Unfortunately I think the easiest solution is changing how diabolic ritual functions for destro, ie: spending shards starts the ritual but spending shards does not reduce the time before the ritual expires. It would be a flat 13 seconds or something like that between each summon, and then change the choice nodes to fit that time frame, and untie them from shards. That OR tie ritual to non-shard spending spells, like "casting incinerate has X% chance to start a diabolic ritual, each additional incinerate cast increases the likelihood of a diabolic ritual by X%" and then tune down incinerate in order to not incentivize casting it more than would be ideal.
Blizzard will have to tweak Rain of Fire and Chaos bolt thoroughly. Perhaps they should start by making Chaos Bolt apply a bigger reduction to the Demonic Art timer; you spend 3 seconds to spend 2 shards/seconds, where ROF only needs a global to eat 2 or 3 shards/seconds.
*sigh* My destro lock keeps swinging from being my primary alt in TWW to being something I don't bother touching. WTF are they even doing over there? I've never once gotten so many highs and lows from a pre-expansion runup (for like all the things I play, not just 1 class or spec). Idk how they're gonna launch this without some significant issues at this stage with how wonky everythings been.
This is literally your own problem. It’s beta. If you hang on every tuning pass like you are, this is the outcome. Don’t even think about this tell heroic week.
This is literally your own problem. It’s beta. If you hang on every tuning pass like you are, this is the outcome. Don’t even think about this tell heroic week.
This is so frustrating to see. How do they not understand that the main thing the rof is helping is just going through shards for the dia. rit procs. Its not the shard gen but the attractiveness of cb in st being the issue :/
Hellcaller: instead of buffing chaos bolt and nerfing incinerate ~ have like a arbitrary chance to double cast a chaos bolt. Part of the Hellcaller flavor, one of the talents could include a ~67% chance to cast an additional chaos bolt. Essentially this double the damage periodically without outright doubling the base damage. This also has the benefit of not interfering with Diabolist. There would likely also need to be additional balancing but it's an idea.
Might sound like a bit of a noob here, but can't they make RoF not spend shards (as it is a weak hitting spell anyway) and instead put the shard cost on Cataclysm?
It's also about cast time. CB is super slow outside of the Conflagrate buff. Unless it suddenly did 10x the damage it would likely still be better to cast RoF as it is instant cast.
What's the fix here, then, buff chaos bolt and nerf Rancora scaling on CB to compensate to fix hellcaller? Then change Diabolic Ritual to not reduce duration based on soul shards but by a flat amount from each spell that can be tuned; say 3s for CB and 1.5s for ROF?
I have an idea on how to fix Destruction Warlocks casting Rain of Fire in single target in the War Within Beta. I don't think this is a problem that can be fixed by adjusting numbers, I think this needs mechanical changes to fix. -Revert the shard generation changes from the last beta hot fix. -Remove the shard cost on Rain of Fire. Give it a cool down equal to it's duration. Change the Inferno talent to generate Soul Shard Fragments when Rain of Fire deals damage to at least three targets who are afflicted with Immolate or Wither. -Change the Pyrogenics talent to increase the damage of Rain of Fire based on how many Immolated / Withered targets it deals damage to up to a cap, adjust Rain of Fires damage so it's not worth casting in one or two target fights. -Make Cataclysm baseline for Destruction, remove the cool down but make it cost three soul shards to cast and make its cast time the same as Chaos Bolt. -Change Fire and Brimstone to trigger after you cast Cataclysm and last for roughly eight seconds instead of having it active all the time. Increase the amount of damage that the cleaving incinerates do. I don't think the cleaving incinerates should generate extra shard fragments because the Diabolic Embers talent exists. This probably isn't a necessary change just one I'd like to see. -Change Burn to Ashes, Chaos Incarnate and the Touch of Rancora talent in the Diabolist hero talent tree to effect Cataclysm instead of Rain of Fire. So the idea is that a Destruction warlock starts an AoE pull (3+ targets) with Cataclysm, casts Rain of Fire on top of it and uses the Fire and Brimstone empowered Incinerates to generate shard fragments to cast more Cataclysms. With Cataclysm having the same cast time as Chaos Bolt (and proper tuning) this should make Chaos Bolt the go to spender for single and two target fights (with Havoc) and Cataclysm the AoE shard spender. It should also help slow down the shard generation / spending of destruction. I don't know if these changes could be implemented, tested and balanced in time for the War Within launch or even if these would actually help. It could make things worse. I'm not a game developer, just a geek with too much time on his hands.
That would be amazing but unfortunately they are fixed on the RoF spam playstyle. Hopefully they change their minds later, but it's a little late for a rework like that now.
Make cataclysm baseline. Make hellfire baseline - add talents that increase bolt count and usable while moving. Put short CD on rain of fire. Increase brimstone talent % Fun
@@johnmkryan2751 ah okay then np 🤣 I thought hellfire.. what a blast from the past 😬 Edit: I should have realised what you meant now that I re-read it. I was so tired when I first replied that I missed the quite obvious part about the bolts.. that should have made me realize it's not about hellfire since it has no bolts 😆
@Kalamazi when the problem is not the damage of RoF but the speed we can spend shards, might it be an idea to up the speed for chaos bolt like bring back madness? Or just doubleing the "Improved Chaosbolt" talent ( 20% and 1 second)
What if they just made Chaos Bolt instant every other one free with no cast time? Or someway to drop the same amount of shards using chaos bolt instead of using rain of fire.
I said it in the last video and I'll say it here again. Changing the dmg of warlock spells or the shard generation does nothing to fix the problem. The problem is that just the act of spending shards generates a lot of destros dmg in st. Personally I think the easiest fix would be to revert the Avatar of Destruction back to an pet with an immolation aura and melee attacks instead of spamming chaos bolts.
Ik this might be daft but couldn't it be fixed by making chaos bolt instant cast seeing as it should be the proper single target spender we should be casting
@@gummie3rd547 it doesn't need to be instant. It just needs to be the same cast time as the GCD. Then you can cast both the same amount in a given time if you are turreting. If you have to move you can shadowburn/rof for less dmg but some mobility. Should work.
@kalamazi What if they bring back madness? its a buff to chaos dmg , plus shorter cast time and plus you are forced to use chaos bolt to keep it up i'd say madness should be back with 6-7 sec duration.
Blizzard has no idea what they are doing, these nerfs are very unhinged and don't even fix the problem and make the overall flow more shit makes 0 sense
A very famous game designer said that when people complain about things they don’t like in a video game, they are often right. However, they are almost never right about how to solve it. You have no clue what you are talking about despite thinking you do.
Would potentially nerfing the base shard cost of RoF help with this? Possibly add in a passive that if a RoF hits 3/6 targets, your next RoF will consume an additional 1/2 shards to do X/Y% more damage with a base cost of 1 SS for unbuffed RoF? They could also probably leave the base damage from RoF untouched, since the issue is the shard economy, not damage per shard spent. Another solution (provided they could implement something like this) would be to only have shards spend on RoF contribute half as much of the SS towards these procs? So if you have to spend 20 SS's from chaos bolting for Ritual of Ruin, you would have to spend 40 SS's from RoF?
Should have rain of fire give 0,5 shard Credit per target hit, max 2 shards for the diabolist ritual.... feels a bit sad to not have figured out and put it in already...
Y can’t tune correctly a class that is constantly starved of resources and try to force your players out of the only few systems that give them said resources. Make shard generation a fixed, stable thing. Start from there. Oh and also Make Vile Taint a 15 secs cooldown
@@PabloMartinez-iy2pv vile taint doesn't need a cooldown tbh. No idea why it has one. It has a shard cost already. Haunt and PS don't need cooldowns either if they are max of 1. It's just some crappy 15 year old design they are too stubborn to change.
They need to bring madness back or bake that into the improved chaos bolt. The problem is ROF is spammy and instant, vs COB cast time, by the time the first CB hits the target, u could have gotten 2-3 rof's out already.
Madness makes destro even more immobile It was one of the reasons it was the absolute worst raid spec in DF season 1, it was only good on Kurog and even then it was not played. Bringing madness back is def not the solution
@@slugfest513 Also just to add to it, you can go back to 10.0 logs and see destro has Madness 100% picked. If you didn't take it, then it was the people that didn't know how to play that talent correctly, but not using that talent is a massive dps loss
I'd argue the problem is ROF is a spender. Madness was removed for a reason, it was crippling destro. Fire 'n Brimstone was not removed for a reason, other than maybe to save a keybind - which is a nonexistent argument when they're trying to add SB, SF and CDF to our ST rotation. Destructions AOE has been a problem for expansions now. It's either busted strong or horribly weak, even when it DOES work it's still somehow the only spec in the game with Classic-era "place a targetting circle on the ground and hope the mobs don't get moved out of it" design. Now we're having issues where it's bleeding into the ST rotation. I don't know how anyone can defend ROF spam being a better design than proper Fire 'n Brimstone, it's caused nothing but problems ever since they decided to undo the rework for no good reason.
Them reducing shard gen from infernal for the first time ever(??) is a sign of failure, they lack what it takes to tune things right. My problem is that I would like to play destro, but I am sure that by the time expansion lunch, they will do something with the spac that will make it unplayable, as usual.. in every season 1. I always have to wait for the end of xpac to play this damn spec, when it starts scaling and I can compete.
You hit on it a lot of this, but my first thought when this all came out last night was that the main difference is simply the cast time. Neither spell generates shards… ROF just saves you a global or so on dumping shards, so the tradeoff is just that - the extra damage chaos bolt does vs the extra global it costs. Have you guys checked buffing bolt and shortening the base cast time in those sims? How different is it if bolt had a 1 gcd cast time and they just removed the faster cast time of ritual/rancora? The QOL of ROF being able to be cast while moving is also going to make it even more favored in a non-sim environment. Also, I don’t think infernal really should have been nerfed… I don’t think that contributes to this issue. Your 2min CD generating 3 shards over 30sec sounds a bit slow. On a completely separate note, and I think you’ve mentioned this, replacing pyrogenics with cataclysm would feel so much better in AOE. Having to pick between inferno and cataclysm for M+ feels really bad now that our main shard gen in AOE is immolate.
Why not give RoF the blizzard treatment and give it a CD for the length it lasts and drop it to cost 1 shard? Might need to bump it to say, 12 sec? But the issues are based off how many shards are spent, making it not cost as much. Makes inferno more interesting since it ups the cost, but, would only make equal to chaosbolt and would actually finally make a logical reason for it to be a choice with cata
Really disappointing to see how much blizz is dropping the ball here, not only with lock tuning and design but with TWW in general. It's honestly pathetic that the lock devs are so clueless. They seem to have no idea what they are doing with the class. At this point they should just pay you and have you on retainer to help them lmao
a possible soultion could be: Make RoF a 2 second cast (like blizzard from frost mage) and then, reduce the casttime of the next RoF something like 25% for every target hit by RoF. So it would be instant (after the first cast) in a 4+ Target situation, but wouldnt work anymore in ST
It's a shame that left the demons so undertuned for so long. No one played diabloist, so we locks didn't know about this sooner. This SHOULD have been fixed weeks, if not months ago. 😢 I feel like the other thing blizz can do now is super buff CB and lower the demons damage. Nerfing the builders also helps. Such a shame.
honestly touch of rancora just needs to go it seems to be the real issue and cutting infernal and ritual's shard gen in half to not even fix the problem feels awful. Replace touch of rancora with something else.
Excellent breakdown of the issue Kalamazi: "You could make Rain of Fire do zero damage, and it would still be better than casting Chaos Bolt". When this is the case you know the devs have made a giant blunder in designing the spec, and since we're in the tuning phase it might be too late to fix it. The spec needs a massive overhaul.
And this is the prime example of people talking in extremes on the internet. No, it does not need a massive overhaul. They just need to change 3-4 talents. Stop exaggerating people, cause eventually no one will take you seriously.
@@Faint0903 I'll take you seriously if you instead of posting gibberish about the problem being easy actually respond with a coherent proposition about which 3-4 talents need to be changed and how, in order to fix Destro's persistent inconsistency between CB and RoF usage and the cyclical nature of both the spec and the hero talent trees. I'm waiting. By the way, Kalamazi doesn't have a polished solution in mind either, but I'll just grant it you are special, Warlock NPC #14887.
Why don't they just change the talents so ROF consuming soul shards doesn't proc the talents unless it hits 3+ targets or some shit Edit: Honestly no idea how they would prevent warlock casting AoE spells for ST besides changing a lot. Don't think they'll do it properly but GL, casting AoE stuff in ST is never a good sign
The Diabolist buff on Chaos Bolt is better than ROF for ST, it does not only buffs damage but cast time. Your logic doesn't make much sense, ROF doesn't do 2mi damage. Watch them making ROF 3 shards only again soon because of that. Hellcaller needs a Chaos Bolt buff. But Chaos Bolt is still need an overall buff.
Every one of these videos worries me more and more. I REALLY wanted to play Diabolist because of the class fantasy, the Pit Lord summon is such a cool concept. But if I'm going to be doing nothing but throwing RoF with only an occasional Chaos Bolt, I'm just not interested. Back to Slayer Fury Warrior it is probably...
@@Theexter33 so destruction can't aoe in m+ anymore, since they would not be allowed to move in a world where blizz disigns dungeons to have a crap load of mechanics that require you to move... yeah, i dont think that would work :(
I don't really understand if they have real tuning problems or blizzard are really trolling. If you use the rain of fire single target the only move to make is to greatly enhance the chaos bolt, instead they reduced the shard generation and nerfed pyrothecnics. If I didn't love the warlock I would laugh
Dang, if only some sort of well known, handsome content creator, someone who's real content creator of the year material could have made a video essay explaining where the issues were, how to potentially fix them and warning against a kneejerk reaction that wouldn't fix anything and would just make the spec play worse. God they need to ditch ROF being a spender. Why are we spending expansions trying to fix this mess of a Classic ability when MOP already did that over a decade ago?
As Kala stated multiple times, the dmg rain of fire does is irrelevant. It’s all about it being an instant cast 2/3 shard spender which gets u faster pet procs and buffs from Diabolist (or Hellcaller to some degree).
Give rain of fire a short cd of 2-3 sec and the problem is solved. That way you can at least weave chaos bolts between rof's. Maybe increase the duration/dmg so it doesn't lower aoe/M+ potential. Zero reason spamming rain of fire should be the single target rotation
I think there giving blizzard too much information so it's now like a see saw..up and down and up and down..we are less than 20 days away from launch..at this point I think these videos are doing more harm then good.. unfortunately...
Great work Kala, and its good to see they are looking at it, with all the great work the devs have done so far working with feedback for Lock, I have faith. Not much time left for them though. What would you think of adjusting the amount of 'shards' casting rain of fire contributes towards summoning the diabolist demons and lil smolderon. Leave Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn, etc alone, and make it so like every 3 rain of fire casts, is the same as 1 chaos bolt in regards to summoning the demons/overfiend. Or however many fixed amount rain of fires it takes to make chaos bolt worth it. Might kill the aoe, but I think its worth it to change rain of fire to literally amount of casts it has, rather than shards spent
@@Sasukejepansef lmao, as if casting CB provides any «fun» to the rotation. The main rotational problems in ST stems from you having to cast a million incinerates to be able to spend, and then u have to be planted for 2 sec again to cast CB. And then you’re back to spamming a million incinerates… Casting ROF in general is a massive QoL increase rotationally, with more movement + globals to do other stuff. Make CB cast shorter if anything
@@Sasukejepansef - Yes! Ive been playing WoW since burning crusade, and I hate rain of fire because...(drum roll)...I'm sick of seeing it / casting it. I know this may seem trival, but after a hundred thousand (+) casts...I will do anything to avoid it. I'm sick of it...enough already. I don't wanna see that poop falling from the sky. Probably time to roll Mage. 🤪 ✌️
@@Bat_Boy wdym? 🤡 RoF is just as integral to Destro as CB. If you’re gonna hate on a core part of the spec (and wanna get invited to keys), then yeah reroll Mage
What are u talking about? This nerf came, was presictable, the peoblem is it is not targeting the main problem. Locks are still good, one of them always is
The game is still in beta, big tuning changes happen every week. By your logic you'll be changing your decision every week until the mythic raid and M+ open.
It is genuinely surprising, that making a ton of modifiers and procs has led to a mess of a design hurdles
pretty sure this is why blizzard killed big talent trees years ago and have now somehow forgot how messy they get
I mean, it's a matter of time we get a legion-style pruning again, nostalgia for talent trees starts to fall off
Blizz trolling on locks
Im lock main since bc, I hope I can play normal with my Diabolist demo talent 😜
Don't know why that blackened soul buff did not get applied to aff as well it is behind the other 2 specs and this would help a bit
they are determined to keep pyrogenics a thing and keeping inferno and catalclysm on a node for some reason
Unfortunately I think the easiest solution is changing how diabolic ritual functions for destro, ie: spending shards starts the ritual but spending shards does not reduce the time before the ritual expires. It would be a flat 13 seconds or something like that between each summon, and then change the choice nodes to fit that time frame, and untie them from shards. That OR tie ritual to non-shard spending spells, like "casting incinerate has X% chance to start a diabolic ritual, each additional incinerate cast increases the likelihood of a diabolic ritual by X%" and then tune down incinerate in order to not incentivize casting it more than would be ideal.
okay and this is just your way of saying play hellcaller instead gotcha, why do you hate diabolist so much lol😂
love how they hard fuck up destro few weeks before live but destro was good 3 weeks or more in beta before they start tuning shit
Blizzard will have to tweak Rain of Fire and Chaos bolt thoroughly. Perhaps they should start by making Chaos Bolt apply a bigger reduction to the Demonic Art timer; you spend 3 seconds to spend 2 shards/seconds, where ROF only needs a global to eat 2 or 3 shards/seconds.
These types of changes are always why the players think the Devs dont know wtf is going on.
*sigh*
My destro lock keeps swinging from being my primary alt in TWW to being something I don't bother touching. WTF are they even doing over there? I've never once gotten so many highs and lows from a pre-expansion runup (for like all the things I play, not just 1 class or spec). Idk how they're gonna launch this without some significant issues at this stage with how wonky everythings been.
take the black pill bro, no tuning until season start mattters.
maybe master class. stop sucking
Stop worrying so much about the meta, its not because a spec is nerfed that it becomes unplayable
This is literally your own problem. It’s beta. If you hang on every tuning pass like you are, this is the outcome.
Don’t even think about this tell heroic week.
This is literally your own problem. It’s beta. If you hang on every tuning pass like you are, this is the outcome.
Don’t even think about this tell heroic week.
This is so frustrating to see. How do they not understand that the main thing the rof is helping is just going through shards for the dia. rit procs. Its not the shard gen but the attractiveness of cb in st being the issue :/
Blizzard: This should fix it
Player base: Tell me you don't play the game without telling me you don't play the game
Hellcaller: instead of buffing chaos bolt and nerfing incinerate ~ have like a arbitrary chance to double cast a chaos bolt. Part of the Hellcaller flavor, one of the talents could include a ~67% chance to cast an additional chaos bolt. Essentially this double the damage periodically without outright doubling the base damage. This also has the benefit of not interfering with Diabolist. There would likely also need to be additional balancing but it's an idea.
Might sound like a bit of a noob here, but can't they make RoF not spend shards (as it is a weak hitting spell anyway) and instead put the shard cost on Cataclysm?
So what your saying is they need to buff rain of fire damage?
I wonder if adding a talent to increase the soul shard cost of chaos bolt to 3. Also increasing damage of 3 shard chaos bolt would fix this.
It's also about cast time. CB is super slow outside of the Conflagrate buff. Unless it suddenly did 10x the damage it would likely still be better to cast RoF as it is instant cast.
@@DJ_Khaaliswhat was different before this when you cast CB in ST? Should be easily reverted.
Early Legion RoF was our best ST build as well for a short time until we got the needed tuning.
What's the fix here, then, buff chaos bolt and nerf Rancora scaling on CB to compensate to fix hellcaller? Then change Diabolic Ritual to not reduce duration based on soul shards but by a flat amount from each spell that can be tuned; say 3s for CB and 1.5s for ROF?
Could you just make chaos bolt cost more shards and do more damage, or make rof cost less shards and do less damage?
youd think after 20 years these issues would no longer happen
I have an idea on how to fix Destruction Warlocks casting Rain of Fire in single target in the War Within Beta. I don't think this is a problem that can be fixed by adjusting numbers, I think this needs mechanical changes to fix.
-Revert the shard generation changes from the last beta hot fix.
-Remove the shard cost on Rain of Fire. Give it a cool down equal to it's duration. Change the Inferno talent to generate Soul Shard Fragments when Rain of Fire deals damage to at least three targets who are afflicted with Immolate or Wither.
-Change the Pyrogenics talent to increase the damage of Rain of Fire based on how many Immolated / Withered targets it deals damage to up to a cap, adjust Rain of Fires damage so it's not worth casting in one or two target fights.
-Make Cataclysm baseline for Destruction, remove the cool down but make it cost three soul shards to cast and make its cast time the same as Chaos Bolt.
-Change Fire and Brimstone to trigger after you cast Cataclysm and last for roughly eight seconds instead of having it active all the time. Increase the amount of damage that the cleaving incinerates do. I don't think the cleaving incinerates should generate extra shard fragments because the Diabolic Embers talent exists. This probably isn't a necessary change just one I'd like to see.
-Change Burn to Ashes, Chaos Incarnate and the Touch of Rancora talent in the Diabolist hero talent tree to effect Cataclysm instead of Rain of Fire.
So the idea is that a Destruction warlock starts an AoE pull (3+ targets) with Cataclysm, casts Rain of Fire on top of it and uses the Fire and Brimstone empowered Incinerates to generate shard fragments to cast more Cataclysms.
With Cataclysm having the same cast time as Chaos Bolt (and proper tuning) this should make Chaos Bolt the go to spender for single and two target fights (with Havoc) and Cataclysm the AoE shard spender. It should also help slow down the shard generation / spending of destruction. I don't know if these changes could be implemented, tested and balanced in time for the War Within launch or even if these would actually help. It could make things worse. I'm not a game developer, just a geek with too much time on his hands.
That would be amazing but unfortunately they are fixed on the RoF spam playstyle. Hopefully they change their minds later, but it's a little late for a rework like that now.
Make cataclysm baseline.
Make hellfire baseline - add talents that increase bolt count and usable while moving.
Put short CD on rain of fire.
Increase brimstone talent %
Fun
No hellfire ty it sucked to be in melee range channeling.
@@ShadowsOfThePast I meant channel DF my fault 😂
@@johnmkryan2751 ah okay then np 🤣 I thought hellfire.. what a blast from the past 😬
Edit: I should have realised what you meant now that I re-read it. I was so tired when I first replied that I missed the quite obvious part about the bolts.. that should have made me realize it's not about hellfire since it has no bolts 😆
@Kalamazi when the problem is not the damage of RoF but the speed we can spend shards, might it be an idea to up the speed for chaos bolt like bring back madness? Or just doubleing the "Improved Chaosbolt" talent ( 20% and 1 second)
What if they just made Chaos Bolt instant every other one free with no cast time? Or someway to drop the same amount of shards using chaos bolt instead of using rain of fire.
I said it in the last video and I'll say it here again. Changing the dmg of warlock spells or the shard generation does nothing to fix the problem. The problem is that just the act of spending shards generates a lot of destros dmg in st. Personally I think the easiest fix would be to revert the Avatar of Destruction back to an pet with an immolation aura and melee attacks instead of spamming chaos bolts.
Ik this might be daft but couldn't it be fixed by making chaos bolt instant cast seeing as it should be the proper single target spender we should be casting
@@gummie3rd547 it doesn't need to be instant. It just needs to be the same cast time as the GCD. Then you can cast both the same amount in a given time if you are turreting. If you have to move you can shadowburn/rof for less dmg but some mobility. Should work.
@@DaimyoTV fairs just thought easy fix just making it instant still dumping shards just as fast rof but a proper st spender
@kalamazi
What if they bring back madness? its a buff to chaos dmg , plus shorter cast time and plus you are forced to use chaos bolt to keep it up
i'd say madness should be back with 6-7 sec duration.
would it ruin the spec in aoe if they just put like a 1 or 1.2 sec cast time on RoF or some type of cast time to make it so you dont spam it in ST
Blizzard has no idea what they are doing, these nerfs are very unhinged and don't even fix the problem and make the overall flow more shit makes 0 sense
A very famous game designer said that when people complain about things they don’t like in a video game, they are often right.
However, they are almost never right about how to solve it.
You have no clue what you are talking about despite thinking you do.
@@Kmaitland89 Thanks for the compliment! I'm actually a game dev for Hanger 13 so i hope i understand the backend at least a little bit.
Would potentially nerfing the base shard cost of RoF help with this? Possibly add in a passive that if a RoF hits 3/6 targets, your next RoF will consume an additional 1/2 shards to do X/Y% more damage with a base cost of 1 SS for unbuffed RoF? They could also probably leave the base damage from RoF untouched, since the issue is the shard economy, not damage per shard spent.
Another solution (provided they could implement something like this) would be to only have shards spend on RoF contribute half as much of the SS towards these procs? So if you have to spend 20 SS's from chaos bolting for Ritual of Ruin, you would have to spend 40 SS's from RoF?
Should have rain of fire give 0,5 shard Credit per target hit, max 2 shards for the diabolist ritual.... feels a bit sad to not have figured out and put it in already...
Y can’t tune correctly a class that is constantly starved of resources and try to force your players out of the only few systems that give them said resources. Make shard generation a fixed, stable thing. Start from there. Oh and also Make Vile Taint a 15 secs cooldown
@@PabloMartinez-iy2pv vile taint doesn't need a cooldown tbh. No idea why it has one. It has a shard cost already. Haunt and PS don't need cooldowns either if they are max of 1. It's just some crappy 15 year old design they are too stubborn to change.
They need to bring madness back or bake that into the improved chaos bolt. The problem is ROF is spammy and instant, vs COB cast time, by the time the first CB hits the target, u could have gotten 2-3 rof's out already.
Madness makes destro even more immobile
It was one of the reasons it was the absolute worst raid spec in DF season 1, it was only good on Kurog and even then it was not played.
Bringing madness back is def not the solution
@@slugfest513 Also just to add to it, you can go back to 10.0 logs and see destro has Madness 100% picked. If you didn't take it, then it was the people that didn't know how to play that talent correctly, but not using that talent is a massive dps loss
I'd argue the problem is ROF is a spender.
Madness was removed for a reason, it was crippling destro.
Fire 'n Brimstone was not removed for a reason, other than maybe to save a keybind - which is a nonexistent argument when they're trying to add SB, SF and CDF to our ST rotation.
Destructions AOE has been a problem for expansions now. It's either busted strong or horribly weak, even when it DOES work it's still somehow the only spec in the game with Classic-era "place a targetting circle on the ground and hope the mobs don't get moved out of it" design. Now we're having issues where it's bleeding into the ST rotation.
I don't know how anyone can defend ROF spam being a better design than proper Fire 'n Brimstone, it's caused nothing but problems ever since they decided to undo the rework for no good reason.
Them reducing shard gen from infernal for the first time ever(??) is a sign of failure, they lack what it takes to tune things right. My problem is that I would like to play destro, but I am sure that by the time expansion lunch, they will do something with the spac that will make it unplayable, as usual.. in every season 1. I always have to wait for the end of xpac to play this damn spec, when it starts scaling and I can compete.
Make chaos bolt instant cast and cost 3 shards :)
In single target I don't want to every be castng RoF I don't want to even talent it.
On the Dimensiuonal Rifts do you click all 3 at once ?
if the enemy doesnt receive extra dmg/i dont have huge buffs rolling, i usually hover on 1, so i have a good gcd to cast if i have to move.
You hit on it a lot of this, but my first thought when this all came out last night was that the main difference is simply the cast time. Neither spell generates shards… ROF just saves you a global or so on dumping shards, so the tradeoff is just that - the extra damage chaos bolt does vs the extra global it costs. Have you guys checked buffing bolt and shortening the base cast time in those sims? How different is it if bolt had a 1 gcd cast time and they just removed the faster cast time of ritual/rancora?
The QOL of ROF being able to be cast while moving is also going to make it even more favored in a non-sim environment.
Also, I don’t think infernal really should have been nerfed… I don’t think that contributes to this issue. Your 2min CD generating 3 shards over 30sec sounds a bit slow.
On a completely separate note, and I think you’ve mentioned this, replacing pyrogenics with cataclysm would feel so much better in AOE. Having to pick between inferno and cataclysm for M+ feels really bad now that our main shard gen in AOE is immolate.
or, and I hate to mention this, give rof the same cast time as bolt.
So at What point do I need to just learn this rotation?
I might be in the minority but I prefer RoF being my spender. Chaos bolt hasn't felt good to press in forever
Why not give RoF the blizzard treatment and give it a CD for the length it lasts and drop it to cost 1 shard? Might need to bump it to say, 12 sec? But the issues are based off how many shards are spent, making it not cost as much. Makes inferno more interesting since it ups the cost, but, would only make equal to chaosbolt and would actually finally make a logical reason for it to be a choice with cata
You use rain of fire on a single target ?
Yes. And CB hits like a wet noodle.
Really disappointing to see how much blizz is dropping the ball here, not only with lock tuning and design but with TWW in general. It's honestly pathetic that the lock devs are so clueless. They seem to have no idea what they are doing with the class. At this point they should just pay you and have you on retainer to help them lmao
They could just add same cast time and cast time reduction on chaos bolt for rain of fire, problem solved lol
a possible soultion could be: Make RoF a 2 second cast (like blizzard from frost mage) and then, reduce the casttime of the next RoF something like 25% for every target hit by RoF. So it would be instant (after the first cast) in a 4+ Target situation, but wouldnt work anymore in ST
That sounds terrible
Are they fixing destro throwing a coin?
I tested it and cb makes more dmg than rof on one target 😮
Solution: make RoF contribute 1 to Ritual of Ruin and Diabolic Ritual so its not optimal to use 2 shards for 1 point
It's a shame that left the demons so undertuned for so long. No one played diabloist, so we locks didn't know about this sooner.
This SHOULD have been fixed weeks, if not months ago. 😢
I feel like the other thing blizz can do now is super buff CB and lower the demons damage. Nerfing the builders also helps. Such a shame.
Help us Kalamaz-Kenobi, you're our only hope...
honestly touch of rancora just needs to go it seems to be the real issue and cutting infernal and ritual's shard gen in half to not even fix the problem feels awful. Replace touch of rancora with something else.
Excellent breakdown of the issue Kalamazi: "You could make Rain of Fire do zero damage, and it would still be better than casting Chaos Bolt".
When this is the case you know the devs have made a giant blunder in designing the spec, and since we're in the tuning phase it might be too late to fix it. The spec needs a massive overhaul.
And this is the prime example of people talking in extremes on the internet.
No, it does not need a massive overhaul. They just need to change 3-4 talents.
Stop exaggerating people, cause eventually no one will take you seriously.
@@Faint0903 I'll take you seriously if you instead of posting gibberish about the problem being easy actually respond with a coherent proposition about which 3-4 talents need to be changed and how, in order to fix Destro's persistent inconsistency between CB and RoF usage and the cyclical nature of both the spec and the hero talent trees.
I'm waiting. By the way, Kalamazi doesn't have a polished solution in mind either, but I'll just grant it you are special, Warlock NPC #14887.
They're just going to add a cast time on ROF, just watch
Y'all are going to mess around and get RoF a cast time if you keep this up...
Change RoF to cost 1 shard..!! Fixed...!!?! 😎🤘🏻
Would also be nice for being able to cast AoE when you want and not wait for resources..
any hope of getting rid of the rapture?
they were finding excuse to nerf shard gen
Sounds to me like if CB was insta this problem would be solved
Make chaos bolt instant 🤔
Buff chaos bolt dmg! Tone down the demons slightly.
I am really not happy about what they did to avatar/infernal.
Why don't they just change the talents so ROF consuming soul shards doesn't proc the talents unless it hits 3+ targets or some shit
Edit: Honestly no idea how they would prevent warlock casting AoE spells for ST besides changing a lot. Don't think they'll do it properly but GL, casting AoE stuff in ST is never a good sign
Wait, you said Aff isnt doing too bad yet its simmong at 1.1m while Demo and Destro are at 1.4m and 1.65m respectively. Das bad
The Diabolist buff on Chaos Bolt is better than ROF for ST, it does not only buffs damage but cast time. Your logic doesn't make much sense, ROF doesn't do 2mi damage. Watch them making ROF 3 shards only again soon because of that.
Hellcaller needs a Chaos Bolt buff. But Chaos Bolt is still need an overall buff.
Every one of these videos worries me more and more. I REALLY wanted to play Diabolist because of the class fantasy, the Pit Lord summon is such a cool concept. But if I'm going to be doing nothing but throwing RoF with only an occasional Chaos Bolt, I'm just not interested. Back to Slayer Fury Warrior it is probably...
Blizzard should listen to the wise words of Kalamazi and just FIX IT...!! 🤔
Revert inferno and nerf PO thats how it should be done
Random thought, what if they turned rain of fire into a channel that drained soulshards over time, sorta like mind sear on spriest in early DF
Of course with tuning to compensate, whatever that would be
@@Theexter33 so destruction can't aoe in m+ anymore, since they would not be allowed to move in a world where blizz disigns dungeons to have a crap load of mechanics that require you to move... yeah, i dont think that would work :(
So rof is still best in st and destro took a nerf for nothing. Great job Blizz /s
I don't really understand if they have real tuning problems or blizzard are really trolling. If you use the rain of fire single target the only move to make is to greatly enhance the chaos bolt, instead they reduced the shard generation and nerfed pyrothecnics. If I didn't love the warlock I would laugh
Dang, if only some sort of well known, handsome content creator, someone who's real content creator of the year material could have made a video essay explaining where the issues were, how to potentially fix them and warning against a kneejerk reaction that wouldn't fix anything and would just make the spec play worse.
God they need to ditch ROF being a spender. Why are we spending expansions trying to fix this mess of a Classic ability when MOP already did that over a decade ago?
Reduce CB cast time!
I’m not great when it comes to theory crafting. Would it be bad if rain was 2 soul shards but reduced damage by like 33% to compensate?
As Kala stated multiple times, the dmg rain of fire does is irrelevant. It’s all about it being an instant cast 2/3 shard spender which gets u faster pet procs and buffs from Diabolist (or Hellcaller to some degree).
Die👏ab👏oh👏list
warlock dev is beyond incompetent
Give rain of fire a short cd of 2-3 sec and the problem is solved. That way you can at least weave chaos bolts between rof's. Maybe increase the duration/dmg so it doesn't lower aoe/M+ potential. Zero reason spamming rain of fire should be the single target rotation
I think there giving blizzard too much information so it's now like a see saw..up and down and up and down..we are less than 20 days away from launch..at this point I think these videos are doing more harm then good.. unfortunately...
This are too bad changes for destro , if they want fix single rain fire builds only need that rain only give ONE soul shard for Procs ... Easy .
Great video! Nerfs seem justified enough. Looking forward to season 1 !
Great work Kala, and its good to see they are looking at it, with all the great work the devs have done so far working with feedback for Lock, I have faith. Not much time left for them though. What would you think of adjusting the amount of 'shards' casting rain of fire contributes towards summoning the diabolist demons and lil smolderon. Leave Chaos Bolt and Shadowburn, etc alone, and make it so like every 3 rain of fire casts, is the same as 1 chaos bolt in regards to summoning the demons/overfiend. Or however many fixed amount rain of fires it takes to make chaos bolt worth it. Might kill the aoe, but I think its worth it to change rain of fire to literally amount of casts it has, rather than shards spent
I dont like the new tset from demo😅
Buff improved CB. Make it consume 3 shards and make it a take a full 1 off the cast time? Basically reverse the shard cost of CB and ROF lol???
I hate rain of fire. 😢
You prefer standing still waiting for a 2 sec cast bar to go off for 3 minutes straight?
@@norwegiantacoeater9115 yes, I am not casting ROF on single target, the rotation is dogshit enough already. Let me just cast chaos bolt.
@@Sasukejepansef lmao, as if casting CB provides any «fun» to the rotation.
The main rotational problems in ST stems from you having to cast a million incinerates to be able to spend, and then u have to be planted for 2 sec again to cast CB. And then you’re back to spamming a million incinerates…
Casting ROF in general is a massive QoL increase rotationally, with more movement + globals to do other stuff. Make CB cast shorter if anything
@@Sasukejepansef - Yes! Ive been playing WoW since burning crusade, and I hate rain of fire because...(drum roll)...I'm sick of seeing it / casting it. I know this may seem trival, but after a hundred thousand (+) casts...I will do anything to avoid it. I'm sick of it...enough already. I don't wanna see that poop falling from the sky. Probably time to roll Mage. 🤪 ✌️
@@Bat_Boy wdym? 🤡 RoF is just as integral to Destro as CB. If you’re gonna hate on a core part of the spec (and wanna get invited to keys), then yeah reroll Mage
Again??? Buff, nerf, buff, nerf
😢
Ffs just remove inferno
#BuffWarlock
they could just buff ROF by like 300% but give it a 2-3 sek cast time and that´s it
Nope. Reduce CB cast time
@@davidw.5984 buff ROF by like 300% but give it a 2-3 sek cast time and Reduce CB cast time 🙂🙃🙂🙃👻💥💫👌🤞🙏👍
Blizz pulling out all the stops to make sure aff is irrelevant
Yoooo let's go
Goofy simp
Man , I was gonna buy tww and play wow again. Then I saw all the nerfs in the last week and remembered why I stopped. Thanks man, saving me $!
What are u talking about? This nerf came, was presictable, the peoblem is it is not targeting the main problem. Locks are still good, one of them always is
The game is still in beta, big tuning changes happen every week. By your logic you'll be changing your decision every week until the mythic raid and M+ open.
Are you playing Wow to have fun or do big dam? I mean, lock's gameplay still great with these hero talents.