The Re-Discovery of Alchemy - Conversation w/ Prof. Lawrence M. Principe
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2024
- A conversation with Lawrence M. Principe about the new historiography of alchemy, the Liber Lucis of John of John of Rupescissa and how historical and spiritual alchemy might benefit one another.
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Fascinating! Exhausted mercury. 😮
Alchemy is hidden in the symbols in the medieval art. It's all written in ArGot
Liber Vaccae is an Onion
I've been passionate about alchemy for over 15 years, which ultimately led me to pursue a career as a materials engineer. During my studies in metallurgy, I stumbled upon Biringuccio's "De la Pirotechnia," which resonated with the essence of alchemy. By that time, I approached a senior professor to explore the possibility of conducting research in this area. Unfortunately, there was limited expertise on the topic within the department. I often wonder if I'll ever have the opportunity to apply a scientific lens to alchemy from the perspectives of metallurgy and chemistry.
DO IT.
This would be such a great contribution to the scholarly literature. You should do it.
How did you get into that field? I have always wanted to do something like that, similar story
@@7R15M3G1 hey it started by finding the pseudo Flamel book in my city's public library. Then I had a physics teacher from highschool who lent me the Mutus liber. By the end of highschool I was also reading Robert Bartlett's The way of the crucible. And so it continued...
Using oxidation, the transmutation itself, as a power source reveals interesting endeavors. Oxidation itself is quite profound but of course there are many different aspects and utilities from these sciences.
And mind you things such as acid to leaven lead to promote different interactions are often obtuse in description if mentioned at all.
I don't have a resolution for you but I am far from the belief one should be deterred from the pursuit of enlightenment. Good luck
The recipe for the Philosopher's Stone is simple: Chocolate & Vanilla Ice Creams with Gobs of Chocolate chip Cookie Dough & Fudge Brownies, aka Ben & Jerry's "Half Baked"
You forgot 1/2 oz. of Green Lion, a bit of Tartarus and five hours of Influxus Coelis.
I'm an amateur chemist, a professional psychologist, and a quiet Gnostic. Alchemy is the historical pursuit of all 3. I think the modern professions would gain so much from drawing upon their collective historical basis.
Its great to hear that intro music again!
This is amazing because the secrets of alchemy by professor Principe is the first book I read after a frustrating search for a reliable author on the history of alchemy and chemistry more broadly. I’ve often wondered what a discussion between professor Principe and Esoterica would be like and then out of nowhere it actually happened!
Such an amazing discussions. Truly highlights the pertinency of open discourse and multifaceted aspect of history vs or with interpretative/creative processes. Thank you.
I certainly think there's room for both - history and myth are very important and very different
That new theme music is hauntingly pretty Doc. Nice work that composer.
So good...absolutely agreed.❤
It's never too late to be a medievalist, Professor Principe!
What a great conversation, you guys were almost entirely in sync and Principe seemed delighted by your questions, I hope we get another stream when his next work comes out or whenever a relevant topic arises.
Super nice guy, amazing scholar - it was an honor
I was just looking for more information about Lawrence M. Principe and realized I'd bought his 2012 book "The Secrets of Alchemy" years ago without realizing who the author was XD
Also it turns out he did a teaching company lecture series on the history of science from antiquity to the 1700s that I will absolutely check out. Very interesting discussion!
It's a great book. And it was recommended to me by someone in the comments on this channel or chat for a livestream.
Always love your alchemy videos
I must say, I recently finished Principe's 'Secrets of Alchemy', and it was really top quality, really enjoyed it.
It's a fantastic book and I really do hope it gets a second edition
I really like this interview about an upcoming publication. I’d love to see more interviews with scholars who recently published or will have a publication out soon. It’s also very interesting to hear discussions about what still needs to be done. The discussion about Arabic, Persian and Chinese was interesting. Thank you!
Can you see if Anderson Todd would like to be on the channel. He’s a criminally underrated youtuber and colleague of John Vervake. Love his content on alchemy.
Great interview :) I was reading The Secrets of Alchemy and then noticed this video while catching up on Esoterica. Now I'm watching The Great Courses Principe did on Science and Religion. Thanks guys!
This was such a tantalizing interview. So many possibilities, so many leads. The way Principe talks about writing critical editions makes me tempted to find a route back towards academia again.
Good work, I have Professor Principle's Teaching Company course on history of science and science of religion, great stuff.
Be nice to see Professor Sledge with an Esoterica course, closest is probably the one on The Real History of Secret Societies by Richard B. Spence, which covers many of the same topics, but mostly only in relationship to 'secret societies'.
Thank you both, gentleman🎉
Nice shout out to Bloomfield library. Thats a great library. I live in the next town over, Montclair. Now I'll have to visit.
Keep up the good work. Thanks for all you do. 😊
As a working chemist myself, this is utterly fascinating. Nothing like trying it on the bench yourself!!!
You have best intro that I've found on RUclips.
Ahh the evocative images are like headlines
Great topic.
...And the music is back for opening!! Just noticed.
I always took it for granted that alchemy was the origin/precursor to modern chemistry. It surprises me that so many people over so many generations would simply overlook it or write it off as uninformed experimentation and useless lacking the scientific method and modern chemical knowledge. I look forward to adding several new books to my reading list.
Music Intro is BACK! YES! I cannot stand the plague that is copyright pirates.
Loved hearing this! Thank you both!
Very interesting discussion! I've actually been reading a lot Fulcanelli recently; IMO he was the last of the genuine alchemists. In any case this, as with most esoteric topics, is something I've found fascinating since childhood, and as always this was an excellent discussion.
What a wonderful interview. Thank you.
Thank you so much for doing this interview Justin! I was so excited to see it on your channel. I came across Lawrence Principe's book "The Aspiring Adept: Robert Boyle and His Alchemical Quest" as I was researching late Renaissance and Early Modern theories of matter (particularly the transition from vitalism to mechanicism) and it completely changed my perspective on how alchemy was received by Early Modern chymists. Lawrence Principe is one of the scholars that I have to thank for the success of my own research and, in fact, I mention him as one of my influences in the introduction to my own book on Robert Boyle. Thank you again! 🙏🙏
What a fabulous discussion!! ❤
Dr. Principe's Great Courses lecture was one of the main items that got me interested in the history of science. I ended up buying 3 copies over time as I gave the first ones away to friends.
This is great. I’m inspired. Thank for a great and informative interview.
excellent questions and powerful answers. what a great talk. thank you both!!
That was a fascinating chat, thank you! Now I have a bunch of new books to add to my library :)
Awesome interview. Amazing that the forensic work helped inform the translation work.
So much information has been added to this space since I studied this material. Thank you for all your work. Cheers.
A true gift. I read, "The Secrets of Alchemy," last year at the start of 2023. For the first 7 days of the year, I read one chapter per day--7 chapters, 7 days. It was a great way to start the year. I was originally directed to his work by my teachers at Spagyricus School of Alchemy. They encouraged me to look in the bibliography to find references on alchemical texts for fiber dyeing. As a fiber artist, I am interested in pursuing this area of study for application in my artwork. I also believe that having knowledge of how to create a good dye also feeds into knowing how plants and minerals work together and react and can ultimately feed into the creation of better medicine.
I feel allis worth it and better after watching thank you !! so much Justin !!
As an inorganic-cum-polymer chemist who has always had an interest in historical, philosophical, and religious topics (I come from a deeply, but progressive and pragmatically Catholic family, and both my father and maternal grandfather were history teachers), I'm always happy to see alchemical topics given attention on the channel.
We have so many fantastic objects from antiquity and lost methods that baffle and inspire modern science.
Thank you for this episode ❤
really love all your content always interesting always in a true scolarly fashion
Awesome! I've always wondered if anyone was recreating alchemical experiments!
Thank you Prof Principe & Dr Sledge. An interesting discussion. This chemical engineer (with 2 semesters of History of Science, circa early 1980s) came to Esoterica because of the history of alchemy! My classes started with 'Chymistry' and went forward in time. Love learning about early alchemy, even if I'm not trying to find The Philosopher's Stone. Had never heard of the so-called 'spiritual alchemy' until I started listening to Esoterica.
Thanks!
Great talk! Principe's scholarship was beyond eye opening. After wading through what seems like an endless ocean of BS when engaging with "esotericism" it was like a light in the dark, "oh, there are people who look into this rigorously and without some bizarre agenda." Yet still, almost everyone I encounter who is interested in these subjects think Blavatsky is the height of scholarship, sigh.
Excellent interview. I have to go grab a copy of Secrets of Alchemy.
Great interview! ❤
Prof. Principe discusses contemporary practitioners of alchemy. Whom would you recommend following on RUclips or elsewhere for further exploration of this topic?
I think he's referring to the spiritual alchemy folks, Jungian, etc. I don't really follow that world so much. You could ask in the alchemy sub on Reddit but you might get some pretty looney answers.
@@TheEsotericaChannel
I am curious to know if there are contemporary practitioners engaging in historically accurate alchemical practices and showcasing their experiments on platforms such as RUclips or other media outlets? I would be eager to observe these laboratory experiments!
My buddy youtube.com/@fraserbuilds?si=pu3dfMw_O94VZ1U_
I'll be recording an experiment myself next month
Most of the serious practitioners--I'm afraid, are not (so far as I know, and so far as the ones I know) on RUclips. They work quietly even though they are tied into their own networks of fellow alchemists.
Thank you very much. I can Say that the book of prof Principe has been my light in a shadow of spiritual/jungian pletora of books I started to study alchemy from. The only bad thing: it's a pitty there's only the English version of it, such an important book needs to be translated in all languages.. I am looking forward to an Italian version (I am Italian), the same for a lot of nice French studies that are not translated even to English, that's the only foreign language I understand (and not so much sometimes). In a parallel way, some good Italian studies are not translated into other languages.. It seems to my alchemy scholars are quite divided..
Fascinating
I was wondering if you could take a few moments since you are on the subject to tell us your thoughts on the Count of Saint Germain. He was working on Alchemical processes in producing colors for jewelry and textiles. I know it may be controversial but maybe not.
Thank you Doctor Sledge
Bloomfield, NJ represent
So glad you interviewed Lawrence Principe! His work guided me down the direction that alchemy was a real thing, not just mumbo jumbo or poison drinking idiots during the middle ages.
The way Lawrence's face flips when he mentions The One Idea ahahaha
yo this is a rad convo
👌
If only I found this earlier although I probably would have gotten a similar conversation as I can’t play with electricity ⚡️
Also consider the walls of Jericho and other events may have been appropriated to validate and elevate one's tribe, beliefs and claimed divinity.
🌿 LOVE FROM MISSISSIPPI 🇮🇱♥️🇺🇲
I don't mean to come off as demanding, but it would be pretty cool to cover the Kabbalah of The Haggadah during Passover.
Hi there ive read through more modern alchemy books , and im wanting more older alchemical books , so if you can recommend a list please let me know cheers
👍👍👍👍👍
Mr. Principe,
I am very interested in your student William Newman's future analytical results. Any comments?
Doesn't the emanationist and Neoplatonic character of the Emerald Tablet suggest that interpretations through the lens of psychology and spiritualism are not only valid but congruent with the text's philosophical roots?
The text is so brief and enigmatic that I don't think any such conclusions can be actually drawn
🌞
🌜
12:18 LMAO 😂 The scientists were being scientific about it and the humanities not so much. Laughed so hard my roommate wondered why.
well, Newton and Einstein had an imagination that more scientists need in the modern world and it is one of the major factors in alchemy and or science. you cultivate the imagination that's what the pictures accomplish and you use rationalism to refine
What is the meaning of the symbol of the lion devouring the sun? My house sigil are serpents devouring the sun.
Aqua regia dissolving gold
The uncommon response, the lion is actually regurgitating the sun… according to some operatives, after all the green lion, contains our ‘natural fire’… if one were to dry distill the green lion, we would get Our Sun ⚗️🩸
I liked his explanation of "spiritual alchemy" vs materialist Alchemy, as there is no inherent contradiction, though some texts do not seem to be spiritual at all, and probably werent, many others are impossible to be sure, some are explicitly spiritual, there is a whole spectrum. Alchemy is not a religion, there is no orthodoxy or church... seems like most of the confusion is really just a matter of semantics... I always knew there problems with Jungs ideas from a historical perspective, doesnt mean I couldnt see he has a certain point.. I dont think Jung claimed to have the perfect interpretation of Alchemy either... trouble is, the history of today, is the mythology and legends of tomorrow, no one knows the past really, models are always being updated. Past models of history, like ontological models of reality, or cosmological models of nature, were and are currently very flawed, but that doesnt mean they had no truth ... I have a feeling when AI starts doing historical work and can integrate diverse fields and disciplines, we are all going to be feeling foolish about our currently primitive models
My impression is that it is by far the Jungian-interpretation of Jung that is problematic in o so many ways, rather than Jung him self. This video got me wondering what Sonu Shamdasani might have written on that particular "part" of Jungs corpus. Cause he most likely has, and I have propably read something, something of it...
And Jung certainly spured a "re-revival" of/in mythology!
@t I am not super well versed in Jungians, though I have read some Jung directly, particularly on Alchemy, but what you said makes a lot of sense. I could definitely see Jungians going bananas with this. No doubt Archetypes and ideas about universally applicable hermeneutics inspire some people to take things way too far... I think part of the problem is Dr Sledge debunks some people, who are the most extremely wrong, but can sometimes phrase things as if everyone into Spiritual Alchemy, or practices the Occult, or whatever, is that extreme... so he can come off as condescending, when not intending to... but as I said, much of this is a semantic problem for both him and viewers, everyone has their own jargon. Dr Sledge gets his from the Amsterdam school, lots of scholars have other jargon and schools, and modern practitioners have their own mish mash of diverse ways and jargon, so that we are not all talking about the same "Alchemy" ...
@@gunkwretch3697 from an/my idiosyncratic / autodidactic point of view it doesn't even seem we observe the same dart board. So there's not even a bullseye insight to miss.
That was lost on me. But it's nothing uncommon about that.
In L.U.X.
I came from Dr. Sledge's History of Alchemy video, having been a bit disappointed in hearing the psycho-spiritual interpretation had no basis in history, and I agree that the explanation given here is really enlightening. Many, many people exist with all kinds of different goals and ways of thinking. I'm sure for very many alchemists in history, it was a scientific endeavor based on entirely observable means and ends. For others, it was an exercise in spirituality, that if the material world could be manipulated and transformed, so could the metaphysical or internal world. It's just like today, where many scientists themselves are religious and see their scientific pursuits within a spiritual paradigm, while others may be atheists and have absolutely no intention of relating their studies to God or anything close to it. We take a practice that is for the most part nonexistent now and we try to fit it into a little box or give it a broad understanding (just like everything historical), but that simply isn't how the world works. Anyone could make a metaphorical interpretation of building a house (literature in general does this, making everyday concepts into symbolically meaningful devices), but at the end of the day a house is still being built. Alchemy was a legitimate practice that people took seriously, it's misguided to cover up their scientific pursuits with metaphor. As it was mentioned in the video, the artwork we always see related to alchemy typically came AFTER the texts. Leave it to artists to start putting decorative and evocative symbolism in everything - it's their job. However, just like any artwork, it's that interpretation and lens through which you view it that gives it its importance, and thus the poetry comparison Prof Principe uses.
Spiritual alchemy has been very important to me, and rather than feeling my beliefs are rendered null by this, I instead feel I've gained a lot more insight into the concept. In retrospect, it seems obvious and a little silly to think that such a practice wouldn't have actual material backing to it, being so storied and diverse in its procedure and appearing in many cultures around the globe. The process of learning is all about breaking down your knowledge and restoring it anew and improved. Oh hey! That kinda reminds me of something...
The audio is so quiet on this 🙁
Let's cook...!
I have always believes that our names points to our essence. A professor with the surname “Principe” writing about alchemy... you can’t make these things up.
Why does that green lion keep swallowing the sun? 😂😂
Gotta make that gold potable somehow
Because he can!
Inoganic and biochemistry 🎉
Solve et Coagula, Solve et Coagula...
is THAT a bottle of the water of life?
Xo
All these new religions that use alchemy as a basis have to do is maintain some intellectual honesty about their own history, and this isn't really a new issue. From a few wiccans claiming their stuff has been secretly practiced all through the middle ages (it wasn't) to some neopagans believing the druids lived in harmony with nature (not really) to the idea that the catholic church conquered peaceful pagans (early medieval pagan rituals involve ritual drowning of people) up to the recent claims that vikings had throat-singing (nope).
The post-Roman cultures have a deeply rooted idea that something being old automatically makes it cooler and more valid to do and we just can't seem to rid ourselves of both it and our need to claim to follow the venerable ancestors.
So many facets to this alchemy detective work. Very much enjoyed this discussion. Thank you!
Thanks!
Thanks for the kind donation!