Klay Thompson | Examining his defense (2019)
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- Опубликовано: 24 авг 2024
- Klay Thompson made the All-Defensive team for the first time in his career in 2019. He has a strong reputation as a defender, but his advanced defensive metrics are often lacking. What gives? Is he really one of the best defensive guards in the league? This detailed film breakdown & scouting report examine the strengths and weaknesses of the Golden State Warriors star while incorporating analytics & stats to assess his defensive impact.
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Ben Taylor is the author of Thinking Basketball, a Nylon Calculus contributor, creator of the Backpicks Top 40 series & host of the Thinking Basketball podcast.
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Krishna Narsu @knarsu3
IMPACT METRICS
-RPM is ESPN's proprietary model that blends adjusted plus-minus with the box score
-PIPM is a hybrid model (box score and plus-minus) that "luck-adjusts" plus-minus data (regresses FT% and 3pt%) to account for noise and is more sensitive to a player's role/fit on a given team. Created by @JacobEGoldstein
-Luck-Adjusted RAPM is a pure plus-minus model adjusted for shooting luck, reducing some of the noise of single-season APM. It is most sensitive to role/fit of these three. Available at: nbashotcharts.c...
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Footage in this video is owned by the NBA and its partners. It is intended for critique and education.
Music by csus (instrumental)
Ya but this is just Klay Thompson. Didn’t take in account the other Klays: China Klay, scaffolding Klay, toaster Klay, Game 6 Klay, etc
Headband klay
China klay is dpoy
Game 6 klay is the greatest player of all time and it ain't even up for debate
also fake klay
Don't forget splash Klay
klay is the perfect fit on every single team in the league
hes terrible without curry
@@kristian9014 Looks like we have a hater. Get back to reality and you'll see that Klay can excel in any system.
Coming from a Kawhi fanboy, btw.
@@kristian9014 😟
@@kristian9014 is that why hes had some of his best games when currys offense is M.I.A.?
If he’s your first option you’re in trouble. But incredible as a 2nd or 3rd option. Very scalable game
I love the use of lesser known statistics in order to paint a fuller picture. Coupled with great video analysis, this channel is really doing something awesome.
Another reason the metrics say hes bad is that, as you said, he is always lining up with the opponents best guard.
Epic Gamer How is it another reason if he already said it lmao
This is an epic gamer analysis moment
@@joeasuncion2891 its because he didn't say that. He said he was better at guarding guards than the rest of the warriors, but he didn't adjusts the advanced stats to adjust for the players he was up against.
Those advanced plus-minus metrics actually do adjust for individual opponent strength, so that's not a factor.
so does every 1st team all defense member and their numbers are still really good. try again.
I'd love a video on the best defenders in the NBA and what makes them effective
Blair Johnson 2nd this!
154th this
Klay usually guards the opposing PG/toughest matchup while also contributing significantly offensively as well...not many other players have this kind of responsibility on a night in night out basis...but to be fair it's mostly his on ball defense I find stellar which is very important considering the types of players he guards!
7:48 when mentioning Iguodala I wished Ben added: "... Who's one of the greatest wing defenders ever..." to highlight that Klay is being replaced by a superior defender. Also, it is funny he only made two all-defensive teams which is absolutely ridiculous. Great analysis as usual though
I forget that's somehow not a given.
Oh yeah. Has the best hands in the league
Klay isn't a sf. Klay is the SG what the fuck is this shit on about... Iggy and klay play on the court together!
@@saiwaqa2573 Playing with new teammate, D'angelo Russell. 😀😀
Steph Curry at PG
D'angelo Russell at SG
Klay Thompson at SF
@@deandrepage1048 Lol, a video before he even plays at SF??? Are you kidding me?
I can’t even get FIVE seconds into the vid and I already love it...scaffolding Klay is an underrated Klay
That efg stat is great. It seems like his defense is effective for his purpose/role in the team, which is to contain the star perimeter player as much as he can. Warriors system really maximizes the skill and role their core players have.
Alright I wanna see an Dejounte Murray analysis next.
Stalker Bleach here here💯
As a Warriors fan, I definitely value Klay's abilities on both ends of the court. I would really like to see you do a list of the "best perimeter defenders".
Am I the only one who would love to see this sort of analysis on some older players like K Garnett, Iverson, John Stockton, or Hakeem?
Got your wish on two of them
You still better then sportcenter. Actual analysis without just idiots yelling at each other or who's more popular like this is real analysis and I respect you bruh
“Klay Can be a bit spacey”
Yes because it’s probable he’s high asf😭
🤣🤣
I would like to see a video looking at the "best defenders" in the league and seeing how they stack up against each other. Narratives about defense can be really vague and hard to quantify, so if you get a reputation as a defender it often sticks even if not completely warranted.
Maate you've done it again. Amazing comprehensive analysis. Love it.
Klay is the greatest 3-and-D player of all time.
Reggie Miller up there.
@@yd856 Reggie was probably a better shotter, but he wasn t a elite defensive player like Klay Thompson.
Kawhi
@@yetundeadeyemi2436 Klay is a much better 3 point shotter.
@@leandrorodrigues6540 and Kawhi was a much better defender, especially on the perimeter
Really enjoyed this video because it's easy to get wrapped up in how a player looks with on ball defense but team defense, especially for guards is mostly recognizable in hindsight.
This my fav bball channel rn SOO detailed compared to the other ones
You need to be making videos weekly. Straight heat and always something to look forward to watching
Amazing analysis as always. I fucking love this channel, it's also improved my play by improving my basketball IQ and awareness. Thanks for the great content man, we really appreciate it!
Could you do john collins next he's incredibly underrated especially in his draft class
Empathy Trail not saying I disagree but explain
I would love a video like this. I always hear about him, but I haven't seen the Hawks play too much.
@@GodofDisco he has been putting up great numbers this year and is one of the best finishers at his position a lot of people been looking at other drafts but john collins was often overlooked despite doing work he averaged a double double last season with one the highest percentages and he is slowly becoming a star
what area of his defense is underrated? john colliins defense has been awful in the pick and roll, on switches, his man to man to below avg. his paint defense is not great ( low post), transition is brutal.
While he does have some defensive lacks he isnt absolutely terrible on that end he has the athleticism and hands to improve simply bashing him for his defense is not fair
When I was trying to teach my daughter how to use her length well on perimeter defense, I showed her videos of Klay Thompson. Clicked as soon as I saw this video.
Last offseason, I wanted my beloved Celtics to throw everything at Klay Thompson. The idea of a Smart-Thompson backcourt was intriguing, pairing Smart with another high level defensive guard who also happens to be a great shooter.
The Celtics would have been able to run Smart-Thompson-Brown-Tatum-Big Man. This lineup would have been a lot of fun to watch and a defensive nightmare. Both Smart and Klay are very switchable, both able to defend much bigger players. Brown and Tatum are both able to generally defend one level up and also quick enough to defend guards. They would be vulnerable to traditional bigs, but with Klay's perimeter firepower and our athletic young core, Boston could very realistically run opposing big men off the floor while playing a smaller defensive 'big' like Theis.
Of course it was never going to happen, but with a drought of NBA activity, it's very fun right now to play with the 'what could have been' scenarios.
Marcus smart running the point ? Oh no lol.
Another incredibly informative and astonishingly amazing video. Keep up the good work Ben.
There are a couple of things missing in the analysis. Golden State is much more than the sum of its parts. Like Draymond's defensive skillset perfectly meshes with that of Klay.
Klay not only guards toughest defensive assignment but also wears them out with his constant hustle. That defensive hustle is what makes Klay great and Klay also shepherds the player he is guarding into a Draymond's range where he is likely to provide help defense.
Draymond uses Klay's hustle to provide great help defense and blocks and that is where Draymond's intelligence and positioning and hustle make him one of the best defenders in the league. Just like Curry and Klay make each other a lot more lethal when they play together by stretching the floor. Curry and Klay are more than the sum of their parts offensively and Klay and Draymond are more than the sum of their parts defensively.
shepherd analogy is great
Been wanting to see a video showcasing Klay's D. Thanks.
Why you wanting to see Klay's D?👀 sus
Dikota Williams You heard me.
Dikota Williams Ain't no problem. Booty is booty.
Great analysis. I am a big Klay fan but have also noticed that he can lose his man at times. However, to be fair, his primary defensive responsibility is usually to guard the elite (high usage) perimeter players, so whilst he does sometimes make mistakes, most of the time he is adding great defensive value. In short, I believe that the sum of his value defensively far exceeds the impact of his mistakes which is why he is so highly regarded.
Like with many players, it's a question of how to use him. Great on-ball defender, weak off-ball defender
That's where good coaching and team construction comes into play. The reason why the warriors where so good in the last years.
CJ McCollum breakdown would be really interesting
As a Nuggets fan that is sore about Urkel knocking us out of the playoffs I would like to see this too. The guy is so crafty at getting buckets
Can you please do a video on Kawhi Leonard's defense? His reputation places him as one of the best defenders in the league and everyone always talks about him being a lockdown defender, but his advanced defensive metrics haven't lived up to his reputation in the past few years.
Thomas Huynh because advanced metrics are often Impacted by your team defense. That’s why joe ingles was ranked the 4th best defender in the league last year
@@sydneycole3180 Not sure which metric you're looking at, but if you look at NBA Defensive Real Plus Minus (DRPM) Ingles is only ranked 16th among small forwards while Kawhi Leonard was ranked 44th. www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/DRPM/position/5
A lot of people will point to team defense, but I don't think that statement alone explains enough. Ingles is ranked high because the Utah Jazz plays good defense? The Raptors as a team had good defense too. In fact, the Raptors were the 5th best defensive team in 2019.If you look at the top 6 defensive NBA teams of 2019, basically all of their premiere defenders had a good DRPM except for Kawhi Leonard and Klay Thompson. Giannis, Gobert, Turner, Paul George, Horford, Marcus Smart all had great advanced defensive metrics.
stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1
Also a big misunderstanding that many people have is confusing real plus minus for raw plus minus. Raw plus minus is indeed heavily influenced by a team's performance and a player's teammates. Real Plus Minus (RPM) isolates the plus-minus impact of each NBA player by adjusting for the effects of each teammate and opposing player. With a DRPM of 0.02, Kawhi Leonard barely has a positive impact (according to the stat) and is ranked 44th among NBA small forwards.
www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/10740818/introducing-real-plus-minus
I'm not necessarily saying Kawhi Leonard is a bad defender, but I think his case deserves a deeper explanation than "it's because his advanced stats are impacted by team defense". Also, I want to add it wasn't always this way. Kawhi Leonard ranked 1st in DRPM among small forwards in 2015 and 2016. He was ranked 3rd in 2014.
Can you do a video of Anthony Davis? I think people forgot how good he was. Another 🔥 video by Ben and is by far the best anylatic channel for basketball
Kababy Loadmanagement now he has :)
Great thinking, Ben!
I've got a couple of questions regarding Klay in the context of other defending guards:
1. Klay has a lot of tools, as you pointed out. Offensively, he has a much smaller role than most of the other guards (literally no ballhandling or creation). Does that lead to more endurance that he could use on the defensive end? Because he is strictly an off-guard on offense, he can focus on the defensive end.
2. One of your major points is the opponent eFG%. And that looks impressive. But is this stat reliable? As the name points out, it only counts, when the offensive guard takes the shot. If he passes (one of the most common things a lead guard could do) the metric can't account for this. As you showed in the graph Thompson's opponents took significant less shots against him. Well, that could be good - or it indicates, the opponent could find an (open) teammate. Only one metric to back up your eye test seems a little less.
Nevertheless, Thompson is a really good defender, but I think, we can't really back that up with metrics in general, because we don't have the tools to evaluate defense on a player level. The lack of reliable metrics is our biggest problem.
Can you please do a breakdown for untucked jersey Kyrie
I think he’s number 1. Guys like kawhi and Butler often take the tough assignment only towards the end he takes them while he’s on the floor often 40 feet. While contributing on offense (off ball moving ) while guys like kawhi don’t move off ball .
It helps that Klay is usually matched up with opposing guards who are way more of a threat on ball than off ball, so his off-ball weaknesses don't get exposed all that much, while his on-ball prowess gets magnified before our eyes
Would you do a video on Mike Conley or Jrue Holiday? This year, both of their numbers have gotten rather close to those of some star point guards in the league, but i am really curious, when broken down to analytics, defense included, how they fare against guys like Kyrie, Kemba, D'lo Russell when it comes to impact metrics.
This analysis shows that the Warrior's defensive scheme and team construction match up perfectly to Klay's strengths. He's best as an on-ball defender against slashers, and his primary defensive role is on the opponent's best ball handler. His weaknesses also correspond to the strengths of his teammates, as Draymond Green is one of the best ever at providing timely help to save a defensive possession.
It's interesting that one of the best off ball offence players ever is a bad off ball defender.
Overall, objective, with data to support, Klay can always improve, the shady foul leading to his injury against Toronto, side comment here - not cool, but Klay is solid, humble, versatile, and most important - my favorite NBA playa! #MVP
Do a video on Michael Jordan’s defense. I’m only able to find highlights of his defense and I feel like breaking his defense down would be interesting.
Read his backpicks GOAT series
Great video and music as usual! Really looking forward to a Porzingus video! Curious about his longevity and health with his play style.
i wish this guy was the one working on 2k player rankings
The only player in the whole league that can fit into every team PERFECTLY. ZERO ego, sometimes to a fault, can dribble decently and functions off ball.
I bought KT4 LOW for approx. 40USD and I love it.
i was cooking and thinking about this exact subject, sat down and you've got a video for me. synergy! great video
I think a video about who you WOULD have on your all defensive teams would be awesome. Even just the guards as a follow-up to this.
Can we get an analysis of MJ using your metrics and analysis as a baseline for these modern players? It would be a lot of fun to watch.
Klay is like the anti draymond when it comes to defensive anticipation. One of the examples use to show klays lack of quickness seem to be just him not anticipating what the offense was doing well and not knowing where to go
He is a really good defender, he is always given the toughest defensive assignments and does his job well
Thinking Basketball: Good defender with some clear assets and noticeable liabilities
Every Commenter In Other NBA Channels: HE SHUTS EVERYONE DOWN HES THE STOPPER
Basketball is a team game. Golden State can play shutdown defense and Klay and Draymond are a lot more than the sum of their parts when they play together. Klay provides the defense with the hustle and energy required to keep up with best offensive guard in the opposing team. Draymond uses that hustle to make intelligent defensive plays.
I have now thought about 3:30 for a solid 3 minutes.. If that is not teammate goals I dont know what is. Steph just goes to the smaller guy knowing that Klay is able and (even more rare) willing to switch to a much more difficult matchup for the good of the team. This sequence alone should push him to all-D first team
You need to make an all defense and all nba teams list. I would like to see how your list stacks up to the NBA’s list
Your videos are the best, favourite basketball on RUclips
Klay been a Superstar since 2016 if not before go look at the playoff run he had with steph missing games and him closing out teams
One doesn't get to just pick the advanced metric that most backs up what they think they are seeing. If they do this they might as well not use them at all.
Klay guards the toughest matchups on the opposing teams and the advanced analytics have him as one of the better on ball defenders in the league
@@Thanosdidtherighthing If I remember correctly my point was that he looked at three different advanced stats that contradicted each other, and then said "eh this one kind of agrees with what I thought before looking at the stats so I'm going to say it's correct". He was using stats like a drunk person uses a lamp post, for support instead of illumination.
I love all your videos i wish you could make them everyday keep up the good work?
How do you think he’s gonna do coming back off injury having to play small forward?
Great video🔥🔥🔥
I was just reading about Klay Thompson/Danny Green comparison today so kinda interesting that I got to watch this video too. Was basically saying Klay is clearly a superior on-ball defender but because of how good Danny Green is at actively stopping cutting plays from happening he blows him out of the water in DRPM.
"Why is it Danny Green is so much more impactful in DRPM than Klay Thomson when we can clearly see with our eyes Klay is good at defense? The answer is Cutting defense. cutting is the most efficient way for a team to score, so preventing cutting opportunities becomes the most important skill defensily a player could have. Klay Thomason is a great on-ball defender, but we tend not to notice his off-ball defense. While Green is a good, not great on-ball defender but his off-ball preventing cuts is something we never even think about. Still though, because preventing off-ball cuts is so important Danny Green DRPM stats show a far greater impact."
dddiop Kobe was elite at both
it's actually amazing to see this channel praise steph to high heaven and sound this down on klay, who almost completely eliminates the need for steph to defend the toughest position in basketball. i can't wait to see steph play this season alongside noted defensive stalwart d'angelo russell
TheRulersBack18 I was saying the same thing. Curry is protected so much by Klay Iguodala Draymond and KD all of those are top defenders at their position.
@@deeperson7711 btw, obv steph got hurt early this season, but warriors were getting SMOKED to start the year
Can you do a video over Zion and what you project he could be in the NBA?
You should be making minimum 10 min vids to get the multiple ads your content deserves. You have a few that are just shy of it which should change. This is the best analytics driven NBA channel in RUclips. Get paid, sir.
yeeees a new video!!
Klay is a defender that as fast as guard, way taller, stronger, tougher, and have higher IQ and willingness for defense.
Can you do a video on the pattrick beverley defensive impact
I really love Klay but this video exactly explains why I don't love him being at the 3 and that they should still look into trading D-Lo after this season. When he's going against smaller guards/nonathletic fowards on the perimeter, he's amazing. His size, strength, and plus still being quick on his feet really disrupts them but when he comes back, he's gonna literally have to guard every team's best 3/4. So on some nights that means he has to guard Kawhi, PG, Lebron, AD, Giannis, etc. and that's literally asking way too much for a guy coming back from an ACL tear.
You should do a vid on the best perimeter defenders and defenders in general
Klay should have been All D for a while now tbh. Glad he finally made it.
Do Deandre Ayton, he deserves some spotlight considering how good he is
Klay be smoking that shit
I’d love to know how valuable you think ben simmons and giannas are because of their lack of shooting and spacing compared to ball dominant guys like lillard and kemba and steph. Love the channel!
You should do a series where you analyze every team
I’d rate him as an Above average defender
ur really good at this...... a team needs to hire you if they haven't already
To me he's easily one of the best defenders in the NBA. So versatile and a guy no one is looking to iso on. Incredible how much defensive talent golden state has possessed this decade
Good video. Looking forward to Zion analysis once the season starts.
Klay is good
Humble guy who plays great defense and shows up in crunch time... Also guards the most explosive guards and can switch onto big's and hold his own... also splashes 3's for breakfast. What more could one want!?!?!
360 dunks in China.
The best two way players in the league right now.
Can you please do a video on Steph's underrated defensive he is a better defender than a lot of guards like Lillard, Kemba, Kyrie and Westbrook
Curry is not a better defender then Lillard, Kyrie, or Westbrook, just stop.
@@BkBenji. yes he is going by defensive stats or the eye tes. Lillard and Kyrie are worse defenders than him
I'm on the same boat, think hes well above average actually
@@NationOfChalcol yeah he is not no damn defensive liablity like the Media potrays him
Just make sure klay is defending on ball and you'll be all set
Here after his return
Please do Lauri Markenan
This made me realize why they traded for Wiggins. he will help on defense a lot. klay is a great iso defender an in the paint or off the ball one.
Can we get a Dejounte Murray or a Eric Bledsoe defensive breakdown?
when you guard consistently the best players on every team, and arent caught on switches for opponents to get you off the best player, your defensive ratings and advanced stats will be a product of guarind mainly star players and rarely role players etc. make him look worse than he really is.
Industrialcurtain not really. Defensive ratings and plus minus are based upon team defense while that player is on the court. The Warriors have been significantly better defensively when klay has been on the bench for years, leading to his terrible advanced metrics. An important factor the video points out is that klay often gets subbed out for iguodala, who is one of the greatest defenders in the league, so it looks like klay is hurting their defense because hes not as effective as iguodala. Regardless, advanced statistics like real plus minus generally minimize the role of teammates when determining ratings and still say klay is a bad defender so we cant pin it all on iggy. The video points out the major flaws in his defense. Klay is a below average off ball defender and a terrible rebounder. This coupled with his great on ball defense makes him an average defender.
🐐
So basically what this video says to me is if Klay had even slightly above average athleticism, he’d be in convo for DPOY every year. Almost all of his “flaws” are due to his lack of athleticism and not necessarily anything wrong with his technique. All that being said, top 5 SG in the league
I dont think Klay uses his hands enough. He always has them raised even on drives to the cup which is overall a good thing but a guy like Pat Bev uses his hands to touch up his man, slow them down, make them feel you even more than just with the body and, of course, better steals chances plus his man has to worry more bout protecting the ball and might be less aggressive.
One of the best shooter in the league and can play D. What else u want more if u are a team.
Always great content
Jalen Brunson/Mitchell Robinson video called “2nd round steals”
Great point about how stepbacks are a weak point for him!
For real how did he not get 1st, 2nd or 3rd team all nba
manuel barajas he sacrificed while Durant was there
Can you do a Malcom Brogdon analysis video?
Klay learned everything from Curry. Curry is the best all-around defender in the NBA. When he was a rookie, I saw him shut down Dwight Howard in his prime, in 2012 lockup Miami LeBron, and as we all remember, has led the league in blocks the last ten years. Too bad he can't shoot tho...
Can you please do a Kobe Bryant defense breakdown?
Good vid, as always. Give me Klay every day, he’s the 2 any coach wants.
Clay like dream