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Does The Foundations Update For No Man's Sky Salvage The Game?
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- Currently ranking high in people's 'Most Disappointing Game Of The Year' lists No Man's Sky has just released a major update for the game. So what can owners of the game expect, and is it time to reconsider that refund?
As someone who plays elite dangerous. That docking/landing movement with the freighter made me shit my pants in fear
IKR? the angle he was coming in to the freighter was savage.
aye, the takeoff as well.
its all pretty easy in NMS though. Nothing like manually doing it in ED
I forgot about No mans sky.
Btw the building is like exactly the same like Subnautica
I was thinking the same thing. the game is now space Subnautica, Only less good as regular Subnautica.
Same. Completely forgot this game existed for a good 2 months.
Jurassic Xenomorph Ditto 💩
It will come out in therapy.
I'm glad the haven't abandoned this project. But the need to improve their PR and start sharing their progress.
Add a "y" at the end of every "the" in my original comment.
Maybe they haven't abandoned it but their players have for sure.
You can edit and delete your comments, you know.
"Hey we decided, after you trusted our lies and bought our game which never fulfilled our promises, that you deserve an update after the official release which adds a little bit of that content which we actually promised."
Seriously if they want to fix things they have to create the whole thing from scratch.
That's what got them into the position they are in now. The community is too stupid for that. They make up promises where there are none. If they talk everyone will just assume anything they say are promises again. HG have learned their lesson and will now say nothing.
A fundamental error in a game about exploration is to tie you to one planet. That's just bloody stupid. They should've let you build your own mobile base. I.e. Ship construction and customization. I'm astonished by this choice.
+Sean Rodden you can build you base on a freighter. Also, if you have a base on a planet you can teleport to it from any space station.
Got a question related to this, Scott (I don't have the game yet because of... not having a PS4 or a good computer yet, lol). Are we able to... I dunno, like, ask the captain of the freighter to travel to a given system because we'd like them to be there (either because we're currently exploring that one or because we use it as our home system), or are they 'stuck' where they are and you have to travel/teleport there yourself?
+Scott Manley Good news that you can put in on a freighter (sorry if you explained that in the vid, my internet dropped out about 5 mins in). Being able to teleport is a concern though IMO, again because of a conflict with the concept of exploration which Sean Murray repeatedly said was the entire point of the game. If you can teleport to your base planet from any station, regardless of interstellar distances, why would you faff about with spending time messing about with hyperdrives? Yes, it's possible to justify that, I played enough face-to-face RPGs to come up with some explanations, but I feel that the fundamental nature of the game takes a hit from these changes. Like all internet pundits, I would've done it differently :)
How is that stupid? I'm sorry, but it's not. It makes sense. Sure, having a mobile base is also smart, but so is having a home base, or "mother" base.
Hey stupids u can buy a space freighter and build upon the interior
No Man's Sky is now an unofficial Early Alpha
Perhaps in 2050 they'll rerelease the game with everything they promised, but by then I'll already be playing Half Life 3 so I'm not going to play it
Proteus you will be playing half life 3 by 2050? You put to much confidence in valve
Heh, there's a bigger chance that NMS will become as good as it was promised than there is for HL3 to come out.
Whenever someone still cares about either at that point, THAT is a totally different question.
This kind of ignorant bashing is so disappointing.
Do you even know what an alpha build of a game is? You sound like such a jackass I hope you know.
dont forget AC unity ubisoft did'nt bother fixing it and there a large company. hello games i a 5 man team i am excited to more soon.
In before everyone jumps on the hate train. ¬_¬
This is the same building mechanic used by PLENTY of games. Osiris, sub, etc. I like that they're still working on this game and it's clear they're passionate about what they do otherwise they'd have given up on it months ago.
Should it have been a £40 game? No. Am I looking forward to seeing where this goes, yes.
James Noble I certainly didn't refund it. While it's not quite what they promised, it's somewhat therapeutic to play (for me at least). I'm looking forward to future updates.
There's only so much you can do with crafting systems. Especially in a game that's already been released. I'm impressed they got this to work and tbh I think this was the smarter building style for NMS. Who want's to be bogged down with a minecraft style building system in a game like NMS?
(If you do want that though I suggest Starmade.)
Problem is they still have yet to apologize formally for not having features they said were in the game or at least an explanation. What we get is a build mode thing, that really doesn't add too much to the game exploration wise or fixing what needed fixing. Oh geez and don't even get me started about the center of the galaxy carrot on a stick nonsense.
Indeed. It should've been a $25,- game at release.
they could still do a shit ton with the crafting systme TF are on about just look at minecraft they added so many items to craft after the full game released , a mean a shit ton of items , everything we see here should have been in the game at launch
subnautica above ground
Except Subnautica is actually fun.
Eagle262 Sub is so much better
That was my first thought too. It's funny though because before NMS came out I was like "Oh cool it's like Subnautica but with a whole galaxy to explore." Boy was that a let down.
To be fair the NMS building system is clearly superior to subnautica, much more variety and versatility (purely from a structural point of view). You can actually build while inside and still see where you're placing things.
+Kerspaprog Balceram It's an acceptable point of view.
you cant polish a turd but you can give it a 1.1 foundation patch.
Any polish makes the turd stand out more too. Like these new snap-maps with better-ish textures, they look outa place imo, all textures need remodelling and a fuktonne more to save tbhis stinker.
Actually, the Mythbusters proved that you _can_ polish a turd.
I mean, it's still a turd, but it's a shiny one.
Sobi the Robot Shiny happy turdy's yay!
Ben Cook There have been multiple bad games that when updated with features got good. They could have abandoned this game put choose to stick with it and try at least to some extent to fix it. I think looking at some of the others in the industry that is a good thing. Yes they maid massive mistakes and promised things that did not feature but they might just pull of making it a good game if they keep adding features. Most of people that keep hating come of as trying to hard to be edgy. We all get it it was a cluster fuck.
Nope Dope - It was an unfinished game that neither lived up to the hype nor made good on its initial promises. Time will tell if this and future updates can actually redeem this game in the eyes of its unpleased audience.
wow 18 slots for a freighter is that it? nah im still good not to play this game anymore
Freighter slots allow much bigger stacks though.
JamboyStu you can build more cargo slots without having to swap freighters
+JamboyStu you can stack up to 1000 items per slot( on the exosuit you can only stack 250 and on your ship only 500) and you can stack items such as gravitino balls in stacks of 10
What?
Might I just say that just like the ship you can buy freighters with more inventory slots.
I thought Sean Murray had claimed asylum in Russia like Snowden by now.
This made me laugh.
I am fromRussia, Moscow, and I say: We hate Sean Murray too and if we vill see this animel, we will beat him!
I don't think the Russians would give Murray an asylum. Angry mobs would execute him outside the Kremlin.
+TheRaellz Russians love their games.
samsonguy10k if you go to wathc russian wideo about NMS, you will see hate on hate and THIS run out from hate (If i write this wrong use translate for Rus. ver: Ненависть на ненависти и ненавистью погоняется)
Why should I play this when Space Engineers does this a million times better?
Ikr, this game deserves a 10/10 by IGN now. It's obvious.
sure but it is much higher quality
I wouldn't exactly say it does it better. SE is still quite lacking. while you can build ships and stations and all that, I feel the building system itself isn't the best. for some reason they still can't do liquid water. they have hardly touched on NPCs (cyber hounds? really?). I'm not really happy with either game, but there are areas where one is better than the other.
neither does this given that each system is a straight up copy with some color changes.
Well how do you innovate a building system? In the end, it has to be modular, and I don't think having individual wall and floor modules would make much sense.
No.
There, I saved you 17 minutes.
To all the people saying "it's an exact copy of Subnautica just out of water," Subnautica did not invent base building and it is not the same system(can't build custom square rooms in Subnautica not to mention the balancing of integrity so you don't have leaks). It's fine if you still don't like No Man's Sky but don't just claim it's ripping off of other games. Both games offer different experiences and have different goals.
The biggest mistake No Man's Sky made was to be marketed and treated like a AAA title when it is clearly an indie title that should have followed the path of other indie titles like Subnautica
Alexander Vega I completely agree. Marketing got people to hyped. This is definitely more of an early access indie title than a AAA title.
Jelani Thompson Yeah price is a valid argument. I agree that No Man's Sky is not a $60 game and like you said it should have been at least $15 or around $20.
I have no issue with criticisms of the game and how it was handled. My beef is with the "they copied this game" crowd.
Jelani Thompson which I can understand but then again all space habitats look similar (I'm assuming there is a scientific reason for that design).
***** It's because it's an efficient use of limited materials and living/storage space.
Sadly the same happens for many other games. How many MMOs are "WoW clones"? How many open world crime games are "GTA clones"? Hell, there are even more ridiculous cases like people saying that Paladins copied Sombra from Overwatch (ignoring the fact that the so called Sombra clone was there before Sombra was revealed).
People automatically assume that if 2 games do a similar thing, the less popular game cloned the popular game without even considering release dates. Yet games do similar things literally all the time (it's called being in the same genre).
Like, where are the factions? Where are the portals on the planets? Where are the giant dinosaurs or the huge rhinos knocking down trees? Where are the planet sife dog fights? Where are the amazing graphics shown in the original trailers?
they are in a folder labeled e3 2014 on Sean Murray's laptop and they are just a bunch of scripted vids
in a game that wasnt over hyped and rushed.
about 3 years and a shit load of money doesnt sound rushed to me and maybe if they didnt want over hyping they shouldnt have anounced it at e3
SemiCircle the amount of stupid that just came out of your mouth amazes me
bart fernsy my bad wasnt 3 years they started development way before three years ago and they just did most development three years before release simple mistake unless you meant they werent trying to hype the game which is stupid because you dont anounce a game at e3 and straight up lie about features that it wont have unless your trying to hype it or if you think 3+ years and tons of resources isnt enough to make a game thats just retarded
Soooo, No Man's Sky is now basically just Subnautica without the water and the genuinely interesting wildlife ...
Thomas Oltmann its a step up from what it was before.
When you're that low the only direction is up.... unless they downgraded something but other than the graphics there isn't much to downgrade...
ArcanoTGS one can always descend.....spectrums have no boundries
Came to look at No Man's Sky update, got in trouble for sleeping at work.
Joking aside, looks like I may log back on to check it out once properly liquored up.
Jelani Thompson not really.
Jelani Thompson That's how they roll. The whole 'original' gameplay is a direct lift from Out There: Omega... Now they just added stuff from another game. They seem to have zero own ideas.
I think Sean and his gang where starry eyed dreamers who wanted to make a game, nothing wrong with that, i like that. they got in way over their heads and they hype train was off the rails, the poor naive bastards had no idea what was going to happen. So even though i am still salty and butthurt by it all. i DO believe they deserve a break and some kindness by us the community.
Sean Murray straight up lied
He was a dumbass for doing so, but if the game slowly amends the lies by doing what they claimed they would, then he wouldn't be as much of a lier.
dakota neumann That dosnt makeup the feeling of being decieved.
No. Hello Games deserves no breaks and no kindness. There are good, honest developers out there (Frontier comes to mind) who deserve the praise, the breaks, the kindness and the money. Fuck assholes like Hello Games. So tired of people excusing and rewarding shit behavior.
Sean Murray LIED repeatedly and consciously! He didn't exaggerate, he didn't hype, he didn't embellish. He lied through his fucking teeth. That much should be obvious. He rode the hype train and lied his ass off to make money. That makes him a bad person. Stop sucking his dick. Support devs who behave well instead.
Yeah, kinda like how Hitler was just a man who wanted to rebuild Germany, right? Let's ease of Hitler guys he was probably actually a pretty decent bloke.
God damn, another update like this, and I'll rethink that refund.
Across Earth ikr
No reason to rethink anything. If you got a refund you can buy the shit back for half what you originally paid. Still a waste of money but a waste of less money. No idea why anyone would give that shit company a cent but I digress.
Seybertooth I like playing this game so I gave them money, lol. I realize that this game is basically a beta for this new genre; I'm just really excited for future space/universe true exploration games and I'm glad I'm a part of the beginning.
The company is scummy for false advertising though; nowadays I know that ads aren't the final product.
That's pretty much how I feel. I bought NMS expecting it to be an art piece / tech demo, so I wasn't surprised when that was what I got.
Still, as a "game" I'm glad they've improved it. There's a good reason all the good procedural exploration games have autogrinders, storage systems, and fast travel. *hint* minecraft *hint*
yea I pirated it and I recommand it to everyone, and it was not even worth space on my disk, it gets boring after first 10 planets you ¨visit because they all look almost the same no variety, I builded base and uninstaled it because it is boring... whole game has fucking 2.6gb what the fuck is that, even spore is bigger
Hate train still chuggin ya'll, all aboard
Hate train, rechah'ged.
Hate train at, 90%
This update is the same as subnautica and subnautica is just 20$
McBlemmen or maybe a youtuber? damn man don't be so harsh
leavy cant take the heat then dont come on the internet lol
That's exactly what crossed my mind! Plus, Subnautica is also a good game, and they keep adding stuff all the time.
Okay, so?
Cao Cao so if game A is completely the same as game B, and game A also came prior to game B, why would you ever buy game B???
say what you want about how bad the devs are, they were spot on with the music
The music was made by 65daysofstatic, not the devs. And yeah, it's probably the best part of the game
educate yourself.... ;)
As LKAChannel said. Hello Games chose a good music producer. That's all. Giving them actual credit for the music does the performers an injustice.
I can't pronounce the games name beyond the word No.
Months of abject silence at the charges thrown against them. Pretending they didn't flat out lie to their customers and rip them off. Absolutely nothing.
Suddenly, they announce an update, and release it. Let me check the date.... oh, would you look at that. Releasing monster update just in time to snag some Black Friday/Cyber Monday sales. Just in time to rip off more people.
Sean Murray is everything wrong with the games industry. This update fixes nothing.
Not trying to defend them or anything. But they actually announced this big update with base building and freighters a week or so before the game officially came out.
Secondly, I don't think you can blame them for not giving any news about this update for months after the serious backlash they got for making too many promises and not actually delivering on them. If anything, this is a sign that they learned their lesson.
That being said, there is no doubt that they probably had a patch ready much sooner but decided to wait for black friday to get some sales. Not like no one else isn't guilty of it to be honest.
Sean Murray won't be able to show his face at a public convention again. He is a disgraceful greedy liar how better stick to making his own games be cause only a fool would employ him.
This isn't even their work. they straight up ripped off the Subnautica construction mechanics, down to the shape, stacking and connections.
jm somville They didn't make promises and not deliver. Paradox does that, BethSoft does that, but they eventually deliver. Sean Murray flat out lied through his teeth for months on end, for the sole reason of not messing up that pre-order nest egg that was ballooning beyond any form of reason.
They KNEW what form was going to be the release version for months and months prior to release. Because even the foundation for these things aren't even in the engine, meaning it won't ever be in the game. Didn't stop Murray from giving interviews hyping stuff he absolutely KNEW was not true.
Also, does the Steam page still have trailers showing off things that aren't in the game? Have they even bothered take down the falsehoods sitting on their Steam storefront?
Eks calybur Tbf I'd rather them be silent than release any WIP updates because that's what caused the out of control hype.
With the price drop and this update i might actually buy NMS....
There's no punchline, no joke, no "Not", etc.
Pirate it until 3 updates.
keep waiting dog its still boring AF maybe in 2 years
I'm thinking maybe 1 year for the game to at least be enjoyable somewhat, especially with the use of mods. Of course it depends if they are going to stick with the game, but if they decided to stick with the game and update it even after the shit show that was release, then I do believe they will.
But there hasn't been a price drop, it's still $59.99. It just happens to be on sale right now for a bit less. Still higher than what I'm willing to pay for it as it was, or as it is, and their Steam page is STILL made of images that don't come from the game, so they're still lying about their content.
Wait more. Buying in early access is a bad idea, specially a game with a history as shitty as this one is a BAD idea.
You missed the point of The Foundation update if you think this will salvage the game. It's for things to come. Wait until those updates to ask that question.
James Brown I know
that's my point
It looks like a early version of Subnautica :P
My thoughts exactly.
"Fuck, we need to fix this game everyone hate us!"
"I know let's steal someone else's shit and say we got it sorted"
I suspect Sean will soon appear in on Colbert and explain how the game is now everything they promised.
Sebastian ikr
foundations. they already had a foundation didnt they? lies
eh sunbautica invented base building now ?
*****
who did subnautica get their inspiration from ?
The game is still shallow. This doesnt make any difference. You're still repeating the same process between each planet until you hit center and then it zooms out and you restart the game.
Is this your first video game? All video games are you following basic game loop...
No, they dont. Shooters and Racing games, sure. But other genres not really.
you can say what you want but its true. All games can be summed down to a very basic game loop. Skyrim for example:
- Fight enemies
- Upgrade equipment
- Move toward objective
- Watch/read story sequences.
All the fighting is basically the same you have melee and ranged attacks. Upgrades are basic too there's no depth to them they just upgrade basic stats. Movement is too simple as well, all you have is walking, sprinting, and horses. The horses especially suck because they aren't realistic. The objectives are lame too, they are all kill things or go to a place. They get very repetitive after a while. The story is also meaningless. Its fake for one, everyone gets the same story, and it doesn't change anything significant about the game.
(the above is a proper attempt to make a game look bad. You cant even do that. You suck at trolling even lol. But its still obviously trolling even if its a poor attempt You intentionally leave out things and use measureless words like depth or just same false things like "everything is the same" or "no difference". When you actually sum up the game without leaving shit out to be a jackass, then ill consider your groundless opinion)
The game is still very shallow. You just collect resources, build base put some flowers here and there, then you reach the end of the game and you're spawned again somewhere else. Theoretically you can go play Creative or Hardcore, but first one gets boring after a while and the second one is way too hard.
I'm obviously talking about Minecraft.
Your summary is highly inaccurate, but good try.
Short answer: No.
Long answer:
No.
Subnautica didn't invent their style of base construction. It's just by far the most popular game that uses it, so no, this is not ripping off anything. It's just using a trope that has been around for a while. I don't think the game needed to get itself out of any pit in the first place, so this update is genuinely nice to see. People may disagree saying that the game was a complete failure, and yes it is the representative may be to blame for some of the false expectations, but I think most of it comes from that fact that people don't know what the point of this game is. There is no endgame. There is no goal. The "end" of the game is not the end of the game. If you think there is, you are missing the point completely. If you got this game because you wanted multiplayer, you are missing the point completely. If you wanted combat, you are missing the point completely. If you want to discover things, study them, and be able to enjoy each distinct world, you're gonna get that with time. This game is not even close to being complete, but for how it is right now, I would never believe that less than 20 people worked on this
People are also generally inconsiderate on some of the intentional design choices. Take for example the menus. You have to hold a button in order to select something. That is not dumb, that is actually quite good, because for both the console and PC version, they help to prevent any errors the user makes when selecting something if they are trying to be fast. This allows them to put more things on screen in a more compact formation
Xannari Ferrows Nice to see that someone here gets it. I'm so tired of seeing people bitch and moan about this. They never offer any original ideas of their own because they don't seem to realize its damn near impossible to find any.
Is base building on planets exclusively for one mode, or do I have to do something before I can start that?
I haven't dipped my toes into the other game modes yet but I think you just have to find the big circular room on any given habitable planet. After that you're basically free to just build out from it
"I can big a big tubular room and pretend I'm GLaDOS" I smiled for a long time after that!
Building system and even the look of the buildings seems ripped straight out of Subnautica to me
yep! but without the decoration options... or maybe it does have that i don't know and i don't care.
What about now?
Can we just accept it was failure and see how the updates go? The comments of "Derr still sucks" or "You can polish a turd" or honestly really fucking irritating
Subnautica, Subnautica, Subnautica, Subnautica!!
I was highly disappointed in the game just as everyone else, but someone copying subnautica's system is kind of novel compared to the bajillion copies of whoever started the Rust/Ark/Subsistence building system
minecraft started it every game that came after mincecraft copy'd minecraft , nobody ripped of subnautica lolol
I disagree not everything after minecraft building copied it, no man's sky building is nothing like it
ChuggyNation Chugg i can think of others who minecraft ripped of, who else stacked blocks of stone and shit to build stuff? oh yea, the egyptians.
NReFa every game with building ripped off cavemen...they built stuff
I wonder if you are a subnautica's fan...mmmh i would said yes...nevermind.
You are right Subnautica is successful building and exploration game because they had a great focus on one setting.
The main problem of no Man Sky is it was litteraly going nowhere and not in a fun way as the center of the galaxy show maybe a secret ending hide somewhere who knows !
But i think they are in the right way because :
In no man sky the planet by itself can drain a lot of ressources and possibly kill you with high and low tempeture,radiation...so i think it's a good thing to be able to build from the inside,farm ressource,use npc to do ressearch and crafting to made alliance usefull maybe later tame the faune ARK,ARK,ARK ^ ^.
And this feature was ask by after lauchn by the now tiny active community and so they give a building system,it shows they are listening at least.
I played this for an hour, it's not bad but they've got a long way to go still. I just uninstalled it.
g3-Pesty Same. Also someone discovered everything in my systems, even though there's fifteen quintillion star systems, they had to find mine…
g3-Pesty Just like SC and ED. Another 3-5 years.
if only they made an fun online mode where players can go at war or some shit like that because there stilll nothing to do in this game .
dont forget AC unity ubisoft did'nt bother fixing it and there a large company. hello games i a 5 man team i am excited to more soon.
Some massive conflict would be fun- fight for control over galaxy, solar system sized battles! But I'm afraid it would need to implement quite a lot of new mechanics (like solar systems being real solar systems instead of static planets stucked inside huge skybox) to make it anything other than giant clusterfuck..
I played some of No Man's Sky last weekend, and my prevailing memory is one of boredom.
Great! Now I'll give them another year to stew, and pick it up at a massive discount. Seems only fair.
There are actually valid reasons to wait on buying games these days. If its likely to have a long trail of DLC content, and (like me) you like to get only one Strategy Guide, waiting for all the DLC to come out is worth it. Plus its likely to be less buggy, and/or mods have fixed them. Did it with Skyrim (where the hardcover guide was twice the cost of the eventual game pack), and expect to do that with FO4 and the current Deus Ex.
There are exceptions of course; Obduction being the main one, since I'm a fan of Cyan (hence my avatar), but for some reason it has no strat guide. Bummer. And MMOs of course are there own little slice of 'interesting,' but I consider those to be an acquired taste (and they fill a number of niches now too).
For NMS itself, I understand there is an online component, which I feel would be the main dealbreaker with me; The ability to play a game offline (when it initially acts as if its *not* an MMO) is rather important to me.
+T. S. “Sungak” Kimball I believe nms actually is an offline game, people keep thinking everything is server-based, but I don't think it it. To be honest, I really don't know, never played it.
+Headrock The game is definitely something worth considering now, but not at $60. It's on sale on Steam at this time for $36, but I wouldn't recommend that price for what is offered. NMS is still indie fare and should be priced accordingly. Hello Games pretending like they are AAA is one of their real flaws.
samsonguy10k "Hello Games pretending like they are AAA is one of their real flaws."
As I understand it, they've kicked up a real shitstorm doing exactly that ;)
On the other hand, it's not like AAA developers haven't failed in pretending that their games are AAA recently, either. :P
***** I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet. There is still a lot left to be desired.
So, at launch there was basically no content, now you still have no content but you can build a house. Yeah, still pretty happy with my refund decision.
so now it's more of a subnautica in space?
I mean, im not complaining if that's the direction they take
Dayne Nelson neither am i as long as they don't add space whales
Except the Subnautica world wasnt created by an procedural generator in .25secs.
AnDay5zlebt i thought it was random though
WorldoftheLegends No it isnt.
Its the same world for everyone. And its hand designed and built.
And on every corner you notice that someone put and puts a LOT of work and love in the details.
Also it changed a lot over time. From when Sips played (and i picked it up) to now, the world has changed a lot.
And there are partly build areas you can only reach by cheats (1200m and deeper) for now, that are developed. They changed a lot recently. Also the story takes more and more shape. And will probably have its finale down there.
I never picked up NMS cause I was wary from the all the hype around it, but if they keep adding massive updates like this, I'll be sure to grab it on a Steam sale.
Honestly if I had got it on sale, I wouldn't have been bitter. It's a cool £15 game but an unacceptable £40 one you know?
Its on sale at the moment!!! Dont make the same mistake i did and pay $60
It's not worth the price it is on sale now for. Better to wait.
what about this update is "massive"?
PTrailblazer57 Not a thing.
sadly the power of meme will never let this game be anything. no one will ever try to judge the game fairly for what it is now, because "DID YOU KNOW ? LIES ! LOL".
if only they had spent some money to hire someone to take care of public relations, instead of having the creator talking about his dreams as if it was plans on paper. everyone that worked on a project that probably was too big for you know how it is, to have amazing plans and then realizing you can't do any of that. I'm pretty sure that if wasn't for that this game would be just "meh" for most people and "pretty cool" for fans of exploration.
but well... at least I'm happy to know they didn't gave up on the game as it looked, instead they seem to be doing what they should have done before, working on the shadows and not feeding any hype.
Danilo Oliveira Even if what you said was true (Sean Murray just getting too ambitious when speaking of the game), that doesn't excuse what was actually SHOWN. E3 Demos have presented plenty of what was promised. They were also staged demos. This isn't some star eyed developer who just couldn't deliver- there is sketchy shit going on.
Cage Vick what they show was a concept demo running in the ingame engine. there was no game back them, if that was really the real thing it would have been released a month later. they were just showing what the game was going to be about and what they were planning for the game... but again, small devs dreaming too high
A local used game shop here in the UK was selling No mans Sky for £2.99 on ps4. Now this update has come out they have upped the price to £9.99
Let's have an exploration game and tie the player to a single planet. Because that's a great fucking idea.
you dont have to build dummy
You can build your base on a freighter that you can call anywhere, genius.
mr potato best potato
Did you know you can still explore? You can just leave your home and use a teleporter to get back. Watch the whole video next time, dumbass.
lololol is that sarcastic irony i sense here?
Goddamn still so many people hating on No Man's Sky, like the Dev's didn't have it bad already. Yes I understand that the game was rushed out the door, but Sony was the one who gave them the time limit and obviously the dev team had to get it out the door one way or another, don't forget that they are still a pretty small team compared to other developers. If the games industry was run by whether or not a developers project was well received or not then a lot of games would not exist, kind of makes me not want to become a developer for the industry because it seems like everyone will just shit on my project and give me massive amounts of hate... :/ no bueno for devs if the communities implode all the time as well, but oh well can't please everyone
You think I'm trying an "apologist" thing, Sean Murray is a fucking liar and he deserved the hate he got, I'm saying the entire company didn't deserve what they got, but because of Sean Murray they copped shit as well
People are getting tired of the "eh, we can patch it later" garbage. It took six months after releasing it to make it barely an actual game. Hello Games deserves all of the hate they're getting, and still will. We've been shat on for far too long because companies think they can get away with it. There are many projects that don't get shit on, DuckTales remastered, Minecraft, so on and so forth because they are what they are and came out without all the bullshit complications.
This was a game that promised the sky and refused to even give us the dirt, and then just half a year later gets a needed patch. Hope this cripples a lot of careers actually.
"like the Dev's didn't have it bad already."
Not as bad as they deserve. Gamers need to stop making excuses for devs that behave badly. Support those that behave well instead. You know, those that *don't* lie their asses off to hype their shit? Why not save your compassion for them?
Seybertooth I save my compassion for dev teams like Hello games, Sean Murray is and will be on his own for the lies he told. Look just because NMS came down around their ears so fast they couldn't even blink doesn't mean that the community should just become a toxic mass of white noise. I understand the hate I'm getting for trying to push "it's the developers fault it flopped blah blah blah" state of mind entitled gamers like yourself are in. Nobody hates on Bethesda the amount people do with HG and I know for a fact that they aren't a Triple A developer and should not be treated as such, the dev team is quite small and thus falls into the independent side of developer for me. I'm not trying to justify what they did yes NMS was pretty goddamn bad when it came out and I blew 100 Aud on the thing, all I'm trying to do is try and get people to stop feeling like they're entitled to nothing but good games
xXatomic2009Xx But the public is entitled to nothing but good games. That's what they pay for. If a game isn't good then it usually doesn't sell well. Look at the shit storm Ubisoft got into over Assassin's creed. And everyone rags on Bethesda for the glitches and unstable games they produce.
If you're willing to pay for utter shit, that's on you man, but just because they're a small developer doesn't mean they get a pass on making a game that's an obvious alpha just because they're a small developer. Scott Cawthon, whether or not you like the FNAF series, at least produced actual games for the public and he is certainly a small indy developer. Yacht Club Games has come out with Shovel Knight and they are certainly not AAA level.
You take the attitude that it's ok if the game is shit, you might as well be paying for Mighty Number Nine and enjoy that shitburger because you aren't entitled to a good game when you pay for a good game right?
Eh...... somewhat promising. What I would really love is a more varied environment set - I want beaches, genuinely tall mountains, actual forests. I know I'm asking for a lot - and given the procedural nature of the game, the hand-crafted environments I would want are probably never going to happen... but the main reason this game disappointed me was the drabness of most planets. Yes, each one was different (although more than a few looked very similar during my 20+ hours with the game), but the differences were, I felt, mainly in colour. They felt too samey. If they give actual side-quests and better ship combat - and, perhaps, procedurally generated dungeons and caves and lost ships to explore..... I would consider coming back. I know I'm asking a lot from a small team, and I don't think they can realistically fix it and give us the game we all hoped No Man's Sky would be.
My thoughts exactly. But this is very possible with procedural generation: look at minecraft.
Oh look, they copied Subnautica, how cute.
daniel wright aww your a cute one
To be fair, the base building mechanics are pretty much spot on identical to Subnautica.
To be fair, modular base building isn't exactly unique to subnautica.
+Cao Cao To be fair, besides the voxel room building, the base building and parts (besides crafting stations and plant farming types) is pretty much identical to subnautica.
thought the same. All they did was a copy. Rymid Resa was earlier and the inventory system was taken 1:1 from another older spacegame (forgot the name) - not even the equations were their own. They just copy from everywhere and pretend to inovate. This thing is dishonest from the A to the Z
ehh if they add building in space then maybe l will come back but for now it will sit there and collect more computer dust
you can build on the freightors
Brendan Forish you can? I didn't see anything about it
+Scott Langdon you just go up the stairs and head backwards to the comand room. There will be a door that opens, and inside you can biuld your base inside the freighter
Scott Langdon They don't mention it. Theres lots of new additions they don't mentioned, building of frieghtors, wingmen that show up during pirate attacks, bounties are far more common, color pallets have been changed...
they show you in the trailer for the patch
Single player = boring.
There is no action you can take that has any impact on anything.
It's a closed system so it doesn't matter how infinite the universe is, it's still just you and a bunch of NPCs.
A story driven campaign type game is nice in single player because the story is what you're after.
Not a base building exploration/survival game where the real ultimate goal is to explore and become the best in the universe, you're already potentially better then every single NPC from the first second so what's the point?
Welcome to 90% of all video games. Your point or are you just a spoiled snob?
90% of all videos games are survival adventure games with less than half their promised features on launch?
Well dang.
No 90% are single player. Stupid assumptions like this are why you are disappointed. HG promised nothing. Not one dev said "what we are about to talk about is confirmed for launch". You made an assumption and deserve the dissapontment. Don't be a moron in the future.
Haha, I didn't buy the game. I saw through the double speak from the beginning.
When someone who is reporting on the features of a future game asks a developer of that game what those features will be, there is a reasonable expectation for the developer to relay correct information.
People like you who call that an "assumption" and assert that it is the costumers fault for believing a company's word during advertising are why this behavior in the industry is normalized and why said companies get away with out right lies.
Hold producer's feet to the fire in the future, moron.
Nudibranch However it is also a reasonable expectation that things are subject to change. They have to release eventually. If they were intentionally misleading that would mean 3 things.
- They would have dropped support and ran with their money.
- The ASA would have taken action with their invesitagation
- There would have been a class action lawsuit.
Everything points to them simply being overzealous about what they could achieve in 4 years and running out of time. Nothing points to them intentionally misleading people.
1. Take a look at the timeline of their internal build on SteamDB, and you'll see that, over the past few weeks they have been constantly working on the game, they just didn't push those upgrades to public.
2. Photo mode was in last version, but it says something like "hide UI" or "enable UI" instead, and didn't come with a warning.
3. Some of the people might keep the game because they are too lazy getting a refund, for me, and those who actually love this game, NMS is fine for what it provides at launch, but base building is of course a good addition. Think of before the game launch, in interviews Sean says that you can't build things or customize ship, but now, you can, aka you get more than what they initially promised.
4. This game is getting closer to Starbound after this upate.
If this is truly the "foundation" of more to come I think that I am interested, it is leaps and bounds from where it was before. I think they've set a good tone by adding features to multiple aspects of the game instead of just going wild on one feature or two.
its nice but i think its a little late for the game
Yeah, it only took six months to patch a game into actually making it barely a game. I am so tired of this "Eh, we can patch it later" bullshit. This crap really needs to stop.
Meh, it's only a video game, I don't care about the ethics of it. If it's fun I'll play it, if it's not I won't
David Roberson 3, almost 4 months. Not 6.
"I don't care about the ethics of it" --Heinrich Himmler
invalidusername lol
i knew it
Topics of conversation to avoid with the family this holiday season: Politics, Religion, No Man's Sky.
I do like the direction they are taking it, one or two more sizable updates and there might be enough there to warrant buying it.
I would love to see them turn no man sky around and be a shining example that no matter how bad a game is at launch, thanks to being in the digital age it can still grow into something great.
Actually the base building feature didn't really came out of nowhere, I have seen a developers video shortly after release where they announced this.
not to mention is was asked for by the community
NMS has a community?
Was istdas You tried to be funny, try again.
yeah, those 2 dutchmen and that one from canaada said they like it. From 3 million sold copies 500 still play it. So yeah,. it has a "community" of a few dozen stoners.
nice convoluted username you got there. Do you take NMS personal?
I do still have the game... Because Steam wouldn't refund me :/
Same for me. I just uninstalled and wanted to forget about it. Still not great after this update by the looks of it, but it's difficult to get any worse.
Preordered it one day before launch, played 60 minutes, knew that it wasn't worth it, refunded, pirated it, played 6 hours, knew that it wasn't even worth pirating.
Same, but I still refuse to play it.
I will not touch that game unless you can play it with others and we have all the features promised in the game trailer.
I got tired of scrolling passed it in my list so I removed it from my account after they denied my refund. I watch vids to see if I will ever regret that but not so far.
Daiyousei7 A bit extreme, and you won't regret in a long long time ;)
By the time they release all the missing features I'm sure another game will take it's place.
Your tone and enthusiasm in this makes me think only if it's £5 is it worth getting, and probably not even then
you can you know... put numbers on the ground... and scare people... * me- puts number on ground * people- AHHH!!
Isn't this game all about traveling across the entire galaxy? When are you ever going to come back to a base?
Whenever you want. You can teleport back from anywhere, or just have your base be in a freighter and take it with you.
^^^^ new level of fanboy found. "you can teleport from anywhere" nope. "have your base be in a freighter and take it with you" you have a wild imagination
Easy... You have Teleporters.
It's going to be a matter of adding things to make you want to stay in system long enough to make having a base useful.
Wait...they've added a 'survival' mode in a game that is...already about surviving? Are Hello Games still trolling us? You start the game separated from your ship, and that's all. Everything else is the same! And how can you have 'Hard mode' in a game of this nature? Does it depend on whether you start on a hostile planet, or not? What if you start on a tranquil, peaceful planet? In such a case, what would be the difference between that mode and playing the game normally? Where's the extra challenge and jeopardy?
sulijoo Maybe less ressources, energy drop faster...
As MrHunter said, it's definitely just tweaked settings. You get less resources out of nodes, there are less nodes, creatures do more damage, have more health. And most likely, you consume energy at a faster rate. Making things super amazing, and definitely not tedious af.
It's gonna be so cool in 2020 when the full versions of No Man's Sky and DayZ are finally ready.
Speaking of not having time for everything out, are you going to follow the herd and throw some Planet Coaster content at us, Scott?
And in 2020, we'll need it.
there are five things no mans sky still needs that would bring back pretty much everyone. 1. Multiplayer 2. Player factions or some sort of pvp 3. breed- able creatures/pets 4. expand and add more tech and building features 5. a more substantial reward for reaching the center of the galaxy (Like some coruscant like planet which acts like a hub for everyone.)
I don't own this game, will probably buy it when it's cheap enough, but really... ? This just looks like a spaced out Subnautica now.
:D so they havent completely abandoned us
there too desperate though.
Why would they be desperate? They made a ton of money, like a ton. If they wanted to they could have abandoned the project and live like kings for the rest of their lives.. They didn't of course, which does inspire some degree of confidence that they will hopefully continue updating the game and try to recover what they have. Hopefully that in a year or so it will at least be fun to play.
XxTheProElitexX I'm saying deparate because they COPIED another game
+The Hyper Cube What game? Subnautica? Lol.. Subnautica did *not* invent base building.
XxTheProElitexX Look at the DESIGN of the bases.
So if you play in creative mode, can someone in survival mode see your base?
I think it was smart of them not to say much about this update. Talking about future functionality was how they got themselves in trouble in the first place.
... youre getting there... now just need everything Shawn promised
I dont think its fair to judge at this moment.. its called the FOUNDATION update for a reason. Fuck Sean Murray and Fuck Hello Games for the bullshit and silence, but honestly it's way too early to tell if its salvaged or not. Give it 6-9 months, then it will be fair to make a judgement wether it was salvaged or not.
In 9 months we might actually get aliens that don't just look at their Ipads when you walk in a room! :D
Njiggasynthesis gonna give it a year and see whether all the features promised are in the actual game. I'm so pissed off that we didn't get all the features promised. factions we could Join and do work for giving us a real purpose, large fleet sized space battles, ships with diffrent playstyles. none of this was in the actual game and not even multiplayer and to be honest I never expected NMS to be multiplayer but hello games still hinted that it would be. I mean sean did say that u could meet other players in the galaxy trading and shit but it wasn't in the actual game. overall the foundation update is cool and all but I'd wait another year to see if the game is better and improved and basically being the game that it shouldve been at release
Njiggasynthesis Yup, 1 update doesn't make it worth spending your money on and if you are one of those who got a refund= Hell no! Wait 6-12 months and wait and see if they will be able to make the game they promissed.
Its called the foundation update because this is still an early access game.
***** An early access game that got a full game release. If they had advertised it as early access no one would have batted an eye, but they didn't.
I have 165 hours in the game, still have fun, not as much, and some of the things were disappointing ( like once you get atlaspass and turn out to be useless), but I,m not a spoil gamer who ask perfect games out of the box. yeah it's repetitive, but that's the point, exploration is repetitive. I liek it more no because It's relaxing. You play late at night before going to sleep. This update is going to be great.
Too little, too late. Not touching that game again, ever.
Yes unfortunately
I am pretty sure you are not speaking for HG. You are also probably one of the last person who plays NMS because he still doesn't want to admit he got screwed over lol.
Stan Knight you're probably right or he's just a typical internet troll with nothing helpful to contribute, ever
I starting to think one reason I love watching Scott, is his corniness.
'You can unlock the secrets to construction at my planetary base.'
"I expect to see you there soon.'
AND
'You know I kinda thought the doors on this space station were a little smarter than the average doors in sci-fi'
BTW alpha passes supposedly gave extra items sometimes. Upgrades and such.
Wasnt the whole point of this game to explore the galaxy instead of settling down?
That's why you can go back to your place from any star system and you need resources to keep expanding.
It doesn't have the inconvenience of Minecraft for example.
MalfunctionM1Ke well, the developers clearly advertsied it as just an exploration game and delivered an exploration game...and somehow everyone got mad that it was just an exploration game. Basically, fuck hype-culture.
Let's it wasnt exactly what sean said.
We are still missing tons of features , and the planets still are repetitive and boring , and the grind is still more than exploration.
And the center of the galaxy is ....... anti-climatic
your assuming your not allowed to leave a planet once youve built there. that is stupid.
Brick ByBrick
on your period buddy? i see a bullshit argument and im calling it the ability to put down a base does not stop you from exploring.
Surprised the official update video isn't drowning in dislikes... But then again, it's not CoD!
Altho, mad props to Hello games for not just packing up and ditching the game altogether, but instead still working on it. Despite it's extremely bad reviews.
Beating a dead horse still constitutes a continuation of their bad decision making.
Nice overall improvement, though, the game will need much more than that to get me interested. Hopefully they will keep adding to the game.
Here's some improvements or things that I wouldn't mind seeing:
- Add lava and/or volcanoes
- Add frozen water that you can break
- Different bodies of water (rivers, waterfalls, lakes and bigger, deeper oceans)
- Add real dense forests
- Remove the identical yellow looking zinc flowers spread out across the universe. The same flower should not appear on every single planet. That one really bothered me lol...
- Add realism. Generally, planets that are far away from the sun should be colder than planets that are closer.
- Make different size planets, they all look roughly the same size.
- A few planets should have rings
- Make the NPCs/races more interesting, make them move a bit, make them do things.
- Some planets should be totally undiscovered by the NPC races. It is extremely unrealistic that every single planet in the universe has alien structures equally spread out on the surface of each and every single planet.
- Make looting and scavenging more interesting. There is no fun in finding the same items over and over.
- Add unique and rare things that can be discovered. Whether it's a rare helpful item or a rare site. People might play longer in hope of find these things.
- Deeper crafting system. Clicking twice in your inventory is not a crafting system.
Personally, if they implemented some of these things, it would make the game more fun for me.
What would you guys like?
"The time to penis is pretty fast", I laughed pretty hard
I tried to refund the game..
8 times..
So did I. They didnt becuase i played 19 hours. Which admittedly was me trying to see the catch of the game at my own speed. Sadly i smelled something foul and looked up a 'center of the universe' video, and was too late... :/
Game was released on GOG. So there was no-DRM version from the start. Pirating to substitute demo version was extremely easy.
Stupidest people usually angriest people.
After playing pirated version I decided that game have some charm and bought it on Steam for easy updates.
lol you played 19 hour and tried to refund, life doesnt work like that
AKN Concept The problem is that 2 hours is absolutely nothing nowadays, im not happy with a game unless i can play it for at least a hundred hours before getting bored.
For example: 409 hours in Skyrim. 1321 hours in Fallout 4. 299 hours in Subnautica. 586 hours in Starbound.
I have played NMS for a grand total of 37 hours, that's barely more than i've played World of Guns: Gun Disassembly..
Lol... Then what's stopping people from playing a well made game that's only 6 hours long then just refunding it? 2 hours is the limit. You ran over it, that is your fault and your to blame. Simple.
didn't refund (was being hopeful and lazy), update looks interesting and will probably keep me interested for a week or so until I get bored of grinding units and ores just to make my base slightly bigger. Good thing they went with the building aspect since that allows for more creativity content (although limited) and can keep players around longer than a grind to get the best ship/equipment.
Knight Blackni I think my favorite part of the game is just flying around and seeing what ridiculous looking things the procedural generation can cobble together.
Knight Blackni It takes 50 iron to craft most of the necessary building blocks but if you consider that grinding ores, that's quite an overstatement.
The whole game is about grinding ores. You collect ores to facilitate the collection of ores. Now they've added collecting ores to make a base for collecting ores.
Until proven otherwise, I don't expect anyone coming to where your base is will even be able to see it.
Photo mode - You have to go through menus to get to a completely normal "hide his" option that could easily be bound to a key for quick screenshots?
I think that this Updated is relativly cool, I mean it adds some new Features to the game and I actually kinda enjoyed No Man Sky , just for a few hours but it was nice and relaxing. So I definitly going to checl on it once again :) And everybody says thats exactly the same like Subnautica, well is that bad? And Subnautica didnt inveted it and it clearly has it on touch in No Man Sky. I might have some relaxing hours with it once again :D
I don't disagree. I think the problem was people didn't spend a year swallowing hype promising a few hours of relaxing resource management. They were promised all kinds of stuff and what they got was dull gameplay. And that's not to mention they paid $60 for the honor.
You know what? I'm gonna buy this stupid game just to see if it actually sucks as badly as everyone on the internet says it does or if this is a premier case of grown adults acting like children because that's what people do, now.
*good luck*
BlueDudeGaming Already started. Steam. Doesn't seem horrible in the first hour or two.
just bought it on a sale, its actually good LOL, too many man childs shitting on the game
a children
Try "demo" from PirateBay first ;)
I got to 20 hours and wanted a refund, but to be fair the new additions make it closer to fun rather than a grind fest. I'm a big fan of "base" stuff as I'm more of a "settle down and make a factory" than "I will fine the rarest thing!" player.
The problem with base building is that there's no real point to doing so. You go to one planet, mine some resources, and then move on to the next planet - never to return. Seeing how you can buy a freighter and build a base inside of it, nobody is going to bother making them on planets. Since there are infinite planets, you can't claim there is a point to "saving" a particular planet as worthy of putting a base on.
so tell me, doesn't this almost make no man's sky a space equivalent to subnautica??
But whats the point if the main part of the game is to go from planet to planet? Why would I wanna spend all this time building a base on a planet only to have to abandon it to move on with the game?
Synystr7 You can create teleporters to teleport to different bases.
It's just like Starbound in the sense that you have the goal of exploration, but if you find a place you think would make a nice home then you can settle down. Just because you have to explore doesn't mean you can't build a home.
stacking 1 in your suite 5 in your ship 10 in your freighter
They really need to fix the meteor pop-in distance, that's something drastically different from the early gameplay they showed off and it makes space feel much smaller when you can't see distant asteroids/meteors and fly to them.
I might do a "is it fun yet" series on my you tube alter ego channel XD
+Dylan Watts also worth looking at X-Rebirth in the same way
Will do, looks pretty good and the reviews look pretty unbiased on how much it's improved
what's the channel name? I want to check it out.
I'm still tiny, only 16 subs, but Ars Techne
People were like "I WANT BASE BUILDING"
They add base building. People say "Disgusted to see base building in an exploration game, wtf were they thinking"
Sigh.....
Problem with the update is that the game became an even worse grind hell. Rebalancing made things bad for new players, since it's harder to find fuel, which makes everything even more annoying. And even though the Fallout4-esque base building is cool, the huge fetch quest to unlock everything is just grind for grind's sake - most things in the update are useless, except for a few plants that can make you rich after you dump a lot of time on it.
They should really fix all the things that annoy the hell out of the players (menu animations, delays, slow transitions, etc) and make a proper balancing pass. They also need to drop the fetch quest mentality. With that, maybe it'll be a decent game in around 6 months..but definitely not worth the full price.
Its good that this game exists because it is an interesting case study of what not do as developer. number 1 lesson honest marketing matters, number 2 do not publish an unfinished product, number 3 if your game is crap people will tell it is crap
Literally ripped off Subnautica :O
oh I changed my mind I really wanted to buy this game I refunded off steam again ... NOT. I can't stand such boredom like this game it would destroy my mind and soul
This would be pretty damn cool if Space Engineers didn't already exist
Keep in mind what they said about this patch, it is a foundation for future changes. This is only the beginning. I don't think we'll ever get the full game that was promised over the development cycle because of how many things were promised, but we'll get something closer. Only time will tell.
a step in the right direction but perhaps too late for this games future, sorry Sean
So you can build a base to get aliens to farm resources for you? Then what?
Exactly. Still seems like there's no worthwhile goals in this game.
you hire recruits who give you missions to get new building designs too.and in the next update they say you can use the recruits to get wing-men
bottom line- they also get you more different availibe things to build-which is actually good crafting and fun.you unlock new things for your base building pallete.
Oscar Smith-Jones
Yeah yeah cool. But there's still no goals. Minecraft already did the 'build whatever you want with no storyline' game type 1000x better years ago.
This game didn't need base-building, it needed something to make you feel a sense of accomplishment. It needed an end instead of simply 'explore this ugly universe until you get bored of seeing the same shit over and over'.
Minecraft even had a satisfying ending.
@Sean Murry - Whats the color that first comes to mind when you think of space? "Red" ... ... ?!
Just a heads up for anyone starting this update. It can be buggy. For example, if you build a base on a planet with water (which I originally did) then when you do one of the first missions a base member gives you, there is a chance that he will send you to find something in a base underwater. This would be fine, except that the base will not have a door and you cannot get in, thus cannot continue. Only solution, build a new base on a new planet.
Also, the game really needs a feature where you can find out what race's are in each system, only because in order to continue the base building quests, I need a scientist which can only be a Korvax and 10+ systems later, no Korvax. I know this isn't a bug but this bad luck (and earlier bug) is making all of the missions feel almost as tedious as the base game. I like that missions, however mundane, add some level of purpose to what you are doing but the tedium makes it feel just a pointless as it originally did:/
Either way, the update is a welcome addition.
The update is really good
Did you notice that the terrain and graphics are better as well?
Paradise Decay yeah. in the patch notes it says terrain generation gas been improved to make planets more unique and interesting. a good thing due to the fact that originally most planets were exactly the same bar the colour and atmosphere. still, im so glad i stuck with this game
Wow. Usually most developers tend to set the "foundation" BEFORE you freaking release it to the public!!!!
Permanent base building? Player structures? Gigantic player-owned spaceships? Wow, that's actually everything I hoped that game would have.
This kinda reminds me of subnautica's foundation models interesting however looking worse great still not buying the nms. Would you get on a train that just crashed at 900mph into a solid brick wall?
Then the No Man's Sky update Hype Train may be for you!
Xxandy2003xX what the hell are you even trying to say man
xD... i mean, i know what he is saying but..... i agree, what?