Can 25-Year-Old Tech Defeat Modern QRM?
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- Опубликовано: 15 окт 2024
- Today's Ham Radio shacks are besieged by an army of QRM generating devices that play havoc with a rig's ability to receive weaker stations. Is there any hope for older non-IF DSP rigs?
Tracy, may I pass along my compliments on the quality of your video. Descriptions and images were presented in a great way. I learned much about audio filtering from your video. Thank you.
Thank you for leaving your comment, Gene. It's much appreciated.
Thanks Tracy!
Have one of those Timewave DSP 9 units here, picked up at a hamfest for $40. It works well on my old Yaesu FRG7700.
Also have a Timewave DSP 599ZX, which seems scarce on the 2nd hand market, but is the best Timewave made IMO.
Great video which shows that older tech is still very useful today.
Hi Andy, thank you for sharing your experience. Having tried the DSP-9, I'd like to see how well one of their newer units perform.
Tracy, I look forward to your videos. Whether demonstrating HOW best to get outdoors, on the air or reviewing a piece of kit. You are fair, objective and a worthy instructor. Thank you!
Thank you very much. I truly appreciate your comments!
Thanks for the demo! I once had an Autek Research QF-1A Filter that I wish I had back. You could Zero in on any frequency like a Laser beam and cancel it out. But it required lots of hands on tuning unlike the Timewave.
Nice to hear your thoughts on the Autek. Thank you for your contribution to the discussion.
Nice comparison! I have the DSP module by the "bhi" installed into my FT-817ND for many years now and it makes this little radio literally one class up and still very much competitive on the market! 73! Linas LY2H
thanks, the radio I use for receiving AM dx though is a c crane skywave "eventually I do want to get the ssb plus edition of it" and a lot of the time I listen 20 meters AM DX on a frequency of 14.286 MHz as the radio mentioned above is only for AM reception anyway.
Nice video! Personally I prefer the sound and the intelligibility of the Timewave DSP-9, it sounds more bright and clear.
Thank you for sharing your experience!
I have just bought a dsp9 and i must say it's raining rather good.
Nice video. My DSP-9+ was a lifesaver with my IC-735 (both are now on my to-be-sold shelf)
I own one of those that I bought new (in the early 1980s) and several years ago I purchased a second one (higher end model) for use with my boatanchor tube rigs. IMO they work great and were way ahead of their time with this device. Definitely a worthwhile purchase.
Thank you for sharing your experience, Ken.
Very thorough test and demo! I’ve been thinking about taking my little West Mountain CLRdsp out in the field with the 817 to see how it works.
Thank you, Chris! I hope people who read this comment will check out your RUclips channel. You've done some good work over there!
ruclips.net/channel/UCDQC6quz4FkktOi60n5iY8Afeatured
Outdoors On The Air Thanks so much Tracy!
Tracy that's a really good look as i have the same rig with same problem so will look into getting one of these. Great information thank you. 73
Thank you very much!
Thank you, Tracy. I only have one rig, FT-817, therefore this is good info. I will see about getting one.
73, Christian, VE2MW
Thank you for letting me know, Chris!
I love my old Timewave. It's looks older than yours. I still enjoy my O'l faithful Kenwood TS-830 & 530, so the Timewave completes the package!
Thank you for sharing your experience!
DSP-9 is a powerful Audio filter.
I am a new ham and the FT-818ND is my first and only HF transceiver. I'm still researching HF antennas that fits my environment and budget. Anyhow, it's good to know that there are some good, inexpensive DSP boxes out there if the need arises. I enjoy all of your videos, by the way. Thanks for all you do. 73, KD2PUW
Thank you for your support, Jason! 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
I love your videos! Very well thought out and well presented. Very informative as well. Thanks for your contributions to the hobby.
Thank you very much, Daniel!
Tracy, love the videos and all the info! Did you try the Timewave on your old Icom?
Thank you! Yes I did and it worked well!
Great review and you left no stones un-turned. Great job explaining the limitations too, I think a lot of people think all these "tools" available are a magic bullet and are disappointed by the results then give a bad review. That certainly is a great audio DSP, I was surprised at the clarity of the processed audio. I'm not a great fan of the DSP sound, and I sold all my modern commercial gear and left only my trusty Elecraft K2 rig because I like the low noise floor and analog audio it has. Your demonstration certainly shows the possibilities with such a unit. I have owned a couple of different more modern audio DSP units in the past (each one was quite expensive too) and neither if them came close to this one. I think you just raised the price of any working DSP-9 :) Keep up the great work!
Thank you (and thanks for sharing your experience)!
For a few years my 897d and 817 were my primary radios, I had a Hustler 5btv - talk about noise! Yikes! I bought my IC-746pro after I had my 897 for awhile, once I had my new 746pro hooked up and on my bench, I had thought something was seriously wrong with it because of the lack on QRN and QRM I was pleasantly surprised! I continued to use my 897d for strictly digital modes back when PSK31 was at the peak of popularity. I sold my 897 to a friend who wanted to get into digital modes. The 897 was a cool rig but my then 817 was fine for portable use. All of this took place around 20 years ago, I still have my ic746pro ( just did alignment work and put a new light in the display) I wanted to get a digital AF filter but bought an IC-7000 to replace my 897d ( used too much power for portable use) but between the 897 and 817 ( now a 818nd) I've had a lot of fun and made lots of contacts with those 2 radios. Glad you have that filter to get the maximum use from those good ol rigs. Oh I started my ham radio career with a Heathkit HW-101 I learned to ride the RF gain for noise. I'm spoiled now with DSP. 73
Thank you for sharing your experience! I too am a fan of the 746Pro.
Perhaps will be more interesting for local, electrical city qrms a qrm eliminator with
two antennas out phase model box. For me this works fine in my noise qth. Anyway also the dsp AF can help. Some people think that AF dsp only give you certain commodity for fatigue listening but this type AF dsp really works because they are adaptive and learn looking for voice signals inside the noise. I rescued some dx by my kenwood ts2000 AF dsp in nr1 and nr2. Timewave it's a great company for professional audio plugins software in the music studios. Thanks for the video! Very nice edition! 73s EA4IS
Thank you for your comment! 73 from VE3TWM.
That thing worked way better than I was expecting it too. Nice.
Thank you for your comment!
Great job Tracy, I always find your videos engaging and informative. The DSP 9 does a pretty darn good job. I added the BHI AF DSP (kbrd built in) to my 897D. It works great as well and has 8 filter settings. Only the top setting makes things sound a bit underwater. I also have the ANC-4. Note, it is NOT the same thing as DSP. While the ANC-4 can null out certain signals if conditions and your receiving antenna are right, DSP does a far better job and is a greater source of radio enjoyment day in and day out. The key thing I have found with the BHI is that the signal must be above the noise floor for DSP to do it's work. The further above it is, the more the effect. At 2 S units above, and at a 6 or 7 setting, it is near FM quality (not quite as full fidelity but that is how DSP works). Thanks again for your conscientious reviews!
Hi Rick, thank you very much for your informative comment. I appreciate your description of the difference between DSP noise filtering and the ANC-4. Good point as well in regard to how effective the DSP is in reference to the noise floor.
73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Excellent Video, glad to see love for the 897 and 817! These are my only rigs!
Thank you!
Very good video and demonstration. I personally use the BHI desk speaker and get fantastic results in my very noisy environment. I am very impressed with the performance of your unit considering its age. Very useful addition to the shack. Karl. M0KRL
Thank you for sharing your experience, Karl.
Very nice video. Thanks for posting. I've found over the years that QRM and QRN are "occupational hazards" in Ham Radio. Neither this radio's built-in DSP or the Timewave DSP did anything to improve the listenability of the incoming signals or sound quality. In fact, they both muffled it, making it difficult to hear each word. The concept of noise reduction is a tricky subject, because electronics (either at the IF stage or as add-on audio DSP filtering) have a difficult time separating noise from signal,
since both are entering the radio mixed together. The best device I've found to separate noise from audio is a device called "The Human Brain." Once you develop your listening skills, and listening ability is truly a skill, you can learn to put up with the mix of audio and noise, then ignore the noise while picking out the desired voice or CW keying. Many Hams never develop their critical listening skills because they haven't been put in situations where they were forced to listen critically.
I suggest joining nets and working stations in contests. With band conditions near the eleven year Sun spot cycle low, you will have to really stretch your ear to pick out DX and even local stations to confirm contacts, but the more you subject your ears (and the computer that resides between them) to this frustrating situation, the better you yourself, to achieve the best signal processing possible.
Thank you for your opinion.
I personally own several Timewave AF DSP units. I have the DSP9, DSP599, and a DSP599zx. Of all of them the simple DSP9 is my favorite. I use them mainly with the RL Drake gear I collect and some older receivers such as the Icom R71A, National HRO Sixty, and other collectibles I own. Years ago I made a video showing the DSP9 on my RUclips account using a Ten-Tec Omni 6 (non option 3 no DSP). These units work great for older rigs and are better by far than the old DSP speaker by RadioShack and other cheap solutions. These units can be found quite inexpensively on eBay or sometimes at you local Hamfest. Since these units are add-on external AF DSP filters, you won’t need them for more modern rigs with built in IF or AF DSP. But if you have an older radio these are definitely worth trying! Good video, I think it will help out those with noise running older pre DSP era radios. 73 de Nick N9SJA
Thank you for sharing your experience and wisdom, Nick! I hope the people who read this will check out your RUclips channel. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
This video has given me far more confidence in purchasing a FT-818. As a sound engineer it’s very clear that “DSP noise reduction” is doing nothing more than using an EQ curve to filter off the very highest frequencies of noise, the appearance of less noise coincidentally reducing the high frequency content of the voice also, making the audio sound more muffled than before. The EXACT same outcome could be achieved with a graphic EQ and in fact using such a device could be used to boost the frequencies most important for intelligibility (2-4kHz), thus giving a far better quality product than even the most sophisticated DSP options available in radios.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I need to remove the inter city electrified train line's at the end of our street to be able to get on hf at home qth even with a dsp rig. Bring back Steam Trains at least with them the only QRM was an occasion whistle easily removed with headphones.😆😊..Great Video 👍👍
Wow, and I thought I had QRM issues. Hey, maybe you can operate some HF Portable! Thank you for your comments, Steve.
I prefer the BHI DSP over the Timewave for my FT817 and FT897 that I use. One note both do distort the signal to some degree. They do work but do not beat the SDR radios that sample the RF and can do much more filtering. The smallest lowest power rig that uses this advanced architecture is the Elecraft KX2. This is most likely my next portable radio. Thank you for showing this and I agree it extends the usefulness of older radios.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Built in DSP is always the better job as they treat the problems within the radios IF as the add on filter trys to filter the audio which can leave trace elements of QRM
True.
Many thanks Tracy Hhere in UK we need to eliminate BT and Ofcom... Bt make the noise Ofcom do nothing .. thanking you
Try line isolators to get rid of the noise?
Great video. I dealt with QRM for a while until I installed the economical BHI dsp board into my 817... totally new radio. Of course, the processed signal has a bit of a digital sound to it, but I have absolutely no problem with that! It will work in the 857 and manufactured for other radios as well. Ironically, I use the 817 in the field where there is little if any QRM but nice to have onboard anyhow when used in an urban environ. 73! K7GYB
Thank you for your comment, David! I always enjoy reading about your experiences. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
I highly recommend the SOTAbeams "Laserbeam" DSP units, especially the variable bandwidth unit.
Thank you for your recommendation.
The audio from your radios was Plenty loud but Your voice coulda been louder. I can always turn you Down but UP only goes so far. Is it the mic on the camera ? My hearing is generally fine....
Thank you for the constructive criticism, I really do appreciate it. For this video and all my earlier videos, I used the internal mic built into the cameras. I have since purchased a good quality USB mic for videos I shoot in my shack, which has resulted in much better audio. This channel has been a real learning experience for me in regard to video production.
Thank you, couldn’t agree more. Great video!
Thank you!
I purchased a TW DSP 9 at a local hamfest a few years ago for ten bucks. It does wonders for my DX-SR8T! I work mostly 40m cw. The 100hz filter setting is a real squeeze box! I agree about passing over signals without hearing while it is on. I am going to buy a few more 9's when time permits.
73 es gud DX
de kc5ngx
Thank you for your telling us about your experience, John. 73 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Very nice video my friend.
Thank you, Angel!
You will be surprised what external AF DSP can do. Yes IF is better but the AF can really help tremendously. 73!
True! 73 from VE3TWM.
BHI DSP has great static reduction for audio but that’s only what it’s great for ! I compared it to the newest Timewave and BHI was so much better hands down ! This was just for Your info.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Great job as usual! Thank you for the info.
Thank you, David!
Ripper unit. Thanks for the vid.
You're welcome!
Well. I didn't know these DSP-9 Timewave noise reducer. I did hear of a JPS ANC-4 which was later made by Timewave... I did have very severe QRN on all bands but 80 meters was the worst with 9 of noise day & night.... I couldn't find a new ANC-4 but found a used one in great condition, and it is great it just reduces the noise on every band, but when some neighbours moved recently, so did My noise level.... So, now I have noise some times but over all it is very quiet, but because I can bring in Pre Amps on My FTDX-3000, naturally the noise returns so the ANC-4 does reduce the noise by 3-4 S points.... I am still learning how to operate MY FTDX-3000 Radio using all the DSP features it has.... There was an Australian Contest on a couple of weekends ago, along with a large band of LIGHTNING so the crashes were nearly continous which made contacts difficult and I could hear many stations not being able to hear the station calling them but I could hear them all by using the new found DSP items in the menu etc...... I believe these stations had their Radios at a normal RX condition instead of trying to get those stations they couldn't hear... VK2LEE LEE
Thank you for sharing your experience, Lee.
As always, .....great advise
Thank you!
very enjoyable video
Thank you!
I find that the older I get my hearing is losing fidelity - therefore the DSP audio is muddy and I miss conversations.. So I don't know what the answer is. The timewave seems more intelligible to me so I think it's the winner
These units are good...but i would buy a timewave ANC-4....or JPS ANC-4..same unit but cheaper price as timewave bought them over...this unit really takes care of local noise and with dsp unit it should clean a signal up..look at youtube for anc-4 demo
I actually have looked at them and would love to get my hands on one. I'll keep looking and definitely make a video if it works out.
Tracy, first of all, thank you for your nice videos. Their quality from your care is evident. This one is no exception. But I am puzzled. In 2014 you did FD using an Icom IC-7200 that possessed the requisite filtering you describe here. What became of it and why did you switch?
72 de William, k6whp
Hi William, you're welcome. Thank you for the kind comments. I put a lot of work into these videos and it's gratifying when someone notices.
I actually sold the 7200 (a rig I really liked) to fund the purchase of the 897D. The 7200 is a nice rig, but consumes 3x the current on receive that the 897D does. I can operate much longer in the field with the 897D.
72 from Tracy VE3TWM.
Tracy, makes perfect sense. Thanks and keep up the good work!
Excellent video. Thank you! 73 PA5BAS
Thank you, Bas!
Add a bhi dsp to the older yaesu rigs. Rivals the dsp in my 991a.
Thank you for sharing your experience.
Very interesting indeed.👍
thank you for your comment!
Good review + demonstration, seems doing it's job but from what i can hear from your video, it does not really make the audio any better, all it does is reducing the overall noise level, reducing RF gain and a trained ear may probably do an equally good job , ....In fact, i never missed something like that with my IC751 nor with the IC745. The on-board noise blanker, pass band tuning and IF shift does the job good enough and if i still can't hear it,.. that's just life on the Ham bands ... Another point over here is that we are limited to 400W PEP, usually makes not much sense fishing a weak signal out of the noise when the other side does 1kW+, he just won't hear me anyway.
It's probably my mindset, too as i generally don't like those computer radios which you can't repair anymore, ...might be an age thing...:-)
Thank you for weighing in with your thoughts. You are exactly correct of course, in that older rigs can be used just as they are in many environments in the hands of a skilled operator.
I hope others reading this check out your RUclips channel, you've posted some interesting stuff over there.
Very good. Thanks for doing this! 73
Thank you! 73 from VE3TWM.
I think 25 years of age was when my license expired. I studied and got my license long ago. But the entry level license offered no HF operating privileges and I had little interest on VHF and UHF. I just kept listening to my scanner, instead, and the license went stale and died. I do not even remember the call sign. The interest is still with me. But it is with HF. 6 meters is rarely used. 2 meters is sporadic and FM repeaters mainly. 70 centimeters is rarely used, and I think 23 centimeters is not used at all. Last I heard the entry level license still offers almost no HF band privileges. I think 10 meters is it. It is just a crippled tiny fragment of 10 and only one voice mode can be used and data and CW. I believe there are micro snippets of CW bands on 15, 40, and 80. I never hear anything on the 10 meter band. But with zero sunspots and solar flux indexes hovering around 65, there is little chance of hearing anything on 10 meters. The band is closed up really hard. Thus, I will not be getting a license again anytime soon. I just listen in. I still have the exact same scanner from when I was 25. I am 48 now. I now have an SDR tuner on my computer, as well. I can listen to everything on all analogue modes from 100 kilocycle to 1.5 gigacycles on the AOR scanner. On the SDR tuner I can listen from 500 kilocycles to 2.8 gigacycles in all analogue and digital modes. So light up the bands operators! I need something to listen to on my computer and scanner.
First off, love your handle. The Mothman Prophecies book is a fascinating read (as is most John Keel stuff). Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I would encourage you to go for your license. One step at a time. From what I've been hearing, the sunspots will come back, maybe in the next 2-3 years. Then 10 will be hopping. That might inspire you to go to the next licensing level. 73 from VE3TWM.
I bought a DSP-9 when they first came out. It really cleared up the audio from my Argonaut! I hope to set it up with my FT897 some day and see how they work together :)
Thank you for sharing your experience!
The 857/897's DSP does not work at all, it's nothing but an audio BPF, both radios suffer from internal noise, phase noise etc.. disconnect the antenna and turn up the volume, you'll see what I'm talking about.
BHI DSP is the answer. Best of dsp and low power consumption of the older rigs.
Thank you for your advice.
would have been nicer to see a newer model that is still in production that others could purchase today. its nice if you luck up on the model you showed but not likely everyone will run across one.
True.
My BHI makes every thing sound under water and you got to take the rig apart kg6mn
Hi Jerome, thank you for adding to the conversation. I've heard some nice things about the BHI so it's very interesting to hear your observation.
Well, there was more QRM 25 yrs ago, so the answer would be yes.
In my shack, I've definitely got more QRM now than 25 years ago.
Hum let me look in my junk box. Yep I still have one
Nice! Any other hidden gems in there?
Very good example I love it VU3TSH
Thank you!
I wish my noise levels were as low as yours. I get S8 to S9 on 40m it makes my hobby worthless, and not much less on other bands.
See if you can find a Timewave ANC-4 (originally made by JPS). Though I have not been able to acquire one for myself, yet, I've heard great things about their ability to allow operations in environments where QRM is too high. Alternatively, do what I do and go HF Portable, where the noise is non-existent :)
@@OutdoorsOnTheAir I have tried an MJF 1026 which is similar, and because I ahve houses all round me, and the noise is from all directions, it was not a solution even though I had a vertical receive antenna for maximum null.
IC740 old haha I have a mint IC701 and power pack with built in speaker lol now that's an old girl but what I call a real radio making you work the radio and not just press another button nice video just found your channel 75;s 2E0OOW
701, nice! Thank you for your comment...73 from VE3TWM.
I can tell you that the 2000, 130, 850 were in no way able to fight QRM. Neither the 857. In no way it does better as the more modern DSP based TRX like the 7300.
AF DSPs don't cut it at all.
Thank you for sharing your experience, Roeland.
I remember years ago when all the talk was DSP, it turns out to be a disappointing technology. I prefer true analog / mechanical audio and IF filters over there. The artificial sound DSP creates is more annoying than the noise they mask.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this topic. I know what you mean.
unacceptable. mewave ANC4. It seems to work fairly well. However. It attenuates my transmit level and it should not. It is hooked up per instructions. My problem with time wave is that I've written them three times now for help. No reply on all three tries. I find this to be unacceptable. I will not but another Time wave product or give a positive review on what I have purchased.
Sorry to hear about your bad experience, that is unacceptable. However, you do realize the video is about the DSP-9, and not the ANC-4, right?
I'm getting my Technician license next month 20 August 2020, and I don't even have a HAM radio. I'm a old CB single sideband operator from the mid 70's through the 80's and have decided it's time to get my ticket. I'm like you; I do not have a budget for a HAM radio since I'm a retired, 69 year old, disabled Vietnam vet. However, I still have access to a few CB radios that have been modified to go just below the 10 meter band (28 MHz). Guess I could reprogram the PLL chip to go up to 28,350 MHz.
Thank you for your comment! I think you'll have a lot of enjoyment in ham radio. If there is a local club you can join, consider it. People will help if they can.
Your wasting time. Sell your old radios. Buy a used Icom 8200, IFdsp and waterproof . Ideal for home or portable. You get one used in good ham store for 650$ with three month warranty. Sell the old gear before it breaks down, old radios are hard to fix. DSP 9 sounds washed out, yes no harsh sound but all tone is gone. Sell old gear may cost you another 200 or 300 on top. I gave you a like. It was interesting.
You raise a good point!
I thought the 897 DSP was just as good as the timewave DSP.
I think your talking about QRN not QRM.
No sir. The manmade noise at my home is usually at a much higher level than the natural noise.
my CLRDSP seems better..
Thank you for your observation.