@@stanleylee5358 With enough courage, and/or armor, and/or death wish. Thread's a bit old, perhaps, but I'm sure that you will be happy to revisit this tremendous exchange.
@@harjutapa Not advertisement but being generous with review samples. Which works well for LK Chen because their excellent designs and good build quality (excellent for the price) pretty much guarantee positive reviews. It also helps that they are one of only a few affordable sources for good reproductions of Chinese swords, and are first to market (at least outside China) with good reproductions of swords from earlier eras.
@@tsmspace kind of but controversial may be the better word, many think his replicas are not in good quality, I think they are ok though, far from perfect but good enough for the price.
Just a brainstormed idea here, and I have no historical evidence to support this hypothesis. However, could the ring a utilitarian factor in manufacturing? The blades could be ran along a rod or hung from hooks for quenching multiple blades at the same time. Then hung though 'ovens' to normalize and cool. Just a thought.
Jacob Pursell You’re on the something with the “hung along a rod” idea. Maybe they created on giant mega sword by linking all the swords together and then a huge Goliath of a man would swing all the swords at once attacks to a rod or chain. Lol I think your idea is more realistic.
From history book, the ring does serve as a hook point. Also serves as a tie-down anchor to tie your hand to the sword (it is a cavalry weapon). Also, a place to hang trinket. Also has a weight balance mechanism, since you can have the blacksmith to make the ring bigger or smaller quite easy. What a multi-purpose ring.
I'm pretty sure they never did something like that, when we talk of mass production for ancient or medieval times we still talk of hand made products build in large numbers and tempering a blade was done by sight and esperience by the swordsmith so it would had been impossible to temper and quench mutiple blades toghether like that
This kind of blades are called “环首刀” in Chinese. Basically mean Ring Head Dao or Dao with Ring Head. In order to highlight that Ring attached to the grip. Straight sword with single edge blade then became one of the most classic sword in Chinese weapon history. Like Tang Dao. Although it is hard to tell the relationship between the Tang Dao and the Ring Head Dao, they still share a lot of same characteristics. Very good video, looking forward for more Dao and Jian in your channel.
20:09 Holy wow, the way the light glinted up the blade made me think it got yeeted at the most ironic moment. Really love Ring Pommels in general, and that love started with these early Dao and in a lot of cases the Jian. Makes me miss my traditional CMA days, but I’m glad that Chinese military designs are coming more to prominence since the days of Acrobatic Wushu-ified “blades” dominating much of the Western exposure to Chinese weapons. One of those cases where enthusiasm meeting the internet was a good thing, making evident the demand for accurate reproductions of historical arms of all cultures.
I bought LK Chen's "Double Dragon" Clarence Mackay Sui Dao from a sword friend. It's one of the nicest reproduction Chinese weapons I own. Such subtle attention to detail of the blade geometry.
17:20 neither would I, however I've seen a turkish horseback show where they shot while holding the sword with the pinkie and ring fingers, then using strap on the wrist transition to proper sword grip and cut the target. All in gallop. Anyway I really enjoy the longer format, your videos always leave me wanting!
I personally would love to see you cover Dadao or Chinese Broadswords. They’re basically like War Cleavers meant to basically say if you didn’t armor/shield up you lose period, and great for large sweeps that cover wide areas.
Matt Easton/Scholargladitoria has already covered one type of later era Chinese broadsword and also covered LK Chen's Chu/Han era longsword in his recent videos. You can search through all of his videos on his channel. ruclips.net/video/t5gL0KuGlDU/видео.html ruclips.net/video/y5Op4vRsXJw/видео.html
Unfortunately with the dadao you run into 2 problems. First of all the historical dadao in its roots is an improvised weapon, a scaled up kitchen cleaver, hastily constructed with whatever scrap metal that's available without much thought put into the craftsmanship. You can forget about the "luxuries" such as weight, balance, taper, and all that because those standards never existed for the dadao in the first place. Secondly, when looking at modern examples that are crafted with quality in mind, the dadao is such a straightforward weapon it leaves very little to talk about. It is not fancy, is less reliant on skill when compared to many other blades, and is certainly lacking when it comes to finess. Its devastating chopping ability comes more from momentum than blade characteristics or technique--"if you swing the damn thing hard enough it's gonna mess up whatever it hits". Sure, you can talk about the craftsmanship and blade quality and raw characteristics and how it handles and all that, but then you'd actually be judging the blacksmith and their decisions and not the weapon as a whole.
@@wor575 the one thing about dadao is that there are military fight manuals from WWII. Nothing fancy, simple and pretty good for countering the Arisaka bayonet charge. A big chunk of railroad tie brushes the rifle aside, counters to the neck. But mostly a weapon for police to easily chop off hands or heads of thieves and murderers, terrifying the onlookers
This was absolutely amazing! I loved the video! And I'm not even that interested in the Chinese martial arts weapons, with that said maybe I am more so now after watching and learning more about this 1 sword! I'm definitely going to go back and watch past videos about weapons that you've already reviewed. Thanks for all the great information and entertainment! 😁
The "Chinese martial arts" type weapons are much later than the weapons in this video. It's like comparing a Roman gladius to an 17th century rapier. Also many martial arts weapons we see are not actual weapons, but props used in operas and circuses types of performances.
Three days staff, 三日棍 Hundred days Dao, 百日刀 Thousand days Spear, 千日枪 Ten thousand days Jian 万日剑 The quarterstaff or staff is the lowest and easiest to master, The Dao takes 100 days to master, or slightly over 3 months. The Spear takes 1000 days to master, or close to 3 years. The Jian takes 10,000 days to master, or close to 30 years. (I suppose the 30 years can be a exaggeration, lets say 10 years or 3650 days) It is the time taken to make full use of the potential of the weapons, It is alike taking crossbows to arm troops instead of using bows, because it takes 3 years to train an archer, but 3 days to train a crossbow man. Not only the manufacturing cost of Jian is nearly double of a Dao when you are going to grind 2 edges instead of 1, but the amount of food you need to supply your troops during a training period which they cannot serve in the front line. 3 months compared to 10 years is lots of money, not to mention if the soldier die in action they are never going to master a Jian. (And yes, a thing to consider is the average lifespan of a soldier in service during war time) So a Dao is a design that hit the sweet spot for practical use, it has a reasonable training time while being cheaper to produce compared to a Jian. The Dao is similar to machete for firewood chopping, and the cutting motion is similar to using the shovel for farmer, which Han dynasty China is an Agricultural society, so swinging the plow or machete the whole day is already free training which the military doesn't need to pay the logistics for. Incidentally, a blacksmith would be swinging his hammer the whole day, that is similar to cutting motion with a Dao, There is a documentary where a weapon expert perform cutting worse than a blacksmith, because the blacksmith's job nature is basically swinging a hammer and hitting a target precisely. ruclips.net/video/OB5DgoW9Flk/видео.html The guy in the brown jacket is a weapon expert, the black jacket dude is the blacksmith for the sword being tested. So most drafted recruits would have decent muscle to cut with a Dao, but lack the experience of thrusting with a Jian. This is also why the Mongolians are mainly using composite short bow from the horse back, because they are nomads, kids would grow up riding horse and chasing herds of sheep and buffaloes, while hunting small games and protecting the herd from predators like wolves. so archery training on a moving horseback against a moving small target like a rabbit or wolf. So human on horseback is easy target for Mongols. It is alike season snipe hunters are employed as "snipers" during World War 1, they are masters with a hunting rifle even before military training. So today if nations are going to war they can put drones on keyboard and mouse control and the whole gamer population would do impossible feat even the military didn't expect.
Would you mind telling us the sources for your three days staff quote ? I've never heard of it and I find it very interesting historically to understand such a quote. Thanks for the info !
@@chopstickthrower930 I am a Chinese living in mainland China, and i can tell you that this saying is popular here, but the version i heard is a bit different. In Chinse, it is written as "月棍年刀一辈子枪"， means "it takes months to master a staff; years to master a Dao; one's entire lifetime to master a spear". Though in global popular culture, sword, whether it has one edge or two, has a significant status over polearms. But anyone, as long as they have some access to melee weapons, like in hema, would know that polearms are the true overwhelming weapons in history.
Gamers are especially diverse. Remote control is one thing, but robotics and AI-assisted fire control can allow gamers to perform remote operations using simplified controls. From close quarters to aerial control. Though savant-like gamers who dedicate to competency and precision is how a military can get an experimental prototype handling a high-G drone fighter dedicated to dogfights, especially if the pilot is in orbit to control for a window of time.
I was thinking Princess Mononoke the whole time because of the ring pommel, and it made me happy when Matt said that it could enable someone to shoot a bow after hanging the sword on your pinky XD
For what it's worth: In studying Chinese swordsmanship and weapons forms, I came across the following quote: It takes 3 days to master the spear, 3 weeks to master the dao, and a lifetime to master the jian. Of course, these sorts of sayings must be taken with a grain of salt, but perhaps the Chinese viewed the dao to be an easier weapon to train a soldier to basic proficiency with. This might, in part, explain why the dao eventually became the preferred weapon for the Chinese armies (alongside of economic concerns).
I've no experience with sword fighting at all, but from a guy with absolutely no experience's point of view, IF a sword has only one cutting edge surly there's less strokes used in a fighting style that uses one vs a fighting style that uses a sword with two edges, no back edge strokes needed to be learnt means less time learning OR more time to learn the style?
Really? cause what I know is "It takes a month to master the staff, a year to master the dao, and a lifetime to master the spear", I practiced swords and spear, chinese spear definitely need more training, though as a battlefield weapon, it can still beat sword even without master skill I guess you do need less time to practice spear to beat swordsman, but it have more potential so "a lifetime to master the spear" is more for duel between two spear.
@@landofwolves so yes it's quicker to learn a Dao style then a Jian style because there's less to learn. also a Sabre is a type of sword and if the Dao character's translates into knife it's a knife, so telling someone it's a type of sword, not a sword when you say it's translated name is knife is kinda silly, kind of like telling someone it's a hatchback not a car when it's called a go-cart.
@@landofwolves yes, jian is indeed more complex than dao. For spear though, long spear have less common with staff, involving less swinging and more thrusting, and thrusting can be tricky, maybe you practice shorter spear? Actully it's kind of like dao and jian, one with more swinging and other with more thrusting, and longer reach.
@@landofwolves your comment wasn't offensive in anyway, if anything mine was and for that i apologise, i should have been more clear. A Sabre is a type of sword (European Dao like sword) and a longsword is a type of sword (European Jian type sword). A sword is a type of edged weapon. but not all edged weapons are swords, a war axe is an edged weapon that isn't a sword. With that out of the way i think it's a language barrier issue (刀 doesn't just mean knife, it means the concept of a knife for instance anything knife like is also 刀), I think the Dao sword get's called a Sabre because of how they are similar and maybe how they are used is also similar, a Jian gets called a sword because in western culture a sword is imagined as a straight double edged longsword, even though there are multiple sub types of sword. as for the analogy, i mistakenly thought that you would know that a sabre is a sub type of sword the same as a hatchback is a sub type of car and is driven slightly differently then other sub types of car, that's my mistake, i apologise .
Great video, I really enjoy these videos on Chinese swords. In the review you kept mentioning the use of shields with the Dao, which is valid. However what you didn't seem to mention is use in cavalry. I had a really deep dive into Chinese literature and history a while back, and I distinctly remember the dao being talked about as the far superior cavalry weapon as opposed to the Jian. I can't remember if it was in the Three Kingdoms novel or something else. Another claim i remember clearly was the Dao was quick and easy to learn, but the Jians fighting system and schooling was much more complex.
Yeah mainly because the dao was all edge on one edge so you could just swing and chop. And if you wanted to thrust, most cavalry if not all of them were already equipped with a lance at that point. Also takes longer to make a jian
@@DiscRover I always figured the jian would have been more fragile too when on horseback, where the robustness of the dao was a real boon to it for that type of work.
@@-Zevin- That as well. And also, the robust spine and thickness of the dao would serve better as tools like chopping away brush and things than its jian counterpart
@@DiscRover That's a good point. Especially during the Han dynasty, during the expansions into the southern jungles and the wars with the Nanman. I can imagine they were used for clearing vegetation and as tools quite often.
As for the hand slipping towards the blade when thrusting the han troops could had have a strap tied to the ring pomel to prevent it from happening. This is just a speculation and there is no real evidence of this but there is a good possibility of it being done.
I was just wondering if you were actually supposed to slip your pinkie finger inside the ring pommel as you used the sword, but your idea seems much less finger breaking.
There is also art showing long tassels and ribbons attached to the ring. Why and how used is a good question but, is quite showy and common in Wushu and other martial arts.
@@rogerlafrance6355 Might be unit identification. If the artwork is to be believed, earlier Warring States period had less head protection for the common soldiers, so they are likely to have coloured bandana/turbans. By the Han Dynasty, a lot more metal helmets were used.
@@rogerlafrance6355 the flags and tassels are supposedly to draw an opponents eye to the spinning red horsehair or billowing fabric instead of the blade, but i think also style like in gymnastics floor exercise
From the perspective of a logistical practitioner from a modern military background, the ring stands out to me to be very convenient for mass storage. All you need is a wall with some dowels and you could store hundreds of blades in a relatively small area, which you can't really do with the Jian.
I think the ring could be just for easier hanging and stacking Dao up in Arsenal or in transport. Like shelves of them hanging on the wall or something. A very utilitarian purpose. Beauty in simplicity. Great vid!
Thank you Matt for delving into historical Chinese dao and jian! I have two of the LK Chen line of products in my collection and will be adding more I'm sure. These dao and jian are an exciting development for those of us collecting reproduction Chinese swords. With your knowledge and experience, your informative and positive reviews means a lot to me as a collector - that I'm making a good buy. Before the LK Chen line, the available Han jian / dao were disappointingly heavy and clunky in comparison.
I’ve always thought the pommel ring was a lanyard loop that a soldier would use to tie a lanyard to their wrist. This would help prevent soldiers from losing their swords in battle, especially if they’re mounted on horseback.
An instrument can have more than 1 head, such as the double headed stick and 9 dragon fork. It is not unreasonable to hit with the tail, such as the unclear dragon swinging its tail, and tiger tail leg in boxing.
@@MtRevDr Ancient Chinese swords, both Dao and Jian, have lots of decorations on its pommel end. It is very likely that they viewed the sword from its dressing position rather than drawing position.
@@zhenbiaoli297 - People do many things and live in many ways. My wife uses some of my swords on table stand as her jewel stand. I just shaped my trees with a jian today.
Also I like the fact that you go into more in depth with regards to military weapons havin to be more reliable, but also to be mass produced, cost efficient and efficient but also workable in real situations.
Great video! Do you think that the lack of much hand shock could have something to do with the slight forward curvature of the blade? Also, about 4 minutes into the video you mention that the number of swords in the government arsenal outnumbered pole arms. The only official Han dynasty arsenal inventory that I am aware of is the Donghai Commandery arsenal and in it the number of crossbows and Pi 鈹(Sword-staffs) actually outnumber the number of swords by a fairly large margin. The full list of the inventory is here: Bows&Crossbow: --------Crossbow: 537,707 --------Bows: 77,521 --------Subtotal: 615,228 Projectiles: --------Crossbow bolts: 11,458,424 --------Imperial owned arrows: 1,199,316 --------Subtotal: 12,657,740 Armor: --------Jia Armor: 142,701 --------Iron thigh clothing: 255, 1 pair of unique ones --------Kai armor: 63,324 --------Armored thigh clothing: [?] ten thousand 563 --------Iron lamellar armor: 587,299, --------Leather armor is 14 jin [7.5 lbs] Helmets: --------Helmets: 98,226 --------Horse armor: 5,330 Shields: --------Shields: 102,551 Polearms: --------Bronze Ge: 632 --------Spear: 52,555 --------Imperial owned sheng: 943 --------Pi sword-staff: 451,222 --------Ji halberd: 6,634 --------YoFang: 78,393 --------Duan: 24,167 --------Subtotal: 614,546 Blades: --------Sword: 99,905 --------JingLu Dagger: 24,804 --------Saw [?] sabre: 30,098 --------Sabre: 156,135 --------Great Sabre: 127 (232) --------Subtotal: 311,069 Axes: --------Iron axe: 1132 (136) Battle Carts: --------ChengYuZheng chariots, drum chariots, --------WuGang chariots:18 --------Soldier [?] ChengYu chariots: 24 --------Interconnected Crossbow Carriage: 564 --------Charging chariot: 37 --------Drum Chariot: 4 --------Battle Chariot: 1 --------[?] chariot: 564 --------[?] chariot: 1 --------WuGang strong crossbow chariot: 10 --------ZuiBi chariot: 1 --------Battle chariot: 502 --------3 wheeled soldier [?] chariot: 1 (168) --------Tracking: 9 --------High…chariot: 11 --------[?] chariot: 7 --------[?] chariot…chariot: 2133 --------Su [?] heavy chariot: 1993 --------Soldier [?] [?] chariot: 677 --------He chariot: 2 --------FeiLow temporary chariot: 2 --------Subtotal: 7174 It is important to note that some of the characters on the original document are unclear, hence the [?], and we don't know what all of the terminology in the document refers to. I would also caution against taking the numbers too literally because this is the ancient world, counting without computers is hard, and scribal mistakes are very possible. So the exact numbers are not 100% reliable. Additionally, many of these weapons would be in an unusable condition. Some of the weapons in the inventory may have been hundreds of years old by the time of the Han Dynasty, and we have other period sources which talk record inventory checks and talk about things like crossbows going weak from being strung a while and things like that. The prevalence and dominance of the crossbow in this inventory correlates to our understanding of this weapon's importance in other historical accounts, but the number of over 400,000 sword-staffs which outnumber the amount of spears seems a little surprising to me at least. I would want to see more research on the Pi to get a better idea of whether or not it really was the mainstay polearm of the Han period, or if something else explains the weapon's prevalence in this particular regional arsenal.
1) At 3:47, Matt says the swords outnumbered the halberds (Ji). He did not say swords outnumbered all types of polearms. Matt is only comparing swords to the Ji/halberd and not to every type of polearm. 2) I thought the: 24,167 Duan was the Sha, and was the "official" swordstaff with the 3 foot long blade with an oval pole (LK Chen has a reproduction of that - ruclips.net/video/FTBagvDyTk0/видео.html). I read that the Pi gets translated as either a swordstaff, or as a long, pike-like weapon that often had a blade longer than most spears (but not necessarily long enough to be a swordstaff).
My opinion about the slight forward profile is not about hand shock, although springs have effects,,, my thought is on the desired strike. In a comment above I said: Han Dynasty was larger than previous empires, perhaps armies had to march further faster so armor was used less to allow for easier travel times, therefore choice of battlefield position and resource control. Therefore, armies would be less armored needing less stabbing through armor,,, however armies would be equally capable and fast, and skilled. So the expected strike would not be a huge killing blow to the opponent, but little wrist cuts, the first available strike, and then as many of these strikes as possible in as little time as possible. So, the goal would be to get an opening, and use little energy to deliver a small wrist chop. The forward curvature might work well if the wrist chop is accompanied by a lunge at the opponent, which would mean that the body is projecting forwards slightly during the strike, making a slight forward curvature slightly better at slicing. Also, for slower attacks like draw cuts, the goal would be to INCREASE the resistance of the blade, which a forward bend would also achieve.
@@tsmspace I think we need to be careful when making blanket statements, because Han Dynasty armor would have varied a lot depending on when, where, and who they were fighting. Heavy armor for the Han Dynasty heavy infantry and heavy cavalry exceeded and was more protective than armor from earlier periods. Lighter and less protective armor for lighter infantry and lighter cavalry did exist as well. During eras of peace (eg. emperor Jing), ceramic figurines were lighter armored, whereas during eras of war (eg. emperor Wudi), ceramic figurines were more heavily armored. Here are examples of ceramic figurines and recreations of different Han era armor: Ceramic figurines recovered around the timeperiod: 2.bp.blogspot.com/-beSc0DR-dys/V8T_6-gs1qI/AAAAAAAADkc/sIFQoMelCFk65F4RT6OR-YQqqmUJ3uLQwCLcB/s1600/Han15.jpg upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Han_shieldbearers_01.jpg/1024px-Han_shieldbearers_01.jpg Examples of medium to heavier types of armor: 4.bp.blogspot.com/-1xXDpqpLu3Q/V8UKPXoBtFI/AAAAAAAADmQ/bzCDPm5sNtY3ByHzmbqyBz6UKUJ7tag7wCLcB/s1600/JSJMs3f.jpg 2.bp.blogspot.com/-L35vqfhQOhM/V8JJ7eAs-tI/AAAAAAAADS0/t8Nhoklq2NgeFOpNYVrz76_LnpUM4S9hwCLcB/s1600/Hht9ZKR.jpg 1.bp.blogspot.com/-C5UvNJalcz0/V8T_6nOjMFI/AAAAAAAADkY/pgBbs6fo4zAyFSoxcRH8WuN2awpuVtdMQCLcB/s1600/Han14.jpg 1.bp.blogspot.com/-RYYfUNVkxhc/V8USAc8GJhI/AAAAAAAADnM/OzdRYRYNwqgWtgPBWWPXdYZn3LdRc5pKQCLcB/s1600/da2f160a4f7f873043278b3bc79d4457.jpg Here is an example of lighter armor for lighter infantry: 4.bp.blogspot.com/-F7KYB_q7XNQ/V8T6MMTJbAI/AAAAAAAADjw/rLSN0zavNAQ4I_PJQj4IKxyjOZ-9iDLVQCEw/s1600/Han4.jpg
@@Intranetusa I didn't go through all those links just yet,,, but I agree, however the arsenal also included many other weapons , so I wouldn't be suggesting a complete shift in tactics, merely a potential desire for additional tactics. I"m not a historian, and of course you can assume the "I just like swords" disclaimer.
Dear Matt, I love your videos on Asian weaponry. I recently saw a great documentary on the Songhai Empire which was as rich and complex as any European empire at the time. I know they had a great cavalry and exotic auxiliary units. I've been on an African history kick and was wondering if you could do a video on combat and weaponry in the age of Mansa Musa or Songhai. Thanks!
Seems to me the dao's design is from a military standpoint, the weapon that's perfect to be issued out to militia infantry/base line soldiers. Minimalist/functional design, cutting focus, meaning it was made to be easily usable by the most basic conscript, hence the larger inventory vs the Jian. Think the AK-47, simple construction, mass production, and easily usable with minimal training/maintenance.
I was surprised that no one else seemed to be thinking about ease of training. I'd be curious to know if the rise of the dao coincided with an increase in the size of the army.
The ring in the pommel to hang it while shooting arrow is how Hayao Miyasaki put his character Ashitaki of the "Mononoke Princess" movie in his weilding. Salutations. Great channel and help me a big deal to write my novels with more accuracy.
I see where the design for Ahsitaka's sword in Princess Mononoke comes from. Very cool sword and the tests cuts were fun to see. You could try to use a big c-clamp or ratcheting cinch so you don't have to dodge bits of wood flopping around.
@@Matthew_Jensen thanks. I was also impressed with swordsages reaction to how light she is. Hopefully I'll be able to pony up the cash for this one and the frontier one. We will see.
@@erichusayn I have not spent enough time with it to have much thought on it but taking it out of the box and doing a bit of measuring, I can say it feels like a weapon. Out of the blades sold, this one feels like one you could use for fun, camping, home defense.. Not that it would be a first choice, my point is that it feels like a versatile tool that one can understand inherently. The longer dao I have feel like they require more training or thought. At least that is my initial impression.
@@Matthew_Jensen thanks again. Good to know. I should probably just order both to save on shipping. Lol. As a katana guy, I find their dao very intriguing. I've emailed with them a bit already and they seem very responsive and eager to do business, so hopefully we will be seeing more from them in the future. Have yet to hear anything really negative about them honestly...
wow that cutting test was impressive even considering the light targets, big fan of lk chen swords but I wasn't too sure about these since it's so small and light you definitely made me reconsider these swords
L K Chen had a very good idea to reproduce the ancient designs. That way the fittings are simple so you can get a decent blade for a good price. A more recent design, like a katana for example, has more parts and takes more work to put together.
Thus and so. And sword jesus did take up the dao, and explsin his followers its merits. But many turned away from sword jesus, and some worshipped the arming sword, and some worshipped the katana. And sword jesus did smack both about the face and said unto them: "watch my videos, you fucking pillocks!" And there was much rejoicing.
Interesting review. One thing I'd like to add to the "non-existence" of the guard is the fact that the sword can be used for thrusting effectively without cutting your hands, with the help of a 絻, sword string, usually attached to the pommel and tied to the hands. This makes the manufacturing of the swords easier and more economic on a mass scale, and preparing a sword string made of cloth is relatively easy on the soldiers' side. It's a win-win situation.
2 years late, but here are my 2 cents. I support the commenters that said this was binding-related, but the caveat is that it was on demand and more subtle than tying the blade to a hand. Haven't used this particular one myself, but I saw similar at 1995 World Wushu Championships, where even for presentations and comps you still added "battle" elements to your equip and uniform. Namely, like the source images you showed, you wrapped your ankles and wrists to "contain your energy" as well as adding a "tassel" or "ribbon" to your weapon, which was really part of a silk sash or cloth folded at the middle, the weapon laid upon it, the dangling ends fed through the hole. The ring on this sword is ideal for putting a sash on it like a lanyard. A Chinese competitor used a ring pommeled sword like this in an exhibition where she used it multiple ways: A) full hand on hilt with the "ribbon" used as a cloth couterweight, B) other times she would momentarily use her other hand to grab the hilt in low to blade reverse grip tight towards the guard, blade along elbow, her original hand quickly wrapping her fingers a time or two in the sash like a finger guard then grabbing again forward grip with the original hand, she'd perform a number of lungy thrusts before switching hands letting her quickly unwrap it again, C) other times she half-pommelled like you might use a Circassians Kama grabbing the hilt normally with the thumb and index and middle fingers but at the bottom of the hilt, palming the pommel/ring, gripping the sash and/or hookable feature with the other fingers on the ring, allowing for fast whiplike chopping slashes in a motion like a reverse frisbee throw, utilizing the open gap in the front lower grip to both allow the slash motion from the wrist and stop it before it goes too far, moving to the next movement using wrist twists to quickly reverse the same cut or reset the grip D) to quickly recover from the half-pommel to full grip or reverse grip knowing the sash is there to grab if you miss E) or supporting a potential dual handed padded thrust by palming the sashed ring, and F) finally and most unsafely as a way to throw/realease the sword during a swing with a snappy body turn to give extra reach as you do with a spear, holding the bottom of the sash wrapped around the left, right hand in a pinched around the sash continuing the turn and yanking the sword back into the right hand by pulling on the sash through the turn. If you tied the sash right it should've kept edge geometry, but who knows what'd happen on impact if the sash pull is done wrong or you miss the grip or... just because. Whether I could do it or not doesn't matter because she apparently thought she could. In addition to that, my own thought is that you could use the sash to bind it to any old long stick and have a spear in a pinch. And also, there's the fact their money had a hole in it to store it in pre-counted bundles.
It is a common Chinese practice to tie a scarf or silk usually red to the loop, techniques in Kung Fu utilize said silks for feints and distractions, also a few grappling moves.
In the modern context, tying red fabric is a tradition/cultural practice that means you are not a fighting school and you have friendly reasons for bringing weapons (e.g. demonstration vs. looking to beef with any other schools that are there). In practice, I find the red fabric is a pain in the ass that interferes more with me as the wielder as opposed to an opponent.
Chinese swords in popular media always always have some kind of tassel attached to the "pommel", so it seems plausible that this was the primary purpose of the ring. (Though in _Monoke Hime_ we do see Ashitaka (whose sword is essentially a dao) pull off the "draw your bow with the sword hanging from your finger by the ring" move, and it does look super-cool. 😀)
I would love to see videos about yataghans, since you mentioned them so much in this vid! Ive noticed that by the early 1800s theyre all over art work in the balkans and ive seen some interesting painting of Albanians, Greeks, and other peoples duel wielding them with long straight daggers or kiliç/shamshir type swords.
I put many things on the rings. One thing about the lack of hand guard is a lanyard rope on the ring can stop the hand sliding onto the blade. Another reason for small guard is the clothing usually is loose and can easily get caught on a big guard. I recently tore a jacket by a Western cross guard.
Matt, I think I could answer some of your question. The holes at the back of the Dao could be used for putting a cloth band for passing your wrist through, so the sword would not be lost in a battle. Han Dynasty type shield could indeed be strapped on to the forearm as a depiction from the nearby Dian Kingdom show a soldier holding a spear in two hand while also using a shield, he would look like a Macedonian phalangites. While period sources are rare, I manage to find a depiction from the Qin Dynasty. The user would be in a crouching position, holding his shield to cover his face with the top of the shield above his head and holding the sword on the back. The shields used by the Qin and Han Dynasty had notches on their rim, combined with the low stance, the notches would be able to parry swords and spears and hold them in the notch. They are probably similar in principle to the Han Dynasty hooked steel buckler.
The dao seems to be a more utilitarian style blade. If soldiers were using their sword for non-combat tasks, a robust single blade would keep better than it's predecessor.
People don't do that. It's a sword. It's pretty much rubbish for anything but fighting, you wouldn't set out to go fell a tree or butcher a pig with a sword. That's like some future historic warfare guy proclaiming "The G36 seems a lot more utilitarian for non-combat tasks. The foldable stock makes it great to sit on in two different heights..."
The jian that have been featured, indeed all the ones LK Chen sell, are all at the very top end of the lengths of those recovered, it would be nice if they made a replica of a standard issue jian but they don't. There are very few edged weapons that double as utility blades until certain 19th century bayonets, in contrast there are far more knives and heavy utility blades that double as weapons.
@@Feldscher1039 Demonstrable modern use of machetes in war would seem to disagree with you. Do you think that ancient armies had less bushcutting to do than classical ones? Or that Asia lacked jungles with thick underbrush? Rifle butts get used for all sorts of things in a modern army: knocking open cans, breaking doors, etc. It may not be "proper" in some people's eyes but any gun design for everyday use in an army can't ignore these "off-label" uses.
@@xandercorp6175 mate, a machete is made for clearing paths. It's what it's intended to do. You could just as well claim "yeah ahm but like axes are used for wood chopping huahua", well no, wood chopping axes are used for wood chopping. Fighting axes are not, because they are pretty shit at it and would break. Machetes are used for clearing a path through dense vegetation. Swords are not. That's why they use machetes for it.
I have an idea for a video: I wanna see hedge trimming using a sword. Every time I see a hedge that is in need of trimming, I think to myself, what if I had a sword and just cut at the hedge, would it work as a hedge trimmer? I want to see som serious hedge sculpting, using a sword, or perhaps pruning an apple tree using a sword. I want you to explore what sword is most suitable for the job etc. A longsword? A tulwar? I really need to know more about the art of sword hedge trimming.
The dominance of the Dao in the military was also influenced (perhaps decisively) by the much simpler basic minimum skill level needed to use it effectively compared to the Jian. There is an old Chinese saying that it takes 10 years to master the Jian, but only 1 for the Dao, with the implication that Jian masters are superior in skill than Dao masters. We need to bear in mind the modern, professional military standing armies were very rare in ancient China. There were small, elite guard forces maintained during peacetime, but for war, it was very much a numbers game of massed conscript armies. As such having the Dao as the standard issue weapon made a lot of sense as it both reduced the length of time needed to train your conscripts before they can be effectively deployed in combat/conscripts who had the same amount of time and training would be more effective in combat with Daos than Jians; and married with the simpler (quicker and cheaper) construction just made more sense overall. The Jian still survived in military use as mainly an officer class weapon, and was a much higher status weapon because of the implied greater skill of the owner, hence why civilian nobles much preferred it over the Dao as status symbols, and even in modern times Jians are seem as much more desirable than Daos for Chinese collectors and enthusiasts.
Given the average life expectancy (two or three major engagements) for the dudes on the shield lines, you needed a pretty simple system. We know from procurement records that Dao far outnumbered Jian in at least the Ming and Qing eras. However, 18th century records seem to indicate that in at least parts of China, military and militia warehouses usually had some jian. Records of interrogations from the Wang Lun uprising, for example, seem to indicate that having skill in two-sided swords was worth noting among civilian rebels.
For anyone who is interested in this timeperiod that these weapons came from (Chu era & Han era), the film "The Last Supper" (2012) takes place around this era and portrays it with relatively decent accuracy. Here is a clip: ruclips.net/video/gopJ-WofgCA/видео.html This film actually use costumes, weapons, and armor that are "reasonably" accurate and close to the timeperiod (as opposed to other Chinese or non-Chinese media that portray this timeperiod but use costumes & equipment that are anachronistic by many centuries or a thousand+ years). However, this is not an action film but more of a historical psychological drama, so the people expecting lots of action may be disappointed.
The ring pommel is made so its a good hand stopper but also very light, so it almost don't change the point of balance. This is a good thing for a slashing sword, because it makes it cut better in the entire length of blade.
Great review and discussion! The rings had animals in them based on the class of the owner of the sword. Some of the korean equivalents, the hwandudaedo, even had full clan crests in the ring. Not sure where the idea of hanging them off digits came from, can't say I've ever seen that done. Hanging them for storage or attaching a rope to tie the sword to the hand for cavalry use or long battles was also done, at least with the korean hwandudaedo. I'm not an expert in Chinese swords however, so there may have been discrepancies in korean and chinese practices.
@@itsapittie don't think so, in arsenal a sword is stored in his scabbard and then in a rack or a crate, why go with the problem of putting rods on the walls for your hundred thousands swords?
@@fabiovarra3698 you could be right, we're all just guessing. However, if I were in charge of an arsenal I wouldn't store a sword in it's wooden or leather sheath because it promotes rust. The purpose of the ring nothwithstanding, they probably stored the swords separate from the sheaths, whether they hung them or stacked them.
Would the original steel dao and jian always have been spring steel? I know you mentioned coming across experiments with originals in private collections where they did flex them and they were spring, but i recall in an older video about a different topic where you mentioned that katanas of some certain period were not made of spring steel, and i was wondering if the related chinese swords were ever commonly made of non spring steel.
Having a ring pommel, it allows the use of a wrist cord which also prevents your hand from sliding into the blade so the hilt less isnt a problem when it comes to thrusting. Most of the non-ring pommel tends to have a wider guard.
I agree to your review. I own one of these and the first thing I noticed was the sharp edges of the guard. These can really hurt when stabbing with the sword. But aside from this the sword is really well made and handles really great.
The armour evolution between the Warring States period and the Han Dynasty to Three Kingdoms periods was that the lamellar armour went from predominantly rawhide (for the common soldier), to more bronze or steel plates. That might not have made slashing more effective, but it might have made thrusting less effective or more damaging to the blades. But since these are side arms, these considerations are probably secondary to the economic one. Another idea is the unification of the Chinese states. While the Qin Dynasty unified China, it only lasted 20 odd years. The Han Dynasty was the first long term empire, so standardizing of the equipment of soldiers from multiple clans/tribes/nations/traditions might have been a sort of identity building exercise.
4 года назад
After watching many blacksmithing videos, I think if the ring was made out of the same material as the tang and not forge-welded on, it would be easier to hot-punch a hole and drift it (enlarge it), than take a tang and bend its end in a circle (around 13:35).
The transition from thrusting to cutting as the primary mode of sword combat came from the increased importance of cavalry in the Han armies. The main force of Han was cavalry, and those daos were calvary weapon.
The ring pommel could be use to have a string loop that would keep the hand from sliding up the blade. If you notice in period carvings the wrist has what seems to be a band around it.
I might have heard, that the ring attached to the grip is used for attaching a strap to tied to the user's wrist, so that the blade won´t be easily lost during fight, especially on horse back. But I am not sure whether there are some references to prove that, or whether it is true at all.
My theory is that the dao pommel is used to bind the dao to the user via the forearm or waist belt. Probably moreso for later eras, Sui, Tang etc. Basically, if the wrapping is done right, it could resolve the issue of slippage when it comes to the stab and aid in weapon recovery.
Could use a strap attached to the ring to retain the sword and serve as a hand stop. Could also attach heraldic decorative elements to the rings as well. Streamers, ribbons and the like.
Technically, daos (single edged blades) had been around for centuries before the Han-Xiongnu wars. The Xiongnu might have influenced its design (eg. geared towards mass production), but the dao had already been adopted and used for a long time by then. Furthermore, the Xiongnu are not the Huns, and there is only some indirect evidence that the Huns may have been the distant descendants of some of the Northern/Northwestern Xiongnu who migrated west and intermingled with many other tribes and peoples.
@@Meevious How did the Qing rebuild Chinese society from scratch? The Manchu conquest was successful in the first place due to half of the Ming generals being disillusioned/angry at the administration, betraying the emperor and siding with Manchus. The Manchus inherited the same Han Chinese bureaucracy, societal order and culture. They enforced certain elements of Manchu culture that were superficial and unimportant in significance. Later on they assimilated so much into the culture, today it's hard to discern Northern Han and Manchus. Their own culture is now endangered, by their own doing. As a matter of fact I'd argue the Qing, instead of tearing down Chinese society, reinforced it even more for the purpose of stability. Since they were a small ruling minority that could've been ousted by a whim, they did everything they could to encrust themselves into Chinese society. They promoted inter-marriage, and let themselves to be absorbed into the Han gene pool. Gave up on their own language. They enforced Confucianism fanatically. Thus this society that has taken Confucianism to the extreme later became unable to adapt to groundbreaking new innovations. The Mongols did that too but on a lesser scale that's why they got kicked out in less than a century.
@@Meevious I never said China was 100% never influenced or conquered. And Im not some Han supremacist I'm half Manchu myself. You make it seem that all Chinese emperors gave away their daughters. When in fact it was the opposite more often than not. So which part of the last 2 millenia were of "foreign rule"? Yuan, 100 years. Qing, 300 years. I think you need to go back to math class. The 8 Banner army is just an army division separated by ethnicity, but with an officialized 8 ethnicities, how alien! It definitely wasn't that way before! The Manchu queue was just sign of how Manchus were insecure about being a minority they used Confucianism to make people display their "loyalty" publicly. This is exactly what I meant by superficial and unimportant changes. It was indeed illegal for a Han commoner to marry a Manchu woman. But you also forgot the Qing actively encouraged Han bannermen and Manchu marriage, and Han bannermen immigration to Manchuria. By the end of the Qing, "Manchuria" was 95% Han. They were deeply insecure about their position which is why they spent 300 years trying to encrust themselves and secure their seat. To the point where they suppressed any groundbreaking tech, societal change. They limited trade, exploration, any attempt at decentralizing their power. Yes that's why they didn't get ousted on a whim. But when they did, they became so fragile they practically vanished.
@@Meevious So you include the Sixteen Kingdoms, Northern and Southern and Liao dynasties as conquest of China proper when it's just Northern nomads with part of the northern territories and adopted Chinese customs. And even when you add these together it barely breaks 600 years if I'm being generous. Yes, retake the math classes. They definitely influenced Chinese culture just like Turkic nomads. But you're saying they ruled over all of China which is just false lmao. I don't have an agenda, you're just saying falsehoods. What's your agenda?
With a ring its easy to have a kind of lanyard the length of the handle e use it to prevent the hand from sliping to the blade when thrusting. You could hold the lanyard along the handle with the hand inside the loop.
Alternative theory for the ring could be for storage in an armory. All you need is a row of pegs and slide the ring on it. If your storing 100k swords space efficiency is key
If I've taken anything away from your videos it's that everything about weapon design must be considered in context. In Europe and elsewhere other than China, stabby weapons were largely used to find the gaps in armor while slicey weapons were for unarmored opponents. Largely. Is that the case in the transition from the stabby jian to the slicey dao in China? Was there a change in who they were expecting to fight, from mostly armored to mostly unarmored opponents? Also, about those sharp-edged and -cornered fittings; I notice that the scabbard itself has a very sharply rectangular cross-section. This suggests a rather more general sweeping stylistic change which might also show up in other military or even civilian artifacts of the transition period. I'm at least as ignorant of Chinese history as you are but we have seen similar things in other countries' militaries, right?.
Before Han, they were pretty much just fighting civil wars. So the opponents had similar technology and had access to armor. In Han dynasty, they were fighting so-called Xiongnu people in the north. Xiongnu were nomadic and I suppose they might have less access to armor but have more mobility. So it does sense I guess.
it's worth mentioning that Han did not only fight against the Xiongnu people, there were a lot of infighting as well. during the period, the lower ranked you are in the military, the less coverage you get in terms of armor. the lowest of the infantry had only the shield for protection, move up the pecking order a little bit you'd get a modest lamellar chest piece that only covers the torso and leaves the shoulders and arms exposed. when you consider the meta during the time relied heavily on infantry it makes sense for the dao to become relevant--infantry soldiers were very under-armored
@@markfergerson2145 I certainly do. And on top of already mentioned points there was also the fact that a dao or any saber-type weapon is easier to use and maintain
in china, armor is vastly different historically than it is in other parts of the world. They're one of the few cultures that never bothered with mail and pretty much skipped plate armor in any significant scale. The number of soldiers typically fielded made it prohibitively expensive to armor all but elite troops and most of their external enemies were tribal nomads, so not really heavily armored either. in the period in which the Jian was popular, warfare was a formalized ritual that was more akin to a series of one-on-one fights between champions and nobles than large scale clashes. Which probably why a jian shares a lot in common with the later european rapier, when dueling became more likely than close packed melee. during and after the 'warring states' period, when things like honor fell by the wayside, swords better suited for use by and against commoners became more practical, since armies massively scaled up in size and most of the peasant levy soldiers relied on nothing but a shield and helmet for protection. So you go from the finely crafted jian to the much more utilitarian dao. armor is a massive expense for an army, when you're fielding armies in the hundreds of thousands and policing an area as large as China... yea, that's an expense you can probably do without in a lot of cases. Especially if your biggest threat is usually rebellious nobles, in which case you want their armies relatively squishy.
Maybe a video of all of your Chen swords together? Love the two here. Just got turned on to the L.K. Chen swords, love to see more and your thoughts about them. Excellent video as always sir!! Stay safe and God bless 🇺🇸☠️🇺🇸 🇬🇧🤺💂!!!
If I was in charge of a massive peasant army, I think the ring on the pummel could serve two purposes. 1) Decoration: Colored ribbons might help identify units on a battlefield. 2) Tie the sword to their wrist, so they stop dropping the thing in combat.
The dimensional design of the sword was surprising.. I thought it was just straight but apparently with the very slight increase of the size at the end of the blade which was barely noticeable lends weight to the cuts. Agreed the design of the hand guard means this dao is for cutting not for stab. The pommel can allow lanyards to be tied so warriors don't lose the weapon in the heat of war and as a as stop so you don't lose the weapon when u swing it. Without the slight dimensional increase this sword would have been questionable in any kind of battle. Impressed wit the ancient Chinese sword design.
You mentioned the possibility of the ring being a hand stop. If it was, then that would be an excellent way of adding a hand stop without also adding a lot of extra weight.
Matt, did you do a review of that messer behind you? I think it's one of the ones you got from Landsknecht Emporium and I can find reviews of the two bigger ones but not the smaller one.
I think I remember an Asian History Prof. said originally the Japanese got their swords from the Chinese and they were straight single edged. After the swords had become curved laws were passed to stop Chinese imports. I last took an Asian history class 15 or 16 years ago, AND I now have a memory issue.
the katana is indeed descended from this general shape of sword (known as 'ken' to the japanese). They were the primary sword of the japanese samurai class until the mongol invasions, when locally produced versions made of japanese iron proved way too brittle for use in large scale warfare (native japanese iron is some of the lowest quality in the world, due to many impurities in the iron veins themselves). So they beefed up the blades, changed the forging process, and during that forging process the blades took on their now characteristic curve. (all katana blades are initially straight, they curve during the quenching phase due the to higher carbon content along the edge than in the spine). This was refined into the katana we all know. after this the japanese preferred to import raw iron and forge the swords themselves as opposed to chinese pattern blades, which they found ill-suited to their newer styles of warfare.
I would pass a lanyard loop thru the ring at the end to increase the power I can use for stabbing. There's an image from Russia showing their cavalry with their sabres hanging from their arms while they use bow and arrow.
I do not know much about Chinese swordsmanship. Is there any evidence they may have used the ring pommel for some sort of sword knot to help secure the sword in the hand?
Is there any evidence of sword knots used in China at the time? That ring (also on the Hidden Hilt one) would be perfect for that “dangling the blade” for pole arms and bow use. Could prevent you slipping up the blade, too. Like the loop an a skiing pole.
Perhaps a ring (hollow pommel) makes sense when the primary focus of the sword is chopping and need the weight more near of the tip and lose some maneuverability but still need a hard stop and avoid the sword going fly by the centrifugal force, just a thought. PD: a ring also helps to avoid the pommel to get stuck in thing like clothes or similar, unlike a large and simple T design
Is it possible that the loop pommel was used in conjunction with a strap or loop of cord that would stop your hand slipping up onto the blade, Like is used with machetes with a saw back? Also could the change from thrust style blades to cutting blades be to do with expanding armies and arming less skilled swordsmen!? Sort of a chop and go style
"perhaps for ritual purposes" And that, my friends, is proof positive that Matt was once an archaeologist.
From UCL
And "ritual purposes" usually ends up meaning sex toy, so did they **** their swords?
@@rajamicitrenti1374 Anything can serve that purpose with enough courage and/or armor.
@@stanleylee5358 With enough courage, and/or armor, and/or death wish.
Thread's a bit old, perhaps, but I'm sure that you will be happy to revisit this tremendous exchange.
Nice to see a resurgence in chinese sword, LK Chen is becoming pretty popular pretty fast with the sword community on youtube.
talking to another sword-finisher in china on facebook, I discovered LK chen is also pretty popular in China for being so important about replication.
Apparently giving out a ton of swords to reviewers is good advertising.
My bet is a combination of excellent design and well-paid advertisement contracts.
@@harjutapa Not advertisement but being generous with review samples. Which works well for LK Chen because their excellent designs and good build quality (excellent for the price) pretty much guarantee positive reviews. It also helps that they are one of only a few affordable sources for good reproductions of Chinese swords, and are first to market (at least outside China) with good reproductions of swords from earlier eras.
@@tsmspace kind of but controversial may be the better word, many think his replicas are not in good quality, I think they are ok though, far from perfect but good enough for the price.
Just a brainstormed idea here, and I have no historical evidence to support this hypothesis. However, could the ring a utilitarian factor in manufacturing? The blades could be ran along a rod or hung from hooks for quenching multiple blades at the same time. Then hung though 'ovens' to normalize and cool. Just a thought.
Jacob Pursell You’re on the something with the “hung along a rod” idea. Maybe they created on giant mega sword by linking all the swords together and then a huge Goliath of a man would swing all the swords at once attacks to a rod or chain. Lol I think your idea is more realistic.
From history book, the ring does serve as a hook point. Also serves as a tie-down anchor to tie your hand to the sword (it is a cavalry weapon). Also, a place to hang trinket. Also has a weight balance mechanism, since you can have the blacksmith to make the ring bigger or smaller quite easy. What a multi-purpose ring.
@@tianxiu To tie the sword to your hand could also fit the purpose of a handstop for thrusting.
I'm pretty sure they never did something like that, when we talk of mass production for ancient or medieval times we still talk of hand made products build in large numbers
and tempering a blade was done by sight and esperience by the swordsmith so it would had been impossible to temper and quench mutiple blades toghether like that
@@fabiovarra3698 fair point. I do know there was still way too much personal labor involved for it to be considered 'industrial manufacturing'.
This kind of blades are called “环首刀” in Chinese. Basically mean Ring Head Dao or Dao with Ring Head. In order to highlight that Ring attached to the grip. Straight sword with single edge blade then became one of the most classic sword in Chinese weapon history. Like Tang Dao. Although it is hard to tell the relationship between the Tang Dao and the Ring Head Dao, they still share a lot of same characteristics. Very good video, looking forward for more Dao and Jian in your channel.
20:09 Holy wow, the way the light glinted up the blade made me think it got yeeted at the most ironic moment.
Really love Ring Pommels in general, and that love started with these early Dao and in a lot of cases the Jian. Makes me miss my traditional CMA days, but I’m glad that Chinese military designs are coming more to prominence since the days of Acrobatic Wushu-ified “blades” dominating much of the Western exposure to Chinese weapons.
One of those cases where enthusiasm meeting the internet was a good thing, making evident the demand for accurate reproductions of historical arms of all cultures.
16:25. Reminds me of Ashitaka doing that in Princess Mononoke.
Whilst shooting his bow, yes.
sweet a 40 min video! the longer the better. Cheers Matt!
Matt: Dangling this is very dangerous!
Also Matt: *shakes around with the dangling Dao*
I never claimed to be sensible.
@@scholagladiatoria 😂😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣
That's how the sword got it's name, don'tcha know?
When you dangle it around and it smacks your sensitive bits, "DAO!"
And here we are.
@@scholagladiatoria TBH that part looks a bit of scary...
I bought LK Chen's "Double Dragon" Clarence Mackay Sui Dao from a sword friend. It's one of the nicest reproduction Chinese weapons I own. Such subtle attention to detail of the blade geometry.
17:20 neither would I, however I've seen a turkish horseback show where they shot while holding the sword with the pinkie and ring fingers, then using strap on the wrist transition to proper sword grip and cut the target. All in gallop.
Anyway I really enjoy the longer format, your videos always leave me wanting!
I personally would love to see you cover Dadao or Chinese Broadswords. They’re basically like War Cleavers meant to basically say if you didn’t armor/shield up you lose period, and great for large sweeps that cover wide areas.
Or www.mandarinmansion.com/article/chinese-long-sabers-qing-dynasty
Matt Easton/Scholargladitoria has already covered one type of later era Chinese broadsword and also covered LK Chen's Chu/Han era longsword in his recent videos. You can search through all of his videos on his channel.
ruclips.net/video/t5gL0KuGlDU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/y5Op4vRsXJw/видео.html
Unfortunately with the dadao you run into 2 problems. First of all the historical dadao in its roots is an improvised weapon, a scaled up kitchen cleaver, hastily constructed with whatever scrap metal that's available without much thought put into the craftsmanship. You can forget about the "luxuries" such as weight, balance, taper, and all that because those standards never existed for the dadao in the first place.
Secondly, when looking at modern examples that are crafted with quality in mind, the dadao is such a straightforward weapon it leaves very little to talk about. It is not fancy, is less reliant on skill when compared to many other blades, and is certainly lacking when it comes to finess. Its devastating chopping ability comes more from momentum than blade characteristics or technique--"if you swing the damn thing hard enough it's gonna mess up whatever it hits". Sure, you can talk about the craftsmanship and blade quality and raw characteristics and how it handles and all that, but then you'd actually be judging the blacksmith and their decisions and not the weapon as a whole.
@@wor575 the one thing about dadao is that there are military fight manuals from WWII. Nothing fancy, simple and pretty good for countering the Arisaka bayonet charge. A big chunk of railroad tie brushes the rifle aside, counters to the neck. But mostly a weapon for police to easily chop off hands or heads of thieves and murderers, terrifying the onlookers
@@wor575 all false lol
This was absolutely amazing!
I loved the video! And I'm not even that interested in the Chinese martial arts weapons, with that said maybe I am more so now after watching and learning more about this 1 sword!
I'm definitely going to go back and watch past videos about weapons that you've already reviewed.
Thanks for all the great information and entertainment! 😁
The "Chinese martial arts" type weapons are much later than the weapons in this video. It's like comparing a Roman gladius to an 17th century rapier. Also many martial arts weapons we see are not actual weapons, but props used in operas and circuses types of performances.
If you are interested in Chinese swords, you should definitely go watch Swordsage's RUclips channel.
I'm so glad you did the cutting tests. It brought home how good the historic design was and gave you insight into the pommel's purpose.
Three days staff, 三日棍
Hundred days Dao, 百日刀
Thousand days Spear, 千日枪
Ten thousand days Jian
万日剑
The quarterstaff or staff is the lowest and easiest to master,
The Dao takes 100 days to master, or slightly over 3 months.
The Spear takes 1000 days to master, or close to 3 years.
The Jian takes 10,000 days to master, or close to 30 years.
(I suppose the 30 years can be a exaggeration, lets say 10 years or 3650 days)
It is the time taken to make full use of the potential of the weapons,
It is alike taking crossbows to arm troops instead of using bows, because
it takes 3 years to train an archer, but 3 days to train a crossbow man.
Not only the manufacturing cost of Jian is nearly double of a Dao when you are going to
grind 2 edges instead of 1, but the amount of food you need to supply your troops during a training period
which they cannot serve in the front line.
3 months compared to 10 years is lots of money, not to mention if the soldier die in action they are never going to master a Jian.
(And yes, a thing to consider is the average lifespan of a soldier in service during war time)
So a Dao is a design that hit the sweet spot for practical use, it has a reasonable training time
while being cheaper to produce compared to a Jian.
The Dao is similar to machete for firewood chopping, and the cutting motion is similar to using the shovel
for farmer, which Han dynasty China is an Agricultural society, so swinging the plow or machete the whole day is already
free training which the military doesn't need to pay the logistics for.
Incidentally, a blacksmith would be swinging his hammer the whole day, that is similar to cutting motion with a Dao,
There is a documentary where a weapon expert perform cutting worse than a blacksmith, because
the blacksmith's job nature is basically swinging a hammer and hitting a target precisely.
ruclips.net/video/OB5DgoW9Flk/видео.html
The guy in the brown jacket is a weapon expert, the black jacket dude is the blacksmith for the sword being tested.
So most drafted recruits would have decent muscle to cut with a Dao, but lack the experience of thrusting with a Jian.
This is also why the Mongolians are mainly using composite short bow from the horse back, because they are nomads,
kids would grow up riding horse and chasing herds of sheep and buffaloes, while hunting small games and protecting the herd from predators like wolves.
so archery training on a moving horseback against a moving small target like a rabbit or wolf.
So human on horseback is easy target for Mongols.
It is alike season snipe hunters are employed as "snipers" during World War 1, they are masters
with a hunting rifle even before military training.
So today if nations are going to war they can put drones on keyboard and mouse control and the whole gamer population
would do impossible feat even the military didn't expect.
Would you mind telling us the sources for your three days staff quote ? I've never heard of it and I find it very interesting historically to understand such a quote. Thanks for the info !
@@chopstickthrower930 I am a Chinese living in mainland China, and i can tell you that this saying is popular here, but the version i heard is a bit different. In Chinse, it is written as "月棍年刀一辈子枪"， means
"it takes months to master a staff; years to master a Dao; one's entire lifetime to master a spear". Though in global popular culture, sword, whether it has one edge or two, has a significant status over polearms. But anyone, as long as they have some access to melee weapons, like in hema, would know that polearms are the true overwhelming weapons in history.
Gamers are especially diverse. Remote control is one thing, but robotics and AI-assisted fire control can allow gamers to perform remote operations using simplified controls. From close quarters to aerial control.
Though savant-like gamers who dedicate to competency and precision is how a military can get an experimental prototype handling a high-G drone fighter dedicated to dogfights, especially if the pilot is in orbit to control for a window of time.
I was thinking Princess Mononoke the whole time because of the ring pommel, and it made me happy when Matt said that it could enable someone to shoot a bow after hanging the sword on your pinky XD
For what it's worth:
In studying Chinese swordsmanship and weapons forms, I came across the following quote:
It takes 3 days to master the spear, 3 weeks to master the dao, and a lifetime to master the jian.
Of course, these sorts of sayings must be taken with a grain of salt, but perhaps the Chinese viewed the dao to be an easier weapon to train a soldier to basic proficiency with. This might, in part, explain why the dao eventually became the preferred weapon for the Chinese armies (alongside of economic concerns).
I've no experience with sword fighting at all, but from a guy with absolutely no experience's point of view, IF a sword has only one cutting edge surly there's less strokes used in a fighting style that uses one vs a fighting style that uses a sword with two edges, no back edge strokes needed to be learnt means less time learning OR more time to learn the style?
Really? cause what I know is "It takes a month to master the staff, a year to master the dao, and a lifetime to master the spear", I practiced swords and spear, chinese spear definitely need more training, though as a battlefield weapon, it can still beat sword even without master skill
I guess you do need less time to practice spear to beat swordsman, but it have more potential so "a lifetime to master the spear" is more for duel between two spear.
@@landofwolves so yes it's quicker to learn a Dao style then a Jian style because there's less to learn. also a Sabre is a type of sword and if the Dao character's translates into knife it's a knife, so telling someone it's a type of sword, not a sword when you say it's translated name is knife is kinda silly, kind of like telling someone it's a hatchback not a car when it's called a go-cart.
@@landofwolves yes, jian is indeed more complex than dao. For spear though, long spear have less common with staff, involving less swinging and more thrusting, and thrusting can be tricky, maybe you practice shorter spear? Actully it's kind of like dao and jian, one with more swinging and other with more thrusting, and longer reach.
@@landofwolves your comment wasn't offensive in anyway, if anything mine was and for that i apologise, i should have been more clear. A Sabre is a type of sword (European Dao like sword) and a longsword is a type of sword (European Jian type sword). A sword is a type of edged weapon. but not all edged weapons are swords, a war axe is an edged weapon that isn't a sword. With that out of the way i think it's a language barrier issue (刀 doesn't just mean knife, it means the concept of a knife for instance anything knife like is also 刀), I think the Dao sword get's called a Sabre because of how they are similar and maybe how they are used is also similar, a Jian gets called a sword because in western culture a sword is imagined as a straight double edged longsword, even though there are multiple sub types of sword. as for the analogy, i mistakenly thought that you would know that a sabre is a sub type of sword the same as a hatchback is a sub type of car and is driven slightly differently then other sub types of car, that's my mistake, i apologise .
Great video, I really enjoy these videos on Chinese swords. In the review you kept mentioning the use of shields with the Dao, which is valid. However what you didn't seem to mention is use in cavalry. I had a really deep dive into Chinese literature and history a while back, and I distinctly remember the dao being talked about as the far superior cavalry weapon as opposed to the Jian. I can't remember if it was in the Three Kingdoms novel or something else.
Another claim i remember clearly was the Dao was quick and easy to learn, but the Jians fighting system and schooling was much more complex.
Yeah mainly because the dao was all edge on one edge so you could just swing and chop. And if you wanted to thrust, most cavalry if not all of them were already equipped with a lance at that point.
Also takes longer to make a jian
@@DiscRover I always figured the jian would have been more fragile too when on horseback, where the robustness of the dao was a real boon to it for that type of work.
@@-Zevin- That as well. And also, the robust spine and thickness of the dao would serve better as tools like chopping away brush and things than its jian counterpart
@@DiscRover That's a good point. Especially during the Han dynasty, during the expansions into the southern jungles and the wars with the Nanman. I can imagine they were used for clearing vegetation and as tools quite often.
As for the hand slipping towards the blade when thrusting the han troops could had have a strap tied to the ring pomel to prevent it from happening. This is just a speculation and there is no real evidence of this but there is a good possibility of it being done.
there were actually tang dyansty paintings showing warriors tiding short strap on the ring
I was just wondering if you were actually supposed to slip your pinkie finger inside the ring pommel as you used the sword, but your idea seems much less finger breaking.
There is also art showing long tassels and ribbons attached to the ring. Why and how used is a good question but, is quite showy and common in Wushu and other martial arts.
@@rogerlafrance6355 Might be unit identification. If the artwork is to be believed, earlier Warring States period had less head protection for the common soldiers, so they are likely to have coloured bandana/turbans. By the Han Dynasty, a lot more metal helmets were used.
@@rogerlafrance6355 the flags and tassels are supposedly to draw an opponents eye to the spinning red horsehair or billowing fabric instead of the blade, but i think also style like in gymnastics floor exercise
Well done, Matt! Excellent video on this important type of sword.
From the perspective of a logistical practitioner from a modern military background, the ring stands out to me to be very convenient for mass storage. All you need is a wall with some dowels and you could store hundreds of blades in a relatively small area, which you can't really do with the Jian.
I’m glad you mentioned the recurved blade, because I was going insane trying to figure out if it was just an optical illusion
I think the ring could be just for easier hanging and stacking Dao up in Arsenal or in transport. Like shelves of them hanging on the wall or something. A very utilitarian purpose. Beauty in simplicity. Great vid!
Thank you Matt for delving into historical Chinese dao and jian! I have two of the LK Chen line of products in my collection and will be adding more I'm sure. These dao and jian are an exciting development for those of us collecting reproduction Chinese swords. With your knowledge and experience, your informative and positive reviews means a lot to me as a collector - that I'm making a good buy. Before the LK Chen line, the available Han jian / dao were disappointingly heavy and clunky in comparison.
Wow, i must say i really love these super long and in depth videos!
Especially the history part was very interesting. Please do more like these!
That 400g sword goes through that 1 in piece of wood beautifully Matt.
I’ve always thought the pommel ring was a lanyard loop that a soldier would use to tie a lanyard to their wrist. This would help prevent soldiers from losing their swords in battle, especially if they’re mounted on horseback.
It's very interesting that the pommel "end" of a sword is known as the "head/start of the sword" in Chinese.
An instrument can have more than 1 head, such as the double headed stick and 9 dragon fork. It is not unreasonable to hit with the tail, such as the unclear dragon swinging its tail, and tiger tail leg in boxing.
@@MtRevDr Ancient Chinese swords, both Dao and Jian, have lots of decorations on its pommel end. It is very likely that they viewed the sword from its dressing position rather than drawing position.
Well I mean, lots of Western swords had outright animal head designs for pommels too.
@@vanitas9843 - Some Chinese swords have animal heads(especially horse in Mongolian design) as well. I have a sword with eagle heads.
@@zhenbiaoli297 - People do many things and live in many ways. My wife uses some of my swords on table stand as her jewel stand. I just shaped my trees with a jian today.
Also I like the fact that you go into more in depth with regards to military weapons havin to be more reliable, but also to be mass produced, cost efficient and efficient but also workable in real situations.
Great video! Do you think that the lack of much hand shock could have something to do with the slight forward curvature of the blade? Also, about 4 minutes into the video you mention that the number of swords in the government arsenal outnumbered pole arms. The only official Han dynasty arsenal inventory that I am aware of is the Donghai Commandery arsenal and in it the number of crossbows and Pi 鈹(Sword-staffs) actually outnumber the number of swords by a fairly large margin. The full list of the inventory is here: Bows&Crossbow:
--------Crossbow: 537,707
--------Bows: 77,521
--------Subtotal: 615,228
Projectiles:
--------Crossbow bolts: 11,458,424
--------Imperial owned arrows: 1,199,316
--------Subtotal: 12,657,740
Armor:
--------Jia Armor: 142,701
--------Iron thigh clothing: 255, 1 pair of unique ones
--------Kai armor: 63,324
--------Armored thigh clothing: [?] ten thousand 563
--------Iron lamellar armor: 587,299,
--------Leather armor is 14 jin [7.5 lbs]
Helmets:
--------Helmets: 98,226
--------Horse armor: 5,330
Shields:
--------Shields: 102,551
Polearms:
--------Bronze Ge: 632
--------Spear: 52,555
--------Imperial owned sheng: 943
--------Pi sword-staff: 451,222
--------Ji halberd: 6,634
--------YoFang: 78,393
--------Duan: 24,167
--------Subtotal: 614,546
Blades:
--------Sword: 99,905
--------JingLu Dagger: 24,804
--------Saw [?] sabre: 30,098
--------Sabre: 156,135
--------Great Sabre: 127 (232)
--------Subtotal: 311,069
Axes:
--------Iron axe: 1132 (136)
Battle Carts:
--------ChengYuZheng chariots, drum chariots,
--------WuGang chariots:18
--------Soldier [?] ChengYu chariots: 24
--------Interconnected Crossbow Carriage: 564
--------Charging chariot: 37
--------Drum Chariot: 4
--------Battle Chariot: 1
--------[?] chariot: 564
--------[?] chariot: 1
--------WuGang strong crossbow chariot: 10
--------ZuiBi chariot: 1
--------Battle chariot: 502
--------3 wheeled soldier [?] chariot: 1 (168)
--------Tracking: 9
--------High…chariot: 11
--------[?] chariot: 7
--------[?] chariot…chariot: 2133
--------Su [?] heavy chariot: 1993
--------Soldier [?] [?] chariot: 677
--------He chariot: 2
--------FeiLow temporary chariot: 2
--------Subtotal: 7174 It is important to note that some of the characters on the original document are unclear, hence the [?], and we don't know what all of the terminology in the document refers to. I would also caution against taking the numbers too literally because this is the ancient world, counting without computers is hard, and scribal mistakes are very possible. So the exact numbers are not 100% reliable. Additionally, many of these weapons would be in an unusable condition. Some of the weapons in the inventory may have been hundreds of years old by the time of the Han Dynasty, and we have other period sources which talk record inventory checks and talk about things like crossbows going weak from being strung a while and things like that. The prevalence and dominance of the crossbow in this inventory correlates to our understanding of this weapon's importance in other historical accounts, but the number of over 400,000 sword-staffs which outnumber the amount of spears seems a little surprising to me at least. I would want to see more research on the Pi to get a better idea of whether or not it really was the mainstay polearm of the Han period, or if something else explains the weapon's prevalence in this particular regional arsenal.
This is extremely interesting!
1) At 3:47, Matt says the swords outnumbered the halberds (Ji). He did not say swords outnumbered all types of polearms. Matt is only comparing swords to the Ji/halberd and not to every type of polearm.
2) I thought the: 24,167 Duan was the Sha, and was the "official" swordstaff with the 3 foot long blade with an oval pole (LK Chen has a reproduction of that - ruclips.net/video/FTBagvDyTk0/видео.html). I read that the Pi gets translated as either a swordstaff, or as a long, pike-like weapon that often had a blade longer than most spears (but not necessarily long enough to be a swordstaff).
My opinion about the slight forward profile is not about hand shock, although springs have effects,,, my thought is on the desired strike. In a comment above I said: Han Dynasty was larger than previous empires, perhaps armies had to march further faster so armor was used less to allow for easier travel times, therefore choice of battlefield position and resource control. Therefore, armies would be less armored needing less stabbing through armor,,, however armies would be equally capable and fast, and skilled. So the expected strike would not be a huge killing blow to the opponent, but little wrist cuts, the first available strike, and then as many of these strikes as possible in as little time as possible. So, the goal would be to get an opening, and use little energy to deliver a small wrist chop. The forward curvature might work well if the wrist chop is accompanied by a lunge at the opponent, which would mean that the body is projecting forwards slightly during the strike, making a slight forward curvature slightly better at slicing. Also, for slower attacks like draw cuts, the goal would be to INCREASE the resistance of the blade, which a forward bend would also achieve.
@@tsmspace I think we need to be careful when making blanket statements, because Han Dynasty armor would have varied a lot depending on when, where, and who they were fighting. Heavy armor for the Han Dynasty heavy infantry and heavy cavalry exceeded and was more protective than armor from earlier periods. Lighter and less protective armor for lighter infantry and lighter cavalry did exist as well. During eras of peace (eg. emperor Jing), ceramic figurines were lighter armored, whereas during eras of war (eg. emperor Wudi), ceramic figurines were more heavily armored. Here are examples of ceramic figurines and recreations of different Han era armor:
Ceramic figurines recovered around the timeperiod:
2.bp.blogspot.com/-beSc0DR-dys/V8T_6-gs1qI/AAAAAAAADkc/sIFQoMelCFk65F4RT6OR-YQqqmUJ3uLQwCLcB/s1600/Han15.jpg
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/68/Han_shieldbearers_01.jpg/1024px-Han_shieldbearers_01.jpg
Examples of medium to heavier types of armor:
4.bp.blogspot.com/-1xXDpqpLu3Q/V8UKPXoBtFI/AAAAAAAADmQ/bzCDPm5sNtY3ByHzmbqyBz6UKUJ7tag7wCLcB/s1600/JSJMs3f.jpg
2.bp.blogspot.com/-L35vqfhQOhM/V8JJ7eAs-tI/AAAAAAAADS0/t8Nhoklq2NgeFOpNYVrz76_LnpUM4S9hwCLcB/s1600/Hht9ZKR.jpg
1.bp.blogspot.com/-C5UvNJalcz0/V8T_6nOjMFI/AAAAAAAADkY/pgBbs6fo4zAyFSoxcRH8WuN2awpuVtdMQCLcB/s1600/Han14.jpg
1.bp.blogspot.com/-RYYfUNVkxhc/V8USAc8GJhI/AAAAAAAADnM/OzdRYRYNwqgWtgPBWWPXdYZn3LdRc5pKQCLcB/s1600/da2f160a4f7f873043278b3bc79d4457.jpg
Here is an example of lighter armor for lighter infantry:
4.bp.blogspot.com/-F7KYB_q7XNQ/V8T6MMTJbAI/AAAAAAAADjw/rLSN0zavNAQ4I_PJQj4IKxyjOZ-9iDLVQCEw/s1600/Han4.jpg
@@Intranetusa I didn't go through all those links just yet,,, but I agree, however the arsenal also included many other weapons , so I wouldn't be suggesting a complete shift in tactics, merely a potential desire for additional tactics. I"m not a historian, and of course you can assume the "I just like swords" disclaimer.
Dear Matt, I love your videos on Asian weaponry. I recently saw a great documentary on the Songhai Empire which was as rich and complex as any European empire at the time. I know they had a great cavalry and exotic auxiliary units. I've been on an African history kick and was wondering if you could do a video on combat and weaponry in the age of Mansa Musa or Songhai. Thanks!
Seems to me the dao's design is from a military standpoint, the weapon that's perfect to be issued out to militia infantry/base line soldiers.
Minimalist/functional design, cutting focus, meaning it was made to be easily usable by the most basic conscript, hence the larger inventory vs the Jian.
Think the AK-47, simple construction, mass production, and easily usable with minimal training/maintenance.
I was surprised that no one else seemed to be thinking about ease of training. I'd be curious to know if the rise of the dao coincided with an increase in the size of the army.
actually, the generals later started wearing daos over Jians too. I guess it tells u more about durbility, too.
The ring in the pommel to hang it while shooting arrow is how Hayao Miyasaki put his character Ashitaki of the "Mononoke Princess" movie in his weilding. Salutations. Great channel and help me a big deal to write my novels with more accuracy.
I see where the design for Ahsitaka's sword in Princess Mononoke comes from.
Very cool sword and the tests cuts were fun to see. You could try to use a big c-clamp or ratcheting cinch so you don't have to dodge bits of wood flopping around.
My god very educational a lot of history and information compare to some other channel. Thankyou sir!
Nice! That's the one I'm most interested in. Thanks. Your thoughts are highly valued.
Those horizontal cuts were very well done!
I can eco most of what Matt Easton has said here. Of the LK Chen blades I have gotten to move, this one is both surprising and fun.
@@Matthew_Jensen thanks. I was also impressed with swordsages reaction to how light she is. Hopefully I'll be able to pony up the cash for this one and the frontier one. We will see.
@@erichusayn I have not spent enough time with it to have much thought on it but taking it out of the box and doing a bit of measuring, I can say it feels like a weapon. Out of the blades sold, this one feels like one you could use for fun, camping, home defense.. Not that it would be a first choice, my point is that it feels like a versatile tool that one can understand inherently. The longer dao I have feel like they require more training or thought. At least that is my initial impression.
@@Matthew_Jensen thanks again. Good to know. I should probably just order both to save on shipping. Lol. As a katana guy, I find their dao very intriguing. I've emailed with them a bit already and they seem very responsive and eager to do business, so hopefully we will be seeing more from them in the future. Have yet to hear anything really negative about them honestly...
wow that cutting test was impressive even considering the light targets, big fan of lk chen swords but I wasn't too sure about these since it's so small and light you definitely made me reconsider these swords
L K Chen had a very good idea to reproduce the ancient designs. That way the fittings are simple so you can get a decent blade for a good price. A more recent design, like a katana for example, has more parts and takes more work to put together.
Matt is the sword Hickok45, Impecable accuracy.
Matt provides actual information. He is Sword Jesus.
Thus and so.
And sword jesus did take up the dao, and explsin his followers its merits.
But many turned away from sword jesus, and some worshipped the arming sword, and some worshipped the katana.
And sword jesus did smack both about the face and said unto them: "watch my videos, you fucking pillocks!"
And there was much rejoicing.
@@thedamnyankee1 We now have Sword Jesus, Gun Jesus, and Tank Jesus.
@@keithcarpenter7320 what?
@@keithcarpenter7320 hickok does that?
Interesting review. One thing I'd like to add to the "non-existence" of the guard is the fact that the sword can be used for thrusting effectively without cutting your hands, with the help of a 絻, sword string, usually attached to the pommel and tied to the hands. This makes the manufacturing of the swords easier and more economic on a mass scale, and preparing a sword string made of cloth is relatively easy on the soldiers' side. It's a win-win situation.
2 years late, but here are my 2 cents. I support the commenters that said this was binding-related, but the caveat is that it was on demand and more subtle than tying the blade to a hand. Haven't used this particular one myself, but I saw similar at 1995 World Wushu Championships, where even for presentations and comps you still added "battle" elements to your equip and uniform. Namely, like the source images you showed, you wrapped your ankles and wrists to "contain your energy" as well as adding a "tassel" or "ribbon" to your weapon, which was really part of a silk sash or cloth folded at the middle, the weapon laid upon it, the dangling ends fed through the hole. The ring on this sword is ideal for putting a sash on it like a lanyard. A Chinese competitor used a ring pommeled sword like this in an exhibition where she used it multiple ways: A) full hand on hilt with the "ribbon" used as a cloth couterweight, B) other times she would momentarily use her other hand to grab the hilt in low to blade reverse grip tight towards the guard, blade along elbow, her original hand quickly wrapping her fingers a time or two in the sash like a finger guard then grabbing again forward grip with the original hand, she'd perform a number of lungy thrusts before switching hands letting her quickly unwrap it again, C) other times she half-pommelled like you might use a Circassians Kama grabbing the hilt normally with the thumb and index and middle fingers but at the bottom of the hilt, palming the pommel/ring, gripping the sash and/or hookable feature with the other fingers on the ring, allowing for fast whiplike chopping slashes in a motion like a reverse frisbee throw, utilizing the open gap in the front lower grip to both allow the slash motion from the wrist and stop it before it goes too far, moving to the next movement using wrist twists to quickly reverse the same cut or reset the grip D) to quickly recover from the half-pommel to full grip or reverse grip knowing the sash is there to grab if you miss E) or supporting a potential dual handed padded thrust by palming the sashed ring, and F) finally and most unsafely as a way to throw/realease the sword during a swing with a snappy body turn to give extra reach as you do with a spear, holding the bottom of the sash wrapped around the left, right hand in a pinched around the sash continuing the turn and yanking the sword back into the right hand by pulling on the sash through the turn. If you tied the sash right it should've kept edge geometry, but who knows what'd happen on impact if the sash pull is done wrong or you miss the grip or... just because. Whether I could do it or not doesn't matter because she apparently thought she could. In addition to that, my own thought is that you could use the sash to bind it to any old long stick and have a spear in a pinch. And also, there's the fact their money had a hole in it to store it in pre-counted bundles.
It is a common Chinese practice to tie a scarf or silk usually red to the loop, techniques in Kung Fu utilize said silks for feints and distractions, also a few grappling moves.
That seems to be a tradition of only later period.
In the modern context, tying red fabric is a tradition/cultural practice that means you are not a fighting school and you have friendly reasons for bringing weapons (e.g. demonstration vs. looking to beef with any other schools that are there). In practice, I find the red fabric is a pain in the ass that interferes more with me as the wielder as opposed to an opponent.
@@vancityband6577 Agreed. So are the sword tassels with beads or jade loops. Looks nice, but add only to the detriment of the user.
I don't think the average Han soldier would know any of that, or do it in battle
@@fabiovarra3698 Nope, they didn't.
Really great video matt, I look forward to more videos focusing on Chinese weapons.
Chinese swords in popular media always always have some kind of tassel attached to the "pommel", so it seems plausible that this was the primary purpose of the ring. (Though in _Monoke Hime_ we do see Ashitaka (whose sword is essentially a dao) pull off the "draw your bow with the sword hanging from your finger by the ring" move, and it does look super-cool. 😀)
I would love to see videos about yataghans, since you mentioned them so much in this vid! Ive noticed that by the early 1800s theyre all over art work in the balkans and ive seen some interesting painting of Albanians, Greeks, and other peoples duel wielding them with long straight daggers or kiliç/shamshir type swords.
Were the rings maybe for tastles, like you have hanging from some sabers?
I put many things on the rings. One thing about the lack of hand guard is a lanyard rope on the ring can stop the hand sliding onto the blade. Another reason for small guard is the clothing usually is loose and can easily get caught on a big guard. I recently tore a jacket by a Western cross guard.
Nice .. interesting topic as usual. Thanks sir!
The loop at the end of the grip is for tying your sword into you hand to avoid being disarmed imo
Matt, I think I could answer some of your question.
The holes at the back of the Dao could be used for putting a cloth band for passing your wrist through, so the sword would not be lost in a battle.
Han Dynasty type shield could indeed be strapped on to the forearm as a depiction from the nearby Dian Kingdom show a soldier holding a spear in two hand while also using a shield, he would look like a Macedonian phalangites.
While period sources are rare, I manage to find a depiction from the Qin Dynasty. The user would be in a crouching position, holding his shield to cover his face with the top of the shield above his head and holding the sword on the back.
The shields used by the Qin and Han Dynasty had notches on their rim, combined with the low stance, the notches would be able to parry swords and spears and hold them in the notch. They are probably similar in principle to the Han Dynasty hooked steel buckler.
The dao seems to be a more utilitarian style blade. If soldiers were using their sword for non-combat tasks, a robust single blade would keep better than it's predecessor.
People don't do that. It's a sword. It's pretty much rubbish for anything but fighting, you wouldn't set out to go fell a tree or butcher a pig with a sword. That's like some future historic warfare guy proclaiming "The G36 seems a lot more utilitarian for non-combat tasks. The foldable stock makes it great to sit on in two different heights..."
The jian that have been featured, indeed all the ones LK Chen sell, are all at the very top end of the lengths of those recovered, it would be nice if they made a replica of a standard issue jian but they don't. There are very few edged weapons that double as utility blades until certain 19th century bayonets, in contrast there are far more knives and heavy utility blades that double as weapons.
@@Feldscher1039 Demonstrable modern use of machetes in war would seem to disagree with you. Do you think that ancient armies had less bushcutting to do than classical ones? Or that Asia lacked jungles with thick underbrush? Rifle butts get used for all sorts of things in a modern army: knocking open cans, breaking doors, etc. It may not be "proper" in some people's eyes but any gun design for everyday use in an army can't ignore these "off-label" uses.
This was my impression as well. It has a scandi grind like a bushcraft knife or woodworking tool.
@@xandercorp6175 mate, a machete is made for clearing paths. It's what it's intended to do. You could just as well claim "yeah ahm but like axes are used for wood chopping huahua", well no, wood chopping axes are used for wood chopping. Fighting axes are not, because they are pretty shit at it and would break. Machetes are used for clearing a path through dense vegetation. Swords are not. That's why they use machetes for it.
I have an idea for a video: I wanna see hedge trimming using a sword. Every time I see a hedge that is in need of trimming, I think to myself, what if I had a sword and just cut at the hedge, would it work as a hedge trimmer? I want to see som serious hedge sculpting, using a sword, or perhaps pruning an apple tree using a sword. I want you to explore what sword is most suitable for the job etc. A longsword? A tulwar? I really need to know more about the art of sword hedge trimming.
The dominance of the Dao in the military was also influenced (perhaps decisively) by the much simpler basic minimum skill level needed to use it effectively compared to the Jian.
There is an old Chinese saying that it takes 10 years to master the Jian, but only 1 for the Dao, with the implication that Jian masters are superior in skill than Dao masters.
We need to bear in mind the modern, professional military standing armies were very rare in ancient China. There were small, elite guard forces maintained during peacetime, but for war, it was very much a numbers game of massed conscript armies.
As such having the Dao as the standard issue weapon made a lot of sense as it both reduced the length of time needed to train your conscripts before they can be effectively deployed in combat/conscripts who had the same amount of time and training would be more effective in combat with Daos than Jians; and married with the simpler (quicker and cheaper) construction just made more sense overall.
The Jian still survived in military use as mainly an officer class weapon, and was a much higher status weapon because of the implied greater skill of the owner, hence why civilian nobles much preferred it over the Dao as status symbols, and even in modern times Jians are seem as much more desirable than Daos for Chinese collectors and enthusiasts.
Given the average life expectancy (two or three major engagements) for the dudes on the shield lines, you needed a pretty simple system. We know from procurement records that Dao far outnumbered Jian in at least the Ming and Qing eras. However, 18th century records seem to indicate that in at least parts of China, military and militia warehouses usually had some jian. Records of interrogations from the Wang Lun uprising, for example, seem to indicate that having skill in two-sided swords was worth noting among civilian rebels.
For anyone who is interested in this timeperiod that these weapons came from (Chu era & Han era), the film "The Last Supper" (2012) takes place around this era and portrays it with relatively decent accuracy. Here is a clip: ruclips.net/video/gopJ-WofgCA/видео.html This film actually use costumes, weapons, and armor that are "reasonably" accurate and close to the timeperiod (as opposed to other Chinese or non-Chinese media that portray this timeperiod but use costumes & equipment that are anachronistic by many centuries or a thousand+ years). However, this is not an action film but more of a historical psychological drama, so the people expecting lots of action may be disappointed.
Thanks, this looks like a good film.
The ring pommel is made so its a good hand stopper but also very light, so it almost don't change the point of balance. This is a good thing for a slashing sword, because it makes it cut better in the entire length of blade.
Try to tie a silk or cotton cloth to the ring and when using is wrap it around the hand and it will give you a great grip.
I like these Chinese sword reviews and history. thanks Matt
Great review and discussion! The rings had animals in them based on the class of the owner of the sword. Some of the korean equivalents, the hwandudaedo, even had full clan crests in the ring. Not sure where the idea of hanging them off digits came from, can't say I've ever seen that done. Hanging them for storage or attaching a rope to tie the sword to the hand for cavalry use or long battles was also done, at least with the korean hwandudaedo. I'm not an expert in Chinese swords however, so there may have been discrepancies in korean and chinese practices.
Nice looking sword. I'm enjoying the LK Chen reviews.
My guess is the ring pommel is for storage more than anything else.
It makes sense for an arsenal weapon that they might make it easy to hang on rods in large numbers.
Nah, it's clearly a bottle opener.
@@itsapittie don't think so, in arsenal a sword is stored in his scabbard and then in a rack or a crate, why go with the problem of putting rods on the walls for your hundred thousands swords?
but it don't give you any advantage in storage more than different types of simple flat pommels or caps
@@fabiovarra3698 you could be right, we're all just guessing. However, if I were in charge of an arsenal I wouldn't store a sword in it's wooden or leather sheath because it promotes rust. The purpose of the ring nothwithstanding, they probably stored the swords separate from the sheaths, whether they hung them or stacked them.
The ring pommel could be a cheap and sturdy way of keeping the hand locked in without adding too much weight.
Would the original steel dao and jian always have been spring steel? I know you mentioned coming across experiments with originals in private collections where they did flex them and they were spring, but i recall in an older video about a different topic where you mentioned that katanas of some certain period were not made of spring steel, and i was wondering if the related chinese swords were ever commonly made of non spring steel.
Having a ring pommel, it allows the use of a wrist cord which also prevents your hand from sliding into the blade so the hilt less isnt a problem when it comes to thrusting. Most of the non-ring pommel tends to have a wider guard.
Never been interested in Chinese swords before but these reviews are starting to change my mind.
I agree to your review. I own one of these and the first thing I noticed was the sharp edges of the guard. These can really hurt when stabbing with the sword. But aside from this the sword is really well made and handles really great.
The armour evolution between the Warring States period and the Han Dynasty to Three Kingdoms periods was that the lamellar armour went from predominantly rawhide (for the common soldier), to more bronze or steel plates. That might not have made slashing more effective, but it might have made thrusting less effective or more damaging to the blades. But since these are side arms, these considerations are probably secondary to the economic one.
Another idea is the unification of the Chinese states. While the Qin Dynasty unified China, it only lasted 20 odd years. The Han Dynasty was the first long term empire, so standardizing of the equipment of soldiers from multiple clans/tribes/nations/traditions might have been a sort of identity building exercise.
After watching many blacksmithing videos, I think if the ring was made out of the same material as the tang and not forge-welded on, it would be easier to hot-punch a hole and drift it (enlarge it), than take a tang and bend its end in a circle (around 13:35).
The transition from thrusting to cutting as the primary mode of sword combat came from the increased importance of cavalry in the Han armies. The main force of Han was cavalry, and those daos were calvary weapon.
The ring pommel could be use to have a string loop that would keep the hand from sliding up the blade.
If you notice in period carvings the wrist has what seems to be a band around it.
I might have heard, that the ring attached to the grip is used for attaching a strap to tied to the user's wrist, so that the blade won´t be easily lost during fight, especially on horse back. But I am not sure whether there are some references to prove that, or whether it is true at all.
These swords keep getting more interesting.
The military equipment of that general period of Chinese history is interesting itself.
My theory is that the dao pommel is used to bind the dao to the user via the forearm or waist belt.
Probably moreso for later eras, Sui, Tang etc.
Basically, if the wrapping is done right, it could resolve the issue of slippage when it comes to the stab and aid in weapon recovery.
Got to love the little blades.👍🏼👍🏼
When you are done with these reviews I would love an interview with LK Chen, or someone else at the company.
YES! That image from Princess Mononoke you saw me share haha
Could use a strap attached to the ring to retain the sword and serve as a hand stop. Could also attach heraldic decorative elements to the rings as well. Streamers, ribbons and the like.
I think conflict with the Xiongnu (Huns) was a major influence on the Han military, perhaps they influenced the adoption of the dao.
Technically, daos (single edged blades) had been around for centuries before the Han-Xiongnu wars. The Xiongnu might have influenced its design (eg. geared towards mass production), but the dao had already been adopted and used for a long time by then. Furthermore, the Xiongnu are not the Huns, and there is only some indirect evidence that the Huns may have been the distant descendants of some of the Northern/Northwestern Xiongnu who migrated west and intermingled with many other tribes and peoples.
It's debatable whether the Xiongnu were "Huns".
@@Meevious How did the Qing rebuild Chinese society from scratch? The Manchu conquest was successful in the first place due to half of the Ming generals being disillusioned/angry at the administration, betraying the emperor and siding with Manchus. The Manchus inherited the same Han Chinese bureaucracy, societal order and culture. They enforced certain elements of Manchu culture that were superficial and unimportant in significance. Later on they assimilated so much into the culture, today it's hard to discern Northern Han and Manchus. Their own culture is now endangered, by their own doing.
As a matter of fact I'd argue the Qing, instead of tearing down Chinese society, reinforced it even more for the purpose of stability. Since they were a small ruling minority that could've been ousted by a whim, they did everything they could to encrust themselves into Chinese society. They promoted inter-marriage, and let themselves to be absorbed into the Han gene pool. Gave up on their own language. They enforced Confucianism fanatically. Thus this society that has taken Confucianism to the extreme later became unable to adapt to groundbreaking new innovations.
The Mongols did that too but on a lesser scale that's why they got kicked out in less than a century.
@@Meevious I never said China was 100% never influenced or conquered. And Im not some Han supremacist I'm half Manchu myself.
You make it seem that all Chinese emperors gave away their daughters. When in fact it was the opposite more often than not. So which part of the last 2 millenia were of "foreign rule"? Yuan, 100 years. Qing, 300 years. I think you need to go back to math class.
The 8 Banner army is just an army division separated by ethnicity, but with an officialized 8 ethnicities, how alien! It definitely wasn't that way before! The Manchu queue was just sign of how Manchus were insecure about being a minority they used Confucianism to make people display their "loyalty" publicly. This is exactly what I meant by superficial and unimportant changes.
It was indeed illegal for a Han commoner to marry a Manchu woman. But you also forgot the Qing actively encouraged Han bannermen and Manchu marriage, and Han bannermen immigration to Manchuria. By the end of the Qing, "Manchuria" was 95% Han.
They were deeply insecure about their position which is why they spent 300 years trying to encrust themselves and secure their seat. To the point where they suppressed any groundbreaking tech, societal change. They limited trade, exploration, any attempt at decentralizing their power. Yes that's why they didn't get ousted on a whim. But when they did, they became so fragile they practically vanished.
@@Meevious So you include the Sixteen Kingdoms, Northern and Southern and Liao dynasties as conquest of China proper when it's just Northern nomads with part of the northern territories and adopted Chinese customs.
And even when you add these together it barely breaks 600 years if I'm being generous. Yes, retake the math classes.
They definitely influenced Chinese culture just like Turkic nomads. But you're saying they ruled over all of China which is just false lmao. I don't have an agenda, you're just saying falsehoods. What's your agenda?
With a ring its easy to have a kind of lanyard the length of the handle e use it to prevent the hand from sliping to the blade when thrusting. You could hold the lanyard along the handle with the hand inside the loop.
Alternative theory for the ring could be for storage in an armory. All you need is a row of pegs and slide the ring on it. If your storing 100k swords space efficiency is key
What i want Matt to review is the Gale Wind from LK Chen, a beautiful and affordable Ming Jian.
According to LK Chen the pattern varies between the one you said, this one, and another one, depending on how the folding spreads the slag.
If I've taken anything away from your videos it's that everything about weapon design must be considered in context.
In Europe and elsewhere other than China, stabby weapons were largely used to find the gaps in armor while slicey weapons were for unarmored opponents. Largely.
Is that the case in the transition from the stabby jian to the slicey dao in China? Was there a change in who they were expecting to fight, from mostly armored to mostly unarmored opponents?
Also, about those sharp-edged and -cornered fittings; I notice that the scabbard itself has a very sharply rectangular cross-section. This suggests a rather more general sweeping stylistic change which might also show up in other military or even civilian artifacts of the transition period. I'm at least as ignorant of Chinese history as you are but we have seen similar things in other countries' militaries, right?.
Before Han, they were pretty much just fighting civil wars. So the opponents had similar technology and had access to armor. In Han dynasty, they were fighting so-called Xiongnu people in the north. Xiongnu were nomadic and I suppose they might have less access to armor but have more mobility. So it does sense I guess.
it's worth mentioning that Han did not only fight against the Xiongnu people, there were a lot of infighting as well. during the period, the lower ranked you are in the military, the less coverage you get in terms of armor. the lowest of the infantry had only the shield for protection, move up the pecking order a little bit you'd get a modest lamellar chest piece that only covers the torso and leaves the shoulders and arms exposed. when you consider the meta during the time relied heavily on infantry it makes sense for the dao to become relevant--infantry soldiers were very under-armored
@@wor575 So are you in agreement with my guess about the design of the weapon following the perceived need by the military that ordered them?
@@markfergerson2145 I certainly do. And on top of already mentioned points there was also the fact that a dao or any saber-type weapon is easier to use and maintain
in china, armor is vastly different historically than it is in other parts of the world. They're one of the few cultures that never bothered with mail and pretty much skipped plate armor in any significant scale. The number of soldiers typically fielded made it prohibitively expensive to armor all but elite troops and most of their external enemies were tribal nomads, so not really heavily armored either.
in the period in which the Jian was popular, warfare was a formalized ritual that was more akin to a series of one-on-one fights between champions and nobles than large scale clashes. Which probably why a jian shares a lot in common with the later european rapier, when dueling became more likely than close packed melee.
during and after the 'warring states' period, when things like honor fell by the wayside, swords better suited for use by and against commoners became more practical, since armies massively scaled up in size and most of the peasant levy soldiers relied on nothing but a shield and helmet for protection. So you go from the finely crafted jian to the much more utilitarian dao.
armor is a massive expense for an army, when you're fielding armies in the hundreds of thousands and policing an area as large as China... yea, that's an expense you can probably do without in a lot of cases. Especially if your biggest threat is usually rebellious nobles, in which case you want their armies relatively squishy.
Have you considered screwing a clamp to the side of the stump that you can put the branches in vertically to cut them?
it's interesting, is there any relation between transition fron jian to dao and the intensification of wars with the northern nomads?
Maybe a video of all of your Chen swords together? Love the two here. Just got turned on to the L.K. Chen swords, love to see more and your thoughts about them. Excellent video as always sir!! Stay safe and God bless 🇺🇸☠️🇺🇸 🇬🇧🤺💂!!!
I think the ring pommel is for ease of storage in the armory. it makes it super simple to hang them on a peg of some sorts
Very interesting sword and great video. Could the ring be used for something like a Portepée? That would still work with the later decorations...
If I was in charge of a massive peasant army, I think the ring on the pummel could serve two purposes.
1) Decoration: Colored ribbons might help identify units on a battlefield.
2) Tie the sword to their wrist, so they stop dropping the thing in combat.
I think I like the idea of the ring yet I’ve never used it but seems like great idea
One for the algorithm. I have nothing of note to say.
The dimensional design of the sword was surprising.. I thought it was just straight but apparently with the very slight increase of the size at the end of the blade which was barely noticeable lends weight to the cuts. Agreed the design of the hand guard means this dao is for cutting not for stab. The pommel can allow lanyards to be tied so warriors don't lose the weapon in the heat of war and as a as stop so you don't lose the weapon when u swing it. Without the slight dimensional increase this sword would have been questionable in any kind of battle. Impressed wit the ancient Chinese sword design.
You mentioned the possibility of the ring being a hand stop. If it was, then that would be an excellent way of adding a hand stop without also adding a lot of extra weight.
Matt, did you do a review of that messer behind you? I think it's one of the ones you got from Landsknecht Emporium and I can find reviews of the two bigger ones but not the smaller one.
I just ordered one. I was sold on it from back in the day, what with swordsage and all,, but "pulled the trigger" on the dao just now.
I think I remember an Asian History Prof. said originally the Japanese got their swords from the Chinese and they were straight single edged. After the swords had become curved laws were passed to stop Chinese imports. I last took an Asian history class 15 or 16 years ago, AND I now have a memory issue.
the katana is indeed descended from this general shape of sword (known as 'ken' to the japanese). They were the primary sword of the japanese samurai class until the mongol invasions, when locally produced versions made of japanese iron proved way too brittle for use in large scale warfare (native japanese iron is some of the lowest quality in the world, due to many impurities in the iron veins themselves). So they beefed up the blades, changed the forging process, and during that forging process the blades took on their now characteristic curve. (all katana blades are initially straight, they curve during the quenching phase due the to higher carbon content along the edge than in the spine). This was refined into the katana we all know.
after this the japanese preferred to import raw iron and forge the swords themselves as opposed to chinese pattern blades, which they found ill-suited to their newer styles of warfare.
I would pass a lanyard loop thru the ring at the end to increase the power I can use for stabbing. There's an image from Russia showing their cavalry with their sabres hanging from their arms while they use bow and arrow.
A knotted silk sash in your units colours would also be easy to tie onto a ring pommel too, don't you think?
Ring pommel are there for having string tie to it and wrap around your arm so you don’t drop the sword or have your hand slide onto the blade.
I do not know much about Chinese swordsmanship. Is there any evidence they may have used the ring pommel for some sort of sword knot to help secure the sword in the hand?
Is there any evidence of sword knots used in China at the time? That ring (also on the Hidden Hilt one) would be perfect for that “dangling the blade” for pole arms and bow use.
Could prevent you slipping up the blade, too. Like the loop an a skiing pole.
Sword knots were certainly used on slightly later types of dao.
Perhaps a ring (hollow pommel) makes sense when the primary focus of the sword is chopping and need the weight more near of the tip and lose some maneuverability but still need a hard stop and avoid the sword going fly by the centrifugal force, just a thought.
PD: a ring also helps to avoid the pommel to get stuck in thing like clothes or similar, unlike a large and simple T design
Is it possible that the loop pommel was used in conjunction with a strap or loop of cord that would stop your hand slipping up onto the blade, Like is used with machetes with a saw back?
Also could the change from thrust style blades to cutting blades be to do with expanding armies and arming less skilled swordsmen!? Sort of a chop and go style