Nice. I like how you dealt with the floor slope, and the joist tape looks like something I could use in an upcoming project. But most of all … thank you AJ, for the invaluable help you supplied Ethan with!!
Especially if you have bowed framing, it is a good idea to add intermediate blocking. It helps take the bow out and keep everything aligned with the plywood edges. It also helps to add more stability.
CA building code says to epoxy the concrete prior to framing since there’s no ventilation under the subfloor and P/T framing though out would be a better choice in this situation. Not trying to troll. You put a lot of thought into this. Good job
I, for one, would be interested in seeing that collated screw gun doodad. As a basic non-construction homeowner, I will never have a need for it, but it's a gadget, and I love gadgets! Thanks for sharing!
It's just a long nose drywall gun, probably geared lower for higher torque. Incidentally a drywall gun works great for flooring too, the latest gen brushless guns can drive 2.5 inch screws into wood at 4000 RPM.
I use my dewalt 20v xr drywall gun for subfloor backerboard hardie plank (with stainless screws) fence pickets as well. All code proper and fast to install no nail guns air hoses compressers.
As I live in Termite Central here in the Philippines... I would have pre-treated that wood for drywood termites and subs. You can protect against the subs by trenching and filling said trench with a termiticide on the outside of the building but you won't have any protection for drywood termites. Heck, a lot of the wood available to me already has drywoods when I get it, so my paranoia is justified, at least in my part of the planet. The mileage of other may vary... One can go online to... Do Your Own Pest Control and buy a product called Termidor SC and have a ball. It last a very long time and it's great for ants as well. All of this said... Thanks for the video Ethan. Notes made... and Thumbs Up !! Nice Looking Job...
Great solution. Did you do anything to compensate for the slope on the bumpout? The way I understood it, that's what you used for you reference of "level". Btw ...glad you used the joist tape. I did an "omg" when you were putting untreated lumber against concrete. If you're ever trying to determine how dry a floor is, tape all 4 sides of plastic sheet to the concrete for a couple of days. If there's any moisture there will be condensation when you remove it. I hope you enjoy the new space!
no mention of electrical and heat etc... apparently where you are you don't need either... i'm working on a 24'x24' garage conversion, with cement that's cracked, uneven and dropped 4-5" in one corner... so nice even joists aren't even conceivable... i went with essentially floating deck idea - 2x6 with joist hangars with occasional shims to prevent any possible deflection. ran 5'" heat venting for 3 heat vents, and though it was "minimal" i did a 5" air intake on stairwell to suck air back to furnace... ran a dimpled plastic on top of cement to allow air movement / moisture barrier, then 6" of rock wool insulation, then my 3/4" sub-floor... working now on connecting 3 - 5" heat pipes to a 8"x12" air plenum running back to house main plain plenum, which i had to cut 8"x16" through concrete basement wall... also running build-in vac tubing, network and tv cabling through same hole... along with 3 14ga 14/2 15 amp lines for outlets and lights, and a single 20 amp line through walls to an external outlet...
Ethan this was a great video. We will be building a Barndo soon and did NOT want to be stuck walking on a concrete slab in our old age. The plan is to the entire house with this type of sleeper floor. Thanks for all the useful content.
Bracing mostly helps counteract deflection and twisting, Timothy. But with the firm slab directly below, there’s nowhere for the joists to move. They’re plenty strong enough to take the compression weight without bowing!
I'm enlosing my covered deck. I wanted to walk into the new room level with my home, so I raised it in a very similar way. Also, the decking wasn't level, so I both raised and leveled it. I a laser to mark my joists. I confirmed the height I needed the laser beam to be and placed the laser in the center of the deck. Then, placed the outer joists first and worked to the center ones. Marking each one via the laser. Then, as you did, ripped each one with my circular saw. I too had to shim a few places. I then glued & screwed the angled joists over the existing decking (I left the decking in place). I used the same subfloor product as you and glued & screwed it to the angled joists. Those sheets are HEAVY ! ! ! 80 lbs each! The initial floor had some bounce, but not now. I sort of laminated 2 floors together, so I suppose there would be very little flex. Great video and thanks for sharing. I learned that what I made was a Sleeper Floor! Good to know!
Cool 😎 video, Ethan. It was very interesting and enjoyable, not to mention being very informative. I wouldn't have had any idea how to tackle a problem like that. 😃😃😃😃
Great job, Ethan! I could feel your pain about the tongue-&-groove situation. My mom & I installed LVP flooring - which of course was T&G - in part of our kitchen a few years ago. I don't know what the problem was, but in many of the planks the tongues just broke right off, rendering those planks useless. We went through the required amount for the size of the floor, the waste amount I'd added to the purchase, & still had to buy another box or 2 to finish! It was not cheap flooring, either, so that made it even more aggravating. My mom said never again, & I tend to agree, at least with LVP. I had previously worked with engineered hardwood, which was not nearly as finicky, so that I would do again. I'm sorry to hear about your lumber woes, too. I know it's not always practical, but that's why I have pretty much always picked my own lumber. I just have trust issues that way. Thankfully, I have never had to get so much that I couldn't sift through & get good boards. In fact, the only wood I've ever had picked for me - at least within the past 30 years - was plywood from a local lumberyard, & only because that's just how they do it. Anyway, thank you for this informative video. I look forward to seeing more projects from your garage conversion. Hope you have a wonderful day!
Thanks Andrea! Ugggh, sorry to hear about the LVP. That can turn a job into a nightmare😖 I’m teaming up with some great electricians this week though. We’ll have some more cool garage videos soon!
Absolutely, thanks for watching! AJ already has footings poured on a new build for a strawbale house. I think she’s going to start posting updates soon! 😄
Great video! I just did this about 6 months ago in a partially-converted garage to make a bonus room. There was some evidence of moisture coming in, I wish I had used the joist tape. BUT...a friend who is a home inspector suggested that if the space is conditioned, I could add 4-6 "sleeper" floor registers that don't connect to anything, just allow a path to exchange air and remove moisture down to the slab. I went with it. Hey...it's something!
Thanks for the detailed video, and as usual, your videos are wonderful to listen to. I would love to do this on my garage but I still need to use it for winter parking. One comment on the joist tape, I built a deck and that stuff is very expensive. I’m assuming you’re trying to save money because you didn’t buy PT lumber, so instead of that tape you could use the standard sill plate foam/poly (?) used in construction, it comes in a nice roll and its used where wood meets concrete. Or even cheaper, a thick polyvinyl you can cut your self, doesn’t have to be pretty since its covered.
A couple questions ; 1. Since you didn't use treated lumber, what about using a product like Jasco or another copper naphthenate product to protect against moisture, mildew, rot and termites ? 2. What about vents for air circulation to prevent moisture buildup and wicking ?
I was a little confused with the building code requirements, depending on the local codes, it seems that there is a requirement for pressure treated wood that is in contact with concrete. I did see where some contractors use an underlayment type gasket in place of pressure treated lumber. On my new construction in Nevada, the contractor used both. Also, copper naphthenate coating on floor joists would not be pressure treated, it may be toxic, but with a vapor barrier, may not hazardous. I did help on a repair where a patio deck was over a garage with no ventilation, at some point moisture formed and led to mold and dry rot of the 2x12 joists and plywood subfloor. It was found when he stepped through the deck floor.
I have done two projects of this sort: One was to level the floor of a horse barn, and the other to level a former garage. Sleepers work beautifully for this. In my case, I got to a point where I had only 3/4" (down to zero) that needed to be leveled. So, I caulked around the edges of that last section and then used self-leveling compound which finished the job nicely. It is wonderful to be able to run utilities under the floor. I actually installed a couple of floor receptacles (120V and 240V) for heavy equipment. Many of the sleepers that I cut had to be slightly angled and were 1" or less in thickness, so I "freehand" cut them (sighting along pencil-drawn lines) out of 8-foot PT 2x4's using a table saw. Gives more control cutting narrow boards. Since my sleepers were relatively narrow (thin?), I placed them 12" OC. You could park a truck on those floors. Plus, I was tiling one of the floors and was going to be rolling heavy equipment on it and did NOT want it to crack. (It hasn't so far 😎.) I hear you on the mixed quality of delivered lumber. Only once have I ordered wood for delivery, and that was just some plain 8' 2x4 studs. I just prefer to pick it out myself. Anyway, thanks for the video!
Thanks Thomas! I appreciate the project notes. I did this another time in a house I rented (the basement) and had to map the room with measurements dropped from control lines because the slope crossed diagonally through the room. Took forever to cut those joists!
Nice floor. Tongue and groove is a royal PIA solo. Especially when the sheeting is bowed or cupped. When using a beater board it helps to have someone standing on the tongue side. That person shifts their weight to push the tongue in alignment with the groove of the previous board. Also, don't swing that sledge or mull too hard. Jamming a misaligned tongue against the previous board will splinter it. Then it has to be pulled back out and cleaned up. Ask me how I know. Good idea using screws. However, be aware the entire floor has to be removed from the front back to where you run utilities, then laid back down all over again. The tongue and groove interlocks won't allow you to lift a single sheet out on the middle. I know how it is: Wanting to get something done. To be honest, I would have roughed in plumbing and electrical before the sub-floor went down. Again, ask me how I know.
All good points, Magius! I would indeed highly recommend inspecting t&g sheets before installing…and not beating them to pieces! They’re tough when walked on, but kind of sensitive when they’re getting moved around. And I wish I could have roughed electrical and plumbing first, but I’ve just had to move so quickly for the shop/studio remodel that I couldn’t wait! Business calls 😵
Ethan … GREAT VIDEO; better job!!! I always learn something new when I watch your videos!!! Thank you!!!!! Until your next video and beyond, take care, be safe, and God bless!!! Chuck Knight from Atascocita (Houston), Texas. 😵💫👨🌾😵💫😅
A question, you are using tongue and groove boards and you have added some screws to hold them down for now, being that the boards are interlocked won't it be hard to lift them up to run your wiring/plumbing?
Another great video! I look forward to following the rest of this project. I am totally inexperienced with this, but I would have thought 20" in between might have allowed too much sagging for the heavy shop equipment. It's the 3/4" subfloor that makes up for this, isn't it? I'm guessing this wouldn't work with 15/32" subfloor. Also, could this have been leveled by adding more concrete on it? That might be more trouble than this would have been.
A tip for thoes already with a dewalt senco or any drywall gun with a collated attachment you can use it for subfloor backerboard (tile) and hardie siding just buy the correct screws. We install all of that and don't have to have a specific standing gun. No blocking? I would personally like to keep it quieter by adding some basic blocking even if it's only 2x6. Fyi backerboard screws work for subfloor as well if there long enough they never back outland the heads are nice and flush.
Nice job. Two comments though: 1. Some cross bracing would be nice. 2. You mentioned installing some plumbing later under the new floor, and that is the reason you didn't fully screw the sheathing down. But you went out of your way to use tongue and groove sheathing. Did you not notice that the tongues will prevent you from just unscrewing one sheet and lifting it up? I mean you can do it, but some damage is going to happen. Or am I missing something here? Please let me know if I am.
Great video Ethan I know how frustrating it can be when you get bad lumber in a lumber order a lot of times what I've done which I'm sure you have done also is I'll talk to the guys that that are going to be building my lumber order and tell them what I am using the lumber for and most of the time that will take care of it I'm looking forward to seeing how your home comes together especially that workshop in the garage
Thank you, Jason! That’s a great point. I had a really good relationship with a couple lumberyards around here before, but lost those contacts when I moved back where after the pandemic. I’m sort of starting over again. Searching for my trustworthy suppliers. At some l want to make a video on finding and interacting with good lumberyards!
@@TheHonestCarpenter contacts are a great thing it comes down to the simple thing with most lumber yards I think of just giving respect and commanding respect
Awesome work. Can you share in a little more detail when CA is reasonable compared to mechanical? Like pros and cons like you did with nails and screws. Good work on this floor. Lumber is tough now-a-days….you can’t throw it all away.
Do you have plastic under the slab? If not, you should've put a vapor barrier between the concrete and floor framing. 6 mil or greater plastic or fluid applied. Also, why no insulation in the floor?
I had a similar problem, I had to repair a floor completely rotted by water damage, & basically had to rebuild it from scratch. Thankfully a few major floor studs & Long, thick Floor boards & it only took about 2 Days to fix. 👷🏿♂️
Good to hear, W! Floor structure is always labor intensive to rebuild, especially when the unit is already in a finished space. Glad it went well though!
Rigid insulation with vapor barrier in the channels. Helps reduce moisture from getting into the channels, and add some insulation in case you want to control the environment in the room. Since I live in a colder climate insulation becomes critical. Also, for ripping long boards, a track saw works really well. Most track saws can be extended for ever actually if you have enough money. I have ripped 20 foot boards. Very accurate very fast.
I hope your moisture under the slab is well managed. That always worries me when people take an iffy garage, or especially basement, cement floor and just cover it up
@jobacuda4472 While that's ideal, I can tell you from experience that many slabs either don't have adequate moisture mitigation or it was originally installed, but failed partially or completely at some point. Of course, there are a ton of variables which make this more or less of an issue, but for anyone thinking of doing this, it is a must-consider item or you could have serious problems and costs later. An easy, but not exhaustive, check for potential issues could be as simple as covering portions of the floor in sample areas with plastic taped down. If you have significant moisture intrusion, you may see water beading on the plastic
@@TheHonestCarpenter If it is true that the foundation is sealed from the bottom and sides, that would leave the foundation with no easy way to wick off any moisture formed as it absorbs moisture from condensation. Since this is an unconditioned space, and the cavity between the floors is not perfectly sealed, moisture will more easily condense beneath the sleeper floor and the slab may be unable to wick it away in time before the lumber starts to absorb it, potentially leading to mold and rot over the seasons. If I may, I would recommend ensuring the cavity remain well-venitllated or completley sealed as you consider your final flooring finish.
My only critique is that walk through doorway. If it’s getting filled in with wall, it’s fine. If a door is going back in, I might have made a 40”x40” cut out with a step up.
Lumber is like this in Canada as well, straight from the mill and lots of warping. I have a wood mill and I can cut better lumber on that than what I bought. I had no choice to buy my lumber cause my building is in town limits. Even though the lumber was not the greatest I found that I was able to get a pretty decent building by following a few simple instructions. Mark the crowns and use all the lumber crowns out for less wavy walls and floors. Also the proper floor screws and glue are a must for putting the plywood on the joists. My neighbour didn’t do this and he’s spent lots of time later dealing with many areas of squeaky floor. Mine has no squeaks at all and the glue and proper screws were definitely not a budget killer.
If all the subfloor is interlocking, how are you going to pull it up later if the window and door is in. Won't that stop you being able to undo the interlock?
Just did this, but I have excess headroom so I did 2x6 pt plates epoxy with 5/8 galvanized rod holding all that down. Then I just tapered 4x8’s the long way and used them as girders. Took all the floor slope out in the 4x8. Think it’s 5 1/4 ish on the short side. Then 2x10, insulation, 3/4 subfloor. Doing walls now.
When I fill in step-down living rooms/dens. I just go from top of bottom wall plate across the room to the opposite top of bottom wall plate with my chalk line against each joist layed out, simply snap lines directly on the joist. Cut that chalk line, then loctite the cut edge down to the concrete. Then sheet. Perfect level for flooring. If the span is long, then I add blocking for twisting.
Good tip!! I can see that working well. Not sure I could pull it off on this 24’ span, but the fundamentals are pretty similar between our two approaches. 👍
Good tip!! I can see that working well. Not sure I could pull it off on this 24’ span, but the fundamentals are pretty similar between our two approaches. 👍
I am a bit confused you said that the concrete rim was not level but using the mason string you use it as a reference to pull the height of one end of the joists. Wouldn't the discrepancy in the concrete rim be translated to the joists?
You made an off hand comment about running wiring and plumbing. Personally I would have done that before laying the actual panels down Taking T&G apart is a fools errand. Also, as this is a studio space, I would have taken the time to run a bead of adhesive along the top of the joists. It may not squeak now but after a couple winters......
You should’ve soundproofed it while you were at it. It's more expensive and more difficult, but would have been well worth it for a studio and a good selling point for an apartment.
This should be fine. I’m installing a mini-split in this room, and the air cycling will circulate the joist bays as well. There are lots of little cracks and nooks for air to escape and transfer. Plus the floor really has been bone dry this entire times. That’s why we started sealing foundations!
You are correct. There is a danger of moisture in this situation. Maybe not from outside, but condensation from differing temperatures can also cause moisture issues. Code requires a vapor barrier under all concrete slabs that will be in conditioned spaces. Since this slab wasn't originally in a conditioned space, there's a pretty good chance that there's no vapor barrier.
Would not clear the groove with your finger 😲 sure it will work until you get a giant splinter in your finger or worse under your fingernails! Definitely use a screwdriver or anything else to get rid of chips in the groove 👍
did your helper at least cook the fish for dinner and invite you? Great job, been thinking about a floating floor for my garage due to bad concrete but I wont go with anything more than a 2x2 sleeper with 12" centers due to an unusally low garage door
My helper seems intent on keeping that fish, Erica. 😂 I see what you mean about the low garage door. I’ve done similar methods for smaller floors too. Good luck with the project if you tackle it in the future!
I don’t know why you were in such a hurry to get that sheeting down before your plumbing??? A lot of extra work and frustration But on wood sheeting I screw RV grab handles to make moving and positioning easier. The cheap plastic ones nothing fancy. If there is an RV repair shop close by you can probably get them for free. Just about any crate from a RV manufacturer has them. I know I have a box of them and quit collecting and throw away. No prying edges Easy to use lifting straps with too I see them on Amazon for 5-10 bucks Much easier than screw heads to pull up sheets with. And if you get enough for free you add grab handles to things just for convenience
We did this 30 years ago? we laid a pressure treated 2x4, on the slab, with sill seam under the board. We ran a 1x4, on top, and milled it down to level, using a power planner. Put down a house wrap of the day, then screwed another 2x4 on top, and then put down hardwood. (lol). Yep, 30 years ago. We had 7' ceilings, so, a 2x12 was not an option.
Joist are untreated! That’s why I used the joist tape for the undersides. Only the bands at front and back are treated, and they’re already cut to be below floor level.
Thank you, Matt! I definitely wanted to document this one a little bit because it was such a weird but necessary step for the garage remodel. Always have to deal with the unique jobsite conditions on projects like this. I’m glad it was helpful-this solution really made it pretty easy!
I'd never trust the vapour barrier under a slab for anything - even if the room seems dry, with that wide-open garage door you can have quite a lot of moisture coming up through the floor and you'd never know about it. Protecting your timber is the right choice. I'd go a step further, and look for a way to dehumidify the space under your timber flooring. You just closed off the ventilation to the slab, so if there is any moisture it's just going to accumulate now.
I am surprised that with your experience and fame you do not have a supplier that would give you better wood. Maybe if you had one that you could state on camera -- naming them them -- and say what a good batch of wood you got, they might do a better job.
Why would you do this? That space underneath will lack ventilation and be a great place for mold growth. Also a great place for vermin to nest. God help you if the area ever gets even a little water in it. Why not just coat the existing floor with a high quality epoxy or some other coating?
The underfloor will circulate with the hvac. Even if a pipe bursts later on, that’s no different from a typical leak-you fix, and it’ll dry out over time. Vermin try to nest in every house. You just catch them. But as I mentioned, the floor is too heavily sloped to be a good shop surface, and I’ll plumb this room later.
You made a mistake in not using vapor barrier between floor and wood; air flow is necessary, your rim joist should have been joined on a floor joist. Pretty good job but wouldn’t pass in California or snow country
@@TheHonestCarpenteryeah and it doesn’t matter how you try and church it up lol its osb and is inferior to plywood in every way that matters. And it’s not so much you cheaped out on going osb it’s that you did so going 24 on center.
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Nice. I like how you dealt with the floor slope, and the joist tape looks like something I could use in an upcoming project. But most of all … thank you AJ, for the invaluable help you supplied Ethan with!!
Especially if you have bowed framing, it is a good idea to add intermediate blocking. It helps take the bow out and keep everything aligned with the plywood edges. It also helps to add more stability.
He’s gonna run plumbing later, makes no sense to block it now
@@Thee-AmateurAn94 You can still block. You just knock out the block where you need a pipe. The same thing applies to a typical floor.
You make EXCELLENT content Ethan.... Please make MORE!!! Nice to meet you AJ!!!
Thank you, Mark! Will do 😁
CA building code says to epoxy the concrete prior to framing since there’s no ventilation under the subfloor and P/T framing though out would be a better choice in this situation. Not trying to troll. You put a lot of thought into this. Good job
I, for one, would be interested in seeing that collated screw gun doodad. As a basic non-construction homeowner, I will never have a need for it, but it's a gadget, and I love gadgets! Thanks for sharing!
I will definitely show it, Lumberjack! I think you can rent them pretty cheaply. It’s a lifesaver! 😁
There are cordless drivers available from DeWalt and Milwaukee also
It's just a long nose drywall gun, probably geared lower for higher torque. Incidentally a drywall gun works great for flooring too, the latest gen brushless guns can drive 2.5 inch screws into wood at 4000 RPM.
I use my dewalt 20v xr drywall gun for subfloor backerboard hardie plank (with stainless screws) fence pickets as well. All code proper and fast to install no nail guns air hoses compressers.
I’ve got one. Takes some skill to use. I went through a few bits before I figured it out.
As I live in Termite Central here in the Philippines... I would have pre-treated that wood for drywood termites and subs. You can protect against the subs by trenching and filling said trench with a termiticide on the outside of the building but you won't have any protection for drywood termites. Heck, a lot of the wood available to me already has drywoods when I get it, so my paranoia is justified, at least in my part of the planet. The mileage of other may vary... One can go online to... Do Your Own Pest Control and buy a product called Termidor SC and have a ball. It last a very long time and it's great for ants as well. All of this said... Thanks for the video Ethan. Notes made... and Thumbs Up !! Nice Looking Job...
Ethan
Keep her around your going to need her. Also it’s great to have someone that knows what she’s doing. Waiting on the next one.
Yes I helped do two floors like this years ago. To make apartment's out of the garage. Great video
Great solution. Did you do anything to compensate for the slope on the bumpout? The way I understood it, that's what you used for you reference of "level".
Btw ...glad you used the joist tape. I did an "omg" when you were putting untreated lumber against concrete. If you're ever trying to determine how dry a floor is, tape all 4 sides of plastic sheet to the concrete for a couple of days. If there's any moisture there will be condensation when you remove it.
I hope you enjoy the new space!
Great tip, Jeff! And the bump-out itself was fairly level. Just the slab was heavily sloped!
thanks so much for sharing, great job 👍
Really nice tip there Ethan. Thanks a lot.
Thank you, Arash! 😄
This really shows the importance of a basic understanding of woodworking. Thinking outside the box is only possible with good fundamentals
no mention of electrical and heat etc... apparently where you are you don't need either... i'm working on a 24'x24' garage conversion, with cement that's cracked, uneven and dropped 4-5" in one corner... so nice even joists aren't even conceivable... i went with essentially floating deck idea - 2x6 with joist hangars with occasional shims to prevent any possible deflection. ran 5'" heat venting for 3 heat vents, and though it was "minimal" i did a 5" air intake on stairwell to suck air back to furnace...
ran a dimpled plastic on top of cement to allow air movement / moisture barrier, then 6" of rock wool insulation, then my 3/4" sub-floor...
working now on connecting 3 - 5" heat pipes to a 8"x12" air plenum running back to house main plain plenum, which i had to cut 8"x16" through concrete basement wall... also running build-in vac tubing, network and tv cabling through same hole... along with 3 14ga 14/2 15 amp lines for outlets and lights, and a single 20 amp line through walls to an external outlet...
Ethan this was a great video. We will be building a Barndo soon and did NOT want to be stuck walking on a concrete slab in our old age. The plan is to the entire house with this type of sleeper floor. Thanks for all the useful content.
That's awesome! Wood over concrete any day for me. 😄
I was exspecting a few cross braces to be in there in the field. But you and Ms. A J are the pros. The floor looks nice so far.
Bracing mostly helps counteract deflection and twisting, Timothy. But with the firm slab directly below, there’s nowhere for the joists to move. They’re plenty strong enough to take the compression weight without bowing!
@@TheHonestCarpenter that makes sense, it is not suspended.
Thank you for the explanation Mr. Ethan
I'm enlosing my covered deck. I wanted to walk into the new room level with my home, so I raised it in a very similar way. Also, the decking wasn't level, so I both raised and leveled it. I a laser to mark my joists. I confirmed the height I needed the laser beam to be and placed the laser in the center of the deck. Then, placed the outer joists first and worked to the center ones. Marking each one via the laser. Then, as you did, ripped each one with my circular saw. I too had to shim a few places. I then glued & screwed the angled joists over the existing decking (I left the decking in place). I used the same subfloor product as you and glued & screwed it to the angled joists. Those sheets are HEAVY ! ! ! 80 lbs each! The initial floor had some bounce, but not now. I sort of laminated 2 floors together, so I suppose there would be very little flex.
Great video and thanks for sharing. I learned that what I made was a Sleeper Floor! Good to know!
You gave some good tips as I’m tackling a sleeper/floating floor for under a 40x60 wedding tent. Should be fun trying to level it…
That’s a big one, Mick! I hope some of these tips help. Good luck!
Cool 😎 video, Ethan. It was very interesting and enjoyable, not to mention being very informative. I wouldn't have had any idea how to tackle a problem like that. 😃😃😃😃
Thank you, Gary! It’s always a bit of a head scratcher for me too 😄
@@TheHonestCarpenter It looks just super to me! 😃😃😃
Nice job. I did a few like this on crooked concrete and I used 2x6. With proper shims every 3 feet
Great job, Ethan! I could feel your pain about the tongue-&-groove situation. My mom & I installed LVP flooring - which of course was T&G - in part of our kitchen a few years ago. I don't know what the problem was, but in many of the planks the tongues just broke right off, rendering those planks useless. We went through the required amount for the size of the floor, the waste amount I'd added to the purchase, & still had to buy another box or 2 to finish! It was not cheap flooring, either, so that made it even more aggravating. My mom said never again, & I tend to agree, at least with LVP. I had previously worked with engineered hardwood, which was not nearly as finicky, so that I would do again. I'm sorry to hear about your lumber woes, too. I know it's not always practical, but that's why I have pretty much always picked my own lumber. I just have trust issues that way. Thankfully, I have never had to get so much that I couldn't sift through & get good boards. In fact, the only wood I've ever had picked for me - at least within the past 30 years - was plywood from a local lumberyard, & only because that's just how they do it. Anyway, thank you for this informative video. I look forward to seeing more projects from your garage conversion. Hope you have a wonderful day!
Thanks Andrea! Ugggh, sorry to hear about the LVP. That can turn a job into a nightmare😖 I’m teaming up with some great electricians this week though. We’ll have some more cool garage videos soon!
Thanks, Ethan, and thanks for the link to AJ's channel. I'm excited to watch it grow!
Absolutely, thanks for watching! AJ already has footings poured on a new build for a strawbale house. I think she’s going to start posting updates soon! 😄
I learned so much from you. Just the way you explain things and really live up to your name as the honest Carpenter. You are truly an OG. Great video!
Thank you!
Great video! I just did this about 6 months ago in a partially-converted garage to make a bonus room. There was some evidence of moisture coming in, I wish I had used the joist tape. BUT...a friend who is a home inspector suggested that if the space is conditioned, I could add 4-6 "sleeper" floor registers that don't connect to anything, just allow a path to exchange air and remove moisture down to the slab. I went with it. Hey...it's something!
Big job. Nice work.
Thank you, Gary! Glad to have that one knocked out.
Thanks for the detailed video, and as usual, your videos are wonderful to listen to. I would love to do this on my garage but I still need to use it for winter parking. One comment on the joist tape, I built a deck and that stuff is very expensive. I’m assuming you’re trying to save money because you didn’t buy PT lumber, so instead of that tape you could use the standard sill plate foam/poly (?) used in construction, it comes in a nice roll and its used where wood meets concrete. Or even cheaper, a thick polyvinyl you can cut your self, doesn’t have to be pretty since its covered.
A couple questions ; 1. Since you didn't use treated lumber, what about using a product like Jasco or another copper naphthenate product to protect against moisture, mildew, rot and termites ?
2. What about vents for air circulation to prevent moisture buildup and wicking ?
Treated lumber will split and check,distort.
It can be toxic for an indoor project
I was a little confused with the building code requirements, depending on the local codes, it seems that there is a requirement for pressure treated wood that is in contact with concrete. I did see where some contractors use an underlayment type gasket in place of pressure treated lumber. On my new construction in Nevada, the contractor used both. Also, copper naphthenate coating on floor joists would not be pressure treated, it may be toxic, but with a vapor barrier, may not hazardous. I did help on a repair where a patio deck was over a garage with no ventilation, at some point moisture formed and led to mold and dry rot of the 2x12 joists and plywood subfloor. It was found when he stepped through the deck floor.
@fredjordway5211 this build was subpar in every way.
I have done two projects of this sort: One was to level the floor of a horse barn, and the other to level a former garage. Sleepers work beautifully for this. In my case, I got to a point where I had only 3/4" (down to zero) that needed to be leveled. So, I caulked around the edges of that last section and then used self-leveling compound which finished the job nicely. It is wonderful to be able to run utilities under the floor. I actually installed a couple of floor receptacles (120V and 240V) for heavy equipment.
Many of the sleepers that I cut had to be slightly angled and were 1" or less in thickness, so I "freehand" cut them (sighting along pencil-drawn lines) out of 8-foot PT 2x4's using a table saw. Gives more control cutting narrow boards. Since my sleepers were relatively narrow (thin?), I placed them 12" OC. You could park a truck on those floors. Plus, I was tiling one of the floors and was going to be rolling heavy equipment on it and did NOT want it to crack. (It hasn't so far 😎.)
I hear you on the mixed quality of delivered lumber. Only once have I ordered wood for delivery, and that was just some plain 8' 2x4 studs. I just prefer to pick it out myself.
Anyway, thanks for the video!
Thanks Thomas! I appreciate the project notes. I did this another time in a house I rented (the basement) and had to map the room with measurements dropped from control lines because the slope crossed diagonally through the room. Took forever to cut those joists!
Great content! Wonderful watching true pros work and problem solve. Thank you both!
Nice floor. Tongue and groove is a royal PIA solo. Especially when the sheeting is bowed or cupped. When using a beater board it helps to have someone standing on the tongue side. That person shifts their weight to push the tongue in alignment with the groove of the previous board.
Also, don't swing that sledge or mull too hard. Jamming a misaligned tongue against the previous board will splinter it. Then it has to be pulled back out and cleaned up. Ask me how I know.
Good idea using screws. However, be aware the entire floor has to be removed from the front back to where you run utilities, then laid back down all over again. The tongue and groove interlocks won't allow you to lift a single sheet out on the middle.
I know how it is: Wanting to get something done. To be honest, I would have roughed in plumbing and electrical before the sub-floor went down. Again, ask me how I know.
All good points, Magius! I would indeed highly recommend inspecting t&g sheets before installing…and not beating them to pieces! They’re tough when walked on, but kind of sensitive when they’re getting moved around.
And I wish I could have roughed electrical and plumbing first, but I’ve just had to move so quickly for the shop/studio remodel that I couldn’t wait! Business calls 😵
Ethan … GREAT VIDEO; better job!!! I always learn something new when I watch your videos!!! Thank you!!!!! Until your next video and beyond, take care, be safe, and God bless!!! Chuck Knight from Atascocita (Houston), Texas. 😵💫👨🌾😵💫😅
A question, you are using tongue and groove boards and you have added some screws to hold them down for now, being that the boards are interlocked won't it be hard to lift them up to run your wiring/plumbing?
Years down the line I’ll have to take them up in sequential order. But that’s a long time from now!
@ 2:03 Everyone needs "a guy who doesn't say much, carries a big fish, and holds the chalk line on point!" 😆
Thanks. Very good.
Great video, thanks Ethan
Thank you, David!
Another great video! I look forward to following the rest of this project. I am totally inexperienced with this, but I would have thought 20" in between might have allowed too much sagging for the heavy shop equipment. It's the 3/4" subfloor that makes up for this, isn't it? I'm guessing this wouldn't work with 15/32" subfloor.
Also, could this have been leveled by adding more concrete on it? That might be more trouble than this would have been.
A tip for thoes already with a dewalt senco or any drywall gun with a collated attachment you can use it for subfloor backerboard (tile) and hardie siding just buy the correct screws. We install all of that and don't have to have a specific standing gun. No blocking? I would personally like to keep it quieter by adding some basic blocking even if it's only 2x6. Fyi backerboard screws work for subfloor as well if there long enough they never back outland the heads are nice and flush.
Fences too way faster than a impact.
Fascinating.
The floor job looks good,believe I’d put Tap-cons in with the glue. Probably just over kill on my part, otherwise looks good
Nice job. Two comments though: 1. Some cross bracing would be nice. 2. You mentioned installing some plumbing later under the new floor, and that is the reason you didn't fully screw the sheathing down. But you went out of your way to use tongue and groove sheathing. Did you not notice that the tongues will prevent you from just unscrewing one sheet and lifting it up? I mean you can do it, but some damage is going to happen. Or am I missing something here? Please let me know if I am.
1. What would the cross bracing achieve? 2. He's pulling it all up.
Great video Ethan I know how frustrating it can be when you get bad lumber in a lumber order a lot of times what I've done which I'm sure you have done also is I'll talk to the guys that that are going to be building my lumber order and tell them what I am using the lumber for and most of the time that will take care of it I'm looking forward to seeing how your home comes together especially that workshop in the garage
Thank you, Jason! That’s a great point. I had a really good relationship with a couple lumberyards around here before, but lost those contacts when I moved back where after the pandemic. I’m sort of starting over again. Searching for my trustworthy suppliers. At some l want to make a video on finding and interacting with good lumberyards!
@@TheHonestCarpenter contacts are a great thing it comes down to the simple thing with most lumber yards I think of just giving respect and commanding respect
I thought the masonry edge wasn't level but that seems to be what you are cutting your joists too. Did I hear that wrong?
Great video. I’m looking forward to seeing your process and progress on this project! Good luck!
I like your helper. Dependable and does not give any backtalk. Great job and thanks for sharing.
😆
Awesome work.
Can you share in a little more detail when CA is reasonable compared to mechanical? Like pros and cons like you did with nails and screws.
Good work on this floor. Lumber is tough now-a-days….you can’t throw it all away.
Do you have plastic under the slab? If not, you should've put a vapor barrier between the concrete and floor framing. 6 mil or greater plastic or fluid applied.
Also, why no insulation in the floor?
Foundation has a vapor barrier. And insulation will come later when I convert from shop to an apartment.
I had a similar problem, I had to repair a floor completely rotted by water damage, & basically had to rebuild it from scratch. Thankfully a few major floor studs & Long, thick Floor boards & it only took about 2 Days to fix. 👷🏿♂️
Good to hear, W! Floor structure is always labor intensive to rebuild, especially when the unit is already in a finished space. Glad it went well though!
Rigid insulation with vapor barrier in the channels. Helps reduce moisture from getting into the channels, and add some insulation in case you want to control the environment in the room. Since I live in a colder climate insulation becomes critical. Also, for ripping long boards, a track saw works really well. Most track saws can be extended for ever actually if you have enough money. I have ripped 20 foot boards. Very accurate very fast.
Great video as always!
Thanks, Frank!
I hope your moisture under the slab is well managed. That always worries me when people take an iffy garage, or especially basement, cement floor and just cover it up
Sealed foundation
If the perimeter of the foundation sheds water, virtually no moisture comes up through the slab. Plus, there is 6mil plastic under the slab.
@jobacuda4472 While that's ideal, I can tell you from experience that many slabs either don't have adequate moisture mitigation or it was originally installed, but failed partially or completely at some point. Of course, there are a ton of variables which make this more or less of an issue, but for anyone thinking of doing this, it is a must-consider item or you could have serious problems and costs later. An easy, but not exhaustive, check for potential issues could be as simple as covering portions of the floor in sample areas with plastic taped down. If you have significant moisture intrusion, you may see water beading on the plastic
@@TheHonestCarpenter If it is true that the foundation is sealed from the bottom and sides, that would leave the foundation with no easy way to wick off any moisture formed as it absorbs moisture from condensation. Since this is an unconditioned space, and the cavity between the floors is not perfectly sealed, moisture will more easily condense beneath the sleeper floor and the slab may be unable to wick it away in time before the lumber starts to absorb it, potentially leading to mold and rot over the seasons.
If I may, I would recommend ensuring the cavity remain well-venitllated or completley sealed as you consider your final flooring finish.
My only critique is that walk through doorway. If it’s getting filled in with wall, it’s fine.
If a door is going back in, I might have made a 40”x40” cut out with a step up.
Lumber is like this in Canada as well, straight from the mill and lots of warping. I have a wood mill and I can cut better lumber on that than what I bought. I had no choice to buy my lumber cause my building is in town limits. Even though the lumber was not the greatest I found that I was able to get a pretty decent building by following a few simple instructions. Mark the crowns and use all the lumber crowns out for less wavy walls and floors. Also the proper floor screws and glue are a must for putting the plywood on the joists. My neighbour didn’t do this and he’s spent lots of time later dealing with many areas of squeaky floor. Mine has no squeaks at all and the glue and proper screws were definitely not a budget killer.
If all the subfloor is interlocking, how are you going to pull it up later if the window and door is in. Won't that stop you being able to undo the interlock?
He's going to pull it all up, have the plumbing done, then relay it.
I just left a gap at the front of the room. I only need about 1/2” to kick them out.
Holy moly I was wanting one of my RUclipsrs to tackle this!!! As I have this project waiting for me!!!
That’s awesome! I’m glad this one showed up in time. Good luck with it! With the right layout techniques, it actually goes pretty quickly. 😁
Great video. What is the intended use for this room?
No vapor barrier? My garage conversion has 2 dehumidifier’s that need to be emptied weekly
Vapor barrier is under the slab!
I appreciate all the details even tho I'll never have a project like this.
Thanks Anne! You never know, a few of the leveling/marking principles might help with smaller projects 🙂
I love your channel. You seem like a great guy and I hope you do well on youtube.
Thank you so much!! 😄🙏
Just did this, but I have excess headroom so I did 2x6 pt plates epoxy with 5/8 galvanized rod holding all that down. Then I just tapered 4x8’s the long way and used them as girders. Took all the floor slope out in the 4x8. Think it’s 5 1/4 ish on the short side. Then 2x10, insulation, 3/4 subfloor. Doing walls now.
When I fill in step-down living rooms/dens. I just go from top of bottom wall plate across the room to the opposite top of bottom wall plate with my chalk line against each joist layed out, simply snap lines directly on the joist. Cut that chalk line, then loctite the cut edge down to the concrete. Then sheet. Perfect level for flooring. If the span is long, then I add blocking for twisting.
Good tip!! I can see that working well. Not sure I could pull it off on this 24’ span, but the fundamentals are pretty similar between our two approaches. 👍
Good tip!! I can see that working well. Not sure I could pull it off on this 24’ span, but the fundamentals are pretty similar between our two approaches. 👍
I’ve done this with 2x4 sleepers and loads of shims. I forget if we did 16 on center or 24 on center..
I am a bit confused you said that the concrete rim was not level but using the mason string you use it as a reference to pull the height of one end of the joists. Wouldn't the discrepancy in the concrete rim be translated to the joists?
It gets spread across all the joists, but it’s only 1/2” roughly, so it’s a negligible amount in a room this big.
What do you do a about the doors leading into the garage. Looks like entry door is going to be 50” high.
Raising it next week, John. Just need to reframe the header.
Was there a reason for not glueing down the ply?
You made an off hand comment about running wiring and plumbing. Personally I would have done that before laying the actual panels down Taking T&G apart is a fools errand. Also, as this is a studio space, I would have taken the time to run a bead of adhesive along the top of the joists. It may not squeak now but after a couple winters......
mortar sanding with a brick was brilliant
might be hard work, but man is it fun and looks good when your all done
Nice!!
Thanks!!
You should’ve soundproofed it while you were at it. It's more expensive and more difficult, but would have been well worth it for a studio and a good selling point for an apartment.
I don't understand airspace below sleeper floor... Won't mold grow in damp environment against concrete floor. No air flow requirements?
This should be fine. I’m installing a mini-split in this room, and the air cycling will circulate the joist bays as well. There are lots of little cracks and nooks for air to escape and transfer. Plus the floor really has been bone dry this entire times. That’s why we started sealing foundations!
You are correct. There is a danger of moisture in this situation. Maybe not from outside, but condensation from differing temperatures can also cause moisture issues. Code requires a vapor barrier under all concrete slabs that will be in conditioned spaces. Since this slab wasn't originally in a conditioned space, there's a pretty good chance that there's no vapor barrier.
Would not clear the groove with your finger 😲 sure it will work until you get a giant splinter in your finger or worse under your fingernails! Definitely use a screwdriver or anything else to get rid of chips in the groove 👍
A truly honest non Amazon gadget thing to do 😊
Hahaha love your helper.😄
Came with the house! 😆👍
Good job! Thank you for detailed info on the project! Waiting for the next one!
did your helper at least cook the fish for dinner and invite you? Great job, been thinking about a floating floor for my garage due to bad concrete but I wont go with anything more than a 2x2 sleeper with 12" centers due to an unusally low garage door
My helper seems intent on keeping that fish, Erica. 😂 I see what you mean about the low garage door. I’ve done similar methods for smaller floors too. Good luck with the project if you tackle it in the future!
The advantech I got was super beat up too. I think they hand select it for the sponsored videos
I should have tried for the sponsorship, David 😵
Excellent......really liked this project!
Love the beater bar idea. Thanks both!
Thanks Christian! That’s speeds things up sooo much 😁
Should've placed a thick plastic down as a moisture barrier, then insulated between the floor joints
I don’t know why you were in such a hurry to get that sheeting down before your plumbing???
A lot of extra work and frustration
But on wood sheeting I screw RV grab handles to make moving and positioning easier. The cheap plastic ones nothing fancy. If there is an RV repair shop close by you can probably get them for free. Just about any crate from a RV manufacturer has them. I know I have a box of them and quit collecting and throw away.
No prying edges
Easy to use lifting straps with too
I see them on Amazon for 5-10 bucks
Much easier than screw heads to pull up sheets with. And if you get enough for free you add grab handles to things just for convenience
VAPOR BARRIER PRO TIP , dbl sure , life long tip retired civil eng, 40 yrs exp hands on in the fiel
We did this 30 years ago? we laid a pressure treated 2x4, on the slab, with sill seam under the board. We ran a 1x4, on top, and milled it down to level, using a power planner. Put down a house wrap of the day, then screwed another 2x4 on top, and then put down hardwood. (lol). Yep, 30 years ago. We had 7' ceilings, so, a 2x12 was not an option.
are you concerned that treated joists may signifigantly shrink and the associated issues?
Joist are untreated! That’s why I used the joist tape for the undersides. Only the bands at front and back are treated, and they’re already cut to be below floor level.
Great video, looking forward to the completion.
Your pride in home ownership is palpable. Feels goid, doesn’t it? 👍
Thank you, Monkey! It does indeed 😁
Didnt glue the subfloor sheets down?
I need to take them back up when we remodel!
Those OSB connectors work great, that's why my previous owner used them on the deck.
...
Yes, outside, in the rain.
🤦♂️
You should have sealed the concrete floor before you started to prevent moisture from passing though and causing mold under the framing.
I’d put pressure treated joists over a vapor barrier.
Great video! I learn more from watching pros tackle oddball projects like this than on new construction.
Thank you, Matt! I definitely wanted to document this one a little bit because it was such a weird but necessary step for the garage remodel. Always have to deal with the unique jobsite conditions on projects like this. I’m glad it was helpful-this solution really made it pretty easy!
I'd never trust the vapour barrier under a slab for anything - even if the room seems dry, with that wide-open garage door you can have quite a lot of moisture coming up through the floor and you'd never know about it. Protecting your timber is the right choice.
I'd go a step further, and look for a way to dehumidify the space under your timber flooring. You just closed off the ventilation to the slab, so if there is any moisture it's just going to accumulate now.
I am surprised that with your experience and fame you do not have a supplier that would give you better wood. Maybe if you had one that you could state on camera -- naming them them -- and say what a good batch of wood you got, they might do a better job.
AJ is one good-looking master carpenter!
They did our boy Ethan dirty with that lumber package, if I’m that supplier I’m embarrassed and offering a discount
Why not insulate below the floor?
It’s just a shop for now. I’ll insulate later when we convert to an apartment, after we run plumbing.
Why would you do this? That space underneath will lack ventilation and be a great place for mold growth. Also a great place for vermin to nest. God help you if the area ever gets even a little water in it.
Why not just coat the existing floor with a high quality epoxy or some other coating?
The underfloor will circulate with the hvac. Even if a pipe bursts later on, that’s no different from a typical leak-you fix, and it’ll dry out over time. Vermin try to nest in every house. You just catch them. But as I mentioned, the floor is too heavily sloped to be a good shop surface, and I’ll plumb this room later.
You could interpolate the firings.
You made a mistake in not using vapor barrier between floor and wood; air flow is necessary, your rim joist should have been joined on a floor joist.
Pretty good job but wouldn’t pass in California or snow country
Wouldn't a laser line have been easier to mark hi/low on the joists than a string line?
Unfortunately the room was slightly out of level, so I had to build to match that imperfection!
@@TheHonestCarpenter Ahh ok, thanks. Good know
I dread doing any framing projects anymore because of the terrible quality of lumber that is available.
Definitely have to hold your breath when the truck shows up sometimes, Steve 😬
Would never dream of running floor joists 24 on center.. especially using chip board. Doesn’t matter if it 3/4 that stuff will eventually sag.
It’s not chip board, it’s strand board. Do you know the difference? What about strand matting? Core density vs surface density? Resin ratio?🤔
@@TheHonestCarpenteryeah and it doesn’t matter how you try and church it up lol its osb and is inferior to plywood in every way that matters. And it’s not so much you cheaped out on going osb it’s that you did so going 24 on center.