Hebrew Roots is Not Messianic Judaism | Daniel Thomas Lancaster and Jeremiah Michael
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- Опубликовано: 5 авг 2024
- Messianic Judaism is a prophetic movement of the Holy Spirit. Jews and Gentiles are recovering a Jewish reading of the New Testament and a body of Messiah that has room for both Jews and Gentiles to live out their respective roles and callings. The Hebrew Roots movement is something different. On this episode of Messiah Podcast, Daniel Thomas Lancaster (Education Director for First Fruits of Zion) and Jeremiah Michael (Education Director of the Bram Center for Messianic Jewish Learning in Jerusalem) join us to help us sort through the differences between these two streams of thought and how to steer clear of the many dangers that litter this ancient path.
- Episode Timeline -
00:00 Introductions
02:23 What is Messianic Judaism and what are some traits of Hebrew Roots?
09:52 Messianic Judaism does not pronounce the Sacred Name of God aloud.
16:22 Jesus’ Hebrew name is not “Yahshua.”
19:35 How should the biblical calendar be calculated?
25:58 Are Davidic dancing, circle dances, and banners part of Messianic Judaism?
30:24 One Law: Can Gentiles wear tzitzit in Messianic Judaism?
35:00 Gentiles and Sabbath observance.
39:40 Hebrew Roots regards many elements of Christianity to be idolatry rooted in paganism.
46:16 Who are the ten lost tribes? Two House and British Israelites theories.
55:08 When should the shofar be blown?
1:00:19 A word of encouragement for a brighter future.
- Episode Resources -
HaYesod: The Foundation: The Land, the People, and the Scriptures of Israel
ffoz.org/hayesod
Why Christians Misunderstand Hebrews, Messiah Podcast Episode 51
ffoz.org/messiah/podcast/why-...
The Sabbath Breaker, by Daniel Thomas Lancaster
ffoz.store/products/the-sabba...
From Sabbath to Sabbath, by Daniel Thomas Lancaster
ffoz.store/products/from-sabb...
Messiah Podcast is a production of First Fruits of Zion (ffoz.org) in conjunction with Messiah Magazine. This publication is designed to provide rich substance, meaningful Jewish contexts, cultural understanding of the teaching of Jesus, and the background of modern faith from a Messianic Jewish perspective.
Messiah Podcast theme music provided with permission by Joshua Aaron Music (JoshuaAaron.tv). “Cover the Sea” Copyright WorshipinIsrael.com songs 2020. All rights reserved.
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Jacob’s comment ‘sojourned through this’, is our journey also. Thankful for truth and distinction.
Same.
I'm a christian and just came across this. I have subscribed. Shalom
Shalom! Be sure to check out other episodes on subjects that pique your interest: ruclips.net/p/PL8-Pl6p2iaDEXtYiWCIrhC8iCHSZl2ZAy
You won't regret it and if you want to hear some of Rabbi Damian's teachings on Torah, prophets and Yeshua go to Shalom Macon and subscribe. Be blessed through these teachings. I know I have been blessed by HaShem. Less stress, anxiety and more secure in my faith and walk with Adonai.
In the Torah Club I attend we are studying Hayesod. I recommend it to all especially "newbie's" in the Messianic Judaism "ways".
Yea, the Christmas/Easter thing is not a struggle for me, personally...got tired of all the commercialism & no one really worshipping Yeshua anyway (more of an after-thought). I find more meaning, hope, & worship in the Holy festivals, plus these feast days have come directly from our Lord (unlike the man-made holidays).
Good podcast as always!🌸
Bravo FFOZ! May many hear this relevant discussion!
Joseph was not recognized by his brothers because he “looked Egyptian.” I find the struggle between Christianity and Judaism , among many things, is the idea that Christianity holidays and worship can sometimes look Egyptian (paganistic). I would love to hear a podcast going into more detail about how you guys came to the conclusion that Christmas and Easter do not find their roots in paganism. Love your stuff; a little disagreement on this though. Agree it isn’t idolatry though. For me it is too materialistic and rabbits don’t lay eggs. 😂
In relation to Christmas what about the passage in Jeremiah where it talks about not affixing a tree with gold in your house?
While at first glance one might be tempted to connect this passage with the Christmas tree, upon closer examination of the context, it becomes obvious that the passage is about cutting down a tree and then carving it into an idol. ffoz.org/messiah/articles/jeremiah-10-and-the-christmas-tree
@@firstfruitsofzion So what is so different about using it as a Christmas tree or making it into an idol? It is still idolatry and rooted in paganism.
@@ARenewedmind, intention matters. Having a tree in your home as you celebrate the birth of Jesus isn't the same as worshipping the tree.
Do you discard the Scottish / Irish heritage connecting to Scota and Tea Taphi?
I will say there’s a tone of “if you’re not keeping things to the ways the rabbis have instructed you’re not really a messianic Jew” there’s a lot of good things the rabbis have instructed and a lot of not so much. We have the disadvantage in the Messianic Jewish community that we didn’t have a voice in rabbinic debates/dialogues all those years, but to what level of authority do we give the rabbinic traditions? What lines are drawn as Messianic Jews.
It's a complex question, but our Master gave us some guidance. The Pharisees maintained the traditionalist beliefs of the Jewish people, but some erred in hypocrisy and a few specific practices. Though the Master called out their mistakes and said to avoid their sins, he told his disciples to do as the Pharisees taught (Matthew 23:2-3). The practice of the Pharisees continued with the rabbis, so while not everything in traditional Judaism will align with the teachings of the apostles (e.g., Yeshua's messiahship, the role of Gentiles), we should assume broad overlap.
Is there a video on why your name is first fruits of Zion, if not can you make one?
Specifically talking about cutting down a tree and shaping it into an idol.
Yes, here's a podcast with Boaz Michael about the origins of FFOZ: ffoz.org/messiah/podcast/prophecy-torah-club-and-the-origins-of-first-fruits-of-zion
A distinction needs to be made between mainstream Messianic Judaism and FFOZ's Messianic Judaism. Mainstream MJ is basically an evangelical Christian movement among Jewish believers in Jesus without the supersessionism i.e. the idea that the Church has replaced Israel as God's chosen people. FFOZ Messianic Judaism is "Judaism plus Jesus" . FFOZ Messianic Judaism seeks to interpret the Torah, Jesus, the gospel, Paul etc. through the lens of Rabbinic Judaism, which is the Judaism developed by the rabbis (successors to the Pharisees) over the centuries after the Temple was destroyed in AD 70.
Accurate and well said.
FFOZ also believes that Jesus was a Pharisee, and that He and His disciples lived like ultra-Orthodox Jews.
@@viboraodalager8818, we disagree with your framing, but your broader point that we seek to interpret Jesus and his disciples within a Jewish framework, not an evangelical one, is correct. It matters that Jesus was a first-century rabbi, and studying similar Jewish sources reveals the context in which the entire New Testament took place.
@@firstfruitsofzion I think you should make it clear that by "Jewish framework" you mean Rabbinic Judaism--Oral Law, Talmud, Rashi, Rambam, Hasidism etc.--and when you say "Jesus was a first-century rabbi" you mean that you actually think He was highly likely a Pharisee and that He and His disciples are in the same category as the Haredim of today.
So is Commonwealth Theology a pretty good term in how you guys approach the Gentile believer then?
No, that is a different understanding. We don't assert that Gentile followers of Messiah are descendants or representatives of the lost tribes. The commonwealth of Israel (Ephesians 2:12) is the kingdom of Israel plus the Gentile nations in allegiance to King Messiah. It's analogous to Great Britain in that England and Scotland are part of the same whole but the Scottish aren't English.
@@firstfruitsofzion Thank you for that input. There was book called Commonwealth Theology that caught my attention here recent and I seen a couple of videos by the author. He did note that he wasn't one law.
I would've love to hear the mention of Hebrew pictograph.
Is it also in Psalms somewhere to blow the shofar on new moon? And assuming yom Teruah too as this wasn’t mentioned.
I agree that there is proper observance . My question is would you consider messianic judaism more similar to karaite than rabbinic ( orthodox). Putting Torah above the takanot traditions
No, Messianic Judaism is not like Karaitism. The Karaites rejected longstanding Jewish tradition and interpretation like the Sadducees did, but the New Testament-the idea of a Messiah itself-falls apart outside a rabbinic worldview. Despite the polemics, the apostles and the Pharisees were on the same page on most things as Messianic Judaism is with Orthodox Judaism.
How do you guys view the Noahide Laws? Ben Shapiro said he believes in the Noahide laws.
When anyone asks my opinion on saying G-d’s name, I ask them if they call their earthly father by his name. Why wouldn’t you show your Heavenly Father the same respect?
Concerning the pronouncing of God's name, on Mt. Carmel, after God answered Elijah with fire, what did all the people exclaim? It wasn't "Hashem hu ha elohim", they used his name YHVH. And in the Psalms, is there one composed using "hashem"? "Sing to hashem", nay. You guys are the scholars, but seems to me that using "hashem" was added rather late in response to Roman persecution? And, guess I was miffed a little, when you kind of stereotyped rooters as insisting that pronoucing the name is a salvation issue. Just not the case, they are not a bunch of hill billies. Myself, when reading to my family, I will use "the LORD" or sometimes his name because I want them to remember that is what the scripture really says. And how do you say we don't know the pronouciation - the vowel marks are found two places in the Alepo scroll. Nehemia Gordon has done stellar work in this area. Don't put me in a box; guess I have one foot as a Jew and another in the other category. Ok, that's my two cents. Still appreciated your explanations and teaching very much.
Thank you for your comment. The Tetragrammaton was pronounced in the days of the Tanakh, but it was not at the time of Yeshua because most had forgotten the correct pronunciation. If Yeshua and the apostles wanted believers then or now pronouncing the Name, they would contradicted the status quo of Judaism and preserved the pronunciation-but they didn't. The Gospels only reinforce the practice of using circumlocutions like "Father," "Heaven," and "Lord."
@@firstfruitsofzion Thanks for your explanation.
I don’t think that people who are using what they believe is the name of God are doing it to be offensive or to appeal to Jewish people - like they are not trying to get praise or look good. They sincerely want to deepen their relationship with God and be close to Him and know Him personally and more deeply. You make it sound like people are doing it to look impressive or something. Additionally, the idea of a secret name of God is a whole Masonic teaching. Separate and apart from it being considered sacred in Judaism. The question I have is was the name of God actually named in the earliest writings and then removed? Isn’t that what the ineffable name doctrine is? That God’s name was too holy to write or speak so it was removed / replaced in later transcripts? People who have moved to the earliest transcripts are simply looking for the earliest truths not corrupted by ‘traditions’ of men. So understand that people looking for earliest truths are looking that way because they have largely come out of a faith / institution that was false or tangled in falsehoods and they are being called out. And the calling out has a series of stepping stones on a path that is a unique walk for them in following Yeshua- discarding old traditions and detangling falsehoods from truth. It is a walk, which removes trappings to get to the roots -
I have not been part of either world by the way so I don’t understand some of what you are talking about but came from a Mormon background and studied into freemasonry which is what opened my eyes- and learning some things from messianic Jews and some from ‘Hebrew roots’ I suppose as you define them. In coming from a Mormon background learning about freemasonic connections to the various connections to knights Templar- I have been on a journey to detangle false ideology and focus on Bible study with a deeper and deeper dive into Hebrew.
Excellent questions. For context, the Hebrew Name of God is not hidden in Judaism. Pick up any Jewish-published Bible or holy book in Hebrew, and you'll find the four-letter Name in the text. It was known and spoken in the days of the prophets. However, the Babylonian dispersion of the Jewish people led to widespread uncertainty on how to pronounce it. The issue was that written Hebrew didn't have vowels, so just looking at the four letters wouldn't reveal how to say it correctly. Jews left pronouncing the Name to the priesthood, and they began using circumlocutions or titles to refer to God rather than mispronouncing his Name. Christians and scholars have since used various vowelizations to try and say the Name, but these are complete guesses. The Hebrew Roots movement encourages calling God by these guessed pronunciations, but Messianic Judaism maintains respecting God by respecting his Name. We find affirmation throughout the New Testament that Yeshua and the apostles reference God as "God," "the Father," "heaven," etc. without pronouncing the Sacred Name aloud.
May God bless you on your journey of detangling and discovery. We encourage you to go through our 10-lesson Bible study on the Jewish foundations of the Bible. If you want to understand the Bible in its original context, visit ffoz.org/hayesod
I do not think that description is what Jewish roots is about. I have seen a lot of followers of the jewish roots and they show (action) a lot of love towards Christians and Jews. They just do not want to be categorized with any religion
Separating from Judaism is the root problem.
Gotta watch out with that. In Revelation it says woe to those who say they are Jews but are not. I have Ashkenazi DNA but do I run around saying hey, I am Jewish? No, I don't. I do find myself being lead by the Ruach HaKodesh towards the Messianic Judaism. That's why I have some questions. Will be reaching out soon. Thanks FFOZ.
I have been many non orthodox Jewish weddings. I have seen men & women dancing together. I May be wrong but I get the only judaism you refer to is orthodox. Many Judaisms have their own practices & what I observed for 30 plus years that Messianic Judaism has build their practices from both Orthodox & Conservative Judaism.
I’m in the HRM. While it is not a formal “denomination” unfortunately for your audience they are left with hearing some of the fringe views of the HRM, which is too bad. It would be better to dialogue with the more mainstream or common HRM groups like 119 ministries or Torah Family. It’s my observation that most HRM members recognize God’s divorce from the House of Israel (10 tribes) and he would have done the same to the House of Judah (Jews) except for his promise made to David. Also, HRM recognizes that Hebrews, Israelites and Jews are not the same. All this has an impact on how one interprets scripture. I’ve heard some in a MJ congregation carelessly say, “the Jews” came out of Egypt, and even say that Abraham was a Jew 😢SMH.
It would be proper to speak politely of the differences between MJ and HR rather than mockingly or looking to the fringes to make a point, it makes your organization look low class or dishonest. Personally I have enjoyed many of your teachings, sadly this is not one of them.😢
It's a false premise that the ten tribes are not Jews. While "Jew" is derived from "Judah," it's abundantly clear from textual evidence that the term applied to members of all the tribes of Israel after the Babylonian exile: ffoz.org/messiah/articles/called-by-the-name-jew
I love Matza. I'll eat matza on Shabbat when my stomach can't handle the challah. LOL.
Overall the modern roots of saying the name is also very dubious, even without the context of offending Jews (which in itself is valid enough reason not to say it), saying it is a contemporary poisonous phenomena used to disrupt the Christian linguistic culture.
Sounds as though you believe the FFOZ understanding of Messianic Judaism is the only correct one. I appreciate FFOZ but also recognize that there are other Messianic Jewish voices. Shalom (I speak as a Gentile believer who is learning to walk in fellowship with Jewish believers)
My mom will not claim that she Jewish. She's scared of getting laughed at. My grandma was the same way.
Good stuff. Thanks Rabbi Damian and all you leaders at FFOZ. Learning and growing one day at a time. Baruch HaShem and shalom.
But isn't Judah only 1 of 12 Tribes of Israel? Things that make ya go hmmmmmm.......
That's an isolated point. The name of the southern kingdom (Judah) became a name for all Israel after the Babylonian exile, so members of all tribes came to be called "Jews." Paul the Benjamite calls himself a Jew multiple times. ffoz.org/messiah/articles/called-by-the-name-jew
So is Commonwealth Theology a pretty good term in how you guys approach the Gentiles then?