Things Just Got Outta Hand! The Smoking Gun Has Been Found For This CGC SCAM...
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- Опубликовано: 20 дек 2023
- In this video I give an UDPATE on the The9.9Newsstands instagram post where he discovered a possible huge SCAM for a CGC 9.8 Mark Jewelers Newsstand ASM 252 sale - a smoking gun has been found by Ryan at Automatic Comics. This now officially needs to be run up the flag pole! Ebay, CGC and The Reholdering department all have a horse in this race.
What do you guys think? Would love to hear your tinfoil hat thoughts...
Automatics Video - • CGC Reholder Scam!!! I...
Original Post - / the9.9newsstand
CGC FORUM - boards.cgccomics.com/topic/53...
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#comics #comicbooks #scam
CGC RESPONDS!! ruclips.net/video/AAyFMTAm4CA/видео.htmlsi=9C8A_U8iDmevVUun
The beauty of this is... if the scammer actually mailed the book to the buyer via the USPS, he has committed mail fraud--a federal offense. So, up to 20 years in prison.
as long as someone brings up charges
@pbales - That's what I've been saying.
FBI investigations don't always result from independent charges being brought forth.
@@Geoffreydarcy-pv4mq. Still need a complaint.
Thatmay be true. At the same time if he sent it back to CGC before selling it, is that on him of CGC? I've never done a re-holder, but I do know that state you're not guaranteed to maintain the grade, blah blah blah. Based on anectodes I've kind of interpreted that as as long as nothing wierd happens the grade will probably stay the same, bit no guarantee. All this new info makes everyone think they are just blindly putting it in a new case. Very interesting.
Does anyone believe for a minute that CGC can self police themselves here? An independent audit needs to be done.
If I'm CBCS I'm going on an advertising blitz about the durability of the CBCS case. I'm offering conversion discounts for people to send in CGC slabs and discounts for new customer accounts.
I cracked and pressed my own Hulk 181 so I am sure mine is legit. This sounds like an inside job! CGC needs to investigate and clean house!
This sucks. I feel all my slabs are in question. Thanks for bringing this to light.
Sounds like one immoral individual.
@@Comicbookyoutubersrocki’m sure there is a lot of this going on, this guy just happened to get caught cause someone did research
Just looked at his eBay account. All books have been taken down
All CGC has to do is put a proprietary UV Code on every inner well that ties comic to Slab. They can check code for every reholder. Easy fix👍.
AGREED!
But this would also eliminate the reholder loop hole that they have been profiting from for years.
This won’t fix the problem. It will just force the scammers to open the slab completely. It will just make it harder.
@@ComicCryptoStockbetter to make it more difficult than just letting them do it
@@ComicCryptoStock it would stop easy inner well swaps. If they still wanted to do it they would have to risk cutting sealed inner well and possibly damaging comic. Plus the hassle of resealing it. Much harder to accomplish without damaging comic and changing grade.
The CGC CASE has been compromised. I have been CPR’ing since 2004. Through that time I have never seen a CGC case cracked without tampering being evident. Here’s my 2 cents. Either the culprit was able to secure cgc cases in used from some source then took another graded book, removing the label ( just slides out of top of inner well) replace it with the higher label, seal it and submit for reholdering. OR it’s an inside job! In either scenario the buyer should be made whole and the culprit should be persecuted and jailed. Some would say it’s just hobby, but for many this how they put food on their table. This a collector spending $ on a sham. Quality Control needs to be put on notice!
I'm positive that the people at CBCS and PGX are super sad about this story. It's pretty clear that CGC, with things like Sig Series and custom labeling, have sought to maximize their profit and distance themselves from the competition. This is totally an opportunity for CBCS to reduce that value gap.
Now that their labels aren’t horrible I think they have a chance. It was always the labels for me at least.
Idk how you can say that's the case. What's to say the re-holder process isn't susceptible to the same level of errors and complacency that's being accused to CGC in this case?
CGC is going nowhere.
Been hearing that since CBCS came onto the scene.
@@chrisjoyce6610 don't get me wrong, I prefer CBCS' cases, both for their appearance than for their ruggedness, plus, their grade consistencies and fairness.
Possibility? There's a mole in CGC. This individual is a cgc employee, or a team of folks are working with a cgc employee as an inside man to make thousands off of these fraudulent books.
there are sooo many employees at cgc. the odds that the inside guy is going to get these books when submitted is a roll of the dice. i think it’s just negligence by cgc
Cgc employee has a guy that buys books, or he does it himself, and the employee brings those books in himself. The books never go through the entire process. There is no order submitted. No invoice or receipt. But the only way for this to happen is if they have access to the labels as well as the reholdering.
That, or, since all these books are submitted for reholdering, maybe the amount of people working in that department isn't as large as we think.
@donaldvonglitchenberger4108
I wonder where the original books are.
I know very little about the CGC facilities but the first thing I’d investigate is whether it’s feasible for one or two employees to visit a CGC building during non-business hours and seal comics into slabs without being recorded/observed or leaving any obvious evidence of their after-hours presence.
I don't see how this gets done without someone on the inside.
I tend to agree but it's possible he might be switching labels and if he can recreate the custom label that opens up possibilities for not sending in to CGC. Will be interesting to know how it was done and how it will be stopped.
CGC should make the cert numbers public for this person's reholders. Since the community is the one that found this out, they'd also help find and locate the fraudulent cases. Then at least the owners could seek legal action to recoup their losses.
I wonder what the total financial loss across the comic industry would be if people lose all confidence in CGC
It would be catastrophic
CBCS could be the only shining light
CGC unknowingly helped this person commit fraud. They need to reimburse people for the loss. Simple.
CGC won’t reimburse anyone.
I don’t understand why CGC is liable. Now if they do not act then they may be liable. They should know who submitted these books.
Someone at CGC knew and that makes all of CGC responsible. We knew they were a clownshow and now we have proof
CGC will offer a discount on grading services more than likely.
We don't know how the scam was done. Are we sure they were reholdered? Could it be a switch of label rather than book?
Imagine all the reholders that haven’t been caught ……..yet
There is no way the ebay seller isn't involved. This is fraud and theft, this ebay seller needs to be banned and arrested. Who is the seller, so I and everyone else can block them.
looks like the name is comic selects on ebay from the picture
It looks like the seller has already been banned by ebay
Buyer info and sales history on this book return zero results on eBay today. How does that work for transparency! The results should never disappear, fraudulent or not, IMO.
@@tshew1 it's there if you search for the book but now listed under a new name shiva3 or something like that until you click the link then it shows comic selects
@@tshew1 100% agree!
I just hope Cgc isnt in on the sham. I think ANY comic resubmitted should be inspected.
I'm of the opinion they are and I think someone inside is in on it. Not CGC the company, but an employee of CGC. It would be just too easy.
@@shawnmichaud4484yeah. I am thinking inside job
It’s a scam!
No way are they in on the scam. They make so much money per year they don’t need to be shady. Why would you kill the goose that laid the golden egg?
Most likely, if there is any cgc involvement, it's probably an employee gaming the system
You have nailed the problem for CGC exactly. The only thing they really sell to customers is trust. And once that’s gone, they have nothing.
I know the popular theory is that CGC trusted the seller and labelled it Mark Jeweler insert but if he was making Franken-books then he could have taken a Mark Jeweler insert from a non-key book and "manufacture" a Mark Jeweler book from a cheap donor book like he probably did with IH 181. He's probably running a comic book "chop" shop. The answer seems pretty clear for CGC, no more reholder only service. Everything gets re-graded if you get it reholdered.
My opinion: No way the resubmitted books were "mistakenly" or "poorly " graded. There must be a connection between the seller/submitter and someone working for CGC, i.e. it's an inside job.
Tough to prove right out but it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility.
What IF the comic book scammer simply has the SAME equipment at his disposal as what CGC uses. All he would have to do is crack the plastic slab, remove (or maybe even just Duplicate the CGC tag) and reseal the crappy comic in a new slab with the original tag (or the duplicate tag) and send it off to be relabeled by CGC.
The more I think about my "theory", the more it seems difficult to pull off. a scam for sure tho. Too bad @@AnaheimRob
Yes, I just saw that on a different comment. Former employee maybe? You would think the equipment would be very expensive I have cracked many slabs . Even tho I was not looking for a way to slightly open the slab and do the old switcharoo, it sure would be a very delicate procedure to not damage the case.. This whole thing sucks. Hope they get caught.@@kyleklmondwa9042
@@kyleklmondwa9042 You never know. People who want to steal from others can sometimes be very clever unfortunately.
Hey Swag, so I’ve been interested in this topic for a while now, personally I believe the process has been replicated by other sellers AND there has been an obvious change in the standard of grading since Blackstone’s acquisition of CGC.
That said, I received a CGC slabbed 9.8:1975 Joker #1 white pages today, my grail book, and I have to return it because of a major miswrap and glaring color rub plus creasing on the bottom right corner. It was so bad my own mother asked me if it that was acceptable for a near mint comic… my own mother people haha
We as a community can’t allow an assigned grade on a case to determine the books actual value. My best recommendation to everyone is to always buy the book not the grade, now more than ever. Always verify your big book purchases. If we plan on the book appreciating in value then why would we accept standardized slabs with massive price variation between 9.6 and 9.8 when the book itself can be contested by the common eye. Something fishy has been going on the last two/three years with CGC
Jay z > blackstone
At this point, someone could take a AF15, photocopy every page, slap the book back together send the dupped book back in for re-holder plus the pages for grading. Shoot, this may have already happened.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men.... the shadow knows....
also just realized i was bidding on one of those ASM #300 from this seller! Wow, totally dodged a bullet there.
Same, but FF4. I meant to bid that up. Guess it’s a good thing I forgot to be there 😳
Your coverage on this has been impeccable. I started following your channel because of this scandal. Dave at collector comics pointed out that the af15 Stan Lee Ss was signed in 1986. And it got a yellow label. Well that was before CGC existed.!!!!
The problem with looking up the cert# in GPA to see any past sales, the seller could have purchased the book originally at a show, FB marketplace, instagram, etc and those sales you can not track. Whoops.
I usually watch your program on full screen tv so don't get to support your site. This along with another program are the best 2 in 5 years.....amazing integrity and clarity...i owe you at least 30 thumbs up...
Great detective work
Some people will say buy raw but we also have issues with people restoring comics or selling restored comics without saying anything
It’s not hard to tell if a book has been restored. Even professionally.
color touch is difficult and with the delicate nature of a comic one feels funny even thumbing through it to do a simple page count @@darthrooster1
You definitely put a spotlight on these type scams & those looking to do same in near future. Big thanks for this. Kinda sad when at one time a kid friendly hobby turns produces crooked individuals....
A few suggestions: some kind of tamper seal on slabs. QC needs to be independent of Operations or a straight-up third party. This WILL slow down the grading process but it adds transparency (a term CGC in particular has been lacking imo on several fronts).
Other thoughts: more robust raw grading services like CBCS has? Is the future raw grading + removable cases?
Nice work by the dynamic duo of Ryan and Mickey along with every other sleuth. I hope the offender gets the worst!
The only way to truly be sure would be for CGC to issue a recall on every re-holdered book beyond a certain value so they can re-evaluate them. But that can never happen.
that's a great idea.
No need to recall, offer a special new symbol on the books so we all know it went back through the proper process.
No more quick re-slabbing either, every slabbing goes through the proper screening
Wonder how many times he has done this and just now being caught. Maybe he works for cgc...
Would be nice if everything could be backtracked and charges brought forward for fraud amongst other charges. Im sure the original scam artist has probably done this many many times. We had a guy who owned a sports autograph store. He had thousands of baseball cards signed by baseball players. He had a machine in the back room that would trace their signatures. He was only discovered when they found 10 of the same items that were signed but the baseball player said he only signed 3. They really need to prosecute the comic scammer. Im really wondering how he switched books in holders?
Given how much easier it would be to do, I'm guessing that the switching is of labels and not books.
Sounds like a comicCON
God bless America. Where there's a will, there will ALWAYS be a way.
I thought ebay took down this seller not sure I never confirmed it. wow there is a alot of silence going on with big selllers. how long has this loophole been going on? is that why you see some books not being the grade on the slab...
Thank you!!!!
Oh man this update came quick!
Is it as simple as a inside job? The seller is friends with someone at CGC OR he works for CGC??
Or is friend with someone who makes the slabs?
@@Comicbookyoutubersrock why wouldnt you imagine? It seems more plausible then they found a way to crack a slab in such a way CGC cannot tell that the innerwell was removed.
@@Comicbookyoutubersrock this would be a bad actor WORKING for CGC. They of course wouldnt support such actions.
Moving forward, NO ONE should purchase a re-holder book without first doing their due diligence. Track down the cert number, make sure that it has never been re-holdered. If it has, examine the two book images.
Thanks for your efforts Detective Swagg🕵🏻. No way this hasn’t been going on for years…they just got greedy and got caught. Scammers, you have been put on notice by the comic community. Keep grinding bro!✌️
Detective Ryan
This is going to have massive repercussions in the hobby. CGC better do big time damage control.
Been saying this shit for decades. Scammers will figure out a way to open up the case, take the book out and then slip in a lower graded copy and then reseal it. It can't be that hard to do. The real question to be asked is how many swapped out books are actually out there?
I would hate to be one of the people that bought one his books, you have to assume they all are compromised.
Every single one, past and present, is compromised, I bet.
I doubt CGC will do anything meaningful in this situation. They'll probably make mention of it and hope it goes away, like the acetate covers. I personally think the guy has found a way to reholder the books himself. Despite CGC's flaws, I can't see them blindly reholder books at high grades and not noticing the flaws.
Since we know what book was swapped in don’t we know the owner of that book through registration? Then again CGC sent me back 5 graded slabs that remain in their system as “grading and encapsulation” so how accurate is their registry actually
PGX is sitting back and having a good laugh because they are looking a little bit more attractive these days. Crazy times!
Inccoming books to egs ! Great video swag.
The weird thing is the sheer number of books.. If they went back through CGC it would seem that multiple people would have had to handle these books. I can get fooling 1 or 2 people, but fooling that many people is an issue.. unless the same person handles all reholder issues.
It's amazing and great that you caught this.
He didn't. Others deserve credit for that.
Oh got it. Everyone that discovered, investigated, and reported it.@@Geoffreydarcy-pv4mq
Swagg and Ryan putting the Hardy Boys to shame 😂
This is why the grading community needs to start using blockchain / Web3 technology to transcribe and document the submissions/grades. The art community is already doing it and it has solved the issue of bootlegs, fakes and trickery.
TRUST won't solve it.
The blockchain is immutable and can store all transactions and images of the comic. Let’s get out of the Stone Age here!
dumb, its not going to solve anything. keeping track of the census number isnt the issue, a tampered case is the problem.
@@bvandermeersch You need to learn more about the Web 3 space and how using an immutable ledger will help keep record of an entity. As long as an image is recorded on the chain, nothing can change it. Serial numbers are NOT the only thing recorded, images are as well.
To your point, if you crack and switch a book, that book can easily be referenced on chain and verified. Otherwise, you would have to waste valuable time researching for hours if a book on eBay is legit.
When this person gets caught, watch them hire him as a security advisor, a la Catch Me If You Can. 😂
What matters now is whether people will continue to use CGC after another integrity violation. As long as most of the community renews their memberships and keeps submitting books then this whole drama is worthless. The only solution is to not give CGC your money nor buy their books on the secondary market.
That 9.0 giant size x men 1 you bought for 9k has a missing page inside.....omg
Looks like eBay has shut down comic selects eBay store.
His sold history is now non-existent.
Never seen this happen.
because ebay will be on the hook to reimburse the buyers of the bogus books, ergo no trail.
ebay is definitely not helping CGC cover it up.
They covering their tracks is all. They are a big part of the hoodwinking. This was only the tip of the iceberg. Much, much more to come.
I wish people from the comic community would start a comic grading company with complete transparency. Having everything being video taped and available to the public. CGC does some wild stuff and I have personally lost so much time and money messing with them. Their poor people at customer service, I feel bad for because they try and do a good job but CGC management should be fired.
Someone has to make a better widget. The grading isn't good, criteria is all wrong, quality control is nonexistent and they don't stand behind their work. It's a guarantee company that doesn't guarantee anything.
I agree. Cgc has customers sign a waiver stating Cgc is not responsible for damage yet their employees are not careful with our collectibles. I recently had my second submission this year of 9.8 newsstand candidates damaged in handling by them. I have no recourse.
People love CGC labels so much; and CGC loves that easy relabeling money even more. Are we having any second thoughts now?
Facts it’s a money racket!
Isn’t the re-holder process meant to simply preserve the original grade and replace the case? How does this scam produce a better grade or a non-qualified grade?
@@adamchace Because the scam comic will be in a brand new slab; not one that’s been tampered with or opened. This scammer found a flaw within CGC’s reholder/relabel process.
CGC doesn’t have the best track record when it comes to completely sealing cases over the years. So, when they see a book in a slab that isn’t perfectly sealed, they probably don’t think too much about it.
Or, the scammer could have sent books back to CGC for reholdering for free by claiming that there was a mechanical error and the cases weren’t sealed properly. And then, the scammer could add on top by saying to CGC, “how about I pay for new custom labels?”
Whatever the case is, this scammer found a flaw in CGC’s process. Also, reholdering a book with a custom label would make the slab look like a completely different copy than the book with the same authentication number.
Do I understand the problem? Would this help?: Get rid of reholdering all together and comic books would be regraded and the cert number would be retired and a new one given. Essentially, every time a comic is submitted, it gets treated as new. Also tamper seals on the four sides. The grading is invalidated if tampered or removed, just like on a new device.
I'm still confused as to how this scam is done.
It’s likely he is able to remove the book without breaking the case and just replaces it with a lower grade or qualified book and sends it to get the new customer label. And apparently if you send it to get a new label they don’t check or regrade the book again.
But how does it get a mark jewels on the label? Wouldn't CGC have to open the book to verify?@@CollectorsFix
Not piling on here but I’ve been scratching my head about CGC’s approach and business practices for years. I knew a fellow who had bought every Marvel from 1961-1965 off the stands. He sent key issues to them in 2017. The grading and handling left something to be desired. Especially the grading. I’d swear it was all handled by an underpaid intern who didn’t understand comics. I had NO financial interest in this, and by their OWN standards, each book was at least 1 to 1.5 below the correct grade.
Swag l love how you and Ryan have very informative videos well done research. It’s amazing how it’s done.
Reholstering just went up in prices now.. watch
Time is money
We should a round table about this
Got me afraid to even buy slabs on Ebay now. I saved the sellers name but he/she doesn't have anything currently listed. Feedback is 96% when I clicked on feedback link it had a completely different name listed.
They should post a list of all the reholder books that came from that scammers CGC account and offer to regrade those books and match the price difference between what the buyer paid and what the book is actually graded. IE: the difference between the 9.0 blue and 8.5 green
Yeah right, I’m sure they’ll do that. 😂
Absolutely, It is the only way to gain back some trust. CGC let it happen they should fix it. CGC unknowingly helped this person commit fraud.
Yes, they need to do the right thing.
CGC could scan front / back covers on expensive books and upload it to a database on their website tied to the cert number? That way buyer could search the cert number and compare.
Why isn’t anyone saying the word “fraud”???
Doesn’t look like that seller has anything up on eBay anymore
looks to me that his entire ebay store had all new items removed? (if there were any still for sale?)
Hi swag, question for you, does CGC have an employee number who works on the books listed? If yes, is it the same employee working on his books?
Looks like his store was removed from eBay. It’s all empty now
Ryan did such a great job, following your lead. Have CGC made a comment yet?
This is CRAZY
People scream at me why I dont buy CGC slabs. Its stuff like this right here. Just like an appraisal on a house, its just an opinion of price and its only as good as the person doing the appraisal. While I dont know how CGC grades comics, I can tell you ive met some property appraisers that are nearly illiterate and only got the job because its their dads company.
What's stopping someone at CGC from letting someone get access to the proprietary tech that slabs the books? Are the machines all accounted for? Has someone on the inside, allowed someone to order a machine from the manufacturer? All of those possibilities are plausible...CGC needs to speak on the matter. How is is that someone can swap a book into one of their holders, without any physical evidence on the slab - Regardless of how carefully you "pop" one of those cases, you are going to scratch it or gauge the plastic, something.... Someone would need the slabbing machine, that's the only way. I don't have a horse in the race because I don't collect paper and plastic but this situation does suck for the community. Comic books are already not doing good because of you people....there won't be any comics in like 5 years because nobody wants any new stuff.
It's actually probably even easier than that. Just take a hammer to one of the top corners, slip out the old label, slip in the new label and submit for reholdering. The damaged case serves two purposes: 1) to allow the perpetration of the fraud (changing the labels), and 2) to give an obvious reason for the book to be submitted for reholdering in the first place (who wouldn't want a damaged slab replaced?). They don't even really need to try to make it look like it wasn't tampered with.
CGC has to regrade during re-holder...only way to stop this. I know people won't be happy with that as they are then gambling with a grade drop just like sending in for a signature series. That will also require a lot more man hours for the graders.
That opening... What is the irony in a "cat burglar" being captured by someone who was trying to catch him? Is this the Alanis Morissette version of "ironic," or did I miss something?
Just what the hobby needs when it is on its knees. You tubers playing judge and jury to create distrust on the grading process..👏
This is why buying from a reputable collection is important. My most recent Star Wars 1 comic is from the FANTAST collection with certification
Hats off to detective Ryan !
Yeah pretty bad… I am not surprised… but pretty bad. It’s an easy fix. One of the old cbcs slab forms had the label sealed in the inner well. Smash the outside all you want, had to cut label out to swap em. CGC should steal the design.
How long has reholdering been an option? If that’s the case, shouldn’t all books be called into question that have been reholdered?
CGC has to do some PR here soon. Their reputation all hinges on how they handle this situation. Hopefully any action taken by CGC would include publishing all certs submitted by this douchebag, and offering regrade at no charge. Anything fishy would ve bought out by CGC as they should atand by their labels.
the question is could you direct a book to an individual at cgc, like the reholder superviser otherwise it would be random people, or a method that would fool anyone, only two ways right?
He still has the raw “9.0” hulk 181 in hand
CGC should have detected this on their own. I took all my business to EGS for this reason because I trust they’re grading more than CGC.
Looks like another hulk 181 8.5 has been found to be switched. Was a green lable 8.5 missing page 10. I would assume then that those big silverage books, used to be purple or green labels before. Seems like cgc has a big hole in the new label proces. It seem they don't regrade based on this information. Should be a easy fix for them. If that's the case.
Looks like his store is shut down already. Not sure if its by him or ebay.
Here’s a solution. Publically list every book that this account has reholdered and offer to buy every single one of them at FMV. The G in CGC has to stand for something
We live in a world where people get in strangers cars. We also have strangers renting rooms to people they don’t know, and then we have people sending their beloved comic book possessions to people they have no idea who are touching them and we all just trust everything to be OK.. lol. I mean, at a certain point people have to take responsibility for their actions.
CGC knows who owns the books and who graded the books. They'll want this covered up.
Surprised no one from eBay has outed the return address.
@@ssettle If CGC does not do the right thing, then it would be on the shoulders of the buyers who got defrauded.
If the inside capsulation is ever open makes the grade null and void
Hey swag. Thanks for this information. Quite disturbing. I wanted to know if you think ebay should also get involved. They usually protect buyers from these scams. What do you think?
Just about the best argument to buy CBCS. The question is not whether one is paranoid but whether one is paranoid enough. If anyone could pull this off it would be someone who has access to the machinery to reholder a comic book. Who can do this other than someone at CGC itself, or perhaps more insidiously, their competitors? This is a death knell for our hobby. I predict that reholdering without regrading will no longer be an option except for extremely rare circumstances such as damaged on shipping.
Why? The same thing could happen at CBCS. They don't have any better process to prevent this than CGC. And their holder can be resealed, the same as CGC.
CGC is coming to light first, because they are the top grading service and their slabs command a premium. But nothing about this makes the problem unique to CGC.
Your comment also points to a couple of other questions - where exactly do the grading companies obtain the machines that create slabs and seal them? Has that manufacturer perhaps produced more of these machines than the grading companies ordered? Would there be any way to determine this for certain?
@@reprintranch There are thousands of companies that use ultrasonic welders. There are different sizes and types, but all basically function the same. For slabs, there is a special fixture that attaches to a basic "core" welder. This fixture is made to fit the size of the slab, and literally just bolts onto the welder.
So a person could make their own aluminum fixture and mount it to any machine of the right size, made by any of a dozen companies that make ultrasonic welders. Or China has companies making Ultrasonic welders, and China already has either copies or recreated the fixtures needed for existing slab sizes, and they will sell you the machines and fixtures.
There are also research papers into how you break an ultrasonic weld. I think the leading method is that you have a special vise that allows you to gradually squeeze on opposite corners (top left - bottom right, top right - bottom left). You do one set of corners and then flip over and do the opposite corners. According to papers, this is the best chance of breaking a weld, and you just slowly apply pressure and there should be a point where the weld breaks, before the base material does.
The weld may not completely break, but it should break in at least one spot, making a small gap, which you then insert a metal bar or use a sharp cutting tool to continue breaking the rest of the weld. Then there are different techniques to how the bar/knife is used to break the remaining weld without damaging the welded parts.
The cost is prohibitive to the average joe ($3k for a welding machine and fixture, plus making the special vise and other tools), but for someone doing it since 2011 and sometimes making several thousand dollars per book, its a small startup expense.
And just consider how many hundreds, if not thousands of fraud slabs are out there if they really have been doing this since 2011! And what if they aren't the only one doing it?!
Question on the 181. This is subtle, but please stay with me on this.. I believe that this is a different issue than the 252 Mark Jeweler. Here's why. If I buy a graded book missing a page, I'm allowed to open it... Right? I mean, it is my book... and I can throw away the label and the case - They are mine - Right? And I'm allowed to marry pages on comics I own... or roll the comic up and put it in my back pocket... Right? And, I'm allowed to send a book with married pages in for grading - and no where in CGC's submission process do they ask if I happen to know of any hidden or hard to spot defects... Right? In this case, it's not a case of a customer cracking a case and getting it reholdered... Right? THIS is a case of someone marrying a leaf, and CGC not catching it - which is the entire reason for CGC's existence. This reveals CGC's incompetence and lack of standards. Now, if the seller subsequently sells it and didn't reveal their knowledge of the flaw... well, that's aspect is fraud. But we have no way of knowing that they intended to game the CGC submission process to get a blue label out of the process. We have no way of knowing if the person who submitted it was the person who bought it when the had the green label. Someone else could have bought it, married, it and sold it to the submitter.
Bravo Mickey. You never know this could be a product of organized crime. But this is seriously big big news. Also love your Avengers run