Town of Salem 2 NEW All Roles Tier List
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Town of Salem 2 - All Roles Tier List
More Daily Videos ► / pipetron
WATCH ME LIVE ► / pipetr0n
Discord Link: / discord
Town of Salem 2 has different factions in it.
The Coven: The Dreamweaver, Enchanter, Illusionist, Medusa, Conjuror, Jinx, Ritualist, Coven Leader, Hex Master, Witch, Necromancer, Poisoner, Potion Master, Voodoo Master and Wildling
The Town: Coroner, Investigator, Lookout, Psychic, Seer, Sheriff, Spy, Tracker, Deputy, Trickster, Veteran, Vigilante, Jailor, Mayor, Monarch, Prosecutor, Bodyguard, Cleric, Crusader, Trapper, Admirer and Amnesiac
The Neutral Apocalypse: Baker, Famine, Berserker, War, Plaguebearer, Pestilence, Soul Collector and Death
Neutral Evil: Executioner, Jester, Doomsayer, Pirate
Neutral Killing: Arsonist, Serial Killer, Shroud and Werewolf
Ideal coven lineup
CL, Rit, Witch, Conj = CL, Rit, PM, Conj
My ideal coven lineup is cl rit (pm/witch) hex
when will you stop splitting transforming roles it makes 0 sense as you are rating half a role not the actual role,
on the best coven id go CL, rit, hex, necro, to me necro seems much better than pm/witch since he can kill without necronomicon very often while pm straight up cant and witch is usually trickier than necro, abd the alternate win conidtion of hex is very much worth having imo
Pm reveal and ritualistic is op.
I agree it makes no sense to rank them ws their own roles
Ritualist*
A nice buff for Vigi would be to make their last bullet a powerful attack - like a “a silver bullet”. It makes successful vigis more powerful in the endgame
Oh that's do sound really cool!
I like that. Or maybe upon getting a successful kill on a Non-townie, their remaining 2 attacks are powerful
I wonder how viable it'd be if the vigi made their next shot a powerful attack if they shoot someone who doesn't die. Say, for example, you shoot an immune role, they don't die, the vigi then loads a powerful bullet the next night if they shoot the same target to ensure they die. If they decide on someone else or if said target dies, it'd be a normal bullet anyways.
This is really good idea.
What about an option to use all 3 bullets at once to do powerful instead
Some thoughts on how to make Coroner and Amne more fun and impactful.
Coroner: First of all I'd make Coroner able to find real roles of people. When you autopsy a dead player, you can find the role and will of those turned to stone, as well as the real role and will of those altered by an enchanter.
Amne: Make it neutral again, however make it keep the random element. On night 2, into Day 3 you will remember a random role among those in the graveyard. No alert will be given when an amne remembers. This could let you be a replacement NA, a 5th coven if one days, a replacement town power, or even an NK, jest, or exe. It avoids the kingmaker scenario as you will always transform on a specific night, and you don't choose who you become. This could also help extend games and give a faction some comeback power.
maybe have a random chance to do nothing (Like if you have three dead on N2 then you have a 20% chance to become each role and 20% to do nothing, then you won't become those roles) that way there can be an an=mne later in the game when the confirmed roles die, more fun than the one person who dies n1 is what the amne becomes.
@@TheOmegaXicor i can imagine that one-in-a-million game where amne remembers death and nukes town from nowhere. of course it would be way too unlikely to balance the game off that, but it would be funny if it happens
@@Underworlder5 "phew we are safe from the apocalypse now we can hunt for..." "The Amnesiac has transformed into Death, Horseman of the Apocalypse! Woe be upon the Town!" "oh no..." 😂
I think one way Coroner could be changed would be to have the Coroner detect effects on players that they autopsy (similar to a spy's bug, but for dead players with information revealed at the start of the night). So it could be able to detect players who were enchanted, role blocked, doused, hexed, had their soul collected, etc. And then it could reveal any ways the checked player affected the corpse.
@@jasonsmith1950 I don't think that would help too much, but it would be an interesting improvement. It would make it more useful but I don't know if it would be more fun.
Dreamweaver+jinx is a decent combo
Plus Amnesiac needs a rework the role is basically you a town role but get your abilities later in the game.
Witch + junx is better probably
@@Nemchick I dont think so with DW-Jinx you almost always have a good outcome but with Witch-Jinx , witch could still control a non visiting/NK but either combos can be good.
Bodyguard is one of my favorite roles, low pressure role and I'm less likely to be in an end game situation where I need to try and pick between the last evil and the last town. Overall just a nice stress free role.
Yeah i like BG too.
It's a really nice feeling when you manage to kill somebody, even if you end up losing.
granted I think Pipe is doing this tier list from the perspective of an "all any " role list, and BG is significantly weaker there.
Still a overall chill role to play.
@@MegaHuntress true. if you die protecting someone as bodyguard, you feel you did your job, especially if you killed an important role like coven leader. bodyguard is also far less likely to backfire than crusader since you only kill attackers instead of all visitors (though it CAN still backfire if you end up protecting another dangerous evil like arsonist or a horseman)
I think If the Deputy gets the correct shot, they should become a Sheriff. The town will still see them as Deputy but the Deputy can investigate at night. This will give the Deputy something to do after they have shot and can still be helpful to town. Also, come on, it makes sense. A Deputy being promoted to Sheriff. It will be like the VH from ToS1 becoming a Vigilante after the Vampires are gone.
punting jester/exe and getting a role off of it a la 'promotion' would be a bit odd as they're not really existential threats like proper nk's/coven/na's are
maybe a deputy who's shot evil can grant someone a one-off vigi attack for the next night, to take a minor page out of tpow's like monarch as it is a slightly odd inbetween but unlike its purple contemporary doesn't eventually turn into a direct attacker beyond its one attack.. in a way think would be preferable if it wasn't an autoconfirm role, as it (barring a change) has literally nothing persistently going for it at that point, unlike mayor which has the votes and prosecutor who defies voting itself
The veteran’s lower kill rate is because of the higher proportion of astral visiting roles in TOS2
also, they can be roleblocked now, meaning poisoner hard counters them. finally, as another comment pointed out, there are not as many conflicting evils, so veteran is less likely to be visited by multiple evils in the same night
Definite nerf.
@@Underworlder5 a veteran being able to be roleblocked is actually dumb. if my paranoid ass was on alert to shoot anyone i saw i dont think i'd hold off on shooting the local tavern keeper wanting to get me blackout drunk.
@@LazoGTthe veteran is a canonical alcoholic I guess
I believe that hexed people showing up inno is actually a buff, as it hides the fact that there's a HM in the game, and draws less attention to hexed people
I feel like the reason War isn’t as scary as the other NApoc is because you always know if a war is coming, but the other horsemen are way harder to know if they exist
You know coroner might be better if it worked more like the psychic. Autopsy a body at night and you get 3 suspects one of whom is the killer. Cant hit the same corpse multiple times to narrow it down but if you hit the coven target 2 consecutive nights theres a good chance to find who has the book.
too op , you literally find the book holder after 2 days ?
@@hayato.32 yeah
Pipe you forgot to mention that hex master’s hex bomb can kill invincible defense like NA
Also that necro can cause hex bomb to go off by raising them
It could be interesting if Doomsayer unlocks the ability to doom TIs after a certain amount of time or condition is met. Maybe that might be too much but idk. Just a thought
Suggested balances
Vet
Alerting and killing a non town role will give another charge (max 1 per night)
Or
Veterans can mimic neutral killing styles so during day phase their death will seem to be due to that NK instead of a veteran allowing the vet to survive without any coven or NAs immediately knowing their teammate visited a veteran
Coroner
3 charges: can watch a target, if the target dies the coroner will get the killers name and role. Also if anyone tries to destroy last wills or change the victims role they will be seen by the coroner as someone tampering with evidence
Trickster
Roleblocks target and informs trickster they tried to kill them, now they have to convince town
war
During day war can choose two players, at start of night they will have both players play Rock Paper Scissors, loser dies and draws count as loss for both
Or
all players have +1 offense
Arso
Dousing another arso will inform both the other is an arso and won’t douse them.
Pros
Can choose to drop their case and let the victim go
Bg
Targets know if they are guarded regardless of bg dying
An interesting way to change coroner might be to let it choose as many people to check at night as they want, but not tell them which of the people they checked is the killer. It could narrow down small groups like psychic or confirm groups as not a certain killer
I had the same idea! I think its a cool change. It can make coroner go from trying to find the killer to confirming non-killers. Would probably be very strong against NK/NA compared to Coven. You could check half the game and let people know they are not NK/NA. Maybe it needs a cap (like maximum of 3 people you can check at once).
Unfortunately the wills would probably really confusing to read/write
Voodoo + Dreamweaver is a good combo
Conj + Hex is good since Conj could blast the final unhexed person as needed
Conj in general is useful for securing the early, mid, or late game
Witch would be nice for information gathering, as would Wilding
I think my ideal team would probably be:
Wilding, Voodoo Master, Dreamweaver, and Ritualist
Or maybe Conj, Voodoo, Dreamweaver, and Hex
I feel like a good exi play is doing the admirer strat telling someone confirmed that that you are going to hook up with your exe target than go silent. XD
take a shot every time pipe says "whose kidding who"
the way i'd rework coroner to be a better TI would be to when the coronor investigates a body, if there was multiple people that visited the dead the night they die, when the coroner autopsies the body, they will see everyone that visited when the body died.
However, IF there is only a "killer" that visited the body the night it died it would instead give you a phychic evil vision like result, where one of the 3 people are the murderer of the body (so they cant just FIND a evil without much effort)
Definitions:
Killer: A anyone that directly caused the death of the person by visiting them/was visited by them for example, the shrouded player will show up as the killer instead of the shroud itself, the veteran that killed them, CL that killed them
Visiting: Normal
they'd visit the graveyard at night when they do this
EDGE CASES
IF the body was taken by a retri or necro the investigating would fail and tell you the body was taken.
IF the body has been tapered by a retry or necro youd instead see that the body has been re-animated before
IF no one visited the body the night it died (disconnecting, scurvy, arso, famine, etc.) you'd get no traces
IF the person died by 2 different people, and ONLY those people, youll get the 3 potential killers BUT 2 of them are killers this time
IF 3 or more people kill the person, the coroner's autopsy will fail and say that the body was too mutilated to find any clues (balancing)
How do you guys think this balances the role? too op? still bad? i'd like to know :)
Trickster idea: literally turn it into TOS 1 transporter but add some Town Killing twists.
You can switch the places of two town members, including yourself, also switching what happens to them during the night. They will be notified of being tricked (transported). This ability has unlimited uses.
The first town member you select to trick is the town member you visit that night.
If you trick yourself to someone else, you will gain basic defense for that night. This ability can only be used 2 times per game.
If you trick an evil killing role into yourself, you will deal a powerful attack to them but only if they directly attack you.
If they don’t directly attack you, your attack will be a basic attack.
You will be notified what attack you used if you trick yourself.
18:59 tried to Maylord a game recently, it's tough as hell reading all those whispers lmao. We won tho (had Mon and Jailor and we all lived lmao) but ngl I don't think I helped, so Maylord rlly needs a skilled af player. But also with Pros and Dep, you can't make all those roles not be whisperable once they pop out.
Executioner can still turn into a potato by locking in a confirmed town but it's a lot better than Doomsayer. At least you get the option to figure out other evils and use a majority to push that person.
A fun change for pirate would make them leave when there is like 5 or less people( not including the pirate themselves ) left in the town
I would honestly disagree with Famine being in S+. A solo Famine with 3 other people left after starvation starts is most likely going to get voted out one way or another unless the remaining 3 are particularly gullible. A Famine paired up with a Berserker, then they are fine, but alone, I don't think Famine is good enough for S+, not to mention the little RNG involved in making sure you dont somehow give Bread to all the Coven or any other role who can insta confirm themselves
I wish that illusionist could choose to instead visit non-coven and act like a hypnotist, especially when there is a spy getting work done.
Seer shouldn't be able to choose who they intuit (it already implies you aren't directly scrutinizing them). Intuit target should be the last person they gazed. On the first night they get to choose but thats it.
Good tier list. I love the jak and daxter music.
Voodoo also works really well with Enchanter
Yeah a great tactic is to silence someone then kill them the next night, alternate them as an admirer and put a fake admirer will accusing someone
I think veteran feels weaker because yeah being a confirmed vet isn't always great with ritualist and doomsayer. Also coven roles have a lot of astral attacks which can't be countered by vet.
I think coroner would be better if it could investigate multiple roles Eg. (6,3,7) are not the killer or (6,3,7) one is the killer.
Bodyguard is also bad cause there's the bodyguard syndrome where evil will claim bg a lot...
Whenever I vest as jest im always killed by a WW
Another potential fix for Doom, albeit not a very good fix, is to make it work like the baker, and have you automatically killed when it's impossible to win.
Pretty easy to add a death quote too. "They angered the Old Ones" or something like that.
Idk personally I think Jester transformation is better but if there's no way to win anymore they should at least kill you so you can jump into a new game faster and avoid potential kingsmaker scenarios for that matter too.
Doomsayer already died when there are less than 3 people alive, the problem with your solution is that if doom dies when there are, say 4 people, it would confirm at least 2 people as Town Investigative. Might be problematic for evils as they're already at a disadvantage. (Although they have maj in this example but you get it)
@NoNamedTerror yeah that's a really fair point and I agree with you but there's still the problem of the Kingsmaker dilemma in that instance if the Doom lives.
Idk I didn't think this was a good fix, but I want some kinda fix rather than just nothing tbh.
WAIT WAHT doom used to be able to guess TIs? That's so broken
Hard disagree on Trickster, it's an incredibly fun aggro bodyguard style of role that lets you protect town and remove evils, and tricks are limited so you can't just blindfire constantly
I agree, trickster is fun but I also think trickster is agonizing to die to but it doesn't happen that often.
i would love is doom swaped into a jest. but then again i faked claimed jest as a Doomsays n order to get coven to come out to me before the next bomb went off. they believed me since there was a 2nd doom already dead and a dep was out cause rit was dead. so i got the dep and 2 coven who where left ironically stopping the hex bomb that was about to go off leaving just the lookout alone in town
What does baker do
Vet feels weaker because there are more better roles now. In ts1 You had more roles below vet. Now you have more above vet.
i am literally the second person to notice this. keep up the good work!
first comment btw
@@Potato15461no your not
Hi
Nice! 🔥🔥🔥
deputy not in s+....
How can amne be town when looking at the flavour of the role. Amne doesn’t know who or what it is, so how does it know it’s supposed to be a town role?
If they want to buff war I had a fun idea:
When war comes to the town; all non-apocalypse roles loses their regular abilities; and instead gains a powerful attack at night; and apocalypses gain powerful defense; to both allow the NA’s a chance to push ahead; and also serve as a potential distraction for War.
I love the idea of War's appearance encouraging town and coven to start slaughtering each other at night.
Oh god that feels really chaotic, but i think too much, like the idea but instead make that happened only 1 day and night, so the day war comes to town all abilities get disable that day so no pros or conjurer and during that night the same and they get the attack but only during that night.
I think basic attack would be enough as most people with Basic defense are lets call thrm "Warriors" already in War's eyes. Or perhaps give everyone +1 attack.
It would just be nice for other NAs to survive. Or perhaps allow BG and Jest to use vests on those nights. It would just act like a discount famine.
That feels like a whole another role, like Conquest.
@@MrCreepdayConquest, believe it or not, is the other name for Pestilence.
Yo if you do a tier list in the future, I’d recommend combining the NA “half-roles” together just bc you don’t get Death as a role. The strength of the half role is affected by how good their transformation is and is an important factor in how fun the role is to play!
they are different roles with different abilities. that's like putting all the town roles on the same tier as amne because amne BECOMES any town role
logic 0
@@cryabovtit I’d consider a tier list represent the appeal/strength of the role that you receive at the beginning of the game. If i get soul collector at the beginning I’m not like “shoot i got an F tier role” because i know if i get to death i will likely win
@@cryabovtit That's not even remotely the same thing. The apocalypse roles and their transformations are inherently tied to each other. You can't play those transformations without playing as the untransformed version first, and the whole point of the apocalypse roles is to become a specific transformed version. You can play town roles without ever having been amne, and amne is not tied to any specific town role.
@@cryabovtit With that kind of backwards logic arso should be split into two ranks because dousing and igniting aren't the same ability. It makes no sense to split transforming roles up. Pest infects people for a reward. Arso douses people for a reward. Because one is classified as a 'transforming' role its got two different rankings? What if arso turned into a different role called 'Fire' after enough people were doused and could ignite them. Would that warrant a split rank?
Just because a content creator did something doesn't mean it's not idiotic.
@@cryabovtit 🤡
"Killing people is fun, who's kidding who?"
- Pipetron 2023
"you can stop the ritualist from ritualisting"
- Also pipetron
Here's my idea about Veteran.
In ToS 1, there was Mafia, Coven, NK, NC, and a whole lot of roles for each of them. You could have a Mafioso+Janitor combo walk into you, a PM, a Vampire and Jugg. Boom, 6 kills.
But now, since theres only two factions. (Not counting Apocalypse as unique) If an enchanter walk into you. The coven know and thats it. No more kills.
I feel like theres less random chance for a different faction to happen to walk into you, and less of a reason to go and kill you. Because of Rit or Doom.
If you have any feedback, write it in the comments below.
I also think there’s just a smaller percentage of visiting roles compared to TOS1
@@mejhdhhicbfshihids652 that and now most of them from TOS1 in TOS2 do astral visits, especially town roles
also what I think adds to all of that is the Roleblock, if they know you are vet and have a pois (in terms of coven) the Pois and the Coven Killer will both go on you, you die and get no kills, 2 of 4 NAs tend to dont visit at all (SC and PB) and you cant KIll a Pirate anymore also Vet isnt UNique anymore so everyone is aware there could be more then one vet so they are less likely to just random kill someone who may been active but never claimed/ claimed TK, but still most vet kills are townie kills
@@muffinkuchen1113 and on top of all that, there is also ritualist to deal with. a confirmed vet is just not a threat to coven if they got the right roles
yeah Necro Rit PM+CL Witch-WItching-into-vet Pois Conj(even so you could count it as a waste) PM+HM it all counters vet. Vet went from all powerfull to just a good role
I think Jester should be S+, because the mere existence of jester makes the voting phase extra interesting and has everyone think twice before voting
Not really honestly I always vote ppl even if they act jester unless they're really obvious
Thanks pipe, now I can spirit bomb coroner claims!
Why
@@fangstars9226
i kinda use that fake claim or claim a ts like most commonly adm
i will admit, my go-to vet bait is to claim coroner D1
@@Underworlder5 my go to coroner claim is tpow, so the conjurer blows me up for no reason
I think Doomsayer should be permitted to guess 1 TI out of their 3 guesses, but no more than that. Most townies are already hesitant to claim outright anyway because of ritualist.
Ikr. You could be in a game as doomsayer but boom, only 2 un-Ti roles left.
Shouldn't split up the Apocalypse roles into pre- and post- transforming. Baker/Famine etc are the same role, they should never be in different tiers.
Agreed the build up stage is what balances the roles
Its list and reasoning is more about how you feel playing each role, he splits both of them because you can play both, by themselves they kinda suck, yes they are balanced like that but for the Pipe list does not matter, they different roles and you impact and feel different when you are baker or famine for example.
Ask yourself do you feel your impact and fun changes when you transform? if yes then you rate both roles, not together, in my view Pipe feels like this.
they are different roles with different abilities. that's like putting all the town roles on the same tier as amne because amne BECOMES any town role
logic 0
@@Zergling. by that logic he should rate WW that kills 6 people N2 in a different category than WW that gets PMed N1 and then conjured D2 and then an average WW game as 3rd role cause all of them feel very different even more so than avearge berserker vs average war the list is all about balancing pros and cons and here by splitting the roles he removes big part of the cons for 1 half and big part of the pros for the other part, and yes amne should be rated with what you usually transform into in mind so it should be below the worth of average town role as you miss out on at least 1 night as a nightly role which most of them are
Yeah I honestly don't think Famine is anywhere near S+. I mean in Apocalypse mode they are better but outside of it? Has it ever won on pipes videos? It's near impossible, even if you have one other horseman.
Plague bearer is probably at least D tier because unlike the baker you actually get information about the roles based off visits at nights and you can know who certain evils are and where claims are accurate or not.
Judge apocalypse roles as a whole, splitting them like this makes no sense because there are 0 scenarios where you start as Famine, or have to stay as the Baker forever (willingly)
they are different roles with different abilities. that's like putting all the town roles on the same tier as amne because amne BECOMES any town role
logic 0
@@cryabovtit you actual moron.
There's a big difference between the SOUL COLLECTOR, a role that quite literally is designed entirely around becoming Death, and Amnesiac, a role that has a random chance of swinging games.
@@cryabovtit Shut your goofy ahh up.
agreed. ranking them separately would completely change things up. death might be a game changer, but soul collector has no impact until transformed and can take a while if you get unlucky. also, because of how impactful death is, all other players in the match will unite against you, and you WILL get upped if you lack a strong claim, or someone else looks more suspicious than you. death has a low win rate for a reason
same thing with famine. while killing all other players except three might be powerful, that really narrows down the options of who famine is, meaning they rarely win even if they starve the town. if the three spared players happen to be confirmed towns or coven, you will not win. that is, if you get to transform at all, since players with bread dying suddenly is frustratingly common
@@cryabovtitamne can become any role. apoc can only switch to 1 role. your logic is 0. hypocrite
Pipe do you hate playing AS trickster, or do you hate playing AGAINST trickster?
I feel like vigilantes final shot should be a powerful one similar to sks bloodlust.
I have the same idea
To buff Pest I think it would be cool to have the plague cause a speech debuff to any non-apoc effected.
It would decrease the amount of words a player could type at once, and increase the time between a player’s messages.
That way the pb is not as useless but it also buffs the pest greatly once everyone is infected.
Ideal coven lineup = none of my teammates leaving Day 1
I think trickster is good, it’s like a better bodyguard now. Sure it’s frustrating when you get taunted, but most people when playing the role well will only taunt people with suspicious chat or no chat, so to play around it as an evil you just pretend to be town.
I think it’s fair and fun provided skill levels in the game increase.
I think Doomsayer turning into a new role that's basically ToS1 SK after there's not enough viable options would be great - they'd still be able to win, and how they play the rest of the game would be important. Jester would also work but I feel like it wouldn't be as good personally? I don't know, it'd just feel kinda boring, and would reward playing poorly earlier in the game.
Imagine a Coroner doing a necromancer style of command at night, like choosing a corpse and a live town member at the same night. That would be OP.
Retri
@@arjunbaweja7755But the retributionist is just a lesser necromancer
@@anzyroadside2374 yeah why do you think that lmao it’s for balencing coven had less people so they need more power to compensate
Yeah, needing 2 days to actually investigate suspects is weak as hell. even if you do dissect and search on the same night, it's still weak. You're still doing Invest's job but weaker.
Investigators can potentially find any evil, that's 4 Covens, and NKs which is probably around 4-5/14 chance of finding evils at worst, meanwhile a Coroner often only has a 1/14 chance of being correct, even with the buff you suggested.
@@RenShinomiya121 coroner rework idea: you can autopsy a corpse at night. the next day, three players will be picked out as suspects, one of them being the killer, and the two others being random. however, the list of suspects can also be manipulated by illusionist/enchanter (the killer will not be on the list if illusioned, and enchanted players will be automatically included on the list)
i will admit, it took me about a second to think of that rework, so it might not be the best idea. still curious to see how it will work
15:47 I was once playing as Conjurer with the book in a TT game where our TT Crusader died early on. We had to get the revealed Mayor out of the way, but knew there was a Bodyguard in the game. I told my Illusionist to go on me and killed the Mayor, bypassing the BG. We pushed and successfully hanged the BG the next day, winning us the game after killing some of the last people.
Ideal coven lineup
Cl, Rit, Pm, Hex. The reason id say this is better than what pipe's is that the information from pmer is stronger than more killing potential and Hex when you think about it if things go well 1 hexed person = 1 dead person given them more killing potential than a conj or a rit. ritualist is also way better than conjurer because most of the time you already know the role of the person you are metoring
I think the Doomsayer should have an extra option "Town Investigative" that only unlocks once there are 6 players or less left at the start of the night.
Why would you seperate apoc into 2? Should treat them as 1.
How would you rate each apoc?
personally, i would put death in C tier. yes, you auto win if you avoid getting lynched the day you transform, but that in itself is a problem. you are so powerful that every other non-apoc players will drop everything and unite just to take you down. even before that, soul collector does nothing on its own and can take a while to transform if you get unlucky, at which point there will not be many players left, and most will be confirmed or coven. death exists to punish passive/complacent towns and does not really win on its own (ironically, you want as few deaths as possible before you transform so there will be a bigger list of suspects. maybe you are lucky enough to get a jester who uses the opportunity to get lynched)
An interesting buff to Coroner could be a 3/game option to 'restore' a corpse at night, revealing it's real role/will to everyone if it was stoned/forged, and then have the day action be to investigate people for signs of being the killer of some one who's in the graveyard currently (not a 'blood check' but a 'they killed one of the corpses in the graveyard') meaning they could confirm crus/vet/vig also incase some one's fake claiming it too.
Invest could also get a buff of 'this house reeks of gas/illness' but without being a 'this is, for sure the arsonist/pb' but allow players to find them
Arso could use a buff by causing them to also douse a random adjacent house to the targeted house, allowing for more rapid, if kinda random, dousing
I know what u mean. Pipe about veteran I remember in tos1 I legit one night got like 4-5 kills it was an investment, bg, medic, and 2 other roles. But it seems so different from tos1, sadly. I haven't seen a veteran in tos2 get more than 1 kill a night yet.
Idk if this is a good shroud buff but:
There will always be at least two (they don’t know who the other is)
And if they attack/shroud the same target it becomes powerful attack
I’m not sure if they should know each other or not tho
disagree on amnesiac you aren't that role long doesn't need to be on the list cause it becomes a different role almost always d2. getting surprise roles that shouldn't be possible win games.
role can win games or you become coroner so its very random how fun/good it is.
i love necro its my personal favorite coven role just due to 1 play i had where i shut down 2 apoc members endgame due to monarch and cleric plays and carried my coven who all were basically purple jesters cause they all died so fast due to stupid moves.
9:50 Wait.....is this ~40 seconds into the Jak and Daxter Precursor Legacy - Rock Village song?
It makes ZERO sense to have baker and famine rated differently, you need to judge them as a whole (same for all the other NA)
they are different roles with different abilities. that's like putting all the town roles on the same tier as amne because amne BECOMES any town role
logic 0
@@cryabovtit Brother, I'm sorry, but if you think it makes sense to compare them to amne ur brain has 0 logic
i kind of want to see a game where its 3 hex masters and a coven leader against a really powerful town.
as a role list i feel like that would result in some pretty crazy fast paced games.
Yeah, it's not fair to split up the pre-transformation and post-transformation roles for the Neutral Apocalypse.
They need to be in the same tier, because *of course* they're going to be weak before transforming. That's their entire *point.*
they are different roles with different abilities. that's like putting all the town roles on the same tier as amne because amne BECOMES any town role
logic 0
@@cryabovtit when the baker gets three bread and turns into lookout smh smh fr fr
Ive already played a ton of games and the amount of times I get game-ended by a seer will is 10x more than anything else.
I think give the apoc roles separate rating for their two forms is wrong
I will say from what I've seen, with ghost town proscuters seem to be way more important since evil ghosts can mess things up for town
I really don't think you should rank apocalypse roles before and after transformation separately. You can't gave one without the other, they form a single complete role, splitting them up just gives a warped and confusing picture.
I think that War should target 2 people every night to rampage at, it would give them more of that feeling of being a god.
I am sad poisiner originally purpose are now gone😢
imo Amne should be able to choose a role as a day ability. ToS1 had it as a night ability that could be roleblocked and for a Town role that would indeed be too weak, but getting a random role is just... pointless. Like why even have the Amne in the game at that point, might as well get the random role at the start of the game
Even showing in chat that an Amne has transformed might be balanced with this. The notification would only happen on day 3 at the earliest, rather than day 2
Once had a coroner game where nobody died until d4 and it was as fun as it sounds
Would be interresting if Doomsayer turned into a Jester with no valid targets but died at thatt night if they're not lynched.
Old Trickster would work now better. People played it as a discount Vet which was wrong.
You could easily make up for a bad town. How? Fake claiming TI and scum reading. You could guess right as seer or psy and all the evils would come after you and you would have information on good targets to trick to.
Just baiting blindly meant you could kill a Jailor, which even a vet could not do.
Now I just bide my time as Trickster. Either ending a town heavy game anyways or trying to tip the scale towards town somehow. I never trick N1 or N2 because just like an unclericed BG its a 1f1 and you just sit there.
Coven: "dies to veteran"
Veteran/Town: "Ah i see, that person's the veteran, makes sense"
Veteran: Dies to Doomsayer.
Yeah, from what i've seen, coven have so much more protection / other methods of attacking, and yeah, just waiting as noted above usually solves the problem, after losing someone, you end up 1f1 if doomsayer is in the game. Part of veteran was how easily it was confirmed, it was someone the jailor trusted, and a confirmed townie with self defence was a strong townie. Now a confirmed townie is a dead/ignored townie.
Also, part of being unique is the ability to CC (strong when confirmed townies are good), vet was king of CC, can't cc if there can be 2 of you.
Imo Veteran probably doesnt feel as strong becuase the whole ecosystem if u will in ToS2 is more powerful and the power dynamics have shifted a bit. For the Doomsayer I think the jester change is fine but maybe they get the option to chose the TIs on n4 or n5 cuz at that point if u are a TI and alive ur either fake with defence or shouldnt be but idk maybe its too strong. Trickster needs a new identity yea. They could just turn it into the transporter while they figure something better for it imo cuz thematically it makes sense that the switch is a trick but then it wont be a TK so idk... Tbh I dont see why it needs to be kept as TK. Maybe add a some twist to the transports idk like they perform their night abilities on eachother but thats too much chaos prob. But yea for me ideal coven team would be CL, Ritualist, Conjurer cuz they are just insane and then the PM cuz I feel like the utility is crazy and its very versitile as well.
2:49 Did you say half a role or half a roll? Joking aside.. Why are they town powers and not.. like.. Town Leaders or Town Authority to save time? That way you don't get TP claims mixed up.
Prosecutor seems really powerful, but in reality is extremely weak and tends to do more harm than good.
It's the last role I managed to get my first win with and it's for good reason.
It has no comeback potential outside of 1v1 or niche situations.
In a 2v2 for example, the prosecutor only wins if the other townie is a TP.
The worst part about the role is the hefty penalty for being wrong. Prosecutor, more than any other role, has amazing potential to lose the game for town on the spot.
If you pick the wrong person, not only do you lose a townie, you also die yourself AND the day ends, so there isn't even a chance for the remaining town to salvage the situation.
The best scenarios for prosecutor are ones where town is really uncoordinated and are unable to see who the right person to lynch is.
The one time being Prosecutor has helped me out, was a game where coven was really obvious thanks to their voting pattern, but town was really uncoordinated and didn't see the obvious coven team, so I prosecuted one of them, was silenced the next day and Town still didn't catch on to who the coven were, so I used my second prosecution to get the Voodoo Master and after that was able to guide town to a win, thanks to being confirmed.
But most of my games are just me dying before using my ability, because being wrong is typically an instant loss.
Prosecutor is uniquely able to singlehandedly lose a typical 4v1 situation with 1 mistake.
-Mayor could reveal and singlehandedly lynch a townie, but the next day you'd wake up in a 2v1, and if Mayor is still alive, they'd need to make a second mistake to lose the game singlehandedly.
-Deputy can shoot the wrong person and take 2 townies out of the game at once, but town would still be left in a 2v1 situation and a single remaining trial
-Prosecutor takes 2 townies out of the game and ends the day, the next day it'll be a losing 1v1 situation.
I'd put doomsayer in the A tier with the other Neutral roles. I like how you can use it to guess other neutrals or even coven. Once it gets more respect maybe it can be shifted to B tier.
One thing that I dislike about it is that the role doesn't suit the name.
I'd also agree that it needs some further changes, maybe not to the extent of being able to get a different role but just something to open up the door to some counterplay and maybe a name change to suit the role better.
One thing I am noticing is that the gamemode also play a factor into how good a role is so your experience in playing exclusively AA plays a factor in this.
Doomsayer sounds like a neutral apocalypse role
Amne is so much less enjoyable in tos2 than tos1. Why make an amazing role so bad. I like being a BG if a friend is playing with me but that’s literally it
Tracker is F, I hate tracker because people think you’re ww or wildling and because it’s not fun
After a *Doomsayer* cannot appease the Old Ones, they will be taken as a sacrifice and killed. They were taken by the Old Ones - though, becoming *Jester* sounds better.
imho the better coven line up would be CL, Rit, Wildling, and Conj, wildling can feed claims to rit or even have the people asking for claims killed by conj
Coroner is so bad it’s better dead than alive, literally. Revived coroner is OP because the ret doesn’t even have to select anything, they revive the coroner, and when they use it on someone it just straight up tells them whether or not that player has EVER killed anyone, which is overpowered.
tbh, bers is stronger than WW; on the first kill, no, it isnt, but after that, imo, bers is stronger than WW
also, jailor got a huge nerf in this game, it should drop to A tier simply because you just completely lose the ability to jail unlike tos1 where you just lose your exes
Yeah War sucks, also Famine is not role-block immune either from starving their targets. I wish they both became role-block immune after they transformed
I think WIlding should be lower. If town has a tracker with a brain they can just check the LO claim to see if theyre wilding, now theyre immediately outed.
Imo you should judge the apocalypse roles as one, because the entire point of the first form is to get to the second form, which is usually more powerful than other roles. Imo it doesnt make sense to judge them seperatly, since the first form will be very low and the second one will be very high
Id really prefer if you ranked the neutral apocalypses as one role rather than splitting them. Of course Death is really strong but you leave out the 3-6 nights they're completely useless.
would say that both bg and trapper get destroyed by shroud as if shroud decides to shroud bg at any point and there's not a cleric on the bg will just die to themself and the trapper traps can trigger and kill anybody who is shrouded with a non astral visit. Plus shrouding is a astral action so don't have to really worry about shrouding the same target as rampaging roles.
i dont have tos2 yet but thinking about a seer finding two serial killers or two arsonists or something and revealing them as friends, and boom now they can whisper eachother and coordinate all thanks to a townie
that sounds like such a fun possibility even if its a tiny tiny chance :P
Only 1 view O.o
Love to see a new tier list now that the game has launched.
I think the reason Vets aren't as good is because they are easily geussed if a townie or coven gets killed and theres a guesser, Or they just get avoided if there isn't, they only really kill neuts effectively I think.