@@markjob6354 Me too! I think this way of recording is going to become a standard method among all audio recorder manufacturers. Wonder who will jump first!?
Curtis, first of all THANKS for your well done informational YT channel. I purchased the F6 for a short film I made a few weeks ago and it worked flawlessly in 32 bit for the barely audible young actor along with a scene with a lot of loud screaming, and crying. I purchased it based on your initial review of this great piece. THANK YOU and I am glad you have the reviews you do.
*CORRECTION* F6 CAN record 32-bit Float at 192kHz. To do so, you must turn off the LR Mix and AutoMix and Limiters. *ALSO* recently found that many cameras record rather noisy audio when you feed audio from the F6's output to the camera's microphone input. I didn't have this issue with the BMPCC6K when I sent a line level signal but did have the issue with a Panasonic GH5 with a mic level signal. I have reported this issue to Zoom North America. AND, DaVinci Resolve now handles 32-bit float files.
Curtis, your style is incredible - from the short and succinct intro with the text-based channel intro and summary (both a rarity these days!) to the professional and practical delivery. Even if most of these devices cost far too much for me to even consider, I still await your every new notification. Sound capture, warm confidence, classy no-frills editing - there’s everything to strive for!
Hi Curtis: I just wanted to take this opportunity and thank you for your very thorough and direct reviews and how to videos you do here on your RUclips Channel. You are easy to listen to, easy to understand, and you have a great gifting to teach :) I learn so much from watching all your various reviews and analysis of audio and video products. These are the tools we are all using as film makers almost every day, and it's greatly appreciated. You are an important technical resource.
Definitely one of the best pieces of kit I’ve ever used. Not worrying about gain makes one-man-crew operations so much easier. Been using this for weeks and I love it.
Don't stop on 48, better 128 bits when you just stay at home watching your favourite movies while ZOOM shoots and edits and does all the video production for you 😅
I just receently bought one of these (in Australia), based on your review. I love it! 32-bit, clipless audio is such a profound, incredible leap forward, and I can't thank you enough for bringing it to my attention. As a solo videographer, I'm certainly never going back! ... Of note, I found that - beyond just letting me set the perfect 'gain' in post, I was also able to apply some really extreme EQ to the 32-bit WAVs inside Adobe Premiere (a 20dB swing from -10dB to +10dB) without the usual appearance of coloring/ugliness/smearing I'd otherwise expect in a highly-processed sound. (I don't actually know if any of Adobe Premiere's EQs are specifically linear phase but doubt it). Or so it appeared to me, anyway: ... On the F6 I recorded 32-bit/48kHz, and just two days previously the H6 (24-bit/48kHz) - in the same theatre/space, same mic (NTG3). The space isn't acoustically treated for bass, so (coupled with the NTG3s low-midness), I have to apply a very strong EQ cut to lows, and boost to highs. I applied the same (massive) EQ to both recordings, and the 32-bit just SINGS. ... On top of that, Zoom knocked it out of the park with the power options. I bought an Atomos 2-pack and charger, with over 8 hours of run time on a single L-battery, which can be swapped out in mere seconds. I'm not going to miss AA batteries at all. Stupidly happy. ... Thanks again Curtis.
my jaw nearly hit the floor on that audio recovery section. i was expecting some audible floor noise at least. i am absolutel buying one of these this week. i was going to get an h6 but heck..... this thing is a beast.
This device is excellent for recording conferences that have questions coming from the audience and there is not a "roaming" mic nearby. In post you can correct the volume without raising the noise floor. It will save TONS of time in post-production! Conversely if you clip the audio this device will save you big time! WOW! Just WOW!
@@HeliumContent loooool. Maybe so. I will say, all this time later, the 32 bit float saved my arse when I stupidly tried to shoot three cameras at the same time _while_ running the sound. Screwed up the levels on some takes, didnt catch it on set. Was able to recover the tracks because i could raise the levels. moral of the story: find a crew! Oh and that 32 bit float feature is amazing :)
So what you're telling me is that this recorder could perfectly capture the sound of my head exploding while watching this demo, even with its sudden and percussive loudness.
Good review up to your usual high standard.I upgraded from a Zoom F8 to the F6 and loved it. However after a week I decided to swap to the MixPre-6 Mk ii. You've made an accurate comparison between the two, so I won't repeat them, but... However, I want to note that the 3.5mm Aux mic input on the MP range is really excellent, especially with the smaller units, when the user might be vlogging in the field, as you can plug in a 3.5mm mic that needs plug-in power, without resolving to a bulky XLR adaptor, like the Rode VXLR+. This is especially handy, for "quick and dirty" stereo location sound such as I might use on a holiday, when I can plug in a Rode Stereo Video MicPro. Point in favour of the F6, compared to the MixPre-3 or 6 Mk ii, is that its iOS App can produce a Sound Report. This is only available on the much more expensive MixPre-10 Mk ii. For me personally, the draw cards for the MixPre-6 Mk ii, were gain controls in 32 bit mode, 3.5mm stereo input, 1/4" line inputs and the user interface, however I also liked the F6, so much that I might buy it again if I needed the extra inputs, or get a new F8something, when 32 bit comes to the F8 range.
Re your comment about sound reports, maybe check out Sound Devices’s free app WaveAgent if you aren’t already familiar with it. If you use Mac OS Catalina, note that Sound Devices is working on an update.
@@roryonabike5863 Thanks for that Rory. (what's you bike, BTW? - I am also a motorbiker). WaveAgent currently doesn't support 32 bit audio files(!!! DUH) and requires running on a Mac, so it is really a pain in the you know what for field use. In contrast the Zoom iOS App can create this in the field. Too bad about Android users, though. As SD provide Sound Report facility for the MixPre-10 using the WingMan App, I really think they should have that feature for the MixPre-3 and 6, after all it would not cost them anything and the SD products are hardly cheap so intentionally limiting this function seems to me contra productive.
It is pretty cool for directly connected mics with a lot of dynamic range. Just remember that it doesn't apply to wireless mic systems - they'll usually clip before the audio gets to the recorder.
Some people may be interested in knowing that B&H is selling the Zoom F6 and the original MixPre-6, which it has units of despite the introduction of version II, for the same price, US$650. That is $200 less than the price for a MixPre-6ii.
Ha! You got an NTG3! Sweet! Do you have or are you doing an F6 course? Maybe you mention it later. Not all the way through the video yet. So far it’s awesome!! 👍
Hi, Great review! thank you so much!!!! I couldn't see if the F6 show the actual gain for each volume knob. Imagine that you have 2 mics for stereo recording and you need perfectly "aligned" gains for both tracks. Does it offer this control or only on the visuals?
Yes, you can link 2 or more channels together so that you can set their faders or trim with one control, thus ensuring they are at the exact same level.
Hi Curtis, I recently did some live streams with my Zoom F6 with the Sony A7IV. Using the tone generator and then dropping the line out level from the Zoom F6 to -21.5dB to hit the right level on my camera, I was getting (at least to my ears), excellent sound that was free of any issues. I thought this might be relevant for Sony shooters using the F6. I tested also with the Sony ZVE10 which has very similar preamps to the A7IV and again, same excellent result. Both cameras here only have microphone level inputs.
Curtis Judd surely knows this, but others may not. Sound Devices puts its headphone volume control on the side because that knob is also used to set menu values, including gain. It’s the same on my Sound Devices 702T, a recorder that sold for four times the price of a MixPre-3. The whole point is that, unlike with the faders, one can’t accidentally change isolated track values (a good reason to NOT override the factory default on a MixPre recorder and use the faders to control isolated track gain). The assumption is that one is either using no bag, a bag large enough that there is enough clearance to get your hand in (are you also using right angle XLR connectors, because, if you aren’t, clearance shouldn’t be an issue), or a bag that has side access for one’s hand. For purpose-built sound bags, side access is the norm. In any event, I don’t know why someone would be messing around with headphone volume in the middle of recording in the first place :)
Curtis Judd Hi Curtis. I purchased a bag, made by Gunther Kortwich, for a Sound Devices 702T that I also use for a MixPre-3. Mr. Kortwich died in 2015. His company, filmtontechnik, is active but apparently has stopped making sound recording bags. When I made my purchase, Gotham Sound, where I purchased the bag, was one of the few Kortwich dealers in the U.S. I tried out bags made by Petrol (now produced by Sachtler), K-TEK and Orca as well as Kortwich. It took less than a minute to choose the Kortwich. If you can find one second-hand that fits, go for it. However, most of the time I use both the 702T and the MixPre-3 without a bag. I still use the 702T over the MixPre if its weight and bulk aren’t an issue, or if I’m going to a place where I want a recorder that is built like a tank. It’s still a brilliant recorder.
@@roryonabike5863 Thanks Rory. Unfortunate that filmtontechnik stopped making the sound bags. I used the 744T for a project several years back. Built like a tank, indeed!
@@curtisjudd I am considering the F6 to record a panel discussion, 2 boomed NTG 5s as backup to 4 individual lavs. Are there wireless Lavs that will be able to take advantage of the 32bit, or would the Zoom F2 or Tentacle Sync Track E be a better option? Thank you in advance :-)
@@LordCaes Zaxcom makes wireless systems with a feature they call Neverclip. It does not use a 32-bit float wav file, but a proprietary format called MARF. It achieves the same thing but really works best with Zaxcom mixer/recorders and are very expensive - in a totally different league to the F6. Assuming you're not looking to spend that much money, I would say the F2 or Track E would be good options.
I think you really hit the spot when you said that in an ideal world there would be a Zoom f8n with the 32bit dual recording technology. I think I'd definitely buy an f6 if it was slightly bigger and offer an hirose power input and a proper headphone amp, as well as a real stereo out.
Wow, I was really looking forward to this review, and you did not disappoint! Long list of questions, sorry: 1) Since the F6 has dual ADC's combined with the 32-bit recording, vs. the MixPre II with only 32-bit, what is the performance difference there? How do the dual ADC's contribute to the overall dynamic range? 2) Additionally, in your test of the "recoverability" of the audio clips, how does the F6 perform in raising the levels in post if the sound source itself was very quiet? I assume you were speaking at the same moderate volume in all the samples. Based on my understanding of 32-bit recording (which is admittedly limited), the recorder basically redivides the relative difference in amplitude for a sound wave at the given fader setting, which is what allows you to bring up the volume in post without introducing much extra noise. But what if you already had the fader set at +60 dB, and still had to bring it up a lot in post? I'm probably really misunderstanding 32-bit, but I was just wondering if you could clarify that a bit. 3) Is there a practical reason why the ability to set the gain on the MixPre II would be preferable to the unity gain on the F6, assuming you were using 32-bit recording since doing so would presumably result in no difference in ability to record clean audio? Obviously, being able to set the gain in 24-bit would be a big advantage. 4) Given the inability to set the gain on the F6, how does it perform in 24-bit mode in terms of raising the noise floor at high fader levels? Or having inadvertently set the faders too low, how much does raising it in post raise the noise floor? Again, thank you so much for this review! You've got a lot of amazing content!
Hi John: 1) The MixPre II also has multiple ADCs. They don't say exactly how many, but their patent cites 3 ADCs and the process for how they re-combine the output of each to record to 32-bit float. The difference seems to be that on the MixPre, they allowed you the freedom to set the gain, which I suspect has to do with the presumed 3 ADCs. 2) That will depends largely on the microphone, is my guess. Will require more tests. 3) Yes, microphones are generally designed/voiced with the assumption that some amount of gain will be applied post mic preamp. You might not get the optimal performance of some microphones on the F6 given this. I didn't find any obvious examples in my testing so far, so this is only theoretical. 4) In 24-bit and 16 bit modes, you can adjust the gain/trim so in those cases, it performs just like a Zoom F8n, which is to say, very well in terms of noise performance.
Curtis, I may just be another random commenting from the net but I must thank you for basically being relentless and carrying on reviewing audio gear like this. I last commented talking about the F8 when that first came out as I purchased it. It's great to see you still going strong. Ever since then I've always wanted something with a much better headphone amp for listening to your recordings with a less tinny sound, and mic amp with the warmer base sound of the sound devices but with the live podcast-able features and not at $5000 price point. The new F6 (less clipping when doing offline recording) and Mix Pre II has me excited about audio interfaces again. Now I just need to save some money - as for me this is a hobby so the top teir stuff just can not be justified.
Thanks zedamex - really appreciate the feedback. The MixPre line also just added MixAssist which automatically mixes multi-host podcasts more effectively than the AutoMix on the Zoom F series. It's a great time for podcasters!
There is one more advantage to have 32bit which I personally love. You do not have to get your talent talk to set the meters! Skipping this step makes the work (especially when you are a one man band) so much smoother and more comfortable for the talent. I am thinking of buying it only because of this, and the handy battery jack on the back ;)
THANK YOU for doing this video! Though when you initially spoke to these folks about the recorder, we all knew it was a matter of time when you'd review it. The look on your face when the words 'no gain' was used was priceless! I was surprised how small the unit really is and it seems like they made it that way for mobility. With the least amount of compromises. Being able to power it with a fairly normal battery bank and mountable under a camera on a tripod is impressive especially considering its performance. I think in the last 7 or so years, I've bought into a couple of online courses. I can figure it out and practice on my own. But I'll definitely be purchasing one of yours when the time comes. Your practical yet thorough approach to gear is first rate!
Great review Curtis! I just purchased this item from a sound production friend and am learning how the device works. I've use the Mix-Pre6 and Zoom H4N before. So I'm learning my way around the ballpark.
Hi Curtis, thank you for your precious work on the platform. I have a brand new Sennheiser 416, which I'd couple with the G3 Lav Sennheiser. I'm just starting out in the audio world, and I'm not an expert by any means. I frequently hear the argument “For the price of the Zoom F6, at that point might as well wait a bit longer and get a Sound Devices MixPre 3 II”. Now, money is tight, but I would spend the extra if you tell me the difference in the noise level is noticeable with an MKH 416 once you start to crank it up. I would mostly record in 32-bit float. I can't help but mention that I have a person who wants to sell me a Zoom F6 used once, plus a Zoom bag, plus 2 NPF batteries (8500mah) for roughly the equivalent of 500 USD. The Sound Devices MixPre 3 II would cost me the equivalent of 1120 USD. I really don't know what to do. The number of accessories and the low price pull me towards the used Zoom F6... but will I give up a lot in terms of noise? The difference in functions is not really on the table here, since with my workflow, I would use both in the same way, so the differences highlighted wouldn't probably be a Pro or a Con in my specific case. Again, thank you! Looking forward to reading what you think about this!
In terms of self noise, no, I haven't found the MixPre to a be much different - they're both very clean. There are other reasons I prefer the MixPre, mostly ergonomic, but you can make great sound with the F6. The most important thing will be to learn it inside and out. You'll make great sound. If you need any help learning the F6, we have a course over at school.learnlightandsound.com.
I just today had a completely BS situation of my F6 locking up at the beginning of an extremely important shoot for my company. After jamming with my Tentaclesync, the two inputs I was using (1 and 6) completely locked up- no audio whatsoever. No amount of powering down and back up helped, everything was set and tested last night so there were no prior issues. I finally had to do a factory reset, and it worked immediately. I had to jam again, but no problems afterwards. However, I was so shook up with people and clients waiting wondering what was going on, and maybe having to call the entire shoot because of the F6, I forgot that the thing comes up in 24 bit / poly mode, and didn't set it back to 32 bit /stereo-mode. So all the audio is in this poly BS mode from multiple mics. I am so pissed off at myself and the F6, I'm sick. I'm d**n lucky I had my levels set right. Yes, Operator Error, but AFTER the F6 locked up- THAT is on Zoom. I emailed them with the facts and demanded the firmware be reworked so it comes up in 32 bit float- stereo/mono mode- what people are buying it for, as default, so if someone else has to panic like I did with the F6 today, when they do a hail Mary factory reset, it will come up with the highest feature-set it has.
We've got the MixPre 3 II connected to an EVA1 for video work, but need a permanent solution in our new podcast studio. The F6 looks good, having more inputs at a cost effective price! Thanks for doing the comparison. Very helpful!
I ended up buying a F6 that was a floor model for $580. I really wanted the mix pre-6 but I don't do enough sounds jobs to justify the extra $$ for it for two less inputs (even though I really prefer the combo inputs over standard XLRs). I've only recorded a handful of things with it so far but I really do love it. I don't worry as much about watching the levels and instead focus on the subjects being filmed. Thank you for helping make the decision!
@@curtisjudd Quick update, I've only had one issue so far, and that happened when I inserted an older SD card that has become frozen (you can access the files on it, but can't write anything new). The F6 said error but then armed and said it was recording. Long story short it didn't record anything, and there was nothing to recover. Had I tried to format the card I would have figured it out, but it was a bit of a rush and I've used other cards in it without formatting and had no issues. But you live and you learn (and always record a test sample on the card before using it that day). Luckily I had a scratch track running to a camera so all isn't lost, but it's not 32bit so less wiggle room in post.
@@FrankETaylor Thanks for sharing. Definitely a good idea to format and test the card first. In fact, in the System->SD Card menu, there's a testing function to confirm the card will work well with the F6.
@@curtisjudd Yeah it's funny because I ran that after the fact just to see what it would say and it said the card was fine. But yeah, if I had tried to format it first I would have had a less stressful weekend. I talked to them on the phone and they might fix that in a firmware update, but they had never encountered anything like that so who knows.
LOL! I literally one minute ago was watching Frank Howard's video and was thinking "I am curious when Curtis will drop his video for this week". And here it is!
Excellent video, really helped me with my decision making. The new firmware that came for mixpre this week included AutoMix and Sound Reports. the F series are great and you get a lot for your money, used to own F8. (only major downside was the headphone amp) thanks for your time and effort put in this review
I know this is an older video, but I still find a lot of value on watching them. My question to Curtis is, it's now March 2023. Given the price difference between the Zoom F6 and the Sound Device Mix-Pre 3 II is $150, what do you consider to be the better option and why?
It comes down to how many inputs you need and your preferences. I’m my case, I’d choose the MixPre-3 II which is what I use to record most of my RUclips videos. Ergonomically it works better for me and I prefer the sound of the MixPre preamps. I also like that I can just pull the USB thumb drive out of the side to get the files without having to remove a battery to get to the SD card. I also find the MixPre menus much more intuitive and quicker to navigate.
I like MixPre lighting each knob to show which one is clipping without needing to check the screen and which number of channel. But seen setup of MixPre 6 up close the biggest issue was powering it. The L Mount adapter was too odd use in sound bag and we had issue that the metal tabs not connect well and slight movement would disconnect, we had to use large powerbank at the end to power it with being afraid with the flimsy small usb type c could break over time. Zoom F6 with L-mount for me would be a better solution as have many f970 batteries on set to power it for a long time.
2:07 I am conditioned to laugh due to the over abundance off insanely bass boosted memes. Awesome review, I've been binge watching so many of your field recording related videos and I am still undecided between this or the Mix Pre 3, especially given the fact that I can get an Orca bag plus SD card bundle on the Zoom, still less than what the Mix pre 3 ii by itself costs. Very difficult. Thanks for the great insights!
Awesome review man. This device is certainly an overkill for me but my wife just surprised me with the Zoom F6 and NTG5 mic for my birthday ... little over the top for my start up RUclips channel ...lol I am learning a lot from you about audio. Thank you
That gain feature is simply mind blowing and it opens up a ton of possibilities. It looks like you could practically start recording blindfolded, and not even look at the gain, but I'm guessing there's at least some loss in quality vs optimizing the gain first.
The outputs are really nothing to rave about, especially since the headphone amp is pretty noisy, but man do the recordings sound great and the built-in Ambisonics encoding is amazing given the price point. The BTA-1 Bluetooth adapter and app are a must have for anyone who records a lot because being able to quickly name and rename tape and move between folders is just so much easier.
A technical tour de force. , thank you. After listening to the equally briiliant video on the Mixpre 6, the form factor, analog limiters, lighted dials and screen won out. the unit fits winderfully under a Sony A73, winner. These videos are game changers. Again thank you..
Excellent comprehensive review Curtis, after viewing I feel as though if an F6 was in front of me I would know my way around it without any difficulty. Keep up the great work !
Hallo Curtis Judd thank you for this good informations. I work with these audio recorder 2 years and i like it. Since the zoom f6 is very small, it is not easy to adjust the settings. Otherwise, I am very satisfied with the recorder.
Having owned the F6 for a couple of days now (still haven't been able to take it outside for some field recording because of the weather, but I've been using it around the house), I can definitely vouch for it. It's really high quality and powerful for the price. At almost twice the price of the F6, I can't see how the MixPre-3 II would be a good purchase. Maybe brand loyalty and if you don't have a budget. Comparing them, or even talking about the MixPre-3 II, makes no sense to me at all. My only complaint about the F6 is the small size of the knobs. Or rather, how cramped the controls are. But it's a very minor complaint. My hands are about 19x19cm and I can operate the knobs comfortably, but with and without the bag (K-Tek), but a little bit more room between the knobs would've been nice. I reckon that this very small complaint of mine will go away rather quickly as I use the F6 more, since the only times I'd use the knobs would be right before and right after recording. There's no need to ride the knobs while recording with 32-bit float after all.
Glad you're enjoying your F6. I still prefer the MixPre. The headphone amp is quite a bit better, I prefer the ergonomics of the menu system, and the preamps sound a bit warmer.
This excellent overview is timely because I’m about to make some video and sound recordings on the 7 Train above-ground station platforms of the New York subway system. I did a test on Friday on one of the 7 Train platforms, and both my ears and iZotope RX are telling me that the dynamic range of the sound is significant. As a result of the test, I know where I want my gain level to be in relation to the ambient, regular sound of the platform and the trains’ sound, including the sound of 7 Express trains barreling through a local station, and whether I want to use a low cut filter and, if so, how much to cut (which, given the amount of low frequency energy that these trains generate, very much affects both the overall sound and my clipping point). I also now have settings that will be repeatable, with minor adjustments, on other 7 Train platforms. Now Zoom tells me that its F6 makes the test and my settings unnecessary. I just put the F6 on 32 bit/dual converter and, voilà, I don’t have to worry about tests, dynamic range, clipping, low cut filters or repeatability. Indeed, the F6 will just set unity gain and what it does after that is apparently none of my business, until I open my recordings in iZotope or Logic and try to figure out what I’ve recorded. I do want to try this, but I won’t be spending US$650 for the privilege. One important question, to which I’ve yet to see an answer, is why Zoom has done away with setting gain and Sound Devices hasn’t. I have a suspicion that the difference just might have to do with post-recording processing :) I also have no idea what happens if you try to use a wireless lav with these settings. Right now, colour me skeptical.
Hi Justin, thanks. At this point I’ll probably look at the L8 which appears to be aimed more at podcasting. The L-12 appears to be aimed more at recording bands.
This is amazing but argh I REALLY wish they would release an F8 updated with 32-bit float support! I really love the F8 in every way, and never clipping would make it truly the perfect recorder.
Nice to have two solid options to chose between! In both cases, the high dynamic range recording (dual A/D converter ant 32 bit float format) creates a massive test of the quality of the preamp, and both are producing amazing results at either extreme. I've been holding off on replacing my H4N, but I'm leaning towards the MixPre 3 II, though I'll have to chew on this a bit more. Some of the features of the F6 are hard to pass up...
First of all.wow.thanks for this in depth review. I was wondering why you would chose the premix for yourself? Is it because you are able to power higher end headphones? Or is it because you can set the gain in 32 bit float? Build quality? What is it Chris? I‘m dying to know:)
Yes, many little things: can set the gain, has an analogue limiter in 24-but mode, build quality, backup to USB thumb drive, better 3.5mm output, I prefer the menus of the MixPre, and a lot of other tiny things.
@@wcsdiaries about the same volume, different shapes. Nice that the F6 can take Sony batteries on the back, probably keeping the whole thing smaller for longer shoots.
Take my Perkins money!!! I can see this being very useful for my students when they’re working their group projects. I’m not a sound guy, but the 32-bit float will save so much time in post. That’s insane flexible!!! As always, great content! Thank you!
Everything is fine for me. Only thing, I am not able to use my Pro Recording Headphone on Zoom F6. That's an dis advantage. But I am not worried about headphone. Without a headphone also I recorded; no problem. In all Zoom recorder, just see the light meters are at optimum level; and you can leave it alone and continue recording without headphone. When you play, you will hear the sounds are perfect. This is one goodness of Zoom recorders.
I still recommend using headphones so that you know if there are other problems like lavalier microphones picking up clothing rustle or too many plosives.
Thank you for this! So damn helpful. I super appreciate all the time and effort you put into videos like this. Aside from some of the headphone monitoring differences, this fits my needs so much better than any other device as I do a lot of solo or run and gun type work with occasional short films and web series where I'm doing everything. Also for corporate or wedding events when I need to plug in and leave it, this just makes sense.
Thank you for the in depth video Curtis! I just made a real world test with the recorder and maybe you could do some similar videos for the future? I am sure your audience would appreciated that too.
So I was filming an event and had to grab the audio from the DJ that night. The DJ showed up late and couldn’t get his mic settings right, so the audio sounded awful. When I checked the files in post, everything was clipped. Thankfully, because of 32-bit float I just lowered the levels and it ended up sounding fine.
This is insane. This is a whole world of insane. If I'm hearing this correctly there is no longer any need to do any gainstaging or to bother with compression or to buy another preamp. This one unit does it all. This is almost equivalent to getting raw for photos or using Illustrator with vector images. Basically no matter how large or small you make it, it's perfect audio quality. Gone are the days of preamp noise and hiss. Gone are the days of clipping audio.
In most cases, yes. Note that if you use wireless microphones, the wireless system and lavalier mic will be the dynamic range bottleneck. The dynamic range demo was with a high quality shotgun microphone connected via XLR cable. But, yes, in this scenario, this is a huge change! And a welcome one!
Hi Curtis! I'm loving your RUclips channel and it's much appreciated. Can you make a video showing the differences between Zoom F6 and F8 for someone that is using it for filmmaking? Thanks
Thanks André. The biggest difference is that the F6 appears to be intended as a specialty recorder for bag drops in cars when there isn't room for you in the car and similar situations. The F8n is made for pretty much every other film production situation.
Thank you Curtis, I think you've sold me on the f6 for my needs.. @ 24:40 I see a Lego tyre 🤣 I remember when my son was growing up and standing on those evil little blocks in the middle of the night... ouch. For the size, The f6 is perfect to fit into my rig (and looks great) but with that float option... It's pretty fool proof by the looks of things and sometimes I feel rushed setting my white balance, iso, zebras etc. so one thing less to worry about is a great thing.
having rather enjoyed your review I just treated myself to the F6... now the excruciating wait for delivery... thank you for your reviews BTW, a class of their own.
Another top-quality review, Curtis. Kudos...and thanks for putting this together. As a one-man-band, I love the idea of 32bit float, it's nearly magical in forgiveness. My workaround has always been to record audio to two channels, with one being set down -6dB as a safety. For 99% of my talking head work, it's been a good workaround. The gear-hound in me really wants to get this, but I can't yet justify it. Thanks again for giving us your opinion and comparisons.
Excellent video Curtis . The zoom f6 was on my list but ended being a little bit out of my budget. However, in the end I purchased the Zoom F4 as it was on a special deal. I Also purchased you F4 course which helped me get up and running with way better audio this previously recorded with my tascam recorder. . Enjoyed the video. JF
Conclusion: The recorder that says "Goodbye!" to you, wins haha. Keep this in mind, manufacturers. Also "unity gain" is a bit misleading for tech people, since that term typically means zero gain for an operational amplifier chip (opamp). The way you had your diagram, it would imply that the preamp wasn't amplifying anything but rather "buffering" the low level microphone signal. The better term would be "fixed gain", since there is gain, it's just not adjustable. Great review, thank you!
Thanks. Interestingly, unity gain is the term Zoom uses in describing this so I'm not sure exactly what they mean. Perhaps fixed gain would be a better choice. Also, I don't know if you saw to the end of the video, but even the friendly "goodbye" message didn't make the F6 my favorite choice in this range of recorders. :-)
@@curtisjudd If Zoom chose to use it, then it was probably something that was lost in translation. Unity implies "1", hence unity gain is equivalent to no gain because you're multiplying the signal by 1x ("gain of 1"). That's how it is in the electronics world at least. Regarding favorites, you've correctly pointed out that different people will have their own preferences based on their workflows. I do corporate video very much "on the side" as part of a larger service package, but I end up creating a lot of my own custom products when market solutions are too expensive or underperform. One of your older reviews caused me to create my own portable preamp when I realized that Sound Devices was the only company with high-enough tech specs for some of my applications - but I thought I could get to that level with a custom device without having to spend that kind of money, so I did. The "value proposition" of the F6 and MixPre II is much better. Personally, I don't like to overspend on equipment - I prefer reinvesting into other business aspects. Your reviews are as good and as comprehensive as they could humanly be. Thank you for making them! -Nick
You’ve made a mistake in the “recovery” section. The noise floor will be identical in all three sections as it is unaffected by fader operations. The “impressive” -100db noise floor that you were seeing is because you accidentally analysed a small part of section TWO that PRECEDED the bit of section two that you swiped for manual normalisation. Watch the video again and you’ll see what I mean. Rgds Jeremy (calibration specialist for a chip manufacturer for audio devices) P.S. Great video nonetheless - you’ve sold me; I’ll definitely be buying one over the next couple of days! :-)
I used to own the Mixpre 3M, and a dealbreaker for me, who is doing a lot of interviews for branded content, is how power hungry the Mixpre is. Now, I only had the 4xAA battery adapter, and ended up buying a power bank for it, but being able to power the Zoom off of AA batteries for a whole day is important for me.
@@itsjantore With disposable Li-Ion batteries, recording one channel without phantom power to MP3, maybe 20 hours. In real-world use with eneloop Ni-MH rechargeables and recording 32-bit float with two phantom powered channels I'm looking at more like 4 and half hours.
So looks like the Zoom F6 has a bad USB related bug that I recently discovered - in USB Stereo Mix Mode, the audio signal from the recorder will drop in pitch and even delay by a half to 1 second when listening to it on the PC. I've been using it to stream on Twitch over the past few weeks and it does this at least once on *every* stream which requires me to exit USB mode and re-enable it on the recorder. I've tried different USB 3.0 ports with no change as well as updated the FW to 1.3. Next I need to rule out using Streamlabs OBS, my USB-C cable, and try different XLR mics from the equation. If those aren't it then I'll be contacting Zoom about it.
Just a fabulous review Curtis - yours are easily the best audio equipment reviews on you tube. By Far. Just one question. When you choose to record in 24-bit or lower, do the fader knobs become gain knobs?
Hi Scott, thanks! The knobs are still fader knobs by default, even in 24-bit mode. But there is another mode you can change in the menu which allows you to use the knobs as gain knobs until you press record, at which point they become faders.
@@curtisjudd Thanks again Curtis. So if the knobs are still faders but 24-bit does not have the benefit of float, how do you set gain to prevent clipping?
The + / - 60db recovery in the beginning was the most impressive thing I've ever seen lol
Yes, impressive what they’ve achieved!
Yeah, ditto. I wouldn't have thought this was possible, or it would be possible but sound like junk with a noticable noise floor.
@@markjob6354 Me too! I think this way of recording is going to become a standard method among all audio recorder manufacturers. Wonder who will jump first!?
What price Limiters, now? Almost pointless?
FACTS. Can other Devices Achieve this?? Working in Studio this is Something I NEVER SEEN.
Great video, Curtis! And thanks for the shout-out. 🤓🙏
Thanks Gerald! Thanks for covering the audio interface aspects of the F6!
Curtis, first of all THANKS for your well done informational YT channel. I purchased the F6 for a short film I made a few weeks ago and it worked flawlessly in 32 bit for the barely audible young actor along with a scene with a lot of loud screaming, and crying. I purchased it based on your initial review of this great piece. THANK YOU and I am glad you have the reviews you do.
Thanks and really glad to hear it’s working well. Those whisper to yelling situations can be rough, but much easier with this.
You've just sold me on it twice!
@@spo5egy 👍
*CORRECTION* F6 CAN record 32-bit Float at 192kHz. To do so, you must turn off the LR Mix and AutoMix and Limiters. *ALSO* recently found that many cameras record rather noisy audio when you feed audio from the F6's output to the camera's microphone input. I didn't have this issue with the BMPCC6K when I sent a line level signal but did have the issue with a Panasonic GH5 with a mic level signal. I have reported this issue to Zoom North America. AND, DaVinci Resolve now handles 32-bit float files.
Would be nice if it gave you a hint as to why 192kHz is grayed out when it is. Potential firmware update, Zoom? 😀
@Zlatko Zlatev Hi Zlatko. If I am correct then you only change the fader (output) but not the gain if you have set it to 32 Bit.
is it better than mix-pre?
@@jukarnariusIt does. I use the tone generator to set the levels on output when its plugged into cameras.
@Zlatko Zlatev But only in 32 bits mode Isn`t?. I want this function on 24 bits mode with limiters. Zoom ¡It's annoying!
Curtis, your style is incredible - from the short and succinct intro with the text-based channel intro and summary (both a rarity these days!) to the professional and practical delivery.
Even if most of these devices cost far too much for me to even consider, I still await your every new notification. Sound capture, warm confidence, classy no-frills editing - there’s everything to strive for!
Wow, thanks MyO! That means a lot.
Exactly - detailed, sharp and straight to the point - no silly jokes etc. just love your style too!!
I agree. I skip those unprofessional reviewers on youtube especially when they start out with waaaaats up guuuys. Etc..
Hi Curtis: I just wanted to take this opportunity and thank you for your very thorough and direct reviews and how to videos you do here on your RUclips Channel. You are easy to listen to, easy to understand, and you have a great gifting to teach :) I learn so much from watching all your various reviews and analysis of audio and video products. These are the tools we are all using as film makers almost every day, and it's greatly appreciated. You are an important technical resource.
Thanks so much, Mark. I really appreciate the feedback!
@@curtisjudd No, thank You Curtis. You're a walking techno-encyclopedia of Digital video and audio production.
@Curtis Judd - Have you done a review of the Atomos Sumo 19 ? I'm giving it some serious consideration for purchase.
Definitely one of the best pieces of kit I’ve ever used. Not worrying about gain makes one-man-crew operations so much easier. Been using this for weeks and I love it.
👍
Insane details, imagine in a decade when 48 bit recording is available so it can recover the file even after unplug the microphone 😅
Hahaha!
64bit it records the future. Lol
Don't stop on 48, better 128 bits when you just stay at home watching your favourite movies while ZOOM shoots and edits and does all the video production for you 😅
I wait also of this possibility with 48 bit recording 😅
@@peterwiessenthaner5107 it'll just tap on your thoughts and provide a normalized track
I just receently bought one of these (in Australia), based on your review. I love it!
32-bit, clipless audio is such a profound, incredible leap forward, and I can't thank you enough for bringing it to my attention.
As a solo videographer, I'm certainly never going back!
...
Of note, I found that - beyond just letting me set the perfect 'gain' in post, I was also able to apply some really extreme EQ to the 32-bit WAVs inside Adobe Premiere (a 20dB swing from -10dB to +10dB) without the usual appearance of coloring/ugliness/smearing I'd otherwise expect in a highly-processed sound. (I don't actually know if any of Adobe Premiere's EQs are specifically linear phase but doubt it). Or so it appeared to me, anyway:
...
On the F6 I recorded 32-bit/48kHz, and just two days previously the H6 (24-bit/48kHz) - in the same theatre/space, same mic (NTG3).
The space isn't acoustically treated for bass, so (coupled with the NTG3s low-midness), I have to apply a very strong EQ cut to lows, and boost to highs.
I applied the same (massive) EQ to both recordings, and the 32-bit just SINGS.
...
On top of that, Zoom knocked it out of the park with the power options. I bought an Atomos 2-pack and charger, with over 8 hours of run time on a single L-battery, which can be swapped out in mere seconds. I'm not going to miss AA batteries at all. Stupidly happy.
...
Thanks again Curtis.
Thanks for you insights, Greyfoo!
my jaw nearly hit the floor on that audio recovery section. i was expecting some audible floor noise at least. i am absolutel buying one of these this week. i was going to get an h6 but heck..... this thing is a beast.
Good call - much better investment than the H6. :)
great review Curtis. I just got mine and am wading though it. Love the 32 bit float!
Congrats on the new recorder, Philip! Contact me with any questions any time!
This device is excellent for recording conferences that have questions coming from the audience and there is not a "roaming" mic nearby. In post you can correct the volume without raising the noise floor. It will save TONS of time in post-production! Conversely if you clip the audio this device will save you big time! WOW! Just WOW!
👍
Why am i watching this when i already have the zoom f6? (love it. just used it for a week on a web series)
Hahaha! Glad to hear it’s working well for you!
You're trying to prevent buyer's remorse ;) Happens to all of us, man!
@@HeliumContent loooool. Maybe so. I will say, all this time later, the 32 bit float saved my arse when I stupidly tried to shoot three cameras at the same time _while_ running the sound. Screwed up the levels on some takes, didnt catch it on set. Was able to recover the tracks because i could raise the levels. moral of the story: find a crew! Oh and that 32 bit float feature is amazing :)
@@LangstoniusRex It's a game-changer - Sound Devices has also incorporated this into their Gen.II Mix-Pre models. It's a great time to be a filmmaker!
So what you're telling me is that this recorder could perfectly capture the sound of my head exploding while watching this demo, even with its sudden and percussive loudness.
Most likely, yes. 😀
Bahahahahaha!!!
Curtis Ju
What a great recording device. Love that dynamic range that it offers and you were able to rescuse the overblown and ‘underblown’ recordings!
👍 pretty neat!
I like that you take into consideration the needs of the solo shooter.
👍
Good review up to your usual high standard.I upgraded from a Zoom F8 to the F6 and loved it. However after a week I decided to swap to the MixPre-6 Mk ii. You've made an accurate comparison between the two, so I won't repeat them, but...
However, I want to note that the 3.5mm Aux mic input on the MP range is really excellent, especially with the smaller units, when the user might be vlogging in the field, as you can plug in a 3.5mm mic that needs plug-in power, without resolving to a bulky XLR adaptor, like the Rode VXLR+. This is especially handy, for "quick and dirty" stereo location sound such as I might use on a holiday, when I can plug in a Rode Stereo Video MicPro.
Point in favour of the F6, compared to the MixPre-3 or 6 Mk ii, is that its iOS App can produce a Sound Report. This is only available on the much more expensive MixPre-10 Mk ii.
For me personally, the draw cards for the MixPre-6 Mk ii, were gain controls in 32 bit mode, 3.5mm stereo input, 1/4" line inputs and the user interface, however I also liked the F6, so much that I might buy it again if I needed the extra inputs, or get a new F8something, when 32 bit comes to the F8 range.
Re your comment about sound reports, maybe check out Sound Devices’s free app WaveAgent if you aren’t already familiar with it. If you use Mac OS Catalina, note that Sound Devices is working on an update.
@@roryonabike5863 Thanks for that Rory. (what's you bike, BTW? - I am also a motorbiker). WaveAgent currently doesn't support 32 bit audio files(!!! DUH) and requires running on a Mac, so it is really a pain in the you know what for field use. In contrast the Zoom iOS App can create this in the field. Too bad about Android users, though. As SD provide Sound Report facility for the MixPre-10 using the WingMan App, I really think they should have that feature for the MixPre-3 and 6, after all it would not cost them anything and the SD products are hardly cheap so intentionally limiting this function seems to me contra productive.
I think you capture my sentiment, too: it’s a tough choice. Both really are quite impressive.
RemekTek Media Hi. Moto Guzzi V7 II. WaveAgent also runs in Windows, but as you say it doesn’t work in iOS. I agree about the WingMan app.
Great overview. Your channel and these detailed reviews really makes it easier to figure out what might work and what might not work. Thank you!!
👍
That "good bye" message sold me out :)
There’s nothing quite like a friendly piece of gear. 🤓
That 32 bit float example is blowing my mind.
It is pretty cool for directly connected mics with a lot of dynamic range. Just remember that it doesn't apply to wireless mic systems - they'll usually clip before the audio gets to the recorder.
Some people may be interested in knowing that B&H is selling the Zoom F6 and the original MixPre-6, which it has units of despite the introduction of version II, for the same price, US$650. That is $200 less than the price for a MixPre-6ii.
Thank you Rory.
My mind is blown within the first 2:30 minutes! The post-gain-editing has me stunned. Absolutely great review
Thanks Emily. Happy recording!
Ha! You got an NTG3! Sweet! Do you have or are you doing an F6 course? Maybe you mention it later. Not all the way through the video yet. So far it’s awesome!! 👍
NTG3, finally added to the kit. Can finally cross that off the list. :) Yes, definitely planning a Zoom F6 course!
Thanks CJ! That’s a great feature! Thanks for the MixPre comparison.
👍
Hi,
Great review! thank you so much!!!!
I couldn't see if the F6 show the actual gain for each volume knob.
Imagine that you have 2 mics for stereo recording and you need perfectly "aligned" gains for both tracks. Does it offer this control or only on the visuals?
Yes, you can link 2 or more channels together so that you can set their faders or trim with one control, thus ensuring they are at the exact same level.
@@curtisjudd perfect!! Thank you so much for the clarification!!!!
Hi Curtis, I recently did some live streams with my Zoom F6 with the Sony A7IV. Using the tone generator and then dropping the line out level from the Zoom F6 to -21.5dB to hit the right level on my camera, I was getting (at least to my ears), excellent sound that was free of any issues. I thought this might be relevant for Sony shooters using the F6. I tested also with the Sony ZVE10 which has very similar preamps to the A7IV and again, same excellent result. Both cameras here only have microphone level inputs.
👍
DAMN YOU! I was so proud of my H5...Then I saw this video LOL.
Hahaha! The H5 still holds its own. Happy recording!
and me the H4n Pro :C bad pre-gains though!! had to buy a fethead to fix that.
You know that there is f8 right?
Curtis Judd surely knows this, but others may not. Sound Devices puts its headphone volume control on the side because that knob is also used to set menu values, including gain. It’s the same on my Sound Devices 702T, a recorder that sold for four times the price of a MixPre-3. The whole point is that, unlike with the faders, one can’t accidentally change isolated track values (a good reason to NOT override the factory default on a MixPre recorder and use the faders to control isolated track gain).
The assumption is that one is either using no bag, a bag large enough that there is enough clearance to get your hand in (are you also using right angle XLR connectors, because, if you aren’t, clearance shouldn’t be an issue), or a bag that has side access for one’s hand. For purpose-built sound bags, side access is the norm. In any event, I don’t know why someone would be messing around with headphone volume in the middle of recording in the first place :)
Thanks Rory . Do you have any recommendations on bags with side access for the MixPre-10?
Curtis Judd Hi Curtis. I purchased a bag, made by Gunther Kortwich, for a Sound Devices 702T that I also use for a MixPre-3. Mr. Kortwich died in 2015. His company, filmtontechnik, is active but apparently has stopped making sound recording bags. When I made my purchase, Gotham Sound, where I purchased the bag, was one of the few Kortwich dealers in the U.S.
I tried out bags made by Petrol (now produced by Sachtler), K-TEK and Orca as well as Kortwich. It took less than a minute to choose the Kortwich. If you can find one second-hand that fits, go for it.
However, most of the time I use both the 702T and the MixPre-3 without a bag. I still use the 702T over the MixPre if its weight and bulk aren’t an issue, or if I’m going to a place where I want a recorder that is built like a tank. It’s still a brilliant recorder.
@@roryonabike5863 Thanks Rory. Unfortunate that filmtontechnik stopped making the sound bags. I used the 744T for a project several years back. Built like a tank, indeed!
What happens if one tries to use a wireless lav mike with the F6 set for 32 bit/dual converters?
The wireless system or lavalier mic are almost certainly going to be the dynamic range limiting factors.
@@curtisjudd I am considering the F6 to record a panel discussion, 2 boomed NTG 5s as backup to 4 individual lavs. Are there wireless Lavs that will be able to take advantage of the 32bit, or would the Zoom F2 or Tentacle Sync Track E be a better option? Thank you in advance :-)
@@LordCaes Zaxcom makes wireless systems with a feature they call Neverclip. It does not use a 32-bit float wav file, but a proprietary format called MARF. It achieves the same thing but really works best with Zaxcom mixer/recorders and are very expensive - in a totally different league to the F6. Assuming you're not looking to spend that much money, I would say the F2 or Track E would be good options.
@@curtisjudd Thanks very much!
I think you really hit the spot when you said that in an ideal world there would be a Zoom f8n with the 32bit dual recording technology.
I think I'd definitely buy an f6 if it was slightly bigger and offer an hirose power input and a proper headphone amp, as well as a real stereo out.
👍
Wow, I was really looking forward to this review, and you did not disappoint! Long list of questions, sorry:
1) Since the F6 has dual ADC's combined with the 32-bit recording, vs. the MixPre II with only 32-bit, what is the performance difference there? How do the dual ADC's contribute to the overall dynamic range?
2) Additionally, in your test of the "recoverability" of the audio clips, how does the F6 perform in raising the levels in post if the sound source itself was very quiet? I assume you were speaking at the same moderate volume in all the samples. Based on my understanding of 32-bit recording (which is admittedly limited), the recorder basically redivides the relative difference in amplitude for a sound wave at the given fader setting, which is what allows you to bring up the volume in post without introducing much extra noise. But what if you already had the fader set at +60 dB, and still had to bring it up a lot in post? I'm probably really misunderstanding 32-bit, but I was just wondering if you could clarify that a bit.
3) Is there a practical reason why the ability to set the gain on the MixPre II would be preferable to the unity gain on the F6, assuming you were using 32-bit recording since doing so would presumably result in no difference in ability to record clean audio? Obviously, being able to set the gain in 24-bit would be a big advantage.
4) Given the inability to set the gain on the F6, how does it perform in 24-bit mode in terms of raising the noise floor at high fader levels? Or having inadvertently set the faders too low, how much does raising it in post raise the noise floor?
Again, thank you so much for this review! You've got a lot of amazing content!
Hi John: 1) The MixPre II also has multiple ADCs. They don't say exactly how many, but their patent cites 3 ADCs and the process for how they re-combine the output of each to record to 32-bit float. The difference seems to be that on the MixPre, they allowed you the freedom to set the gain, which I suspect has to do with the presumed 3 ADCs. 2) That will depends largely on the microphone, is my guess. Will require more tests. 3) Yes, microphones are generally designed/voiced with the assumption that some amount of gain will be applied post mic preamp. You might not get the optimal performance of some microphones on the F6 given this. I didn't find any obvious examples in my testing so far, so this is only theoretical. 4) In 24-bit and 16 bit modes, you can adjust the gain/trim so in those cases, it performs just like a Zoom F8n, which is to say, very well in terms of noise performance.
Instantly subscribed. Curtis this is the most efficient and polished review I have ever seen on a piece of audio equipment... Flawless victory.
Thanks John, really appreciate the feedback!
Curtis, I may just be another random commenting from the net but I must thank you for basically being relentless and carrying on reviewing audio gear like this. I last commented talking about the F8 when that first came out as I purchased it. It's great to see you still going strong.
Ever since then I've always wanted something with a much better headphone amp for listening to your recordings with a less tinny sound, and mic amp with the warmer base sound of the sound devices but with the live podcast-able features and not at $5000 price point.
The new F6 (less clipping when doing offline recording) and Mix Pre II has me excited about audio interfaces again.
Now I just need to save some money - as for me this is a hobby so the top teir stuff just can not be justified.
Thanks zedamex - really appreciate the feedback. The MixPre line also just added MixAssist which automatically mixes multi-host podcasts more effectively than the AutoMix on the Zoom F series. It's a great time for podcasters!
There is one more advantage to have 32bit which I personally love. You do not have to get your talent talk to set the meters! Skipping this step makes the work (especially when you are a one man band) so much smoother and more comfortable for the talent. I am thinking of buying it only because of this, and the handy battery jack on the back ;)
Good point, though you’ll still want to set the level so you can hear to monitor the shoot.
THANK YOU for doing this video! Though when you initially spoke to these folks about the recorder, we all knew it was a matter of time when you'd review it. The look on your face when the words 'no gain' was used was priceless!
I was surprised how small the unit really is and it seems like they made it that way for mobility. With the least amount of compromises. Being able to power it with a fairly normal battery bank and mountable under a camera on a tripod is impressive especially considering its performance.
I think in the last 7 or so years, I've bought into a couple of online courses. I can figure it out and practice on my own. But I'll definitely be purchasing one of yours when the time comes. Your practical yet thorough approach to gear is first rate!
Thanks so much Ricardo! Happy recording!
Amazing.
You answered every single comment.
Well done Curtis, you have my respect
Thank you Ngoceh.
Great review Curtis! I just purchased this item from a sound production friend and am learning how the device works. I've use the Mix-Pre6 and Zoom H4N before. So I'm learning my way around the ballpark.
Happy recording!
Love your reviews Mr Judd. I’ve just ordered a mix pre 3 ii and your content helped so much researching which was best for my use. Thank you
Thanks Sat and I hope the MixPre works well for you!
Hi Curtis, thank you for your precious work on the platform.
I have a brand new Sennheiser 416, which I'd couple with the G3 Lav Sennheiser. I'm just starting out in the audio world, and I'm not an expert by any means.
I frequently hear the argument “For the price of the Zoom F6, at that point might as well wait a bit longer and get a Sound Devices MixPre 3 II”.
Now, money is tight, but I would spend the extra if you tell me the difference in the noise level is noticeable with an MKH 416 once you start to crank it up. I would mostly record in 32-bit float.
I can't help but mention that I have a person who wants to sell me a Zoom F6 used once, plus a Zoom bag, plus 2 NPF batteries (8500mah) for roughly the equivalent of 500 USD.
The Sound Devices MixPre 3 II would cost me the equivalent of 1120 USD.
I really don't know what to do. The number of accessories and the low price pull me towards the used Zoom F6... but will I give up a lot in terms of noise?
The difference in functions is not really on the table here, since with my workflow, I would use both in the same way, so the differences highlighted wouldn't probably be a Pro or a Con in my specific case.
Again, thank you! Looking forward to reading what you think about this!
In terms of self noise, no, I haven't found the MixPre to a be much different - they're both very clean.
There are other reasons I prefer the MixPre, mostly ergonomic, but you can make great sound with the F6. The most important thing will be to learn it inside and out. You'll make great sound.
If you need any help learning the F6, we have a course over at school.learnlightandsound.com.
@@curtisjudd thank you, I’ll check out your course
You've become my go-to for all things audio for video. Thank you!
👍
I just today had a completely BS situation of my F6 locking up at the beginning of an extremely important shoot for my company. After jamming with my Tentaclesync, the two inputs I was using (1 and 6) completely locked up- no audio whatsoever. No amount of powering down and back up helped, everything was set and tested last night so there were no prior issues. I finally had to do a factory reset, and it worked immediately. I had to jam again, but no problems afterwards. However, I was so shook up with people and clients waiting wondering what was going on, and maybe having to call the entire shoot because of the F6, I forgot that the thing comes up in 24 bit / poly mode, and didn't set it back to 32 bit /stereo-mode. So all the audio is in this poly BS mode from multiple mics. I am so pissed off at myself and the F6, I'm sick. I'm d**n lucky I had my levels set right. Yes, Operator Error, but AFTER the F6 locked up- THAT is on Zoom. I emailed them with the facts and demanded the firmware be reworked so it comes up in 32 bit float- stereo/mono mode- what people are buying it for, as default, so if someone else has to panic like I did with the F6 today, when they do a hail Mary factory reset, it will come up with the highest feature-set it has.
Thanks for sharing Dale. Sorry to hear of the issues and hope Zoom can address the input
Issue.
Davinci now supports 32bit float. Great channel by the way, full of concise info and considered opinion and no flummery!
Thanks Llywelyn.
We've got the MixPre 3 II connected to an EVA1 for video work, but need a permanent solution in our new podcast studio. The F6 looks good, having more inputs at a cost effective price! Thanks for doing the comparison. Very helpful!
Thanks. I'll be curious to hear how you like the F6 relative to the MixPre.
I ended up buying a F6 that was a floor model for $580. I really wanted the mix pre-6 but I don't do enough sounds jobs to justify the extra $$ for it for two less inputs (even though I really prefer the combo inputs over standard XLRs).
I've only recorded a handful of things with it so far but I really do love it. I don't worry as much about watching the levels and instead focus on the subjects being filmed.
Thank you for helping make the decision!
👍 glad to hear it’s working out!
@@curtisjudd Quick update, I've only had one issue so far, and that happened when I inserted an older SD card that has become frozen (you can access the files on it, but can't write anything new). The F6 said error but then armed and said it was recording. Long story short it didn't record anything, and there was nothing to recover. Had I tried to format the card I would have figured it out, but it was a bit of a rush and I've used other cards in it without formatting and had no issues. But you live and you learn (and always record a test sample on the card before using it that day). Luckily I had a scratch track running to a camera so all isn't lost, but it's not 32bit so less wiggle room in post.
@@FrankETaylor Thanks for sharing. Definitely a good idea to format and test the card first. In fact, in the System->SD Card menu, there's a testing function to confirm the card will work well with the F6.
@@curtisjudd Yeah it's funny because I ran that after the fact just to see what it would say and it said the card was fine. But yeah, if I had tried to format it first I would have had a less stressful weekend. I talked to them on the phone and they might fix that in a firmware update, but they had never encountered anything like that so who knows.
LOL! I literally one minute ago was watching Frank Howard's video and was thinking "I am curious when Curtis will drop his video for this week". And here it is!
👍 thanks for the rad thumbnail!
Excellent video, really helped me with my decision making.
The new firmware that came for mixpre this week included AutoMix and Sound Reports.
the F series are great and you get a lot for your money, used to own F8. (only major downside was the headphone amp)
thanks for your time and effort put in this review
Thanks!
I know this is an older video, but I still find a lot of value on watching them. My question to Curtis is, it's now March 2023. Given the price difference between the Zoom F6 and the Sound Device Mix-Pre 3 II is $150, what do you consider to be the better option and why?
It comes down to how many inputs you need and your preferences. I’m my case, I’d choose the MixPre-3 II which is what I use to record most of my RUclips videos. Ergonomically it works better for me and I prefer the sound of the MixPre preamps. I also like that I can just pull the USB thumb drive out of the side to get the files without having to remove a battery to get to the SD card. I also find the MixPre menus much more intuitive and quicker to navigate.
I like MixPre lighting each knob to show which one is clipping without needing to check the screen and which number of channel. But seen setup of MixPre 6 up close the biggest issue was powering it. The L Mount adapter was too odd use in sound bag and we had issue that the metal tabs not connect well and slight movement would disconnect, we had to use large powerbank at the end to power it with being afraid with the flimsy small usb type c could break over time. Zoom F6 with L-mount for me would be a better solution as have many f970 batteries on set to power it for a long time.
Sounds like you got a defective battery sled on the MixPre. They should replace it for you. Did you contact SD support?
@@curtisjudd we just gave it back to the shop
@@chungdha Good luck with the F6, then. I hope it works well for you.
Thank you for mentioning the auto-mix feature. Definitely something for me to look into.
👍
2:07 I am conditioned to laugh due to the over abundance off insanely bass boosted memes. Awesome review, I've been binge watching so many of your field recording related videos and I am still undecided between this or the Mix Pre 3, especially given the fact that I can get an Orca bag plus SD card bundle on the Zoom, still less than what the Mix pre 3 ii by itself costs. Very difficult. Thanks for the great insights!
😅 It sounds like you may have some solid reasoning on a direction.
Awesome review man. This device is certainly an overkill for me but my wife just surprised me with the Zoom F6 and NTG5 mic for my birthday ... little over the top for my start up RUclips channel ...lol I am learning a lot from you about audio. Thank you
Great combo! Audio gear: check!
No.2 item I bought it after your video. $550USD in Australia, what a great price. thank you Curtis.
👍
just about to start using it on our channel this week for in studio recording and work our way out to the field after we get to know and learn it
Congrats! I hope it works well for you!
Curtis Judd your my audio hero
Curtis, thanks for taking the time and sharing your thoughts. . . . . So appreciate it
Thanks Matthew!
That gain feature is simply mind blowing and it opens up a ton of possibilities. It looks like you could practically start recording blindfolded, and not even look at the gain, but I'm guessing there's at least some loss in quality vs optimizing the gain first.
The bottleneck becomes your microphone and especially wireless mics.
The outputs are really nothing to rave about, especially since the headphone amp is pretty noisy, but man do the recordings sound great and the built-in Ambisonics encoding is amazing given the price point. The BTA-1 Bluetooth adapter and app are a must have for anyone who records a lot because being able to quickly name and rename tape and move between folders is just so much easier.
👍
A technical tour de force. , thank you.
After listening to the equally briiliant video on the Mixpre 6, the form factor, analog limiters, lighted dials and screen won out. the unit fits winderfully under a Sony A73, winner.
These videos are game changers. Again thank you..
🙏
after watching this video i bought F6 Thank you
@@curtisjudd Thank your videos are amazing love it
Happy recording!
Wow, I'm impressed with that wide dynamic range adjustment capability. I would buy it just for that. Wish I had this unit years ago.
Pretty cool - a substantial step forward for audio recording.
Excellent comprehensive review Curtis, after viewing I feel as though if an F6 was in front of me I would know my way around it without any difficulty. Keep up the great work !
Thanks!
Hallo Curtis Judd thank you for this good informations. I work with these audio recorder 2 years and i like it. Since the zoom f6 is very small, it is not easy to adjust the settings. Otherwise, I am very satisfied with the recorder.
Glad it works well for you 👍🎙
That's crazy... useful. That wide dynmic range capability is worth it alone.
Pretty amazing!
Having owned the F6 for a couple of days now (still haven't been able to take it outside for some field recording because of the weather, but I've been using it around the house), I can definitely vouch for it. It's really high quality and powerful for the price. At almost twice the price of the F6, I can't see how the MixPre-3 II would be a good purchase. Maybe brand loyalty and if you don't have a budget. Comparing them, or even talking about the MixPre-3 II, makes no sense to me at all.
My only complaint about the F6 is the small size of the knobs. Or rather, how cramped the controls are. But it's a very minor complaint. My hands are about 19x19cm and I can operate the knobs comfortably, but with and without the bag (K-Tek), but a little bit more room between the knobs would've been nice. I reckon that this very small complaint of mine will go away rather quickly as I use the F6 more, since the only times I'd use the knobs would be right before and right after recording. There's no need to ride the knobs while recording with 32-bit float after all.
Glad you're enjoying your F6.
I still prefer the MixPre. The headphone amp is quite a bit better, I prefer the ergonomics of the menu system, and the preamps sound a bit warmer.
I enjoy my F6 too. Maybe more than you, because mine gets no competition from a Mix Pre 😁.
Happy recording with your F6!
Are you kidding me? That audio recovery is almost magic!
👍
This excellent overview is timely because I’m about to make some video and sound recordings on the 7 Train above-ground station platforms of the New York subway system. I did a test on Friday on one of the 7 Train platforms, and both my ears and iZotope RX are telling me that the dynamic range of the sound is significant. As a result of the test, I know where I want my gain level to be in relation to the ambient, regular sound of the platform and the trains’ sound, including the sound of 7 Express trains barreling through a local station, and whether I want to use a low cut filter and, if so, how much to cut (which, given the amount of low frequency energy that these trains generate, very much affects both the overall sound and my clipping point). I also now have settings that will be repeatable, with minor adjustments, on other 7 Train platforms.
Now Zoom tells me that its F6 makes the test and my settings unnecessary. I just put the F6 on 32 bit/dual converter and, voilà, I don’t have to worry about tests, dynamic range, clipping, low cut filters or repeatability. Indeed, the F6 will just set unity gain and what it does after that is apparently none of my business, until I open my recordings in iZotope or Logic and try to figure out what I’ve recorded. I do want to try this, but I won’t be spending US$650 for the privilege. One important question, to which I’ve yet to see an answer, is why Zoom has done away with setting gain and Sound Devices hasn’t. I have a suspicion that the difference just might have to do with post-recording processing :) I also have no idea what happens if you try to use a wireless lav with these settings. Right now, colour me skeptical.
Definitely understand the skepticism.
Great video, Would love if you did a review of the Zoom LiveTrak L-12.
Hi Justin, thanks. At this point I’ll probably look at the L8 which appears to be aimed more at podcasting. The L-12 appears to be aimed more at recording bands.
@@curtisjudd I didn't even know that was a thing but that looks like a better option for me also!
This is amazing but argh I REALLY wish they would release an F8 updated with 32-bit float support! I really love the F8 in every way, and never clipping would make it truly the perfect recorder.
I agree!
Nice to have two solid options to chose between! In both cases, the high dynamic range recording (dual A/D converter ant 32 bit float format) creates a massive test of the quality of the preamp, and both are producing amazing results at either extreme. I've been holding off on replacing my H4N, but I'm leaning towards the MixPre 3 II, though I'll have to chew on this a bit more. Some of the features of the F6 are hard to pass up...
Agreed. Zoom and SD aren’t making this a simple decision.
First of all.wow.thanks for this in depth review.
I was wondering why you would chose the premix for yourself?
Is it because you are able to power higher end headphones?
Or is it because you can set the gain in 32 bit float?
Build quality?
What is it Chris?
I‘m dying to know:)
Yes, many little things: can set the gain, has an analogue limiter in 24-but mode, build quality, backup to USB thumb drive, better 3.5mm output, I prefer the menus of the MixPre, and a lot of other tiny things.
@@curtisjudd thank you.
That was insightful.
Keep it up
I wonder how is the self-noise when - 60db recovery? Thanks for the great review 🙏
Surprisingly good, though it depends on the microphone's self-noise characteristics.
@@curtisjudd thanks a lot for the quick reply! I am about to buy one ☺️🙏
@@curtisjudd Between this and the mix pre 3, which do you think is the smaller setup for weddings/run and gun filmmakers?
@@wcsdiaries about the same volume, different shapes. Nice that the F6 can take Sony batteries on the back, probably keeping the whole thing smaller for longer shoots.
@Curtis Judd: Thank you for all your excellent work. Your gear reviews are all fantastic - clear, in-depth, and incredibly helpful.
Thanks Jonathan!
Hey Curtis. Great review.. What is the device that you used at 6:43? Good luck on your channel..
That’s a DI box. It converts unbalanced signals, such as from instruments, to balanced so you can run longer cables.
Take my Perkins money!!! I can see this being very useful for my students when they’re working their group projects. I’m not a sound guy, but the 32-bit float will save so much time in post. That’s insane flexible!!!
As always, great content! Thank you!
Thanks Heng, and great to hear from you!
Everything is fine for me. Only thing, I am not able to use my Pro Recording Headphone on Zoom F6. That's an dis advantage. But I am not worried about headphone. Without a headphone also I recorded; no problem. In all Zoom recorder, just see the light meters are at optimum level; and you can leave it alone and continue recording without headphone. When you play, you will hear the sounds are perfect. This is one goodness of Zoom recorders.
I still recommend using headphones so that you know if there are other problems like lavalier microphones picking up clothing rustle or too many plosives.
6:40 you can convert musical trs cables etc. to XLR and directly into the recorder, I know because I do this often, especially guitars.
👍
32 bit float is now available in DaVinci Resolve ! And that's a good thing
Yes, new as of 16.2 I believe. The waveform view still doesn't exactly work but it does process the audio correctly.
Thank you for this! So damn helpful. I super appreciate all the time and effort you put into videos like this. Aside from some of the headphone monitoring differences, this fits my needs so much better than any other device as I do a lot of solo or run and gun type work with occasional short films and web series where I'm doing everything. Also for corporate or wedding events when I need to plug in and leave it, this just makes sense.
Thanks swetrich!
Thank you for the in depth video Curtis! I just made a real world test with the recorder and maybe you could do some similar videos for the future? I am sure your audience would appreciated that too.
Thanks.
So I was filming an event and had to grab the audio from the DJ that night. The DJ showed up late and couldn’t get his mic settings right, so the audio sounded awful. When I checked the files in post, everything was clipped. Thankfully, because of 32-bit float I just lowered the levels and it ended up sounding fine.
Nice. 👍
This is insane. This is a whole world of insane. If I'm hearing this correctly there is no longer any need to do any gainstaging or to bother with compression or to buy another preamp. This one unit does it all. This is almost equivalent to getting raw for photos or using Illustrator with vector images. Basically no matter how large or small you make it, it's perfect audio quality. Gone are the days of preamp noise and hiss. Gone are the days of clipping audio.
In most cases, yes. Note that if you use wireless microphones, the wireless system and lavalier mic will be the dynamic range bottleneck. The dynamic range demo was with a high quality shotgun microphone connected via XLR cable. But, yes, in this scenario, this is a huge change! And a welcome one!
@@curtisjudd This is awesome! I bought this a few hours ago. It's coming in the mail tomorrow. I feel like this is godsend for voiceover people.
@@Dracomies Excellent - congratulations and I hope it works well for you!
The wide dynamic range recording demo you showed is pretty friggin' awesome! Great work on this my friend.
Thanks Tomas!
Hi Curtis! I'm loving your RUclips channel and it's much appreciated. Can you make a video showing the differences between Zoom F6 and F8 for someone that is using it for filmmaking? Thanks
Thanks André. The biggest difference is that the F6 appears to be intended as a specialty recorder for bag drops in cars when there isn't room for you in the car and similar situations. The F8n is made for pretty much every other film production situation.
@@curtisjudd keep up! Cheers from Portugal.
And thank you very much!
Thank you Curtis, I think you've sold me on the f6 for my needs.. @ 24:40 I see a Lego tyre 🤣 I remember when my son was growing up and standing on those evil little blocks in the middle of the night... ouch. For the size, The f6 is perfect to fit into my rig (and looks great) but with that float option... It's pretty fool proof by the looks of things and sometimes I feel rushed setting my white balance, iso, zebras etc. so one thing less to worry about is a great thing.
Haha! Oh man, it is no fun to step on legos!
having rather enjoyed your review I just treated myself to the F6... now the excruciating wait for delivery... thank you for your reviews BTW, a class of their own.
Congratulations and happy recording!
This pretty much answered all my questions about the F6, thanks for the great video!
You’re welcome! 👍
Another top-quality review, Curtis. Kudos...and thanks for putting this together. As a one-man-band, I love the idea of 32bit float, it's nearly magical in forgiveness. My workaround has always been to record audio to two channels, with one being set down -6dB as a safety. For 99% of my talking head work, it's been a good workaround. The gear-hound in me really wants to get this, but I can't yet justify it. Thanks again for giving us your opinion and comparisons.
Thanks for the feedback!
Excellent video Curtis . The zoom f6 was on my list but ended being a little bit out of my budget. However, in the end I purchased the Zoom F4 as it was on a special deal. I Also purchased you F4 course which helped me get up and running with way better audio this previously recorded with my tascam recorder. .
Enjoyed the video. JF
Glad the F4 is working out for you! Happy recording!
Thanks for the review. Now when you have time, I think we'd all appreciate a full tutorial on every single function that this thing has!
I will be working on a course as soon as I can reserve enough time off of work. 😀
@@curtisjudd Awesome. Take a vacation or something! lol. Thanks!
I really appreciate your videos! Wonderful quality and very easy to understand :)
Thanks NesHacker.
Conclusion: The recorder that says "Goodbye!" to you, wins haha. Keep this in mind, manufacturers.
Also "unity gain" is a bit misleading for tech people, since that term typically means zero gain for an operational amplifier chip (opamp). The way you had your diagram, it would imply that the preamp wasn't amplifying anything but rather "buffering" the low level microphone signal. The better term would be "fixed gain", since there is gain, it's just not adjustable. Great review, thank you!
Thanks. Interestingly, unity gain is the term Zoom uses in describing this so I'm not sure exactly what they mean. Perhaps fixed gain would be a better choice.
Also, I don't know if you saw to the end of the video, but even the friendly "goodbye" message didn't make the F6 my favorite choice in this range of recorders. :-)
@@curtisjudd If Zoom chose to use it, then it was probably something that was lost in translation. Unity implies "1", hence unity gain is equivalent to no gain because you're multiplying the signal by 1x ("gain of 1").
That's how it is in the electronics world at least.
Regarding favorites, you've correctly pointed out that different people will have their own preferences based on their workflows. I do corporate video very much "on the side" as part of a larger service package, but I end up creating a lot of my own custom products when market solutions are too expensive or underperform. One of your older reviews caused me to create my own portable preamp when I realized that Sound Devices was the only company with high-enough tech specs for some of my applications - but I thought I could get to that level with a custom device without having to spend that kind of money, so I did. The "value proposition" of the F6 and MixPre II is much better. Personally, I don't like to overspend on equipment - I prefer reinvesting into other business aspects. Your reviews are as good and as comprehensive as they could humanly be. Thank you for making them! -Nick
@@oriole8789 Thanks Nick! Would love to hear about your custom preamp some time.
awesome and very instructional video!!! I think this is the best RUclips channel of sound related content. Keep going!
Thanks Ramón!
You’ve made a mistake in the “recovery” section. The noise floor will be identical in all three sections as it is unaffected by fader operations. The “impressive” -100db noise floor that you were seeing is because you accidentally analysed a small part of section TWO that PRECEDED the bit of section two that you swiped for manual normalisation. Watch the video again and you’ll see what I mean.
Rgds Jeremy (calibration specialist for a chip manufacturer for audio devices)
P.S. Great video nonetheless - you’ve sold me; I’ll definitely be buying one over the next couple of days! :-)
Thanks Jeremy! Appreciate the correction.
I used to own the Mixpre 3M, and a dealbreaker for me, who is doing a lot of interviews for branded content, is how power hungry the Mixpre is. Now, I only had the 4xAA battery adapter, and ended up buying a power bank for it, but being able to power the Zoom off of AA batteries for a whole day is important for me.
I don't get anywhere near a full day on the AA batteries in the F6.
Curtis Judd Thats interesting concidering they state 20+ hours on the spec sheet. What hours are you getting?
@@itsjantore With disposable Li-Ion batteries, recording one channel without phantom power to MP3, maybe 20 hours. In real-world use with eneloop Ni-MH rechargeables and recording 32-bit float with two phantom powered channels I'm looking at more like 4 and half hours.
@@curtisjudd I see, thanks for the info!
So looks like the Zoom F6 has a bad USB related bug that I recently discovered - in USB Stereo Mix Mode, the audio signal from the recorder will drop in pitch and even delay by a half to 1 second when listening to it on the PC. I've been using it to stream on Twitch over the past few weeks and it does this at least once on *every* stream which requires me to exit USB mode and re-enable it on the recorder. I've tried different USB 3.0 ports with no change as well as updated the FW to 1.3. Next I need to rule out using Streamlabs OBS, my USB-C cable, and try different XLR mics from the equation. If those aren't it then I'll be contacting Zoom about it.
Sorry to hear. Best wishes sorting it out! Hopefully it can be fixed, whatever the outcome.
Awesome video! Was planning on getting one soon, and this has convinced me!
I hope it works well for you! Happy recording!
Another wonderful video from you. Love your channel and wish the whole youtube world was as well done.
Thanks Paul!
You had me at the 32 bit float. This will be my next audio purchase. :)
👍
Thats really a fantastic review/comparison. Literally all I could wish for to make a decision.
Thank you very much! 🙏
You're most welcome, Peter. Best wishes!
Just a fabulous review Curtis - yours are easily the best audio equipment reviews on you tube. By Far. Just one question. When you choose to record in 24-bit or lower, do the fader knobs become gain knobs?
Hi Scott, thanks! The knobs are still fader knobs by default, even in 24-bit mode. But there is another mode you can change in the menu which allows you to use the knobs as gain knobs until you press record, at which point they become faders.
@@curtisjudd Thanks again Curtis. So if the knobs are still faders but 24-bit does not have the benefit of float, how do you set gain to prevent clipping?
@@ScottHiddelston In the channel menus there is a gain setting.