My husband's great uncle, Charles Richardson Allen, was #3 in the photo of the 9 deceased men. Years ago my father-in-law told us they were informed that when the men were found on the lifeboat, Charles's hands were frozen to the oars. He had only worked on the ship for 2 weeks and was 19 tears old. i have been doing genealogy & he was one who I had a great deal of interest. I enjoyed your presentation very much and will be keeping my ears open in case the ship is found.
The men in life boat #4 is a major reason I found her. Your husbands great uncle's ship is part of Rondeau. I posted my video on here. Watch it, then go on google maps satellite like I show in the video. She is leaking her cargo out the East side.
He was breaking ice on the starboard aft by life boat 4 when she went over. That is why they had no coats on. I think they were braking ice for 3 or 4 hours before they lost it on the turn. Very brave men!
Very interesting take on this mystery. My only addition would be the steward having knives in his possession is easily explained. As anyone in the food industry would they’ll you your knives are your stock and trade, and they are expensive. He not have been inclined to leave them behind.
Sounds like a job for a side scan sonar! Sailboat towing a dinghy with side scan. I am in Michigan, and live 6 miles from Lake Michigan. My plans are to buy a sailboat before I retire, and side scan every route I sail. I'll look you up when I come sail Lake Erie! Sounds like a fun adventure to search. New subscriber #168
I live in Rochester, NY, on the shores of Lake Ontario. It's fascinating to see such a large ship disappear in the relatively shallow waters of Lake Erie. This story is intriguing, for sure. I can't help but wonder if they'd actually try to make it all the way back to Conneaut though. Seems like a long voyage in rough waters. While I'm no sea captain, I'd guess they'd try to go upstream, into the wind if they were struggling with water breaking over the back of the stern. It stands to reason the best thing to do in that situation would be to turn the bow into the wind to break the waves. Of course, it's also possible the boilers got flooded, leaving them with no power, and the ship floated some distance before sinking. Of course, it seems that the ships crew would have been wearing different clothing. Or maybe it hasn't been found because the boilers exploded when they got flooded, and broke the ship into pieces which is why it can't be found. Or maybe it's upside down underwater, so the keel is the only thing visible. The profile from the bottom side could look like a sandbar or natural formation.
Mark. Very interesting video. The captain, Robert McLeod, my great uncle and namesake, and his brother John McLeod, also my great uncle were both licensed captains. John had layed his boat up for the winter and was serving as first mate. My grandfather, Hugh McLeod was scheduled to take the first made slot but had not yet layed his boat up. I have several theories myself and have a great deal of research documentation that DR. Frew used complied by my late aunt. I believe one problem in finding her is that when she finally went down her topside was encrusted in ice and the extra weight caused her to capsize as she went down. With her superstructure buried in the mud, only her smooth bottom would be facing the surface presenting let area to snag fishing nets, etc.
Mr. McLeod, Wow! I am quite honored that you found my video interesting. I had not considered the fact she may have capsized and rested superstructure down. That certainly would explain the lack of snags, and may also explain some difficulty in locating using sonar. If sediment has accumulated along side would look like nothing more than a large bump. Would love to chat with you more. You can reach me at mark.allenbaugh@gmail.com.
Hello Mr McLeod, in your post you mention that you have a lot of documentation about the loss of the ship. I know that this disaster took some of your family members and I respect that. My question is, would it be possible for you to share some of that information? What I am looking for is, if any watch was recovered, someone had noted the time the watch stopped.
My ancestor was Eugene Wood. Was the Chief Engineer and apparently washed up on shore 6 months after the sinking. Not one of those found dead in the lifeboats.
So, how about an update? I see the video is 5 years old. Have you done any searching? Have you eliminated any areas? Any other clues that have come to light since your last video? I’m very curious about this wreck and really love a good maritime mystery! I would like to hear more about the ship and your quest in locating it! Great job with the video and I’m looking forward to an update!
Not much in the way of new news on this story but you should check this video if you want a more recent version: ruclips.net/video/RDG_A1jL7t0/видео.html
This man has some very good ideas. But it goes to show that this boat is not where it is supposed to be on the bottom of the lake. That's why it took 73 years to find the titanic. That boat was 14 miles off course from where it was supposed to be
I grew up in Port Stanley. I am a history nut, so this story has always been a favourite of mine. We used to swim and play where she loaded up. It's a public boat launch now. The cement pillars are still there though. I would love to see her found! Best of luck!
hi Mark, I just watched this on my sailboat while in Port Dover harbor. I've known most of this story for years and am fascinated by it as well. I solo sailed from Buffalo to Ashtabula last week and think about the MB2 whenever I go thru the waters off Ashtabula. Ironically I sailed from Erie to Ashtabula pretty much over where u think the wreck is. I would be fascinated if ever found, but then again the mystery will be gone. Anyway thanks for a really great presentation
Very interesting video! I've had a new interest in shipwrecks, especially in the great lakes (I live about 2 blocks from Lake Michigan myself). This wreck reminds me a lot of the MS Estonia, in that the door failed and allowed water to flood the ship during stormy conditions. Great job on the video!
"Oh the tails the sailors spin of mermaids singing in the wind, the sinking of the Bessemer, the drowning of the crew. Memories of waters crossed, of women won and fortunes lost are etched upon their faces and faded old tattoos." -Pat Dailey, The Great Lakes Song
Mark, I am fascinated by this ship, and also by the 11 lost locomotives from the 1850's (Clarion, Concord, Essex(?)..). I have a boat at Fairport with H'bird 899c SI sidescan sonar, and I'd be very interested in collaborating with you on a search effort... I think your theories have significant merit. I also think that the lifeboat found 15 miles off Erie on about day 4 is a vital clue - combined with wind reports from 12/1909, a decent estimate can be made which could corroborate or tune your estimates...
This is very interesting! I just recently became aware of this story through the National Museum of the Great Lakes and have been doing some research myself (just for the sake of learning more about it). I hope you find it and wish you the best of luck on your endeavors!
When bodies are submerged and freeze, when they start to warm up, the corpse bloats as gasses accumulate from normal decomposition. Eventually the skin ruptures to allow those gasses to escape. It’s very possible that the “wounds” were caused by the escape of gasses because the skin simply splits open. (Sorry to be so blunt.) This is pretty common in drowning deaths.
I own a copy of ghost ships I’ve read many times. Had to pull it back out and read that chapter again. I do find the mention of the “new” No. 2 touching en route to rondeau interesting. However you make an extremely strong case for the American side of the lake. I look forward to any new information as the wrecks of the lakes have been an interest of mine since grade school. Heard The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and wanted to learn more now I have stacks of books. I may try my hand at ascertaining her location
The sands and silt in lake Erie are still shifting East/Northeast with the currents, prevailing winds, and dominant fetch. The green circle should be moved toward that direction one diameter towards the diminishing sediment basin which would have still been there 100+ years ago but is filling in even as we speak as it buried the Bessemer already. That's how such a large ship disappear s in lake Erie. Good presentation.
Good video and interesting reasoning. We were just discussing this vessel on FB. I am not sure I agree with all of it but some great research nonetheless. The S.S. Jack, which was an upbound freighter and not a tug, likely struck the William H. Stephens wreck in 1932 though. The Stephens wreck lies 35 miles SW of Long Pt. right along the shipping lane that the Jack would have been on. It's wreck shows signs of being hit by a vessel; the bow is broken open quite badly. Swing your 35 mile arc a little further north and you will see where the wreck lies, it's marked on the chart in an area that's only 10-20 meters deep.
Shipwreck diver and amateur wreck hunter here. This wreck has always been a mystery to me that the many NOAA and Canadian surveys for the lake charts, gas exploration, and commercial fishing back in the day haven't come across this wreck. There also have been some professional shipwreck hunters searching Lake Erie and yet, to the best of my knowledge, no one has reported finding her. In years past divers kept ship wreck locations secret for their own salvage purposes, but in recent times, thanks to the preservation laws and divers being more concerned with preserving ship wrecks than stripping them, they still keep locations of newly discovered wrecks secret to protect them from being stripped. I would suspect that this wreck may have been found and the location kept secret for this reason.
As Mark Allenbaugh points out, since Lake Erie's so shallow it does gets the roughest the quickest of all five Great Lakes, making her the most treacherous to sail on, and demanding extra respect and vigil. Another feature of the lake that compounds this, is that the wind and weather can shift in mere minutes, and I personally experienced this phenomena in 1983. I live in Erie County, Pennsylvania, in a town called North East. We're the most northern town in the state, and got our name for being 15 miles northeast of the county seat, the City of Erie, which is the home port of the famous Brig Niagara, that Oliver Hazard Perry used to beat and capture a British fleet for the first time in its long history in the Battle of Lake Erie during the War of 1812. I was 23 at the time and had a summer job running the very busy Dewy Boat launch on the beach of the same name. I can't recall the exact numbers, but I had some 60 to 75 boats in the water carrying at least 125 to 140 souls, including many women and children. I do remember it was mid-July, which is the time of the year storms can crop up in a matter of minutes. The launch could handle 5 tons, but was limited to 7,000 pound boats for safety reasons. The biggest ones needed 3 straps to lift and I had a half dozen or so approaching that size in the water, with a myriad of smaller vessels ranging from 3 or 4 ton "2 strappers," to many 12 to 15 foot fishing and recreational boats. Most of these people were going after the lake's famous walleye and Lake Erie perch, with a few with some just going out for a boat ride. The day was sunny and gorgeous with a pleasantly mild northerly breeze blowing out to sea. I loved the job, especially riding the rails the boats ran into the water on. Kids and parents alike loved the ride down into the water, giving it a carnival ride atmosphere. It was a blast, and riding them into the water was my favorite part of the job. After a busy morning getting everyone in, I settled down to sell local people pop and snacks. A few hours later I glanced up and saw an ominous sight coming in from the northwest. It was a summertime thunder storm, and it was a big one, with huge dark thunderheads billowing thousands of feet up from the storm front. Within just minutes I felt the air temperature drop dramatically, and a strong, now southerly, wind hitting me squarely in the face. I also seen the leaves of the trees were turned up, and could literally smell the rain and ozone heading for shore. Instantly I knew this was the day I earned my pay, because just a few minutes later all those souls I had in the water were on their way back in force - and fast. I managed to do what took 4 or 5 hours to do all morning in probably less than 90 minutes. I did have to instruct the owners of a dozen or so smaller boats to beach themselves so I could concentrate on the larger vessels, but I lost no boats, and needless to say that was my best day of the season for tips. Looking back, I'm amazed on how calm I was, but how scared my charges were, and how relieved they also were to get back safely on dry land. Shortly after I was done and locking up since I had to close the launch for the day, the lake was a menacing dark grayish blue, with huge white caps crashing to shore that were being pushed by at least 40 to 50 mph winds, and it was just beginning. With the storm came the inevitable storm surge, and by the time the storm had passed, it was clear it was one of the worst summer time storms in decades. All along the southern shore in our region, boats had been swamped, trees and power lines were down, and basements were flooded. The next morning it resembled a war zone. Luckily there were no fatalities I'm aware of, but the damage was extensive. Today I can honestly say nobody was more relieved than me once I had them all safely to shore. So I guess one could say I did my job, and did it well.
One thought I had. Especially since I have dove a lot of wrecks near shore. If she was struggling why would he turn around and take her back out to sea? Why wouldnt he stay with in beaching distance. I would think she would be near Port Stanley or the gas wells. I am sure there is a lot of unseen lake bottom near those gas wells. Just a thought
Statistically speaking, as every year goes by, the chance of her being near the gas wells lessens, and thus, the chance of her being on the U.S. side increases. As others have mentioned and I agree, she turned back toward Conneaut to get to a deeper part of the lake where the swells presumably would not be as large.
@@markallenbaugh5479 When u said she turned around, if she had turned to starboard, to head back, that would have put her stern to the incoming waves, during the turn. A turn to port would have been the correct maneuver if I'm following the storm tracking u described, correctly. Stupid hypothesis, I know, but we have all done stupid things when under duress! You have probably thought of this due to your well-presented presentation...well done!!!!!!!!!! -Dave
It is mind-boggling how the naval architects overlooked the fact she would be sailing on one of the Great Lakes with an open fantail wirh little freeboard to protect the Marquette from the vagaries of the inland sea. Amazing.
She's near Erie p.a. we found a trail of coal cars and followed them (4 in total). It's pretty much covered in sand except the tip of the bow. I'm not allowed to give an exact location until we confirm it next diving season
HI, I'm a SCUBA diver from Conneaut and have dove most of the shipwrecks in Lake Erie. I wish I could have dived her, too old now. I believe SOMEONE knows where she is! Great job of research. Please PM me on FB... would love to talk to you!
I believe it was a tugboat captain that drifted way off course he reported hitting something metallic. There's documentation on this incident. The captain and crew aboard was 100% sure they struck and was hung up on a sunken steel ship of substantial size. He seemed to believe he might have floated over the ship length wise because a few times he was forced to reverse then continue forward. The metallic object the tug hit was not investigated further because the tug was so far off course. They very well could have hit the ship in question. I'm not sure if the vessel was a tug I believe this happened in the early 1940s with some research this incident could be found. Rick mixter has spoke about this incident a few times.
I'm assuming that this wreck has never been found because she is buried in silt and mud on the bottom. And I assume that she is bottom side up. Bessemer #2 probably rolled over right before sinking. And no stern gate would explain her loss in a storm. And she didn't have a wireless communication on her. We have no references to go off of to locate her. We don't know where your at when you cannot radio in.
I have been working on a model to try and figure out where the ship lies. What I am hoping to find is if any watches were recovered on the bodies of the crew. If we could find out what timed the watch stopped that would give us a time frame of when it went down. Any firsthand accounts of the disaster that could be provided would be helpful.
@@mattjones1858 Would you consider sharing your information? I first learned of the ship in New Mexico in a junior high school library book I checked out in the early 70's. For some reason I always remember it.
I thought the captains watch was found with him with it stopped at 12:45..it was a silver watch and they can run up to an hour underwater. So there's that
The majority is probably swallowed up by the lake bottom like the C.B. Lockwood which sank about 15 miles west of Ashtabula 1902, so it's the same suspected area for around the same amount of time. 300ft×19ft depth and they know the location, yet it's gone. They found the biggest piece 15ft deep into the silt, the area is actually quite seismically active, on average there's a yearly 2-4 Richter quake. So the M&B#2 should be around 34ft into the silt. The hard ground temporarily goes liquid every year.
I find it incredible that they constructed that boat with no stern doors and with such a low freeboard, especially for travelling on the Lakes, with their known chop. The vessel was doomed by design, and given that they had barely survived stern flooding on a previous voyage, to have sent them out without the stern doors being fitted was, in effect, an act of corporate manslaughter. Those poor men had no possibility of saving themselves in an open lifeboat. Given its cargo, the wreck will be a historical trove of period locomotives.
This is reminiscent of the loss of the British Railways (ex LMS) ferry Princess Victoria on the Stranraer to Larne run in 1952 - again an early 'roll on roll off' type ferry with, in this case, as very low stern door (about 5 feet high) which was pooped by a following sea. How often, ironically, has a 'last run' before retirement or withdrawal for a major refit proved to really be the 'last run' - for ever? It seems to happen quite frequently.
The Herald of Free Enterprise ferry was leaving harbour with the bow doors still not shut, (a common practice at the time as it saved total turnaround time), when a wave swamped the car deck, it was seid to be only three to four inches deep but as the water shifted to one side the inbalance just turned it on its side with little warning, it was only the fact that it was still in the buoyed channel that stopped it turning inverted, a rush of water into the open stern would have potentially had the same effect with the wreck either being on its side or even upside down, this would make detection somewhat harder, the size of the lake ships is quite astounding, but then they fit the water!.
As far as the wreck of the Marquette & Bessemer No. 2? I can't imagine how she has never been found in such a shallow body of water that averages only 70 feet deep. My best guess would be that she's laying in the deepest part of the lake off Long Point which is 200 feet deep in Canadian waters, but that's far to the northeast, and she was heading northwest. It's the only thing that makes any sense, but her not being found anywhere, especially with today's high-tech, is truly baffling.
The last reported witness sightings of the No. 2 were in the Fairview Township of Pennsylvania, not far from the purple circle. One witness claimed to see the navigation lights indicating she was pointed south and headed directly towards the United States. There were no other reported witness sightings that anyone gives any real credence to after that point in time. Which was about 3:00 AM on December 8, 1909. And with the winds blowing northeast to Long Point, that would make sense how the floating wreckage, sans Boat 4 with the tragically failed attempt at survival, ended up in Ontario and later Niagara Falls in 1910. So that again helps this theory. I've also heard the theory she sank due southeast of Port Burwell, Ontario. The descendant of a fisherman in the area, states how his uncle snagged his lines and ripped his nets up something awful on a "snag" 8 to 10 miles South-Southwest of Sand Hill Park. Later observations by said fisherman to plot the snag determined she was about the rough size of No. 2. In 1910, there were also reports of a sunken railcar being seen below the surface ice, just south of Port Burwell. No. 2's Lifeboat 2 was found run around on the Ontario coast 8 miles east south east of Port Burwell. I firmly believe she either went down southeast of Port Burwell or between Conneaut and Fairview after reviewing the arguments and evidence. There's no way she tried to make it west to Rondeau. In either event, that would place the No. 2 heading southeast from Port Stanley, but really missing the mark for Conneaut. Perhaps it was either the storm messing up her course, coupled with a dead light failure as was the case with Pere Marquette 18? Or could she have been headed to Erie for a better chance at safe harbor? Conneaut's safe harbor looks about as difficult to enter as Port Stanley's, and Erie does have a larger harbor with a fair sized breakwater.
This boat has not been found in 115 years for one simple reason. This boat is NOT where it's supposed to be. Countless people have searched for this ship high and low. And I assume that most of them are searching the same areas along it's intended route. It took 73 years to find the Titanic. And that's because that boat was 14 miles off course when she sank. Back then they charted their course by the stars constellations. So just a little bit off can be hundreds of miles off. The Pere Marquette and Bessemer was no different. This boat if it will ever be found, is not where it is supposed to be on the lake. Evidently, it got blown off course in the storm. It obvious. I believe that this boat is closer to it's destination on the Canadian side.
Firstly, a smart captain with an open stern would have headed to windward, which generally would put it West of the planned route, not East of it as you are speculating; but also a severe temperature drop implies a North wind, which would put the wreck up in Canada. I know much of that side has gas wells, but not all of it and the wreck can easily fit between those wells. Thirdly, the map has a large object right on the shipping route between Port Stanley and Conneaut, just a couple of miles South of the border. What is that? Soundings on that map are in meters??
Did you have any luck? Always the possibility she might have been on a more western track than the one shown on the map, especially if captain was trying to keep the stern out of the waves, (cut a more westerly track, then come along the shore, hopefully in the lee of the wind)
Hi Mark thanks for doing the presentation. It was great. I like seeing this perspective on where the Bessesmer may end up being. I'd recommend checking this video out from the 1970's with Port Stanley historian Frank Prothero. This video also takes a look at where the Marquette & Bessemer may be. ruclips.net/video/RINEp327kv0/видео.html
I liked your point on the underwater gas wells so I think that makes it hard to see it in any of the area of the lake south of Port Stanley. You make some great points on it being northeast of Conneaut however I think due to the overall shallowness of the lake that the Bessemer IMO is in the deep dark channel south of Long Point. With the wreckage of the bessesmer also being located between long point and Erie PA I think that that could be a likely location
I like to think she's in 70' of water off Rondeau... but, they sailed out of the channel with seriously detreating conditions... and not long winds were peaking at 75mph. Having been on Lake Erie when the trip fishing trip was very enjoyable only changing to perilous in minutes, having to race back to Erieau, Rondeau Bay. it would be kool if the vessel was off Rondeau....but, I think Mark is right... she took on water early and went down, maybe an hour into the trip
I’m thinking Canadian waters too. I’ve racked my brain over it and have come to the conclusion it has to be. It was spotted over 8 hours after leaving trying to enter port Stanley. It was the customs officer who saw it. A man who saw that ship daily. So he’d would be one to believe. He said they turned west headed toward rondeau which would make sense. I don’t believe any other account of sighting as by that point it would be pitch black. Canadian waters are less travelled so it makes even more sense. Not to mention the pilot house was likely smashed as a few days later a freighter passed through a debris field matching the m and b colours. The current patterns support this as with a western wind, the current flows east along the Canadian shore, loops at rondeau and goes west in the middle of the lake. But can create an elliptical pattern between rondeau and long point. Which would wash a lifeboat that way days later. If it sank that close to Pennsylvania, that lifeboat would be way closer to Niagara. Plus a smashed one was found in long point area as well as a body. The current patterns say that’s not possible if sunk near the south shore. To top it off there’s a magnetic anomaly sitting between rondeau and long point in an area with no recorded wrecks. Far enough out that without the pilot house or sitting on the side, you wouldn’t easily see it or hit it with a laker of the day. Plus coal is known to wash up on the Canadian shore and only one ship ever went down with enough coal to keep that going over 100 years. But no one will admit if it’s there since Canada would likely limit diving on it as so many went down and were never recovered. Not to mention the money…
I have been diving out if port Stanley for 53 years there isa unidentified steelship wrecks 12 miles see out of Port Stanley sticking 40 ft out of the bottom in 60 ft of water half the hull is flat about a acre of steel on the bottom We were trawling for smelt got hung up on it we call it the Miller wrecks ,(worked for Miller at the time) The gas divers found rail cars and rail car trucks off New Glasgow
I dove the wreck3 times in 1969 visibility was standard for lake Erie about 4 feetusually it is one ft if the thermo cline moves in with the current it becomes a brail dive the first two dives decrnded on the flattened portion of the hull and the third dive decended beside the portion that is intact lswam up to the side of it with 4 feet of visibility it hits you in the face it is a big feature less steel wall the thermocline moved in so I aborted the dive i it is a dangerous dive there are live trails hung up on it In 1972 they sismic sounded the entire lake looking for all the natural gas reserves and they found everyship wreck in the lake The gas divers have found 28 ship wrecks thar are un reported I have found 9 and a ww2 airplane
The more I research this the more I think you are pretty damn on the money. I would guess it's actually quite close to it's route. The captain's watch VS what time it left tells me that it only got 2 hours away from Conneaut at most, unless somehow the captain was in a lifeboat for a while. Leads me to believe it may of sunk for a different reason. Perhaps the cars weren't loaded properly or broke loose causing it to roll and start listing. The theory that it was just QUICKLY overtaken makes me wonder how the hell the men even got in the lifeboat, in clothes. When ships sink instantly you find people in their underwear. If the ship was icing it would of become increasingly heavy and perhaps the stern just went into the water. The crew being in overalls suggests they had possibly been working on chipping ice. When physically exerting yourself you don't need a huge overcoat. The knives found could of been chipping tools taken to chip at the lifeboat's ice. When iced on the port side it's possible the captain tried to make a maneuver and the imbalanced weight capsized her. It's really a shame we don't know what happened. We can all agree that boat was not safe to sail loaded in storms.
Has anyone thought southwest of port stanley. The low was close to buffalo and when the wind shifted to northeast he coulda went further west and put the bow into the NE.
I know the lakes preserve ships steel or wood but im thinking possibly that the wreck may have collapsed down onto the hull giving a different signiture on the lake bed via sonar etc. The powder marks? Could be from the boiler(s) blowing up with cold water filling the engine room. Now if it was off the coast ie sea rather than lake possibly be flatter on the bed due to ww1 ww2 wrecks being bombed mistakenly for u boats?.
I was born and raised in Conneaut. I am interested in finding out Capt. McCloud s address on Harbor Street. I lived on Broad street and my Grand parents lived on Harbor Street which is one street over. Any info would be great. I have been intrigued by this ship for many years. My great grandparents would watch for which steamers were coming into our port and we would watch them come in.
There is also great rainbow and lake trout fishing off the point...drag a cannon ball dowrigging long enough you will loose a ball sooner or later...hmmm
If you're shipping things across any large body of water, you have to figure that weather, storms, and waves are a possibility. An open stern like that is like hitting a hornets' nest with a stick. You're tempting fate.
@Ken Elliott - you may have a point.. very much like the case where someone is digging the foundation for a new building... and they unearth a native American artifact... the first question they (usually) ask themselves is "did anyone else SEE me find this?" If not, the artifact is (usually) hidden and the project proceeds. The other option is to report the find, and then stand aside until the academic types are well and truly "done" excavating and studying the site, and remain idle until every agency that might have jurisdiction signs off on a clearance to proceed. (So.. decades at least, often without compensation for the land or wasted work prior to the find).
A state of the art ship. With absolutely no wireless communication on board. What a cheap shipping company. I would never work for a shipping company like that. Especially with a boat that is only 4 years old. And still no wireless. The owners were cheap, that's why it sank. No stern gate. Cheap
I would question the state of the art of the time when a ship on the great lakes has no wireless and no stern gate. Your constant use of your pointer is unnecessary and irritating. We can all see the ship, open stern, bodies, algae, shallow water etc., and hear you repeat yourself numerous times. We get it. You make a big asumption about the gas and oil guys finding the ship as well as numerous assumptions. Good luck with all that. Loose the pointer, quit repeating yourself, and your video would be considerably shorter. Fascinating story, presentation sucks.
@@markallenbaugh5479 Watch my video. then go on google maps. I went down there 2 weeks ago to see for myself. The bank has dropped 2 feet recently. You can see her leaking her cargo from the point. All backed by data. George Smith and the boys in life boat 4 told me the story. That and John McCleods watch that was stopped at 12:25. It covers the trip from Port to where I found her as well as eliminates all eyewitnesses after that time. Which is all of them.
@@markallenbaugh5479 Sorry for being cocky there. I spent 4 months in the head of an American by the name of George Smith from Conneaut Ohio. As soon as I can I have to visit his grave. I would love to see the knives. Anyone know where they are? I want to know who made them. Were they a gift or did he have them made? He put them in the boat, because they were his prized possessions. The boat he was working closest too. Life boat 4!
@@markallenbaugh5479 Now that you have had time to digest that, I am going to need help if you are willing. Once it is confirmed they are going to have to do something with her. I would like to see these men returned to their home towns. It will have to be done by both countries. They are not in the water anymore and I hate that people can walk on them. This is not a we win thing. This is a we need to work together thing!
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My husband's great uncle, Charles Richardson Allen, was #3 in the photo of the 9 deceased men. Years ago my father-in-law told us they were informed that when the men were found on the lifeboat, Charles's hands were frozen to the oars. He had only worked on the ship for 2 weeks and was 19 tears old. i have been doing genealogy & he was one who I had a great deal of interest. I enjoyed your presentation very much and will be keeping my ears open in case the ship is found.
The men in life boat #4 is a major reason I found her. Your husbands great uncle's ship is part of Rondeau. I posted my video on here. Watch it, then go on google maps satellite like I show in the video. She is leaking her cargo out the East side.
ruclips.net/video/9PgQvP20akQ/видео.html
He was breaking ice on the starboard aft by life boat 4 when she went over. That is why they had no coats on. I think they were braking ice for 3 or 4 hours before they lost it on the turn. Very brave men!
Very interesting take on this mystery. My only addition would be the steward having knives in his possession is easily explained. As anyone in the food industry would they’ll you your knives are your stock and trade, and they are expensive. He not have been inclined to leave them behind.
Sounds like a job for a side scan sonar! Sailboat towing a dinghy with side scan. I am in Michigan, and live 6 miles from Lake Michigan. My plans are to buy a sailboat before I retire, and side scan every route I sail. I'll look you up when I come sail Lake Erie! Sounds like a fun adventure to search. New subscriber #168
I live in Rochester, NY, on the shores of Lake Ontario. It's fascinating to see such a large ship disappear in the relatively shallow waters of Lake Erie. This story is intriguing, for sure. I can't help but wonder if they'd actually try to make it all the way back to Conneaut though. Seems like a long voyage in rough waters. While I'm no sea captain, I'd guess they'd try to go upstream, into the wind if they were struggling with water breaking over the back of the stern. It stands to reason the best thing to do in that situation would be to turn the bow into the wind to break the waves. Of course, it's also possible the boilers got flooded, leaving them with no power, and the ship floated some distance before sinking. Of course, it seems that the ships crew would have been wearing different clothing. Or maybe it hasn't been found because the boilers exploded when they got flooded, and broke the ship into pieces which is why it can't be found. Or maybe it's upside down underwater, so the keel is the only thing visible. The profile from the bottom side could look like a sandbar or natural formation.
Mark. Very interesting video. The captain, Robert McLeod, my great uncle and namesake, and his brother John McLeod, also my great uncle were both licensed captains. John had layed his boat up for the winter and was serving as first mate. My grandfather, Hugh McLeod was scheduled to take the first made slot but had not yet layed his boat up. I have several theories myself and have a great deal of research documentation that DR. Frew used complied by my late aunt. I believe one problem in finding her is that when she finally went down her topside was encrusted in ice and the extra weight caused her to capsize as she went down. With her superstructure buried in the mud, only her smooth bottom would be facing the surface presenting let area to snag fishing nets, etc.
Mr. McLeod, Wow! I am quite honored that you found my video interesting. I had not considered the fact she may have capsized and rested superstructure down. That certainly would explain the lack of snags, and may also explain some difficulty in locating using sonar. If sediment has accumulated along side would look like nothing more than a large bump. Would love to chat with you more. You can reach me at mark.allenbaugh@gmail.com.
Robert, I was at your great uncle's gravesite today,
Hello Mr McLeod, in your post you mention that you have a lot of documentation about the loss of the ship. I know that this disaster took some of your family members and I respect that. My question is, would it be possible for you to share some of that information? What I am looking for is, if any watch was recovered, someone had noted the time the watch stopped.
Thanks I really enjoyed this story you have done quite a bit of research I sat this morning with my coffee and enjoyed your presentation kudos to you
Fascinating presentation! I'm also "armchair sleuthing" for a historically based fictional piece. Thanks so much for sharing your obsession!
My ancestor was Eugene Wood. Was the Chief Engineer and apparently washed up on shore 6 months after the sinking. Not one of those found dead in the lifeboats.
I found her. Watch my video. I have all the data to back it up. Just trying to get boots on the ground now.
You think you may have found her I will dive it to get positive identification.
Did you ever dive the spot
So, how about an update? I see the video is 5 years old. Have you done any searching? Have you eliminated any areas? Any other clues that have come to light since your last video? I’m very curious about this wreck and really love a good maritime mystery! I would like to hear more about the ship and your quest in locating it! Great job with the video and I’m looking forward to an update!
Not much in the way of new news on this story but you should check this video if you want a more recent version:
ruclips.net/video/RDG_A1jL7t0/видео.html
This man has some very good ideas. But it goes to show that this boat is not where it is supposed to be on the bottom of the lake. That's why it took 73 years to find the titanic. That boat was 14 miles off course from where it was supposed to be
Very interesting video. Thanks for putting it together!
I grew up in Port Stanley. I am a history nut, so this story has always been a favourite of mine. We used to swim and play where she loaded up. It's a public boat launch now. The cement pillars are still there though. I would love to see her found! Best of luck!
hi Mark, I just watched this on my sailboat while in Port Dover harbor.
I've known most of this story for years and am fascinated by it as well.
I solo sailed from Buffalo to Ashtabula last week and think about the MB2 whenever I go thru the waters off Ashtabula.
Ironically I sailed from Erie to Ashtabula pretty much over where u think the wreck is.
I would be fascinated if ever found, but then again the mystery will be gone.
Anyway thanks for a really great presentation
Very interesting video! I've had a new interest in shipwrecks, especially in the great lakes (I live about 2 blocks from Lake Michigan myself). This wreck reminds me a lot of the MS Estonia, in that the door failed and allowed water to flood the ship during stormy conditions. Great job on the video!
"Oh the tails the sailors spin of mermaids singing in the wind,
the sinking of the Bessemer, the drowning of the crew.
Memories of waters crossed, of women won and fortunes lost
are etched upon their faces and faded old tattoos."
-Pat Dailey, The Great Lakes Song
Mark, I am fascinated by this ship, and also by the 11 lost locomotives from the 1850's (Clarion, Concord, Essex(?)..). I have a boat at Fairport with H'bird 899c SI sidescan sonar, and I'd be very interested in collaborating with you on a search effort... I think your theories have significant merit. I also think that the lifeboat found 15 miles off Erie on about day 4 is a vital clue - combined with wind reports from 12/1909, a decent estimate can be made which could corroborate or tune your estimates...
Steve, are you planning on going out this year? I'm not far from Erie PA and would he happy to support
This is very interesting! I just recently became aware of this story through the National Museum of the Great Lakes and have been doing some research myself (just for the sake of learning more about it). I hope you find it and wish you the best of luck on your endeavors!
When bodies are submerged and freeze, when they start to warm up, the corpse bloats as gasses accumulate from normal decomposition. Eventually the skin ruptures to allow those gasses to escape.
It’s very possible that the “wounds” were caused by the escape of gasses because the skin simply splits open. (Sorry to be so blunt.) This is pretty common in drowning deaths.
I own a copy of ghost ships I’ve read many times. Had to pull it back out and read that chapter again. I do find the mention of the “new” No. 2 touching en route to rondeau interesting. However you make an extremely strong case for the American side of the lake. I look forward to any new information as the wrecks of the lakes have been an interest of mine since grade school. Heard The wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald and wanted to learn more now I have stacks of books. I may try my hand at ascertaining her location
The sands and silt in lake Erie are still shifting East/Northeast with the currents, prevailing winds, and dominant fetch. The green circle should be moved toward that direction one diameter towards the diminishing sediment basin which would have still been there 100+ years ago but is filling in even as we speak as it buried the Bessemer already. That's how such a large ship disappear s in lake Erie. Good presentation.
i live in England great Britain and I'm fascinated with stories like these. i would love to search lake eerie for shipwrecks ansd document the finds
Good video and interesting reasoning. We were just discussing this vessel on FB. I am not sure I agree with all of it but some great research nonetheless. The S.S. Jack, which was an upbound freighter and not a tug, likely struck the William H. Stephens wreck in 1932 though. The Stephens wreck lies 35 miles SW of Long Pt. right along the shipping lane that the Jack would have been on. It's wreck shows signs of being hit by a vessel; the bow is broken open quite badly. Swing your 35 mile arc a little further north and you will see where the wreck lies, it's marked on the chart in an area that's only 10-20 meters deep.
Shipwreck diver and amateur wreck hunter here. This wreck has always been a mystery to me that the many NOAA and Canadian surveys for the lake charts, gas exploration, and commercial fishing back in the day haven't come across this wreck. There also have been some professional shipwreck hunters searching Lake Erie and yet, to the best of my knowledge, no one has reported finding her. In years past divers kept ship wreck locations secret for their own salvage purposes, but in recent times, thanks to the preservation laws and divers being more concerned with preserving ship wrecks than stripping them, they still keep locations of newly discovered wrecks secret to protect them from being stripped. I would suspect that this wreck may have been found and the location kept secret for this reason.
As Mark Allenbaugh points out, since Lake Erie's so shallow it does gets the roughest the quickest of all five Great Lakes, making her the most treacherous to sail on, and demanding extra respect and vigil. Another feature of the lake that compounds this, is that the wind and weather can shift in mere minutes, and I personally experienced this phenomena in 1983. I live in Erie County, Pennsylvania, in a town called North East. We're the most northern town in the state, and got our name for being 15 miles northeast of the county seat, the City of Erie, which is the home port of the famous Brig Niagara, that Oliver Hazard Perry used to beat and capture a British fleet for the first time in its long history in the Battle of Lake Erie during the War of 1812.
I was 23 at the time and had a summer job running the very busy Dewy Boat launch on the beach of the same name. I can't recall the exact numbers, but I had some 60 to 75 boats in the water carrying at least 125 to 140 souls, including many women and children. I do remember it was mid-July, which is the time of the year storms can crop up in a matter of minutes. The launch could handle 5 tons, but was limited to 7,000 pound boats for safety reasons. The biggest ones needed 3 straps to lift and I had a half dozen or so approaching that size in the water, with a myriad of smaller vessels ranging from 3 or 4 ton "2 strappers," to many 12 to 15 foot fishing and recreational boats. Most of these people were going after the lake's famous walleye and Lake Erie perch, with a few with some just going out for a boat ride.
The day was sunny and gorgeous with a pleasantly mild northerly breeze blowing out to sea. I loved the job, especially riding the rails the boats ran into the water on. Kids and parents alike loved the ride down into the water, giving it a carnival ride atmosphere. It was a blast, and riding them into the water was my favorite part of the job. After a busy morning getting everyone in, I settled down to sell local people pop and snacks. A few hours later I glanced up and saw an ominous sight coming in from the northwest. It was a summertime thunder storm, and it was a big one, with huge dark thunderheads billowing thousands of feet up from the storm front.
Within just minutes I felt the air temperature drop dramatically, and a strong, now southerly, wind hitting me squarely in the face. I also seen the leaves of the trees were turned up, and could literally smell the rain and ozone heading for shore. Instantly I knew this was the day I earned my pay, because just a few minutes later all those souls I had in the water were on their way back in force - and fast. I managed to do what took 4 or 5 hours to do all morning in probably less than 90 minutes. I did have to instruct the owners of a dozen or so smaller boats to beach themselves so I could concentrate on the larger vessels, but I lost no boats, and needless to say that was my best day of the season for tips. Looking back, I'm amazed on how calm I was, but how scared my charges were, and how relieved they also were to get back safely on dry land.
Shortly after I was done and locking up since I had to close the launch for the day, the lake was a menacing dark grayish blue, with huge white caps crashing to shore that were being pushed by at least 40 to 50 mph winds, and it was just beginning. With the storm came the inevitable storm surge, and by the time the storm had passed, it was clear it was one of the worst summer time storms in decades. All along the southern shore in our region, boats had been swamped, trees and power lines were down, and basements were flooded. The next morning it resembled a war zone. Luckily there were no fatalities I'm aware of, but the damage was extensive.
Today I can honestly say nobody was more relieved than me once I had them all safely to shore. So I guess one could say I did my job, and did it well.
One thought I had. Especially since I have dove a lot of wrecks near shore. If she was struggling why would he turn around and take her back out to sea? Why wouldnt he stay with in beaching distance. I would think she would be near Port Stanley or the gas wells. I am sure there is a lot of unseen lake bottom near those gas wells. Just a thought
Statistically speaking, as every year goes by, the chance of her being near the gas wells lessens, and thus, the chance of her being on the U.S. side increases. As others have mentioned and I agree, she turned back toward Conneaut to get to a deeper part of the lake where the swells presumably would not be as large.
@@markallenbaugh5479 When u said she turned around, if she had turned to starboard, to head back, that would have put her stern to the incoming waves, during the turn. A turn to port would have been the correct maneuver if I'm following the storm tracking u described, correctly. Stupid hypothesis, I know, but we have all done stupid things when under duress! You have probably thought of this due to your well-presented presentation...well done!!!!!!!!!! -Dave
Thanks for the interesting program mate.
It is mind-boggling how the naval architects overlooked the fact she would be sailing on one of the Great Lakes with an open fantail wirh little freeboard to protect the Marquette from the vagaries of the inland sea. Amazing.
Interesting that RoRo ferries were lost for much the same reasons decades later when doors were left open or failed!
She's near Erie p.a. we found a trail of coal cars and followed them (4 in total). It's pretty much covered in sand except the tip of the bow. I'm not allowed to give an exact location until we confirm it next diving season
HI, I'm a SCUBA diver from Conneaut and have dove most of the shipwrecks in Lake Erie. I wish I could have dived her, too old now. I believe SOMEONE knows where she is! Great job of research. Please PM me on FB... would love to talk to you!
Interesting video. Thanks for posting. A correction: the Edmund Fitzgerald sank in 1975, not 1976.
I believe it was a tugboat captain that drifted way off course he reported hitting something metallic. There's documentation on this incident. The captain and crew aboard was 100% sure they struck and was hung up on a sunken steel ship of substantial size. He seemed to believe he might have floated over the ship length wise because a few times he was forced to reverse then continue forward. The metallic object the tug hit was not investigated further because the tug was so far off course. They very well could have hit the ship in question. I'm not sure if the vessel was a tug I believe this happened in the early 1940s with some research this incident could be found. Rick mixter has spoke about this incident a few times.
Very interesting, thank you.
I'm assuming that this wreck has never been found because she is buried in silt and mud on the bottom. And I assume that she is bottom side up. Bessemer #2 probably rolled over right before sinking. And no stern gate would explain her loss in a storm. And she didn't have a wireless communication on her. We have no references to go off of to locate her. We don't know where your at when you cannot radio in.
By now the hull may have collapses. It it both sunk into the mud and collapsed, it could be much less visible than you think.
The W.C Richardson 5 lives and the Clarion 15 lives also sank during that storm as well
I have been working on a model to try and figure out where the ship lies. What I am hoping to find is if any watches were recovered on the bodies of the crew. If we could find out what timed the watch stopped that would give us a time frame of when it went down. Any firsthand accounts of the disaster that could be provided would be helpful.
@@mattjones1858 Thanks
@@mattjones1858 What was your scorce for that?
@@mattjones1858 Would you consider sharing your information? I first learned of the ship in New Mexico in a junior high school library book I checked out in the early 70's. For some reason I always remember it.
I thought the captains watch was found with him with it stopped at 12:45..it was a silver watch and they can run up to an hour underwater. So there's that
@@drby0788 I found the coroner report on the first mate, the Captian's brother I believe and his watch stopped at 12:30.
The majority is probably swallowed up by the lake bottom like the C.B. Lockwood which sank about 15 miles west of Ashtabula 1902, so it's the same suspected area for around the same amount of time. 300ft×19ft depth and they know the location, yet it's gone. They found the biggest piece 15ft deep into the silt, the area is actually quite seismically active, on average there's a yearly 2-4 Richter quake. So the M&B#2 should be around 34ft into the silt. The hard ground temporarily goes liquid every year.
Edmund Fitzgerald sank in Lake Superior in 1975. Not Lake Erie in 1976. Not a bad video though.
He absent-mindedly said L Erie, but a minute later said L Superior.
Yes it is very inteaging that for 110 years it may just be right beneath the surface somewhere out there to stumble upon
I find it incredible that they constructed that boat with no stern doors and with such a low freeboard, especially for travelling on the Lakes, with their known chop.
The vessel was doomed by design, and given that they had barely survived stern flooding on a previous voyage, to have sent them out without the stern doors being fitted was, in effect, an act of corporate manslaughter.
Those poor men had no possibility of saving themselves in an open lifeboat.
Given its cargo, the wreck will be a historical trove of period locomotives.
This is reminiscent of the loss of the British Railways (ex LMS) ferry Princess Victoria on the Stranraer to Larne run in 1952 - again an early 'roll on roll off' type ferry with, in this case, as very low stern door (about 5 feet high) which was pooped by a following sea. How often, ironically, has a 'last run' before retirement or withdrawal for a major refit proved to really be the 'last run' - for ever? It seems to happen quite frequently.
Well...it's the middle of October now, so I'm guessing no luck....
The Herald of Free Enterprise ferry was leaving harbour with the bow doors still not shut, (a common practice at the time as it saved total turnaround time), when a wave swamped the car deck, it was seid to be only three to four inches deep but as the water shifted to one side the inbalance just turned it on its side with little warning, it was only the fact that it was still in the buoyed channel that stopped it turning inverted, a rush of water into the open stern would have potentially had the same effect with the wreck either being on its side or even upside down, this would make detection somewhat harder, the size of the lake ships is quite astounding, but then they fit the water!.
Maybe the Steward with the knives was using them to threaten the captain to turn around and they sank when attempting the turn back to port……..
So everyone is looking east of their route, even though the captain would have likely pointed the bow into the wind, due to the lack of a sea gate?
As far as the wreck of the Marquette & Bessemer No. 2? I can't imagine how she has never been found in such a shallow body of water that averages only 70 feet deep. My best guess would be that she's laying in the deepest part of the lake off Long Point which is 200 feet deep in Canadian waters, but that's far to the northeast, and she was heading northwest. It's the only thing that makes any sense, but her not being found anywhere, especially with today's high-tech, is truly baffling.
The last reported witness sightings of the No. 2 were in the Fairview Township of Pennsylvania, not far from the purple circle. One witness claimed to see the navigation lights indicating she was pointed south and headed directly towards the United States. There were no other reported witness sightings that anyone gives any real credence to after that point in time. Which was about 3:00 AM on December 8, 1909. And with the winds blowing northeast to Long Point, that would make sense how the floating wreckage, sans Boat 4 with the tragically failed attempt at survival, ended up in Ontario and later Niagara Falls in 1910. So that again helps this theory.
I've also heard the theory she sank due southeast of Port Burwell, Ontario. The descendant of a fisherman in the area, states how his uncle snagged his lines and ripped his nets up something awful on a "snag" 8 to 10 miles South-Southwest of Sand Hill Park. Later observations by said fisherman to plot the snag determined she was about the rough size of No. 2. In 1910, there were also reports of a sunken railcar being seen below the surface ice, just south of Port Burwell. No. 2's Lifeboat 2 was found run around on the Ontario coast 8 miles east south east of Port Burwell.
I firmly believe she either went down southeast of Port Burwell or between Conneaut and Fairview after reviewing the arguments and evidence. There's no way she tried to make it west to Rondeau. In either event, that would place the No. 2 heading southeast from Port Stanley, but really missing the mark for Conneaut. Perhaps it was either the storm messing up her course, coupled with a dead light failure as was the case with Pere Marquette 18? Or could she have been headed to Erie for a better chance at safe harbor? Conneaut's safe harbor looks about as difficult to enter as Port Stanley's, and Erie does have a larger harbor with a fair sized breakwater.
This boat has not been found in 115 years for one simple reason. This boat is NOT where it's supposed to be. Countless people have searched for this ship high and low. And I assume that most of them are searching the same areas along it's intended route. It took 73 years to find the Titanic. And that's because that boat was 14 miles off course when she sank. Back then they charted their course by the stars constellations. So just a little bit off can be hundreds of miles off. The Pere Marquette and Bessemer was no different. This boat if it will ever be found, is not where it is supposed to be on the lake. Evidently, it got blown off course in the storm. It obvious. I believe that this boat is closer to it's destination on the Canadian side.
Firstly, a smart captain with an open stern would have headed to windward, which generally would put it West of the planned route, not East of it as you are speculating; but also a severe temperature drop implies a North wind, which would put the wreck up in Canada. I know much of that side has gas wells, but not all of it and the wreck can easily fit between those wells.
Thirdly, the map has a large object right on the shipping route between Port Stanley and Conneaut, just a couple of miles South of the border. What is that? Soundings on that map are in meters??
Le Griffon, the holy grail of Great Lakes shipwrecks
She is between Turkey Creek in Conneaut and Erie Pa.
Thanks for your input. That's more or less the vicinity I think she's in.
Did you have any luck?
Always the possibility she might have been on a more western track than the one shown on the map, especially if captain was trying to keep the stern out of the waves, (cut a more westerly track, then come along the shore, hopefully in the lee of the wind)
Somewhere south of Port Burwell.
this is such a great comment section!
Hi Mark thanks for doing the presentation. It was great. I like seeing this perspective on where the Bessesmer may end up being. I'd recommend checking this video out from the 1970's with Port Stanley historian Frank Prothero. This video also takes a look at where the Marquette & Bessemer may be. ruclips.net/video/RINEp327kv0/видео.html
Thank you! Am watching Prothero now.
I liked your point on the underwater gas wells so I think that makes it hard to see it in any of the area of the lake south of Port Stanley. You make some great points on it being northeast of Conneaut however I think due to the overall shallowness of the lake that the Bessemer IMO is in the deep dark channel south of Long Point. With the wreckage of the bessesmer also being located between long point and Erie PA I think that that could be a likely location
Hopefully someone finds it!!!
I hope you see this. Would you be interested in doing this at shipwrecks and SCUBA?
I like to think she's in 70' of water off Rondeau... but, they sailed out of the channel with seriously detreating conditions... and not long winds were peaking at 75mph. Having been on Lake Erie when the trip fishing trip was very enjoyable only changing to perilous in minutes, having to race back to Erieau, Rondeau Bay. it would be kool if the vessel was off Rondeau....but, I think Mark is right... she took on water early and went down, maybe an hour into the trip
I’m thinking Canadian waters too. I’ve racked my brain over it and have come to the conclusion it has to be. It was spotted over 8 hours after leaving trying to enter port Stanley. It was the customs officer who saw it. A man who saw that ship daily. So he’d would be one to believe. He said they turned west headed toward rondeau which would make sense. I don’t believe any other account of sighting as by that point it would be pitch black. Canadian waters are less travelled so it makes even more sense. Not to mention the pilot house was likely smashed as a few days later a freighter passed through a debris field matching the m and b colours. The current patterns support this as with a western wind, the current flows east along the Canadian shore, loops at rondeau and goes west in the middle of the lake. But can create an elliptical pattern between rondeau and long point. Which would wash a lifeboat that way days later. If it sank that close to Pennsylvania, that lifeboat would be way closer to Niagara. Plus a smashed one was found in long point area as well as a body. The current patterns say that’s not possible if sunk near the south shore. To top it off there’s a magnetic anomaly sitting between rondeau and long point in an area with no recorded wrecks. Far enough out that without the pilot house or sitting on the side, you wouldn’t easily see it or hit it with a laker of the day. Plus coal is known to wash up on the Canadian shore and only one ship ever went down with enough coal to keep that going over 100 years. But no one will admit if it’s there since Canada would likely limit diving on it as so many went down and were never recovered. Not to mention the money…
For the ships owners, it's always just one more trip. It's all about money, not protecting human lives. That's the way it was 100 years ago
the steward being found with knives would not surprise me , if they are good knives I would grab them also
Why not put scuppers on the cargo deck so the water can flow overboard??
George Smith who was a crew member is buried slightly South of his Captain
I have been diving out if port Stanley for 53 years there isa unidentified steelship wrecks 12 miles see out of Port Stanley sticking 40 ft out of the bottom in 60 ft of water half the hull is flat about a acre of steel on the bottom
We were trawling for smelt got hung up on it we call it the Miller wrecks ,(worked for Miller at the time)
The gas divers found rail cars and rail car trucks off New Glasgow
I dove the wreck3 times in 1969 visibility was standard for lake Erie about 4 feetusually it is one ft if the thermo cline moves in with the current it becomes a brail dive the first two dives decrnded on the flattened portion of the hull and the third dive decended beside the portion that is intact lswam up to the side of it with 4 feet of visibility it hits you in the face it is a big feature less steel wall the thermocline moved
in so I aborted the dive i it is a dangerous dive there are live trails hung up on it
In 1972 they sismic sounded the entire lake looking for all the natural gas reserves and they found everyship wreck in the lake
The gas divers have found 28 ship wrecks thar are un reported
I have found 9 and a ww2 airplane
@@carllafrance5510 could I contact you?
The more I research this the more I think you are pretty damn on the money. I would guess it's actually quite close to it's route. The captain's watch VS what time it left tells me that it only got 2 hours away from Conneaut at most, unless somehow the captain was in a lifeboat for a while. Leads me to believe it may of sunk for a different reason. Perhaps the cars weren't loaded properly or broke loose causing it to roll and start listing. The theory that it was just QUICKLY overtaken makes me wonder how the hell the men even got in the lifeboat, in clothes. When ships sink instantly you find people in their underwear. If the ship was icing it would of become increasingly heavy and perhaps the stern just went into the water. The crew being in overalls suggests they had possibly been working on chipping ice. When physically exerting yourself you don't need a huge overcoat. The knives found could of been chipping tools taken to chip at the lifeboat's ice. When iced on the port side it's possible the captain tried to make a maneuver and the imbalanced weight capsized her. It's really a shame we don't know what happened. We can all agree that boat was not safe to sail loaded in storms.
Any updates?
Has anyone thought southwest of port stanley. The low was close to buffalo and when the wind shifted to northeast he coulda went further west and put the bow into the NE.
I know the lakes preserve ships steel or wood but im thinking possibly that the wreck may have collapsed down onto the hull giving a different signiture on the lake bed via sonar etc. The powder marks? Could be from the boiler(s) blowing up with cold water filling the engine room. Now if it was off the coast ie sea rather than lake possibly be flatter on the bed due to ww1 ww2 wrecks being bombed mistakenly for u boats?.
Huletts along the whiskey island!
So? Anything to add at this point?
39:01 Looks like paramecium.
I was born and raised in Conneaut. I am interested in finding out Capt. McCloud s address on Harbor Street. I lived on Broad street and my Grand parents lived on Harbor Street which is one street over. Any info would be great. I have been intrigued by this ship for many years. My great grandparents would watch for which steamers were coming into our port and we would watch them come in.
Unfortunately I don't know Capt. McCould's address, just the location of his grave marker. If I find out I will post here.
I can't believe, that in this time nobody has found it with cheap sonar, drones and tech.
My guess is it sank after sinking. The quicksand bottom of Lake Erie and all…
There is also great rainbow and lake trout fishing off the point...drag a cannon ball dowrigging long enough you will loose a ball sooner or later...hmmm
This ship was found a few years ago.
She is found now right
If you're shipping things across any large body of water, you have to figure that weather, storms, and waves are a possibility. An open stern like that is like hitting a hornets' nest with a stick. You're tempting fate.
On a lake with that kind of wave potential, an open stern is just a BAD design. Very bad, borderline criminal...
the zerbra musles are in conneaut lake
Guess it was never found ?
Not yet. Turns out did not have an opportunity to try. Shooting for this summer and will update! Thanks for your interest.
@Ken Elliott - you may have a point.. very much like the case where someone is digging the foundation for a new building... and they unearth a native American artifact... the first question they (usually) ask themselves is "did anyone else SEE me find this?"
If not, the artifact is (usually) hidden and the project proceeds. The other option is to report the find, and then stand aside until the academic types are well and truly "done" excavating and studying the site, and remain idle until every agency that might have jurisdiction signs off on a clearance to proceed. (So.. decades at least, often without compensation for the land or wasted work prior to the find).
Buried under sand off Long Point
This you know or this is where you think she is?
Find it!
Good video, but the term is "statute" mile.
typical company owners...What a dodgy design
A state of the art ship. With absolutely no wireless communication on board. What a cheap shipping company. I would never work for a shipping company like that. Especially with a boat that is only 4 years old. And still no wireless. The owners were cheap, that's why it sank. No stern gate. Cheap
If people had looked as hard for this one as they did for the Edmund Fitzgerald, it almost certainly would have been found.
No radio, no survivors, no last known location. The whole of Lake Erie to search.
This would be a "fun" mission for Adventures with Purpose with all their sonar and what not.
They are ass hats and unable to do this type of search.
Sad to see someone make something so interesting into a film that is so boring.
I would question the state of the art of the time when a ship on the great lakes has no wireless and no stern gate. Your constant use of your pointer is unnecessary and irritating. We can all see the ship, open stern, bodies, algae, shallow water etc., and hear you repeat yourself numerous times. We get it. You make a big asumption about the gas and oil guys finding the ship as well as numerous assumptions. Good luck with all that. Loose the pointer, quit repeating yourself, and your video would be considerably shorter. Fascinating story, presentation sucks.
This is an asshole comment, nothing to add, just bitchy critique.
Not even close! lol
OK, so where is it?
@@markallenbaugh5479 Watch my video. then go on google maps. I went down there 2 weeks ago to see for myself. The bank has dropped 2 feet recently. You can see her leaking her cargo from the point. All backed by data. George Smith and the boys in life boat 4 told me the story. That and John McCleods watch that was stopped at 12:25. It covers the trip from Port to where I found her as well as eliminates all eyewitnesses after that time. Which is all of them.
@@markallenbaugh5479 Sorry for being cocky there. I spent 4 months in the head of an American by the name of George Smith from Conneaut Ohio. As soon as I can I have to visit his grave. I would love to see the knives. Anyone know where they are? I want to know who made them. Were they a gift or did he have them made? He put them in the boat, because they were his prized possessions. The boat he was working closest too. Life boat 4!
@@markallenbaugh5479 Now that you have had time to digest that, I am going to need help if you are willing. Once it is confirmed they are going to have to do something with her. I would like to see these men returned to their home towns. It will have to be done by both countries. They are not in the water anymore and I hate that people can walk on them. This is not a we win thing. This is a we need to work together thing!
this is very interesting
any updates?