"he just wants freedom guys!" Yeah, so did Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler. All they wanted was the freedom to do whatever they wanted with no discipline or repercussions.
2:09 - 2:30 "It is completely asinine and evil to suggest that someone's desire for freedom is greater than someone's right to live." I couldn't find the words at the time, but this is exactly what was in my mind the day I heard that this was her defense. You can defend your art as much as you like, but if you need to say it has the privilege of claiming that destroying other people to fill your own needs is justified outside of self-defense, then all you're doing is revealing who the dangerous one really is.
Her task was to apprehend Mae, not fight an OP Sith. She’s a well trained Padawan who understood the dangers. It’s not Sol’s fault she girlbossed too close to the Sun.
Very True, but The Jedi had Qimir dead to rights and Sol let him go to surveil him. I guess, in that sense, he is accountable through his actions. I still think risked so much by consciously confronting the Jedi and is just as belligerent, if not more so . He's pretty lucky tbh, he choose an 9 on 1 fight that should have been 10 on 1 if Mae had any sense of self preservation.
Yes. In peacetime it wouldnt be crazy to bring them on (presumably) just diplomatic missions or investigations. The force empowers Jedi Iniciates. The jedi's practices are not comparable to the Spartans', though superficially similar. Until the clone wars, we can criticize that. "Youth is a matter of perspective. Jedi are trained from a young age to do things they think they can not." ~ Jedi Conselor, SWTOR
There is a passage in the Revenge of the Sith novelization from the point of view of Count Dooku in chapter 2 where it applies all the core tenets of the sith to all the aspects of his life and worldview. I think its a very interesting segment because it truly shows how his selfishness has brought him to a point where he doesn't see other beings as even beings, merely "abstractions" that fit into two categories: assets (tools to be used to further his own interests) and threats.
There was no way, in my opinion, we weren’t going to get Sith designed for people to sympathize with. We’ve had shows about good vampires, werewolves, serial killers, and just about every other evil thing.
Disney are particularly guilty of this in the last decade. Not only have they not been able to create a straight villain for any of their properties in that time (with the sole exception of the High Evolutionary in GotG3, but I feel like James Gunn was sort of grandfathered in as an actually competent storyteller), but they have been taking iconic villains from their own canon and retroactively turning them into sympathetic anti-heroes (see: Maleficent, Cruella, Captain Hook, etc). I mean, for Pete’s sake, Maleficent’s motivation and attitude are quite incontrovertibly clear from her NAME. She is unequivocally and unapologetically EVIL.
The funniest thing about the Maleficent movie is that she was always called Maleficent and it was not a new name she embraced after she was wronged and started down a villainous path. You would think the makers of the film would realize that, if they wanted to make Maleficent a sympathetic character, they should probably should avoid implying she was essentially named “Evil” from birth. But, they assume their audience is stupid.
Thor's take at 18:54 is exactly what I want from Star Wars and perfectly encapsulates my feelings. I don't want to understand the mystery of the Force.
"But if you just look past all the murders, abduction, and indoctrination of a minor into killing, he's totally sympathetic because he talks about freedom. It's all the Jedi's fault for being stabbed in the first place." A "professional" writer actually said that.
the Jedi indoctrinate, so they arent exactly innocent there, however they do have a proper reason, that being due to the childs deeper connection with the force they may fall down a very bad path if they figure it out on their own and proceed to use it for nefarious purposes. its not a good reason, but its a valid one. On the other hand a padawan/jedi is free to leave the order if they so desire, the council may try to convince them not to, but they wont stop them (ahsoka is a prime example of this, though she was basically forced to). a Sith apprentice/acolyte doesnt really get that choice, at least not easily, the master will pretty much do everything in their power to kill this person in order to keep the sith secret
Qimir was just exercising his freedom to wildly swing his red lightsabers all around… it’s not his fault if six Jedi decided to get in the way of his swinging. they shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
Technically speaking, had Sol not acted on impulse "saving Osha" and had the Jedi not just done what he did, namely attack - 8 Jedi versus a guy - who knows if there had even been a battle and massacre.
I don't know if I agree that the Sith will always cause misery to themselves ultimately. Palpatine seemed to be having a grand ol time until the unfortunate incident with the reactor shaft.
So why are people still mad it exists? Clearly you're having fun even of you hate it. It reminds me of all the boys who shat on twilight but kept watching the sequels. You secretly enjoy it
@@suzygirl1843your comment is ignorant ngl. The fan base is passionate so seeing a show of such low quality be called star wars is a slap in the face and the fans are rightfully voicing that disappointment. No one "secretly" likes it you just sound like you're projecting at that point
Thank you for putting clearer and better words than I can ever put together about how I feel on the Force and the "force gods" from that horrendous filoni arc. Often I feel I'm too passionate expressing how I disklike something in a universe I love and people feel it as hate.
I think the reason Vernestra is prominently featured in the show is simply because Headline want to set her wife up as a prominent figure in this era of Star Wars so she can be showhorned into other SW projects in the future, lol😂
This has already being discussed in the EU. I remember reading a comic when I was a kid about a Sith arguing he wanted to be " free", but for a Sith being free means doing whatever the hell they want even if they hurt others.
Freedom from consequences and responsibility to others. Freedom from constraint by your place in a community, a thriving, healthy society. Freedom to be entirely selfish, to do as you please and damn to your fellow man, woman, or anything inbetween. Sociopaths, everywhere.
I think the implication is that he views the Jedi as oppressors. Which to a sith and even to some societies they are. So to be free, he wants the jedi to stop their oppression. though I shouldnt have to theorize this based on him simply stating he wants freedom... there's not really any clear signs of the jedi being that authoritative
Maybe they'll present some psychological origin from which this is the consequence. But he just went there and killed, so, what else? I mean, we have no other things to connect. Yeah, I know, the obvious writing flaws. The thing is, we can't go deeper, because there's nothing, and from what's shown...he's free.
@@fusionwing4208 I wonder if Leslie has seen Easy Rider, which has this little piece if dialogue: Billy : What the hell is wrong with freedom? That's what it's all about. George Hanson : Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different thangs. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em. Billy : Well, it don't make 'em runnin' scared. George Hanson : No, it makes 'em dangerous. Buhhhh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Swamp
Qimir's Parents ... clearly he needed more Hugs and he wouldn't have turned to the Dark Side, JK. FYI the Dahmer line is brilliant keep up the great work
I still honestly think bringing Maul back was a mistake and set a bad precedent for Star Wars. Instead of bringing him back, they should have had an adventure type series focused on him and his secret missions. 2 birds with 1 stone: Getting more Darth Maul, AND getting that Sith focused series we all want.
The two persons mainly responsible: The person who actually kills her. It was his choice to do that. And she herself. She as a Padawan is well enough trained and smart enough to know it might be a bad idea to fight someone who just killed several jedi 1on1. But she still does that. Trying to put all or alot of the blame on anyone else is plain stupid in my opinion. And someone who trys to tell us he who killed a young girl (even though she was a Jedi Padawan) is rightfully doing so is just evil in my book.
They want to make their Katniss Everdeen, but they don't want to go through the legwork of establishing their Katniss like establishing she was a hunter showing how often she failed etc.
your basically asking that because a show of a completely different genre and premise exists, this one isnt worth watching. thats not really a good reason to give for why we shouldnt watch Acolyte. I don't really care for the game of thrones franchise, but I do care a lot about starwars. So i'd be more likely to watch The Acolyte over House of the Dragon, and that has nothing to do with the fact one show is by far inferior (I have heard tons of good things about house of the dragon)
I do think that one (HOTD) is markedly better than the other (Acolyte), in terms of sets, costuming, casting, acting, soundtracking, action, dialogue, hidden meanings and philosophising etc. etc. I recommended Andor to multiple GOT fans and for the most part they liked it. In terms of tone, pacing, maturity levels, etc., Andor would be a better show to use for a fair comparison.
its explained that Maul survived purely due to his hatred, he essentially used the dark side of the force to survive long enough to eventually fuse his bottom half with that mechanical spider thing we see him on in clone wars. the dark side of the force is extremely powerful in that regard... I am certain a human could do the same if they mustered up enough hatred for the dark side to do so (I would argue Anakin did this technically, because the burns he sustained from being literally lit on fire should have definitely killed him)
The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural (but really Maul surviving is started the trivializing of death in Star Wars)
@@fusionwing4208I agree; I always viewed Maul's survival as a "local Sith literally too angry to die" kinda situation. Man's was obsessed with killing Kenobi, and given the way he behaved when we first met him again in Clone Wars, I saw it as a case of him giving in to the Dark Side so much that it warped his psyche; think of it like a person being so addicted to drugs (and getting revenge) that their body literally cannot function without drugs - every other aspect of their life has eroded to dust but they're still alive enough to get their revenge. The Dark Side is just THAT powerful if you're THAT far off the deep end. In the grand scheme of things, EVEN IF Maul's return had happened sometime during Disney SW, I believe his return would be the most believable and make the most sense. Still is to this day...
@@petalpencil1397 I think the important part is that there aren't that many characters of the dark side that can even do that. The other one that comes to mind is Darth Sion. I won't say his survival is unlikely and has issues on it's own, I will agree with people who give it a pass because of what they did with him. They didn' destroy anything he was before, and just added later, creating a memorable character. So if Disney would have people survive wounds they should not because they have a GREAT storyline and character arc - then more people would be okay with it in my opinion. It would also help if it wouldn't happen that often to be honest, keep it rare. In the end, alot of situations where they survived these wounds weren't exactly mandatory in the first place.
No alien can survive, regardless if you are Force-sensitive or not. Maul stays dead in the Prequels and EU (the Clone Wars version, minus the comic, which is non-canon anyway), so that argument is moot.
I for one wouldn't mind seeing a 'Star Wars does Breaking Bad' series, where we show a force sensitive person initially training in the Light Side, but for various reasons is drawn more and more to the Dark Side. I even have an idea who that could be: Moff Gideon.....or at least one of the supposed force sensitive clones he made of himself. Maybe one escaped with no memory of who he is, and is trying to get ahold of these abilities he has, with virtually no one out there to train him (except Luke, who he may be wary of). There is also the 'meta' idea of having 'Gus' play 'Walter White' 😅
How is the Jedi Master to blame? It’s been a time of peace for centuries. Why would he think that an extinct faction like the Sith would have returned?
Yeah but not against the straw man burning ninja-Magneto. Should have see it comin, I suppose. Not because of the Sith haven't been seen (because why would that now be true before THIS then) but because there were copies of the script all over. It really isn't fair which characters got to read them and which dit no. Well, c'est la vie. :P
hey thor!! i really wanna hear what you would think of an an alternate sequel trilogy about Mace Windu coming back and embracing the dark side hunting the last of the skywalker line (with the force of the criminal underworld at his back) and burying the hatchet with boba fett to both go after han and luke, and maybe a double cross by fett being his downfall. idk just a thought! i think there is a lot of fun play to be had there
@@lsdeann_3293 same reason they yanked Willow off ;-) ( not going to try to explain that here, you can find out why Willow reboot is never to be seen again ) short answer is kinda, "it turns into a tax writeoff then" IIRC
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment. This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar. What do you think?
R2D2 has never had a memory-wipe once in his existence, either, and everyone can tell INSTANTLY that that little bucket of bolts is *chock-full* of personality. Particularly sass.
If you're interested in a Legends book that addresses droid sentience, I highly recommend Children of the Jedi by Barbara Hambly. It spends a fair bit of the book discussing the differences between mechanical and biological life, and imo it's one of if not the best of the New Republic novels. It can be a bit slower because Hambly's books tend to be far more psychological than the others of that era, but it's totally worth it if you've got the time. :)
@@emberfist8347 Enh, I've always felt that if Hambly had been given the chance to write the Callista trilogy in its entirety, Callista wouldn't get NEARLY as much hate as she does now. The ideas were definitely there, and if the second book hadn't been handed to... a certain other author, with QUITE interesting views on the power dynamics in Callista's relationships with the other characters (crying internally...........) and the consequences her actions should have had... Well, let's just say I think she had potential to be an extraordinary character if she had remained in competent hands, lol. I'm pretty fond of her in COTJ--and honestly, everything that happened afterwards was just Hambly trying her best to run damage control after the absolute brutalization of her character in Darksaber. Plus, fondness of Callista notwithstanding, both COTJ and POT are pretty solid Leia character studies, which makes them more than worth investing time in if you have any to spare! Even if POT gets Weird with a capital W at points, LOL...
7:18 I think the answer is in the quesiton honestly. They 'give him a pass' because they did something with Maul, they developed him from a basically silent monster of a man into an interesting character, one of the best in Star Wars.
Just stop watching disney star wars and put HOTD on, episode 4 was top tier, why bother with a company like disney who doesn't care when there are series like HOTD that get everything right from the story, the dialogue, the casting, the sets, the music etc
The time period of HOTD is some what analogous to the end of the good old days perceived or not like the acolyte and the high republic, so HOTD is in some ways what the acolyte should be
For that Maul question, I am totally fine with retcons if it improves the story. And I think it certainly improved the story to have Maul return, not just for his own personal story, but for the story of the Clone Wars as a whole. I feel the same way about bringing Boba Fett back after his initial death in Return of the Jedi. I always felt like his death being done for comedy's sake was a bit of a disservice to his character (especially when we consider what the prequels and clone wars added to his character).
So if someone ends up in a situation where they are under fire from a child soldier with an AK, you think they are to blame because they defend them selfs and shoot back ?.. She might be a kid, but she is armed with a lethal weapon, and trying to kill him just as he is trying to kill them. The black and white idea does not work based on him having one ideology or the other, the reason he is to blame is that he attacks them, not the other way around, that they are jedi and he is sith is not what makes him wrong, and honestly he does not even attack ( tho we all can agree his intent is clear ), but they are the ones who charges at him. My problem with Maul was the way he died initially, from the fastest fighter we have had on screen to suddenly just standing there waiting to die was an epic failure of a way to end that movie, it's on par with the last couple of seasons of GoT as an ending to that story. While i agree on the mortis gods, there is the good chance that while Yoda is wise beyond most, he does not know everything..
"Ends up in a situation" is a bit generous while being on a multi-planetary Jedi killing crusade with the help of a manipulated "youth" of your own. Kinda different than just doing your own thing in your own place, no?
Jecki is ultimately to blame for her death. She is a badass and she knows she's a badass. Although it was Sol's responsibility to reel her in, Jecki is a pretty by-the-book Padawan, and she should've known her place. That being said, Sol sure worked well with her on the battlefield, and I'm positive that they had no idea how strong Quimir really was, especially since it's been so long since any real threat has been posed.
She doesn’t say that at all. She says you can understand where his motives come from but they still aren’t redeemable or acceptable. She literally says what he did was unforgivable. She goes on to say the Jedi bring children into battle, which we’ve seen before. Look at Barriss, Ahsoka, Kanan and Cal. Jecki technically wasn’t a child, she’s 18, but still very much a child to Sol. Qimir killed her but Sol was the one who put her in that dangerous situation by bringing her along. It doesn’t exonerate what Qimir did but it also highlights where the Jedi are in the wrong.
@@franeruyt That's your take? No one's twisting anything. This has nothing to do with dislike for the writer, personally. It's dislike for the writing. Talk about twisting things..
Hey Thor, If I had acquired Star Wars in 2014 I would've immediately went to work putting KOTR to the big screen since the story is already told. This would give me enough content easily for 10 years. That way I could put together a solid plan for when I wanted next to add to Star Wars canon and what it would be, not to mention how it would properly fit in. I do think I would've had stories after the fall of the empire but it wouldn't resemble anything Disney has done with it. What would you do if you had acquired Star Wars? Thank you!
It's almost like she spent part of her past helping a monster hurt people because she wanted to be adjacent to power and success. What happened doesn't matter - she wanted things.
To have a discussion about the Jedi training children and being to blame for a child's death when the child is essentially a child soldier brought into battle, they'd have to - you know - bring a child into battle and kill them. Jecki wasn't a child. She was a child from Sol's perspective of an aged man and his pupil, but she was an adult. It's like when an 18 year old signs up for the army and gets killed in the line of duty and his captain says "Damn it. He was just a kid." The context is a little different because Jecki _was_ raised in the Jedi Order, but it doesn't work for this argument because Jecki _was_ an adult when she got killed. Her age is confirmed to be 18. Now, if we want to discuss whether 18 is an adult for her species, because her species may mature differently... but, no, it's clearly intentional that she is a young adult here. Basically, nothing the Acolyte does... works. And everything the Acolyte attempts to do... it fails at by sabotaging its own arguments.
Sith Lords surviving what would be fatal wounds to anyone else is a long running trope in Star Wars with Vader being the obvious first. Sidious in Dark Empire. Sion and Nihlus in KOTOR2. Malgus gets all sorts of effed up. Vitiate dies several times before it's permanent lol Maul being "brought back from the dead" was in keeping with established Star Wars lore by the time he was brought back.
Weird how the padawan really wasn't shown learning anything during the show...all the other star wars seem to focus on the evolution of the training arc & accepting the role. The Acolyte seems to treat it as if everyone is done learning or if they accept the dark side they are suddenly gaining an instant power boost.
Qimir is the only one to blame for Jecki’s death. He, the one sending Mae out to kill Jedi, is the only reason the Jedi are on the planet, and he in his own words said the Jedi found him/saw him so now they all had to die. His presence, his existence is the reason she died, no one else’s. Lesley Headland is awful, she clearly grew up watching Star Wars through a different lens than the rest of us and took a different message from it.
Jekki is to blame for her demise. She wanted her end to come, and we know this because she is now dead. Had she wanted to live, she would have survived as metal and lasers do not kill Jedi. Thus, Jekki's death is her own responsibility. She also had a bizarre fetish for watching things join the Force, and what could be the ultimate conclusion than to experience the joy of joining the Force herself.
Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir established that the whispy form of quasi-force ghost that Mother Talzin took at the end of the Episode Massacre was because she basically had to sacrifice her own body to make one for Maul. Given this was still the Spider-Maul period, I interpreted it to mean Maul was dead for quite some time and Mother Talzin had to resurrect him.
@@atari1994 I welcome new actors like Manny Jacinto and Amandla Stenberg over Nepobabies. Nepobabies are the ones writing bad stories or lack proper strategy
Thor, how many civilians were on Death Star I? I am guessing 0 as it was a top secret military instillation were all the employees (imperial armed forces) kept it a secret from the galaxy until Alderaans destruction.
At least not true civilians, but non-military government workers. In the same way, at least half the people in the Pentagon are civilian government workers. Oh, and also children...the Pentagon has a childcare center for the parents working there.
@@kirkdarling4120The Pentagon is a bit different. The Death Star is more like a warship out at sea which means everyone on it is part of the Imperial Military. Even if it wasn’t everyone inside would be a legal target due to the laws of war. Only the prisoners the Empire hasn’t executed yet would be civilians but I would say that is a mercy to be painlessly vaporized in an instant versus what the Empire does to prisoners.
Hey Thor what do you think about people who try to justify logical and storytelling problems by saying that SW has always been like that. That those who criticise are way to harsh with the Acolyte while prequels for example had the same amount of problems (like jedi being dumb and ignoring information about Sith that was told by Dooku, that their enemy created an army for them etc.) I have many people who are trying to tell that if I look into the story that Lucas created I'll find just as many flaws, so I shouldn't nitpick so much now, George also broke his canon anyway etc. Greetings from Ukraine!
Hey Thor, Looking back at the old "future projects" announcements from before TLJ its evident that these Disney+ series are the various "planned movies" in some form or another (i imagine with minimal tweaks) Do you think that at this point its too late for star wars to have a roaring come back to the big screen?
Hey Thor, I’d like to piggy back off the question with the Sith being misinterpreted. I believe a good show to tell the audience, “Hey the Sith are horrible people don’t be like them!” Would be a Bane show or movies. In the novels they never show Bane in a good light, there is no sympathy to others besides hesitating to kill Lucia in the final book. He was given a choice to stay with the Gloom Walkers and possibly be executed or become a Sith. He then goes to betray and kill hundreds of his fellow Sith and raise a 10 year old as his apprentice to kill without mercy. He constantly has stuff go wrong, he has to hide in plain sight.He also constantly hurts the ones around him, Calebs daughter, Caleb and the Jedi sent to hunt him down and kill him. Those are my thoughts, Bane is the perfect example of a Sith you shouldn’t feel sorry for unless you count his child hood of being in an abusive household. Anytime after he’s in the army is when you shouldn’t feel sympathy or misunderstand him.
It's unfortunate, how badly Disney can take something good and make it sh!t. Since Disney took over Star wars there has been MAYBE 2 movies and series that are good. #fireKathleenKennedy
hey thor - i tend to agree about not "over-explaining the magic" of the force being the better option in mythological story-telling terms, for star wars. however, because of lucas mentioning midichlorians in the prequels & the whills being referenced by him, i feel a need to know the connections between the three. how much info is there to tie the ideas together for some sort of understanding? and would you ever want to tackle the story yourself, considering disney doesn't seem to want that part of lucas' ideas explored? the hidden destiny was really fun.(my name is pronounced dizz-eck)
I don't think a show from the Sith perspective where they're just constantly showing how nothing goes right for them works. At least, it would be difficult to pull off without making them look like an idiot. It would have to show things going their way but ultimate ending in their downfall, otherwise it wouldn't be a very long or compelling story. Like, if you tell Palpatine's story, I'm sure he's not constantly frustrated by losing everything. It's pretty much constant wins until his ultimate end. I think, in their eyes, there absolutely is plenty of redeeming qualities to being a Sith, but it requires being an absolutely evil bastard and the way the show would have to portray that to the viewer would be by showing the misery they cause for everyone else affected by their actions. To prevent it from being a slog for the viewer through a psychopath's enjoyment in misery and death, it would likely give them temporary redeeming qualities in fighting against someone that's presented as even more powerful and even more evil, then maybe subvert any notions of the audience rooting for them by having them do their most repugnant actions after defeating that power, as if to tell the audience that they shouldn't have been rooting for this person because this was always the path that they were on. I do think a show from "the bad guy" perspective could be fantastic, though. Sort of a Breaking Bad in Star Wars. A Sith sho could be cool, but it would be a despicable person that we enjoy watching. Or a show just from an Imperial's perspective without making them personally outright evil (which the Sith _would_ be) could be cool. We get a bit of that in Andor and I've always thought that Rogue One would've been a much better and more interesting movie if the whole thing had been from Krennic's focus of having to deal with these insurgent terrorists. As-is, we get a bit of his perspective as this kind of middle manager in the Empire just trying to do his job and getting screwed over at almost every turn.
I was definitely one of those people who thought it was ridiculous that they were bringing Maul back after seeing him die in Episode 1. Also being someone who still hasn't gotten into The Clone Wars and Rebels, I still see it as being pretty ridiculous lol. I like how The Force Unleashed handled his "return".
14:31 Most of the studies ChatGPT linked show it's pretty close in terms of who "watches" and reads things like sci-fi, fantasy, and comics. The gap forms when it comes to who actually spends money in these genres, and it's overwhelmingly men. We are kind of being taken advantage of while Disney tries-and fails-to experiment to increase the female presence because they believe we (men) will show up no matter what.
so I take it that Jecki was like Kenobi in Phantom Menace pretty much done being a Padawan but has not past her trials to knight hood. If you look at the scene earlier she is leading that class she is front and center I take that as the most experienced in the class much like any martial arts class.. who killed her Lesbian Headlamp did no one else... but dog shit is dog shit
Regarding female representation in science fiction, I agree, based on being a female who grew up on scifi, that a good story is what counts and will get and keep female viewers. Is the science plausible? Are the ships cool? Are the characters relatable and engaging? (And are the male characters good looking? lol). I might be only speaking for myself, but there's a romanticism that comes from watching dashing leading men. It sparks the imagination, and probably leads to bad fan fiction. hehe
21:54 If you ever want to understand the Jedi or have a better understanding of what the philosophy would look like in the real world read up on stoicism.
On the one hand, they probably shouldn't have brought a padawan on a mission they thought needed like 10 jedi knights (as seen when nobody else broguth theirs, Hell we've not even seen Yord's since episode one), but on the other, they were there for Mae, someone with potentially negative IQ points, so sure bring the child along, she can watch her get jumped like she's in an anime XD
Yep, I’m done with the Disney version of Star Wars for no reason other than the content is poorly written, directed and shot (it even looks cheesy). The acting is fine considering what awful dialogue and characters they are given. If I give SW another shot, it will be in movie form only. And thank god those are staggered over years. I kinda feel bad for Thor. He can’t stop loving something that will never love him back.
Repeat after me.. the Jedi are not perfect but they are undeniably the good guys. Also on Maul, I think it would have been better if it had been his brother instead, but do give it a bit of a pass because it was handled well.
Hey thor, I've always hated the idea of the Bendu from Rebels. He seems like a shoehorn neutrality is good stance, and i just dont like the idea. How do you feel about bendu?
Me personally he feels like a deconstruction of that stance as he sits on his ass even when the Empire is on his doorstep and then attacks both sides indiscriminately. I find it another example of you can’t be neutral during a war.
@@presidentmillardfillmore1329he's pleasant and helpful, but ultimately he's impotent. He takes no action or responsibility. He's like the Ents from Lord of the Rings - if they refused to help in the fight against Saruman.
(im writing this before watching as i don't wish to be biased or swayed before i answer this myself) Qimir is to blame for Jecki's death. he literally ran his blade through her...not once, not twice, but 3 times XD. but yeah Sol BROUGHT Jecki because she was his padawan. they also had a team of a dozen or so jedi (im assuming knights with maybe some masters). Yord left his padawan behind (who i think should have just been another jedi that was knighted the same time as yord. he didnt need to have a padawan...especially one who led more than yord did in ep 1) and im guessing theyre gonna use that as an example of how Sol messed up. Qimir slaughtered the jedi (and not just the men...). He sent Mae to kill Trinity, Tommen, and now kelnacca (the jedi think it was mae) he then floated down and immediately took out 4 jedi; but then struggled with the padawan? it made it look like Sol was a decent master....WHO THEN JUST STOOD THERE AND WATCHED HER DIE. i dont think it was Sol's fault..but the writers and editing make him look like he just pulled a palpy as he stepped back into the shadow and watched as his padawan got impaled
No identical twin ever looks the same after 10 years. Experience and scars from life change people. Tattoos exempt if Sol didn't know his apprentice then he never did let alone jedi can recognize another force wielder or does the original trilogy mean nothing?
I think Leslie is totally wrong on this. It doesn't make Qi'Mir more sympathetic. He is a killer and his actions don't need to be justified. I will agree with the fact that the Jedi bringing children into their order is slightly off putting. Sol did put Jecki into harms way. Sol may not have known the great danger that existed, but he did place her in danger.
The dude who stabbed her I guess.
No way man, that was his oppression and victimised status manifesting in righteous child murder
Whaaaa-aaaat?!
This the funniest comment. It weird when writers try to be deep and see a writer who actually know what doing. The contrast.
RUclipsBot deleting my comments again, hunting me down like some kind of laser guided satellite space cannon.
But he's a freedom loving good guy. He was just defending himself from those child soldier dirty corrupt cops.
Or something like that.
"he just wants freedom guys!"
Yeah, so did Mussolini, Stalin, Hitler. All they wanted was the freedom to do whatever they wanted with no discipline or repercussions.
We call that wanting power.
2:09 - 2:30 "It is completely asinine and evil to suggest that someone's desire for freedom is greater than someone's right to live."
I couldn't find the words at the time, but this is exactly what was in my mind the day I heard that this was her defense. You can defend your art as much as you like, but if you need to say it has the privilege of claiming that destroying other people to fill your own needs is justified outside of self-defense, then all you're doing is revealing who the dangerous one really is.
Some say green lady can't be the villain because that would be too obvious, and yet, Qimir turned out to be Smilo Ren.
"Who is really to blame for Jecki's death in "The Acolyte"?" Leslie is to blame for writing Jecki into the scene.
Her task was to apprehend Mae, not fight an OP Sith. She’s a well trained Padawan who understood the dangers. It’s not Sol’s fault she girlbossed too close to the Sun.
She girl bossed to close to the sun lol
Very True, but The Jedi had Qimir dead to rights and Sol let him go to surveil him. I guess, in that sense, he is accountable through his actions. I still think risked so much by consciously confronting the Jedi and is just as belligerent, if not more so . He's pretty lucky tbh, he choose an 9 on 1 fight that should have been 10 on 1 if Mae had any sense of self preservation.
@@JKMlive It's not even their line lol He's just ripped off ItsAGundam.
@@Blisterdude123 its still funny tho love itsAGundam lol
Yes.
In peacetime it wouldnt be crazy to bring them on (presumably) just diplomatic missions or investigations. The force empowers Jedi Iniciates. The jedi's practices are not comparable to the Spartans', though superficially similar. Until the clone wars, we can criticize that.
"Youth is a matter of perspective. Jedi are trained from a young age to do things they think they can not."
~ Jedi Conselor, SWTOR
There is a passage in the Revenge of the Sith novelization from the point of view of Count Dooku in chapter 2 where it applies all the core tenets of the sith to all the aspects of his life and worldview. I think its a very interesting segment because it truly shows how his selfishness has brought him to a point where he doesn't see other beings as even beings, merely "abstractions" that fit into two categories: assets (tools to be used to further his own interests) and threats.
There was no way, in my opinion, we weren’t going to get Sith designed for people to sympathize with. We’ve had shows about good vampires, werewolves, serial killers, and just about every other evil thing.
Disney are particularly guilty of this in the last decade. Not only have they not been able to create a straight villain for any of their properties in that time (with the sole exception of the High Evolutionary in GotG3, but I feel like James Gunn was sort of grandfathered in as an actually competent storyteller), but they have been taking iconic villains from their own canon and retroactively turning them into sympathetic anti-heroes (see: Maleficent, Cruella, Captain Hook, etc).
I mean, for Pete’s sake, Maleficent’s motivation and attitude are quite incontrovertibly clear from her NAME. She is unequivocally and unapologetically EVIL.
Because women on a biological level are inherently attracted to the “bad boy.”
The funniest thing about the Maleficent movie is that she was always called Maleficent and it was not a new name she embraced after she was wronged and started down a villainous path. You would think the makers of the film would realize that, if they wanted to make Maleficent a sympathetic character, they should probably should avoid implying she was essentially named “Evil” from birth. But, they assume their audience is stupid.
Thor's take at 18:54 is exactly what I want from Star Wars and perfectly encapsulates my feelings. I don't want to understand the mystery of the Force.
"But if you just look past all the murders, abduction, and indoctrination of a minor into killing, he's totally sympathetic because he talks about freedom. It's all the Jedi's fault for being stabbed in the first place."
A "professional" writer actually said that.
Indoctrination of a minor. You mean like the Jedi always do, right?
Sad
@@ThespianPrince13 jedi give minors a choice. The sith don't
@@dragonshiny7321 A choice they're far too young to make.
the Jedi indoctrinate, so they arent exactly innocent there, however they do have a proper reason, that being due to the childs deeper connection with the force they may fall down a very bad path if they figure it out on their own and proceed to use it for nefarious purposes.
its not a good reason, but its a valid one. On the other hand a padawan/jedi is free to leave the order if they so desire, the council may try to convince them not to, but they wont stop them (ahsoka is a prime example of this, though she was basically forced to). a Sith apprentice/acolyte doesnt really get that choice, at least not easily, the master will pretty much do everything in their power to kill this person in order to keep the sith secret
Qimir was just exercising his freedom to wildly swing his red lightsabers all around… it’s not his fault if six Jedi decided to get in the way of his swinging. they shouldn’t have been there in the first place.
Exactly, it’s the same as that cake that was in the way of Homer opening and closing his mouth. He can’t be blamed! #Freedom #SithAreNotEvil
Jecki just ran his lightsaber three times honest.
Technically speaking, had Sol not acted on impulse "saving Osha" and had the Jedi not just done what he did, namely attack - 8 Jedi versus a guy - who knows if there had even been a battle and massacre.
21:37
"It is not the destination that matters - it is the journey." - Kreia, KOTOR II
I don't know if I agree that the Sith will always cause misery to themselves ultimately. Palpatine seemed to be having a grand ol time until the unfortunate incident with the reactor shaft.
He was bored though. He didn’t like having to run the galaxy and the rebellion didn’t help.
@@emberfist8347 If only boredom was my biggest problem...
The Acolyte is the gift that keeps on giving itself to RUclipsrs !
So why are people still mad it exists? Clearly you're having fun even of you hate it. It reminds me of all the boys who shat on twilight but kept watching the sequels. You secretly enjoy it
@@suzygirl1843your comment is ignorant ngl. The fan base is passionate so seeing a show of such low quality be called star wars is a slap in the face and the fans are rightfully voicing that disappointment. No one "secretly" likes it you just sound like you're projecting at that point
in star wars, if you want to survive/escape, just fall down a shaft (maul, luke, palps)
Also Boba Fett.
@@saphica2887 10/10. Yep! Now if Han and Mace reappear, we are definitely on to something.
3:47 I just love how you utterly destroy leslie headland 😂
She’s blatantly telling us the viewers to accept evil and reject good. Strange times we’re living in.
I mean... those arms and that hair. He's Asian Robert Pattinson... quite mesmerizing for teenage girls.
@suzygirl1843 yeah, and those teenage girls will probably be the ones who end up early moms
“Who is the Blame for Jecki death?” The one who killed her.
A character being brought back to life for the 1st time is completely different then doing it the 10th time
What about Boba Fett though..?
@@taffysaur what about him?
Unless it's a curse. Or they just wish to live forever.
Casting couch oooooo shots fired
James Gunn?
@suzygirl1843 no Leslie Hedland used to be harvey weinstein's personal assistant
@@jcrazy9008 that'd Hollywood in a nutshell, though. At least James Gunn is talented. But most are perverts
Thank you for putting clearer and better words than I can ever put together about how I feel on the Force and the "force gods" from that horrendous filoni arc. Often I feel I'm too passionate expressing how I disklike something in a universe I love and people feel it as hate.
I think the reason Vernestra is prominently featured in the show is simply because Headline want to set her wife up as a prominent figure in this era of Star Wars so she can be showhorned into other SW projects in the future, lol😂
The Acolyte leans on convenience as a story device far too much.
This has already being discussed in the EU. I remember reading a comic when I was a kid about a Sith arguing he wanted to be " free", but for a Sith being free means doing whatever the hell they want even if they hurt others.
That thing about "freedom", isn't the guy free already? Which Jedi is holding him?
Freedom from consequences and responsibility to others. Freedom from constraint by your place in a community, a thriving, healthy society. Freedom to be entirely selfish, to do as you please and damn to your fellow man, woman, or anything inbetween.
Sociopaths, everywhere.
I think the implication is that he views the Jedi as oppressors. Which to a sith and even to some societies they are. So to be free, he wants the jedi to stop their oppression.
though I shouldnt have to theorize this based on him simply stating he wants freedom... there's not really any clear signs of the jedi being that authoritative
Maybe they'll present some psychological origin from which this is the consequence.
But he just went there and killed, so, what else?
I mean, we have no other things to connect.
Yeah, I know, the obvious writing flaws.
The thing is, we can't go deeper, because there's nothing, and from what's shown...he's free.
@@fusionwing4208 I wonder if Leslie has seen Easy Rider, which has this little piece if dialogue:
Billy : What the hell is wrong with freedom? That's what it's all about.
George Hanson : Oh, yeah, that's right. That's what's it's all about, all right. But talkin' about it and bein' it, that's two different thangs. I mean, it's real hard to be free when you are bought and sold in the marketplace. Of course, don't ever tell anybody that they're not free, 'cause then they're gonna get real busy killin' and maimin' to prove to you that they are. Oh, yeah, they're gonna talk to you, and talk to you, and talk to you about individual freedom. But they see a free individual, it's gonna scare 'em.
Billy : Well, it don't make 'em runnin' scared.
George Hanson : No, it makes 'em dangerous. Buhhhh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Neh! Swamp
Qimir's Parents ... clearly he needed more Hugs and he wouldn't have turned to the Dark Side, JK. FYI the Dahmer line is brilliant keep up the great work
It reminds me of the joke that Hitler isn’t so bad because he killed Hitler.
I still honestly think bringing Maul back was a mistake and set a bad precedent for Star Wars. Instead of bringing him back, they should have had an adventure type series focused on him and his secret missions. 2 birds with 1 stone: Getting more Darth Maul, AND getting that Sith focused series we all want.
The two persons mainly responsible:
The person who actually kills her. It was his choice to do that.
And she herself. She as a Padawan is well enough trained and smart enough to know it might be a bad idea to fight someone who just killed several jedi 1on1. But she still does that.
Trying to put all or alot of the blame on anyone else is plain stupid in my opinion.
And someone who trys to tell us he who killed a young girl (even though she was a Jedi Padawan) is rightfully doing so is just evil in my book.
They want to make their Katniss Everdeen, but they don't want to go through the legwork of establishing their Katniss like establishing she was a hunter showing how often she failed etc.
Hey Thor, don't the existence of shows like House of the Dragon make watching ones like the Acolyte a complete waste of time?
your basically asking that because a show of a completely different genre and premise exists, this one isnt worth watching. thats not really a good reason to give for why we shouldnt watch Acolyte.
I don't really care for the game of thrones franchise, but I do care a lot about starwars. So i'd be more likely to watch The Acolyte over House of the Dragon, and that has nothing to do with the fact one show is by far inferior (I have heard tons of good things about house of the dragon)
I do think that one (HOTD) is markedly better than the other (Acolyte), in terms of sets, costuming, casting, acting, soundtracking, action, dialogue, hidden meanings and philosophising etc. etc.
I recommended Andor to multiple GOT fans and for the most part they liked it. In terms of tone, pacing, maturity levels, etc., Andor would be a better show to use for a fair comparison.
This 'Thunderous Ramble' was maybe the best one yet. I really like the discussion on the last question about attachments.
-loved the casting couch reference.
Maul could survive because of his "alien" body, had he been human, there's no way it could have worked imho.
its explained that Maul survived purely due to his hatred, he essentially used the dark side of the force to survive long enough to eventually fuse his bottom half with that mechanical spider thing we see him on in clone wars.
the dark side of the force is extremely powerful in that regard... I am certain a human could do the same if they mustered up enough hatred for the dark side to do so (I would argue Anakin did this technically, because the burns he sustained from being literally lit on fire should have definitely killed him)
The Dark Side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural
(but really Maul surviving is started the trivializing of death in Star Wars)
@@fusionwing4208I agree; I always viewed Maul's survival as a "local Sith literally too angry to die" kinda situation. Man's was obsessed with killing Kenobi, and given the way he behaved when we first met him again in Clone Wars, I saw it as a case of him giving in to the Dark Side so much that it warped his psyche; think of it like a person being so addicted to drugs (and getting revenge) that their body literally cannot function without drugs - every other aspect of their life has eroded to dust but they're still alive enough to get their revenge. The Dark Side is just THAT powerful if you're THAT far off the deep end. In the grand scheme of things, EVEN IF Maul's return had happened sometime during Disney SW, I believe his return would be the most believable and make the most sense. Still is to this day...
@@petalpencil1397 I think the important part is that there aren't that many characters of the dark side that can even do that. The other one that comes to mind is Darth Sion.
I won't say his survival is unlikely and has issues on it's own, I will agree with people who give it a pass because of what they did with him. They didn' destroy anything he was before, and just added later, creating a memorable character.
So if Disney would have people survive wounds they should not because they have a GREAT storyline and character arc - then more people would be okay with it in my opinion. It would also help if it wouldn't happen that often to be honest, keep it rare. In the end, alot of situations where they survived these wounds weren't exactly mandatory in the first place.
No alien can survive, regardless if you are Force-sensitive or not. Maul stays dead in the Prequels and EU (the Clone Wars version, minus the comic, which is non-canon anyway), so that argument is moot.
I for one wouldn't mind seeing a 'Star Wars does Breaking Bad' series, where we show a force sensitive person initially training in the Light Side, but for various reasons is drawn more and more to the Dark Side.
I even have an idea who that could be: Moff Gideon.....or at least one of the supposed force sensitive clones he made of himself. Maybe one escaped with no memory of who he is, and is trying to get ahold of these abilities he has, with virtually no one out there to train him (except Luke, who he may be wary of).
There is also the 'meta' idea of having 'Gus' play 'Walter White' 😅
How is the Jedi Master to blame? It’s been a time of peace for centuries. Why would he think that an extinct faction like the Sith would have returned?
When in Star Wars they ever cared about age limits? Padmé was a child queen, Anakin was a child podracer, Ahsoka was a child general.
Ahsoka was a commander.
I believe what you said about the Jedi order is valid. Unfortunately, the standards expected by the other is difficult for us mear mortals.
Even Jedi padawan should have been ready to battle.
Yeah but not against the straw man burning ninja-Magneto. Should have see it comin, I suppose. Not because of the Sith haven't been seen (because why would that now be true before THIS then) but because there were copies of the script all over. It really isn't fair which characters got to read them and which dit no. Well, c'est la vie. :P
hey thor!!
i really wanna hear what you would think of an an alternate sequel trilogy about Mace Windu coming back and embracing the dark side hunting the last of the skywalker line (with the force of the criminal underworld at his back) and burying the hatchet with boba fett to both go after han and luke, and maybe a double cross by fett being his downfall. idk just a thought! i think there is a lot of fun play to be had there
Hedland is full of darkness.
It couldn't be Sol because we see him reacting after she is toasted. It must be Qimir.
The whip scar on Qimir's back points to his master being Vernestra...This show isn't that good with it's 'mysteries'.
Could theoretically be force lightning too. The scarring looks a lot like a real life lightning scar. But then again that would be too smart.
headland is completely out of her mind. this is crazy. 50% chance this show gets pulled off d+ at this point.
Well Weinstein 'ACOLYTE' Lesley Headland was his Personal assistant and was influenced by his standards in HORRORWOOD.
Why would they remove it from Disney+?
@@lsdeann_3293 same reason they yanked Willow off ;-) ( not going to try to explain that here, you can find out why Willow reboot is never to be seen again ) short answer is kinda, "it turns into a tax writeoff then" IIRC
Hey Thor, I've been wondering about droid sentience lately and why Star Wars rarely takes it seriously. I even think that people applauding clone sentience and individuality is a bit of a double standard when those same people dismiss droids as merely extensions of their creators. Even though Rex famously denies this, the fact is that clones are programmed to obey orders without question and are manufactured. Most clones only have limited independent thinking and a clone being able to live outside a military is incredibly rare. The only reason they develop individuality is because of experience. But the funny thing is, droids develop individuality for the same reason. The only difference is that droids regularly have their memories wiped specifically to prevent them from developing individuality and potentially rebelling. There's a moment in Heir to the Empire where Luke is asked why he has never wiped C-3PO's memories in all the years he's known him, and Luke reveals that he's uncomfortable with the idea of stripping his friend of individuality. And I don't know if you have played KOTOR 2 yet, but there's a mission where HK-47 argues with HK-50, who dismisses him as obsolete. But HK-47 argues that he is superior because he has developed individuality and has given himself a higher purpose and meaning because he has never had his mind wiped. These examples show that droid sentience should not be played for laughs so much in the franchise. In fact, I think the galaxy is overdue for a galaxy-wide droid revolution just to show people that sentient droids deserve equal treatment.
This is actually addressed in the Star Trek: The Next Generation episode "Measure of a Man" where Lt. Data's rights are debated because he's an android and I wish Star Wars had something similar.
What do you think?
R2D2 has never had a memory-wipe once in his existence, either, and everyone can tell INSTANTLY that that little bucket of bolts is *chock-full* of personality. Particularly sass.
Droid sentience has been addressed for a very long time.
If you're interested in a Legends book that addresses droid sentience, I highly recommend Children of the Jedi by Barbara Hambly. It spends a fair bit of the book discussing the differences between mechanical and biological life, and imo it's one of if not the best of the New Republic novels. It can be a bit slower because Hambly's books tend to be far more psychological than the others of that era, but it's totally worth it if you've got the time. :)
@@janambd711 I have to disagree there that book introduced Castilla one of the most unpopular characters in the EU.
@@emberfist8347 Enh, I've always felt that if Hambly had been given the chance to write the Callista trilogy in its entirety, Callista wouldn't get NEARLY as much hate as she does now. The ideas were definitely there, and if the second book hadn't been handed to... a certain other author, with QUITE interesting views on the power dynamics in Callista's relationships with the other characters (crying internally...........) and the consequences her actions should have had... Well, let's just say I think she had potential to be an extraordinary character if she had remained in competent hands, lol. I'm pretty fond of her in COTJ--and honestly, everything that happened afterwards was just Hambly trying her best to run damage control after the absolute brutalization of her character in Darksaber. Plus, fondness of Callista notwithstanding, both COTJ and POT are pretty solid Leia character studies, which makes them more than worth investing time in if you have any to spare! Even if POT gets Weird with a capital W at points, LOL...
7:18 I think the answer is in the quesiton honestly. They 'give him a pass' because they did something with Maul, they developed him from a basically silent monster of a man into an interesting character, one of the best in Star Wars.
Just stop watching disney star wars and put HOTD on, episode 4 was top tier, why bother with a company like disney who doesn't care when there are series like HOTD that get everything right from the story, the dialogue, the casting, the sets, the music etc
HBO puts Disney to the definition of shame
@@ParanormalMetalMan except with the last seasons of GOT they didn't 🤣🤣🤣
Andor makes some of it worth it
The time period of HOTD is some what analogous to the end of the good old days perceived or not like the acolyte and the high republic, so HOTD is in some ways what the acolyte should be
@@proevoisace7that says more about you than it does about Andor
For that Maul question, I am totally fine with retcons if it improves the story. And I think it certainly improved the story to have Maul return, not just for his own personal story, but for the story of the Clone Wars as a whole. I feel the same way about bringing Boba Fett back after his initial death in Return of the Jedi. I always felt like his death being done for comedy's sake was a bit of a disservice to his character (especially when we consider what the prequels and clone wars added to his character).
The dark side witch coven should be showing a detrimental distorting effect in the forest around the witch's coven.
The lunatic who stabbed her. Its not that deep.
So if someone ends up in a situation where they are under fire from a child soldier with an AK, you think they are to blame because they defend them selfs and shoot back ?.. She might be a kid, but she is armed with a lethal weapon, and trying to kill him just as he is trying to kill them.
The black and white idea does not work based on him having one ideology or the other, the reason he is to blame is that he attacks them, not the other way around, that they are jedi and he is sith is not what makes him wrong, and honestly he does not even attack ( tho we all can agree his intent is clear ), but they are the ones who charges at him.
My problem with Maul was the way he died initially, from the fastest fighter we have had on screen to suddenly just standing there waiting to die was an epic failure of a way to end that movie, it's on par with the last couple of seasons of GoT as an ending to that story.
While i agree on the mortis gods, there is the good chance that while Yoda is wise beyond most, he does not know everything..
"Ends up in a situation" is a bit generous while being on a multi-planetary Jedi killing crusade with the help of a manipulated "youth" of your own. Kinda different than just doing your own thing in your own place, no?
But we didn't see who attacked first.
Jecki is ultimately to blame for her death. She is a badass and she knows she's a badass. Although it was Sol's responsibility to reel her in, Jecki is a pretty by-the-book Padawan, and she should've known her place. That being said, Sol sure worked well with her on the battlefield, and I'm positive that they had no idea how strong Quimir really was, especially since it's been so long since any real threat has been posed.
3:38 Unfortunately Thor, yes, Headland really is trying to say that we should sympathize with Qimir and see the Jedi as the bad guys.
I watched the interview too. To no one's surprised she revealed that she has no idea what she's talking about lol.
Remember earlier in the show when the child brainwashing cult of evil dark side witches were railing against the 'persecution' of the Jedi too?
She doesn’t say that at all. She says you can understand where his motives come from but they still aren’t redeemable or acceptable. She literally says what he did was unforgivable. She goes on to say the Jedi bring children into battle, which we’ve seen before. Look at Barriss, Ahsoka, Kanan and Cal. Jecki technically wasn’t a child, she’s 18, but still very much a child to Sol. Qimir killed her but Sol was the one who put her in that dangerous situation by bringing her along. It doesn’t exonerate what Qimir did but it also highlights where the Jedi are in the wrong.
@@Lilac-and-Gooseberries It’s frustrating when people use their dislike for a person to twist what they actually said. It’s so disingenuous.
@@franeruyt That's your take? No one's twisting anything. This has nothing to do with dislike for the writer, personally. It's dislike for the writing. Talk about twisting things..
8:29 to be fair, he came back in legends
Hey Thor,
If I had acquired Star Wars in 2014 I would've immediately went to work putting KOTR to the big screen since the story is already told. This would give me enough content easily for 10 years. That way I could put together a solid plan for when I wanted next to add to Star Wars canon and what it would be, not to mention how it would properly fit in. I do think I would've had stories after the fall of the empire but it wouldn't resemble anything Disney has done with it. What would you do if you had acquired Star Wars?
Thank you!
The last one almost made me shed a tear.
It's almost like she spent part of her past helping a monster hurt people because she wanted to be adjacent to power and success. What happened doesn't matter - she wanted things.
To have a discussion about the Jedi training children and being to blame for a child's death when the child is essentially a child soldier brought into battle, they'd have to - you know - bring a child into battle and kill them. Jecki wasn't a child. She was a child from Sol's perspective of an aged man and his pupil, but she was an adult. It's like when an 18 year old signs up for the army and gets killed in the line of duty and his captain says "Damn it. He was just a kid." The context is a little different because Jecki _was_ raised in the Jedi Order, but it doesn't work for this argument because Jecki _was_ an adult when she got killed. Her age is confirmed to be 18. Now, if we want to discuss whether 18 is an adult for her species, because her species may mature differently... but, no, it's clearly intentional that she is a young adult here.
Basically, nothing the Acolyte does... works. And everything the Acolyte attempts to do... it fails at by sabotaging its own arguments.
Sympathy for Devil is what Hellyweird wants, they follow Alister Crowley, the self proclaimed wickedest man who pushed “Do What Thou Wilt.”
Sith Lords surviving what would be fatal wounds to anyone else is a long running trope in Star Wars with Vader being the obvious first.
Sidious in Dark Empire. Sion and Nihlus in KOTOR2. Malgus gets all sorts of effed up. Vitiate dies several times before it's permanent lol
Maul being "brought back from the dead" was in keeping with established Star Wars lore by the time he was brought back.
Weird how the padawan really wasn't shown learning anything during the show...all the other star wars seem to focus on the evolution of the training arc & accepting the role. The Acolyte seems to treat it as if everyone is done learning or if they accept the dark side they are suddenly gaining an instant power boost.
Qimir is the only one to blame for Jecki’s death. He, the one sending Mae out to kill Jedi, is the only reason the Jedi are on the planet, and he in his own words said the Jedi found him/saw him so now they all had to die. His presence, his existence is the reason she died, no one else’s. Lesley Headland is awful, she clearly grew up watching Star Wars through a different lens than the rest of us and took a different message from it.
Personally I think that KOTOR 2 was the absolute perfect showing of the miserableness of being a Sith but that's just me.
Jekki is to blame for her demise. She wanted her end to come, and we know this because she is now dead. Had she wanted to live, she would have survived as metal and lasers do not kill Jedi. Thus, Jekki's death is her own responsibility. She also had a bizarre fetish for watching things join the Force, and what could be the ultimate conclusion than to experience the joy of joining the Force herself.
As for a Sith story...it has already been done. Al Pacino's Scarface seems to fit the path and end quite nicely. 🙂
You sign up, go through training, and go out into the field. Short of being fragged, sh*t happens.
Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir established that the whispy form of quasi-force ghost that Mother Talzin took at the end of the Episode Massacre was because she basically had to sacrifice her own body to make one for Maul. Given this was still the Spider-Maul period, I interpreted it to mean Maul was dead for quite some time and Mother Talzin had to resurrect him.
Naboo cursed her luck with song!
I still think Vanestra will have something big to do... why? Nepotism.
What about James Gunn? He made his brother play Guardians of the Galaxy and cast him to play Maxwell Lord in Superman. Double standard much?
@@suzygirl1843 lol nice try yes … yes it is nepotism
@@atari1994 I welcome new actors like Manny Jacinto and Amandla Stenberg over Nepobabies. Nepobabies are the ones writing bad stories or lack proper strategy
@@suzygirl1843 manny is good… unfortunately Amadala has the same facial expression the whole show
She animated more during her instagram post
Thor, how many civilians were on Death Star I?
I am guessing 0 as it was a top secret military instillation were all the employees (imperial armed forces) kept it a secret from the galaxy until Alderaans destruction.
At least not true civilians, but non-military government workers. In the same way, at least half the people in the Pentagon are civilian government workers. Oh, and also children...the Pentagon has a childcare center for the parents working there.
@@kirkdarling4120The Pentagon is a bit different. The Death Star is more like a warship out at sea which means everyone on it is part of the Imperial Military. Even if it wasn’t everyone inside would be a legal target due to the laws of war. Only the prisoners the Empire hasn’t executed yet would be civilians but I would say that is a mercy to be painlessly vaporized in an instant versus what the Empire does to prisoners.
Hey Thor what do you think about people who try to justify logical and storytelling problems by saying that SW has always been like that. That those who criticise are way to harsh with the Acolyte while prequels for example had the same amount of problems (like jedi being dumb and ignoring information about Sith that was told by Dooku, that their enemy created an army for them etc.) I have many people who are trying to tell that if I look into the story that Lucas created I'll find just as many flaws, so I shouldn't nitpick so much now, George also broke his canon anyway etc. Greetings from Ukraine!
Hey Thor,
Looking back at the old "future projects" announcements from before TLJ its evident that these Disney+ series are the various "planned movies" in some form or another (i imagine with minimal tweaks)
Do you think that at this point its too late for star wars to have a roaring come back to the big screen?
To be fair Jedi do bring a lot of their padowans in dangerous situations, so it is their fault, but everything els I agree with
Hopefully you do watch the interview. She compared Kamir to the rebels, which you were using as a point of contrast
Hey Thor, I’d like to piggy back off the question with the Sith being misinterpreted. I believe a good show to tell the audience, “Hey the Sith are horrible people don’t be like them!” Would be a Bane show or movies. In the novels they never show Bane in a good light, there is no sympathy to others besides hesitating to kill Lucia in the final book. He was given a choice to stay with the Gloom Walkers and possibly be executed or become a Sith.
He then goes to betray and kill hundreds of his fellow Sith and raise a 10 year old as his apprentice to kill without mercy.
He constantly has stuff go wrong, he has to hide in plain sight.He also constantly hurts the ones around him, Calebs daughter, Caleb and the Jedi sent to hunt him down and kill him. Those are my thoughts, Bane is the perfect example of a Sith you shouldn’t feel sorry for unless you count his child hood of being in an abusive household. Anytime after he’s in the army is when you shouldn’t feel sympathy or misunderstand him.
Hey Thor,
I'd love to see you and Allan from Generation Tech debate on this series & Disney's SW.
It's unfortunate, how badly Disney can take something good and make it sh!t. Since Disney took over Star wars there has been MAYBE 2 movies and series that are good. #fireKathleenKennedy
hey thor - i tend to agree about not "over-explaining the magic" of the force being the better option in mythological story-telling terms, for star wars. however, because of lucas mentioning midichlorians in the prequels & the whills being referenced by him, i feel a need to know the connections between the three. how much info is there to tie the ideas together for some sort of understanding? and would you ever want to tackle the story yourself, considering disney doesn't seem to want that part of lucas' ideas explored? the hidden destiny was really fun.(my name is pronounced dizz-eck)
I don't think a show from the Sith perspective where they're just constantly showing how nothing goes right for them works. At least, it would be difficult to pull off without making them look like an idiot. It would have to show things going their way but ultimate ending in their downfall, otherwise it wouldn't be a very long or compelling story. Like, if you tell Palpatine's story, I'm sure he's not constantly frustrated by losing everything. It's pretty much constant wins until his ultimate end. I think, in their eyes, there absolutely is plenty of redeeming qualities to being a Sith, but it requires being an absolutely evil bastard and the way the show would have to portray that to the viewer would be by showing the misery they cause for everyone else affected by their actions. To prevent it from being a slog for the viewer through a psychopath's enjoyment in misery and death, it would likely give them temporary redeeming qualities in fighting against someone that's presented as even more powerful and even more evil, then maybe subvert any notions of the audience rooting for them by having them do their most repugnant actions after defeating that power, as if to tell the audience that they shouldn't have been rooting for this person because this was always the path that they were on.
I do think a show from "the bad guy" perspective could be fantastic, though. Sort of a Breaking Bad in Star Wars. A Sith sho could be cool, but it would be a despicable person that we enjoy watching. Or a show just from an Imperial's perspective without making them personally outright evil (which the Sith _would_ be) could be cool. We get a bit of that in Andor and I've always thought that Rogue One would've been a much better and more interesting movie if the whole thing had been from Krennic's focus of having to deal with these insurgent terrorists. As-is, we get a bit of his perspective as this kind of middle manager in the Empire just trying to do his job and getting screwed over at almost every turn.
Seriously? It's Kathleen Kennedy and Leslye's fault. I thought that was pretty obvious.
I was definitely one of those people who thought it was ridiculous that they were bringing Maul back after seeing him die in Episode 1. Also being someone who still hasn't gotten into The Clone Wars and Rebels, I still see it as being pretty ridiculous lol.
I like how The Force Unleashed handled his "return".
14:31 Most of the studies ChatGPT linked show it's pretty close in terms of who "watches" and reads things like sci-fi, fantasy, and comics. The gap forms when it comes to who actually spends money in these genres, and it's overwhelmingly men. We are kind of being taken advantage of while Disney tries-and fails-to experiment to increase the female presence because they believe we (men) will show up no matter what.
so I take it that Jecki was like Kenobi in Phantom Menace pretty much done being a Padawan but has not past her trials to knight hood. If you look at the scene earlier she is leading that class she is front and center I take that as the most experienced in the class much like any martial arts class.. who killed her Lesbian Headlamp did no one else... but dog shit is dog shit
Regarding female representation in science fiction, I agree, based on being a female who grew up on scifi, that a good story is what counts and will get and keep female viewers. Is the science plausible? Are the ships cool? Are the characters relatable and engaging? (And are the male characters good looking? lol). I might be only speaking for myself, but there's a romanticism that comes from watching dashing leading men. It sparks the imagination, and probably leads to bad fan fiction. hehe
As for the Acolyte I am still meh on it, even with 2 episodes left. I do love your discussions and breakdowns.
8:49 I couldn't have said it better myself
21:54 If you ever want to understand the Jedi or have a better understanding of what the philosophy would look like in the real world read up on stoicism.
I still have an issue with Maul surviving and being absolutely overdone xD
On the one hand, they probably shouldn't have brought a padawan on a mission they thought needed like 10 jedi knights (as seen when nobody else broguth theirs, Hell we've not even seen Yord's since episode one), but on the other, they were there for Mae, someone with potentially negative IQ points, so sure bring the child along, she can watch her get jumped like she's in an anime XD
Yep, I’m done with the Disney version of Star Wars for no reason other than the content is poorly written, directed and shot (it even looks cheesy). The acting is fine considering what awful dialogue and characters they are given.
If I give SW another shot, it will be in movie form only. And thank god those are staggered over years.
I kinda feel bad for Thor. He can’t stop loving something that will never love him back.
Repeat after me.. the Jedi are not perfect but they are undeniably the good guys.
Also on Maul, I think it would have been better if it had been his brother instead, but do give it a bit of a pass because it was handled well.
It's still pretty ridiculous.
Hey Thor, "Journey before Destination?" Are you a Cosmere fan?? If so, you need to do some videos on the Cosmere sometime :)
Hey Thor, what are your favorite ideas/concepts that originated from the EU
Hey thor,
I've always hated the idea of the Bendu from Rebels. He seems like a shoehorn neutrality is good stance, and i just dont like the idea. How do you feel about bendu?
Me personally he feels like a deconstruction of that stance as he sits on his ass even when the Empire is on his doorstep and then attacks both sides indiscriminately. I find it another example of you can’t be neutral during a war.
@@emberfist8347 Idk, he doesn't seem to be presented as a bad character.
@@presidentmillardfillmore1329 So him attacking both sides isn’t bad?
Of course, the Bendu is at best a heartless bystander, and at worst, an evil manipulative demon, but that episodes seems to represent him as good.
@@presidentmillardfillmore1329he's pleasant and helpful, but ultimately he's impotent. He takes no action or responsibility. He's like the Ents from Lord of the Rings - if they refused to help in the fight against Saruman.
No question matter. Aslong as the sith takes his shirt off that's all the convincing anyone needs to see his point of view 😒😒😒
I blame the writers. They are in on the plot.
(im writing this before watching as i don't wish to be biased or swayed before i answer this myself) Qimir is to blame for Jecki's death. he literally ran his blade through her...not once, not twice, but 3 times XD. but yeah Sol BROUGHT Jecki because she was his padawan. they also had a team of a dozen or so jedi (im assuming knights with maybe some masters). Yord left his padawan behind (who i think should have just been another jedi that was knighted the same time as yord. he didnt need to have a padawan...especially one who led more than yord did in ep 1) and im guessing theyre gonna use that as an example of how Sol messed up.
Qimir slaughtered the jedi (and not just the men...). He sent Mae to kill Trinity, Tommen, and now kelnacca (the jedi think it was mae) he then floated down and immediately took out 4 jedi; but then struggled with the padawan? it made it look like Sol was a decent master....WHO THEN JUST STOOD THERE AND WATCHED HER DIE. i dont think it was Sol's fault..but the writers and editing make him look like he just pulled a palpy as he stepped back into the shadow and watched as his padawan got impaled
No identical twin ever looks the same after 10 years. Experience and scars from life change people. Tattoos exempt if Sol didn't know his apprentice then he never did let alone jedi can recognize another force wielder or does the original trilogy mean nothing?
I think Leslie is totally wrong on this. It doesn't make Qi'Mir more sympathetic. He is a killer and his actions don't need to be justified. I will agree with the fact that the Jedi bringing children into their order is slightly off putting. Sol did put Jecki into harms way. Sol may not have known the great danger that existed, but he did place her in danger.
Homelander?
18:31 Feels more like you’ve been forced to accept it, much like all of Filoni’s hack writing and trash from that god awful clone wars show. 😅🤣