The Bortle Scale
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- Опубликовано: 16 ноя 2022
- The Bortle scale is one of those things I wish didn't exist because it's a scale for measuring light pollution. But, knowing your bortle could actually save you time and money .
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Clear outside weather/bortle app:
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I live in a Bortle 5 and have a class 4 zone reasonably close. I have been to a Bortle 3 before and it was actually tricky to make out some of the constellations as so many more stars were visible. I have a 6" SCT that I use at home and a more portable 5" reflector that I take to the class 4 location. Between these two I've managed to see and sketch 89 objects from the Messier catalogue to date. So it is possible to see quite faint objects from a Bortle 5 zone. The fainter galaxies in Leo, Virgo and Coma Berenices were tricky to see but a little patience revealed them. Not much detail to be seen of course but it was good to bag them. Useful video on the subject - thanks 😀
I'm in a bortle 2 . Didnt realize how lucky I am. My issue are freezing cold in the winter and bugs after that. I just ordered a dwarf 2 so hopefully I put it to good use. Thanks for taking the time to make these videos Jason, your one of my favorites. Cheers
Wow class 2 is wild! I’ve never seen under a class 6 and I currently live in class 9.
Perfect timing, this video drops just an hour before I drive across the country to pickup a LX80 mount. I needed some motivation for the long drive :)
Bortle 2 here in this part of the Rocky Mountains. We're 12 miles to the closest town (+/-250 people), and can't even see the town itself. ....I just got an Orion XT8, and pick it up Monday. Can't wait!
I'm in Bortle 8 and was able to see hints of the Whirlpool galaxy in a 10 inch dob. I even glimpse the Crab nebula in a 6in with well adapted night seeing and dark sky. It was however INCREDIBLY faint. Can't stress that enough, INCREDIBLY FAINT!
How are you able to adapt to the night in bortle 8? Isnt everything completely light around you
@@mimimimek3488 When I said night adapted I mean I was outside for over 30 min. Even in Bortle 8 it is darker outside than in the house. Point is if I am outside for a while I can see stuff that I can't when I am in and out of the house.
I really enjoy listening to you ! I live under a 7 on the Bottle scale now .I did at one time live under a bottle 3 sky, when I got my first telescope in the 60's with a 60 mm refractor .
As I grew up I still lived in same town ,and move closer in town ,I got an 8 inch reflector ,and then sold my 8 in telescope and bought an 10 inch reflector ,and later a 12 inch Orion intelligence scope .My skies grew from an 4 to five on the Bottle scale ,I only took my 10 or 12 inch to dark sky locations now,, because the city has move to me .I now take an 6 inch out now , which I made myself , because of Bottle 7 skies now ! Naked eye stars ar hard to see , I can see stars only about to 4.6 or 4.5 magnitude stars under exceptions skies I can see the ring nebula ,and the dumb bell nebula .It hard to find deep sky objects now because so many guide stars are gone .
I could find them in the 12 inch intelligent scope ,but it is a chore getting it out .I would have to set up during the day for the night ,but putting it back in garage is an safe hazard due to uneven areas in my yard .
You are quite right about light pollution effecting seeing in large telescopes .
I use to volunteer 2 nights at an observatory in Atlanta ,Georgia showing the public objects in small telescopes .People would go and look at objects in the 36 inch reflector in the observatory ,then they come out to look abjects on smaller scopes .They ask why object is clear in small scope and not the large .I total them what you said ,Larger the telescope it amp amplified the light pollution ,and the eyepiece is focused to astronomer"s eyes ,but I allowed them to focus the object to their eyes . I would get people returning 3 or 4 times in line to see the object again ,because they were disappointed what they saw in the large 36 inch telescope .
As a complete beginner I found your Bortle explanation very interesting, thank you.
Thanks for your videos!
just to note that Clear Outside is not available anymore in Android (Google Play tells me it was made for older version, and my phone is quite old already)
Thanks!
Love your content sir
Thanks for helping us in our cosmic journey, all the love
Great video as always Jason! Clear skies.
Well explained!
Super great video, i really enjoy and learn a lot from your videos Thanks Jason!!!
Sent you a Thanks! You have helped me work out this hobby so much, Thank you sir!
Hi Just wanted to thank you for you're guidance in all things backyard astronomy, keep it up, i'll stay tuned
Excellent video. How about light pollution filters, do they work ?
I appreciate you for guiding me to the clear outside app really neat
I really needed this video. It helped me put things into perspective. I have a celestron starsense explorer 130 mm aperture and 650 focal. With a light pollution filter on a 25 mm eyepiece, I was able to see a blemish concerning the andromeda galaxy as well as a blemish with dumbbell nebula. I was dancing on the ceiling because in my area, bortle 9 area I didn't think I would see such dso. That and watching another of your videos reminding me to keep expectations reasonable.
Thank you so much for this video!
I live in a Bortle 3 and have a 10 inch Dobsonian. I use the Clear Outside app and like it for detailed weather and seeing. I must admit I have been one of those that have not been bothered to use my telescope, but on seeing this it is a crime that I am not with the skies I have. I love to go out and sit and look at the skies but have not been drawn to zooming in on features, I was actually wondering about a pair of binoculars with a wide field of view. Thank you for motivating me to do more than I have been.
Hi Jason,
thanks for your advice! : )
Noe I will use "clear outside". It`s so helpful!
I lived for years under a bortle 6-7 sky....awfull, but even there under condtions I could see Andromeda...in very clear nights.
Now I live a bit more country side under Bortle 4...and yeah in clear nights it is amazing.
Once I was in vacation in a bortle 2 area...it blew me away, but it was hard to find objects, because you saw sooo much stars!!!! So wonderfull! ; )
CS and bortle one for everyone! ; )
Learning the basics of astronomy from your videos. We live in Bortle 5 area. Recently, my wife gifted me a refractor telescope 105mm aperture. So hope to explore the skies.
I moved from a Bortle 3 location, 650 feet up in an Exmoor valley, to a 4+ in West Somerset, near the Bristol Channel, with misty/cloudy nights. The difference was so bad it made me weep.
I'm in Bortle 5.5, with Bortle 1 and 2 just an hour away. A larger aperture does improve point source objects such as star and even globular clusters, because the larger aperture collects more parallel light from the star. Diffuse objects will suffer much more as a result of light pollution. Altitude above sea level also helps a lot, and so does low humidity. I'm at 5400 ft ASL, and often have 10% relative humidity even in the winter, and those are clearly my best nights. Your video is great, you keep it easy for everyone to understand. Thank you.
Great video Jason. I live in Bortle 4 but with some annoying street lights near by, thankfully I can set up in the "shade".
My brother's old back yard in Louisiana was a Bortle scale 3.5 and during the Winter, if you looked at the Perseus Arm of the Milky Way with a pair of binoculars, there were so many stars that it looked like someone poured salt all over a solid black table.
I think I Live in a bortle scale 3
Cause i can see Orion nebula with my naked eyes and i can see it very clearly
Bortle 2 but I have had 1 mainly on days like half moon
Happy to see your upload
I intend to get a ten inch dob and I’ve been told that Ruislip lido which is two miles away is an excellent place to star gaze.it means a bit of muscle getting there and back but gonna be worth it hopefully!🙏🏻
Thank you.
Very insightful video. The Clear Outside App tip was extremely helpful! Unfortunately, my area is only rated a 6 which is most likely why I have not been so successful in finding deep-sky objects with my 8“ DOB. I am always dreaming about a 12“ SCT, but now I will go with a 4/5“ APO refractor.
Hi Jason! How are you? Nice video again. Yes, I knew the bortle scale a while and it helped me find a great spot: the fields at my parents house! :) In my memory the stars where much brighter there and there were a lot more, but I used to thin: oh, that is just my memory as a kid. Turned out to be 3 classes darker there than where I live now! Clear skies Jason!
I got a 10'' dob to use in my city. I moved it to my mom's house 2 hours away and man does that make a difference! Going over the milky way on Bortle 3 skies is an amazing experience.
I'm in a Bortle 5 area, but only 10 minutes from a 4 rated area, so not too bad, all in all. My last address was a Bortle 6, the difference between a 6 and a 5 is quite large, I noticed the difference on the first clear night. Thanks for the video!!
I am Bortle 8 😭 However with my 100ED I can see many diffuse objects although very dim, so don't be discouraged by all those who are starting out and are under heavy polluted skies. Try to take advantage of the best nights, especially in the early morning. Considering the dates that are coming, I recommend visiting the beautiful Christmas Tree in Monoceros (NGC 2264), accesible to all apertures.
I live under Bortle 5, though 25 years ago it was Bortle 3. 90 min drive and I can be in 2.8 to 3. Even those over time will deteriorate. Sad.
One way to optimise to signal to noice ratio is to use EAA. Some additional gear is required for that. But just with a telscope amd eyekiecom in my bortle 6 backyard between the houses I am still able to manually find and observe most DSOs. Galaxies are getting tricky though.
EAA is, as you suggest, a game-changer - esp. for those observing in high Bortle Scale locations.
Hi Jason, very well explained..., iam thinking the same, my 8 inch dob does a good job on little nebulais and galaxies.., clear skys..!!!
I live under Bortle 8 skies and own an 8 inch Dob and I'm not the greatest at finding deep-sky objects, and I've actually found the Ring Nebula to be one of the easier targets in the sky. Even the Dumbell Nebula and Bode's Galaxies are visible (but difficult). Otherwise great video Jason, I especially like the point you made about using larger telescopes in the city!
actually though, the highest useful magnification is directly related to the diameter of the optics, as well as is the resolution capability. Hence, the bigger the telescope the more detail is discernible on DSOs and the highest magnification you can use.
Muy interesante tu video , intructivo , te saludo desde buenos Aires Argentina
Jason please make a video on how to see a meteor showers in bottle 6 skies
Thanks
Thank you Martin very much appreciated my friend
Hi Jason! I really enjoy and learn a lot with your videos and you are really cool :) I just bought my first telescope, a 5" Dobson and I am looking forward to your next videos and live. 😊
Hello Lilly, thank you so much, very much appreciated. Enjoy your new telescope 😊
Bortle 2.1 in Australia, im loving it!!
Brilliant Thanks mate, I am lucky being at Bortle 3. But this time of year it is pretty cloudy :(
thanks I didnt know about that app until I saw this
I'm in a Bortle 8 😡 But last week I was able to see the Orion Nebula with binos.
You're very right about larger telescopes in light polluted skies... I own everything from binoculars to a 16 inch reflector... the binoculars definitely get the most use in most skies. Love seeing dim Nebulae in dark skies through a huge scope but it's a luxury versus a necessity
Use filters
I live in bortle 8 skies
I am 18 years old and recently realised the beauty of night skies and i crave viewing a proper clear sky . I want to know whether i can see milky way arm in bortle sky 4 with naked eyes .
I am currently in a Bortle 7 area and have a 130mm aperture, same nightwatcher as you, but I cannot see the andromeda galaxy but can see the pliadeis barely. possibly because there are usually flood lights shooting into the garden as well.
Here in Montgomeryshire I live under a Bortle 3/4 sky which is great, except that this being Wales means we have uncooperative weather.
It's an awesome number 3 at my house. Red lights are a must have or you can't see anything you are doing when changing things
I can see many of the fainter DSO’s in my 12” dobsonian in bortle 6. All you have to do is use the appropriate filters to bring out the nebula and block the sky glow. When chasing doubles aperture is still king
I am loving your channel Jason! I only got my first telescope a couple of days ago! I am very lucky enough to live in a Bortle 3 country town in South Australia. Tried to install the Clear Outside app but my Samsung Galaxy S22 Ultra is too new apparently. Any other suggestions? Thanks for all you do! Cheers, Maz :)
@mariannezammit3738: I think the App only works on Apple phones.
My hometown went though a boom, infact within the last 30 years my town and surrounding citys were all the highest population growth areas in all of Canada for a while due to Newfoundland population restructuring. In my lifetime my sky went from 1 or maybe 2 to 6 or more likely 7. Meanwhile, you can drive for less than a hour and get to a sky of 1!, well when it's not cloudy, clouds are our biggest obstruction 😄
Hello there, I hear you bud.. If its not light pollution it's the dreaded clouds.. I can't wait for a 'cloud filter' to be invented😉
@@smalloptics753 🤣🤣🤣
@@smalloptics753im in germany and im not that far from a bortle 4.5
I’m in Devon with Bortle 3 .. few miles from Dartmoor.
I live in the area that has scale of 2-3. But having a clear sky at night is 1/10 chance. It is always cloudy here at night even in summer.
Mate I'm in the most southern part of new Zealand and for 3 days now it's been just cloud I can't even see Jupiter the app says tonight is 4 bottle and sky quality of 21.51
@@jackburdon5202 it is very frustrating right? That even in a less light polluted area, you won't be able to enjoy the sky
I'm lucky enough to live under Bortle 4, with Bortle 1 skys only 45 minutes down the road.
In words on Dirty Harry “man should now his limitations “. LOL!
Haha! Love it 👍
I'm under a Bortle 4 at home but only just over an hours drive from Exmoor.
WOW, feel much better after seeing this.. I just bought some property 1.15 acres ontop of a mountain to put a home.. wasn't aware of what the sky's Bortle was when we picked it.. because we already lived in the city with a bortel 5 which sucked IMO .. ( city has light pollution laws.. NOT all inforced :) .. But.. I found an app and it says I'm Bortle 3 at the property... I'd like to get it double check cuz I think it maybe a 2.5 Bortle if that's possible?? ( APP goes by zip code basically )
Went back there after we purchased it. so check the night skies.. I KNEW it would be much darker than where I was currently.
home should be done in 2 months.. excited to built my observatory! . already have the 8" telescope, with a f/2.0 Hyperstar !! can't wait to use it all !!!!
Yes a dark sky bortle is nice but as a photographer I can capture the Milky Way and stars even in may neighborhood away from the ocean. I have been out west and to a Pa bortle zero place.and yellow light is even there even grad canyon. I find any place next to the oceans.
I live in a zone 2 and can drive about 20 minutes to a zone 1. It’s easy to take for granted when it’s what you’re used to, but I looked at the global light pollution map a while back and didn’t realize how uncommon that is, much less in North America. I really would take advantage of it and get into amateur astronomy.
What does it look like through your naked eyes my sky's are very dark but i can only see maybe a hundred stars
I can see Orion nebula through my naked eyes is that good?
Would you raccomend the Skywatcher Explorer 130/900 as a starter telescope? I'd like to buy it, but I've heard many say with the same price I could get a larger and more stable dobsonian, and that 130mm of aperture just leaves you wanting more. What should I do?
Wish I watched this video in January before I purchased my 12 inch dob. Great video Jason and I haven't come across the topic on utube for beginners explained better. However, can you help me to understand fully if having a 12 inch dob in bortle 7 is actually hurting the image as opposed to just being overkill and performing as an 8 inch instead because of the light pollution? This was my intention when making the purchase because I planned on traveling a couple times a year to darker sites to take full advantage. However, after watching this video I'm under the impression the scope was a bad investment and would have been better off with something smaller for actually better views. I guess size dose matter if it's matched for your Bortle...
Thanks Small optics for such a clear and informative video on the Bottle scale. I just wanted to point out that the 'Clear outside' app that you mentioned in the video was made for older versions of android and it isn't available for the newer versions. Could you suggest some alternatives?
Bruh it's bortle, not bottle
@@SaneGuyFrI know that. That probably was an autocorrect by the keyboard.
Hi Jason I'm not doing astrophotography any more in bortle 4 or 5 skies again because in march I was in bortle 3 skies near the cairngorms national park with Huawei p40pro and wow what a huge difference from bortle 6. In bottle 3 you could see how bright onions stars were. Galloway area I was in was bortle 1 and well its super dark. Highlands of Scotland are ideal and the islands of skye and llewis are bortle 1.
Just fed up with light pollution and I travel to dark locations in Highlands.
I think going to dark locations are better and when moon is out of sight as the moon is worse than light pollution
I'd love to do astrophotography near the European southern observatory as there skies will be so dark with no light pollution at all.
Dark skies for me now!
You take care buddy and clear skies!
Hey Bushcraft, I went to the Highlands about 15 years ago but in mid summer so unfortunately as you know it doesn't really go dark up there that time of year would love to go back mid winter to get the full potential.. Take care buddy.
Thanks for the video 👍 I just looked up my city and I am in an 8-9 are 😕
Very generous of you thank you my friend.
I have viewed under Bortle 2 , Galloway Forest, Scotland to Bortle 9, central London, England and Bortle 's in-between this year but live under 6.The problem is just getting worse and worse and on my trip to the hospital today on the bus I noticed so many more of these lit up advertising boards.Plus virtually every flat wall seems to have a floodlight fitted to it now and generally floodlights don't seem to be fitted with off switches, sadly they have on switches.The motion sensor one's are just as bad as they spend more time on than off set off by wind,bats,cats,etc..
The one bright side of heading into a winter of severe energy crisis; There has been an obvious change in peoples tendencies to leave lights on needlessly.
Windows are dark now. The city isn't light polluting my northern horizon as much and the neighbors aren't a problem for dark adapting my eyes.
Bortle 7 sky with a 9.25 inch telescope, but I have a blinding LED streetlight right at the foot of my driveway. Ugh!
Thank you for the education.
You deserve a higher amount but these are trying times.
I've been contemplating to bring my telescope out to a more desolate location. But I live in a Bortle 4 area and it sounds like there is diminishing returns below Bortle 5.
Is it a waste of time to drive out to a Bortle 3 sky from my Bortle 4?
Very much appreciated my friend thank you.
Jason what is the answer to this man's question, I also would like to know.
Very informative content. I enjoy watching your videos.
Thank you so much my friend very much appreciated
I m approximatively in bortle 3
Is a 16 adapted ? Or a 12 ?
Thanks and good night 😎
Something to note about Clear Outside that I've noticed. The bortle it displays might be rounded down (i.e. if you're ~4.9 bortle it will display "class 4") despite being closer to a higher bortle. Using other bortle map sights suggest my skies are bortle 5 yet clear outside is the only place that displays bortle 4 which leads me to believe I'm closer to a 5 than 4. I've double checked my coordinates on CO to make sure it's accurate so I'm not getting a false reading.
EDIT: Did some more digging into this and I'm not sure what to trust, on Light Pollution Map is states my brightness is 0.71 with artificial being 539, yet CO states my brightness is 0.66 with artificial being 489. Again my coords are correct. The only thing I can think of is that these accurate measurements are from world atlas 2015. Setting it to VIIRS 2021 does dim it to a 3.8 bortle but this makes no since to me since the light pollution around me has only gotten worse, not better. So my conclusion is to only use these as rough approximations.
Not in mine it doesn’t. I’m actually a 5.9 but classed as a 6
@@Astronurd Added an edit to the comment going into more detail, basically CO uses newer estimates while other sites use older estimates. Still confusing.
Get a coffee on me. I can't figure out my Bortle # but I guess it's 4 or 5. I can see M31 and the Double Double cluster with my naked eye.
Thank you Sidney very much appreciated.
is bortel 4 good enough???
Hi Jason, I have a black 600mm x 60mm telescope second hand I live in New Zealand in a very small town so the sky has little to no light pollution. My question is could I send you pictures of my telescope to find the brand model and make as it didn't come with papers and I've searched far and wide on the internet.
I have another question on looking at Jupiter, when you for example use a 4mm eyepiece on a 600mm FL telescope, 150x, compared to 12mm eyepiece on a 1800mm FL telescope also 150x magnification, which one will have a crisper better focused image of Jupiter? Will they produce an identicle view?
higher magnification does make Jupiter appear bigger. But also kills some detail, and makes focusing difficult with the highest power eyepiece. the best eyepiece for detail is often the one with the least magnification. which could be a 20mm. (Could be 30mm if you have that eyepiece.)for me the best is the 15mm. I have a 700/70 power seeker. where the limiting magnitude for me is around +12. Where your telescopes might range in the +13 to +15 magnitude range. But the limiting magnitude depends on your aperture size. For your 60mm scope the limiting magnitude is around +10.5. (+11 in bortle 1.)
Hope this helps a little
I'm supposedly in a Bortle 6 area. 🙄
Are light pollution filters worth buying??
Hello Dermot, filters can help with light pollution yes but they have mixed opinions if they are worth the money I've used them in the past for visual and didn't really see much difference admittedly it wasn't an expensive filter I was using so it could have just been that. I do know people who have the more delux LP filters and swear by them. So like in most cases it sounds like you get what you pay for.
@@smalloptics753 I hear you Jason 👍, thanks a mill for the reply, dark sky's are the best way forward, always looking forward to your next video 😎
I live in Bortle 9. I can't see anything besides Jupiter, Saturn, the moon and a couple stars >:( can't wait to move outa here.
If I may ask where do you live, in a cave or tunnel? 🤣
@@jackburdon5202 inner city, very annoying place to live for this hobby.
If you drink enough bottles you can see all sorts of stuff , I like to start with at least 6 bottles , ............what ? ... bortles ? oh , nevermind......
🤣😂
First :)
ok
Blue Peter badge is on its way
It is also funny how it works out in my Bortle 6 out the back of my apartment to a Bortle 7 out the front as there is more light in that direction.
Also it you can get to the top of a building it helps to avoid the side light coming at you. There is a guy on RUclips who lives in London and he finds it helpful to do his astrophotography from the top of buildings. I have a friend who lives in a 3 story apartment and from his balcony I get a better view than I get at ground level.
I live about 15 minutes from Bortle 4 and when facing the south or west where the city light domes are you cannot aim at low objects like Scorpius DSOs and the C80 or more commonly known as the Omega Centauri, the largest known globular cluster in the Milky Way is only visible three months of the year. It is easily visible by eye, but only in dark skies looking south.
My closest viewing spot is Bortle 4 with a low light ratio and is a 15 minute drive, but my son's house is Bortle 4 with a high ratio that means he is close to Bortle 5.
Here is a link to the Light Pollution Map of the World. Just click on your location and a box pops up with the pertinent information for that spot.
www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=4.00&lat=45.8720&lon=14.5470&layers=B0FFFFFFFTFFFFFFFFFFF
Thanks!
Thanks
Very much appreciated my friend, thank you
Thanks!
Thank you Matthew, very much appreciate my friend
Thanks
Thank you so much my friend.
Thanks
Your a star Sean.. Thank you very much my friend.
Thanks
Thank you my friend very much appreciated.
Thanks
Thank you Derek very much appreciated.