What is Hermeticism - Then & Now? Conversation
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2023
- A roundtable conversation hosted by the Embassy of the Free Mind in Amsterdam moderated by Dr. Lucinda Martin, between dr. Justin Sledge of Esoterica and prof. dr. Wouter Hanegraaff on the topic Hermes and Hermeticism, Then and Today.
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I will get a shirt...THAT THOTH SHIRT, just as soooooooon as my bonus comes in!
I noted Hanegraaff's comment that you're in effect "re-constructing the Yates thesis" after his de-construction. High praise coming from him! I love his openness to the ever-evolving scholarship on this thing, this Platonic-Hermetic "tradition", this wastebasket category of ruins, this western esoterica.
The scholars say." five
senses,"
I say, Such numbers the mind hath need,
For those of the flesh but mark the stage
Of body-bondage. When the soul's free
shall it not see, hear, smell, feel, taste,
More than a dull material life may ken?
Shall it know in a flash?
Seige across globes a truth, a beauty,
As 't were on the spot. Shall it not heart all things, And thus what faculties come
Of intercourse of essence?
Oh, aye! So, you thrust yourself in sense
And tune each flesh powder finely up
To unseen reel, shall ye pass some day
all outer bounds of organ living
And discern, by royal prerogative,
In the spirit's quintessential realm,
Even on earth, the exquisite existences
Of I- Am Wonder World.
But now, an' ye would attain
Toil, till the body's the fire of mind.
Hermetica is also a metal band in Argentina
What an incredible moment. Proud to be there with you Dr. Sledge.
And without you so much would have been totally impossible there - so much love for you and your project!
Yes, congratulations Dr. Sledge. This honor is entirely deserved. I loved how the presenter called you one "of the most prominent voices" in the field of Hermetica studies. You must have felt a shiver up and down your spine when you heard those words!
And maybe you thought it was an exaggeration? No, it wasn't. You clearly are a leading figure and your work as a "divulger" (as you certainly know this comes from the Latin verb "dis - vulgare", "to make public", as in the "Vulgata",) a prestigious title that applies to those who take complex and sometimes forbidding arguments for specialists and explain them effectively and honestly to the wider public.
Thank you for your work.
I’m so glad this topic of hermetics is gaining attention
Congratulations, Dr Justin Sledge, on this edifying accomplishment that is your overall tremendous work and this pinnacle discussion of yours and Prof. Dr Wouter Hanegraaff! On Hermeticism, at the Embassy of the Free Mind!! 📖 📚 I will jocularly contend the daimones were actually working hard to deliver the sound of this wonderful dialogue! And thank you for your tireless work in delivering thoughtful rigorous esoteric content, context, and analysis with this wellspring platform that is Esoterica, fellow channels, and academic colleagues!
yet another hit from esoterica 💯
Thank you, thank you, Sir, as always. 👍
I’m from the Netherlands (East Netherlands) and didn’t know we had such a thing as the Bibliotheca in our country, now visiting is on my to-do list for the near future 👍 I’ve been fascinated by Hermetica, Kabbalah and Religions (similarities and differences) since I experienced an altered state of mind after my father passed away 7 years ago, but never knew where to start looking to learn more.
I’ve been following your channel for a little while now, and I want to thank you as your videos have also been very informative and helpful in understanding what I experienced.
Groetjes, Mike!
Met Mike, hier [wij hebben het zelfde naam], en prettig met je kennis te makken. Ik ben Amerikaans, maar ik heb in Nederland gewoond [Harderwijk, 1993-97]. Toen had ik een pannenkoeken huisje met mijn vriendje, Inge. Helaas, wij hebben onze relatie afgebrokken, daarom ben ik weer thuis gekommen.
Ik vind het echt interresant om jouw verlies van je vader en de volgende "altered state of mind" dat kwam bij elkaar. Waarom? Ik had ook het zelde soort experience met mijn moeder [weg gepassed op May 6, 2023].
Paardon voor mijn slechte Nederlandse om te shrijven...het is well een tidje geladen dat ik heb youw tal gesprokken.
@@user-hi2nt1xt2l I do love how the dutch slowely gets moor wors aftèr a litl wile
@@user-hi2nt1xt2l
hey Mike,
I don’t know what actually happened that triggered this altered state of mind. When my father passed away I held is hand as and felt his last heartbeat as I was monitoring it. During this I had an experience of feeling something going through me.
For me the altered state started about a week later with an experience that some people define as sleep paralysis (I never experienced it before or after again) while laying in bed. During it I felt like a “black hole” started to form underneath me, then a ghostly hand entered my chest (from the back) and grabbed my heart, trying to pull it/something within it out of me. When I felt something disconnect I blacked out. After this I experienced what doctors described as a state of psychosis, hearing voices, feeling being touched, seeing entities form in front of me. I’ve been in that state for about six months, it’s was horrible as well as fascinating at the same time. Looking back at it it felt like a test of the mind coming from within, a “dark night of the soul” kind of experience..
Going back to the start, looking at it from my point of view, being raised a Roman Catholic, it felt like an “angel of death” visited to “collect” my fathers “soul” that still resided within me after I held him as he passed..
Same, en ik woon in amsterdam 😮
It is so refreshing to hear this man talk. I thought that academia was light years behind practicing magic. Most scholars concentrate on safe and facts. Few talk about the light the connection with ourselves and our higher selves. ❤❤❤. Thanks for this.
Dr. Sledge. Sir. You are a great man. Your contributed articulations of deep history, and character are worthy of some form of eternal recognition. Consider this stranger your friend. Thank you.
Ordered the book. Thanks! I let them know I came from your video Dr Sledge. 💙
I'm glad that this channel has gained so many new viewers in such a short time.
Wow, so cool to see you able to have this discussion! Some giants of the field. Thanks!
Excellent. I didn't know they had such presentations at the Ritman Library (aka Bibliotheca Philosophica Hermetica). Dr. Sledge is definitely in his element!
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I visited The EFM in July, and was moved to tears. Really enjoyed this round table event, thank you so much.
1:31 You did this same thing for me back in the beginning of esoterica and sent me on my current academic trajectory. You took that which was granted to you and passed it on to others which is amazing. I want to do that myself one day since I’m still grateful for the rewards I’m reaping because of it! Glad to see your efforts pay out and the channel thrive and prosper.
I am endlessly grateful for the education you are providing me 🙏
Sincerely, thank you, Dr. Sledge
💜
It's so great that you got to be a part of this and be recognized. Your scholarship about the bundling of the books opened my eyes about this, since it's not so much a modern practice except in fiction anthologies now. I can see where just being bundled with another text could pre-color one's view of their readings of each individual text. Yes, my area is psychology, in case you were wondering how I came into this.
My favourite RUclips channel
coincidentally, just started reading a Kybalion... got the distinct feeling that the brain is the philosopher's stone? transmuting metals (heavy, earthly, shadowy thoughts or/and feelings) into gold (light= positive, altruistic, compassionate thought and/or feelings)
Reading Thunder perfect Mind blew my mind, thank you for that recommendation!
Wish I could do more for Esoterica, dr, it's amazing to have this on youtube.
Best wishes ✨
The kybalion is BS though
The Kybalion is NOT Hermeticism
@@Dialogos69can you briefly spill the tea for me. I'm new to it🙏
@@Dialogos69 why?
Why?@@Dialogos69
... and the perfect synchronicity of this video with the enrollment this evening into my PhD course where I use Hermes / the Magician as an archetypal lens to explore prehistoric art. Thank you, dr. Sledge, you now seem to be a constant presence in my postgrad experiences
Just curious what job you get after schooling that focuses on things like this? Real question.
@@MissMarie1377 well, I have to admit that I am a mature student and have been practicing as an eclectic psychotherapist for many years now. So, what I am studying now will def lead me to more research and then staying within the academia, while integrating this knowledge in my analytical practice where I already use a Jungian approach of archetypes and "alchemical individuation". and use tools such as the Medicine Wheel. The art / drawing side comes from my BA and MRes in FA and the idea that palaeo art "mimics" evolutionary stages [i.e. from the Fool to the Magician]. Hope this wasn't too long and that answers your question. MGT
I secretly smile when I see your notification pop up ...thank you.
secret smile squad
😎
I smile openly, in secret...
Great discussion! Keep up the awesome job, Dr Sledge 👏⚒️
23:48 What the Hermetica is really about: contrary to common belief, it is not about escaping the material world, but about its transformation.
(How valid is creative interpretation as a process of re-discovery? To be meaningful (or stay meaningful, or become meaningful again) all tradition has to make contact to the current reality. Since history goes forward in a spiraling motion, and is not a circular motion that repeats exactly, at best it rhymes. Thus discovering the original meaning in the original context (literary criticism) is only helpful in the first step. We still have to make it rhyme afterwards with the currents and undercurrents of our own reality. In order not to feel lost and alone, we have to constantly establish and recreate connections to the past and our fellow humans, and to build towards the future aiming high. If we only aim for the possible, and the continuation of the past, we will regress (and regret). We need to aim high, towards the ideal, towards the impossible, so we can end up with the possible, with progress, and not end up with regress and regret.
P.S.: I’ve been watching Jonathan Pageau speaking / listening to Richard Rohlin lately (“Universal History”-playlist), and yesterday a clip of Victor Frankl, and it lead me to making this comment the way I did. And also to the following ideas:
I think, that how we understand history really shows the difference between Protestants vs Catholics vs Orthodox.
- Protestants be like: God only has our hands; if we don’t advance the Kingdom of God, it won’t come. We are the chosen ones. Failure is not an option.
- Catholics be like: This is hubris. We are Sinners and can only fail, when we try to deliver the Kingdom of God. Our failing exists for God to come forth to show his great mercy and glory. Our own failure is guaranteed, God will rectify this at the end of days.
- Orthodox be like: Don’t bother: The Kingdom of God is well underway. Discovering how we partake in it, is all we need to do and even all we ever can do.
As an Atheist, I used to be allergic to “channeling the light” and seeing the hand of God in human history, but as I progress, I welcome all interesting vantage points and like taking them not as my own, but just to try out and to see the world from different angles. I even started doing “creative interpretation” of traditions and legends and myths from my own point of interest - from the view of modern Catastrophism in search for our lost human history / a lost civilization: and it’s been great fun to speculate and create my own theories.
I used to think, that I was an atheist, because I wasn’t interested in believing unbelievable things: but then I noticed my interests in all kinds of conspiracy theories and UFOs and Lost Civilizations. I believe more BS now, than I ever did as a Christian. And it is a lot of fun. The pendulum might swing back soon, and I might become ultra conservative in my old age, and regret all the time wasted in exploration, and wished I had settled down on a closed world view. But it’s not time yet.)
55:09 our state of consciousness limits the currently available knowledge we can obtain at that moment; no state encompasses all the knowledge alone
1:03:20 the loving and giving and living world creating function at the base layer of our consciousness.
I think that ties in pretty well with what Joscha Bach describes: we don’t have access to the physical world, we only have access to our own simulation/ model of the world in our mind; and every now and then it activates the learning and attention circuit, when it stumbles upon a difference between the underlying mechanics of the world that was badly represented in the information condensed model and therefore every now and then our model needs adjusting, and the wake / attention / learning layer gets called up to amend / fix our continuously running world model.
Although I think, that it is an ontological mistake, when we falsely interpret the integrated-world-model creating layer of our own mind as God, or the source of the outer universe / the physical universe. To say that our own little glint of light within us is capable of recognizing or even echoing the real base layer of physics (- “the one big, only light”), just because it is literally emergent on its substrate, ignores the structural differences at the different size and organizational layers of the Universe. Our own mind came into being literally as a side-effect of the regulation needs of a monkey / the hairless ape(- to stay in the parlance of Joscha Bach). - The regulation needs of the Universe, or the Earth / Gaia, or 5he Bacteria in our Gut biome are vastly different. - This doesn’t deny the fact, that all Turing machines can emulate each other. - Well: maybe the light recognizes the light: that’s probably our only hope, once AGI takes over…
Dude...this is monumentous
Got a little offended when you were introduced as Justin Sledge without the Dr. (not that youtuber isn't a perfectly legitimate occupation)
Looking forward to listening to this all :D
Great presentation. Modern practitioner's are lucky to have y'all.
I was about to watch a different upload of yours when this popped up - talk about auspicious timing~
Oh hell yes, Dr. Sledge!! Slaaaaaaaay!!
Great Talk Justin. From the guy of Venezuela ;D, And yes its more complicated than that. The substance is just a key, the door is bigger and richer, the temple is beyond any key and any door.
Wow, this was amazing!
Aah man, I wasn't able to make it to the event but I have to visit this place at some point.
Thanks for including the introductory talk by Professor Hanegraaf. I was personally struggling with the ideas of matter being created and emanating from God, and also of matter being a prison for human divine souls, as both concepts are deeply expressed in the Corpus Hermeticum. Professor Hanegraaf's talk really helped me see how these two concepts don't actually contradict each other.
I love to hear about your passion.
I find the subject completely fascinating.
Thank you for the work you have put in and the gift of your RUclips channel.
1: 40 video from the Rabbi of black metal on a Tuesday...... excellent.
THIS. Great dialogue and understanding of the Hermetica philosophy. I It is not for me to convince others of my knowledge, connections, intention, beauty and strength. It is for me to live in it.🪷Can’t convince those who are not in the same field or calibre. I will live in beauty and observe with authenticity🔱Ancient teachers weren’t worried about having followers.They just were. Those, who wanted to understand, will and also support. Translation is never the way to truly understand. If you are lucky enough, go to the source, I suggest being curious without prejudice. Have some food, some wine and a conversation ♾️ Shine On!🙌🏽✨🙌🏽
Thank you very much for sharing this.
amsterdam tourism just got better. Visiting this Biblioteca is now added to my bucket list.
I'm late again. it's always nice to see and meet your heros like Dr. Cucinda Martin and Prof.dr.wouter hanegraaff just like you as my mentor. people don't realize how much hermeticism has influenced society since the beginning of time even to this day and beyond. it's so interesting to know there are people who can see past the world we live in now. all they see is the now not how we as a society have evolved because of the truths of hermeticism and the mistical arts of philosophy and magic. love the show Justin Sledge keep up the good work. hopefully someone will see the world for what it really is and how there beliefs are based on the hidden secrets you share with us. I am the keeper of secrets. {q}
Dr. Sledge thank you so much for your scholarship, your enthusiasm and your generosity in making the examination of the esoteric sciences available in such a detailed and objective manner. As is the subject matter, your discussions can be dense especially to the newcomer, narrowly read or the uninitiated, but I always find myself exposed to authors, ideas and historical figures that are new and interesting to me. Kudos on your dedication. May your work reach those eyes and ears most receptive and in need towards the betterment of mankind. Peace and blessings.
Just subscribed to The Embassy of the Mind. Appreciate the recommendation, it's one of my favorite things about your channel. I'm always finding new avenues to explore based on your discussions here.
Thank you. I just ordered the book that you’ve recommended: Christ, Plato, Hermes. Trismegistus. 🙏🙏🙏
I have returned over years to a more rational state.... At one difficult point I broke-down in the street upon witnessing an act of kindness... i get what is being stated by Hannegraaf around 58:00 about nous ([k]nowse in northern english?) and relative states of perception... returning to a similar state without a pathology would seem to require psychedelics.. thanks for great event
Lavish. Profound. Transcending borders and limits) Truly enjoyed this one. Many thanks and a rampage of appreciation here)
"rampage of appreciation" - nice turn of phrase!
@@TheEsotericaChannel 😊💝
Fascinating stuff, even more determined now to try and afford to stock up on decent books of philosophy, magic, hermeticism etc al. It's hard to know where to start however, the only classics I actually own are the Hermetica, Plato's Republic, and Last Days of Socrates. And the Goetia 😅 unless you count the Prince and a pile of random books about various mythological pantheons
Great video. I’m going to watch this more than once for sure. Thank you
Subscribed to the embassy Doc. Thanks.
Such an amazing book for such a low price compared to some of the brill books in my personal library. A great holiday gift for myself. Also, thanks for bringing this content to us. It's humbling to be a part of this discourse and I'm happy that you got to meet one of your heroes. I'd feel the same if I ever run into you in my wanderings.
Hermetica is one of the most important argentinian metal bands
I had my copies of the Plato, Christ Hermes turn up this week. They are amazing, and smell amazing too!!!
This is a fascinating discussion. I’ll be sure to follow Embassy of the Free Mind.
Looking forward to more!
I watch the original on the Embassy Of The Free Mind channel. Excellent discussion.
I love this!
How exciting, thank you!
Great talk! Congrats!!👏🏻
Being a neo-hermeticist, I appreciate your admiration for our journey to explore and discover the mysteries of spirituality and the mechanics of the universe through the prism of our own research and experience. I have come to some pretty profound understandings in my time which started in my teen years. Would you be interested in reading an interpretation/commentary of text if I were to share?
Wow ! This is profound ! Thank you.
İt was a very perfect and very inspiring day. Thank u.
Great discussion. Thanks😊
This episode is in a word a triumph 😊.
Thank you for sharing this! Very very helpful! The whole presentation!
Thanks, Doc! This is Great!
Perfect! My copy of Copenhaver's Hermetica just arrived. (Per your recommendation, of course.) This is awesome timing! Thank you, Dr. Sledge!
Next read Dr. Litwa's Hermetica 2
Love ,love, love You!!!
Congratulations, my Brother! I love this for you!
This is such a succinct explanation for a question that has nagged at me for some time. Thank you!
Yes!! I’ve been waiting for this to drop since, I don’t know, when were you in Amsterdam again, half a year ago?
Can’t wait to hear it!
Congrat. Dr. Sledge one more time.
Interested what Prof. Hanegraaff told about Lazzarelli's Corpus Hermeticum transl.
Some more hints on that topic needed.
Your help would be more than welcome....
Dr. Sledge, indeed; great job!!!
Amazing episode. Thank you so much for sharing this and making this kinda of high quality scholarship available and accesable ❤
I’m so happy to have come across this video, listening to this at work is exactly what I need to keep my mind active
Thank you all for this wisdom with reverence for revealing sources to all those who who have a quest for things one might not have read or known or experienced.
🙏❤️🌍🌿🕊🎵🎶
I’ve only just come across your page in the last few weeks but it’s already one of my favorite channels. The love you have for the subject is very evident and I always appreciate a non-biased scholarly approach to such deep topics.
I’m super happy for you that you reached a life goal and I can’t wait to see more from this event!
So wonderful! Wowee.
Thank you for sharing, and especially sharing your joy! Your work has been very impactful for me & has been a great resource when I share the subjects with others ❤
Congratulations to you on your continuing work from a fellow Michigander... 👏
Great stuff ,i loved how he said basicly we wont know until we go,look study but dont come to an conclusion because we truly dont know that world yet,thanks for the video
Evolution of the ad fontes and how changes influenced readers' perceptions.
Elegant presentation! Thank you!
❤ Thank you
I think you'll have much more success in the future. Respect and love bud.
Wonderful! Congrats! You have been a leader for me in the study of esoterica and hermeticism, two things that have given my life great meaning.
Excellent conversation and pleased to see that you didn't pass out!
Bravo! That was a menagerie of badassery. I had watched a video on the James Web telescope changing our concept of time and then a video on the 11 dimension model .In this description of the 11 dimensions it discussed how the object wasn't to travel to the higher dimension but to make contact with it in order to transform our 3rd dimensional reality. Your discussion has transformed a few things relating to all these subjects for me. THANK YOU!
Hello Justin,
Showing what other texts the Corpus Hermeticum was published together with in its various editions is an astute and conclusive approach to shine some further light on the philosophical/scientific/occult landscape the latter was perceived as being part of. This indeed lends support to Frances A. Yates' views who (despite modern attempts at "debunking" her) was right in almost every respect.
Furthermore, in my opinion, underlying the presentation of these magical, demonological, Platonic, Pythagorean, and related writings along with the Hermetic ones was a valid perception that the ideas presented in all these texts are actually compatible with and complementing each other. That is, in their essence, and if looked at on profound enough a level--regardless of individual authors' particular angles, emphases, and other variations.
I am aware that a lot of contemporary academics may not agree with this syncretic type of view, however, many esotericists would--both now and back then. And of course, it was the latter faction that the aforementioned publishers and their audience came from.
Talking about Prof. Haanegraf's presentation, one thing I liked was the emphasis it laid on Lodovico Lazzarelli's still little recognised contribution to the unfolding of Hermetism in the Renaissance and subsequent times. Also the important insight that the aim of the Hermetic practitioner (magus, alchemist...) was and is to guide the spiritual light into the physical world.
Keep up the good work! :)
Michael
Thank you
Approved by Poimandres.
This was excellent! Thanks a lot. Justin, in this unscripted format your presentation comes so much more alive and yourself more authentic than in the scripted format. I like your other videos, too. But I like this one much better. Maybe there could be a middle ground between scripted and unscripted? Thanks again for your work. You’re the man!
Excellent!
Thanks!
Been expecting this meet for a long time Doc, I hope you can bring him to the channel for an interview along side our guy @The Modern Hermeticist
Completely unrelated to the video, but I would be very interested in your take on the philosophy of Philipp Mainlander. In particular, his concept of the will to death and his interpretation of Christianity. His deus absconditus-like conception of God and creation is very unique and very gnostic imo.
Thank you for all you do! Channels like yours are what I hoped for as a kid trolling through occult and esoteric forums in the 90s and early 2000s.
Wow, this is just great, very thoughtful conversation
Congrats Dr. Sledge, it is always heartwarming to see someone achieving their goals and even better to share one's accomplishments.
Thank you very much for this video and for all your work. Muchísimas Gracias
Congratulations on your accomplishment. For me this channel represents that same sort of thing, taking a complex subject and communicating it a wide audience, while also adding a depth to our own reality. Love your work, it's been inspirational in my pursuit of a philosophy / religious studies degree. As you allude to in your talk, the dogma leaves a lot out of the story.
Luvly! Thanx! 🙂
Theres was a very popular heavy metal Band here in Argentina🇦🇷 called "Hermética". The name was taken by this philosophical/religious tradition.
You volunteer a word I have never needed to use before, talking of defining it as if it is a given I would have any need to have it defined.
Thank You. I have followed Joost Ritman for many many years. I know the history of his library.
I have a few books from their library. Incunabula (I own 3 fragments) is a passion of mine. Economic determinism depleted my library alas; I had to pay property tax. Never will I ever be able to visit there alas. Thank you for fulfilling a dream of mine if only, for me, vicariously.
A great scholar with great vídeos with the name of a wrestler.
In Hanagraaf's presentation I notice a tension (which isn't to say an error) between the idea that reality is a pure, non-dual light and his thesis that the hermetic magician strives to channel that light into this world. The latter implies that darkness and perhaps a substantial amount of it exists here, and that the magician also receives a moral mandate, not just a noetic infusion from the light. The oldschool view on hermeticism as I understand it is that darkness--light mapped to ignorance--knowledge, yet Hanegraaf makes the magician's path out as one of brotherly love. Maybe that sounds uncontroversial, but I both agree with Hanegraaf that it really is different from how gnostic hermeticism has often been presented, and also feel that to a great extent it retreads basics from the Abrahamic faiths, and moreover feel that those faiths have a better-developed conceptual vocabulary around that light, darkness, and right action.
Dam ,doc, real fine show;:;