born again the pain of ignoring truth is too painful. Which is why I am assuming that these people might believe but still don’t know him.
"Nothing new under the sun". People who write these books acts like they've stumbled on some new enlightening understanding, but it's truly just a rejection of a hyper evangelical religion.
...when men live in sin, we would not want to believe in hell !
Were they 'called' by the most high or just had a feeling that they could be good at this and might be able to direct the dogmatic thinking laity to contribute a few million to their pastoring lifesyle ? . Why would anyone need to go to seminary when Jesus lays it out for them, IE; 'Preach the good news of the kingdom' ?, unless it involved compartmentalizing eternal truths to dip feed the poor patients of the church - You guys sound like the elders of the Jehovahs Witnesses- That poor bloke probably seen the hypocrisy and dogmatism of the Christin churches and said " I'm outta here " -simple .
You must be born again!
He realized xianity is a scam against gentíles. Don't be simps for the evil tríbe of yhwh.
If you never experience the fear of the LORD as a function of the Holy Spirit's work of salvation, I doubt that your faith will survive in the last days. The culture is being radically weaponized against everything Jesus and all that is holy.