First tests impressed me enough to pre-order the F6. The dual analogue to digital converters work really well in dialogue recording tests so far. $650 USD at time of launch.
That price makes it not just a MixPre-3 but also a MixPre-6 killer, with that many inputs. Unbelievable. I was expecting about $800 with those features. It’s a noob’s dream no-fuss audio recorder.
RedBearAK as a user of MixPre-6, Zoom L12, H6, H1 (and very likely the F6 in the future); I imagine there is a nicer/warmer sound/EQ on MixPre series, I always find it awesome out of recorder and Zoom in need of a minor EQ tweak. MixPre also allows you to connect a cheap midi control interface, and two L batteries instead of one. So I imagine both will be competitive and F6 will be unbeatable for one man band scenarios where you cannot rig camera and recorder close to each other; which is very common for what I do for charities. No time to setup, so no feasible way of getting cables right without risking audience tripping on them.
I'm not sure if this was answered in the thread of comments below but I believe Timecode Systems recently released the UltraSync Blue which is aimed at using Bluetooth for TC on set. They've been trying to partner with different manufacturers to get their Bluetooth TC implemented in new gear. Maybe the BT Timecode option in the F6 is adopting that.
Brilliant review as always. If anyone wanted to watch 3-4 unbiased and honest reviews of X product, yours MUST be one of them! Thanks for your hard work.
Wow, that demonstration of the clipped audio was remarkable. What a powerhouse recorder this is. I can see where this would be an awesome recorder for recording a live band rehearsal, and obviously awesome for videographers.
on a list of questions on the sellers side someone asked about "chaining" these to get more channels... If I remember right, the answer was, noup but with time code possible to sync in post prod.
@@curtisjudd Musicians are amazed - at least this one is. We've known about 32-bit float but dual converters aren't that common yet. Looking forward to new ways of tracking vocals since you apparently get super low noise in addition to ridiculous headroom. Not only that, it'll make the learning curve that much easier for beginners should they have the budget. In addition, having some different preamps than just my interface's is something I'm looking forward to trying. That and the analog limiters and built-in FX. Wondering how that reverb will sound as a hardware send and how ergonomic and convenient it'll be with a MIDI controller and the Musician App for songwriting and such.
I just wanted to second many of the sentiments here. Thank you for all you do for the RUclips community, the audio and video community, and for anyone looking for clear, thorough, reviews on cutting edge tech. You're a fantastic role model and teacher. 🙏
I’m sold! It’s pricey for my budget. Well worth it,as a one man crew. To just hit record and not worry about clipping is amazing. Spend more time on filming! Thanks for the review and help you given me!!!
mfeltster I’m thinking the same thing! - where there isn’t a dedicated audio person to monitor levels this is killer! No worries about clipping or too quiet, especially with a couple of different volumes talents. Now I can just focus more on the video shooting, lighting etc...
same here...focus on the performance and not 1 other thing to worry about. Yes, still do proper settings....but less of a headache and more flexiblity in post. Some people here are hating on this market - claiming we are not pro's. Who died and made them god?
I am blown away with the capability of what 32bit float can do and the method of dual ADC. I still love my Tascam DR60D mk2 but I'd love to have my first Zoom. I did had the chance to play with the F4 and I felt that Tascam was better. But now we have a new horizon. Thank you this video is extremely helpful, especially when you explain the way things work.
Wow you sold it to me. Imagine recording music with this as well (which I do as a hobby). I can whisper and shout and not worry about clipping while the vocals are being recording. Wow. Amazing. Thanks for another great review Curtis!
As a music recordist it's great that it won't clip...but can someone who actually has used an F6 speak to the QUALITY of the musical notes being recorded? Is a recorded cello "sweet"& warm woody sounding...or is it hard, digitally bright sounding? Or has it demonstrated to anyone who has one that it's solely dependent on the mics used.
@@luisnlupe Hi, it isn't shipping yet - should ship late July as I recall. In my short time with it, I didn't have a chance to record music (I mainly do dialogue production sound for video projects). My experience with the Zoom F4/F8/F8n and now F6 preamps is that they're not what most people would describe as warm or sweet. To my ear, they generally sound more clinical. Using different mics can make a big difference, of course, but if you're looking for preamps that impart a sweet or warm sound, this probably isn't the #1 choice.
One use for this for those of us that do larger scale “Real World” style shoots, would be for an unmanned car rig. On some of my shows, we use an SD 633 that lives in the trunk of the car. My A2 will dial in the rx before cast enters and hit record, often leaving the recorder to roll on nothing while cast gets ready to exit. With the Bluetooth functionality the A2 can engage recording right as cast exits. The dual ADC and 32bit architecture would save from any headaches that an unmanned recorder can cause. Another good use would be when cast are in boats and there’s no room for camera and audio (cameras shoot from follow boat). Throw the F6 in a freezer bag or heavy duty Tupperware and you’re off to the races. Losing a Zoom to water vs an SD, is a lot less of an L&D price tag.
Ok I’m sold. I hate to say this, but as someone that isn’t very strong in audio knowledge this seems like the EASIER way to go. Just “set it and forget it” and it seems like dialogue would be very easy to adjust in post. Of course, you still have to try to control for echos, random noises and acoustics, but this would definitely help speed thing up on set.
I do not need another recorder. It would be insane to buy yet another recorder. I am almost certain I will buy this one. Very cool device. Seems perfect for one man band where recorder is far away from camera operator. Will await full reviews eagerly.
Okay. I have a Mixpre-3 and love it - the performance, the layout (headphone knob works fine in my strut bag), display. But I feel like I need to upgrade because 3 XLR ports sometimes aren't enough. 4 would be fine in fact. thus I've thought about stepping up to the Mixpre-6. However after seeing this, I would greatly appreciate you weighing in on this and maybe in July, doing a shootout comparing the this to the Mixpre line (3&6 sine the 10 is an entirely different animal). I am a run & gun one-man band sound mixer/boom op so I really want to be sure I have the best equipment for my needs. That sort of work is NOT paying enough to get in to the SD 600 series, Zaxcom or any other "pro" gear, especially where I am located.
Yes, will definitely speak to that question in the final review. I am really, really impressed with the F6, but I don't consider it the right choice for every situation and I'm not planning to sell my MixPre, F4, or F8.
This is exactly why I don't want to get the MixPre 3 ii - I'll be immediately maxing out my inputs. One stereo in and a mic and we're through. Currently, I'm not doing podcasting, ambisonics, band recording, etc. but - if I ever do - the 6'll be there. That and who wants to use and keep track of 1/4"-to-XLR adapters? Thank you for confirming that this is a good device but that one more preamp, three more tracks & two more outputs are something for which we are better off spending.
wow thanks again for proper evalustion!!! this is interesting on my use as a musician/producer and a naturesoundscape producer! was planning to get mixpre6 in near future and this makes is difficult!
The Adobe Audition lift and diminish of that audio BLEW MY MIND!! Ok, you’re going to get asked this if not already...MixPre-3 or this??!! 😁 Man...and people say I cost them a lot of money! 👍👍👍
Hahahaha! I think the MixPre still has the edge in terms of ergonomics except for the headphone knob on the side. And if you gain stage correctly, the MixPre produces amazing sound. I think where the F6 really stands out is for solo doc shooters, maybe wedding shooters, where you only get one shot and you're doing EVERYTHING at the same time (camera, directing, sound, PA, etc.)
@@curtisjudd From your first impressions, would you say that there is a noticeable (or measurable) difference in sound quality between the MixPre and the F6?
@@FelixRau Yes, if you gain stage correctly, the MixPre sounds a little different, with a touch more low-end response. If you totally botch the gain staging, then the F6 has the clear advantage. 😀
@@curtisjudd OK. It has become obvious to me you need some training on the way life works now. See...you TELL me which one to buy. That way, if anything goes wrong, I don't have to take any responsibility for doing any of my own research, AND, I can blame you (even years from now) if someone else tells me something is better. C'mon...get with the program! 😀❤😂
Dear Basic Filmmaker. Get the MixPre and the F6 and the Sound Devices Scorpio while you're at it. That should cover every situation and I know that you are tripping over massive piles of cash at your home so this will solve several problems for you. Unfortunately, none of these make coffee and I'm hoping that Sound Devices or Zoom figure out that the Basic Filmmaker leads the type of lifestyle that demands incredible sound quality and incredible coffee quality from a single device. How's that? Better? 😂
Hey Curtis! 32 bit float is such a great feature. My Motu 1248 audio interface has 32 bit float capability. I purchased it a few years ago and absolutely love it.... Having it in an affordable portable device will be a game changer... Thanks for the overview! Cheers, Greg
@@curtisjudd That's a good question... I would need to go look at the specs. Although in the studio when recording say a vocalist I always gain stage anyway. While in school for audio engineering they taught us to record on a 32 track board to a 16 track tape. Yes tape! Sound checks are important. :-)
I received my zoom F6 today. and just went straight away hooking it up and installing batteries and SanDisk 4K 128 150MB extreme Plus card connection. Can’t wait to turn it on.
I wonder if the USB port can be used as a back up recording to a thumbnail USB drive? Like with the MixPre10T That would solve one of the issues I see with the Zoom F6, no dual recording! As even an extra MicroSD card in it would've made me happy.
This will help me out loads, you've sold me on this. I often worry about my H6 peaking or being too quiet when I'm shooting a bar mitzvah and there's a super loud entrance song/dance and then a really quiet kid speaks into the mic.
Prob an UNPOPULAR OPINION: This seems to me like a game changer for the entry-level market... but not really an upgrade for any sound mixer who knows what they're doing. If someone is worried about clipping either they haven't been doing sound long enough or they're in the wrong business. Let's put it this way: Would you sell a self-driving car to a Formula 1 driver? you can try but you'll probably get better results if you aim it to people who can't drive. In audio, the entry-level market happens to be not great - and the profesional market is very expensive - so in that context this is a game changer indeed...and it also looks as an extra tool worth trying / keeping as backup, but as I said before... not an upgrade for anyone who's looking to build a career in audio engineering.
Thanks for the perspective JC. As a part-time location mixer, I'm happy to add it to my kit, but it won't be my primary mixer/recorder mainly because of its form factor and ergonomics. But there are definitely times when the wide dynamic range capabilities will be very useful. Note that Zaxcom has a similar thing in their pro-level transmitters and mixers. Same with Sonosax. Those two are definitely in the pro level market.
Well... as much as this is the case....your disregarding an emerging market of freelancers who cater to a wide market. From indie to corporate video. I for one, am not a pro sound recorder, but need that quality for my shoots. Many times, budgets don't allow for that resource... but i still need the clean audio. And I work with some of the biggest brands in my market...but because they are doing internal comms or online video, don't need the big crews. Because I am primarily a video shooter, this is the best tool to cover me for my shoots. When I have bigger shoots, I will bring in a pro to handle that department. So...I am no F1 driver in terms of audio, but that does not mean I want 16 year old driver student skills. This bridges a big gap in a market that you don't fit in. So leave us to our amateur audio skills looking for pro results. There is nothing wrong with that.
@@storycafeafrica1910 I never said there's anything wrong with what you describe. In fact, I said this is a game changer for your market. By the way, no machine won't give you "pro results", education, experience and skills will. This things are just tools.
@@jcgorritti again, your assuming I have non of those (education, experience, skills). I like to believe I do. Clients including Barclays, Mars and Mercy Corps have retained my services. Many a time, I don't need a sound guy on set... but I have had issues with audio. And that is why i see this tool as giving me "pro " results as a non pro. It's not assuming its a magic box that will do the work for me. Its giving me more room to fix problems when they occur. For many of my shoots, I don't need a 633 or many of it features...but with my work, this tool gives me closer to pro results without becoming an audio pro myself or hiring one for every job. I , along with many people commenting here merit in our profession. And I always see "pro's" who have been in the game for a long time demean upcoming professionals insinuating we have no clue. Even if that may be the case, we are learning as we go. Heck, you were not born with your skills either! And we know the tools which will make it easier for us to get better and better results. So... I understand you don't have to worry about clipping - your in a crew with other pro's... but I do. And that remark is the most snarly , "I know more than you" condescending comment someone of your experience level can make instead of sharing tips and suggestions like Curtis Judd is doing here.
I can't quite get my head around how it works, but that doesn't matter! Pulling the audio from -60 - magic. This could be a great upgrade on my H5. Potential rival to sound devices?
@@curtisjudd ergonimics ...maybe. Am really on the fence here. Mixpre 3 or this. Single shooter, so most times no one to man the faders. This seems to cover me,but my cart at B&H has a Mixpre3.
@@storycafeafrica1910 Only you can decide for yourself. Having used both the Zoom F series and Sound Devices MixPre series, I would choose the MixPre for myself. Others can choose the Zoom F series for themselves and that can be a great decision as well. One note that is very important here: The example of recording and then boosting in post - I recently tried this on a MixPre recording and it works there as well. So this is not just something one can get with a Zoom F6. And the ergonomics with a MixPre are far better than the F6 in my experience. The ergonomic benefits are pretty big in my work when I'm operating the device for a full day at a time.
Thank you Curtis. I live in Tokyo and spoke to Zoom today. I believe we're getting a late July release here in Japan. I feel this will make my F4 obsolete, but that's not a bad thing. This F6 looks truly outstanding. The one thing I will miss is their proprietary input because I often find the HHS-6 & MSH-6 mics and especially not being able to use the EXH-6 Capsule any longer for the 2 additional XLR inputs. However, I think that's a small price to pay especially for the 32-bit Float capability at that price.
ok... So I'm looking at this with my jaw hovering very close to the floor. When you bring up your -60dB (recorded) audio up +100dB, HOW does it not bring the noise floor up +100dB as well? I mean, there's no such thing as 100% clean audio through a microphone because even room noise is still noise... amplifying up up +100dB should bring the noise floor up at the same ratio. So what's going on here? I mean, a device that can effectively remove Signal to Noise Ratio out of low level recordings would be practically priceless to audio engineers. What if the recording environment is a bit noisy in the case of, say, a run'n'gun outdoor environment, etc... does it keep the noise floor on THOSE types of recordings in check as well?
Hi Dave, the noise floor does increase 100dB in post as well. The reason it isn’t a problem is that the recorder is able to record with so much dynamic range that it isn’t a problem. Yes, if you record in a noisy environment, that will all be captured based on the polar pattern and characteristics of your microphone. But you shouldn’t have to worry about the recorder contributing to the noise.
@@curtisjudd wow. Truly amazing. I will be watching for your consumer-release full unit review. Seems like this kind of kit will be impossible not to pick up. 2019 seems to be truly a gear-hoarder's year (Rode, Zoom, etc... :) My Tascam DR60-MKII is a work horse, but I may be migrating to Zoom this year.
@@curtisjudd but if the sound comes in clipped... your screwed. At events, many sound/PA providers do not send a clean signal. If they send it with grounding issues, or clipped....no recovering even with 32 bits because it has been processes already on the sound board
This is amazing, and to think I actually laughed when I heard about 32-bit recording, since even 24-bit is often useless with the noise floor recorders have. The form is certainly not for me, but I'm sure there will be more reasonable looking machines in the future. I'm very curious to see how the competition will react.
@@curtisjudd But in your demo of the MixPre, you recorded a very low-gain signal and when you boosted it, you said the noise floor was lower than it would've been. 24-bit with one converter picks up about 70dB of noise with a mic attached but I was under the impression that the dual converters helped with this.
Pay no attention to the drooling foley artists in the back row. They spend too much time alone to know how to properly show their enthusiasm for such a device.
Lmao I don't know what industry you work in my good man but Foley artists are never alone, they need their Foley mixer, a lot of time a 2nd Foley artist too
@@namdo8958 I am in the industry of keeping the good-natured humor going in Mr. Judd's comments. I appreciate the insight; I would be intimidated to even try foley.
@@insanejughead I agree, humor is much needed especially nowadays in this sensitive modern society. However, I don't see the point of putting down a certain group of professionals that have nothing to do with the subject matter just to have fun
Just received this yesterday, the camera bracket was included. Slightly traumatized by the power I hold in the palm of my hand now. Its...insane. Jam Sync'd my slate with no problem. Its really amazing seeing how technology has advanced since picking up production again recently.
From official site: "ZOOM F6 PRODUCTION DELAY During our initial production for the F6 Field Recorder, we discovered a mechanical component that needed modification to assure consistent, overall durability. As a result, delivery of the F6 Field Recorder has been rescheduled for later in the Fall/Winter of 2019. At Zoom we have always been committed to providing the highest quality products possible. We apologize for the delay and appreciate your patience and understanding. " New date: 2019-12-16
I'm a mainly one man band video shooter. The dynamic range on this will be a godsend. So many instances where it would save you during event recording. Will definitely be buying it.
I've been waiting for your impressions since this product was announced. Awesome. I can't wait to hear how this compares with the MixPre series. I'm ESPECIALLY excited to see what Sound Devices does to answer this new offering.
Thanks Devin. I was told by Samuel at Zoom that the F6 has the same preamps as the F8 and we did a sample comparison of the F8 and MixPre here if you’re interested: ruclips.net/video/Hnvq-6M1adE/видео.html Not sure whether the new ADCs make a difference. I didn’t notice a difference yet.
Five hours from the upload, 315 likes, zero dislikes. I don't remember this acceptance ratio in any video I've seen. You got a great channel Curtis, and great people following your always interesting contents. Congratulations. Now I'll grab your views over this new Zoom. Greetings from Spain.
Superb review as always Curtis. The initial diagrams are really helpful in their own right to explain mic and line levels and gain staging to novices. You're a star!
We will have to see how it fits in a bag. From strictly an ergonomics perspective, I like the MixPre3 better because it is thinner. From a professional usage perspective, the 32 bit recording capability probably overrides any ergo differences, particularly for the price. Sound Devices will have to come up with something spectacular to compete with this.
I agree that the MixPre series have better ergonomics. If I've got to mix all day from a bag on location, I'd still probably pick the MixPre. But if Zoom adds the dual A/D converters and 32-bit float to a recorder like the next gen F8, that'd make it even more compelling.
It's a bit funny that they made volume controls almost obsolete, but cramped the little real estate available, with the 6 knobs. I am also very excited about this technology, which I am sure will force a shift for the entire industry. Thank you for your reviews! Excellent work!!
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions I agree and you are not wrong. I'm sure they weighed the options carefully...The F6 is a very cool little recorder. Thanks!
Very cool. Being a photographer, this is one of those, "why didn't **I** think of that!?!" kind of things. We do it in photography all the time...HDR, bracketing, etc. Hell, our cellphones even do HDR automatically now. I never thought of applying that to audio. Very cool.
Yeah i might have to get one. My medium Ktek bag with the bigger battery in it and all that stuff does weigh on my back after some hours. Thanks Curtis.
Looks phenomenal for travel too. Just did a shoot in France and Portugal where we had to leave behind the Zoom F8n bag just because of the space. Ended up mounting it to the RED. Weird but worked. This looks like that could actually be a standard workflow while traveling with a small crew where a camera operator is also monitoring audio.
Really cool. I have been using the DR-100 MK II and have been eyeing the Mix-Pre 3 as an upgrade. This zoom seems even better, I hope the technology trickles down into cheaper devices.
Thanks Curtis, another excellent first impression. I am about to buy my first recorder for various projects. My budget allows for any recorder up to the price of a MixPre-6/Zoom F8n. So it's interesting to see these new (for Zoom and Sound Devices) high-quality recording options come out on a model that is below those two recorders. Devil is in the details I imagine so a full review should prove enlightening. Looking forward to it. Thanks again.
Thanks Curtis. I've been looking forward to finding out more about this. Certainly on my wish list. Thanks agin and looking forward to hearing more from you.
OMG this is MAGIC! Great video and now I will be selling my F4 and F8 for this recorder because it's a no brainer. The one SD is not great but everything else is good. Always enjoy your content man.
Haha! Definitely a nice step forward in terms of dynamic range. You might consider keeping one of the others. I find the F4/F8 much easier to use in terms of ergonomics and the F6 is more a special purpose recorder.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the advice. That was the other thing I noticed was the lack of that menu nob. What do you think about the lack of dual SD slots?
@@TristanBarrocks Yes, there are several things which make the F6 a little more "special purpose" than the F4/F8 which are more general purpose. I definitely miss the menu and headphone volume knobs. I know that dual card slots are very important to many people, though I haven't had any issues with any of the SanDisk cards I use so I can probably live with the single slot. However, from a purely ergonomics point of view, I would still prefer to use an F8 rather than the F6 for a typical sound bag location sound job.
Man, this is fantastic. Great news that it's seemingly panning out as we had hoped. My mixpre 3 was great, but near unlimited flexibility in post is the greatest thing I have ever heard haha
Great initial review Curtis! It seems that Zoom just might have ceased most new F8n sales with this release until they update the recorder to include dual analog to digital converters and 32 bit float... it would seem silly to buy an F8n knowing where zoom is headed, unless you REALLY need a pro-level recorder on a budget right away. Clipping is a real concern and a decent recordist can avoid it in almost all cases but even a great recordist has to think about it and plan ahead. Any recordist would love for that extra concern to be a thing of the past... and now it is.
Hey Curtis we spoke via my other account. I was looking at the Zoom F6 but am torn between the F6 and the sounds device mix pre 3. The reason I was Interested in the F6 is because of its form factor which is similar to the Tascam DR69d which I attach to my camera rig . I like the F6 because of its form factor because anf it's 32 bit float file & high dynamic range. The week link in my audio change with my Rode NT5 & NTG3 is the Tascam DR60d. The audio on my documentary was only ok and I want it at its best . The Mix pre 3 would offer excellent audio but the Zoom F6 offers the potential to be more forgiving if I make mistake in my audio settings and thus avoid distorted audio. To cut to the question why is it that you feel the F6 is not the best move from the DR,60d. And that the mix pre 3.would better move from the Tascam. Sorry for the long question and for asking your advice on this subject again. Thanks as always for your excellent input. Jean-Francois
Hi again! The F6 is more difficult to use from an ergonomics point of view. For example, the channel knobs are very crowded on the very small front panel. The menu requires the use of four buttons to navigate vs the MixPre's touchscreen. The MixPre has the ability to also record very wide dynamic range and also has superior limiters in case you set your gain too high. But you can run the gain very low and boost it just like we demonstrated here with the F6. The MixPre just goes about capturing that wide dynamic range a different way. This is all my opinion having used the F6 for only two days so it isn't totally conclusive and it is subject to my opinions and preferred way of working. One question: Are you booming the NTG3 and NT5 or are they mounted to your camera rig? If mounted, you'll get a bigger improvement in audio quality, even with the Tascam, if you boom them over the talent. You probably already are doing this but I mention it just in case. Didn't want you to invest in a $650 recorder and find that your audio quality hasn't improved much at all. :)
@@curtisjudd thanks Curtis you honest view are appreciated. I do both boom and if need the mics are on the rig. But from what you say, it will be better with the .ix pre 3. I promise not to contact you again about this. Thanks again . You are part of a rare breed o. RUclipsrs that reply to comments. Thank again JF
Once again a great video Curtis. On my wish list is the Zoom F6 and the Sennheiser MKE 600 mounted on the camera but on my desk roughly 18 inches away from me, in a talking head type scenario. Thank you for your many in depth reviews across RUclips. Peter.
Such a good review :) Thank you! I think the main benefit of the size is it can easily tripod mount with virtually any camera. I have it under an XC15 and its dreamy!
@@curtisjudd why does it start timing after start up with no mics plugged into it seems like its a record timer but not recording sorry about the silly question
The step up from Zoom H6 will be incredible for me. Looking forward to it. The only real downside for my use personally is that they’re ditching XLR/ 1/4” combo jacks, which I find very convenient. I guess XLR only has a much more shallow profile, and because of that they could make the whole device smaller. But I’m using a lot of 1/4” cables, so cable adapters/ dedicated XLR to 1/4” and 1/8” cables will add bulk to carry around. XLR cables are heavy. But I can live with that. Would be curious to hear if you have an overview of what DAWs that support 32bit float. Is it widely adopted already, or is it a standard on the rise?
Hi, I suspect you’re right - the combo jacks take a lot more room internally. Waiting for the dual ADCs to make it to the rest of the F series makes sense for a lot of people. I believe all of the major DAWs support 32 bit wav files presently.
@@curtisjudd do you see any issue with using an XLR to 1/4 TRS cable (or converter) for guitar, bass recording? That's the main issue I see for my uses, I want to record music with this beauty.
I'm pretty certain this would suit me doing shoots on the go. Gear weight is a huge factor in my work running from interview to interview, so this light little device might be an option. Thanks Curtis.
I'm really (pleasantly) surprised that this is only US$100 more than the F4! As you were going through the good performance and nice features, I was suspecting it would have been priced at the same level as the F8. From Julian Krause's video on the topic, I may have misunderstood, but I though that he was speculating that the lower level A/D converter might bypass the preamp, which would avoid the noise from the amplification itself, and also avoid the amplification of any noise in the chain at that point, but from your diagram, it looks like both A/D converters work on the signal from the preamp. If it works well, and has low noise in the recording that's all that matters! One small/odd thing I've been wondering for a while is wether for a 2 (or more) camera interview setup, where the cameras don't have TC in, if something like Tentacle Sync boxes could be avoided by splitting (and possibly attenuating) the TC signal from a recorder like this, through cables, and into the 3.5mm audio in jacks on the cameras. TC boxes would still be necessary where multiple cameras are moving around (and or the "sound guy" is moving around), but for more "fixed" setups, cabling the TC from the recorder right into the cameras would save money and mean fewer "gizmos" to deal with while shooting.
Hi Thomas, Julian and I are both speculating about how the analogue preamp stage works here. So far, ZOOM hasn’t revealed that level of detail, probably to protect their implementation. Yes, you should be able to run a TC signal directly from the recorder to cameras and you would need to attenuate and split the signal and find software to convert the audio TC to metadata TC. But it should work!
Curtis Judd when you say that software is needed, that’s what Resolve and Tentacle’s software does (when it works) correct? (And that the BMPCC4K does when it gets a TC signal in the 3.5mm jack.) It will be interesting to learn all the details on the F6, so I’m very much looking forward to your review! Thanks!
@@tomdchi12 Correct - Tentacle Sync Studio which almost always works or Resolve which works about 50% of the time when it comes specifically to the task of converting audio timecode to metadata timecode.
Hey! Great video, Curtis. I'm really enjoying the educational segments you've been adding. I do have one question about the USB connectivity. When you're using it as an interface on the computer, is the USB able to draw power concurrently or does it require an additional power source at that time?
Hey Gerald, yes, if the computer's USB port supplies the 5V per the USB 2.0 spec, it'll power the F6. I've found that some laptop USB ports don't supply the full power, but usually at least one of them will.
Amazing piece of kit for us mirrorless guys, and fantastic value for money. I guess It’s finally time to invest in better quality mics now, as 32 bit should really allow us to hear the difference in quality. Whereas before, the pre amps in the mixer would mostly crush that extra little quality difference. I’d love to see a direct comparison between this mixer/recorder and the mix pre 6ii.
Thanks for such a great overview. Very helpful insights, especially appreciated your basic explanation on AD converters and the benefit. As for the ergonomics, I agree it’s a bit of a pain to set up. I decided to order the blue tooth piece and see if that makes workflow easier.
Looks ok, just ok. I have the need for line level inputs, Taking sound from a board or the occasional real-life device. If I'm spending that much, I'd step up to a mix-pre. If they switch to Neutrik combo jacks for production - then I'd really consider it.
@@martinXY Correct, the XLR inputs are mic/line selectable in the menu. Dexter seems to need 1/4" TRS line inputs. I spoke to Zoom who said they used XLR only on this unit to keep it small. The combination jacks take up a lot more room internally.
@@martinXY I agree. I look at the F6 as a specialty recorder for the type of work I do. I wouldn't want it to be my primary recorder, but the size and wide dynamic range features would make it a good choice in select situations. In fact, my Sound Devices 633 has XLR only inputs. I live with that reality by using adapter cables when necessary.
I know this camera I'm going to reference wasn't out at the time but others with similar technology were. I think a better analogy than comparing the dynamic range capability to RAW video would be comparing it to a camera with a DGO sensor (dual gain output sensor). Specifically, it is like comparing a Black Magic Pocket Cinema 4k to Canon C300 III, Canon C70, or one of the many Alexa cameras which contain dual gain output functionality. This allows for you to take in the highlights and shadows without clipping either similar to the two AD converters taking in the quiet and the loud and summing them together to give a wider dynamic range. Might be a better analogy for some of the video guys who watch your stuff, particularly now that you've done the F3 and F8n Pro reviews.
Any analog input recorder is clippable. It may be cleverly designed with multiple-converter switching such that it will not clip the AD converter(s) prior to the analog input stage overloading, but the dynamic range limits of the analog input stage then becomes the bottle-neck rather than the converter. It all depends on the EIN noise floor and overload limits of the input stage. Once the signal has been digitized, the dynamic range within the 32-bit floating point storage "container" is immense. One of the problems I've encountered with F8 is accommodating really hot inputs (music recording using high-sensitivity condenser mics in high SPL conditions). Even with input trim turned all the way down to +10dB I must engage the limiter to avoid clipping. Zoom specs state an maximum input level of +14 dBu with limiters turned on. I take that to mean that with the limiters off, the overload limit is presumably +4dBu, as the advanced limiter pads analog input sensitivity by -10dB prior to the ADC. Would be nice if switchable input attenuation was without engaging the limiters were possible.
In regards to Hirose or external power, there are plenty of Sony batter dummies with cord and connector floating around, so you can still connect to managed power ;)
really interested to know whether the gain cannot be adjusted whilst recording 32bit float. is there a huge impact? because thats the one has been holding me buying Zoom F6
The gain CANNOT be adjusted when recording in 32-bit float mode. ZOOM's perspective is that you do NOT need to set gain. Instead, the knobs become faders and the tracks are recorded post-fader. The end result from ZOOM's point of view seems to be that you can achieve the same thing with post-fader recording. Sound Devices, with their MixPre II series recorders approaches this differently. They do allow the operator to adjust the gain in 32-bit float mode.
Does this Zoom offer multitracking, similar to the H6? In other words, can you track, once trk at a time to SD, and listen to the track and overdub to the next and the next internally to SD
Hi Fastguitars, I didn’t see any multitrack/overdub capabilities with this firmware. I think they keep the focus on sound for video and film with the F series recorders
First tests impressed me enough to pre-order the F6. The dual analogue to digital converters work really well in dialogue recording tests so far. $650 USD at time of launch.
That price makes it not just a MixPre-3 but also a MixPre-6 killer, with that many inputs. Unbelievable. I was expecting about $800 with those features. It’s a noob’s dream no-fuss audio recorder.
@@RedBearAK A killer from the dynamic range perspective, but not necessarily from the ergonomics perspective. 😀 Unless you add that F-control.
RedBearAK as a user of MixPre-6, Zoom L12, H6, H1 (and very likely the F6 in the future); I imagine there is a nicer/warmer sound/EQ on MixPre series, I always find it awesome out of recorder and Zoom in need of a minor EQ tweak. MixPre also allows you to connect a cheap midi control interface, and two L batteries instead of one. So I imagine both will be competitive and F6 will be unbeatable for one man band scenarios where you cannot rig camera and recorder close to each other; which is very common for what I do for charities. No time to setup, so no feasible way of getting cables right without risking audience tripping on them.
I'm not sure if this was answered in the thread of comments below but I believe Timecode Systems recently released the UltraSync Blue which is aimed at using Bluetooth for TC on set. They've been trying to partner with different manufacturers to get their Bluetooth TC implemented in new gear. Maybe the BT Timecode option in the F6 is adopting that.
@@notafilmmaker2024 Yes, that would be really nice if they worked together!
Brilliant review as always.
If anyone wanted to watch 3-4 unbiased and honest reviews of X product, yours MUST be one of them!
Thanks for your hard work.
Thanks!
Agreed!
Wow, that demonstration of the clipped audio was remarkable. What a powerhouse recorder this is. I can see where this would be an awesome recorder for recording a live band rehearsal, and obviously awesome for videographers.
Impressive how it handles that and yes, would be interested to hear the perspective of musicians on this.
@@curtisjudd A F6 with an ADAT in would give more channels for band recording. 6 channels is maybe not enough for a band recording.
@@BastianSchick but there is no aDat-in yet :(
on a list of questions on the sellers side someone asked about "chaining" these to get more channels... If I remember right, the answer was, noup but with time code possible to sync in post prod.
@@curtisjudd Musicians are amazed - at least this one is. We've known about 32-bit float but dual converters aren't that common yet. Looking forward to new ways of tracking vocals since you apparently get super low noise in addition to ridiculous headroom. Not only that, it'll make the learning curve that much easier for beginners should they have the budget. In addition, having some different preamps than just my interface's is something I'm looking forward to trying. That and the analog limiters and built-in FX. Wondering how that reverb will sound as a hardware send and how ergonomic and convenient it'll be with a MIDI controller and the Musician App for songwriting and such.
I just wanted to second many of the sentiments here. Thank you for all you do for the RUclips community, the audio and video community, and for anyone looking for clear, thorough, reviews on cutting edge tech. You're a fantastic role model and teacher. 🙏
Thanks so much, Andrew! That made my day!
I’m sold! It’s pricey for my budget. Well worth it,as a one man crew. To just hit record and not worry about clipping is amazing. Spend more time on filming! Thanks for the review and help you given me!!!
mfeltster I’m thinking the same thing! - where there isn’t a dedicated audio person to monitor levels this is killer! No worries about clipping or too quiet, especially with a couple of different volumes talents. Now I can just focus more on the video shooting, lighting etc...
You bet! Happy filming!
same here...focus on the performance and not 1 other thing to worry about. Yes, still do proper settings....but less of a headache and more flexiblity in post. Some people here are hating on this market - claiming we are not pro's. Who died and made them god?
I am blown away with the capability of what 32bit float can do and the method of dual ADC. I still love my Tascam DR60D mk2 but I'd love to have my first Zoom. I did had the chance to play with the F4 and I felt that Tascam was better. But now we have a new horizon. Thank you this video is extremely helpful, especially when you explain the way things work.
Thanks Csaby!
Wow you sold it to me. Imagine recording music with this as well (which I do as a hobby). I can whisper and shout and not worry about clipping while the vocals are being recording. Wow. Amazing. Thanks for another great review Curtis!
👍 You bet!
As a music recordist it's great that it won't clip...but can someone who actually has used an F6 speak to the QUALITY of the musical notes being recorded? Is a recorded cello "sweet"& warm woody sounding...or is it hard, digitally bright sounding? Or has it demonstrated to anyone who has one that it's solely dependent on the mics used.
@@luisnlupe Hi, it isn't shipping yet - should ship late July as I recall. In my short time with it, I didn't have a chance to record music (I mainly do dialogue production sound for video projects). My experience with the Zoom F4/F8/F8n and now F6 preamps is that they're not what most people would describe as warm or sweet. To my ear, they generally sound more clinical. Using different mics can make a big difference, of course, but if you're looking for preamps that impart a sweet or warm sound, this probably isn't the #1 choice.
One use for this for those of us that do larger scale “Real World” style shoots, would be for an unmanned car rig. On some of my shows, we use an SD 633 that lives in the trunk of the car. My A2 will dial in the rx before cast enters and hit record, often leaving the recorder to roll on nothing while cast gets ready to exit. With the Bluetooth functionality the A2 can engage recording right as cast exits. The dual ADC and 32bit architecture would save from any headaches that an unmanned recorder can cause.
Another good use would be when cast are in boats and there’s no room for camera and audio (cameras shoot from follow boat). Throw the F6 in a freezer bag or heavy duty Tupperware and you’re off to the races. Losing a Zoom to water vs an SD, is a lot less of an L&D price tag.
Great points, thanks Casey!
I've been waiting since NAB for this video, thank you!
👍
Ok I’m sold. I hate to say this, but as someone that isn’t very strong in audio knowledge this seems like the EASIER way to go. Just “set it and forget it” and it seems like dialogue would be very easy to adjust in post. Of course, you still have to try to control for echos, random noises and acoustics, but this would definitely help speed thing up on set.
I think you are the exact type of shooter they're aiming for with the F6. 😀
Curtis Judd I’ve been waiting since your NAB preview of the F6. But I really couldn’t tell it’s THIS small 😂
Oh man that is incredible! It would be amazing if Zoom made a 2 or 3 channel version of this that was ultra compact. Would buy immediately.
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I do not need another recorder. It would be insane to buy yet another recorder. I am almost certain I will buy this one. Very cool device. Seems perfect for one man band where recorder is far away from camera operator. Will await full reviews eagerly.
I know, same here. For many, it might make sense to wait until this tech makes its way into the larger form-factor recorders like the F8.
Zoom has really knocked it out of the park with this one, it seems.
Agreed! 👍
I am VERY excited for this product! Have just contacted my local retailer and told them to hurry up with listing it for preorder!
👍
Okay. I have a Mixpre-3 and love it - the performance, the layout (headphone knob works fine in my strut bag), display. But I feel like I need to upgrade because 3 XLR ports sometimes aren't enough. 4 would be fine in fact. thus I've thought about stepping up to the Mixpre-6.
However after seeing this, I would greatly appreciate you weighing in on this and maybe in July, doing a shootout comparing the this to the Mixpre line (3&6 sine the 10 is an entirely different animal). I am a run & gun one-man band sound mixer/boom op so I really want to be sure I have the best equipment for my needs. That sort of work is NOT paying enough to get in to the SD 600 series, Zaxcom or any other "pro" gear, especially where I am located.
Yes, will definitely speak to that question in the final review. I am really, really impressed with the F6, but I don't consider it the right choice for every situation and I'm not planning to sell my MixPre, F4, or F8.
This is exactly why I don't want to get the MixPre 3 ii - I'll be immediately maxing out my inputs. One stereo in and a mic and we're through. Currently, I'm not doing podcasting, ambisonics, band recording, etc. but - if I ever do - the 6'll be there. That and who wants to use and keep track of 1/4"-to-XLR adapters? Thank you for confirming that this is a good device but that one more preamp, three more tracks & two more outputs are something for which we are better off spending.
Almost bought the F4 and luckily this morning I saw this video in recommended. I'll be waiting for the F6 now! Whew.
Hi Michael, I still prefer the F4 and F8n for a variety of reasons, but we'll get to those in the F6 review, probably in the August timeframe.
Exactly what I was waiting for! gonna pre-order thank you!
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wow thanks again for proper evalustion!!! this is interesting on my use as a musician/producer and a naturesoundscape producer! was planning to get mixpre6 in near future and this makes is difficult!
We’ll talk about that topic more in the review.
The Adobe Audition lift and diminish of that audio BLEW MY MIND!! Ok, you’re going to get asked this if not already...MixPre-3 or this??!! 😁 Man...and people say I cost them a lot of money! 👍👍👍
Hahahaha! I think the MixPre still has the edge in terms of ergonomics except for the headphone knob on the side. And if you gain stage correctly, the MixPre produces amazing sound. I think where the F6 really stands out is for solo doc shooters, maybe wedding shooters, where you only get one shot and you're doing EVERYTHING at the same time (camera, directing, sound, PA, etc.)
@@curtisjudd From your first impressions, would you say that there is a noticeable (or measurable) difference in sound quality between the MixPre and the F6?
@@FelixRau Yes, if you gain stage correctly, the MixPre sounds a little different, with a touch more low-end response. If you totally botch the gain staging, then the F6 has the clear advantage. 😀
@@curtisjudd OK. It has become obvious to me you need some training on the way life works now. See...you TELL me which one to buy. That way, if anything goes wrong, I don't have to take any responsibility for doing any of my own research, AND, I can blame you (even years from now) if someone else tells me something is better. C'mon...get with the program! 😀❤😂
Dear Basic Filmmaker. Get the MixPre and the F6 and the Sound Devices Scorpio while you're at it. That should cover every situation and I know that you are tripping over massive piles of cash at your home so this will solve several problems for you. Unfortunately, none of these make coffee and I'm hoping that Sound Devices or Zoom figure out that the Basic Filmmaker leads the type of lifestyle that demands incredible sound quality and incredible coffee quality from a single device.
How's that? Better? 😂
Hey Curtis! 32 bit float is such a great feature. My Motu 1248 audio interface has 32 bit float capability. I purchased it a few years ago and absolutely love it.... Having it in an affordable portable device will be a game changer... Thanks for the overview!
Cheers,
Greg
Thanks Greg, good to know about the Motu. Does is also have dual A/D converters?
@@curtisjudd That's a good question... I would need to go look at the specs. Although in the studio when recording say a vocalist I always gain stage anyway. While in school for audio engineering they taught us to record on a 32 track board to a 16 track tape. Yes tape! Sound checks are important. :-)
as always you can count on curtis to deliver the best info , thanks mate great video :-)
Thanks!
The camera adapter is included. I just got mine today. Thank you Mr. Judd
Congrats - you must have one of the very first units shipped! Still waiting for mine. Good to know that the camera adapter is included.
Well done, Curtis. My favorite part was you screaming at the mic 👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Watson. What we really need to do is get this thing out on one of your car recording sessions and let the cars do the screaming! 😉
@@curtisjudd You know it'll happen, LOL!! Can't wait to get mine. ;-)
I received my zoom F6 today. and just went straight away hooking it up and installing batteries and SanDisk 4K 128 150MB extreme Plus card connection. Can’t wait to turn it on.
Happy recording!
I wonder if the USB port can be used as a back up recording to a thumbnail USB drive? Like with the MixPre10T
That would solve one of the issues I see with the Zoom F6, no dual recording! As even an extra MicroSD card in it would've made me happy.
Sound Speed! Really hope that’s the case
Here, here. Please count my vote for this as well.
Curtis Judd finger crossed
This will help me out loads, you've sold me on this. I often worry about my H6 peaking or being too quiet when I'm shooting a bar mitzvah and there's a super loud entrance song/dance and then a really quiet kid speaks into the mic.
👍
Prob an UNPOPULAR OPINION: This seems to me like a game changer for the entry-level market... but not really an upgrade for any sound mixer who knows what they're doing. If someone is worried about clipping either they haven't been doing sound long enough or they're in the wrong business. Let's put it this way: Would you sell a self-driving car to a Formula 1 driver? you can try but you'll probably get better results if you aim it to people who can't drive. In audio, the entry-level market happens to be not great - and the profesional market is very expensive - so in that context this is a game changer indeed...and it also looks as an extra tool worth trying / keeping as backup, but as I said before... not an upgrade for anyone who's looking to build a career in audio engineering.
For a mixer maybe but there are also pro people who record sound effects, where often unexpected things happen.
Thanks for the perspective JC. As a part-time location mixer, I'm happy to add it to my kit, but it won't be my primary mixer/recorder mainly because of its form factor and ergonomics. But there are definitely times when the wide dynamic range capabilities will be very useful. Note that Zaxcom has a similar thing in their pro-level transmitters and mixers. Same with Sonosax. Those two are definitely in the pro level market.
Well... as much as this is the case....your disregarding an emerging market of freelancers who cater to a wide market. From indie to corporate video. I for one, am not a pro sound recorder, but need that quality for my shoots. Many times, budgets don't allow for that resource... but i still need the clean audio. And I work with some of the biggest brands in my market...but because they are doing internal comms or online video, don't need the big crews. Because I am primarily a video shooter, this is the best tool to cover me for my shoots. When I have bigger shoots, I will bring in a pro to handle that department. So...I am no F1 driver in terms of audio, but that does not mean I want 16 year old driver student skills. This bridges a big gap in a market that you don't fit in. So leave us to our amateur audio skills looking for pro results. There is nothing wrong with that.
@@storycafeafrica1910 I never said there's anything wrong with what you describe. In fact, I said this is a game changer for your market. By the way, no machine won't give you "pro results", education, experience and skills will. This things are just tools.
@@jcgorritti again, your assuming I have non of those (education, experience, skills). I like to believe I do. Clients including Barclays, Mars and Mercy Corps have retained my services. Many a time, I don't need a sound guy on set... but I have had issues with audio. And that is why i see this tool as giving me "pro " results as a non pro. It's not assuming its a magic box that will do the work for me. Its giving me more room to fix problems when they occur. For many of my shoots, I don't need a 633 or many of it features...but with my work, this tool gives me closer to pro results without becoming an audio pro myself or hiring one for every job. I , along with many people commenting here merit in our profession. And I always see "pro's" who have been in the game for a long time demean upcoming professionals insinuating we have no clue. Even if that may be the case, we are learning as we go. Heck, you were not born with your skills either! And we know the tools which will make it easier for us to get better and better results. So... I understand you don't have to worry about clipping - your in a crew with other pro's... but I do. And that remark is the most snarly , "I know more than you" condescending comment someone of your experience level can make instead of sharing tips and suggestions like Curtis Judd is doing here.
Yeah I saw this at NAB and I could only say just WOW!!! and thanks Curtis
You bet!
I can't quite get my head around how it works, but that doesn't matter! Pulling the audio from -60 - magic. This could be a great upgrade on my H5. Potential rival to sound devices?
Definitely an upgrade from the H5. Tradeoffs relative to the MixPre Series from Sound Devices.
@@curtisjudd ergonimics ...maybe. Am really on the fence here. Mixpre 3 or this. Single shooter, so most times no one to man the faders. This seems to cover me,but my cart at B&H has a Mixpre3.
@@storycafeafrica1910 Only you can decide for yourself. Having used both the Zoom F series and Sound Devices MixPre series, I would choose the MixPre for myself. Others can choose the Zoom F series for themselves and that can be a great decision as well.
One note that is very important here: The example of recording and then boosting in post - I recently tried this on a MixPre recording and it works there as well. So this is not just something one can get with a Zoom F6. And the ergonomics with a MixPre are far better than the F6 in my experience. The ergonomic benefits are pretty big in my work when I'm operating the device for a full day at a time.
Thank you Curtis. I live in Tokyo and spoke to Zoom today. I believe we're getting a late July release here in Japan. I feel this will make my F4 obsolete, but that's not a bad thing. This F6 looks truly outstanding. The one thing I will miss is their proprietary input because I often find the HHS-6 & MSH-6 mics and especially not being able to use the EXH-6 Capsule any longer for the 2 additional XLR inputs. However, I think that's a small price to pay especially for the 32-bit Float capability at that price.
Thanks for the thoughts, Jason!
ok... So I'm looking at this with my jaw hovering very close to the floor.
When you bring up your -60dB (recorded) audio up +100dB, HOW does it not bring the noise floor up +100dB as well? I mean, there's no such thing as 100% clean audio through a microphone because even room noise is still noise... amplifying up up +100dB should bring the noise floor up at the same ratio.
So what's going on here? I mean, a device that can effectively remove Signal to Noise Ratio out of low level recordings would be practically priceless to audio engineers.
What if the recording environment is a bit noisy in the case of, say, a run'n'gun outdoor environment, etc... does it keep the noise floor on THOSE types of recordings in check as well?
Hi Dave, the noise floor does increase 100dB in post as well. The reason it isn’t a problem is that the recorder is able to record with so much dynamic range that it isn’t a problem. Yes, if you record in a noisy environment, that will all be captured based on the polar pattern and characteristics of your microphone. But you shouldn’t have to worry about the recorder contributing to the noise.
@@curtisjudd wow. Truly amazing. I will be watching for your consumer-release full unit review. Seems like this kind of kit will be impossible not to pick up. 2019 seems to be truly a gear-hoarder's year (Rode, Zoom, etc... :) My Tascam DR60-MKII is a work horse, but I may be migrating to Zoom this year.
I'm just learning what 32bit floating audio is thanks to you and Gerald. I hope Zoom puts it in their next H series portable recorder.
Unfortunately they didn't put it in the H8 which came out after this. 😞
This is incredible. How would the 32bit audio recording work with audio feeds from sound boards? I usually need to use an attenuator with F4 and H6.
Hopefully well. Will take a look for the final review.
What does the attenuator do?
@@satinderdhindsa835 It reduces the output signal from the sound board so that the recorder's input is not overloaded and does not clip.
@@curtisjudd but if the sound comes in clipped... your screwed. At events, many sound/PA providers do not send a clean signal. If they send it with grounding issues, or clipped....no recovering even with 32 bits because it has been processes already on the sound board
Story Café Africa fair point. If you get a clipped signal, game over. But when it comes out the board hot, but not clipped, this setup should help.
This is amazing, and to think I actually laughed when I heard about 32-bit recording, since even 24-bit is often useless with the noise floor recorders have. The form is certainly not for me, but I'm sure there will be more reasonable looking machines in the future. I'm very curious to see how the competition will react.
All good points!
@@curtisjudd But in your demo of the MixPre, you recorded a very low-gain signal and when you boosted it, you said the noise floor was lower than it would've been. 24-bit with one converter picks up about 70dB of noise with a mic attached but I was under the impression that the dual converters helped with this.
@@Hexspa Same applies here. The practical noise floor still sits around -70dB after recording with the fader set to -60dB. It is impressive.
@@curtisjudd Ok, thank you.
Pay no attention to the drooling foley artists in the back row.
They spend too much time alone to know how to properly show their enthusiasm for such a device.
Hahahaha!
Lmao I don't know what industry you work in my good man but Foley artists are never alone, they need their Foley mixer, a lot of time a 2nd Foley artist too
@@namdo8958 I am in the industry of keeping the good-natured humor going in Mr. Judd's comments.
I appreciate the insight; I would be intimidated to even try foley.
@@insanejughead I agree, humor is much needed especially nowadays in this sensitive modern society. However, I don't see the point of putting down a certain group of professionals that have nothing to do with the subject matter just to have fun
Also 7:20 is by far one of the best moments of the channel thus far.
😁I make a fool of myself for the greater good!
@@curtisjudd it really brought a smile to my face!
zoom! make a 4 channel (2xlr + 2 3.5mm) 32bit float and sleeker body and just take my money!
Hahaha!
Yeah, 4 channels might be better in terms of ergonomics.
...and XLR Outputs !!!!
Marcos Ceolin Ganzer : I think what you are looking for, Mixpre-3 from sound devices has it. Get your money out :)
Just received this yesterday, the camera bracket was included. Slightly traumatized by the power I hold in the palm of my hand now. Its...insane. Jam Sync'd my slate with no problem. Its really amazing seeing how technology has advanced since picking up production again recently.
👍 Happy recording!
Hearing Curtis Judd yell seems so unrealistic.
But, he can do it...
It isn't something that happens often except in audio gear reviews. 😀
Great video as always!
I am stunned how well the clipping test went. The F6 is a hell of a great little device, truly remarkable!
Thanks DerAugstein!
Your perfect photography analogy would be HDR (high dynamic range ; the name says it) more than RAW.
Thanks.
From official site: "ZOOM F6 PRODUCTION DELAY
During our initial production for the F6 Field Recorder, we discovered a mechanical component that needed modification to assure consistent, overall durability. As a result, delivery of the F6 Field Recorder has been rescheduled for later in the Fall/Winter of 2019.
At Zoom we have always been committed to providing the highest quality products possible. We apologize for the delay and appreciate your patience and understanding. " New date: 2019-12-16
Thanks Sergio.
I'm a mainly one man band video shooter. The dynamic range on this will be a godsend. So many instances where it would save you during event recording. Will definitely be buying it.
👍
I've been waiting for your impressions since this product was announced. Awesome. I can't wait to hear how this compares with the MixPre series. I'm ESPECIALLY excited to see what Sound Devices does to answer this new offering.
Thanks Devin. I was told by Samuel at Zoom that the F6 has the same preamps as the F8 and we did a sample comparison of the F8 and MixPre here if you’re interested: ruclips.net/video/Hnvq-6M1adE/видео.html
Not sure whether the new ADCs make a difference. I didn’t notice a difference yet.
Five hours from the upload, 315 likes, zero dislikes. I don't remember this acceptance ratio in any video I've seen. You got a great channel Curtis, and great people following your always interesting contents. Congratulations. Now I'll grab your views over this new Zoom. Greetings from Spain.
Thanks Alejandro!
@@curtisjudd thank you for providing "clean signal" among all the surrounding "noise"
Superb review as always Curtis. The initial diagrams are really helpful in their own right to explain mic and line levels and gain staging to novices. You're a star!
Thanks so much Mike and great to hear from you! Hope all is going well!
We will have to see how it fits in a bag. From strictly an ergonomics perspective, I like the MixPre3 better because it is thinner. From a professional usage perspective, the 32 bit recording capability probably overrides any ergo differences, particularly for the price. Sound Devices will have to come up with something spectacular to compete with this.
I agree that the MixPre series have better ergonomics. If I've got to mix all day from a bag on location, I'd still probably pick the MixPre. But if Zoom adds the dual A/D converters and 32-bit float to a recorder like the next gen F8, that'd make it even more compelling.
Zoom always innovating. Can't wait for this to hit the market! The recording for filmwork... A thing of beauty.
I can hardly wait!
It's a bit funny that they made volume controls almost obsolete, but cramped the little real estate available, with the 6 knobs. I am also very excited about this technology, which I am sure will force a shift for the entire industry. Thank you for your reviews! Excellent work!!
They made gain/trim obsolete but you still need faders to mix multiple mic inputs together. :)
@@LearnLightAndSoundSessions I agree and you are not wrong. I'm sure they weighed the options carefully...The F6 is a very cool little recorder. Thanks!
This recorder is blowing my mind!!!! Wow!! Thanks for the review Curtis!!!
You bet!
Very cool. Being a photographer, this is one of those, "why didn't **I** think of that!?!" kind of things. We do it in photography all the time...HDR, bracketing, etc. Hell, our cellphones even do HDR automatically now. I never thought of applying that to audio. Very cool.
👍
Yeah i might have to get one. My medium Ktek bag with the bigger battery in it and all that stuff does weigh on my back after some hours. Thanks Curtis.
👍
When I saw this on your NAB video, I thought, game changer. Yup. Game changer!
Looking like it!
@@curtisjudd I would love you to do a follow-up video in a couple of months about how it's worked in production.
@@TheToneWork Plan on it. 👍
Looks phenomenal for travel too. Just did a shoot in France and Portugal where we had to leave behind the Zoom F8n bag just because of the space. Ended up mounting it to the RED. Weird but worked. This looks like that could actually be a standard workflow while traveling with a small crew where a camera operator is also monitoring audio.
👍
This product is way above my needs, but I always enjoy your professional reviews.
Thanks. I try to include as much education as possible so that even if you're not looking to buy, you can still find some value in the video.
Of course it was helpful, Curtis. All your videos are helpful, why should this one be an exception!
Thanks RustyTube
A real game changer from Zoom. Kudos to them. I expect (going forward) that this will trickle down to their "H" line recorders.
Game changer, indeed!
Really cool. I have been using the DR-100 MK II and have been eyeing the Mix-Pre 3 as an upgrade. This zoom seems even better, I hope the technology trickles down into cheaper devices.
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Thanks Curtis, another excellent first impression. I am about to buy my first recorder for various projects. My budget allows for any recorder up to the price of a MixPre-6/Zoom F8n. So it's interesting to see these new (for Zoom and Sound Devices) high-quality recording options come out on a model that is below those two recorders. Devil is in the details I imagine so a full review should prove enlightening. Looking forward to it. Thanks again.
Thanks! And thanks for recognizing that it isn't as simple as just dynamic range. Looking forward to the full review!
Thanks Curtis. I've been looking forward to finding out more about this. Certainly on my wish list. Thanks agin and looking forward to hearing more from you.
Thanks John!
OMG this is MAGIC! Great video and now I will be selling my F4 and F8 for this recorder because it's a no brainer. The one SD is not great but everything else is good. Always enjoy your content man.
Haha! Definitely a nice step forward in terms of dynamic range. You might consider keeping one of the others. I find the F4/F8 much easier to use in terms of ergonomics and the F6 is more a special purpose recorder.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for the advice. That was the other thing I noticed was the lack of that menu nob. What do you think about the lack of dual SD slots?
@@TristanBarrocks Yes, there are several things which make the F6 a little more "special purpose" than the F4/F8 which are more general purpose. I definitely miss the menu and headphone volume knobs. I know that dual card slots are very important to many people, though I haven't had any issues with any of the SanDisk cards I use so I can probably live with the single slot. However, from a purely ergonomics point of view, I would still prefer to use an F8 rather than the F6 for a typical sound bag location sound job.
@@curtisjudd Thank you so much for making the time to answer my questions. I really appreciate it and hope to work with you in the future. PEACE!
Looking forward to the in-depth version on the F6. I just bought one and am trying to learn it to be able to use all the features!
Congrats on your new F6! Review coming soon!
Man, this is fantastic. Great news that it's seemingly panning out as we had hoped. My mixpre 3 was great, but near unlimited flexibility in post is the greatest thing I have ever heard haha
Flexibility in post is nice.
From what you've shown here, and what I saw in NAB videos, I'm pretty much sold. I look forward to your more in-depth review as well.
Thanks Todd. Yes, I am quite pleased with how well it did!
Very excited to see how this pushes the industry especially in small indie stuff
Me too!
Wow! Thanks for the great overview, looks like a real winner for a one man band videographer. Looking forward to the full review !
Thanks Rob!
Great initial review Curtis! It seems that Zoom just might have ceased most new F8n sales with this release until they update the recorder to include dual analog to digital converters and 32 bit float... it would seem silly to buy an F8n knowing where zoom is headed, unless you REALLY need a pro-level recorder on a budget right away. Clipping is a real concern and a decent recordist can avoid it in almost all cases but even a great recordist has to think about it and plan ahead. Any recordist would love for that extra concern to be a thing of the past... and now it is.
Thanks xak huh!
Hey Curtis we spoke via my other account. I was looking at the Zoom F6 but am torn between the F6 and the sounds device mix pre 3. The reason I was Interested in the F6 is because of its form factor which is similar to the Tascam DR69d which I attach to my camera rig . I like the F6 because of its form factor because anf it's 32 bit float file & high dynamic range. The week link in my audio change with my Rode NT5 & NTG3 is the Tascam DR60d. The audio on my documentary was only ok and I want it at its best . The Mix pre 3 would offer excellent audio but the Zoom F6 offers the potential to be more forgiving if I make mistake in my audio settings and thus avoid distorted audio. To cut to the question why is it that you feel the F6 is not the best move from the DR,60d. And that the mix pre 3.would better move from the Tascam. Sorry for the long question and for asking your advice on this subject again. Thanks as always for your excellent input. Jean-Francois
Hi again! The F6 is more difficult to use from an ergonomics point of view. For example, the channel knobs are very crowded on the very small front panel. The menu requires the use of four buttons to navigate vs the MixPre's touchscreen. The MixPre has the ability to also record very wide dynamic range and also has superior limiters in case you set your gain too high. But you can run the gain very low and boost it just like we demonstrated here with the F6. The MixPre just goes about capturing that wide dynamic range a different way.
This is all my opinion having used the F6 for only two days so it isn't totally conclusive and it is subject to my opinions and preferred way of working.
One question: Are you booming the NTG3 and NT5 or are they mounted to your camera rig? If mounted, you'll get a bigger improvement in audio quality, even with the Tascam, if you boom them over the talent. You probably already are doing this but I mention it just in case. Didn't want you to invest in a $650 recorder and find that your audio quality hasn't improved much at all. :)
@@curtisjudd thanks Curtis you honest view are appreciated. I do both boom and if need the mics are on the rig. But from what you say, it will be better with the .ix pre 3. I promise not to contact you again about this. Thanks again . You are part of a rare breed o. RUclipsrs that reply to comments. Thank again JF
Fantastic. Looking forward to seeing if the auto-mix has been improved.
Thanks Ray, me too, lot of potential there.
7:05 I was literally like "WHAAAAAAATTTTT!!!!"
That is beautiful! I want it!!!
:-D
@11:40 Zoom F6 only my has 1x SDXC card slot while the Zoom F4 had 2x SDXC card slots? Why remove the card redundancy???
Size of the recorder.
Great overview! I have it in my B&H shopping cart and will look forward to your full review.
Thanks James!
Once again a great video Curtis. On my wish list is the Zoom F6 and the Sennheiser MKE 600 mounted on the camera but on my desk roughly 18 inches away from me, in a talking head type scenario. Thank you for your many in depth reviews across RUclips. Peter.
Thanks Peter and happy recording to you!
Zoom just keeps on producing above-average prosumer products. Thanks for keeping us informed!
You bet, thanks Jeff.
Ah, yes, another "above-average" recorder this is, eh?
Wow this is game changing! Especially on Weddings when I NEVER can guess what can happen (DJs tend to change the gain mid-toast)
Good point - that's a great use-case for having all this dynamic range!
Such a good review :) Thank you!
I think the main benefit of the size is it can easily tripod mount with virtually any camera. I have it under an XC15 and its dreamy!
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I appreciate your initial insights. Thanks Curtis.
Thanks René
Zoom is so cutting edge. I'm well on my way to getting totally addicted to 32 bit float and tech that's great at using it. Crazy good video too!
Thanks!
This is absolutely amazing, I think I found my new Field recorder.
Thank you so much curtis, great video keep up the good work.
Thanks Clarke
just got mine with the bag and cant wait to use it your video helped allot thanks the our channel needed some audio help
Thanks and I hope the F6 helps you make some great recordings!
@@curtisjudd why does it start timing after start up with no mics plugged into it seems like its a record timer but not recording sorry about the silly question
That’s the timecode clock. Totally normal.
@@curtisjudd dude your the best thanks for the channel please check us out we are inspired by you in the Audio department
Thanks Curtis. Always Loved my F8 and this is very interesting even potentially game changing for some other systems.
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Such a great "pre-review"... very very nice work, sooooooo useful !
Thanks gilles.
The step up from Zoom H6 will be incredible for me. Looking forward to it.
The only real downside for my use personally is that they’re ditching XLR/ 1/4” combo jacks, which I find very convenient. I guess XLR only has a much more shallow profile, and because of that they could make the whole device smaller. But I’m using a lot of 1/4” cables, so cable adapters/ dedicated XLR to 1/4” and 1/8” cables will add bulk to carry around. XLR cables are heavy. But I can live with that.
Would be curious to hear if you have an overview of what DAWs that support 32bit float. Is it widely adopted already, or is it a standard on the rise?
Hi, I suspect you’re right - the combo jacks take a lot more room internally. Waiting for the dual ADCs to make it to the rest of the F series makes sense for a lot of people.
I believe all of the major DAWs support 32 bit wav files presently.
@@curtisjudd do you see any issue with using an XLR to 1/4 TRS cable (or converter) for guitar, bass recording? That's the main issue I see for my uses, I want to record music with this beauty.
Love the look of the show! Gotta preorder this a great upgrade from the Tascam Dr-60MkII ( still a great device ) Thanks for the review Curtis!
Thanks and I hope it works well for you!
Have you ever had problems with the XLR connection getting stuck?
I'm pretty certain this would suit me doing shoots on the go. Gear weight is a huge factor in my work running from interview to interview, so this light little device might be an option. Thanks Curtis.
You bet and thank you Wesley!
I'm really (pleasantly) surprised that this is only US$100 more than the F4! As you were going through the good performance and nice features, I was suspecting it would have been priced at the same level as the F8.
From Julian Krause's video on the topic, I may have misunderstood, but I though that he was speculating that the lower level A/D converter might bypass the preamp, which would avoid the noise from the amplification itself, and also avoid the amplification of any noise in the chain at that point, but from your diagram, it looks like both A/D converters work on the signal from the preamp. If it works well, and has low noise in the recording that's all that matters!
One small/odd thing I've been wondering for a while is wether for a 2 (or more) camera interview setup, where the cameras don't have TC in, if something like Tentacle Sync boxes could be avoided by splitting (and possibly attenuating) the TC signal from a recorder like this, through cables, and into the 3.5mm audio in jacks on the cameras. TC boxes would still be necessary where multiple cameras are moving around (and or the "sound guy" is moving around), but for more "fixed" setups, cabling the TC from the recorder right into the cameras would save money and mean fewer "gizmos" to deal with while shooting.
Hi Thomas, Julian and I are both speculating about how the analogue preamp stage works here. So far, ZOOM hasn’t revealed that level of detail, probably to protect their implementation.
Yes, you should be able to run a TC signal directly from the recorder to cameras and you would need to attenuate and split the signal and find software to convert the audio TC to metadata TC. But it should work!
Curtis Judd when you say that software is needed, that’s what Resolve and Tentacle’s software does (when it works) correct? (And that the BMPCC4K does when it gets a TC signal in the 3.5mm jack.)
It will be interesting to learn all the details on the F6, so I’m very much looking forward to your review! Thanks!
@@tomdchi12 Correct - Tentacle Sync Studio which almost always works or Resolve which works about 50% of the time when it comes specifically to the task of converting audio timecode to metadata timecode.
Oh boy the sub $700 category just got a lot more interesting! With the control surface looks like a great podcast on the go setup.
Indeed!
Wow! Take my money now, Zoom. Really appreciate these tests.
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Great review, Curtis!
And great device too.
Finally we have RAW sound! "Audio Blackmagic"!!! )))
Thanks Aharon! Yes, pretty exciting!
Hey! Great video, Curtis. I'm really enjoying the educational segments you've been adding.
I do have one question about the USB connectivity. When you're using it as an interface on the computer, is the USB able to draw power concurrently or does it require an additional power source at that time?
Hey Gerald, yes, if the computer's USB port supplies the 5V per the USB 2.0 spec, it'll power the F6. I've found that some laptop USB ports don't supply the full power, but usually at least one of them will.
Once you have the one, the only, Gerald Undone seeking your knowledge, you've certainly arrived!
Amazing piece of kit for us mirrorless guys, and fantastic value for money.
I guess It’s finally time to invest in better quality mics now, as 32 bit should really allow us to hear the difference in quality.
Whereas before, the pre amps in the mixer would mostly crush that extra little quality difference.
I’d love to see a direct comparison between this mixer/recorder and the mix pre 6ii.
Definitely planning to compare with the new MixPre series.
Thanks for such a great overview. Very helpful insights, especially appreciated your basic explanation on AD converters and the benefit. As for the ergonomics, I agree it’s a bit of a pain to set up. I decided to order the blue tooth piece and see if that makes workflow easier.
Thanks Cole!
Looks ok, just ok. I have the need for line level inputs, Taking sound from a board or the occasional real-life device. If I'm spending that much, I'd step up to a mix-pre. If they switch to Neutrik combo jacks for production - then I'd really consider it.
Ok.
The F6 can accept 6 line level inputs.
@@martinXY Correct, the XLR inputs are mic/line selectable in the menu. Dexter seems to need 1/4" TRS line inputs. I spoke to Zoom who said they used XLR only on this unit to keep it small. The combination jacks take up a lot more room internally.
@@curtisjuddAdaptor cables to the rescue!
@@martinXY I agree. I look at the F6 as a specialty recorder for the type of work I do. I wouldn't want it to be my primary recorder, but the size and wide dynamic range features would make it a good choice in select situations.
In fact, my Sound Devices 633 has XLR only inputs. I live with that reality by using adapter cables when necessary.
I know this camera I'm going to reference wasn't out at the time but others with similar technology were. I think a better analogy than comparing the dynamic range capability to RAW video would be comparing it to a camera with a DGO sensor (dual gain output sensor). Specifically, it is like comparing a Black Magic Pocket Cinema 4k to Canon C300 III, Canon C70, or one of the many Alexa cameras which contain dual gain output functionality. This allows for you to take in the highlights and shadows without clipping either similar to the two AD converters taking in the quiet and the loud and summing them together to give a wider dynamic range. Might be a better analogy for some of the video guys who watch your stuff, particularly now that you've done the F3 and F8n Pro reviews.
With all that said, I always love your reviews Curtis. Top notch every time. Thank you for you hard work and detailed overviews.
Yes, good idea.
That is REALLY IMPRESSIVE! Thanks for the comprehensive review.
You bet! 👍
Any analog input recorder is clippable. It may be cleverly designed with multiple-converter switching such that it will not clip the AD converter(s) prior to the analog input stage overloading, but the dynamic range limits of the analog input stage then becomes the bottle-neck rather than the converter. It all depends on the EIN noise floor and overload limits of the input stage. Once the signal has been digitized, the dynamic range within the 32-bit floating point storage "container" is immense.
One of the problems I've encountered with F8 is accommodating really hot inputs (music recording using high-sensitivity condenser mics in high SPL conditions). Even with input trim turned all the way down to +10dB I must engage the limiter to avoid clipping. Zoom specs state an maximum input level of +14 dBu with limiters turned on. I take that to mean that with the limiters off, the overload limit is presumably +4dBu, as the advanced limiter pads analog input sensitivity by -10dB prior to the ADC. Would be nice if switchable input attenuation was without engaging the limiters were possible.
Agreed. The hard set unity gain on the F6 probably results in most mics overloading before the analogue preamp of the F6 will completely saturate.
In regards to Hirose or external power, there are plenty of Sony batter dummies with cord and connector floating around, so you can still connect to managed power ;)
Good point, thanks Sarah!
Just amazing. Well done, Zoom! And thanks for the review, Curtis!
You bet, thanks Matt
really interested to know whether the gain cannot be adjusted whilst recording 32bit float. is there a huge impact? because thats the one has been holding me buying Zoom F6
The gain CANNOT be adjusted when recording in 32-bit float mode. ZOOM's perspective is that you do NOT need to set gain. Instead, the knobs become faders and the tracks are recorded post-fader. The end result from ZOOM's point of view seems to be that you can achieve the same thing with post-fader recording. Sound Devices, with their MixPre II series recorders approaches this differently. They do allow the operator to adjust the gain in 32-bit float mode.
Does this Zoom offer multitracking, similar to the H6? In other words, can you track, once trk at a time to SD, and listen to the track and overdub to the next and the next internally to SD
Hi Fastguitars, I didn’t see any multitrack/overdub capabilities with this firmware. I think they keep the focus on sound for video and film with the F series recorders