Sued into silence! How brands try to censor independent reviews
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- This video is a reaction to the situation that recently unfolded between dCS and Goldensound as discussed on the @GoldenSound channel and @TheHEADPHONEShow
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I understand you don't want to hurt the retailers, but I won't buy from any company that strong arms reviewers.
retailers might want to sell off the last of their current DCS stocks
I agree and will not support or recommend those brands. I would love to share who they were if it were only a risk to me to do so.
@@PassionforSound gotcha, wise of you.
@@PassionforSound Completely understand. Keep up the great video content!
💯 no shot of my ever buying dCS- and that includes used.
I did once have a piece of dCS equipment - I honestly liked it, but I didn’t think it was the best thing I ever heard… well no point hearing another one now…
There are always rare exceptions, like if the company is holding your family hostage, but usually sunlight is the best disinfectant. People generally have a well developed sense of fairness. When the unsavoury facts are brought to light the bad guys are usually sent packing. Hats off to the various Andrew’s and others who spoke up on Golden Sound’s behalf. 👍🏻😊
I completely agree! If it weren't for the risk posed to the retailers in my two examples, I would be gladly sharing the names of the brands.
Great points all around.
Just to nitpick a small point: It’s worth remembering that the threats from dCS weren’t just from one employee. Involving the lawyer would have required approval from dCS leadership. Coupled with their most recent dishonest messaging about the whole scenario shows that leadership were involved and they only got rid of the most public individual from this PR fiasco. dCS has lost my business for good
Great point. It's obviously the DCS leadership that created this issue. DCS is off my list for consideration as well.
Good points. I hope dCS can recover the lost faith and trust over time, but completely understand you both feeling that way right now. I have never dealt with them so can't comment in any direction.
What appears to have happened was more nuanced than that. It appears that "John" had not been telling his bosses in the UK everything that had gone on, and seemed to have lied about what had. As a result, they agreed to having a letter sent by a lawyer about corrections to the review, but there wasn't an intent to have a legal threat. This is apparent in David's first public response (not long after he would have gotten into work on a Monday morning, no doubt with a flood of communication about the incident), which was clearly based on what John had told him, but not on the actual facts which, when they came to light, showed that John must have been lying.
@@Currawong whoa, really? WOW, that is some shady sh!t, no wonder they fired him
The CEO of dCS admits in his "apology" letter that he approved the hiring of a lawyer. Both parties are located in the UK but dCS hired a US attorney. It would have been thrown out of court for lack of standing.
If anyone wants to send me free stuff I will give a very glowing review. I have the ethical standards of a politician 😅
😂
You'll go far!
Adds to the excitement when doing an unboxing…..finding the brown envelope.
😂
Already cancelled order...DCS products will be no longer in my list.....
That's a shame, but I understand. The whole situation was a mess and I know many people are unsatisfied with dCS' final statement/apology.
@shamnoor07 perfect example of a reviewers impact on potential buyers!
What’s bizarre in all this is usually expensive boutique brands like DCS are above this junk. McIntosh & Bose have just as many haters if not more so than fans but they take the high road and are like “sorry, we can’t hear you from up here!”. It’s just noise to them and they ignore it.
@@mikeg2491Bose was massively aggressive with dealers in the past. They used to send out secret shoppers and if a store discounted the product, they would cut off supply.
Driving while making this video and discussing this topic gives it a different vibe. Looking forward to more of this type of content, Lachlan!
Yeah, an illegal vibe.
I don't like it how he glances at the camera so frequently. I'd much rather he refrains from endangering himself and others as much as possible.
I mean, I don't think there's anything outrageous here and I'm not trying to condemn anyone. Just not the best practice from a safety standpoint, which should always take priority.
If you were to film yourself driving, you'd find you regularly glance away from the road for many reasons. It's not like I'm holding eye contact with the camera for more than a second at any time (unless I had stopped at lights).
As for talking and driving, it's no different to having someone in the car with you or chatting on the phone while you drive.
@@PassionforSound I get what you're saying but in the eyes of the law, that just isn't true. Here in Canada, I could get a ticket just for looking over at my phone without even turning it on. Distracted driving is getting a lot of attention. I don't really have a problem with your video but more about the idea that this shouldn't be a move your channel should be making, as the original poster suggests. I don't think it would be a good idea.
SLAPP or intimidation lawsuits are sadly common in many sectors and I am glad Goldensound stood up to this intimidation. I watched his video last night and it was revealing. What is important as a consumer is to trust reviews. I am extremely lucky to have a great retailer in London who lets me audition gear before purchasing and, having listened to a lot of gear reviewed in various channels one soon gets to know which reviewer to trust. Stongarmed or endlessly positive reviews are a waste.
It was also fortunate that his employer stood with him.
Topping has had my posts removed from audio forums when detailing how poorly made and designed their products are. Topping of course $ponsor$ forums, and thereby forums are more than happy to comply with removal of negative light placed upon crappy Topping products. Friends don't let friends Topping.
Smsl gang rise up
Wow! That's dreadful if that's the case. It would be so much more constructive for them to respond with an explanation of the reasons for design decisions or to acknowledge and make improvements.
It's curious that I've never had any troubles from them despite being quite harsh on a number of their products (e.g. EX5)
@@nickpelayo3172 SMSL 🤌🏼
I presume this was Head-Fi, that's just sort of the way it goes there.
Topping D10B, D90SE, A90, G5 here, no issues with any of them.
When you lie down with dogs, expect to get fleas.
Nothing like a regurgitated old cliché 🥱
@@_Chev_Chelios The audio hobby has been a mess for decades and today is no different
Very well thought out video. Thanks.
I'm glad you liked it!
Any company that acts like DCS is automatically off my list for consideration. And unfortunately, even though the vast majority of companies might be good, it only takes one lawsuit to devastate a reviewer and strike fear in the rest. It's great that Goldensound, Lachlan and others have brought this to the publc exposing these unscrupulous brands.
I can understand your feelings on dCS based on the recent events, but I also think it's worth giving them a chance to prove that it really was a situation created by one bad egg.
I actually posted elsewhere on this thread that DCS posted a response on their Facebook page and encouraged people to read it before judgment.
I owned a dCS stack in the past with Elgar Plus DAC, Verdi Encore SACD transport, Purcell Upsampler. It was the worst purchase I ever made, and I lost $10k after selling them a year later. The sound wasn't better than a cheap $200 USB DAC with an undervolted laptop running Puppy Linux from RAM (no disk or display). I found that the extra power draw from the upsampling processors of dCS hurt the sound, and gave a certain edginess. This was most evident with the SACD transport using the Firewire connection. No matter how much I tweaked the dCS stack, I couldn't get rid of the noise. This is the same type of noise as when adding more wattage into a computer system. Reducing the power consumption in the system always gives smoother sound. This can be done in many ways: Choosing SSD instead of HDD, using WAV instead of FLAC, installing Linux instead of Windows, undervolting the CPU, downgrading the GPU. But the best way is to playback the music files directly from the DAC with a USB stick, if the USB input supports WAV files.
Others have commented on the dangers inherent in filming while driving and I have to say I agree. I am pretty sure a lot more of your attention is going into what you are saying when you know it is for a video.
There is a fair bit of research indicating that talking on a hands free phone carries a similar level of risk to talking on a hand held phone, and more risk than having a conversation with someone in the car.
Given that there is no relevance to the topic in hand, taking this risk seems unnecessary.
While this may seem a bit po faced and patronising, we want you intact to make more vids, so back to your desk young man. 😉
Thanks Jim. I don't feel like it's any different from talking to a person sitting with me in the car (or on the phone). I value safety on the road and would/will stop recording if I sense any loss of ability/reaction time/awareness of the road on my part.
@passionforsound would be singing karaoke to Hanson if he wasn’t talking to us. I am not sure what’s more dangerous while driving 😂
@@PassionforSoundThe evidence is relatively clear, though. It's not safe, even if you feel like it is.
@Chuckster0 😂
Is there research around speaking to a passenger in the car, Jim? I'm curious where the increased risk is coming from - if it's the conversation or something specific to the target of the conversation.
Very cool! Kudos to you, Lachlan.
Erin’s audio corner and tekton was a tough one. Meze audio has been a terrific partner with reviewers
It would help to restore trust if all reviewers made a full disclosure of the provenance of review samples: i.e. manufacturer loan, manufacturer gift, purchased from manufacturer at a discount, purchased at retail, loan from distributor, loan from channel viewer, etc l
That's a great point, Ace. Meze are amazing at allowing open and honest reviews without retaliation and they also seem to listen to feedback too.
@@jazzandcocktails7 wave theory is super good ar this if you watch his reviews. He will run a bit long with 45 min reviews but he goes into full details such as provenance.
Great message ... we all hope that the reviews (that we may rely on to make a purchase) are honest but we also know that the situations that you highlighted are also in play, so there's some conflict of interest that can occur. Thanks for being a straight-shooter and look forward to more of your work.
♥️
We listen to music with manufacturers’ products. Manufacturers listen to their customers and make the products better. Beautiful symmetry there.
You have continued the dialogue and narrative. That’s why you are so valuable to the community. Not wishing to over simplify, can I be so bold as to say that like every aspect of life and therefore business and therefore hifi; INTEGRETY.
Do I make this product for profit only or do I CARE about the life enhancing experience of engaging with music?
Reviewers should name and shame the former and celebrate the latter.
I'm not sure I agree with naming and shaming. We don't need any more hate in the world, but I do agree with calling out the bad practices and, most importantly, highlighting the great companies in the industry.
The flipside is companies rewarding positive reviews... which is even more insidious and far reaching in its effects upon the hobby. Holds for the audio press and for online reviewers.
I've not once had that occur so I don't know that it's common for audio. I have been offered money for reviews by a couple of Chinese brands, but just explained that I am independent and therefore won't accept money for reviews.
@@PassionforSound the industry has always been corrupt sadly
@@PassionforSound if you look at the stalwart magazines, now websites, their advertising funds are always at risk if negative reviews are published. The most annoying part about the old school reviewers is the maintenance of the price hierarchy. “This sounds good but as good as Brand X but, it’s twice the price.” Expensive products are always considered better.
I can't comment in depth on magazines and websites, but I agree there's some truth there.
As for more expensive gear sounding better, that's almost always the case because the higher cost is due to the user of higher quality components, more complex circuits, etc. so that's not evidence of any corruption on its own
@@PassionforSound Plenty of examples of that not being true. The best 10k dac will be ebtter than the ebst 1k dac but thats as much as you can say. I have seen 1k preamps or dacs beat big brand items at ten times the price on a regular basis. The best 1k dac willbeat an average 10k dac without much difficulty and a lot of high end kit is just snake oil.
Ever wonder why hi Fi mags always 99% give positive review, now you know why.
Actually, it's likely they're also actively receiving advertising income from those companies and running their ads in the magazines/on their websites so there's an extra layer of complexity there.
Jeers to the manufacturers and distributors who put their dealers in the crossfire when they get an unfavorable review on a dealer-loaned product. That's really underhanded.
I agree and wish I could call out the specific headphone brand and the other brand that made their name with DACs.
@@PassionforSoundwhy do I have a feeling this is Abyss 🥲
I should neither confirm or deny...
Good points and perhaps even better to just put it out there. Any thoughts of reviewers doing some minor networking amongst themselves and at least share such experience so to speak internally?
That happens already to a degree, but we don't all know each other so the impact is limited. For example, one of the brands I have had issues with and can't name due to the risk to the retailer, is a headphone brand that seems to have solid support from a number of prominent reviewers who I don't have personal contact with.
@@PassionforSound Maybe someone should set up an anonymous Discord and send the links to everyone or something. That said there are of course several "reviewers" who are strictly paid marketing for brands and they might have opposing intrests so not an easy thing for sure.
That's probably true. There are some who seem more focused on affiliate revenue (which I use, but do not favour with better reviews) and brand loyalty who might struggle with the transparency
I will not support any company that tries to strong-arm a reviewer or a retailer. There are so many great manufacturers out there that I can take my business to and not have to deal with the others.
i hope it doesnt happen again, because it makes it bad for review to be genuine to review products and make the community be inform with advantages and disadvantages of products.
I agree. Sadly, some brands continue to make things difficult to access their products if you don't only say good things about them.
only way I can see to help with the issue of a manufacturer 'punishing' a retailer for sending you something would be for you not to say where you got the device from. which then it's still not fair to the retailer/supplier because they do not get the publicity that they deserve.
Exactly. It makes things very tricky.
“Feedback is the breakfast of champions.”
Quote from the book “The One Minute Manager “.
Good video Lachlan and highlighting the positive feedback loop of improving products!
Glad you acknowledged your relationship with Apos Ray Tubes.
Would be good to mention this in your reviews of their tubes.
I will definitely do that for all tube reviews (Ray or otherwise) moving forwards. The prior reviews were all created before there was even any talk of local distribution.
Excellent thoughts about continuous improvement! Well said.
Sometimes when one person wants to create and make money another person can loose an income be careful what you say and whom you say it about they may sue you for damages and cost you millions in the end .
There are rarely definitive statements in my reviews because I emphasise that it's my take on a product and not cold, hard fact so I don't think I'm at risk, but it's something that will be on my mind in future negative reviews
100% with you.
subjective area, too many bogus reviews
It is an important topic indeed. A lawsuit could break a reviewer (financially), but exposure of it could give that same reviewer a lot of exposure, credibility and extra followers. It can also seriously impact a company's reputation in a really bad way, rightfully so, or perhaps not always. Some companies have very nice employees, but happen to have a boss that is a profound kontgat.
Tricky - but that can also be the fun of it, to compare reviews, build up knowledge of particular reviewers, and also look for things that are not said, and products of which reviews are suspiciously not coming out.
You got it right. Just like government gag orders, you can say you have not had an issue with brand x. When the disclaimer goes away consumers will know.
This video on this subject matter is brilliant because this is a big deal.
Maybe the brands should just make the best possible products they can and accept the criticism that they get and make the appropriate changes. Everybody wins. Bottom line is if you make crap expect crappy reviews.
It is obtuse to bite the hand that feeds you.
Aggressive companies that dislike the review should be quietly "thanked, but no-thanked".
They should probably reorient their marketing and legal departments to the new reality of how people select their purchases.
I will not buy from companies that strongarm people who are giving them free advertising for their product.
The competition in the audio/hifi industry is doubtlessly fierce, but throwing your toys out of the pram because your product was not hyped, is just silly.
One solution is for us to send you our products more but I realise there are other complications with that and partnership implications from a business perspective.
The biggest challenge with that is the time that an individual needs to be without their audio gear - especially when my review schedule is booked months in advance. (It's July as I write this and I am already booked well into November)
How much will it cost me to see your review of the M23 ?
There are multiple answers to that. You can join as an Early Bird Access user here on TouTube. You can join as an Enthusiast member on Patreon.
Finally, if you don't want to pay, you can have it 100% free here on RUclips by waiting until it goes public soon (I can't recall the scheduled date)
@@PassionforSound Thank you very much. Looking forward to it.
Appreciate your thoughts. Not a fan of the driving while talking - I'd prefer it if you had a different casual setting that didn't incur risk to yourself or others. Call me old-fashioned :)
It's no different to chatting to someone next to me in the car or on the phone. I don't have any spare time in my days other than the 30-minutes to go and collect my son from daycare so that's my only chance to make a quick video like this one. 🙂
F.Y.I from America....Your driving on the wrong side of the road! LOL!!! Videos like this is why I think your a stand up guy! Always look forward to your videos! CHEERS!
LOL. I once played way too much Grand Theft Auto and tried to turn to the wrong side of the road when I left my driveway later. 😂
Glad you liked the vid!
Man I wonder what brands did that. It makes me think of brands that don't send out review units as a rule but people still review their products, that is a fairly short list if I am not mistaken.
Dcs
There are a few brands that are conspicuously absent on my channel in recent times. A few of them: iFi, Audeze and Violectric are absent due to the local distributor having an issue with me being friends (personally, not professionally) with a competitor of his. There are a couple of others that are absent or that I have to source through other means due to the manufacturers. One of these is a headphone brand. The other made their name with DACs.
@@PassionforSound distributors / product reps can be funny like that
@@PassionforSound Thanks for your response!
Here what you're saying. Only work-a-round would be to buy said product, review it, sell it. They can't touch reviewers then. Providing reviewer could even afford it, that an entirely different matter. DCS actions to Goldensound was nothing short of corporate bullying. I have no future interest with any brand that threatens legal action against a reviewer providing his opinion.
Unfortunately, small channels (
The company, DCS, had to consider the horrendous publicity this would cause, Was it worth it? Not a savvy business move, could backfire. Thanks for posting this video
I do believe the issue with dCS was a single person acting irrationally (and perhaps some poor internal communication and processes). I hope they can earn back the lost respect with demonstrated positive interactions in the future.
I like the intimacy of this video. Lack of the usual noise pollution production is a great improvement.
I'll be throwing a few of these in the mix from time-to-time
If all retailers grow a pair and boycott and call out any brands that threaten to withdraw their products as a community, customers will always be able to find alternatives that are not complete assholes. We as a community need to work together to stop these kind of behaviour. I won't not buy a product based on your bad review, but I will definitely avoid it if they engage in scummy behaviour. Nothing is ever perfect, and if companies don't learn from their mistakes but instead try to silence others for speaking out about it, then that company can take their business somewhere else.
Now you're just showing off shooting videos while driving man! 🍻
Trying to use every spare minute productively 😁
I’ve been following this kerfuffle ..and yes,I’m glad it’s being resolved.
It's not really resolved. They still lied a lot in their "apology"
Where can we find details on the cables and accessories that you're selling?
www.passionforsound.net
ZMF is an example of a good brand. Hand made, Zach is great to deal with and products are superb.
Very true!
To be fair, DCS has commented regarding this on their Facebook page, which I think should be read. Whether you believe the explanation of course is up to the individual, but it's still important to listen to both sides before deciding anything.
C&P the statement here, I'm curious and have no FB account
Sure the HQ got fed false information, buts it’s still a BS apology. They knew about the legal threat and didn’t look into it themselves. (Like really??!). And mistakes were made on both sides (like REALLY????!!!!). It’s not the worst apology, but it’s there’s still a healthy dose of we sorry you got offended.
I think it's a messy and complicated situation. The real test will be in seeing how dCS respond from here forward so I think we should all give them a chance to reprove themselves and make our own decisions after some time passes.
@@PassionforSound I give them half a year to change their ways, if not then they aren't worth anyone's time
Sued for honesty
You can have opinions I can 100% disagree with but you still have the right to critique without threat of legal repercussions and I'll back anyone's ability to say what they want, when they want, how they want and where they want.
Hey Lachlan, one company which has gotten explicit praise by Cameron was T+A.
Would be wonderful to get some of their gear in for a review to hear your opinion...especially the HA200 DAC/Amp and the Solitaire P headphones
🔥🐹🔥
I have tried in the past with no luck, but would love to.
@@PassionforSound ❤
Never ever dCS !
At least with dealers you know they're trying to sell you something and what they're trying to sell you, so just go with them and use reviewers for news, technical info and entertainment. Don't trust them any more than you would trust a dealer, in fact less because of the previously stated reason.
as a shill who likes everything, you won't have problems with anyone
You've clearly not been watching...
Think outside the box 📦
Hifi cancel culture 😂
Ya this hobby is wack
Hope review will start to show up from company that are not pushing this tipe of placing products. For example audiogd that I owe a full sistem top to bottom and the sound is ❤.
Best off all
I reached out to Audio-gd a while back but got no reply ☹️
If you make an announcement for sure someone will offer one dac one preamp with valves. I know the procedure but the things that sounded nice are not the first thing to be offered form company that will produce. If you can receive from Romania I will be happy to send couple of items
Are you talking about items you own or are you part of an audio company?
No company just want I owe
First of all I may be oldfashioned, but I find it idiotic that you bring OTHER people in danger by shooting a video while driving. If you dont have the 8 minutes, wait until you have them. And second I recommend to be careful whose defender you are. Golden S. has proven that he can't be trusted as reviewer or reporter.
looked hands free to me. and you just sooooo took the wrong side in Golden Sound vs. DCS. DCS crapped their own pants and it will be a long, smelly and painful cleanup from this.
OP if you're unable to talk while driving safely then I doubt your abilities as a driver entirely. Please stay off the roads.
@@KXP70 ITS A VIDEO, NOT JUST TALK
@@hfvienna please enlighten me; how does it being a video make it more mentally demanding than an audio recording?
It's no different from chatting to a passenger and glancing occasionally at the navigation screen or clock.
Also, this video wasn't defending anyone. I'm glad for all involved that there's a resolution in the works.
Apos has been great!
Shamnoor07 watched this video and canceled a potential order! Lmao. Perfect example of how a reviewer impacts sales.
Reviewers should basically say what to expect from a product, and not weather or not they loved it, hated it or liked it. Reviews are subjective. This is a great video btw.
It's funny. I mostly agree with you that the reviews shouldn't declare things as good/bad, but highlight the pros and cons so people can make up their own mind. I do like to share my personal preferences about each device, but as preferences, not truths. Some people get upset with me because they feel that's non-commital - I just think it's allowing space for each person to make up their own mind... 🙂
@PassionforSound I didn't think there was anything wrong with reviewers sharing their personal thoughts on products until this video you put out, but now I can see the manufacturers point on this subject. Ideally one's personal opinion shouldn't matter so much doing a review, but in reality I think it definitely affects sales of that product. This is just my opinion.
Unfortunately, I don't see any other way for consumers to get advice from people who've tried a wide range of gear. Having seen many vehement recommendations on forums, etc. from people who've clearly only tried a couple of products and don't know a wide range of the options at each price level, I think reviewers play an important role, but also have a responsibility to remind people that there are different strokes for different folks.
RUclipsrs should buy the products. It will remove the middleman from the strong-arm manufacturers.
Unfortunately, RUclips revenue is nowhere near enough to make this possible
@@PassionforSound Okay, but this is the price of saying what you want without risks to the retailer. Sell it after you review it (like many do) and pay the rental fee like the rest of us.
If you want free reviews on RUclips, that's not viable.
It’s really refreshing when reviewers have the courage to fully describe their experiences with gear
thanks for your efforts Lachlan!
also…
many things rarely if ever get spoken about
particularly reliability and service support
That's actually a great topic for discussion. I'll make another of these videos about that because it's a longer answer than I want to type on my phone. 🙂
@@PassionforSound you are doing great work Lachlan always enjoy hearing about your audio journeys
♥️
Who’s in the back seat?
No-one. I was on my way to collect my son from daycare. 🙂
@@PassionforSound I was just trying to distract you while you were driving, which is hard to do, since it wasn’t in realtime.
@WoodstockG54 😂
I’m sorry but this is a two way street. Some of your statements here are sensationalism. I’m not sure you are aware of your biases either. Do you think dCS isn’t passionate about their brand? Yet you fail to describe what they did to fix their communication problems. They took quick and decisive action. Anyway, hiding behind independence doesn’t control your biases.
A few year old review that Cameron did and then they came after him? Does that mean ANY reviewer that did something not favourable to a company years ago can get sued now? What a joke. dCS shot themselves in the foot. Not everyone is going to like everything. I've bought gear that reviewers loved or hated. I think over the last 7 years I've owned 60+ DACs (only have 8 now lol) some I loved and some I absolutely hated (and reviewers loved)
I think for reviewers that have issues like you (and Cameron) just exclude those products. Won't take us long to realise who they are. A shame that some companies don't want to learn and hear from the consumer on what we'd like to see or have fixed. People power is where it's at. I love a good pros/cons review.
As this will change reviews moving forward, I hope we can still see great reviews that are not biased in anyway
I will definitely continue to be open and honest in all of mine and I know a few other reviewers who feel the same. 🙂
@@PassionforSound awesome ❤
3:18 Your politically correct machinations are endlessly entertaining.......................
We are Hu"MAN". We are not Hu"women". lol
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
Definitely rambling. No clue what your position is.
Protecting the retailer of a product over consumers seems like a smokescreen excuse that absolves you of the responsibility to do the right thing. "I couldn't alert my neighbors to a violent criminal living in the apartment building because it would hurt the innocent landlord". This position can allow anyone to excuse anything by mentioning downstream effects. I think it would be more reasonable and believable to be honest about not wanting to compromise your own position in the audio world. This directly relates to your job and how you get paid and it's not necessarily your responsibility to go to bat for anyone if you want to position yourself not as a consumer advocate but as an extension of the audio industry marketing sphere. There's nothing wrong with that. And I'm not sure its fair to call yourself a "consumer" when you have direct relationships with companies. You are more on the advertising and marketing side of this world than people like us who just buy amps.