Wood Elves vs Bretonnia Warhammer The Old World Live Battle Report
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
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Love the table terrain...
Great battle report as always 👍
it's a bit sad that with this new format you cannot really see the minis.. :(
You two have the bestest battle reports!
Late to this but: drilled let's you redress the ranks before you move.
Redress the ranks is HALF your movement to redress. So average infantry becomes movement 2 before moving.
You CAN use it to pursue and redress.. but your pursuing like 2 + 2d6 so it takes a but away from your pursuit roll.
Redress and charge is a huge negative as its 2+ d6 which isn't very far at all.
You don't add your move to a pursuit roll . You also get to try and reform after as long as you don't hit another unit
So far, any game I've seen where one side has a dragon (or pegasus) and the other side doesn't ends up being a blowout
Characters on big monsters should be cool. I don't want to go back to 8th where they were a liability and two cannons worth a fraction of their points all but guaranteed kill them before they did anything.
@@MarkAndTerra That's fair, but there's still a difference between being cool and being unkillable machines that take on armies by themselves. So far the meta is leaning more towards the second than the first
There was a battle on this or MWG where a Saurus on a Carnosaur got taken down due to static combat res. In my dozen or so games, characters on monsters feel appropriately powerful but are easy to counter.
@@nickvaughn7300 Have you played against the Chaos Lord with 2+/5+/5+ saves, high elf player with Sun dragon and 4+ ward, or Brettonian lord on hippogryph with ogre blade and hatred? not saying all the monsters are broken but there are a couple standouts that seem way over the top, especially the first two
Counter them with champions and great weapon wielding troops. Shooting helps to weaken them and then it is finish off time. For me, they feel balanced.
I f'n LOVE the tables you guys play on!
If an enemy unit flees as a charge reaction, it is NOT a failed charge and the charging unit moves the full distance. (p.129)
Question which maybe someone can help with. If a charavter has a special rule which impacts how the character can act if they are mounted can they still use it.
Specific example. Orc warboss has warband (reroll charge distance). If they were to be on a chariot or even better a wyvern would that still apply?
Enjoyed the battle! It did kinda show off the more “negative “ side of the new rules , my experiences thus far with my Bretonnia has been similar, just constant charges and steam rolling until the enemy dies…. Maybe an army can be found that would be a good matchup for the power house Duke?a chaos dragon or something? Looking forward to next weeks games !!
I've noticed the same thing. I haven't seen a batrep yet, except for 1 (with lots of rules issues on another channel) where Brets lost. They just seem to steam roll everything.
@@bencarroll8218 glad someone else noticed! Because they count as charging every round they basically hit faster than elves harder than chaos, but IF you can blunt the lance....
When people shall bring 4+ regiments of night goblins with fanatics and some good stugff going with it, then brets will know the fear of god! Also dwarfs can prepare some nasty surprises for them. It is just beginnings. I love this warhammer edition - it is so far the best one and most balanced.
I played Brettonia last night against ogre kingdoms, they hard countered my knights. Only the Duke and 3 Pegasus knights survived. We won exclusively because of unfortunate rolls on break checks where he back to back fled and rolled no higher than 4 inches to escape. Big multi wound models are a definite defense against the knight bois. Even my Duke lost 2 wounds and the Pegasus knights were down a model and a wound at the end. 2 full units of knights, 2 big men at arms blocks all went down easy without too much return fire.
@@chadchaddington3646 well fought! Tbf ogres do that to everyone 😝 kill them all at once is the only way to make sure you don’t get hit back lol
Steve, never apologies for being a nerd and making spreadsheets for something you love.
his spreadsheets are wrong though. Arcane bracer does more damage vs models with a 5+ save or better
I’ve heard Steve and Luka mention that dispelling has to beat the casting value to succeed. But in the reference guide at the back of the rule book it says you need to equal or beat, was this FAQ’d or is that correct? Thanks all, loving this game so far! ❤
It says higher on the page in the actual magic section. Many people assume the reference guide is a typo. I figure folks who had access to the rules in advance would know which is correct.
@@williamcheek2778thanks!
what an absolutely magnificent table!
Thoes Bretts look so good, makes me want to start an army >.
Do it
Man, I wish you guys weren't so far away. Down in the middle of the States.
Drilled: if special rules overrule general rules, then drilled could allow a maneuver that would otherwise not be allowed, ie. before charging. But I do agree, I think the intent was for movement phase.
I have not got this far into the video, my group agreed that drilled means you can also do it before the charge as we thought it was too niche otherwise.
The lance formation is insanely ambiguous in the book... for example outside knights in the lance are considered in the fighting rank and base to base contact with the enemy unit, but if I have a character there then who/how many enemy models is it in base contact with ? All of them ??? Do they get to declare all their attacks against my character ? Doesn't seem to be thought out well and wasn't clarified in the recent FAQ
yes, and yes. Not ambiguous
Would charge blocking the wild riders with dryads or something be a viable way to stop frenzy charges?
I think Steve covered it , basically unlike Luka who embraces the madness of frenzy and impetuous and isn't above using blocking and facing etc to minimise its impact, Steve feels it's a bit "gamey" so won't do that which is fair enough.
My Mortis Engine from VC 8th edition blew up half my opponents Wood Elves once, 1200p of dead elves. ^^
Where are the Eternal guard getting so many attacks from?! They don't get 2A in the front rank anymore!
Also it says a lance gets blunted if it fails a charge?! That's definitely new.
I found grail knights to be a bit underwhelming. They pack a serious punch but with them only being 1 Wound and having to rely on ward saves to stay alive means they can just get destroyed by one turn of shooting by outriders. Personally i'd take Pegasus Knights over them any day. Cheaper (in groups of 3), faster and higher survivability
sad that I missed this game live, good to see wood elves out there even if they're getting run down by knights ;p
Good battle report
well played lads! This gets my revved up to start my lizardmen that I bought while visiting! :D
Those knights look amazing.
Nice batrep but the camera is so far away it’s hard to tell what’s going on.
Another great batrep, love to see more Bretonnians
I can't see a rule to clarify if characters on their own after their unit is destroyed can only rally on double 1s (Insurmountable Losses rule) or they become a "new" unit on their own... In older Fantasy editions they would need double 1s as they were counted as the same unit. Maybe this will need a FAQ ?
In older fantasy editions it was the opposite, the unit was gone so they were a "full unit" on their own
Around 6th/7th edition I remember an FAQ which confirmed they remained part of the unit which made people reconsider small bunkers protecting wizards as they just kept fleeing. Then in 8th I think it got FAQ'd the other way and a character became a new unit on their own after the last rank and file model was removed. Although that also meant a panic check as the "old unit" was destroyed 😂
Hey gang, from Italy. Great battle report as always! Can i ask you, Steve, to explain why it is best never to take a champion in a monster fighting unit like the Wildwood Rangers? Could your champion just have refused the challenge against the duke? That way you get presumably more attacks from the rank and file guys?
Also it keeps being said that befuddlememt is -1 to hit in combat if in base contact with BSB but its just -1WS & -1Initiative so usually increases the WE roll to hit but usually leaves the Bret's roll to hit the same.
There is a rule called ‘Nowhere to hide’ which means they can’t refuse a challenge if they don’t have another rank to retreat to.
@JamesPHewitt but it looked like he did have somewhere to hide, he was in a full ranked unit
I need more Bretonnian representation! FOR THE LADY!
Why did the grail knights (initiative 8) not get all there attacks va the wild riders (initiative 8)? He pulled 2 but never made there attacks, and all same initiative units make attacks at the same time. He should have gotten 11, not 7
Question 2; the wild riders counter charged but the rules for that say they have to pivot to directly face the unit they’re counter charging them move, wouldn’t the peasants then be flanking them?
Elves get +1 initiative first turn of combat.
Long time since I have seen someone play Wood Elves so badly.
Do deepwood scouts have reserve move???
Anyone know what that intro music is? I'd like to use it for combat encounters fro my next rpg session. Great batrep, as always!
I think it is from the Witcher 3 OST? or at least it has the same feel.
Seemed like Steve didn‘t have fun with the wood elves :(
No i had fun. I dont blame the wood elves for anything that happened in this game tho lol
Happy to hear you had fun :)
Why are the Wild Riders 3 Attacks base in the fight vs the Knights & Men-at-arms?
Counter charged cav for +1 from furious charge and +1 for frenzy
They only moved 2” though?? Furious Charge only applies if you move 3” or more
@@christophersmith2279 i had to read it for myself and check ! You are right 3" for it to trigger..I'm guessing it was an oversight as other charge bonuses (except impact hits ) get used... they'd still have smashed the unit with enough attacks 😁 but good catch
Uhmm Steve? Did you forget to open the door for the Lady when you walked into the studio? Cause it kinda looks like she hates you
What’s the load out on the Bretonnian lord besides the virtue of knightly temper?
Guided cuirass (5+ regen)
I love the fact you did the math too!!!
I made an app on my local computer that will run the %'s for me for most match ups
The unit of Wild Riders vanguarded. May they charge first turn?
@@grlmgor So every unit that vanguarded may charge first turn or is it forbidden unless they have frenzy?
Vanguard units can't march, it doesn't say they can't charge (p180).
@@samhatfield7732 + @grimgor Well that I did not know, thank you for clarification.
@@axeltouborg787 I think you were confusing Vanguard for Scout, which allows a unit to "be deployed anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 12" away from an enemy model. If deployed in this way, Scouts cannot declare a charge during their first turn." (p177)
Eternal Guard are WS5 so wouldve hit the knights on 3s, in the first combat they got in.
The first knight they fought were Questing Knightsm who are also WS5, hitting on 4's
@MountainMiniatures Oh my bad, I thought the KOTR got hit on 4s for some reason.
I have 1st and 2nd edition.
Does shooting work in tow other than into unarmored dark elves
Not if you can't roll for shit. Source: my first game of Old World I played today.
Traditionally shooting is supposed to whittle a few ranks before combat. In this edition it can do this effectively. Cannons and overcast spells removing monsters and blocks was a big thing in 8th however that seems to have been removed.
sorry, but it cant do it effectively... Rank and file shooting is way too expensive (at least for wood elfs!) compared to how effective it is. Wood elf shooting very rarely is worth it in this edition. You pay 1,5-2,5x point cost for single core shooter compared to other armies core choices, hitting is nerfed and wounding is hard. For example for this matchup you get around 30 man at arms at the cost of 10 glade guards (with bodkins), 10 glade guards hit on average 4+ (long range, possible moving, cover, stanfing still), wounds 4+, so they kill on average 2 man at arms per shooting. They get to shoot around 4 rounds before combat and then they got rekt by man at arms in close combat ( they get outnumbered). This is close combat edition.@@christopherblackburn6811
My comments are being removed when i state you are indeed incorrect?:D atleast i cant see my comments... Rank and file shooting was nerfed (especially wood elfs!) and in most cases its not worth the points. At the wood elf case its maybe worth against heavily armoured with low toughness (using bodkins). Against cheap core which almost every other faction has, its not worth it (Wood elf shooting is waaay too pricey, compared to what you get. You pay 1,5-3x points compared to most other factions core troop points for shooting that might(!) get some points back). This edition is heavily close combat focused. Rank and file shooting may be good in some special cases, when close combat is always way to go (like wild riders are awesome).@@christopherblackburn6811
@@christopherblackburn6811 you shave off a rank maybe, then they land into melee and destroy your archers entirely... Ranged units in this game are entirely situational, they have to be protected, but my thoughts are, you only get value from them for half the game at most. at some point most units are in combat and there's nothing else to shoot at.
On a hill, behind a line of sturdy infantry where the enemy has no fliers or fast cavalry flankers to get around, they would be worth the points.
This game is all about the battle line first. Everything else is secondary. If your battle line breaks, you get flanked and outnumbered, break flee and die.
Poisons on arrows are good, but best I think are -2 to armour or multiple shot x2 - offcourse it always depends on target. Poisons are better on orcs or dwaf - T4 or more.
army for sale?
I look forward to seeing some foot knights
@@grlmgor Wait why would you say they suck??? there they are kinda awesome no?
damn they are better then most infantry. Hell they are dirt cheap for what they give you.
@@grlmgor yeah iv played a bunch of games, a ton of games. Furious Charge alone makes them way way way better then dwarfs, the Ward is unheard of on infantry, literally the best in the game.
the extra move over a dwarf...
@@MountainMiniatures Looking forward to seeing you use em you and Luka keep being awesome
Knights on foot look solid for cost, nothing wrong with the unit
@@grlmgor Chosen have a 6+ Ward, the Knights get theirs boosted to 5+ when hit by str5.
the forsaken have a 5+ all the time, but are 80% more expensive, but also have better stats, but then they have impetuous. i dont think your being objective.
Im not trying to come off as condescending, i know that this question will come off that way tho. but im sincerely asking, have you played many games of the old world.
i find our community is so small a lot of people read stats and compare them to their experiences with past editions
👍👍
More dragons plz.
they need to remove marching column, or single rank units from the game. Force 3 models in ranks. Cap unit width at 10. Simple. I agree with Steve drilled is not intended to allow readdress on charges.
great battle report, although I disliked the mission rules! Eternal Guard last stand was fantastic. I got to try get some of them built, so hard to find any to purchase atm
why do they need to change that?
Drilled feels like it was made specifically for that. But I can see the issue with it working like that too so idk
from a purely logical stand point, we have heavy cavalry moving and charging quicker than any fast cav. A friend of mine who 'does not agree with the rule', is abusing this with dragon princes, who even move 8 now with ithilmar barding. But low and behold they can bolt up the field at x3 mach speed, then reform or readdress the ranks. Both rules are bogus and leave a bad taste in the mouth when you play against it @@dippywilson3741
Drilled is specifically made to work with Redress the Ranks. The problem is that everyone thinks it's a Reform. You only get to change your front rank by 5 models.
Gotta love when someone plays WE and the tabletop is full of forests...
Skaven legacy army is proper crap
so much shilling in this
Gotta pay the bill or i cant make these battle reports.