NOTES: We cut to the Sound Devices 888 at 4:13. Could you hear a difference? 32-bit float - I'd like to clarify that I don't find 32-bit float recording universally useless, I just don't use it for my work because it isn't really a benefit. I usually record in controlled conditions without screaming or yelling. So if you're going to record in controlled situations as well, 32-bit float may NOT be a MUST HAVE feature for you. Also note that 32-bit float will not save audio that clips at the microphone (microphones have their limits) and especially with most wireless microphone systems - if the audio clips before it gets to the recorder, the F6 cannot fix that. On the other hand, many of you have cited WHY 32-bit float is useful to you. That demonstrates that there ARE valid use-cases for 32-bit float recording.
Being a typically pedantic engineer I'd observe that 32-bit probably isn't as important as floating point. As you and I once discussed in comments (IIRC) it's very likely that Sound Devices is actually using something like FP24 encoding over the air with the A20, but I've yet to see anybody complain about the quality, and some simple math explains why that would be the case - the human auditory response is nearly logarithmic, such that small differences are only perceptible at low magnitudes. That means that the required mantissa precision for "perceptual perfection" in an FP encoding is fairly low. In any case, I think FP/32b/whatever is most useful when you don't really understand your source for whatever reason (and even then only with very high dynamic range mics).
@@patrickchase5614 Fascinating, I'd love to hear more! You might want to make a video about it. I barely understood a thing, but I didn't know that 32-bit and "Float" are different... things? Cheers! - 🐧
@@patrickchase5614 Agreed. And most of the time, the dynamic range of what I'm recording is not that extreme. Same for a lot of others recording interviews or talking head video.
This is the kind of preaching that the world needs right now. Your videos and opinions are always very honest, 'annoyingly sensible', and a total no-nonsense, bang-for-the-buck kind, which I totally admire. Now, I am not trying to prove any point here and would be more than happy if I am wrong, but I still would like to test the limits of my listening skills and would place my money at the TC 1:52, which is where I think you made the switch from the Zoom F6 to the Sound device 833 . . .
I love my F6. I don't ever expect to change. I use it for recording live performances of music ensembles in which I am playing. 32bit float allows me to know that I can just pop it down, set up the mics and think about the music I am playing, without being distracted by wondering about the levels. The recording is secondary to the playing, and it's the music that I need to concentrate on. I obviously can't monitor in a performance situation, so I have to take the risk that there may be problems elsewhere. Great video, as always.
I was surprised on his different current take of 32-bit float versus many of his previous videos talking about how amazing wide dynamic range audio can be. I find 32-bit float to be game changing personally in my video business, but to each their own. :)
I love my F6, especially after taking your training class on how to use it, your class made me so much more confident with this recorder, I DO plan to stay with it!
30 day wait by writing it down…wonderful advice. I appreciate you sharing your humbling experiences. I am can relate to this on many levels as I have given in to the dopamine of buying tech or leaping into things too early. Tough love, we all could use it more of it-I’ll always heed the genuine advice and tough love I receive. We should all pay it forward. ☮️❤
Hey, thanks for the video, and all the good content. I’m planning on recording with a quad ambisonic mic in the near future. It feels very experimental with few set standards. Would the F6 be a good field recorder for quad ambisonic field recording?
I love it… “Tell me what’s NOT working well” ? With your Sound Recorder, with your Camera, with your Microphone? Thank You Curtis… I’ve been blessed to Profit upward to Multiple Cameras (I needed multiples for work more than one double in price with specific luxuries that I may use every now and then), Timecode Audio, Mobile Compact Lights… but I really had to ask myself that very question. You are a King, Sir… May God continue to bless your endeavors.
Great advice, thanks. I have zero complaints about my ZOOM F6. And to your point, as a solo operator, the only time I had sounds issues was when I didn't use my headphones to double check my setup.
The F6 changed the game for me. love the form factor. In run & gun scenarios with multiple people mic’d up it sits perfectly in a tactical chest pouch and I can monitor in auto mix while filming with both hands. Im selling my old F8n and Mix Pre 6 II because neither had been used for two years.
I love how this video (1) treats owning an F6 as a foregone conclusion - because it really is that rare product that beats the clock of product churn and was a bargain to begin with - and (2) schools people thinking they need to upgrade, with a reality check. I was tempted to upgrade to 8 inputs in the F8n Pro, until realizing that I'd lose key features like NP-F battery power. The biggest flaw of the F6 (that you've already addressed in your original review) is the terrible headphone port pre-amp performance.
I just bought an F6 an I'm extremely pleased with it. I do both sound and video so being able to leave the recorder alone, to it's thing' is extremely valuable. Therefore I've gone all in on 32 float and it's a lifesaver. What used to be a grave error is now easy to fix in post. The F6 is a fantastic little bag of tricks, BUT not easy to set up right for your particular application. Once you get it right, it's glorious. The ability to use big Sony bricks for power is also amazing. You can record all day with one of those bricks.
I just recently upgraded to a MIx Pre 10t ii after using my F6 on several, small projects. For me, I knew it was time to make a change once I was struggling to clip 4 receivers, a commtek, and a timecode generator on my waist bag while navigating the device itself primarily as a solo operator. I love my F6 but the ergonomics and ease of use were what made to decide to move on. It hapilly sits in my bag as a backup recorder though :)
I sold my previous ZOOM F3 and bought a used MixPre-6 II based off your videos and I absolutely love it. Reasons why I bought it: ** Curtis said so 🤣** 1. It’s a recorder I can grow into and covers me for anything that I would want to do in the future. 2. Analog limiters. 3. The customer service is phenomenal. So if anything happens to the recorder, it will be a hassle to deal with them. 4. I can record to the SD card while simultaneously using it as an audio interface. 5. The form factor. I have my camera mounted on of it 6. It’s capable of generating timecode. This is something that I find myself using quite a bit since getting the MixPre.
The Zoom F6 is a powerhouse workhorse. I use it constantly in the studio and in the field. I always use 32-bit Float, because I often am recording where there is gunfire (very loud spikes of course) and it's great to pull them down to "normal" level and still have the full wave and sound profile. I still don't use it to its fullest capability. I appreciate you cautioning people on "gear acquisition syndrome", something we all are bitten by on occasion.
❤❤❤ I love my zoom f6. The only reason why I could consider upgrading would be to the f8 is to have 8 channels. Thats about it. Also, I thought for a second that Curtis painted his nails and had really nice hands haha
I have the F6 and in fact got it for the 32 bit float capability. I use it for recording myself playing piano and so unless there is someone to help me, setting the gain optimally isn’t easy. 32 bit float simply means I don’t need to worry about it. I totally agree that it doesn’t ‘solve’ any other issues. Bad mic placement will always get a bad result.
I really like the F6 but I ended up upgrading to the Zoom F8n Pro for two reasons. First, the headphone jack on the F6 tends to lose audio when slightly jostled or moved. This occured on my first F6 and a replacement one as well. The second reason I upgraded was I liked the idea of having a backup SD card. I still carry the F6 as my backup recorder.
Hey Curtis - been a while! As a musician & recording engineer I've had my F6 for about 4 years now and its been (and will be) my recorder for the field (or whenever I'm not at my home recording studio). Has everything I need. No need to 'upgrade' (upgrade to what, anyway?). In my recording studio I use a QSC TouchMix-30 Pro. For recording/tracking, I feel the F6 does just as good a recording/tracking job as the QSC. Before I had either of these two recorders, I was constantly upgrading to get the latest/greatest. There eventually comes a point when you have the 'best' for your particular situation and, as far as I'm concerned, I have the best for both the studio and the field for my particular purposes. I can't possibly see where 'upgrading' will get me anything more at this point with either of these. The trick is to know when you have the absolute best for your situation - AND - to know that any 'upgrade' will not buy you anything other than 'features' or 'looks' that won't contribute to your final audio quality. The end user in my case, those listening to music that I've recorded (ie: bands, singers, soloists, you name it) isn't going to know (or care) about how you got there or what you used. The finest compliment I can get is "wow, this recording quality is unbelievably good". I feel I have the equipment and know-how to accomplish that. No upgrade is going to improve on that. When you can realize that you have that best equipment for your situation (whatever that may be) and that 'upgrades' won't improve on that, then you have finally matured to a level I can respect as "professional". Sorry to say that until you reach that level, and constantly feel the need to 'upgrade' to something 'better', well, you're just a hobbyist. Just thought I'd throw that in for any other musicians / studio recording engineers out there.
Great video as always- at around 7:50 you described me perfectly- I create videos for several customers, a few are extremely limited by budget (non profits/small orgs & businesses) so often I am camera/lighting/sound/interviewer/host/on & off camera. The ability to set it & go with 32 bit float, not worrying too much about bad mic technique specifically, is HUGE- love my f6
I got the zoom f6 in 2021 because I was doing a lot of fast run and gun shoots and I wanted 32bit because I might not have the time to manage gain. I use it in a sound bag and for me it works great. For me the biggest sell was the 32bit and the npf battery. My only problem is the lack of combo/instrument inputs. But that's solvable with adapters and di boxes.
Great video as always, Curtis. So much hype for 32bit. In my humble opinion, 32-bit float is really only valuable for a couple scenarios. 1, recording massively wide dynamic ranges in one take. ie, a conversation and a gunshot. 2, recording things that you just can’t mess up. Ie, one take of a fighter jet passing where you really don’t know how to predict gain levels. I also see the logic for solo shooters who are preoccupied with an abundance of cameras and other gear. I’ve used 32-bit on my MixPre6ii ONE time. It was for some sound effect recording. It’s been in 24-bit ever since lol.
Tbh "recording things that you just can't mess up" is maybe a broader category than you give it credit for. If you shooting narrative and the first take of a scream or some sort of shout was the best one, but you set your levels too high that it got clipped, then you've messed up. I get that you can avoid that with safety tracks and analog limiters, but 32-bit audio is cheap and directly solves the problem without either of those workarounds. I don't want to throw away a single take on the grounds of having clipped my audio, and with the F6 I have not clipped audio a single time and it's good to have that peace of mind.
*if your microphone can handle the sound pressure levels of the scream. Important for those with wireless to know that many can still experience clipping in the wireless system, excepting some of the latest generation.
Many mentioned reasons why I bough F4 althrough F6 was in my price range, 32-bit float is sure nice but still not must have in many scenarios. SoundSpeeds vid also helped alot in that choice!
I still love my F4 it has some neat features you dont find in most recorders under 1200 dollars like automix xlr outs, full routing matrix, support for a external fader board etc
Thanks Curtis, your tough love is much appreciated! I have an F6 and love it for recording in the field as its flexibility (an 32 bit float) works well in meeting the endlessly changing circumstances. That said, sometimes I wish it has the form factor of the H6-top facing interface, larger dials etc. I find the smaller, front facing layout a bit of a pain when it’s not strapped to me facing upwards. If Zoom came out with a 32 bit H6, I’d seriously consider it.
I think they heard you. Zoom recently announced the new H6Essential with 32-bit float. Only $199 and it will be released in the next few weeks. Can't wait!
I actually “downgraded” from a MixPre6II to a Zoom F6. In Germany the MixPre costs more than double now, so by selling it I can have a bit of extra cash in my pocket. Additional reasons for F6 for me: More convenient L-Battery mount and Automix at no extra cost. I use it for podcasts though, not film shoots
Its great, just I find timecode still often most confusing to set up. Sound bag definitely wanted to find a bigger bag to fit all the receiver in as the dedicated bag from ORCA is way too small. And would be interesting if you can tell which other bags would be a better fit as would not want to buy mutilple bags try which would fit it the best.
I think, ktek stringray one is outstanding for solo booming lightweight indie setup. Super fit and various belting options. I’am just attaching two sennheiser to front pounch and use the sides for timecode, ifb another receiver if needs. I just wished to attach a clips or something for arms or so but imo it is great for one man indie sound bag
Having a F6, I can say most issues people have with it can be easily solved including the case. Also you can dual record 32 and 24 bit if you really want to. Considering how tiny the files are as compared to the video files I think it is trivial. That being said also, what helps audio is more and better mics. Shooting narrative and dialog a major benefit is having 2 or 4 mics all set up to capture each person and sometimes more than one angle or position, allowing movement in tight spots or with limited crew. 32 bit completely solves leveling and such but you still as yo pointed out need good placement of the microphone. Other benefits to 32 bit is post processing has a lot more to work with and cleaning up things that you can't do much about like window blowing leaves around becomes easily removed. With timecode and other things you can just split the in and out with a left right channel splitter, I've done it it works fine. Anyway Cheers and great video.
Glad the F6 works well for you. However, I haven't found 32-bit float better for cleaning up noise. That's still a challenge whether 24 or 32-bit float.
I started my career 3 yrs ago as a sound mixer. 15 features, a ton of commercial and corporate shoots. ALL ON MY Zoom F6. But I have to say, Ive been turned down by alot of gigs because I was operaring a zoom. I rent out a SD 664 when I get a high end production. The F6 is small recorder. It gets frowned upon and its looked at like a amatuer recorder. This is the year that I want to uprade and still keep the F6 as a back up or when I want to drop the bag in a car scene. Zaxcom Nova 2 has been really calling my name with all features for a easier work flow and the built in receivers. Yes very expensive but i believe its worth it if you have the money to invest. But for now Im buying a used 633 or 664. Simply for the in/outputs and for more of a professional recorder. (Dont like the small touchscreen on the Mix Pre 10 but the green lit knobs are fire.) That being said. As of now, other than my home, the Zoom F6 is the BEST INVESTMENT I have ever owned in my life. Almost at a six figure income all on this $700 recorder. I Learn alot from your channel Curtis. Keep grinding brother!
Tough love, indeed, indeed. Especially this close to Black Friday. Thankyou for this public service to us, the listeners. Spend your money wisely and where it will do the max benefit. Even if that means buying good, name brand sound blankets 😸
Some excellent food for thought Curtis! I couldn't tell when you switched over. listening back yes there is some more clarity to the 888 but I didn't notice, especially with YT compression!
The Zoom F6 is used daily in one of my studios. The only thing I wish is that the headphone jack was higher quality akin to the MixPre6-II. Don't know if that would be enough to get me to replace my current one, but it's on my wish list.
Video Suggestion?: What would be the best value or upgraded microphone (Condenser, Dynamic, Lavalier, etc) be for the Zoom F6, instead of upgrading the recorder?
32bit float is legit for wedding videographers who are working alone on a wedding and simply do not have the time to constantly check and see if levels are right... especially since in some instances the sound levels can fluctuate quite a lot :)
Love the F6 from new, added the F8 (used) after, in both cases having the integration with iPad pro using dedicated apps a favourite feature for usability.
Great points, I still use my F6 as a backup to my Nomad. One overlooked reason for upgrading is that some producers look unfavourably toward smaller equipment, falsely believing bigger gear is better or more professional. For instance, having spoken to several camera people; one reason they say they upgraded from smaller Sony cameras (A7 series, FX3, etc.) to the larger bodied models was to conform to uneducated producer expectations. As you stated: compact gear is just as effective.
I mean yes and no. A larger body such as the FX6 has built in NDs, timecode support, loads more buttons for quick setting changes, SDI and a form factor which lends itself far better to rigging, balance-wise. The image quality is the same as the Alphas, but quality of life is a vast vast improvement. Also much better battery life.
@@patriotbarrow Agreed, but a camera like the BlackMagic 6k Pro carries most of the options you listed. Yet when I’ve heard of operators bringing that to non-union projects, they’re given funny looks from the producer(s) just because it’s smaller than its big brother, the Ursa Mini
Yes, unfortunately many others have reported this type of decision making from producers. However, there are some advantages to kits built around recorders like the Nomad.
if I am not mistaken there is no single Naumann review in this channel.... Thats I guess supports your point in this video... Thanks Curtis. your channel is one of the best and most credible
Great video as always. Not quite a F6 owner or user myself, but a couple of weeks ago I purchased a F3. Definitely can attest 32-bit is not a fixer of all the issues in the audio world. In fact, I only got it for one reason (need to record audio from loud live shows with insane volumen shifts and it works like a miracle). But other than that there is nothing that 24-bit won't handle if proper mics and care.
I just replaced my Zoom F6 with the Tascam X8, but only because my F6 SD card slot failed and I didn’t have time to repair it with jobs lined up. But I’ve been very happy with the Tascam, their ergonomics are way better in my opinion. But the F6 was overall quite good for the last 4 years.
Funny that the Zoom F6 was the focus of this video. I purchased mine as a *HAVE TO HAVE* piece of equipment and sold off my mix-pre3... because I needed more inputs. It just so happened that Covid shutdowns occurred the next month. In three years I have yet to use the Zoom F6. The "30 day waiting period" idea would have saved me a good bit of money. And, yes, I am not upgrading the F6 to anything else in the near future.
Love my F6. I do use the 32bit float since I record in the field and around loud noises like trucks and guns. I wish it was shaped just a bit different. But no real issues.
I made the almost fatal mistake of dropping my F6 earlier this year, causing the bottom plate to break, thereby losing access to the 1/4" hole to attach the recorder to an arm or similar. The recorder still works but now I wear it on my belt, which is fiddly and sometimes uncomfortable. I think the next solution will have to be some kind of audio bag. The recorder is too good to give up and too expensive to replace. My situation is the opposite to yours. I film and record trains outdoors (solo operator) where I cannot control the recording environment. The 32-bit float deals with the variable noise that trains generate very well, especially the intrusion of locomotive horns or steam train whistles, which can be very loud and play havoc with an otherwise good recording. A bit of pp in Adobe Audition and then some compression in Resolve Fairlight and all is well!
Love your work Curtis… Still very happy with my F6 which I bought when it was first released. I have often recorded in both 24bit and 32bit float (just in case) but in four + years I have never needed to rely on the 32bit float version. Yes, the knobs are very small… but I have used the Bluetooth dongle from new and I can control everything easily using the F6 app on an old iPad. As for the case in the field - my review of the ORCA bag for the Zoom F6 is still my best performing video! 😊
I started with a Zoom F4 I got off eBay and then sold it to new student starting up in recording and got an F8n Pro. It does more than I will ever need so no upgrades from here. Now I just need to control my MAS (Microphone Acquisition Syndrome).
I have both F6 and F8n and 02:30 is actually the only thing holding me back from using my F6 on my boom op projects. The F6 is lightweight and everything is great about it, but navigating through the menus is ridiculous and takes forever. I bought my F6 to go along with my rode nt-sf1 and it is mounted on a stand together with the mic, they both live on the stand and i never take them off. In other words thats a great use for the F6. The F8 is my work horse and navigating through the menus is quick and flawless. For the F8, i'd rather have 4 big knobs as on the F6 and then have a knob to switch between gain control of channel 1/5, 2/6, 3/7, 4/8
Upgrade from the F6? I only have my Tascam DR-40 for years now. Still reliable as ever (just need to keep it away from phones though). I have been watching reviews on field recorders and lav mics not just as replacements but perhaps additions to the arsenal (the portacapture X6 looks interesting). However, this video says that I might still be good with what I have for now. Thanks for the tough love, Curtis!
I've upgraded to F8N pro which meets my all needs by far. There's a time that I really want to spend the money on Sounddevices Mix Pre 10 II...but first because of the budget and second because of it's far beyond my whole working scenes. Right now I'm working fine with F8N pro and feel relax to cover nearly all of my working situations. Besides, I'm using 32bit float all the time because most of my working is to record the class at school. The scary dynamic I will face when students say "Stand up" "Hello Teacher" "Goodbye Teacher" and some time they scream at the time I can't not expect...32bit float always work good for me. Thanks to the video for curing me with the "think twice list"...which helps me with preventing me from spending money on those I dont really need.
Excellent advice, Curtis! Sure, there are some legitimate reasons as to why you might need to upgrade gear, but more often than not, you really need to step back and ask yourself if it's going to solve any real problems and are these "problems" real or just perceived? Heck, I'm just as guilty of Gear Acquisition Syndrome as the next guy! More often than not, the answer is just improve your technique and learn to better use the gear you own right now. Great commentary/content as always!
I've had a MixPre 3 mk1 since they first came out, very, very happy with it. It was 'expensive' back then, but I have never had a problem with it and the analogue limiters do their job. Previously I had a 552, so that had me hooked on the SD ecosystem. I didn't need more than three XLR inputs since we mainly do single person interviews, but now I have bought the AUX upgrade and if I wanted to I could use those channels for say a Rode Go system. I looked at the more pro recorders that SD make, but couldn't warrant the extra $$$. I looked at Zoom and others, but back then I felt the ergonomics of those recorders did not match that of SD. I have thought to upgrade to the Mk2, but again, what real extra benefits would it bring? I'd rather spend money on upgrading my powering systems to something like Smallrig V Mount batteries, or getting a better fluid head.
since i got the rode wireless pro, i stopped using f6. connect the mke600 s to the rode transmitters and i recieve both mics on the camera, vey sweet, no more cabling
Kurtis what does pressing the headphones nob do? also what's the mode of operation? Like is the screan part supposed to face towards or away from you? Just to b sure I'm using it wright. I'm getting the hang of the app.
The only thing that bothers me are the ergonomics with how cramped the menu buttons are and that it takes a long time setting date and time every so often
@@rockrecordreport7136 Glad it works well for you. Compared to other recorder/mixers I've used, it isn't as easy, but that's partly personal preference and to do with the size of your fingers.
The F6 is pretty much perfect for the type of work I do -- corporate and event videos, mostly as a one-man band. My top wish for it would be an additional SD card slot. Redundancy is very important for me. After that, XLR outputs, even mini XLR, and more gain/better sound quality on the headphone output.
Way back after watching one of your reviews i purchased the mix pre3 i never regretted it. The only annoyance of the unit is the small screen and weird location of the power button.
We've probably pushed this thing to the limit. I made a custom mount to fit it into a larger sound bag. I use a 6 way splitter to send audio out to transmitter for director and wireless hops. Plus added a little volume knob for the director's headset. We could be better at using the ipad to add meta data. I wish the timecode port was locking. I wish the ergonomics were set up differently to make it easier to route all the cables. I wish the power management could be better to power all the lavs as well. But we only use this occasionally for larger narrative productions which is currently not our main line. So I don't see us upgrading or side-grading anytime soon. Maybe if I found a better bag for this, it could help?
Personally having a SoundDevices recorder also gives peace of mind that it's not going to fail in -35c temperatures. There's a few Zoom F8 recorders in my city and they have serious problems in cold climate for example not turning back on if you happen to shut the recorder off. Most sound recordists are not going to have this problem but you never know when you end up on a gig in Finnish lapland or other arctic area :D
The F6 was my first "serious" audio interface. I sold mine to a friend when I switched over to Sound Devices, but the F6 was rock solid in every respect except for the ergonomics. As you say it's not the easiest device to manipulate on the fly. I can hear very small difference between an F6 and a MixPre or 8-series at ultra-high gains with dynamic mics, and I can measure differences with a 150-ohm test plug, but I've yet to encounter a situation where the F6 wouldn't have been "good enough" from a pure audio quality PoV. The way the F6 implements trim vs gain is just silly, though IMO.
I find 32 bit quite useful in scenarios where the expected source volume is unknown and there cannot be a retake. Theater in my case. A very good analog limiter with low noise preamps and a bit of experience would also do but setting gain in post is much more comfortable.
Sure, it doesn't fit great into a bag, that's lamentable but not a deal breaker. However, because it's small it's a nice manageable size to just strap on if you're going to do field recording (I use just a camera strap for that). I'm not upset at all about the size, it tucks really well and I find myself bringing it along because it doesn't take up the most space. The menu controls are a bit cramped, but once you figure out how to use the sides of your thumbs instead of trying to get your fingers in there it feels better. The only thing that really bothers me is that it doesn't have the XLR/TRS combo inputs. So it's a bit harder to use if you want a direct 1/4" line level situation or want to use it as an audio interface in a snap. You have to be ready with those adapters in that case. Other than that, I'm really happy with it.
I was surprised on the different current take of 32-bit float versus many of his previous videos talking about how amazing wide dynamic range audio is. I find 32-bit float to be game changing personally in my video business, and it's not because I don't know how to set audio levels. The benefits of 32-bit float are vastly greater and more affordable, in my opinion, than the comparison of filming RUclips videos on an ARRI versus a cheaper camera. Apples to oranges. I always love Curtis's videos, but that take seemed a little, "Get off my lawn 32-bit float." ;)
I don't hate 32-bit float, I just don't think it is that useful for my work where things are generally recorded in a pretty controlled environment and without a lot of screaming or really loud sound effects. I suspect there are a lot of people who are very enticed to "upgrade" to a recorder like the F6, just for the 32-bit float capability, and I don't think it will help them all that much. But for some it will, I suppose. So, no need to get off my lawn. 😉 But also, good for people to be realistic about whether it is worth the $750 USD.
Thanks for another nice video, and the red nail polish looks great on you! 😜For external recording I use the Sound Devices MixPre 3, and for in camera recording I like the good old MixPre D's which still serve me really well. 24 Bit recording is more than sufficient if you take some care about mic placement and gain and fader settings. See no reason yet to upgrade anytime soon, still very happy with the results.
I like 32-bit float. It is a safety net for beginner solo operators especially being on-camera in which wearing headphones is not desired. It is also helpful in dynamic environments like capturing gaming action in which someone gets excited. Of course, not professional voice actors or vocal talent. At least so far, I have found interfaces that support 32-bit float also tend to have better preamps too - so it is a 2 for 1 type deal. Additionally, you can always convert down to 24-bit, but you can't do the reverse. I always keep my original 32-bit float files. Thankfully, my audio editors support this, so it isn't an issue - so I only convert at the very end of the editing process as an export. Yes, it requires a bit more processing but at least you don't have to re-record anything. But, yes, if you have access to a well treated recording environment and the talent is trained to give a consistent performance, then 32-bit float isn't necessary and you can skip the few annoyances with it. For those on a budget, you can use a splitter and record into a dual-input audio interface with a normal level on one side and a reduced gain on the other - record both sides into a stereo file. The other track will serve as your backup. I use my F6 in my sound booth and now with the v2.0 firmware, I use it as an interface and recording to the SD card as backup - both in 32-bit recording mode.
Thanks for the insights and sharing your experience. I would caution on one thing: there are several lower-end recorders and interfaces which feature 32-bit float but that do not have great preamps. My ZOOM H4essential comes to mind. Still a decent non-pro recorder, but not for those who demand pristine results.
Hey Curtis! Awesome video as always. As someone who's only recently found out about 32-bit float (thanks to one of your videos), I'm still trying to learn the key differences between it and 24-bit linear. All I know about 32-bit float is that you can adjust levels after the fact without affecting noise floor. Around the 7-minute mark, you mentioned that 32-bit float doesn't solve all the problems... would you mind elaborating on what problems you're referring to? Or does your pinned comment cover all of the problems you were referring to?
32-Bit float is a NECESSITY in a lot of filming scenarios. Especially horror, hehe... But yeah, the mic is probably the most important link in the chain and my Schoeps CMC641 is a godsend. Definitely not cheap, but worth every penny. Paired with my F6, I have gotten plenty of compliments on the all-around quality
It's never a necessity, it's just useful to compensate for lack of experience as a sound op. An experienced sound op can work with 24 bit without problem even if the scene has both screams and creaking floorboards that need to be captured.
@@sloaah1That’s mighty elitism of you, lol! How many takes did it take for you to get it right in 24-bit, eh? An “experienced” sound op would know that every take is usually different, so your always playing catch up. Better to get it all, every time, which 32-bit float does perfectly. I’ve been working in audio for 30 years and I love 32-bit, no reason to use 24-bit at all, anymore
There are two reasons why I'm contemplating the purchase of an upgraded recorder in 2023. One is to have a controllable compressor or noise gate, and the other could be the auto-mix functionality. While the Rode Caster Pro II performs well in terms of DSP, I still encounter issues with bleeding when recording both myself and a guest. Just like what you have said in a previous video, choosing dynamic mics with cardioid pickup patter, maintaining the distance, minding the position can help with the problem. Yet I'm still curious whether a more advanced recorder can help with this. I'm not sure.
The mic and placement is indeed more important. Thanks much for this. I have a NTG5 as my sort of do everything mic (indoor and outdoor etc. ) Ive been really wanting to get a SDC for my untreated space I just wonder if there is anything budget that would be noticeably.better than my NTG5. Just ranting here. Keep up the good vids.
I get a low end buzz when recording on a set with live electricity cables mostly in doors. Sometimes when i move the mic around, it lessens or increases. I use the mk 600 and mogami gold cables. I can’t tell whether its the mic or the recorder or the cable.
Logical and sensible. Thanks. I use 32 bit when I can't figure the level accurately, air show jets, and unknowable levels in one shot news type situations. I think mic type and placement are far more important. The Zoom recorders sadly enforce a false concept, shotgun mic don't zoom as a lens optically, into a sound, they dip is a pool of sound and the further away the more reflection.
I use mine to change the levels of a wireless go and send it to a pa system via xlr (recording on the way). I used to use an f4 which was amazing and then an f8. After they both died, I moved to the f6. It isn't nearly as good for this. I adapt the 3.5mm output to xlr with no problem. But the range of usable levels is really narow. On the other 2 recorders I ended up with about 45 degrees on the gain dials where the levels were about right. This gave me enough control. On the f6 its around 10 degrees. This makes it very difficult to control the volume. I finally gave up and got an attention cable to knock the wireless go's output down 20db and learned to live without finer gain control. It's a shame, it's a wonderful recorder. But the added complexity wasn't getting me gain control like it did with the f4 and f8.
I have been eyeing the F8nPro so long that I have in the meanwhile bought several other recorders. :) Now that there is a significant pricedrop, I am really tempted to pick one up. Simply because I like the looks of it. :) I am not sure if it would really add any real value to me over my existing fleet of recorders: H1n, Tascam DR10x, H6, F2-BT, F3, Tascam X8 and the Rode Wireless Pro kit. I am now used to 32 bit float as I do all of my videos alone, including acting, so I cannot monitor audio during shoots. But the F8n Pro would just generate new expenses: battery, cables, 2xSD, more professional microphones... And the main reason I was thinking about the F8 (the F Control) is no longer available.
@@curtisjudd And finally the F8n Pro is added to the collection. F6 skipped. First impressions are great, but still a lot to learn and add to the kit. As I had not seen it in the flesh prior to purchase, I can say it feels a bit different than I had expected. First off: smaller than what I envisioned. Now time to save up for some accessories. I am currently thinking whether to sell any of my other recorders, and if the answer is yes, which one(s). I love them all for different reasons.
@@curtisjudd Cheers. Last night I had a fun experiment: combine the X8 with the F8n Pro. :) Plug two dynamic mics into the X8, set gain to about +30 dB. Add compression, EQ, noisegate. Then route one mic to the line out Left, the other to line out R and feed these two into two inputs on the F8n Pro. Pre-processing :) Then add the rest of the gain on the F8n Pro and turn on Automix. Wohohoho, what a podcasting setup :) :) It really sounds fantastic and clean.
I bought my F6 in 2021 and I really love it. Though in the last year it seems every second week the SD card reader will stop reading. Leaving me to turn it on and off and removing the SD until it begins reading again (sometimes it just doesn't work for a few days). Would love to know if anyone else has experienced issues with the SD card reader...
I just got a zoom F6, and I love turning up the gain and listening to the noise floor of my mics. I was using 3 mics at one point, all with phantom power and noticed that I could hear the screen updating the timecode timer, and weird noises during recording. I could stop the screen noises by getting into a menu. I thought hmm, maybe it doesn't actually write the noises to the card and its just the headphone/lineout. It does write the noises to card. I thought hmm maybe I shouldnt use usb power, and tried alkaline, noises still there. Then I got an L battery. Noises gone. I could easily bring them back by going back to usb/alkaline. To repro with just 1 mic: Use 1 PH mic (mke600), and 2 ph mic channels turned on with nothing plugged in. Also, if you externally PH the mics or dont use PH at all, no menu noise. Use an L battery, everything is fine. Overall, this made me a little unhappy. Long story short, use an L battery.
One reason you could benefit both from 32 bits and moving to Sound Devices MixPre is if you are in to sound design and foley. 32 bit is only useful if the mic/line source is loud and unpredictable enough and the mic pre of the device can cope with that dynamic range before the signal hits the 32 bit AD stage. In that respect Sound Devices MixPre has better specs than zoom, it can cope with hotter signals and it also has a better limiter.
I love my F6. There are a few things about it that I find mildly annoying - the ergonomics of the physical controls, the menu system and UX in general are a little cumbersome, and injecting timecode into it can be a bit of a science project - but otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly that (in the right hands) it's more than capable of consistently capturing extremely high-quality audio that's more than adequate for all but the most demanding professional studio level production applications.
thank you for the tough love. It is very much appreciated. Anytime someone helps me to keep my cash in my wallet is always appreciated. Thumbs up for you. Most of the time, youtube content encourages you to buy, buy, buy regardless of your use case.
Thank you for sharing. What would you recommend for output audio for a director to listen in? This kind of work is rare for me, but I would want to be ready
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NOTES: We cut to the Sound Devices 888 at 4:13. Could you hear a difference?
32-bit float - I'd like to clarify that I don't find 32-bit float recording universally useless, I just don't use it for my work because it isn't really a benefit. I usually record in controlled conditions without screaming or yelling. So if you're going to record in controlled situations as well, 32-bit float may NOT be a MUST HAVE feature for you. Also note that 32-bit float will not save audio that clips at the microphone (microphones have their limits) and especially with most wireless microphone systems - if the audio clips before it gets to the recorder, the F6 cannot fix that.
On the other hand, many of you have cited WHY 32-bit float is useful to you. That demonstrates that there ARE valid use-cases for 32-bit float recording.
Being a typically pedantic engineer I'd observe that 32-bit probably isn't as important as floating point. As you and I once discussed in comments (IIRC) it's very likely that Sound Devices is actually using something like FP24 encoding over the air with the A20, but I've yet to see anybody complain about the quality, and some simple math explains why that would be the case - the human auditory response is nearly logarithmic, such that small differences are only perceptible at low magnitudes. That means that the required mantissa precision for "perceptual perfection" in an FP encoding is fairly low.
In any case, I think FP/32b/whatever is most useful when you don't really understand your source for whatever reason (and even then only with very high dynamic range mics).
@@patrickchase5614 Fascinating, I'd love to hear more! You might want to make a video about it.
I barely understood a thing, but I didn't know that 32-bit and "Float" are different... things?
Cheers!
- 🐧
not at all
@@patrickchase5614 Agreed. And most of the time, the dynamic range of what I'm recording is not that extreme. Same for a lot of others recording interviews or talking head video.
@@filmowaniezprofitem I think you are in the majority. Most people wouldn't be able to hear the difference. 👍
This is the kind of preaching that the world needs right now. Your videos and opinions are always very honest, 'annoyingly sensible', and a total no-nonsense, bang-for-the-buck kind, which I totally admire. Now, I am not trying to prove any point here and would be more than happy if I am wrong, but I still would like to test the limits of my listening skills and would place my money at the TC 1:52, which is where I think you made the switch from the Zoom F6 to the Sound device 833 . . .
Thanks! We’ll post the time tomorrow 👍
+1 on the "'annoyingly sensible " :-) these videos stop me buying toys i "need"
I love my F6. I don't ever expect to change. I use it for recording live performances of music ensembles in which I am playing. 32bit float allows me to know that I can just pop it down, set up the mics and think about the music I am playing, without being distracted by wondering about the levels. The recording is secondary to the playing, and it's the music that I need to concentrate on. I obviously can't monitor in a performance situation, so I have to take the risk that there may be problems elsewhere.
Great video, as always.
I was surprised on his different current take of 32-bit float versus many of his previous videos talking about how amazing wide dynamic range audio can be. I find 32-bit float to be game changing personally in my video business, but to each their own. :)
Sounds like it fits your situation nicely 👍 Always makes me happy when a product fits a user really well.
I'm not down on 32-bit float, just warning people that for spoken word recordings, it may not be a MUST HAVE feature.
I love my F6, especially after taking your training class on how to use it, your class made me so much more confident with this recorder, I DO plan to stay with it!
Excellent! Keep making great sound!
30 day wait by writing it down…wonderful advice. I appreciate you sharing your humbling experiences. I am can relate to this on many levels as I have given in to the dopamine of buying tech or leaping into things too early. Tough love, we all could use it more of it-I’ll always heed the genuine advice and tough love I receive. We should all pay it forward. ☮️❤
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Hey, thanks for the video, and all the good content. I’m planning on recording with a quad ambisonic mic in the near future. It feels very experimental with few set standards. Would the F6 be a good field recorder for quad ambisonic field recording?
Yes, the F6 supports the most common ambisonics modes.
I love it… “Tell me what’s NOT working well” ? With your Sound Recorder, with your Camera, with your Microphone? Thank You Curtis… I’ve been blessed to Profit upward to Multiple Cameras (I needed multiples for work more than one double in price with specific luxuries that I may use every now and then), Timecode Audio, Mobile Compact Lights… but I really had to ask myself that very question.
You are a King, Sir… May God continue to bless your endeavors.
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Great advice, thanks. I have zero complaints about my ZOOM F6. And to your point, as a solo operator, the only time I had sounds issues was when I didn't use my headphones to double check my setup.
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The F6 changed the game for me. love the form factor. In run & gun scenarios with multiple people mic’d up it sits perfectly in a tactical chest pouch and I can monitor in auto mix while filming with both hands. Im selling my old F8n and Mix Pre 6 II because neither had been used for two years.
Awesome! 👍
I love how this video (1) treats owning an F6 as a foregone conclusion - because it really is that rare product that beats the clock of product churn and was a bargain to begin with - and (2) schools people thinking they need to upgrade, with a reality check. I was tempted to upgrade to 8 inputs in the F8n Pro, until realizing that I'd lose key features like NP-F battery power.
The biggest flaw of the F6 (that you've already addressed in your original review) is the terrible headphone port pre-amp performance.
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I just bought an F6 an I'm extremely pleased with it. I do both sound and video so being able to leave the recorder alone, to it's thing' is extremely valuable. Therefore I've gone all in on 32 float and it's a lifesaver. What used to be a grave error is now easy to fix in post.
The F6 is a fantastic little bag of tricks, BUT not easy to set up right for your particular application. Once you get it right, it's glorious.
The ability to use big Sony bricks for power is also amazing. You can record all day with one of those bricks.
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I just recently upgraded to a MIx Pre 10t ii after using my F6 on several, small projects. For me, I knew it was time to make a change once I was struggling to clip 4 receivers, a commtek, and a timecode generator on my waist bag while navigating the device itself primarily as a solo operator. I love my F6 but the ergonomics and ease of use were what made to decide to move on. It hapilly sits in my bag as a backup recorder though :)
Totally makes sense! And it's a great backup!
I sold my previous ZOOM F3 and bought a used MixPre-6 II based off your videos and I absolutely love it. Reasons why I bought it:
** Curtis said so 🤣**
1. It’s a recorder I can grow into and covers me for anything that I would want to do in the future.
2. Analog limiters.
3. The customer service is phenomenal. So if anything happens to the recorder, it will be a hassle to deal with them.
4. I can record to the SD card while simultaneously using it as an audio interface.
5. The form factor. I have my camera mounted on of it
6. It’s capable of generating timecode. This is something that I find myself using quite a bit since getting the MixPre.
Glad the MixPre is working well for you! 🎙
Love this straight talk, Curtis. Thanks for your guidance, it's been such an accelerator for me, both this channel and your courses.
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The Zoom F6 is a powerhouse workhorse. I use it constantly in the studio and in the field. I always use 32-bit Float, because I often am recording where there is gunfire (very loud spikes of course) and it's great to pull them down to "normal" level and still have the full wave and sound profile. I still don't use it to its fullest capability. I appreciate you cautioning people on "gear acquisition syndrome", something we all are bitten by on occasion.
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❤❤❤ I love my zoom f6. The only reason why I could consider upgrading would be to the f8 is to have 8 channels. Thats about it.
Also, I thought for a second that Curtis painted his nails and had really nice hands haha
💅🏻 I try to keep my hands and fingers tidy. But those are Emma's hands. She's our producer.
I have the F6 and in fact got it for the 32 bit float capability. I use it for recording myself playing piano and so unless there is someone to help me, setting the gain optimally isn’t easy. 32 bit float simply means I don’t need to worry about it.
I totally agree that it doesn’t ‘solve’ any other issues. Bad mic placement will always get a bad result.
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I really like the F6 but I ended up upgrading to the Zoom F8n Pro for two reasons. First, the headphone jack on the F6 tends to lose audio when slightly jostled or moved. This occured on my first F6 and a replacement one as well. The second reason I upgraded was I liked the idea of having a backup SD card. I still carry the F6 as my backup recorder.
Good points and seems like a good choice. 👍
Hey Curtis - been a while! As a musician & recording engineer I've had my F6 for about 4 years now and its been (and will be) my recorder for the field (or whenever I'm not at my home recording studio). Has everything I need. No need to 'upgrade' (upgrade to what, anyway?).
In my recording studio I use a QSC TouchMix-30 Pro. For recording/tracking, I feel the F6 does just as good a recording/tracking job as the QSC. Before I had either of these two recorders, I was constantly upgrading to get the latest/greatest. There eventually comes a point when you have the 'best' for your particular situation and, as far as I'm concerned, I have the best for both the studio and the field for my particular purposes. I can't possibly see where 'upgrading' will get me anything more at this point with either of these.
The trick is to know when you have the absolute best for your situation - AND - to know that any 'upgrade' will not buy you anything other than 'features' or 'looks' that won't contribute to your final audio quality. The end user in my case, those listening to music that I've recorded (ie: bands, singers, soloists, you name it) isn't going to know (or care) about how you got there or what you used. The finest compliment I can get is "wow, this recording quality is unbelievably good". I feel I have the equipment and know-how to accomplish that. No upgrade is going to improve on that.
When you can realize that you have that best equipment for your situation (whatever that may be) and that 'upgrades' won't improve on that, then you have finally matured to a level I can respect as "professional". Sorry to say that until you reach that level, and constantly feel the need to 'upgrade' to something 'better', well, you're just a hobbyist.
Just thought I'd throw that in for any other musicians / studio recording engineers out there.
Thanks, Chuck. 👍
Great video as always- at around 7:50 you described me perfectly- I create videos for several customers, a few are extremely limited by budget (non profits/small orgs & businesses) so often I am camera/lighting/sound/interviewer/host/on & off camera. The ability to set it & go with 32 bit float, not worrying too much about bad mic technique specifically, is HUGE- love my f6
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Making the list and waiting a month is absolutely the best advice
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Hi Curtis, you are 100% right, I am still using my H6 since almost 3 years now, no complain at all. Awesome review, thanks 👍🏼🙋🏻♂️ - José
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A RUclips channel telling me I don't need to buy things -refreshing!
We got you! 👍
Thanks!, I just picked the zoom f6 as a 1 man band. so far loving the power options and 6 channels!
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I got the zoom f6 in 2021 because I was doing a lot of fast run and gun shoots and I wanted 32bit because I might not have the time to manage gain.
I use it in a sound bag and for me it works great. For me the biggest sell was the 32bit and the npf battery.
My only problem is the lack of combo/instrument inputs. But that's solvable with adapters and di boxes.
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Bought an F6 few weeks ago thanks to you videos. Before I used a Taskam 70d
👍 Happy recording!
Great video as always, Curtis. So much hype for 32bit. In my humble opinion, 32-bit float is really only valuable for a couple scenarios. 1, recording massively wide dynamic ranges in one take. ie, a conversation and a gunshot. 2, recording things that you just can’t mess up. Ie, one take of a fighter jet passing where you really don’t know how to predict gain levels. I also see the logic for solo shooters who are preoccupied with an abundance of cameras and other gear. I’ve used 32-bit on my MixPre6ii ONE time. It was for some sound effect recording. It’s been in 24-bit ever since lol.
Tbh "recording things that you just can't mess up" is maybe a broader category than you give it credit for. If you shooting narrative and the first take of a scream or some sort of shout was the best one, but you set your levels too high that it got clipped, then you've messed up. I get that you can avoid that with safety tracks and analog limiters, but 32-bit audio is cheap and directly solves the problem without either of those workarounds. I don't want to throw away a single take on the grounds of having clipped my audio, and with the F6 I have not clipped audio a single time and it's good to have that peace of mind.
*if your microphone can handle the sound pressure levels of the scream. Important for those with wireless to know that many can still experience clipping in the wireless system, excepting some of the latest generation.
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Many mentioned reasons why I bough F4 althrough F6 was in my price range, 32-bit float is sure nice but still not must have in many scenarios. SoundSpeeds vid also helped alot in that choice!
I still love my F4 it has some neat features you dont find in most recorders under 1200 dollars like automix xlr outs, full routing matrix, support for a external fader board etc
I miss the F4. I'd love to see an updated version with a better screen.
I'm waiting on an F4 refresh myself, the rotary encoder is a huge step up from the F6 to navigate menus
@@Drone443 100% agree.
Terrific advice! Auto Mix is what pushed me toward upgrading.
That makes sense. The F6 Automix is OK, but not great.
Thank Curtis for this helpful video about Zoom F6 & 32 bit audio float. It helps me make an informed decision about Zoom F6.
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I actually just puchased one and this video certainly makes me feel better about it, thanks
👍 Happy recording!
Thanks Curtis, your tough love is much appreciated! I have an F6 and love it for recording in the field as its flexibility (an 32 bit float) works well in meeting the endlessly changing circumstances. That said, sometimes I wish it has the form factor of the H6-top facing interface, larger dials etc. I find the smaller, front facing layout a bit of a pain when it’s not strapped to me facing upwards. If Zoom came out with a 32 bit H6, I’d seriously consider it.
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I think they heard you. Zoom recently announced the new H6Essential with 32-bit float. Only $199 and it will be released in the next few weeks. Can't wait!
@@gringochapin Waiting for my pre-order to arrive 😉
I actually “downgraded” from a MixPre6II to a Zoom F6. In Germany the MixPre costs more than double now, so by selling it I can have a bit of extra cash in my pocket. Additional reasons for F6 for me: More convenient L-Battery mount and Automix at no extra cost. I use it for podcasts though, not film shoots
Glad it works well for you!
You are the real people, I like the point of view in the video cheers!
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Its great, just I find timecode still often most confusing to set up. Sound bag definitely wanted to find a bigger bag to fit all the receiver in as the dedicated bag from ORCA is way too small. And would be interesting if you can tell which other bags would be a better fit as would not want to buy mutilple bags try which would fit it the best.
That's the thing, I haven't found a great bag for the F6 so I don't have any good recommendations. Sorry about that!
I think, ktek stringray one is outstanding for solo booming lightweight indie setup. Super fit and various belting options. I’am just attaching two sennheiser to front pounch and use the sides for timecode, ifb another receiver if needs. I just wished to attach a clips or something for arms or so but imo it is great for one man indie sound bag
Curtis, seu video foi tão honesto que não há palavras para acrescentar. Parabéns!
Having a F6, I can say most issues people have with it can be easily solved including the case. Also you can dual record 32 and 24 bit if you really want to. Considering how tiny the files are as compared to the video files I think it is trivial. That being said also, what helps audio is more and better mics. Shooting narrative and dialog a major benefit is having 2 or 4 mics all set up to capture each person and sometimes more than one angle or position, allowing movement in tight spots or with limited crew. 32 bit completely solves leveling and such but you still as yo pointed out need good placement of the microphone. Other benefits to 32 bit is post processing has a lot more to work with and cleaning up things that you can't do much about like window blowing leaves around becomes easily removed. With timecode and other things you can just split the in and out with a left right channel splitter, I've done it it works fine. Anyway Cheers and great video.
Glad the F6 works well for you. However, I haven't found 32-bit float better for cleaning up noise. That's still a challenge whether 24 or 32-bit float.
I started my career 3 yrs ago as a sound mixer. 15 features, a ton of commercial and corporate shoots. ALL ON MY Zoom F6. But I have to say, Ive been turned down by alot of gigs because I was operaring a zoom. I rent out a SD 664 when I get a high end production. The F6 is small recorder. It gets frowned upon and its looked at like a amatuer recorder. This is the year that I want to uprade and still keep the F6 as a back up or when I want to drop the bag in a car scene. Zaxcom Nova 2 has been really calling my name with all features for a easier work flow and the built in receivers. Yes very expensive but i believe its worth it if you have the money to invest. But for now Im buying a used 633 or 664. Simply for the in/outputs and for more of a professional recorder. (Dont like the small touchscreen on the Mix Pre 10 but the green lit knobs are fire.) That being said. As of now, other than my home, the Zoom F6 is the BEST INVESTMENT I have ever owned in my life. Almost at a six figure income all on this $700 recorder.
I Learn alot from your channel Curtis. Keep grinding brother!
Thanks for sharing!
Tough love, indeed, indeed. Especially this close to Black Friday. Thankyou for this public service to us, the listeners. Spend your money wisely and where it will do the max benefit. Even if that means buying good, name brand sound blankets 😸
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Some excellent food for thought Curtis! I couldn't tell when you switched over. listening back yes there is some more clarity to the 888 but I didn't notice, especially with YT compression!
Thanks! Yes, hard for most to tell the difference. You have sharp hearing!
The Zoom F6 is used daily in one of my studios. The only thing I wish is that the headphone jack was higher quality akin to the MixPre6-II. Don't know if that would be enough to get me to replace my current one, but it's on my wish list.
Yes, agreed, and also agree that alone is probably not worth the upgrade.
Video Suggestion?: What would be the best value or upgraded microphone (Condenser, Dynamic, Lavalier, etc) be for the Zoom F6, instead of upgrading the recorder?
Totally depends on what and how you’re recording. For dialogue, I’d start with a great boom mic.
32bit float is legit for wedding videographers who are working alone on a wedding and simply do not have the time to constantly check and see if levels are right... especially since in some instances the sound levels can fluctuate quite a lot :)
Yes, indeed! 👍 but also need to make sure the mic can also handle those sound pressure levels. Not all can.
Love the F6 from new, added the F8 (used) after, in both cases having the integration with iPad pro using dedicated apps a favourite feature for usability.
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Great points, I still use my F6 as a backup to my Nomad. One overlooked reason for upgrading is that some producers look unfavourably toward smaller equipment, falsely believing bigger gear is better or more professional. For instance, having spoken to several camera people; one reason they say they upgraded from smaller Sony cameras (A7 series, FX3, etc.) to the larger bodied models was to conform to uneducated producer expectations. As you stated: compact gear is just as effective.
I mean yes and no. A larger body such as the FX6 has built in NDs, timecode support, loads more buttons for quick setting changes, SDI and a form factor which lends itself far better to rigging, balance-wise. The image quality is the same as the Alphas, but quality of life is a vast vast improvement.
Also much better battery life.
@@patriotbarrow Agreed, but a camera like the BlackMagic 6k Pro carries most of the options you listed. Yet when I’ve heard of operators bringing that to non-union projects, they’re given funny looks from the producer(s) just because it’s smaller than its big brother, the Ursa Mini
Yes, unfortunately many others have reported this type of decision making from producers. However, there are some advantages to kits built around recorders like the Nomad.
Very informative content. HUGE THANKS !
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if I am not mistaken there is no single Naumann review in this channel.... Thats I guess supports your point in this video...
Thanks Curtis. your channel is one of the best and most credible
You know what's funny? I own a Neumann U87 Ai and I prefer the sound of several less expensive mics on my voice over the Neumann.
@@curtisjudd RUclips needs more channel like yours. Thank you for your time and knowledge
Always helpful Curtis, thank you.
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Great video as always. Not quite a F6 owner or user myself, but a couple of weeks ago I purchased a F3. Definitely can attest 32-bit is not a fixer of all the issues in the audio world. In fact, I only got it for one reason (need to record audio from loud live shows with insane volumen shifts and it works like a miracle). But other than that there is nothing that 24-bit won't handle if proper mics and care.
👍 Happy recording!
I just replaced my Zoom F6 with the Tascam X8, but only because my F6 SD card slot failed and I didn’t have time to repair it with jobs lined up. But I’ve been very happy with the Tascam, their ergonomics are way better in my opinion. But the F6 was overall quite good for the last 4 years.
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Tascam x8 is trash. I have it. How are you enjoying the ultrasonic hum
Great video! Gonna use that waiting 30 day thing from here on out. Love that
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Thanks Curtis ! Very helpful content.
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Funny that the Zoom F6 was the focus of this video. I purchased mine as a *HAVE TO HAVE* piece of equipment and sold off my mix-pre3... because I needed more inputs. It just so happened that Covid shutdowns occurred the next month. In three years I have yet to use the Zoom F6. The "30 day waiting period" idea would have saved me a good bit of money. And, yes, I am not upgrading the F6 to anything else in the near future.
More inputs, that's a good choice.
Love my F6. I do use the 32bit float since I record in the field and around loud noises like trucks and guns. I wish it was shaped just a bit different. But no real issues.
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I made the almost fatal mistake of dropping my F6 earlier this year, causing the bottom plate to break, thereby losing access to the 1/4" hole to attach the recorder to an arm or similar. The recorder still works but now I wear it on my belt, which is fiddly and sometimes uncomfortable. I think the next solution will have to be some kind of audio bag. The recorder is too good to give up and too expensive to replace. My situation is the opposite to yours. I film and record trains outdoors (solo operator) where I cannot control the recording environment. The 32-bit float deals with the variable noise that trains generate very well, especially the intrusion of locomotive horns or steam train whistles, which can be very loud and play havoc with an otherwise good recording. A bit of pp in Adobe Audition and then some compression in Resolve Fairlight and all is well!
Nice, yes, good example of a use-case for 32-bit float.
Love your work Curtis…
Still very happy with my F6 which I bought when it was first released. I have often recorded in both 24bit and 32bit float (just in case) but in four + years I have never needed to rely on the 32bit float version. Yes, the knobs are very small… but I have used the Bluetooth dongle from new and I can control everything easily using the F6 app on an old iPad. As for the case in the field - my review of the ORCA bag for the Zoom F6 is still my best performing video! 😊
Hi Spike! Good to hear from you and great to hear the F6 is still working well!
@@curtisjudd His comment is mainly about using the F6 app on an old iPad, that is it really. Have you tried that?
@@rockrecordreport7136 Yes. All good. 👍
I started with a Zoom F4 I got off eBay and then sold it to new student starting up in recording and got an F8n Pro. It does more than I will ever need so no upgrades from here. Now I just need to control my MAS (Microphone Acquisition Syndrome).
LOL! I hear you!
I'm still rockin the OG F8!
Rad! Good recorder!
I have both F6 and F8n and 02:30 is actually the only thing holding me back from using my F6 on my boom op projects. The F6 is lightweight and everything is great about it, but navigating through the menus is ridiculous and takes forever. I bought my F6 to go along with my rode nt-sf1 and it is mounted on a stand together with the mic, they both live on the stand and i never take them off. In other words thats a great use for the F6. The F8 is my work horse and navigating through the menus is quick and flawless. For the F8, i'd rather have 4 big knobs as on the F6 and then have a knob to switch between gain control of channel 1/5, 2/6, 3/7, 4/8
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I wish to upgrade to a F6 in the future when I need more inputs and timecode as I am currently on a F3 which I love.
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Upgrade from the F6? I only have my Tascam DR-40 for years now. Still reliable as ever (just need to keep it away from phones though). I have been watching reviews on field recorders and lav mics not just as replacements but perhaps additions to the arsenal (the portacapture X6 looks interesting). However, this video says that I might still be good with what I have for now.
Thanks for the tough love, Curtis!
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I've upgraded to F8N pro which meets my all needs by far. There's a time that I really want to spend the money on Sounddevices Mix Pre 10 II...but first because of the budget and second because of it's far beyond my whole working scenes. Right now I'm working fine with F8N pro and feel relax to cover nearly all of my working situations.
Besides, I'm using 32bit float all the time because most of my working is to record the class at school. The scary dynamic I will face when students say "Stand up" "Hello Teacher" "Goodbye Teacher" and some time they scream at the time I can't not expect...32bit float always work good for me.
Thanks to the video for curing me with the "think twice list"...which helps me with preventing me from spending money on those I dont really need.
👍 Glad the F8n Pro works well for you!
yep. And I also dont forget to enroll your F8n Pro course~@@curtisjudd
Excellent advice, Curtis! Sure, there are some legitimate reasons as to why you might need to upgrade gear, but more often than not, you really need to step back and ask yourself if it's going to solve any real problems and are these "problems" real or just perceived? Heck, I'm just as guilty of Gear Acquisition Syndrome as the next guy! More often than not, the answer is just improve your technique and learn to better use the gear you own right now. Great commentary/content as always!
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I've had a MixPre 3 mk1 since they first came out, very, very happy with it. It was 'expensive' back then, but I have never had a problem with it and the analogue limiters do their job. Previously I had a 552, so that had me hooked on the SD ecosystem. I didn't need more than three XLR inputs since we mainly do single person interviews, but now I have bought the AUX upgrade and if I wanted to I could use those channels for say a Rode Go system.
I looked at the more pro recorders that SD make, but couldn't warrant the extra $$$. I looked at Zoom and others, but back then I felt the ergonomics of those recorders did not match that of SD.
I have thought to upgrade to the Mk2, but again, what real extra benefits would it bring?
I'd rather spend money on upgrading my powering systems to something like Smallrig V Mount batteries, or getting a better fluid head.
Solid reasoning 👍
since i got the rode wireless pro, i stopped using f6. connect the mke600 s to the rode transmitters and i recieve both mics on the camera, vey sweet, no more cabling
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Kurtis what does pressing the headphones nob do? also what's the mode of operation? Like is the screan part supposed to face towards or away from you? Just to b sure I'm using it wright.
I'm getting the hang of the app.
The only thing that bothers me are the ergonomics with how cramped the menu buttons are and that it takes a long time setting date and time every so often
I hear that.
I found is easy even the very first time. Once I got a hang of the up and down arrow buttons and the check mark button it was easy-peasy for certain.
@@rockrecordreport7136 Glad it works well for you. Compared to other recorder/mixers I've used, it isn't as easy, but that's partly personal preference and to do with the size of your fingers.
The F6 is pretty much perfect for the type of work I do -- corporate and event videos, mostly as a one-man band. My top wish for it would be an additional SD card slot. Redundancy is very important for me. After that, XLR outputs, even mini XLR, and more gain/better sound quality on the headphone output.
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Way back after watching one of your reviews i purchased the mix pre3 i never regretted it. The only annoyance of the unit is the small screen and weird location of the power button.
👍 I’ve heard quite a few people complain about that but I like that it is VERY hard to accidentally turn off.
@@curtisjudd oh never thought of that;) good point
We've probably pushed this thing to the limit. I made a custom mount to fit it into a larger sound bag. I use a 6 way splitter to send audio out to transmitter for director and wireless hops. Plus added a little volume knob for the director's headset. We could be better at using the ipad to add meta data. I wish the timecode port was locking. I wish the ergonomics were set up differently to make it easier to route all the cables. I wish the power management could be better to power all the lavs as well. But we only use this occasionally for larger narrative productions which is currently not our main line. So I don't see us upgrading or side-grading anytime soon. Maybe if I found a better bag for this, it could help?
Possibly, yes. If it isn't going to pay for itself to upgrade, I'd stick with the F6 and look for a better bag.
Danke!
Thank YOU!
i think the switch was in 2:14 - the be specific section. right?
It was actually 4:13.
Personally having a SoundDevices recorder also gives peace of mind that it's not going to fail in -35c temperatures. There's a few Zoom F8 recorders in my city and they have serious problems in cold climate for example not turning back on if you happen to shut the recorder off. Most sound recordists are not going to have this problem but you never know when you end up on a gig in Finnish lapland or other arctic area :D
Good point!
The F6 was my first "serious" audio interface. I sold mine to a friend when I switched over to Sound Devices, but the F6 was rock solid in every respect except for the ergonomics. As you say it's not the easiest device to manipulate on the fly.
I can hear very small difference between an F6 and a MixPre or 8-series at ultra-high gains with dynamic mics, and I can measure differences with a 150-ohm test plug, but I've yet to encounter a situation where the F6 wouldn't have been "good enough" from a pure audio quality PoV.
The way the F6 implements trim vs gain is just silly, though IMO.
Yes, I agree on all points.
I find 32 bit quite useful in scenarios where the expected source volume is unknown and there cannot be a retake. Theater in my case.
A very good analog limiter with low noise preamps and a bit of experience would also do but setting gain in post is much more comfortable.
👍 good use-case for 32-bit float.
Sure, it doesn't fit great into a bag, that's lamentable but not a deal breaker. However, because it's small it's a nice manageable size to just strap on if you're going to do field recording (I use just a camera strap for that). I'm not upset at all about the size, it tucks really well and I find myself bringing it along because it doesn't take up the most space. The menu controls are a bit cramped, but once you figure out how to use the sides of your thumbs instead of trying to get your fingers in there it feels better.
The only thing that really bothers me is that it doesn't have the XLR/TRS combo inputs. So it's a bit harder to use if you want a direct 1/4" line level situation or want to use it as an audio interface in a snap. You have to be ready with those adapters in that case. Other than that, I'm really happy with it.
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I was surprised on the different current take of 32-bit float versus many of his previous videos talking about how amazing wide dynamic range audio is. I find 32-bit float to be game changing personally in my video business, and it's not because I don't know how to set audio levels. The benefits of 32-bit float are vastly greater and more affordable, in my opinion, than the comparison of filming RUclips videos on an ARRI versus a cheaper camera. Apples to oranges. I always love Curtis's videos, but that take seemed a little, "Get off my lawn 32-bit float." ;)
I don't hate 32-bit float, I just don't think it is that useful for my work where things are generally recorded in a pretty controlled environment and without a lot of screaming or really loud sound effects. I suspect there are a lot of people who are very enticed to "upgrade" to a recorder like the F6, just for the 32-bit float capability, and I don't think it will help them all that much. But for some it will, I suppose.
So, no need to get off my lawn. 😉 But also, good for people to be realistic about whether it is worth the $750 USD.
Thanks for another nice video, and the red nail polish looks great on you! 😜For external recording I use the Sound Devices MixPre 3, and for in camera recording I like the good old MixPre D's which still serve me really well. 24 Bit recording is more than sufficient if you take some care about mic placement and gain and fader settings. See no reason yet to upgrade anytime soon, still very happy with the results.
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I love your nail polish, Curtis.
Thanks 💅
I like 32-bit float. It is a safety net for beginner solo operators especially being on-camera in which wearing headphones is not desired. It is also helpful in dynamic environments like capturing gaming action in which someone gets excited. Of course, not professional voice actors or vocal talent. At least so far, I have found interfaces that support 32-bit float also tend to have better preamps too - so it is a 2 for 1 type deal. Additionally, you can always convert down to 24-bit, but you can't do the reverse. I always keep my original 32-bit float files. Thankfully, my audio editors support this, so it isn't an issue - so I only convert at the very end of the editing process as an export. Yes, it requires a bit more processing but at least you don't have to re-record anything.
But, yes, if you have access to a well treated recording environment and the talent is trained to give a consistent performance, then 32-bit float isn't necessary and you can skip the few annoyances with it. For those on a budget, you can use a splitter and record into a dual-input audio interface with a normal level on one side and a reduced gain on the other - record both sides into a stereo file. The other track will serve as your backup.
I use my F6 in my sound booth and now with the v2.0 firmware, I use it as an interface and recording to the SD card as backup - both in 32-bit recording mode.
Thanks for the insights and sharing your experience.
I would caution on one thing: there are several lower-end recorders and interfaces which feature 32-bit float but that do not have great preamps. My ZOOM H4essential comes to mind. Still a decent non-pro recorder, but not for those who demand pristine results.
Hey Curtis! Awesome video as always. As someone who's only recently found out about 32-bit float (thanks to one of your videos), I'm still trying to learn the key differences between it and 24-bit linear. All I know about 32-bit float is that you can adjust levels after the fact without affecting noise floor.
Around the 7-minute mark, you mentioned that 32-bit float doesn't solve all the problems... would you mind elaborating on what problems you're referring to? Or does your pinned comment cover all of the problems you were referring to?
Microphone placement, microphone choice, microphone fit to voice, mixing channels, managing noise in your recording space and more.
@@curtisjuddAh I see. Thanks for your reply Curtis! Appreciate it.
Hmmm yeah I'd forgotten about that vid. Now the queestion would be how these F recorders compair to that Safire interface.
The Safire is looong gone. It was FireWire.
32-Bit float is a NECESSITY in a lot of filming scenarios. Especially horror, hehe... But yeah, the mic is probably the most important link in the chain and my Schoeps CMC641 is a godsend. Definitely not cheap, but worth every penny. Paired with my F6, I have gotten plenty of compliments on the all-around quality
It's never a necessity, it's just useful to compensate for lack of experience as a sound op. An experienced sound op can work with 24 bit without problem even if the scene has both screams and creaking floorboards that need to be captured.
@@sloaah1That’s mighty elitism of you, lol! How many takes did it take for you to get it right in 24-bit, eh? An “experienced” sound op would know that every take is usually different, so your always playing catch up. Better to get it all, every time, which 32-bit float does perfectly. I’ve been working in audio for 30 years and I love 32-bit, no reason to use 24-bit at all, anymore
If 32-bit float helps with your workflow, then I fully support it. 👍
There are two reasons why I'm contemplating the purchase of an upgraded recorder in 2023. One is to have a controllable compressor or noise gate, and the other could be the auto-mix functionality. While the Rode Caster Pro II performs well in terms of DSP, I still encounter issues with bleeding when recording both myself and a guest.
Just like what you have said in a previous video, choosing dynamic mics with cardioid pickup patter, maintaining the distance, minding the position can help with the problem. Yet I'm still curious whether a more advanced recorder can help with this. I'm not sure.
In that video, the sample at the end with the MixPre automix and dynamic mics helped make a much cleaner mix.
@@curtisjudd Exactly, that is very inviting, yet costly
The mic and placement is indeed more important. Thanks much for this. I have a NTG5 as my sort of do everything mic (indoor and outdoor etc. ) Ive been really wanting to get a SDC for my untreated space I just wonder if there is anything budget that would be noticeably.better than my NTG5. Just ranting here.
Keep up the good vids.
The RODE NT5 is pretty good but I wouldn’t say noticeably better.
I get a low end buzz when recording on a set with live electricity cables mostly in doors.
Sometimes when i move the mic around, it lessens or increases. I use the mk 600 and mogami gold cables.
I can’t tell whether its the mic or the recorder or the cable.
I’d borrow another cable and see if that changes anything. And if not, then swap out the mic, then the recorder.
Here's an idea: Zoom builds an F6mk2 that has balanced xlr outputs (like the old F4) and auto-mix, then I'd upgrade.
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Love your vids
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I'm looking to buy one for wedding film making next season
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Love it, but the battery at back keeps coming off
Logical and sensible. Thanks. I use 32 bit when I can't figure the level accurately, air show jets, and unknowable levels in one shot news type situations. I think mic type and placement are far more important. The Zoom recorders sadly enforce a false concept, shotgun mic don't zoom as a lens optically, into a sound, they dip is a pool of sound and the further away the more reflection.
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I use mine to change the levels of a wireless go and send it to a pa system via xlr (recording on the way). I used to use an f4 which was amazing and then an f8. After they both died, I moved to the f6.
It isn't nearly as good for this. I adapt the 3.5mm output to xlr with no problem. But the range of usable levels is really narow. On the other 2 recorders I ended up with about 45 degrees on the gain dials where the levels were about right. This gave me enough control. On the f6 its around 10 degrees. This makes it very difficult to control the volume.
I finally gave up and got an attention cable to knock the wireless go's output down 20db and learned to live without finer gain control.
It's a shame, it's a wonderful recorder. But the added complexity wasn't getting me gain control like it did with the f4 and f8.
👍 makes sense. Another ergonomic/practical issue.
I have been eyeing the F8nPro so long that I have in the meanwhile bought several other recorders. :) Now that there is a significant pricedrop, I am really tempted to pick one up. Simply because I like the looks of it. :) I am not sure if it would really add any real value to me over my existing fleet of recorders: H1n, Tascam DR10x, H6, F2-BT, F3, Tascam X8 and the Rode Wireless Pro kit. I am now used to 32 bit float as I do all of my videos alone, including acting, so I cannot monitor audio during shoots. But the F8n Pro would just generate new expenses: battery, cables, 2xSD, more professional microphones... And the main reason I was thinking about the F8 (the F Control) is no longer available.
Sounds like you’re already covered.
@@curtisjudd And finally the F8n Pro is added to the collection. F6 skipped. First impressions are great, but still a lot to learn and add to the kit. As I had not seen it in the flesh prior to purchase, I can say it feels a bit different than I had expected. First off: smaller than what I envisioned. Now time to save up for some accessories. I am currently thinking whether to sell any of my other recorders, and if the answer is yes, which one(s). I love them all for different reasons.
@@ww1www Indeed! Happy recording with your F8n Pro!
@@curtisjudd Cheers. Last night I had a fun experiment: combine the X8 with the F8n Pro. :) Plug two dynamic mics into the X8, set gain to about +30 dB. Add compression, EQ, noisegate. Then route one mic to the line out Left, the other to line out R and feed these two into two inputs on the F8n Pro. Pre-processing :) Then add the rest of the gain on the F8n Pro and turn on Automix. Wohohoho, what a podcasting setup :) :) It really sounds fantastic and clean.
I bought my F6 in 2021 and I really love it. Though in the last year it seems every second week the SD card reader will stop reading. Leaving me to turn it on and off and removing the SD until it begins reading again (sometimes it just doesn't work for a few days). Would love to know if anyone else has experienced issues with the SD card reader...
Not here, but I have had problems with USB cables or SD cards wearing and having inconsistent things like this happen.
I just got a zoom F6, and I love turning up the gain and listening to the noise floor of my mics. I was using 3 mics at one point, all with phantom power and noticed that I could hear the screen updating the timecode timer, and weird noises during recording. I could stop the screen noises by getting into a menu. I thought hmm, maybe it doesn't actually write the noises to the card and its just the headphone/lineout. It does write the noises to card. I thought hmm maybe I shouldnt use usb power, and tried alkaline, noises still there. Then I got an L battery. Noises gone. I could easily bring them back by going back to usb/alkaline. To repro with just 1 mic: Use 1 PH mic (mke600), and 2 ph mic channels turned on with nothing plugged in. Also, if you externally PH the mics or dont use PH at all, no menu noise. Use an L battery, everything is fine. Overall, this made me a little unhappy.
Long story short, use an L battery.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing.
One reason you could benefit both from 32 bits and moving to Sound Devices MixPre is if you are in to sound design and foley.
32 bit is only useful if the mic/line source is loud and unpredictable enough and the mic pre of the device can cope with that dynamic range before the signal hits the 32 bit AD stage. In that respect Sound Devices MixPre has better specs than zoom, it can cope with hotter signals and it also has a better limiter.
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I love my F6, but one thing that Zoom must upgrade is the availability of F6 Control Apps on Android phone
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I love my F6. There are a few things about it that I find mildly annoying - the ergonomics of the physical controls, the menu system and UX in general are a little cumbersome, and injecting timecode into it can be a bit of a science project - but otherwise, I agree wholeheartedly that (in the right hands) it's more than capable of consistently capturing extremely high-quality audio that's more than adequate for all but the most demanding professional studio level production applications.
👍 F6 for the win!
thank you for the tough love. It is very much appreciated. Anytime someone helps me to keep my cash in my wallet is always appreciated. Thumbs up for you. Most of the time, youtube content encourages you to buy, buy, buy regardless of your use case.
👍 Keep your cash.
Thank you for sharing. What would you recommend for output audio for a director to listen in? This kind of work is rare for me, but I would want to be ready
An IFB of some sort. Lectrosonics is the first place I'd look.