I am not Jewish but I love watching you guys talk about God and it is helping me out with my addiction problem so God bless you rabbi yoni and family.brittany Navarre from baton rouge Louisiana
Well done! surround yourself with people who REALLY want the same goal as you, hear only things that inspire the good in you, only things that strengthen the good in you, only things that give you hope that you will succeed despite the difficulties. It is difficult to banish the darkness, but a small candle and another small candle will make the darkness retreat and finally disappear completely as if it were not there.
🥰 are you aware of the congregation in your area? You can reach out to the reform or Jewish community Center to speak with them also… I know because I grew in your area… south of BR, though I live in Mo now.
A non Jew, i realized that my behavior was manipulated by "idol" worship until I listened to Rabbi Manis Friedman Teaching. I was driven to serve G-d either in fear of escaping "hell" or a desire to go to "heaven". My perception got in the way to seeing G-d clearly. Thank G-d there is profound clarity in the Rabbi's Teaching. If one knows G-d the way HE wants to be known, it will certainly cause that individual to serve G-d better regardless of where in the World.
I agree with you. Rabbi Friedman helped me in my journey of not being religious…but knowing G-d rightly and existing vs living… I totally have a paradigm shift. Baruch Hashem!
I love the way Rabbi Manis always remains calm, collected and unperturbed by the vilifications in the Yeshiva world... He's rock solid and it's so refreshing..!!
I wanted to let you know Rabbi Botton, in the video is on R Friedman's side, and has produced several videos defending him. The point f this video was specifically to discuss the issue of reward and punishment, and through the course of the video the goal was accomplished. all the best
@@byronumphress3805 R Friedman is not an atheist nor a heretic - maybe he is mistaken, but it would take a Torah scholar that knows Kabbalah and or Chassidut to conclude that.
Wow again Rabbi Yoni, this is priceless. In a way this is better than the classes themselves by Rabbi Friedman, mainly since he is clarifying many of the issues the religious world has with these amazing messages.
I’m blown away to see 2 huge rabbis who’ve put in there whole life’s to learn and research the torah and still opening a hard conversation about the core of Judaism and still learn every single day and searching for truth ❤❤❤
This is R' Botton -- I have spoken to lots of rabbis Chabad Litvish Sefardic rabbis that poskim Halacha and that could easily sit on a Beit Din - this is my conclusion based on all of the above: 1) His isn't an Am HaAretz. 2) Most of the clips created and promoted by those 2 rabbis have nothing to do with heresy. 3) The only issue is with the statement of reward & punishment - and this video clearly explains that R' Friedman believes in reward & punishment. His view is that the suffering that a person goes through for sin in today's generation is a rectification (sin causes suffering in gehinum (hell) etc.) But it isn't a punishment because people aren't rebelling willfully so they don't deserve punishment, but they do need to rectify the damage they caused to their soul and the world because of their sins. 4) Although the above isn't not exactly my view on this topic as I stated repeatedly in the video - Based on R' Friedman's statements in the video there is NO LONGER an issue with R' Friedman - he isn't a heretic, his statements are no longer heretical, he is calling what others call punishment rectification - now it is clear everyone agrees - they are just giving it two different terms. All the best
@leosiboni nice quotes all true but all I see here is that R Friedman is NOT a heretic he believes in reward and punishment, this is great news - now R Mizrachi and Reuven can stop and take down all their videos - great news
By the way. Even if the concept is right. And people do have distortions in hashkafa. But How do we know how much Hashem punishes for a meizid lehachis vs meizid leteavon etc. How do we know the levels of punishment? Meaning even if it’s true that out attitude of Hashem should be more positive and loving father, who said it means we must minimize the punishment levels? Who are we to define this? Why can’t both parts be true?
@@yyc2540 I think the standard is to simply say there is punishment and it is fine. In a more subtle way I do see the sense in saying people deserve less punishment because of different circumstances - similar to the way R' Friedman puts it, and I think yes, both parts can be true. I hope this is helpful - all the best
I fully get why he feels it important. In fact the greatest people of our history were the ones who knew they had to make a difference despite everyone going against them… Dovid, Rambam, Ramchal, Besht. I am from the yeshiva system but I spent years studying these topics. There are sources to this and I feel its important to fix some common misconceptions. But I do wonder if R’ Friedman is saying accurate things. Is there an email address I can reach u?
Fascinating and deep discussion. Sometimes God allows 'negative' events in our lives which can be considered as a punishment for our sins. But sometimes God allows 'negative' events where a person is innocent, and these events enable people to grow and mature in their faith and come out stronger. In both cases, God is always by our side as he loves his creation.
Sorry but I wasn't raised frum and I understand what that this Rabbi is trying to explain in his talks. It's amazing to me that people who consider to be Torah scholars can't understand it. Explaining the difference between punishment versus cause and effect and similar concepts with very helpful to my spiritual walk, and others that I have met who have listened to Rabbi Friedman, because they learned to approach Torah observance for the approach of doing it out of love, and then understood that the obligation part comes in in terms of responsibility to themselves and their greater society. If you love HaShem & other people on a mature level, you understand that responsibility and self-discipline are part of expressing that love. I think the issue this Rabbi is having is more reflective of a problem within the frum world, rather than an issue with the message that Rabbi Friedman is getting across. No one who listens to Rabbi Friedman seriously, apart from a few internet trolls that make a lot of noise in the comments, other than that no one listens to him and thinks that HaShem says we can do what we want without consequence. I'm sure that the person doing the interviewing is simply trying to play devil's advocate in order to give the Rav a chance to explain himself, but regardless of whose behalf he is speaking on, I think this is interview is very telling about how much difficulty people in the Orthodox community have in trying to get across the message of Torah to people outside of their own neighborhoods. This is why they're not affecting the change that they want 50 in the world especially where it regards non-orthodox Jews. You don't know what people need to hear, let alone how to explain it to them. Rabbi Friedman has figured it out and he's getting it across very well but you don't understand because you're not the type of person who needs to hear what he's saying. I say that in all respect.
I think any older person who seeks to look at life from a different prospective that he has always been taught will have a problem with this. Aspecialy those who have had a relationship with God their whole life based on what they thaught was the right way, it can feel wrong and anti Torah to change the way you look at God. For someone younger or less religious it is easier to recieve such a message because obviously they have not resonated so deeply with a different way of looking at it
My take is that some of the orthodox world lives according to fear of punishment- which is supposed to be the difference between Judaism and specifically Christianity, (which is also supposed to be about Hashem being a loving G_d), but has been misconstrued). Judaism is taking the same wrong path if people only keep mitzvahs out of fear. The very people who teach about the discussion and discourse that is the Talmud don’t want to discuss and continue to dissect ideas and principles.
I am a christian who learns so much from videos like this. One thing that I have noticed is that this discussion and these differences are akin to Christians who are so divided between a punishing God and threat of hellfire and eternal punishment and people like me who believe in a God who is A God of love, mercy and Grace. It is a brave Christian who will admit that they do not believe in the hell many Christians believe in.
Hi, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. You are absolutely correct that the essence of how God relates to us is through love n]and mercy. Even Divine punishment, when necessary is not meant to punish, but to rectify and is ultimately rooted in God's love. I hope this is helpful
Just to clarify: Both rabbis in this video agree that there is Reward & Punishment, as the Rambam states in his principles of Faith. Except that R' Friedman prefers to call punishment rectification. This is also true. I personally have no issue with using the term punishment, but saying rectification instead for the reasons R Friedman explained is also kosher. There is nothing heretical in this video - BUT I do admit the clips can be misleading. It is very possible the full video that the clips were taken from gave an entirely different message as the clips. I hope this is helpful. R Botton (the one doing the interview)
Serious question for the Rabbi. If a tinok shenishba doesn’t get punished. And aFFB gets punished aka rectification then how does the soul of a tinok shenishba get rectification without punishment? Doesn’t every soul need rectification regardless of knowledge or intent?? In Ex a shogeg. Or just to purify the soul
Rambam says that we are punished even for things that are not written that hashem knows we knew inside our minds that we are responsible to do. Similarly we know that everyone is expected by hashem to do what he thinks we are capable of knowing right from wrong even if they are tinok shenishbus
Rabbi Friedman is the Mesiachh of our generation You are the only Rabbi i listen about 5 years now it has changed my Christian way of thinking about God You are my mentor Thank you Rabbi Friedman
Dear Rabbi Yitzchak Botton, I have watched the whole of this video, and to be honest, if anything, this just makes the case against Rabbi Friedman stronger. I suggest you watch the whole think again with intellectual honesty, and this will become evident to you too. I don't want to write a whole "megilla" here but let's take one point. Most of the video is taken up with a discussion of his view that there is no punishment anymore (or we don't deserve punishment nowadays - not that the linguistics makes any real difference). It is clear that his position is unorthodox, and although you try to get him to agree to change his wording, he won't agree to do so. In the end you move on to another topic, but I think you need to be honest and accept that his approach to sechar v'onesh is not accepted by other great Rabbis and is at odds with what is written in the Seforim Hakedoshim. There are many other examples. Maybe in another comment. Anyhow, you are trying too hard to make peace, and therefore you aren't allowing yourself to hear what he's saying. Best wishes to you and I suggest you discuss this with the greatest Rabbonim and real experts in chassidus.
Hello Reb Yitzchak. I did see your comments, but wanted to think it over and also to rewatch the video. There is a lot to write about this. In the meantime, I will await your updated comments. Best wishes, Refoel Dovid.
In a perfect world we would be able to speak about this. 1) You are correct that R' Friedman's approach is the clip (keep in mind the full video likely explains a lot more and may not even be problematic) is NOT the conventional way this concept is taught. But: 1) Rav David Moshe Valli a student or early teacher of the Ramchal says just about the exact same thing in his commentary to Tehillim. 2) The Me'Am Loez on Avot says something close to what he says but not as extreme. 2) (this is my main point) Towards the end of the Schar & Onesh part - R Friedman says he believes that a soul can suffer, go to hell, be reincarnated etc. - This point itself is a victory - because this means he is ABSOLUTELY not a heretic - and what he means in the statement that no one deserves to be punished today is kosher. Because he says that he calls punishment rectification because people don't rebel against God today in the same way they did in earlier times. (though not the strongest rational it passes. 3) One can say that the clip is what turned a small issue into a total disaster - because it presents the statement with zero context. But I do accept that one can critical and criticize the isolated statement on its own - but I don't think one can use it to prove or conclude he is a heretic; and certainly not with a video explaining what he meant that is kosher - which this video accomplishes on some level. 4) There are real rabbis that judge him favorably - though not R Feldman - and I think both sides are valid - meaning some say he and his teachings are ok enough though not the ideal and others say his teachings are not ok because they are misleading and distort the standard way of teaching Judaism. But I think even R Feldman would accept he isn't a heretic, and the statements with his explanations are not actual heresy - but are problematic and R Friedman should retract them and stop teaching this way. 5) And in my opinion, after all the time and research I have done on this - I think R Friedman can minimize his teaching of this and focus on other important teachings and problem solved. all the best
Well in a nutshell there is a new recording from Rav Aharon Feldman Shlita where his opinion is given more clearly. Have you heard it? Why didn't he retract his prior statement after your interview and clarification several weeks ago? By the way, are you using an alternative name here as it looks different? Best regards.
I was walking home on shabbos erev purim after shul. It was dark, and I got hit with a truck. This was the 1st day I wore tzizis... All my friends said "Nebech, Boruch. What did you do to Hashem!?" I said, fools. It was Hashem who saved me and made me get away from this accident with three broken ribs. And they were broken ecsectly were tzitzis did not touched.
Baruch Hashem! My condolences for the accident you suffered though. Something similar happened to me this year during the first day of Pesach, two weeks after I went through the Gerus. Except I wasn't hit by a truck, I was stabbed... And I'm convinced that it was Hashem who saved me from death.
Thank you yoni for putting out these videos, this is an amazing conversation, this Rabbi challenges Rabbi manis, but in a very respectful and humble manner, which is the only way to get to the truth, as opposed to debate someone, and everyone becomes defensive, So Please keep on sharing these kind of conversations of rabbi manis with other Torah scholars! Especially those who challenge the Rabbi, so we get more clarity on these topics. Thank you you again
The guy on the left sounds extremely smart, the way he comes to the conclusions of minute long conversations before they happen is incredible. Id love to hear him speak his own thoughts and ideology.
Thank you Rabbi Katz. It's sad that Rabbi Friedman has to defend himself and his teachings. A very interesting and thought provoking video. Rabbi Friedman was one of the first Rabbi's I listened to when I started my Jewish journey. The other two I don't listen to or watch anymore.
I feel the same way, when I began learning I was blown away by R' Friedman's teachings, so much wisdom, so clear, and so understandable. That's one of the reasons I wanted to do this video, to help. all the best
@@chatisawasteoftime you are absolutely correct, I think at least for me and probably the original commentor it's the extremely harsh treatment of him that is what is so sad - there may be issues but statements coming out of their mouths - sad
Basically every Sin has 2 aspects. Defying god’s will and the actual sin itself. In conclusion Merida = Punishment and rectification. The actual sin = Rectification. Same as obeying commandments. One is the obeying 2 is the actual good that takes effect. You receive 2 diff rewards. For the obeying you get credit and for the good deed done it’s an automatic payment, the good deed itself pays off.
Here is a full quote of the passage from the Maaneh loshon book. “ … For who am I that You have brought me to this position. I AM NOT NEEDED BY YOU. It is only in Your great kindness that You created me, so that I could achieve merit. You brought me into being from nothingness.” in black & white letters.
Most rabbis that have properly learned the concept of Divine need agree that we need God and within creation God needs us - this is of course a self created need that doesn't detract from His perfection. I think R Friedman also accepts this - when he says we don't need him - he just wants to point out that our need depends on existing which itself is not an essential need, because God didn't need to create us. This is not a new concept is has been written in books for at least 1000 years. The Shelah - R' Yehoshua Horowitz from he 1600 and he quotes older sources. This is also supported by Kabbalah that goes back to the giving of the Torah to Moshe. I hope this is helpful
We are not needed on the level of human prespective. What Rabbi Friedman is saying is that we are needed in the pre-tzimtzum ratzon. Or to put it another way, we are not needed in and of ourselves because in and of ourselves we are not, but in the eternal mind of G-d we are there in the "Place" or else we could not exist. If He had not eternally thought of us we would not exist. So, His need of us is His need of Himself just under an unexpected (by us) aspect of His own etenral reality.
@@CraigKinsey-c3c What you say is very deep, and ultimately will be decided by a true sage if correct or not. What is clearly stated in Chabad Chassidut - would be fine to teach - I am aware that it is taught that Torah and Israel are rooted in Atzmut - what exactly that means needs to be clarified. all the best
There is only one God, and His wisdom is for EVERYONE. Thank God, today, through the internet, so many people around the world from all faiths are able learn and benefit from true teachings of God from the Torah, thanks to R' Friedman.
Whats Interessting i saw Rabbi friedmans video and understands exactly like you now talking and explaining it. And i am no jew even if didnt really know my true Religion but my heart for the jewish people since i am very young is with you❤ and my ancestors have a lot secrets so its hard to know everything i know that the grandpa of my grandpa moved to a village with his 2 brothers and nobody knows where they came from, no family, nothing, just this 3 young brothers that were very hard working people and never told anything about Religion so its really a secret in my family, we believe in God.
But shout-out to the Rabbi on the left for coming down asking his questions!!!! Not being like rabbi Mizrachy who simply criticizes That's amazing!!! I hope rabbi Mizrachy comes around too!!!
yes it's called doing out of pure loves - for the one you love - not doing it for yourself because you love yourself. In the end Divine service done out of fear of punishment or the loss of reward is self-service it's all about me. Sadly this foundation of life and a true connection with God is lost when you watch R Reuven scream against this video. Calling the rabbis in this video wrong and heretics - when anyone with eyes can see that he is wrong and guilty of shaming rabbis when it is NOT justified. I will say respectful criticism of some of the things R Friedman says is justified.
Most young people need their eyes open today, it won't happen without suffering.. it humbles people and builds inner strength, character - unfortunately because we ate the bad fruit or eve did. We're here to build inner strength and grow to become mature, life after life in hope we get it right the next time, I hope this is my last rodeo I'm so tired. We know when we have had a good day with all the bad days we have.. can't people tell the difference, we can't stay innocent forever or nothing would get done.. we would be just people pleasing all the time and respecting the wrong ones..it all happens on a bigger scale than we can comprehend, it's a struggle being a Jew you have to take the wheel..make them understand. Wish I could speak Hebrew I'm only getting half this conversation. There's always consequences to actions, maybe that should wake people up but some people never seem to learn. why would we get punished if we have free will.. gods keeping score isn't he in the book of life. Surely the death penalty from god is not a literal death especially if you atone and repent for that sin murder idol worship etc god knows anyway who's really sorry a genuine person at fault will probably cause their own suffering in their minds.
Anything what is opposite to 13 principles of faith is heresy. When it is written that "God rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked" it was mean it how righteousness or wiskedness are define in Torah. We can understand that or not, approve it or not, but it is unchangeable. No matter if you are Jew or Gentile, if you are servant of Hashem, you are following His will unquestionably. So there are punishments and rewards, and people should accepted it. We live in generation where people are very infantile, spoiled and trivial in general and get annoyed by anything what potentially oblige them or limit them. Religion shouldn't become "amusing" or "amazing" for people. It will give you beauty of life and insights unimaginable to average secular people, but you have to earn it. What would be the challenge and purpose if everybody are good as they are?
what you say is correct, but the point of this rabbi is NOT to go against the 13 principles - but that people don't fully understand the laws as they did in earlier times and should be judged with favor. He says in the last answer that souls are punished but that the suffering is not to punish but to fix. all the best
@@Improvingonmywaysanddeeds 1) you are not a Rav and your opinion doesn't matter in this context. 2) Many rabbis say Rabbi Friedman is NOT a heretic - even if his statement on reward and punishment is problematic.
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 1) When someone is a heretic the halachah is they're litteraly extricating themselves from being part of Am Yisroel. Chas vchalila one should do such a thing, yet it's by this rationale(and forgive me because I mean no offense) that I am saying you sound very very goyish 2) Gedolei Yisroel have openly rebuked many of his statements as being 100% kefirah. GO AND LEARN SOMETHING, stop trying to teach when you obviously don't have the gumption at this very moment. 3) This is not a small matter. So again if you're not up to par STAY OUT OF IT. Not because you're not free to comment, but because you're comments thus far seem to be only adding to the problem. 4) "Reishis Chochmah Yiras HaShem." Now to everything there are many attributes. Fear of HaShem doesn't just mean "fear of separation from Him," though it's true that we all abhor the idea of being apart from Hakadosh Boruch Hu, it also means fear of the incredible "punishment" coming if we don't do teshuvah. Go read Mesilas Yesharim. 5) "In all my years I haven't found many things as beneficial for the soul as silence." You talk far too much, and with far too much arrogance for someone who's utterly mistaken.
One of the basic principles of true faith is that Only God existed without a beginning - creation has a beginning - where and how the two meet it taught in Kabbalah. So when you say post tzimtzum always existed, meaning has no beginning - what exactly do you mean?
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764A difficult thing to elaborate on in a comment section. But essentially the revelation of Atzmus. The madrega of Techiyas Hameisim (after Gan Eden). There are a few Maamarim that explain it, but it’s essentially growing beyond a place of thinking to a place of being. And the Mitzvos & Torah, when seen as connected to His Essence (pre tzimtzum) than become a channel to remain connected at that level. It’s also a level beyond Schar & Onesh. Since it’s after a person gets their schar & onesh & is on a personal level of Chaim Nitzchi (all of which are stages in holiness/ expansion of consciousness). At least this is how I understand the many writings and have come to experience it myself.
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 also, props for a diplomatic approach you took in all this. It shows great character to try to make peace between sages. A beautiful thing to be put on public display
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 a simpler explanation to the above: if you’re beyond time, than you contain within you both time and no time. Not just no time. If you’re beyond creation. You contain within you creation and no creation. Ein Sof can be interpreted as Endless Nothing or No End (infinite). So connecting with and being a channel for infinite takes you outside the experience of self & other. There can be no reward when you are embodying all of reality. And ultimately, that’s what God wants. A limited creation that can hold within itself infinity. And the Jewish people, Torah, and God unite at that level (when we love each other & keep His Mitzvos). Thats how the Chabad Rebbeim explain Redemption.
I’m at 32:48, and the statement of if there’s no punishment or reward if the frum person is going to go eat a cheeseburger. A person shouldn’t want to. The positive commandments are our “nutrients” the negative ones are “poison”. If we go with that mind frame, we can look at keeping the Torah as something that is good for us. And we can all understand the matzav of doing things that can be harmful that aren’t necessarily aveiros
I would love to see a live debate between rav Mizrachi and rav Manis Friedman like they did in Talmudic times. It would be very interesting and informative. I also struggle to accept some statements especially considering what the great Ramchal wrote in Derech Hashem about punishment and suffering. Any chance to organise such a debate? I’m sure tIm not the only one.
To debate both sides need to be on the same level of knowledge - and though I am a fan of R Mizrachi and he gives good lectures R Friedman is a towering Giant in Torah knowledge and Chassidut and Kabbalah - it wouldn't be much of a debate
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 I dont follow your logic my friend. I like to listen to both Chabad Rabbis and R Mizrachi as well. If Rabbi Friedman is a giant then it should be so easy to win the debate. R Mizrachi also has tens of thousands of followers and would be enlightened to get closer to the essence of truth.
@@elisheva7772 here is some logic - what would be the point of winning - when the other person has been insulting and screaming at him for years and he doesn't fully understand these matters that should be left to leading American rabbis - there is know point in talking with him The above video is different - though the 2 rabbis disagree on point there is respect from one to the other all the best
@@yaakovyosef1631 The logic is simple my friend, it’s not about which rabbi win, it’s for many people like me who want to listen and decide for ourselves. R Misrachi is not the only one who disagrees with some statements in regards to punishment. Rabbi Alon Anova is another rabbi. And in my first comment the Ramhal who explained the seven reasons for suffering in his well known holy book Dereh Hashem (The way of God) I am for one and a few of my friends would like to know and want to get to the truth, as both arguments are convincing and there are contradictions . We shouldn’t be afraid of a debate as there are many people who listen to lectures and genially are confused.
@@elisheva7772 Hello, this is R' Botton. I read your comments and felt the sincerity in them. Here is a partial attempt at answering your questions: keep in mind there is more than 1 way to look at this issue 1) Respectful criticism of R' Friedman is valid because the clips on a basic level (it is possible/likely that the full classes are not or less problematic) can be seem as contradicting the principle of reward & Punishment. 2) Another view is that R Friedman speaking to non-religious people was creating a soft entry point for people that do NOT accept or want to believe in a God that punishes for the things written in the Torah - so he wants to de-emphasize the idea of punishment - because many people simple won't hear it. a) even for this reason one cannot lie - so the question becomes is he teaching something heretical. Some rabbis (not RUclips rabbis their opinions don't count so much including mine) that are real Jewish leaders or community leaders that are expert in Jewish Law like Rav Aaron Feldman has said in a video it is heretical to say there is no reward & punishment and he considers the clips to do that. Other rabbis one a Gadol of Chabad qualified to be head of a Beit Din - so he is on the highest level - not as famous in the yeshiva world as Rav Feldman but maybe as big of a rav - doesn't feel it is heresy but seems that way. In his opinion r Friedman does this on purpose to draw people in and then explains his real point. This Rav doesn't approve of the tactic but says R Friedman is NOT a heretic and though not ideal won't criticize him publicly (possible because he knows R Friedman is NOT a heretic and he is speaking to people that are not religious anyway - so no real harm is being done). Another big rabbi and expert in Jewish law agrees R Friedman is provocative and controversial but is fine with what R Friedman is doing because he doesn't mean at all that there is no punishment - and even the clips can be understood that way. Granted this rabbi is choosing to interpret the clips in R Friedman's favor - but he is doing this as a expert in Jewish Law - so it is powerful and creates a valid position that R Friedman is fine as he is and the clips are fine. Another Rav feels that only with the explanation in this video - that there can be suffering for the soul in hell - but R' Friedman calls it RECIFICATION NOT PUNISHMENT - is R' Friedman ok, and without this explanation the statements seem heretical and are problamitic. Not that it's important I would follow the "Gadol of Chabad" and "Another big rabbi and expert in Jewish" My opinion is also that the 2 youtube rabbis that insult ad scream at and about R Friedman are wrong in their tactics and show that they are not qualified to be involved in this at all. 1) because they include things that are not problematic in their criticism and 2 they do not know enough about the subjects they are screaming about. R Reuven's behavior is not in line with Torah and he insults both kosher and sometimes not so kosher rabbis which makes him even worse - he is a self-appointed rabbi that is not qualified to even speak on most of these matters and his opinion means nothing. R Mizrachi is a little better - but he shouldn't be making lists of un-kosher rabbis - he should simply give his opinions to more qualified rabbis and let them take care of things, so in this regard he is also speaking in a place that he should be quiet. I realize someone can accuse me of doing the same as them with this comment but I feel I am mainly explaining that which qualified rabbis have told me, and a little of what I feel they agree with. I hope this helps All the best
It would be helpful if when you are using jewish terms, could you use English term also. This will help us understand the the depth of the language and discussion.
you are absolutely correct - this talk was on a more advanced level. Look up this title if you want to see these 2 rabbis talking with everything in English: 2 Rabbis Drink Coffee & Set the Record Straight
By thinking or leading to what is being asked has us thinking; "IF learning and holding TRUE Emes and knowledge" = ASK questions on the meaning VS. what is tought to be implied"" and my emotional reaction. The statement is right and yet the Torah is full of punishment and Olam Habba Reward and let us use this knowledge to get ourselves to the level and not be afraid to get it right!
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 use our mind, don't take anything at face value but the Torah itself and then oh yeah commentary is needed to clarify almost all of that too :)
Where is the ahavas Isroel? There are some derogatory terms they use for secular Jews which upsets me. No one is perfect. The secular Jew that one of these Rabbis calls “scum” may be 1000% times better of a person than he is. I am a secular Jew who is very spiritual and I’m trying to learn as much as possible from various Rabbis. From my understanding, the 2nd temple was destroyed because of Jews not getting along with each other. October 7th occurred maybe for the same reasons as some Rabbis point out. Can’t we just stop hating and start loving one another? Even if you don’t see eye to eye. Sit down and have a discussion instead of bashing the other. Oy vey 🤦♀️
@@chatisawasteoftime They've gone far beyond protesting heresy there are things in the video clips that have nothing to do with heresy. and the way they do it, I don't know how a loving Jew can speak like that, and all in the name of God - and His honor. I don't buy it. LOOK AT HOW a gadol handled it - Rav Aharon Feldman said what he had to say but was careful to say theat the idea was heresy he didn't call R Friedman even once a heretic in that video. And he even went out of his way to speak nice about him. that's a Torah Scholar That's someone that loves his fellow Jew - Why don't those other 2 behave like Rav Feldman? What they've done may be a chillul Hashem.
@@liliyalyubomirsky3 you are right about what you say, keep up the great work. and see my comment to @chatisawasteoftime all the best - you have no idea how happy you make God I'm sure more than many of us.
Punishment is really just an opportunity for Tikkun... Rav is revealing deep secrets of Torah!! Shma Yisrael! Come and See Psalm 18:26 עם נבר תתברר ועם עקש תתפתל׃ With the pure You show Yourself pure, | And with the perverse You show Yourself a wrestler,
I hear you, but the truth is God created us to be rewarded NOT punished. The proof is that before the good deed is done God wants to reward us - before the sin is done God doesn't want to punish us - even after the sin is done God is pained when we are punished. There is a lot more to say about this. all the best
With regard to the statement that "G-d needs us," we can see that the Kabbalah explains that in order for Zeir Anpin to gain complete mochin, there has to be an aliyah of M"N from the Nishmot Yisrael to Malchut and that sets up the cascade of aliyot until the Ein Sof, and the hamshacha of Mochin back down to Z"UN D'Atzilut. So, our Torah and Mitzvot, in effect, build up the expression of Hashem (in the aspect of Zeir Anpin/Malchus), to give bounty to all worlds. In that sense, Hashem "needs" us. Of course, this is relative to the system of the Olamot, and not talking about the Atzmut (as far as I understand).
Your explanation is excellent and correct. R' Botton has a few videos on this topic that explains the same points on these channels Hidabroot, and Divine Wisdom: Live a Better Life
Your comment is exactly the way Kabbalah explains this concept, excellent job. If you search the video title "God needs" "Heretical" with my name - you should find a bunch of similar videos on this topic - there are 2 different videos of only me speaking that explain for the most part what you say in your comment. kol hakavod
I don't understand that rabbis that teach torat Ari'zal, claim the statement "God needs us" is not true. No need to go deep in this study, the basic hakdamot talk about how human kind is deeply involved in the process Ein Sof started..
Thank you for this discussion!!! I guess the big question that remains is why do people who go through terrible suffering go through it? If its not a punishment and even if you say its a tikun, thats one horrible tikun like whats happening with the hostages or Jews that were murdered on October 7, etc....is the answer that its something that only Gd understands and we simply can not? In the face of such suffering, its difficult to accept without some sort of an explanation, and perhaps its natural and easiest for people to say its a punishment for something, because if its just suffering for no good reason i feel like it somehow makes it even worse
thanks for commenting. This is the way I se it: 1) Traditionally Reward and punishment is a result of God wanting to give a real reward, so without punishment if we sin, the reward for doing good wouldn't be as real - there must be a balance. 2) The idea of tikun instead of punishment is more just a different way of saying the same thing. R' Friedman's point is that today people aren't really rebelling so it's more the effect of sin without rebellion then sin with rebellion which would be more harsh - but I think most people will just call it punishment. 3) About how harsh punishment can be - it is a very hard question to address - in particular today and to less religious/more secular Jews. And yes you are correct - some of this is above us and only God knows. all the best
Serious question for the Rabbi. If a tinok shenishba doesn’t get punished. And a FFB gets rectification aka punishment and if indeed rectification = Punishment then how does the soul of a tinok shenishba get rectification without punishment? Doesn’t every soul need rectification regardless of knowledge or intent?? In Ex a shogeg. Or just to purify the soul
Tinok shenishba is a shogeg not oines. He’s just saying that even what we call meizid is really just shogeg. Maybe one reason people think anything meizid is punished because Bais Din technically would punish for any meizid even for teyavon. But we don’t realize that’s only with warning + witnesses.
You ask a very good question. According to the Rambam, as explained by the Lubavitch Rebbe, someone raised secular that is unable to accept following Torah and Mitzvot because of the way he was raised is exempt from judgement and punishment because it is beyond his/her ability to choose otherwise. This seems to me to apply to a Jewish court - meaning they would be exempt from any of the punishments an earthly Jewish court in impowered to decree. Regarding what happens to the soul, I think is is reasonable to think that God may also pardon them from any judgements/punishments in heaven - but it is very possible that the soul may need to come back to the world to fulfill mitzvot that it never did, and also possible to fix things. I will try and look into this more for more information for you. all the best
If you see the gemora or I think even the Mishnayos, it is clear and explicit that tinok shenishba is a shogeg and “brings a korban” once he becomes aware. No one disputes this. These are clear gemoras in shabbos and krisos. Which Rambam are you referring to? Yes I agree that bain Adam lamakom Hashem looks at everything. Only he has the ability to take everything into account . Bais din works differently. (For example is someone does Teshuva Bais din still punishes. But he won’t get Kares which is direct from heaven.) The rebbe may have meant that today’s tinok shenishbas are considered ‘ones’ in shomayim... I don’t believe he’s arguing on open chazal.
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 Thank you for responding. I like the idea you mention that Reincarnation is the rectification for a Tinok shenishba. As we understand that reincarnation is Yesurim for the soul a form of punishment but for the sake of rectification, If this is the case for a TS where chazal say he doesn’t get punished this would imply that a FFB does get punished beyond just rectification unlike R Manis is saying. And The idea that that R Manis mentioned we are all tinok shenishba then how will reincarnation help, if we are only coming back into the same situation of a TS again? And if you were to say that we aren’t all considered a TS the answer for a tinok shenishba it would seem that a FFB doesn’t get reincarnated? Again we differentiating between the FFB and TS in the tikkun. And hence the FFB punishment is real and not just rectification like a TS.
I don’t know about old generations But in todays times it’s clear to me That punishment is a simple consequence of our actions If I wake up late to work and miss the bus by a minute Then lose my job for being late to work Is not a punishment from g-d It’s simply a consequence of my actions We have clear choices that are all ours G-d is not involved in our choices He only prepares our next move based on our decisions /choices Now you may understand the multiverse lol
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 Smells of obfuscation. If you're having a discussion about things he said, those statements need to be quoted and front and center of the discussion. It's worth the time.
@@chatisawasteoftime I didn't see the part about his book, I didn't read his book. The issues as far as I now are from the clips, the book is a new thing, and like I said the clips are well known., not sure what smells over here, he agreed to discuss the issue.
@@chatisawasteoftime did you see this response with some comments I added to it? I didn't see the part about his book in your comment, and I didn't read his book. The issues as far as I know are from the clips, the book is a new thing, and like I said the clips are well known., not sure what smells over here, he agreed to discuss the issue., that shows he is willing to face criticism from someone that doesn't scream and insult him all the time.
I love this. Pls make the same arrangement between R Manis and Rabbis Yaron Reuven and R Mizrachi. I think that if bH it works out for peace and goodness it would be an amazing Kidush Hashem!!
it would be great - but sadly it doesn't seem possible - there needs to be at least some decency from the other two for this to happen. Also when you are guilty before a debate what's the point of debating.
NO MORE DIN!! The Torah says do not hit a grown child (as discipline) because he may hit back -thats "lifnei iver." Hashem keeps His Torah, so no more "hitting"-we are too old for that. He must send Moshiach now!!
Another Q here. We find punishment thruout the Torah that doesn’t seem like rectification alone. For example. Moshe Rabeinu was not allowed into EY as a punishment as specifically written… We can all agree that it wasn’t deliberate, So What rectification was there for moshe by not allowing him into EY ( cause and effect as mentioned ) Vs say breaking a hand that did the deed or something of the sort, how was not allowing him into EY a rectification vs just an average punishment other then choosing the one thing he was looking frwrd to for many years??? Where’s the cause an effect on this one? It musta been a punishment because a man of his status should have known better even tho it wasn’t deliberate, but it couldn’t be a punishment of rectification alone, where’s the rectification shown here? We find rectification with midda kinged midda makes sense. What was the mida kneged midda here?
No one deserves punishment? So I can do what I want with no conquence. And if there is consequence then it in undeserved? Fear of punishment, combined with love and awe of H.keeps us on the straight and narrow. Reality.
Excellently explained, and absolutely correct. BUT that doesn't mean that when someone's child is on trial or their brother, or father - or you and me for that matter - YOU DON'T PLEAD WITH GOD TO BE PARDENED, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE GUILTY. Never forget this fact - God will NOT be angry when you plead for the wicked to be forgiven - In fact, the opposite is true. When Avraham prayed to God to heal the wicked Avimelech - God listened to Avraham, and Avimelech was healed. Now here is a - Argumentum a fortiori (look it up if you don't know what this is) - If God accepted the request for the wicked Avimelech to be pardoned for his sins and be miraculously healed from sickness - then how much more so will God Almighty answer us when we plead that God pardon the wicked and spare them from the harsh punishments of strict judgement, and instead have mercy on them, as a father has mercy on his own child. In fact a great RABBI from the 1700's writes the exact same idea that R Manis Friedman is getting yelled at for saying as a request - in his commentary on Tehillim, Psalms. Rabbi Moses David Valle (circa 1697 - December 17, 1776) was a Jewish biblical commentator, physician, scholar, and Kabbalist from Italy. He lived in the city of Padua and was a disciple of the Ramchal, Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato and (Rabbi Menachem Azariah da Fano). This is a quote from his commentary of Psalms, Tehillim. My Lord,(please) don’t distance Yourself from me: REQUEST from God (Divine Presence) not to distance Itself from us during the time of exile because of our sins. For all of them (our sins) were committed (as if) they were done by force; because we are in the lowest of states spiritually and physically weak and scattered among the non-Jewish nations and people we live among. And even worse, we are constantly pursued by the evil spiritual forces that entrap us in exile, thus causing us to sin. On the contrary, it is fitting that they (the Jewish people in exile) be forgiven and not punished. Just as you assured them through His servants the prophets, “Because I will forgive those that remain (in exile).
To many times I have heard and read sages use definition of words that do not match the orginal definitions in the orginal torah. Nefesh is the body/soul but then I see teachers say the soul is not the body but something non tangible. All these changes in definitions is why we have the current misunderstandings in Judaism. THERE NEEDS TO BE A RESTORED ANCIENT UNIFORM CODE OF TORAH JUSTICE. Yes or yes?
"G-d needs us" is technically true outside of your perspective. G-d is asking you for help with something in this particular time. G-d wants you to fulfil something. You are the chosen people are you not? You need to make something whole. Rabbi Manis Friedman spoke the answer but you both missed what it referred to and what you need to do in regards to it.
24:31 in my opinion, each individual should do their diligence, to inquire and consider the context of what Rabbi says, instead of criticising in ignorance by opinion…. Not doing so is a form of lashan hara, as well as misrepresenting another due to their lack of understanding…. Whether that person is a rabbi or not.
The biggest Rabbis in the world in the US and in Israel rebuked Rabbi Friedman openly are you saying that the biggest Hahamim who walks this earth are ignorant ?
In the Torah We find often. The concept of Punishment is שיראו ויראו they shall see and be afraid. When u punish for example same as a court would punish to show an example. That’s not for rectification alone.
I think the action has 2 effects, 1 as you stated, while at the same time it is also a tikun - (keep in mind everyone agrees that punishment is a tikun, on this there is no argument)
If indeed any time a person sins and goes against Gd it’s only because as you quoted in the beginning that means he doesn’t really know God. Then How then is it possible that there ever be punishment for going against Gd? I’m asking in the case scenario where Rabbi Manis agrees there is punishment not just rectification? As We do see countless punishments in the Torah whether it was Jews or non Jews. As quoted עד שנכנס בו רוח שטות… Yet u agree if deliberate there is punishment. Wouldn’t that be contradictory?
I think R Freidman feels that punishment would only be applicable when someone sins willfully, and only when the person is a clear thinking man on a high level of responsibility, like the case of Amalek, or the Kohen Gadol that turned to heresy.
most of the many rabbis if fact almost all of them (well over 25) all agree with the main idea R' Manis says about need. It is actually a well known and accepted idea discussed for over 1000 years. It just is something people are not used to hearing - and they are confused about God's essence and Godly revelation.
Children or immature people want punishment. I'm not a child. I want to be corrected and disciplined if I do something wrong. Correct me don't torcher me. God wants us to mature.
25:26 the holocaust, the Rebbe is right, it was not punishment… exile is a form of punishment, but yet not a punishment… it’s a consequence…. And was for good… of other nations as well as ourselves. The holocaust and pogroms, were due to our being the suffering servant, it was not due to our sins but the sins of the other nations.
I think there is truth to what you said, but at the same time from different perspectives other terms would also be correct - like we have a relationship with God etc.
Many people who are mentally strong can withstand a limited perception of truth. But a person who is in pain and mentally not strong and is told God will punish them with pain can be devastated and will stop wanting to live. Limiting truth can be very harmful
There are many angles to the truth. We are supposed to use the ones that will bring people closer. Not further. So sometimes it can be a lie to say something “true”. Because that’s not what’s supposed to be said for that situation. Some “truths” are also misunderstood and are therefore wrong to say.
Another Q. How do you explain rectification when we find חרון אף quoted many times in the Torah. And not just by מרידה even by Just תאוה. Like by קברות התאוה. As well as we find אל נקמות ה׳
RABBI TELLS US WHEN WE THINK WE HAVE ALL THOSE USELESS NEEDS,MANNY NEEDS OF OUR YOUTH IN LATE LIFE SEAMS TO HAVE BEEN FOOLISH. THE NEED OF WHAT GOD WANTS FROM US 630 MAKES MORE CENSE
R MF and R David Aaron are both hard pedaling love, because too many Jews are lost and they won't return if Din is front and center. Love has to be put front and center, and slowly it will be understood that Din is also love
beautiful point - I think we can find support to this from Hillel in the second story in tractate Shabbos (the one before the famous story of the convert standing on 1 foot) He converted someone that only wanted to accept the written Torah Not the oral Torah - Hillel accepted him and found the right way and time to show him that he needs to accept the Oral Torah and he did - look up the gemara there are 3 stories with a nice ending (Tractate Shabbat 31a,b).
Read Ezekiel chapter 39 from the Tanakh. God is very clear that He punished Israel for their sins against Him, and He hid His face from them. But He will have mercy upon them.
I agreed with everything Rabbi Friedman has said, even before this tho;but I thought that maybe he should rephrase the word they got so hurt about it 😂 instead of so much light that he came out with, which I think it was genius pure ruah hakodesh and maybe people got blinded with so much light 🤷♂️ Rabbi Yaron Reuven what do you think? We must change is mashiach times 🥰BHA שאדדיני😍
i think people are getting caught up in the language of "needs"...in English. A creator, even if He is perfect, REQUIRES a relationship. Otherwise, He is alone. And as apparent, He doesn't want to be alone. I don't understand what's so problematic here.
I’m at around the 20 minute mark and the discussion of punishment or tikkun, however if we’re talking about where we judge the person as an oneis and he is patur, then does he still need a tikkun. Granted we should strive to fix ourselves so we can remove ourselves from the status of oneis but in those areas that are beyond our bechira, there wouldn’t be a need for tikkun
This is an excellent question. I recall someone else asking this question in the comments. I think that you assumption is correct about actions beyond ones bechira; but I think that the soul can still be missing the positive mitzvot that were never fulfilled; and a lack of reward can also be seen as an onesh. Also based on a Midrash and Chassidic stories it is possible that a soul can require tikun for oneis (though I need to research this more): 1)Moshe's mouth was burned because he fed from a non-Jewish woman as a baby (not sure of exact source). 2) There are stories that reiterate the same idea of a child that comes into the world to fix a similar thing. kol tuv
Many in the Yeshivishe Velt are unready to make the paradigm shift, they still linger on the centrality of punishment.. what is the source of this obsession.
the source is many verses in the Torah, teachings in the Talmud and Zohar, even Tanya talks about punishment. But as we get closer to the final redemption were come closer to a new reality that will go beyond reward and punishment. I actually mention that this same level was granted to the Jews that left Egypt. all the best
R Manis doesn't always qualify his general (often dramatic) statements.sometimes this occasionally gets him into "trouble" (misunderstanding). He needs to take this into account and explain better
Also, explaining subtleties and nuances in order to address common misconceptions in the community can be a wonderfully important thing. But when the vast majority of listeners think they’re hearing the basics and fundamentals, harping on these points is misleading people. So even if the teacher isn’t saying heresy the listeners are hearing heresy.
@@yyc2540 yes there is the possibility of people understanding things the wrong way, but keep in mind these talks are for non-religious and non-Jews - so in almost all cases the gain is much greater than the loss. And I don't think a religious person that has learned Torah will walk away from his videos and do sins.
Another Q for the Rabbi. Are u saying that say for ex. Hitler won’t get punished only rectification, What rectification is there even possible for a man the likes of Hitler? As we find with Titus how his punishment was prescribed and so forth… and ofc we all heard of Sh’eol Tachtis that’s never ending? As well as kaf hakela as some believe is endless.
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I am not Jewish but I love watching you guys talk about God and it is helping me out with my addiction problem so God bless you rabbi yoni and family.brittany Navarre from baton rouge Louisiana
This is amazing to hear
Well done!
surround yourself with people who REALLY want the same goal as you, hear only things that inspire the good in you, only things that strengthen the good in you, only things that give you hope that you will succeed despite the difficulties.
It is difficult to banish the darkness, but a small candle and another small candle will make the darkness retreat and finally disappear completely as if it were not there.
🥰 are you aware of the congregation in your area? You can reach out to the reform or Jewish community Center to speak with them also… I know because I grew in your area… south of BR, though I live in Mo now.
Same here
A non Jew, i realized that my behavior was manipulated by "idol" worship until I listened to Rabbi Manis Friedman Teaching. I was driven to serve G-d either in fear of escaping "hell" or a desire to go to "heaven". My perception got in the way to seeing G-d clearly. Thank G-d there is profound clarity in the Rabbi's Teaching. If one knows G-d the way HE wants to be known, it will certainly cause that individual to serve G-d better regardless of where in the World.
I agree with you. Rabbi Friedman helped me in my journey of not being religious…but knowing G-d rightly and existing vs living… I totally have a paradigm shift. Baruch Hashem!
Evocative
BEST CONVERSATION EVER
THANK YOU RABBI F
Over and over, our dear Rabbi Friedman stands up to tell our Father in heaven good reports about His children. We should all speak in such a way.
this is an excellent point - like Rev Levy Yitzchak, the Berditcher Rebber always defending the Jewish people
some people to sensitive, need your words in my life, be you Rabbi. Thank you.
I love the way Rabbi Manis always remains calm, collected and unperturbed by the vilifications in the Yeshiva world...
He's rock solid and it's so refreshing..!!
I wanted to let you know Rabbi Botton, in the video is on R Friedman's side, and has produced several videos defending him.
The point f this video was specifically to discuss the issue of reward and punishment, and through the course of the video the goal was accomplished.
all the best
thank you both ...rabbi manis friedman for explaining your opinion,,and thank you rabbi botton for your honest interview ..
you're welcome, I'm happy you liked the interview
all the best
Rabbi Manis Friedman is brilliant!
They said Steve Hawkins was as brilliant, however he was a atheist,
Shalom
@@byronumphress3805 R Friedman is not an atheist nor a heretic - maybe he is mistaken, but it would take a Torah scholar that knows Kabbalah and or Chassidut to conclude that.
We love you Rabbi Manis Friedman
Top five Rabbi of our generation
IF the Friday night candle is lit, 'not to trip over furniture', be careful not to tip over the lit candle....
Wow again Rabbi Yoni, this is priceless. In a way this is better than the classes themselves by Rabbi Friedman, mainly since he is clarifying many of the issues the religious world has with these amazing messages.
I’m blown away to see 2 huge rabbis who’ve put in there whole life’s to learn and research the torah and still opening a hard conversation about the core of Judaism and still learn every single day and searching for truth ❤❤❤
thanks for pointing this out, it is an excellent point
This is R' Botton -- I have spoken to lots of rabbis Chabad Litvish Sefardic rabbis that poskim Halacha and that could easily sit on a Beit Din - this is my conclusion based on all of the above:
1) His isn't an Am HaAretz.
2) Most of the clips created and promoted by those 2 rabbis have nothing to do with heresy.
3) The only issue is with the statement of reward & punishment - and this video clearly explains that R' Friedman believes in reward & punishment. His view is that the suffering that a person goes through for sin in today's generation is a rectification (sin causes suffering in gehinum (hell) etc.) But it isn't a punishment because people aren't rebelling willfully so they don't deserve punishment, but they do need to rectify the damage they caused to their soul and the world because of their sins.
4) Although the above isn't not exactly my view on this topic as I stated repeatedly in the video - Based on R' Friedman's statements in the video there is NO LONGER an issue with R' Friedman - he isn't a heretic, his statements are no longer heretical, he is calling what others call punishment rectification - now it is clear everyone agrees - they are just giving it two different terms.
All the best
😊😊😊
@leosiboni nice quotes all true but all I see here is that R Friedman is NOT a heretic he believes in reward and punishment, this is great news - now R Mizrachi and Reuven can stop and take down all their videos - great news
By the way. Even if the concept is right. And people do have distortions in hashkafa. But How do we know how much Hashem punishes for a meizid lehachis vs meizid leteavon etc. How do we know the levels of punishment?
Meaning even if it’s true that out attitude of Hashem should be more positive and loving father, who said it means we must minimize the punishment levels?
Who are we to define this?
Why can’t both parts be true?
@@yyc2540 I think the standard is to simply say there is punishment and it is fine. In a more subtle way I do see the sense in saying people deserve less punishment because of different circumstances - similar to the way R' Friedman puts it, and I think yes, both parts can be true.
I hope this is helpful - all the best
I fully get why he feels it important. In fact the greatest people of our history were the ones who knew they had to make a difference despite everyone going against them… Dovid, Rambam, Ramchal, Besht.
I am from the yeshiva system but I spent years studying these topics. There are sources to this and I feel its important to fix some common misconceptions. But I do wonder if R’ Friedman is saying accurate things. Is there an email address I can reach u?
Rabbi Manis has a lot of patience. ❤
Fascinating and deep discussion.
Sometimes God allows 'negative' events in our lives which can be considered as a punishment for our sins. But sometimes God allows 'negative' events where a person is innocent, and these events enable people to grow and mature in their faith and come out stronger. In both cases, God is always by our side as he loves his creation.
Sorry but I wasn't raised frum and I understand what that this Rabbi is trying to explain in his talks. It's amazing to me that people who consider to be Torah scholars can't understand it. Explaining the difference between punishment versus cause and effect and similar concepts with very helpful to my spiritual walk, and others that I have met who have listened to Rabbi Friedman, because they learned to approach Torah observance for the approach of doing it out of love, and then understood that the obligation part comes in in terms of responsibility to themselves and their greater society. If you love HaShem & other people on a mature level, you understand that responsibility and self-discipline are part of expressing that love.
I think the issue this Rabbi is having is more reflective of a problem within the frum world, rather than an issue with the message that Rabbi Friedman is getting across. No one who listens to Rabbi Friedman seriously, apart from a few internet trolls that make a lot of noise in the comments, other than that no one listens to him and thinks that HaShem says we can do what we want without consequence.
I'm sure that the person doing the interviewing is simply trying to play devil's advocate in order to give the Rav a chance to explain himself, but regardless of whose behalf he is speaking on, I think this is interview is very telling about how much difficulty people in the Orthodox community have in trying to get across the message of Torah to people outside of their own neighborhoods. This is why they're not affecting the change that they want 50 in the world especially where it regards non-orthodox Jews. You don't know what people need to hear, let alone how to explain it to them. Rabbi Friedman has figured it out and he's getting it across very well but you don't understand because you're not the type of person who needs to hear what he's saying. I say that in all respect.
I think any older person who seeks to look at life from a different prospective that he has always been taught will have a problem with this. Aspecialy those who have had a relationship with God their whole life based on what they thaught was the right way, it can feel wrong and anti Torah to change the way you look at God. For someone younger or less religious it is easier to recieve such a message because obviously they have not resonated so deeply with a different way of looking at it
My take is that some of the orthodox world lives according to fear of punishment- which is supposed to be the difference between Judaism and specifically Christianity, (which is also supposed to be about Hashem being a loving G_d), but has been misconstrued). Judaism is taking the same wrong path if people only keep mitzvahs out of fear.
The very people who teach about the discussion and discourse that is the Talmud don’t want to discuss and continue to dissect ideas and principles.
I am a christian who learns so much from videos like this. One thing that I have noticed is that this discussion and these differences are akin to Christians who are so divided between a punishing God and threat of hellfire and eternal punishment and people like me who believe in a God who is A God of love, mercy and Grace. It is a brave Christian who will admit that they do not believe in the hell many Christians believe in.
Hi, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. You are absolutely correct that the essence of how God relates to us is through love n]and mercy. Even Divine punishment, when necessary is not meant to punish, but to rectify and is ultimately rooted in God's love.
I hope this is helpful
Just to clarify: Both rabbis in this video agree that there is Reward & Punishment, as the Rambam states in his principles of Faith. Except that R' Friedman prefers to call punishment rectification. This is also true. I personally have no issue with using the term punishment, but saying rectification instead for the reasons R Friedman explained is also kosher. There is nothing heretical in this video - BUT I do admit the clips can be misleading. It is very possible the full video that the clips were taken from gave an entirely different message as the clips.
I hope this is helpful.
R Botton (the one doing the interview)
Serious question for the Rabbi. If a tinok shenishba doesn’t get punished. And aFFB gets punished aka rectification then how does the soul of a tinok shenishba get rectification without punishment? Doesn’t every soul need rectification regardless of knowledge or intent?? In Ex a shogeg. Or just to purify the soul
You're saying Rav Feldman is soiser that he misunderstood all the points he said Manis misunderstood and that he is a ksil
Does any source say an onesh isn't onesh - that's ridiculous.
Rambam says that we are punished even for things that are not written that hashem knows we knew inside our minds that we are responsible to do. Similarly we know that everyone is expected by hashem to do what he thinks we are capable of knowing right from wrong even if they are tinok shenishbus
We’re can I see the clip?
Rabbi Friedman is the Mesiachh of our generation
You are the only Rabbi i listen about 5 years now it has changed my Christian way of thinking about God
You are my mentor
Thank you Rabbi Friedman
Dear Rabbi Yitzchak Botton,
I have watched the whole of this video, and to be honest, if anything, this just makes the case against Rabbi Friedman stronger. I suggest you watch the whole think again with intellectual honesty, and this will become evident to you too. I don't want to write a whole "megilla" here but let's take one point. Most of the video is taken up with a discussion of his view that there is no punishment anymore (or we don't deserve punishment nowadays - not that the linguistics makes any real difference). It is clear that his position is unorthodox, and although you try to get him to agree to change his wording, he won't agree to do so. In the end you move on to another topic, but I think you need to be honest and accept that his approach to sechar v'onesh is not accepted by other great Rabbis and is at odds with what is written in the Seforim Hakedoshim.
There are many other examples. Maybe in another comment. Anyhow, you are trying too hard to make peace, and therefore you aren't allowing yourself to hear what he's saying. Best wishes to you and I suggest you discuss this with the greatest Rabbonim and real experts in chassidus.
Hello Reb Yitzchak. I did see your comments, but wanted to think it over and also to rewatch the video. There is a lot to write about this. In the meantime, I will await your updated comments. Best wishes, Refoel Dovid.
In a perfect world we would be able to speak about this.
1) You are correct that R' Friedman's approach is the clip (keep in mind the full video likely explains a lot more and may not even be problematic) is NOT the conventional way this concept is taught. But:
1) Rav David Moshe Valli a student or early teacher of the Ramchal says just about the exact same thing in his commentary to Tehillim. 2) The Me'Am Loez on Avot says something close to what he says but not as extreme.
2) (this is my main point) Towards the end of the Schar & Onesh part - R Friedman says he believes that a soul can suffer, go to hell, be reincarnated etc. - This point itself is a victory - because this means he is ABSOLUTELY not a heretic - and what he means in the statement that no one deserves to be punished today is kosher.
Because he says that he calls punishment rectification because people don't rebel against God today in the same way they did in earlier times. (though not the strongest rational it passes.
3) One can say that the clip is what turned a small issue into a total disaster - because it presents the statement with zero context. But I do accept that one can critical and criticize the isolated statement on its own - but I don't think one can use it to prove or conclude he is a heretic; and certainly not with a video explaining what he meant that is kosher - which this video accomplishes on some level.
4) There are real rabbis that judge him favorably - though not R Feldman - and I think both sides are valid - meaning some say he and his teachings are ok enough though not the ideal and others say his teachings are not ok because they are misleading and distort the standard way of teaching Judaism. But I think even R Feldman would accept he isn't a heretic, and the statements with his explanations are not actual heresy - but are problematic and R Friedman should retract them and stop teaching this way.
5) And in my opinion, after all the time and research I have done on this - I think R Friedman can minimize his teaching of this and focus on other important teachings and problem solved.
all the best
I thought that I posted an initial response. Am I mistaken?
Well in a nutshell there is a new recording from Rav Aharon Feldman Shlita where his opinion is given more clearly. Have you heard it? Why didn't he retract his prior statement after your interview and clarification several weeks ago?
By the way, are you using an alternative name here as it looks different?
Best regards.
So this is Rabbi Yitzchak Botton?
I was walking home on shabbos erev purim after shul. It was dark, and I got hit with a truck. This was the 1st day I wore tzizis... All my friends said "Nebech, Boruch. What did you do to Hashem!?" I said, fools. It was Hashem who saved me and made me get away from this accident with three broken ribs. And they were broken ecsectly were tzitzis did not touched.
Baruch Hashem! My condolences for the accident you suffered though. Something similar happened to me this year during the first day of Pesach, two weeks after I went through the Gerus. Except I wasn't hit by a truck, I was stabbed... And I'm convinced that it was Hashem who saved me from death.
glad your ok and Refuah shlema
@borisdolgin-ky900 ....amen
Thank you yoni for putting out these videos, this is an amazing conversation, this Rabbi challenges Rabbi manis, but in a very respectful and humble manner, which is the only way to get to the truth, as opposed to debate someone, and everyone becomes defensive,
So Please keep on sharing these kind of conversations of rabbi manis with other Torah scholars!
Especially those who challenge the Rabbi, so we get more clarity on these topics.
Thank you you again
40:30 mark: "There needs to be a revolution in the way Yiddishkeit is approached in the yeshivos."
The guy on the left sounds extremely smart, the way he comes to the conclusions of minute long conversations before they happen is incredible. Id love to hear him speak his own thoughts and ideology.
Thank you Rabbi Katz. It's sad that Rabbi Friedman has to defend himself and his teachings. A very interesting and thought provoking video. Rabbi Friedman was one of the first Rabbi's I listened to when I started my Jewish journey. The other two I don't listen to or watch anymore.
I feel the same way, when I began learning I was blown away by R' Friedman's teachings, so much wisdom, so clear, and so understandable. That's one of the reasons I wanted to do this video, to help.
all the best
It's not sad when a Rabbi has to defend his teachings. That's the only way to get to the truth.
@@chatisawasteoftime you are absolutely correct, I think at least for me and probably the original commentor it's the extremely harsh treatment of him that is what is so sad - there may be issues but statements coming out of their mouths - sad
Rabbi Friedman understands how to talk to this generation.. those that speak against him are just ignorant
Without being bias, the world is responding to HaShem due to charity in Rabbi Manis Friedman's Teaching, even the very lowest world. 😊
Excellent point you bring up - sadly this is mist by those that only focus on the possible issues in some of what he says.
Can't wait for the 2nd part!
Rabbi Manis....love you my brother.❤❤❤❤❤
Basically every Sin has 2 aspects. Defying god’s will and the actual sin itself.
In conclusion Merida = Punishment and rectification.
The actual sin = Rectification.
Same as obeying commandments. One is the obeying 2 is the actual good that takes effect. You receive 2 diff rewards.
For the obeying you get credit and for the good deed done it’s an automatic payment, the good deed itself pays off.
excellent clear explanation that adds to this discussion, thanks
Excellent guidance Thank you all 🙏🙏🙏👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻💜🪬🇬🇧🇮🇱🌎
Finally, this controversy is being addressed regardless of your opinion on the matter.
❤ let your voice be heard @ rabbi Manis Friedman 🩵
Here is a full quote of the passage from the Maaneh loshon book. “ … For who am I that You have brought me to this position. I AM NOT NEEDED BY YOU. It is only in Your great kindness that You created me, so that I could achieve merit. You brought me into being from nothingness.” in black & white letters.
Most rabbis that have properly learned the concept of Divine need agree that we need God and within creation God needs us - this is of course a self created need that doesn't detract from His perfection. I think R Friedman also accepts this - when he says we don't need him - he just wants to point out that our need depends on existing which itself is not an essential need, because God didn't need to create us.
This is not a new concept is has been written in books for at least 1000 years. The Shelah - R' Yehoshua Horowitz from he 1600 and he quotes older sources. This is also supported by Kabbalah that goes back to the giving of the Torah to Moshe.
I hope this is helpful
We are not needed on the level of human prespective. What Rabbi Friedman is saying is that we are needed in the pre-tzimtzum ratzon. Or to put it another way, we are not needed in and of ourselves because in and of ourselves we are not, but in the eternal mind of G-d we are there in the "Place" or else we could not exist. If He had not eternally thought of us we would not exist. So, His need of us is His need of Himself just under an unexpected (by us) aspect of His own etenral reality.
@@CraigKinsey-c3c What you say is very deep, and ultimately will be decided by a true sage if correct or not.
What is clearly stated in Chabad Chassidut - would be fine to teach - I am aware that it is taught that Torah and Israel are rooted in Atzmut - what exactly that means needs to be clarified.
all the best
Rabbi Friedman is the best, and I am a christian.
There is only one God, and His wisdom is for EVERYONE.
Thank God, today, through the internet, so many people around the world from all faiths are able learn and benefit from true teachings of God from the Torah, thanks to R' Friedman.
If he was the best you wouldn’t still be a Christian he’s wicked you shouldn’t listen to this Rabbi
❤
Whats Interessting i saw Rabbi friedmans video and understands exactly like you now talking and explaining it. And i am no jew even if didnt really know my true Religion but my heart for the jewish people since i am very young is with you❤ and my ancestors have a lot secrets so its hard to know everything i know that the grandpa of my grandpa moved to a village with his 2 brothers and nobody knows where they came from, no family, nothing, just this 3 young brothers that were very hard working people and never told anything about Religion so its really a secret in my family, we believe in God.
But shout-out to the Rabbi on the left for coming down asking his questions!!!!
Not being like rabbi Mizrachy who simply criticizes
That's amazing!!! I hope rabbi Mizrachy comes around too!!!
Beautiful discussion.
I want to do something because it is right. Not because of reward or punishment.
yes it's called doing out of pure loves - for the one you love - not doing it for yourself because you love yourself.
In the end Divine service done out of fear of punishment or the loss of reward is self-service it's all about me.
Sadly this foundation of life and a true connection with God is lost when you watch R Reuven scream against this video. Calling the rabbis in this video wrong and heretics - when anyone with eyes can see that he is wrong and guilty of shaming rabbis when it is NOT justified.
I will say respectful criticism of some of the things R Friedman says is justified.
Fantastic interview.!
Most young people need their eyes open today, it won't happen without suffering.. it humbles people and builds inner strength, character - unfortunately because we ate the bad fruit or eve did.
We're here to build inner strength and grow to become mature, life after life in hope we get it right the next time, I hope this is my last rodeo I'm so tired. We know when we have had a good day with all the bad days we have.. can't people tell the difference, we can't stay innocent forever or nothing would get done.. we would be just people pleasing all the time and respecting the wrong ones..it all happens on a bigger scale than we can comprehend, it's a struggle being a Jew you have to take the wheel..make them understand. Wish I could speak Hebrew I'm only getting half this conversation. There's always consequences to actions, maybe that should wake people up but some people never seem to learn. why would we get punished if we have free will.. gods keeping score isn't he in the book of life.
Surely the death penalty from god is not a literal death especially if you atone and repent for that sin murder idol worship etc god knows anyway who's really sorry a genuine person at fault will probably cause their own suffering in their minds.
Manis Friedman, ALWAYS, great! He doesnt need to agree, or listen, but he could learn alot!!!!!
Anything what is opposite to 13 principles of faith is heresy. When it is written that "God rewards the righteous and punishes the wicked" it was mean it how righteousness or wiskedness are define in Torah. We can understand that or not, approve it or not, but it is unchangeable. No matter if you are Jew or Gentile, if you are servant of Hashem, you are following His will unquestionably. So there are punishments and rewards, and people should accepted it. We live in generation where people are very infantile, spoiled and trivial in general and get annoyed by anything what potentially oblige them or limit them.
Religion shouldn't become "amusing" or "amazing" for people. It will give you beauty of life and insights unimaginable to average secular people, but you have to earn it. What would be the challenge and purpose if everybody are good as they are?
what you say is correct, but the point of this rabbi is NOT to go against the 13 principles - but that people don't fully understand the laws as they did in earlier times and should be judged with favor.
He says in the last answer that souls are punished but that the suffering is not to punish but to fix.
all the best
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 It's heresy. If you throw your lot with him just remember where Korach ended up.
@@Improvingonmywaysanddeeds 1) you are not a Rav and your opinion doesn't matter in this context.
2) Many rabbis say Rabbi Friedman is NOT a heretic - even if his statement on reward and punishment is problematic.
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 1) When someone is a heretic the halachah is they're litteraly extricating themselves from being part of Am Yisroel. Chas vchalila one should do such a thing, yet it's by this rationale(and forgive me because I mean no offense) that I am saying you sound very very goyish
2) Gedolei Yisroel have openly rebuked many of his statements as being 100% kefirah. GO AND LEARN SOMETHING, stop trying to teach when you obviously don't have the gumption at this very moment.
3) This is not a small matter. So again if you're not up to par STAY OUT OF IT. Not because you're not free to comment, but because you're comments thus far seem to be only adding to the problem.
4) "Reishis Chochmah Yiras HaShem." Now to everything there are many attributes. Fear of HaShem doesn't just mean "fear of separation from Him," though it's true that we all abhor the idea of being apart from Hakadosh Boruch Hu, it also means fear of the incredible "punishment" coming if we don't do teshuvah. Go read Mesilas Yesharim.
5) "In all my years I haven't found many things as beneficial for the soul as silence."
You talk far too much, and with far too much arrogance for someone who's utterly mistaken.
Brilliant, an eye-opener.
Lots of love to Manis Friedman ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Only our limited minds can’t comprehends that pre tzimtzum and after tzimtzum both always exist in God
One of the basic principles of true faith is that Only God existed without a beginning - creation has a beginning - where and how the two meet it taught in Kabbalah. So when you say post tzimtzum always existed, meaning has no beginning - what exactly do you mean?
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764A difficult thing to elaborate on in a comment section. But essentially the revelation of Atzmus. The madrega of Techiyas Hameisim (after Gan Eden). There are a few Maamarim that explain it, but it’s essentially growing beyond a place of thinking to a place of being. And the Mitzvos & Torah, when seen as connected to His Essence (pre tzimtzum) than become a channel to remain connected at that level.
It’s also a level beyond Schar & Onesh. Since it’s after a person gets their schar & onesh & is on a personal level of Chaim Nitzchi (all of which are stages in holiness/ expansion of consciousness).
At least this is how I understand the many writings and have come to experience it myself.
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 also, props for a diplomatic approach you took in all this. It shows great character to try to make peace between sages. A beautiful thing to be put on public display
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 a simpler explanation to the above: if you’re beyond time, than you contain within you both time and no time. Not just no time. If you’re beyond creation. You contain within you creation and no creation. Ein Sof can be interpreted as Endless Nothing or No End (infinite). So connecting with and being a channel for infinite takes you outside the experience of self & other. There can be no reward when you are embodying all of reality. And ultimately, that’s what God wants. A limited creation that can hold within itself infinity. And the Jewish people, Torah, and God unite at that level (when we love each other & keep His Mitzvos). Thats how the Chabad Rebbeim explain Redemption.
@@mendysel thank you I appreciate your kind words
all the best
I’m at 32:48, and the statement of if there’s no punishment or reward if the frum person is going to go eat a cheeseburger. A person shouldn’t want to. The positive commandments are our “nutrients” the negative ones are “poison”. If we go with that mind frame, we can look at keeping the Torah as something that is good for us. And we can all understand the matzav of doing things that can be harmful that aren’t necessarily aveiros
"For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." 😇❤️🔥
I would love to see a live debate between rav Mizrachi and rav Manis Friedman like they did in Talmudic times. It would be very interesting and informative. I also struggle to accept some statements especially considering what the great Ramchal wrote in Derech Hashem about punishment and suffering. Any chance to organise such a debate? I’m sure tIm not the only one.
To debate both sides need to be on the same level of knowledge - and though I am a fan of R Mizrachi and he gives good lectures R Friedman is a towering Giant in Torah knowledge and Chassidut and Kabbalah - it wouldn't be much of a debate
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 I dont follow your logic my friend. I like to listen to both Chabad Rabbis and R Mizrachi as well. If Rabbi Friedman is a giant then it should be so easy to win the debate. R Mizrachi also has tens of thousands of followers and would be enlightened to get closer to the essence of truth.
@@elisheva7772 here is some logic - what would be the point of winning - when the other person has been insulting and screaming at him for years and he doesn't fully understand these matters that should be left to leading American rabbis - there is know point in talking with him
The above video is different - though the 2 rabbis disagree on point there is respect from one to the other
all the best
@@yaakovyosef1631 The logic is simple my friend, it’s not about which rabbi win, it’s for many people like me who want to listen and decide for ourselves. R Misrachi is not the only one who disagrees with some statements in regards to punishment. Rabbi Alon Anova is another rabbi. And in my first comment the Ramhal who explained the seven reasons for suffering in his well known holy book Dereh Hashem (The way of God) I am for one and a few of my friends would like to know and want to get to the truth, as both arguments are convincing and there are contradictions . We shouldn’t be afraid of a debate as there are many people who listen to lectures and genially are confused.
@@elisheva7772 Hello, this is R' Botton. I read your comments and felt the sincerity in them. Here is a partial attempt at answering your questions:
keep in mind there is more than 1 way to look at this issue
1) Respectful criticism of R' Friedman is valid because the clips on a basic level (it is possible/likely that the full classes are not or less problematic) can be seem as contradicting the principle of reward & Punishment.
2) Another view is that R Friedman speaking to non-religious people was creating a soft entry point for people that do NOT accept or want to believe in a God that punishes for the things written in the Torah - so he wants to de-emphasize the idea of punishment - because many people simple won't hear it.
a) even for this reason one cannot lie - so the question becomes is he teaching something heretical.
Some rabbis (not RUclips rabbis their opinions don't count so much including mine) that are real Jewish leaders or community leaders that are expert in Jewish Law like Rav Aaron Feldman has said in a video it is heretical to say there is no reward & punishment and he considers the clips to do that.
Other rabbis one a Gadol of Chabad qualified to be head of a Beit Din - so he is on the highest level - not as famous in the yeshiva world as Rav Feldman but maybe as big of a rav - doesn't feel it is heresy but seems that way. In his opinion r Friedman does this on purpose to draw people in and then explains his real point. This Rav doesn't approve of the tactic but says R Friedman is NOT a heretic and though not ideal won't criticize him publicly (possible because he knows R Friedman is NOT a heretic and he is speaking to people that are not religious anyway - so no real harm is being done).
Another big rabbi and expert in Jewish law agrees R Friedman is provocative and controversial but is fine with what R Friedman is doing because he doesn't mean at all that there is no punishment - and even the clips can be understood that way. Granted this rabbi is choosing to interpret the clips in R Friedman's favor - but he is doing this as a expert in Jewish Law - so it is powerful and creates a valid position that R Friedman is fine as he is and the clips are fine.
Another Rav feels that only with the explanation in this video - that there can be suffering for the soul in hell - but R' Friedman calls it RECIFICATION NOT PUNISHMENT - is R' Friedman ok, and without this explanation the statements seem heretical and are problamitic.
Not that it's important I would follow the "Gadol of Chabad" and "Another big rabbi and expert in Jewish"
My opinion is also that the 2 youtube rabbis that insult ad scream at and about R Friedman are wrong in their tactics and show that they are not qualified to be involved in this at all. 1) because they include things that are not problematic in their criticism and 2 they do not know enough about the subjects they are screaming about.
R Reuven's behavior is not in line with Torah and he insults both kosher and sometimes not so kosher rabbis which makes him even worse - he is a self-appointed rabbi that is not qualified to even speak on most of these matters and his opinion means nothing. R Mizrachi is a little better - but he shouldn't be making lists of un-kosher rabbis - he should simply give his opinions to more qualified rabbis and let them take care of things, so in this regard he is also speaking in a place that he should be quiet.
I realize someone can accuse me of doing the same as them with this comment but I feel I am mainly explaining that which qualified rabbis have told me, and a little of what I feel they agree with.
I hope this helps
All the best
It would be helpful if when you are using jewish terms, could you use English term also. This will help us understand the the depth of the language and discussion.
you are absolutely correct - this talk was on a more advanced level. Look up this title if you want to see these 2 rabbis talking with everything in English:
2 Rabbis Drink Coffee & Set the Record Straight
Rabbi Taub: "There is a disproportionate over representation of Jews among Rabbis" 😅
Iyov (Job) suffered but wasnt punished
By thinking or leading to what is being asked has us thinking; "IF learning and holding TRUE Emes and knowledge" = ASK questions on the meaning VS. what is tought to be implied"" and my emotional reaction. The statement is right and yet the Torah is full of punishment and Olam Habba Reward and let us use this knowledge to get ourselves to the level and not be afraid to get it right!
Hi, I liked reading your comment, but not sure what exactly you want to say, can you explain
@@divinewisdomliveabetterlif3511 use our mind, don't take anything at face value but the Torah itself and then oh yeah commentary is needed to clarify almost all of that too :)
@@kosherwinespiritreview7772 thanks for the clarification :)
I just don't understand who gave Rabbi Mizrachy or Rabbi reuvan the authority to question such an esteemed rabbi.
no one - they gave it to themselves
Where is the ahavas Isroel? There are some derogatory terms they use for secular Jews which upsets me. No one is perfect. The secular Jew that one of these Rabbis calls “scum” may be 1000% times better of a person than he is. I am a secular Jew who is very spiritual and I’m trying to learn as much as possible from various Rabbis. From my understanding, the 2nd temple was destroyed because of Jews not getting along with each other. October 7th occurred maybe for the same reasons as some Rabbis point out. Can’t we just stop hating and start loving one another? Even if you don’t see eye to eye. Sit down and have a discussion instead of bashing the other. Oy vey 🤦♀️
Every Jew has an obligation to protest heresy, especially if it comes from a Rabbi who purports to teach Torah to the masses.
@@chatisawasteoftime They've gone far beyond protesting heresy
there are things in the video clips that have nothing to do with heresy. and the way they do it, I don't know how a loving Jew can speak like that, and all in the name of God - and His honor. I don't buy it.
LOOK AT HOW a gadol handled it - Rav Aharon Feldman said what he had to say but was careful to say theat the idea was heresy he didn't call R Friedman even once a heretic in that video. And he even went out of his way to speak nice about him. that's a Torah Scholar That's someone that loves his fellow Jew - Why don't those other 2 behave like Rav Feldman? What they've done may be a chillul Hashem.
@@liliyalyubomirsky3 you are right about what you say, keep up the great work.
and see my comment to @chatisawasteoftime
all the best - you have no idea how happy you make God I'm sure more than many of us.
Punishment is really just an opportunity for Tikkun...
Rav is revealing deep secrets of Torah!!
Shma Yisrael!
Come and See
Psalm 18:26
עם נבר תתברר ועם עקש תתפתל׃
With the pure You show Yourself pure, | And with the perverse You show Yourself a wrestler,
It is insane to think that a creator that created us would create us to be punished, knowing that we would not listen to him his “commandments”
I hear you, but the truth is God created us to be rewarded NOT punished. The proof is that before the good deed is done God wants to reward us - before the sin is done God doesn't want to punish us - even after the sin is done God is pained when we are punished. There is a lot more to say about this.
all the best
With regard to the statement that "G-d needs us," we can see that the Kabbalah explains that in order for Zeir Anpin to gain complete mochin, there has to be an aliyah of M"N from the Nishmot Yisrael to Malchut and that sets up the cascade of aliyot until the Ein Sof, and the hamshacha of Mochin back down to Z"UN D'Atzilut. So, our Torah and Mitzvot, in effect, build up the expression of Hashem (in the aspect of Zeir Anpin/Malchus), to give bounty to all worlds. In that sense, Hashem "needs" us. Of course, this is relative to the system of the Olamot, and not talking about the Atzmut (as far as I understand).
Your explanation is excellent and correct. R' Botton has a few videos on this topic that explains the same points on these channels Hidabroot, and Divine Wisdom: Live a Better Life
Your comment is exactly the way Kabbalah explains this concept, excellent job. If you search the video title "God needs" "Heretical" with my name - you should find a bunch of similar videos on this topic - there are 2 different videos of only me speaking that explain for the most part what you say in your comment.
kol hakavod
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 Thanks. I will check it out. כל טוב
@@tiferetyisrael1840 thank you. כל טוב
I don't understand that rabbis that teach torat Ari'zal, claim the statement "God needs us" is not true. No need to go deep in this study, the basic hakdamot talk about how human kind is deeply involved in the process Ein Sof started..
Thank you for this discussion!!! I guess the big question that remains is why do people who go through terrible suffering go through it? If its not a punishment and even if you say its a tikun, thats one horrible tikun like whats happening with the hostages or Jews that were murdered on October 7, etc....is the answer that its something that only Gd understands and we simply can not? In the face of such suffering, its difficult to accept without some sort of an explanation, and perhaps its natural and easiest for people to say its a punishment for something, because if its just suffering for no good reason i feel like it somehow makes it even worse
thanks for commenting. This is the way I se it:
1) Traditionally Reward and punishment is a result of God wanting to give a real reward, so without punishment if we sin, the reward for doing good wouldn't be as real - there must be a balance.
2) The idea of tikun instead of punishment is more just a different way of saying the same thing. R' Friedman's point is that today people aren't really rebelling so it's more the effect of sin without rebellion then sin with rebellion which would be more harsh - but I think most people will just call it punishment.
3) About how harsh punishment can be - it is a very hard question to address - in particular today and to less religious/more secular Jews. And yes you are correct - some of this is above us and only God knows.
all the best
Read THE GREAT PARTNERSHIP by the late great UK Head Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks
Serious question for the Rabbi. If a tinok shenishba doesn’t get punished. And a FFB gets rectification aka punishment and if indeed rectification = Punishment then how does the soul of a tinok shenishba get rectification without punishment? Doesn’t every soul need rectification regardless of knowledge or intent?? In Ex a shogeg. Or just to purify the soul
Tinok shenishba is a shogeg not oines.
He’s just saying that even what we call meizid is really just shogeg.
Maybe one reason people think anything meizid is punished because Bais Din technically would punish for any meizid even for teyavon. But we don’t realize that’s only with warning + witnesses.
You ask a very good question. According to the Rambam, as explained by the Lubavitch Rebbe, someone raised secular that is unable to accept following Torah and Mitzvot because of the way he was raised is exempt from judgement and punishment because it is beyond his/her ability to choose otherwise. This seems to me to apply to a Jewish court - meaning they would be exempt from any of the punishments an earthly Jewish court in impowered to decree.
Regarding what happens to the soul, I think is is reasonable to think that God may also pardon them from any judgements/punishments in heaven - but it is very possible that the soul may need to come back to the world to fulfill mitzvot that it never did, and also possible to fix things.
I will try and look into this more for more information for you.
all the best
@@yyc2540 NO a Tinuk ShNishba is an Ones from the Rambam and the Lubavitcher Rebbe explains it this way
If you see the gemora or I think even the Mishnayos, it is clear and explicit that tinok shenishba is a shogeg and “brings a korban” once he becomes aware. No one disputes this. These are clear gemoras in shabbos and krisos.
Which Rambam are you referring to?
Yes I agree that bain Adam lamakom Hashem looks at everything. Only he has the ability to take everything into account . Bais din works differently. (For example is someone does Teshuva Bais din still punishes. But he won’t get Kares which is direct from heaven.)
The rebbe may have meant that today’s tinok shenishbas are considered ‘ones’ in shomayim... I don’t believe he’s arguing on open chazal.
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 Thank you for responding. I like the idea you mention that Reincarnation is the rectification for a Tinok shenishba. As we understand that reincarnation is Yesurim for the soul a form of punishment but for the sake of rectification, If this is the case for a TS where chazal say he doesn’t get punished this would imply that a FFB does get punished beyond just rectification unlike R Manis is saying. And The idea that that R Manis mentioned we are all tinok shenishba then how will reincarnation help, if we are only coming back into the same situation of a TS again? And if you were to say that we aren’t all considered a TS the answer for a tinok shenishba it would seem that a FFB doesn’t get reincarnated? Again we differentiating between the FFB and TS in the tikkun. And hence the FFB punishment is real and not just rectification like a TS.
I don’t know about old generations
But in todays times it’s clear to me
That punishment is a simple consequence of our actions
If I wake up late to work and miss the bus by a minute
Then lose my job for being late to work
Is not a punishment from g-d
It’s simply a consequence of my actions
We have clear choices that are all ours
G-d is not involved in our choices
He only prepares our next move based on our decisions /choices
Now you may understand the multiverse lol
@RabbiYoniKatz i'm curious of what Rabbi Friedman thinks about Rabbi Yehuda Petaya 's book Minhat Yehuda ?
I'm sure that he would accept and agree with it - Chabad is largely based on the Kabbalah of the Arizal.
Why is he not reading from Manis's book or playing back the video with his statement?
that takes time, and there are maybe 10 videos out there with all that already.
@@rabbiyitzchakbotton3764 Smells of obfuscation. If you're having a discussion about things he said, those statements need to be quoted and front and center of the discussion. It's worth the time.
@@chatisawasteoftime I didn't see the part about his book, I didn't read his book. The issues as far as I now are from the clips, the book is a new thing, and like I said the clips are well known., not sure what smells over here, he agreed to discuss the issue.
@@chatisawasteoftime did you see this response with some comments I added to it?
I didn't see the part about his book in your comment, and I didn't read his book. The issues as far as I know are from the clips, the book is a new thing, and like I said the clips are well known., not sure what smells over here, he agreed to discuss the issue., that shows he is willing to face criticism from someone that doesn't scream and insult him all the time.
@@chatisawasteoftime check where it is coming from - maybe it is you? It surely isn't from the rabbis answer
I love this. Pls make the same arrangement between R Manis and Rabbis Yaron Reuven and R Mizrachi. I think that if bH it works out for peace and goodness it would be an amazing Kidush Hashem!!
it would be great - but sadly it doesn't seem possible - there needs to be at least some decency from the other two for this to happen.
Also when you are guilty before a debate what's the point of debating.
NO MORE DIN!! The Torah says do not hit a grown child (as discipline) because he may hit back -thats "lifnei iver." Hashem keeps His Torah, so no more "hitting"-we are too old for that. He must send Moshiach now!!
nice idea, obviously said as a defending lawyer in court.
Beautiful teaching in "this age" coming
Another Q here.
We find punishment thruout the Torah that doesn’t seem like rectification alone. For example. Moshe Rabeinu was not allowed into EY as a punishment as specifically written… We can all agree that it wasn’t deliberate, So What rectification was there for moshe by not allowing him into EY ( cause and effect as mentioned ) Vs say breaking a hand that did the deed or something of the sort, how was not allowing him into EY a rectification vs just an average punishment other then choosing the one thing he was looking frwrd to for many years??? Where’s the cause an effect on this one?
It musta been a punishment because a man of his status should have known better even tho it wasn’t deliberate, but it couldn’t be a punishment of rectification alone, where’s the rectification shown here? We find rectification with midda kinged midda makes sense. What was the mida kneged midda here?
No one deserves punishment? So I can do what I want with no conquence. And if there is consequence then it in undeserved?
Fear of punishment, combined with love and awe of H.keeps us on the straight and narrow. Reality.
Excellently explained, and absolutely correct.
BUT that doesn't mean that when someone's child is on trial or their brother, or father - or you and me for that matter - YOU DON'T PLEAD WITH GOD TO BE PARDENED, EVEN THOUGH YOU ARE GUILTY.
Never forget this fact - God will NOT be angry when you plead for the wicked to be forgiven - In fact, the opposite is true. When Avraham prayed to God to heal the wicked Avimelech - God listened to Avraham, and Avimelech was healed. Now here is a - Argumentum a fortiori (look it up if you don't know what this is) - If God accepted the request for the wicked Avimelech to be pardoned for his sins and be miraculously healed from sickness - then how much more so will God Almighty answer us when we plead that God pardon the wicked and spare them from the harsh punishments of strict judgement, and instead have mercy on them, as a father has mercy on his own child.
In fact a great RABBI from the 1700's writes the exact same idea that R Manis Friedman is getting yelled at for saying as a request - in his commentary on Tehillim, Psalms.
Rabbi Moses David Valle (circa 1697 - December 17, 1776) was a Jewish biblical commentator, physician, scholar, and Kabbalist from Italy. He lived in the city of Padua and was a disciple of the Ramchal, Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzato and (Rabbi Menachem Azariah da Fano).
This is a quote from his commentary of Psalms, Tehillim. My Lord,(please) don’t distance Yourself from me: REQUEST from God (Divine Presence) not to distance Itself from us during the time of exile because of our sins. For all of them (our sins) were committed (as if) they were done by force; because we are in the lowest of states spiritually and physically weak and scattered among the non-Jewish nations and people we live among. And even worse, we are constantly pursued by the evil spiritual forces that entrap us in exile, thus causing us to sin. On the contrary, it is fitting that they (the Jewish people in exile) be forgiven and not punished. Just as you assured them through His servants the prophets, “Because I will forgive those that remain (in exile).
To many times I have heard and read sages use definition of words that do not match the orginal definitions in the orginal torah. Nefesh is the body/soul but then I see teachers say the soul is not the body but something non tangible. All these changes in definitions is why we have the current misunderstandings in Judaism. THERE NEEDS TO BE A RESTORED ANCIENT UNIFORM CODE OF TORAH JUSTICE. Yes or yes?
"G-d needs us" is technically true outside of your perspective. G-d is asking you for help with something in this particular time. G-d wants you to fulfil something. You are the chosen people are you not? You need to make something whole. Rabbi Manis Friedman spoke the answer but you both missed what it referred to and what you need to do in regards to it.
24:31 in my opinion, each individual should do their diligence, to inquire and consider the context of what Rabbi says, instead of criticising in ignorance by opinion…. Not doing so is a form of lashan hara, as well as misrepresenting another due to their lack of understanding…. Whether that person is a rabbi or not.
The biggest Rabbis in the world in the US and in Israel rebuked Rabbi Friedman openly are you saying that the biggest Hahamim who walks this earth are ignorant ?
In the Torah We find often. The concept of Punishment is שיראו ויראו they shall see and be afraid. When u punish for example same as a court would punish to show an example. That’s not for rectification alone.
I think the action has 2 effects, 1 as you stated, while at the same time it is also a tikun - (keep in mind everyone agrees that punishment is a tikun, on this there is no argument)
If indeed any time a person sins and goes against Gd it’s only because as you quoted in the beginning that means he doesn’t really know God. Then How then is it possible that there ever be punishment for going against Gd? I’m asking in the case scenario where Rabbi Manis agrees there is punishment not just rectification?
As We do see countless punishments in the Torah whether it was Jews or non Jews.
As quoted עד שנכנס בו רוח שטות… Yet u agree if deliberate there is punishment. Wouldn’t that be contradictory?
I think R Freidman feels that punishment would only be applicable when someone sins willfully, and only when the person is a clear thinking man on a high level of responsibility, like the case of Amalek, or the Kohen Gadol that turned to heresy.
I think you ask a good question - I think it is similar to the question of the rabbi on a beit din in this video that I mentioned.
From my perspective if the rabbis are telling the holy Rabbi Mannis, That he went too far that means he's going in the right direction.🎉
most of the many rabbis if fact almost all of them (well over 25) all agree with the main idea R' Manis says about need. It is actually a well known and accepted idea discussed for over 1000 years. It just is something people are not used to hearing - and they are confused about God's essence and Godly revelation.
Reread THE GUIDE FOR THE PERPLEXED by Moses Maimonides
Children or immature people want punishment. I'm not a child. I want to be corrected and disciplined if I do something wrong. Correct me don't torcher me. God wants us to mature.
Beautiful!
25:26 the holocaust, the Rebbe is right, it was not punishment… exile is a form of punishment, but yet not a punishment… it’s a consequence…. And was for good… of other nations as well as ourselves.
The holocaust and pogroms, were due to our being the suffering servant, it was not due to our sins but the sins of the other nations.
Does everyone agree with the Rebbe on the holocaust? There’s a book called ‘a divine madness’ by Rabbi Avigdor Miller…
@@yyc2540 I am aware of the book but didn't read it = does R Miller agree with the Rebbe or Rav Shach that I recall call is a punishment.?
28:53 what if the punishment is ‘not seeing the reason’ or answer? Then that is a self inflicted punishment.
So we are tools to Hashem. He is the Carpenter and we are the wood, the hammer, the nails, the screws, etc..Is that correct?
I think there is truth to what you said, but at the same time from different perspectives other terms would also be correct - like we have a relationship with God etc.
But in these terms we understand how Hashem needs us to achieve His vision
@@celinefitoussicarmona1593 you are correct
Many people who are mentally strong can withstand a limited perception of truth. But a person who is in pain and mentally not strong and is told God will punish them with pain can be devastated and will stop wanting to live. Limiting truth can be very harmful
Adopting proactive behavior, rather then reactive.
Truth is truth. We can't not say truth just to please people
There are many angles to the truth. We are supposed to use the ones that will bring people closer. Not further.
So sometimes it can be a lie to say something “true”. Because that’s not what’s supposed to be said for that situation.
Some “truths” are also misunderstood and are therefore wrong to say.
Another Q. How do you explain rectification when we find חרון אף quoted many times in the Torah. And not just by מרידה even by Just תאוה. Like by קברות התאוה. As well as we find אל נקמות ה׳
RABBI TELLS US WHEN WE THINK WE HAVE ALL THOSE USELESS NEEDS,MANNY NEEDS OF OUR YOUTH IN LATE LIFE SEAMS TO HAVE BEEN FOOLISH. THE NEED OF WHAT GOD WANTS FROM US 630 MAKES MORE CENSE
Thanks a lot!!
What is a King without his people?
not a king
Consequences are Truth. This is Love. Always keep the pure Jewish neshama separate from free will choices that include error.
R MF and R David Aaron are both hard pedaling love, because too many Jews are lost and they won't return if Din is front and center. Love has to be put front and center, and slowly it will be understood that Din is also love
beautiful point - I think we can find support to this from Hillel in the second story in tractate Shabbos (the one before the famous story of the convert standing on 1 foot) He converted someone that only wanted to accept the written Torah Not the oral Torah - Hillel accepted him and found the right way and time to show him that he needs to accept the Oral Torah and he did - look up the gemara there are 3 stories with a nice ending (Tractate Shabbat 31a,b).
Read Ezekiel chapter 39 from the Tanakh. God is very clear that He punished Israel for their sins against Him, and He hid His face from them. But He will have mercy upon them.
I agreed with everything Rabbi Friedman has said, even before this tho;but I thought that maybe he should rephrase the word they got so hurt about it 😂 instead of so much light that he came out with, which I think it was genius pure ruah hakodesh and maybe people got blinded with so much light 🤷♂️ Rabbi Yaron Reuven what do you think? We must change is mashiach times 🥰BHA
שאדדיני😍
How to say destiny in Hebrew ?
mazal
i think people are getting caught up in the language of "needs"...in English.
A creator, even if He is perfect, REQUIRES a relationship. Otherwise, He is alone. And as apparent, He doesn't want to be alone.
I don't understand what's so problematic here.
I’m at around the 20 minute mark and the discussion of punishment or tikkun, however if we’re talking about where we judge the person as an oneis and he is patur, then does he still need a tikkun. Granted we should strive to fix ourselves so we can remove ourselves from the status of oneis but in those areas that are beyond our bechira, there wouldn’t be a need for tikkun
This is an excellent question. I recall someone else asking this question in the comments. I think that you assumption is correct about actions beyond ones bechira; but I think that the soul can still be missing the positive mitzvot that were never fulfilled; and a lack of reward can also be seen as an onesh. Also based on a Midrash and Chassidic stories it is possible that a soul can require tikun for oneis (though I need to research this more): 1)Moshe's mouth was burned because he fed from a non-Jewish woman as a baby (not sure of exact source). 2) There are stories that reiterate the same idea of a child that comes into the world to fix a similar thing.
kol tuv
I want jewsh people to Feel confident about their Religious Rights , customs , , uniforms , rituals , menora , yeshiva etc etc etc
that's great
Many in the Yeshivishe Velt are unready to make the paradigm shift, they still linger on the centrality of punishment.. what is the source of this obsession.
the source is many verses in the Torah, teachings in the Talmud and Zohar, even Tanya talks about punishment. But as we get closer to the final redemption were come closer to a new reality that will go beyond reward and punishment. I actually mention that this same level was granted to the Jews that left Egypt.
all the best
R Manis doesn't always qualify his general (often dramatic) statements.sometimes this occasionally gets him into "trouble" (misunderstanding). He needs to take this into account and explain better
that's what this video purpose was for, for him to explain more.
Also, explaining subtleties and nuances in order to address common misconceptions in the community can be a wonderfully important thing.
But when the vast majority of listeners think they’re hearing the basics and fundamentals, harping on these points is misleading people.
So even if the teacher isn’t saying heresy the listeners are hearing heresy.
@@yyc2540 yes there is the possibility of people understanding things the wrong way, but keep in mind these talks are for non-religious and non-Jews - so in almost all cases the gain is much greater than the loss.
And I don't think a religious person that has learned Torah will walk away from his videos and do sins.
Che dio vi benedica grandemente tutti ora e in eterno gloria eterna ad ascen gloria eterna al messia nei secoli dei secoli senza fine amen alleluyia
Another Q for the Rabbi.
Are u saying that say for ex. Hitler won’t get punished only rectification, What rectification is there even possible for a man the likes of Hitler?
As we find with Titus how his punishment was prescribed and so forth… and ofc we all heard of Sh’eol Tachtis that’s never ending? As well as kaf hakela as some believe is endless.
Rabbi mannis is correct. We are so obsessed with other yiddens judgments. Look at pirkey avos for guidance on judgments of others
They loot every Sunday here 🧹🧼🛞🛞.
Outside of time is outside of the cube created by the Tetragrammaton. No spirit, no elements, only Father Light.