I've had a very similar case study like this one. 2003 escape. Ultimately came down to finding that the instrument cluster had a bad diode, leaking voltage into the ignition power circuit that backfed the control side of a relay keeping that relay latched, providing power to the vehicle keeping the vehicle running. my move is exactly what you're doing in the bonus footage. These ones are always a challenge lol. (I actually ripped apart that instrument cluster and replaced the smc diode on the board and got the customer their car back vs throwing in a reman or used. pretty sweet)
@@deniscarr469 Very, very good point. If my memory isn't crap, 2-3 hours to narrow it down to the cluster. Then about 30min-1hr testing on the board and fixing it. Luckily the diode had a witness mark so it was easy to tell where the magic pixies went 🤣 add another two hours for a trip to fry's electronics (may they rest in peace) and reassembly. Definitely didn't charge them enough to cover a whole day project. Think I did diag, an hour for r+r, and $100 for the cluster fix. Eh, you win some, you lose some. Lady still comes back to see me every time she's got a problem though. Hard to come by in a woman, loyalty. 🤣
Hello Iven, i smiled and clicked your video as soon as i saw the thumbnail! A new BCM will fix this car, i've been through a 2018 elite with the exact same symptoms and that was the fix. I am actually surprised it only took you an hour to reach that conclusion hence it took me a full day to make the call 😅. You are an excellent tech, and i am glade you decided to share your knowledge with the community. Good luck
This is not an isolated instance, other Honda owners of similar age models (e.g. Civic, Pilot, CRV) have experienced the same symptoms and have either had the BCM replaced or are waiting for them to become available. There are a few people saying the keyless entry module was the cause, this is much cheaper and available so may be worth a look.
As a Honda Technician, if we have a vehicle that powers itself on by itself (usually also comes with intermittent alarm), and we see the gauge cluster turned on with the key nowhere near the vehicle, we know it's a BCM issue. Also for IGN1 alarms where the car sets off its alarm randomly by itself. On some models its the keyless entry instead of the BCM, but I believe that's really only on the Pilots. Basically whichever module controls 'turning on' the car when the start button is pressed, is the culprit.
Hey Ivan. I ran into this same problem with a 2017 crv a year ago. The BCM was unavailable.(still isn't) That really sucks for the customer. I even opened up the module to inspect for a possible manufacturing error. Found nothing. I do automotive electrical and diagnostic work for a living, and your right, the newer these cars get, the harder it is to find modules should they go bad. Good luck with your odyssey. My temporary solution was a constant duty solenoid to power up the micu/BCM.
Hi Ivan, I've been working in the field for 15 years and for the last year I've been watching all your videos, I've learned a lot and I apply it in my work too, you help me a lot, thank you. Your videos are great and I always watch them with an interesting, healthy and very happy look. Greetings from Israel :)
I had something like this on a 1981 Ford Thunderbird Heritage Edition. This car had the electronic dashboard and things I had never seen in a car before. The interior lights and the dashboard were coming on by themselves. Now, this is long before any modern electronics or canbus or anything. I had a repair manual that was for the electrical and it contained flow charts. I messed with that thing for 2 days. It would be sitting outside and the interior lights would come on and the dashboard would light up. Turned out to be a bad lighting control module that was backfeeding through the ignition. This video reminds me of that. Great video!
All the symptoms are pointing to a problem at the BCM. Either a faulty connection to, or a faulty module itself. It is really difficult to tell at this point, but I can't argue with your hypothesis either as it does seem that the BCM is the most probable suspect. Something that caught my attention though was, there is an "updated" part listing for the BCM on a 5-year-old vehicle. Not an identical replacement part. And no related TSB's on it. Just something that makes you go humm? I am looking forward to part 2.
Miss the good old days when you could climb into the engine compartment to do repairs, actually see the spark plugs before you remove them, change a headlight for 5 bucks and a tail light for 50 cents, 7 dollars for a wheel bearing instead of 250 for a hub assembly.
The good old days when head lights had the brightness of a firefly in a mason jar, a 5.7l v8 made 120hp, a mid size family car got 14 mpg, and if you hit anything you were instantly killed.
Your event gives credence to fears of artifical intelligence going amok. It is always an 'adventure' when you share your troubleshooting. And you always seem to encounter the most perplexing of problems.
Hi Ivan.You're making the right call in the circumstances. Financially it's a no brainer - change BCM. From the customer's point of view he/she could end up paying for hours and hours of diagnostic time for no result.
I own a 2018 Odyssey with almost identical symptoms including the weird “lost power to alarm..” message on screen. It is very intermittent but the car has left me at least 5 times with a dead battery. I’m in SoCal and car has
Must be infuriating. Just out of warranty.....or is it? Is there dust in or on the connections? Maybe a lot of thieves are just driving around trying codes or seeing whose lights come on. Maybe drive in a different area.......
Ivan, you have us as perplexed as you must be feeling right now. Just changed the oil in my 97 Dodge Truck and 02 Caravan. Can't say I'm really ready for what the automotive future looks like right now. Hope to get a some more time on the vehicles I have now. Trick or Treat? Thanks for Sharing!
I feel your pain on Honda parts availability. My sister-in-laws 2018 Fit was rear ended in late December 2021. Took until August 2022 to get all the parts to repair it!
Ive seen this befor on my friends 2015 Colorado, he didn't fix it and problem got worse , eventually got to the point of engine starting and running by itself.. He had a rear leaking window that sometimes caused alot of moisture inside and I figured that may have somehow ruined the bcm. Replaced BCM and he hasn't had any problems since. So i believe you made the right call PH.
This seems very similar to an issue my dad had with his 2018 Ridgeline. Honda has a service bulletin to replace the keyless access control unit. The alarm would also go off for no reason at times. Parts were not available for the ridgeline, the dealership turned off the smart lock feature and the issue has not returned.
Apparently Honda has the biggest problem with parts...buy an alternator while you can get it - you'll need it. Great work Ivan and looking forward to part B:)
You have a thing for weird cases, Ivan :-) It seems like a very educated guess to get a new BCM! IMHO, a leaking capacitor can bridge tracks of a PCB and pass low current intermittent signals where they shouldn't go (e.g., the base of a sensitive transistor) making something act out of control, as you have there. So, the BCM being the only module providing power, ground and control voltage to the 4 relays, has got to be the culprit. Can't wait for Part 2 :-)
If it were my car and the part was that hard to get, I'd be opening the BCM to see if I could find the problem. Perhaps I could fix it. But there's also a good chance I'd at least see something wrong which assures me that this is the problem. Really, this problem doesn't feel like the computer itself, but I can believe that damage to the drivers could do it. In other words, this feels more like a green crusty problem than something requiring a logic analyzer.
Leaking capacitors rotting into the PCB on a 5 year old car? Possible but far less likely than with something a lot older. Green crusties otoh can happen to a brand new car. We went through a time when all capacitors in all products were suspect at any age. A whole mystery novel could be written about the cause of that one. Regarding Honda, this problem did attack my 1991 Acura in the ICU (intergrated control unit, 1991speak for a body module) causing the intermittent wipers to be...uh...intermittent. Then it went further and pretty soon you could turn on the left blinker and the right headlight would flash. 🤣🤣🤣I found a used ICU on EBAY, which was the only option at the time and it had the same problem but I was able o fix that one.
Ivan good call.(maybe) In the early 1980s Volvo had a similar problem with the Volvo 340 CVT model. If you left the car and closed the drivers door sometimes the car would start and if you left it in gear the car would start up and drive away !!!!. They introduced and new fuse box( now called BCM) and a different gear lever with a buzzer fitted to try a warn people to not leave it in gear.
Intermittents are such fun! I've had them before, some take many days to locate. The wiring diagram was the main helper along with one DMM and one Fluke 98 scope in DMM mode. No green crusties, but a lot of heat related problems that caused the Intermittents. A heat gun sometimes helped. You'll find it.
Odysseys, Pilots, Ridgeline, CRV and Civic all could have this issue. Correct with BCM diagnosis. Check alarm history and see if "ignition switch" was a alarm trigger. It's usually a good indication of BCM ghosting ignition to run position. I have waited over 8+ months to get BCM from Honda. Try and source a used unit. Be sure parts numbers are correct. They have different part numbers for different trim lines in the same year. As far as I know they are not flashable to different trim lines. Good content Ivan. Thanks,
You know Ivan, putting a kill switch wired to the BCM would be a cheaper solution to the problem AND I think also a great theft deterrent. If a crook steals the FOB RF signal, there will be no way in hell they could steal the vehicle. I know push button start and theft is a huge problem for Toyota but all push button start cars are susceptible.
You mentioned adding a switch. How about turning off the Batt supply to the BCM? Maybe try that as a test first? Hoping to see a solution in part 2. Thanks for this part.
This reminds me of a similar case I had with a 2015 BMW F20 1 series. The fuel pump would start running full speed at random when the car was parked and should be asleep. Eventually causing the battery to be discharged over night. The fuel pump is controlled by a fuel pump control modules that regulates the fuel pump speed based on fuel demand coming from the engine control unit. A BMW dealership already replaced the fuel pump control module to no avail. When it came to me I knew that the fuel pump should only be running at 100% if the fuel pump module is awake but has no communication with the engine control unit. Looking at a diagram it has a wakeup line. When it was acting up the wakeup line was raised to 12v thus waking up the module even though the engine control unit wasn't requesting fuel flow, causing it to start running at full speed. Looking at the diagram I disconnected every module on that wakeup line one by one and determined the FEM (Front Electronics Module, basically like a BCM controls everything like ignition, lighting, power windows, door locks, starter relay etc. ) was outputting 12v on the wakeup line when it shouldn't. I was ready to call the FEM until I found not a single used unit with Comfort Access like the car had and a new one from the dealer was way out of the customers budget. With that in mind I decided to dig a little deeper. When it acted up again I started removing connectors from the FEM one by one and noticed when I pulled 3 specific connectors out of the 10 that were connected to the FEM the fuel pump turned back off. Looking at pinouts for those connectors nothing looked really interesting except for a wakeup line going exclusively to the instrument cluster. I had noticed that when the car acted up the indicator lights on the cluster would light up. And what do you know, when pulling the pin for the cluster wakeup line out of the connector and reinserting the connector into the FEM the fuel pump remained silent. I reinserted that pin and just disconnected the the connector at the back of the cluster. Left the car for 2 days and 2 nights. Battery wasn't drained while it would be dead every morning cause of the fuel pump issue. Got a used instrument cluster, virginised it, programmed it to the car and the problem was solved. Sometimes you've just gotta know how the system works and dig a little deeper even though the answer looks straight forward. It might not be.
Does the car have "On-Star" type capability that can remotely start the car (without the key being needed)? Maybe that system has gone haywire. Also, I noticed a big dent on the driver side front fender. Maybe the car was in an accident and some wires got got messed with? Looking forward to Part 2, Ivan!!!
We fixed a couple pilots doing that At the dealership those two pilots would also sound the alarm of course conveniently at 1 o’clock in the morning lol
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 17 Pilot Elite Smart power control unit module and I miss spoke earlier it was a 17 or 18 Ridgeline. Smart power control unit. I didn’t look at our interactive network site I’m not sure if odyssey even uses this module but it certainly affects pilots I believe even a civic it would just turn the key on and sometimes you could not even turn it off with the button but I could be off Mark on this one I’m not sure if that Odyssey uses the smart module or not On the pilot it’s on the passenger side flip down the glove box mounted with one bolt below the airbag.
BCM Is the correct educated guess, I'm seeing this issue more often lately. Only dealer tool will be able to program the new BCM/Used. There is no flashing for the New or used BCM only immo needs to be learnt, Original keys can be reused. Used Bcm with same part number can also be used.
My 2014 Ford F-150 has the ECU (electric control unit) turns lights and ignition on and drains the battery overnight. I have had it to the dealer under warranty numerous times and they can't find anything wrong. It is a fairly common problem with Fords but the dealers won't acknowledge it. You are correct in your assessment of "stupid smart cars" I work on classic cars, points, plugs and condensers. And I can fix things not just throw parts at a car like the dealer techs do.
Part of me would wonder if there is a key hiding somewhere. I’d delete out any keys but what you have, Just in case. There should be an encryption code shared between the ecm/bcm for each key that should be needed to power up the car. Replacing the BCM should invalidate the keys, and would also cause the same outcome. It will be interesting if you can pair the bcm/ecm or if a dealer will have to do it.
I had found a set of fobs with factory build sheet while detailing my Chevy truck. They were between upper back seat and cab wall. I saw a little piece of plastic hanging down and didn't know what it was until I kept pulling at it to get it out.
With a computer involved, anything can happen. All it takes is a tiny leakage current to common in a capacitor tied to a processor input normally pulled high, or a switch mode power supply or power converter with too much AC ripple. Somewhere, there is a logic 0 or logic 1 that turns on the ignition, and whether that tiny signal should be high or low, it doesn't take much to change it. I think you get these cases because of your superior intellect and logical thinking.
Go ahead and change the bcm, and trust your work, and yes cars are becoming disposable items!, I hate this start stop gizmos. Looking forward to the next vid
Hey. Great video...my 2013 Honda Pilot 55,000 mi also was possessed. Navigation and radio constantly rebooted, headlights flash, close object warning flashes. All without the key present...and it would not start ...$2300 later it was a bad micu and 2 shorts in the wiring harness. omg
Yeah I agree parts especially one containing logic boards have been hard to source. Leading to more eeprom work. But on that note would live to see what's inside that BCM Making it go crazy 🤪 maybe corrupt firmware or logic? Or ? Hopefully we could get to see a "no parts needed" fix! Lol. But seriously this is an interesting case study. Thanks fir sharing!
I've seen this once. The owner put a spare key in a magnetic hide- a- key under the car. After market ebay key of course...... It would get wet and yup! Took weeks to pry that info out of customer.
Keyless access module. We’ve seen a lot of them on the Acura side. If the alarm was set, the alarm would go off and store a “IG1” as the trigger device.
How do u charge customers for diags like this? I’ve been watching u for a long time so I kno u have looked into a lot of symptoms when u technically were not working on the car. This is one that u were prolly think about off hours. And I love how u think this stuff is fun. I would be pulling the little bit of hair out that I have left. Ur a wizard Ivan we need more people like u
I agree with your diagnosis but one problem I see is that let say the bcm is (seeing the key ) and turning the ignition on. I would think the car would start when pressing on the brake and pushing the start button when the ignition is on. Also I noticed what appears to be the red security light flashing on the cluster when the ignition comes on. I’m not disagreeing with you but It would be hard to call it the bcm when the fuse box could cause this too. Only way to tell is to isolate the ignition control feeds from the bcm to the fuse box. I enjoy your videos
Nearly a year ago our Ford had a problem. Towed to a dealer and waited a month for parts. Corporate said they don't have an ETA for parts and, at the time, the dealer said he had about 10 cars waiting for parts. Had to purchase a new car. Fortunately, a dealer gave us book price for our non-running, but warrantied car. Are we still blaming covid for this? Great video. Thanks
What device actually reads the presence of the key inside the vehicle? Is that device directly connected to the ignition button? My thought is if those two items are part of the same module behind the dash, then the BCM could be ok and that button-and-antenna module could be telling stories to the BCM. On the other hand, if they're completely separate, then it's more likely to be a fault in the BCM itself. Guess we'll see in part deux.
2019 Honda Odyssey elite 90K milesl, so initially, the Lane detection camera ($700 part) has been bad, but I have been driving it anyway for months buying time. However, now the car will not shut off? I think it is unrelated to the many lane camera error messages. I had to pull the battery cable off to stop the engine; then it that reset computer (?)and it started it fine, seemed ok. Locked it up and went to bed only to wake up to the horn alarm going off later! The key remote didn't work to turn off the alarm!. So I had to use the 'real key' inside the fob to open the door the old fashion way. I found out if I don't lock it the security system won't go off like that. However, the accessory power still comes on by itself!! I caught it twice but now my battery is dead or drained from the accessory going on. I see other's pointing to the ignition switch as the cause. I will update.
I had a crv a while back that was a parasitic draw. This new town i moved into has a big problem with draws. I went 6 years as a tech in my hometown and only ever had 1 parasitic draw that was something real easy that i have forgotten what it was. Here I've had like 5-6 cars with draws in the year i have lived here. Anyways this crv at first I found the radio was staying on. My draw went away when I unplugged it so I replaced the radio. Supposedly that wasn't the fix when the customer returned about 3 months later saying he was still having a dead battery. It then took a few visits to the shop because he would need the vehicle to get to work and couldn't leave it for any reasonable length of time but I finally found that the MICU/BCM was actually the issue and was keeping the Radio on at all times. I dug deeper when I found that new radio was staying on again. Lesson learned. Anyways all that to say that the BCM for that car took 5 months to get and same thing I think it was a 2015-2018. Somewhere around there
Double bonus footage, Ivan?! You spoil us! But yeah, this "supply chain" nonsense is getting on everyone's nerves... Even if the world didn't use a J-I-T logistics system, (though it didn't help!) I wonder if warehousing could have smoothed out all this...
It is crazy to think the vehicle will just turn itself into the KOEO (Key On Engine Off) position when not commanded by the appropriate means. You would think the vehicle's security programming at a minimum would prevent this from happening unless a number of specific conditions being met, all these being external commands being received and validated. IE: the key being close enough to the vehicle's receiver, the key AND the receiver doing the necessary validation checks AND the start button being pushed once to place the vehicle in KOEO position. These are essentially three "AND" functions, ie must happen, no if's or buts. I know software can do crazy things, however if it were a software issue, then reloading the modules software should fix this. I don't even think a software issue can cause something to operate that requires a number of external commands/functions to happen first. It seems unlikely it is a module manufacturing issue as there would be an extremely large amount of reported vehicles with the same issue. Like all things, modules are made in batches, the manufacturing error will be in a complete batch at a minimum, with the appropriate forum coverage and hopefully manufacturer recall. This is a crazy issue. I agree with your decision to replace the module, in reality what is there to check, Powers & Grounds seem okay, there are no connectors between the relays and the modules & grounds, the start button would not cause this, it won't even be active until the BCM enables it in the first instance. Everything is pointing to the BCM and whatever is in there to enable the KOEO position. Even a lost key somewhere in the vehicle wont do anything unless the BCM sees it AND the stop/start button is pressed. Even if there was a lost key, when you program a new key, you reprogram the old keys so the lost key ceases t function in that vehicle. I really am looking forward to the outcome, even if it is a case of "the new BCM worked, the customer has not reported an issue since the new BCM was installed" I do however hope Honda is keen on exploring the issue even if it means shipping the old BCM to their technical engineering division. Sorry for the ultra long post, I couldn't make it shorter.
If you could monitor battery current with a deep memory scope or logger and trigger at an amp above sleep current (with some pre-trigger data), you might see a current signature that could be used to understand a possible module sequence of events (current draw magnitude unique to each module or load). Maybe you could determine what module turned on first. My troubleshooting approach is much like yours, although having an electronic repair bench (microscope, soldering stations, etc.) available to me, I will take apart a suspect module and inspect it before replacing it. You can find uncommon failures and many times, if you have access to a electronics parts inventory (TH and SMT), you can fix the module if the problem is not related to a custom IC. An obvious failure mode is a cracked solder joint or PCB trace, and relay contacts if the vehicle is older. But many times you may have a single SMT component fail. For example, a stacked design SMT ceramic capacitor which can crack and fail short, open or intermittent. I keep a small inventory of the most common high reliability automotive chip capacitors (NP0 and X7R) with features like; soft end termination, AEC-200 Qualification, etc. in 0402, 0603, and 0805, with some larger values in 1206. I also have an inventory of automotive Tant and Polymer. If a find a bad SMT Aluminum Electrolytic I can usually order a good replacement part on-line. Through hole Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors are relatively easy to buy.
Hey Ivan, if needed I could send you an install guide for the add on remote start units that are basically plug and play. I have seen this same problem with a push to start Accord that turned out to be a faulty remote start. Also try pressing lock on the factory remote 3 times. If it has an add on remote start this should activate it.
Unfortunately, my wife's 2017 Honda CRV is doing exactly the same thing. I watched both part 1 and part 2 of your diagnostics on the van. How is it possible that a vehicle with a proximity key starts itself without the key being present? Exactly what her CRV is doing. It only has 33k on it. Sadly, it's out of warranty because it's a 2017. I have no idea how much money this is going to cost to get it back up and running. Thanks for the video. Much appreciated 🙏
Guided parts cannon.... Not just the parts cannon. Big difference! But agreed, what else could it be what actually controls the keyless and starts that car?
I haven't read all the comments so don't know if this was asked/answered. Thinktool is powerful .. maybe try re-initializing the BCM right up front, before anything else?
YOUR ON THE RIGHT TRACK HAVE MANY WITH THIS ISSUE, ALWAYS A DIFFERENT ISSUE, INTERMITTENT, OR STAYS ON ALL THE TIME AND KILLS THE BATTERY. OUR ALARM GOES OFF. THE BCM HARD TI GETS TO ABOVE THE FUSE BOX, WHICH HAPPENS ACROSS ALL HONDAS NP TSB FOR THIS
I am curious as to why the dealer blamed the liftgate control module. That is a module that should have power at all times. Could it be feeding power back into the BCM? Seem like it would be a simple test to disconnect the liftgate control module when the car is acting up and see if the power to the cluster goes away.
I was going to suggest a used BCM from a salvage yard then I see you are getting a used ebay one, good thinking. I don't know how Honda has their vehicle mileage stored though, if it's in the BCM or in the cluster. I wonder if in the BCM if there is a constant 12v source that is shorting to a 12v "switched" source and is powering it up when it feels like it. Intermittent electrical issues always so much fun. Interesting that Honda has an "updated" BCM part number. On a slightly positive note Ivan, there is a company that makes computer chips that just bought a huge piece of property just north of Syracuse, NY. Could we see an end to the chip shortage by making them right here in the States? We shall see.
The sliding door not opening might not be "stupid smart cars", but a very good clue. I'd troubleshoot that, as it might lead you to the main suspect; the BCM😊
BCM is a well educated guess, maybe keyless entry module, did not look like it had any aftermarket remote start installed. Now you just have to find one, possibly reprogram a used one ?
What was so difficult about putting a key in a hole and turning it to start? The systems with a chip in a proper key were probably the most secure and reliable in my opinion.
Bcm/keyless access module common on these Hondas and Acuras to cause this same problem as well as other problems. Keyless access module is part of the bcm on this Odyssey. Alldata has good info on the system description of the keyless access system, there is no literature of your issue, but it’s common and yes the bcm has been on back order for a long time
We had a BMW that would just spontaneously lower all the windows. It especially happened within 5 minutes of parking the car. Sometimes I would turn the car off in a parking lot, get tied up on something before walking away too far, suddenly hear a whir, "What was that?" Go back to the car and all the windows were down. Other times I would return from the store only to find all the windows down. And it was raining.
I had a VW Jetta as a loaner that actually had a warning in the manual that the door handle touch pad could actually trigger the "feature" to lower all the windows if you hit it with a car wash spray in just the right pattern. You'd think they would have clued in that this indicated that "feature" wasn't thought out very well..
I had a 2019 Honda passport, all kinds of electrical issues. I had same issue as well as the vehicle would brake on its own, accelerate on its own. Rear tailgate opened with no command. Radio was an issue with noise, the dealer would do noting for me. I had less than fifteen thousand kilometers on it. Never solved it and got rid of it.
I think replacing the BCM is a good call. We had a similar problem on one of our 2016 F-150's. At random the DRL lights would come on and there was about a 20 amp draw when it was acting up with nobody inside key out and doors locked. I messed around with it and we ended up taking it to the dealer. They had it for about two months and the mechanic traced it down to no bulbs in the cargo light. The upfitters removed the bulbs when they installed the cap and he said the BCM was searching for those bulbs, couldn't find them and was acting up. There was a code for the puddle lamps. It fixed the problem when he pet the bulbs back in
Ivan, I still drive a 95 Honda passport/ Isuzu rodeo. 325k on original motor and transmission. I changed the plugs recently and decided to check compression. 170 psi on all cylinders. Last emissions test HC was 21 and CO 0.01. I've beat the piss out of it in the mountains hear in Boise. I just maintain it really well. Got lifter noise, but what 3.2 dosent. Lol
Worked in the research division of a major American automaker on engines and transmissions. We didn't drive "modern" cars. We knew better. Enough said...
I suspect you may have a difficult time convincing the rest of the modules to accept a new BCM. Reprogramming is going to become more difficult than sourcing parts. Unrelated; I enjoy all the bonus footage and smile when I see the title card
In those intermittent cases you should be able to set a trigger on a code or signal and then store as much as possible data (of as much as possible different inputs/signals to get the total picture) of the past x seconds. And nice to have, send you a message when it tripped. Is there anything like that available on the market?
Seen so many of these on Acuras, used to work at the dealer. Ends up being the Keyless Access Unit (some have TPMS built in) or BCM on the newer cars. I'm not sure if you can check with other scan tools but if you check with the HDS, in the Body Electrical > Security history. It will have an alarm trigger by the Ignition Switch.
just started watching... perhaps one idea would be to do a full scan without turning the ignition on when the car acts up. just to se what if any modules is responding... to se what modules got power and narrow it down that way.
There maybe one component to blame,the start stop switch.When new hondas are delivered you have to place the key right next to the start stop switch in order to start the car.This suggests that the swich has a reciever in it.If the switch is faulty it could start the car.I believe its not just a switch,its a complicated component.Other honda models suffer from failure of this switch.
when that Honda is parked there is a gas tank purge valve that depressors the gas tank some times they stay on , it works to depressor the gas tank even when the engine is off lol
Since the BCM is unobtanium, trying an electronics repair is a bit risky. But at least inspect it. If it's a leaky cap, the spilled electrolyte needs to be cleaned off. Maybe there's a bad solder joint, which is an easy fix. I'd cut the wire between pin 3 and pin 17, which feeds the common of the relays. Install a switch and switch it on. Wait until problem occurs. Switch the switch off and do a parasitic draw test. Or, keep switch off and do a long parasitic draw test, using a scope on a really slow time scale. If the idle/standby draws are acceptable, I'd still have all BCM functions like keyless entry, door locks and all that good stuff, while the switch will prevent power-up, when off. If parasitic draws still occur, then the modules are keeping each other awake and the switch will need to cut power to major parts of the HAAT feeds in the car, unfortunately. Then I'd fix the wire between 3 and 17 and install the switch between the HAAT feeds. Knowing myself, I'd add a warning buzzer with series diode, between this switched HAAT and the main 'ON' bus. Diode points towards 'ON'. But I'd probably make it fancy, using a pushbutton switch with a latching relay with off delay timer, so it will switch off the 'HAAT' feeds after 10 minutes after shutting down the car. When DIY'ing such fix, do quality work using quality parts. You don't want your car to totally quit on you, including horn and all lights. In the dark. On the highway at 80mph.
I'm surprised the local dealer didn't come the same conclusion you did. I work at an Acura dealer(not all of us are useless haha). This has been an issue on Hondas for years. In the past on push-button Hondas, the control for IGN circuits in the fuse relay box were grounded by the keyless access control unit. Symptoms were flickering lights, IGN triggering alarm and killing battery, etc etc. Something on the the control circuits internally would intermittently short out. When they went to BCM controlled IGN circuits, the problem was not as common but it still occurred. I've done a few RDX BCMs(which I think is a very similar system to a Honda Odyssey) for similar symptoms, and they all were multi-month backorders. I'm curious if the MICU security data has any stored alarm events triggered by IG1 or IG2.
We saw that a lot at the Acura dealer I used to work at. Up until the rona crushed the labor force we would keep several bcm's and keyless access units in stock
In the past, Honda outsourced clusters to Ford/Visteon. Remember a cluster that would heat load resisters to the point they desoldered and dropped from the board. Apparently quality wasn't Job 1...
Try resetting the bcm by disconecting both positive and negative on battery and take 1jumper cable and connect positive and negative leads to engine together for 20mins and do these steps in reverse and bcm should go back to factory default settings, therefore fixing your problem. U r welcome.
I think I know where that dent came from on the drivers front fender. I think it's called a frustration dent. I've witnessed a few a few of them in my lifetime. Can you disable the BCM, or disable the signal buss from the BCM and see if the issue still happens?
have a 2018 Ridgeline. same platform than Odyssey. I have similar electronic symptoms. intermittent clicking and flashing of infotainment. I removed the TPMS (Hondas name for BCM) and inspected it for cracked solder joints. Here in Canada they quoted me $1000 dollars for this module installed and was in backorder for at least 3 months. I said no. went back home. then gave it a good clean to the grounds of this module with electronic cleaner. Also, you wouldn’t believe it but also give it a good clean to the push start button. I have been problem free for 3 months. before this the alarm would go off at least twice a day and the cluster will start flashing and numerous relays would start clicking like a possessed car.
I've had a very similar case study like this one. 2003 escape. Ultimately came down to finding that the instrument cluster had a bad diode, leaking voltage into the ignition power circuit that backfed the control side of a relay keeping that relay latched, providing power to the vehicle keeping the vehicle running. my move is exactly what you're doing in the bonus footage. These ones are always a challenge lol. (I actually ripped apart that instrument cluster and replaced the smc diode on the board and got the customer their car back vs throwing in a reman or used. pretty sweet)
Wow you certainly know your stuff but how many hours labour did you spend doing that.
@@deniscarr469 Very, very good point. If my memory isn't crap, 2-3 hours to narrow it down to the cluster. Then about 30min-1hr testing on the board and fixing it. Luckily the diode had a witness mark so it was easy to tell where the magic pixies went 🤣 add another two hours for a trip to fry's electronics (may they rest in peace) and reassembly. Definitely didn't charge them enough to cover a whole day project. Think I did diag, an hour for r+r, and $100 for the cluster fix. Eh, you win some, you lose some. Lady still comes back to see me every time she's got a problem though. Hard to come by in a woman, loyalty. 🤣
Hello Iven, i smiled and clicked your video as soon as i saw the thumbnail! A new BCM will fix this car, i've been through a 2018 elite with the exact same symptoms and that was the fix. I am actually surprised it only took you an hour to reach that conclusion hence it took me a full day to make the call 😅. You are an excellent tech, and i am glade you decided to share your knowledge with the community. Good luck
Give it an exorcist. Walk around the car screaming: Get out of this car, the power of Chrysler compels you.
Underrated comment here folks. Well done. Hahahaa.
This or get another one there and beat the everliving crap out of it. Then say and you're next if you don't stop it! "Stupid smart cars..." indeed.
LMFAO...ROFLMAO
Maybe a catholic priest can intervene
The car gave the owner a Fiat
I love how the owner detected when it powered up by itself using the loud radio. Pure genius!
This is not an isolated instance, other Honda owners of similar age models (e.g. Civic, Pilot, CRV) have experienced the same symptoms and have either had the BCM replaced or are waiting for them to become available. There are a few people saying the keyless entry module was the cause, this is much cheaper and available so may be worth a look.
The transmitter control module went bad on my Acura, and caused similar issues
As a Honda Technician, if we have a vehicle that powers itself on by itself (usually also comes with intermittent alarm), and we see the gauge cluster turned on with the key nowhere near the vehicle, we know it's a BCM issue. Also for IGN1 alarms where the car sets off its alarm randomly by itself. On some models its the keyless entry instead of the BCM, but I believe that's really only on the Pilots. Basically whichever module controls 'turning on' the car when the start button is pressed, is the culprit.
Hey Ivan. I ran into this same problem with a 2017 crv a year ago. The BCM was unavailable.(still isn't) That really sucks for the customer. I even opened up the module to inspect for a possible manufacturing error. Found nothing. I do automotive electrical and diagnostic work for a living, and your right, the newer these cars get, the harder it is to find modules should they go bad. Good luck with your odyssey. My temporary solution was a constant duty solenoid to power up the micu/BCM.
Hi Ivan, I've been working in the field for 15 years and for the last year I've been watching all your videos, I've learned a lot and I apply it in my work too, you help me a lot, thank you. Your videos are great and I always watch them with an interesting, healthy and very happy look. Greetings from Israel :)
I had something like this on a 1981 Ford Thunderbird Heritage Edition. This car had the electronic dashboard and things I had never seen in a car before. The interior lights and the dashboard were coming on by themselves. Now, this is long before any modern electronics or canbus or anything. I had a repair manual that was for the electrical and it contained flow charts. I messed with that thing for 2 days. It would be sitting outside and the interior lights would come on and the dashboard would light up. Turned out to be a bad lighting control module that was backfeeding through the ignition. This video reminds me of that. Great video!
All the symptoms are pointing to a problem at the BCM. Either a faulty connection to, or a faulty module itself. It is really difficult to tell at this point, but I can't argue with your hypothesis either as it does seem that the BCM is the most probable suspect. Something that caught my attention though was, there is an "updated" part listing for the BCM on a 5-year-old vehicle. Not an identical replacement part. And no related TSB's on it. Just something that makes you go humm? I am looking forward to part 2.
Miss the good old days when you could climb into the engine compartment to do repairs, actually see the spark plugs before you remove them, change a headlight for 5 bucks and a tail light for 50 cents, 7 dollars for a wheel bearing instead of 250 for a hub assembly.
The good old days when head lights had the brightness of a firefly in a mason jar, a 5.7l v8 made 120hp, a mid size family car got 14 mpg, and if you hit anything you were instantly killed.
@@JackS425 you know it
Amen.
@@JackS425 Yeah, good old days when $1/hour was a good wage.
Welcome to 2022 and new technology
Your event gives credence to fears of artifical intelligence going amok.
It is always an 'adventure' when you share your troubleshooting. And you always seem to encounter the most perplexing of problems.
Hi Ivan.You're making the right call in the circumstances. Financially it's a no brainer - change BCM. From the customer's point of view he/she could end up paying for hours and hours of diagnostic time for no result.
I own a 2018 Odyssey with almost identical symptoms including the weird “lost power to alarm..” message on screen. It is very intermittent but the car has left me at least 5 times with a dead battery. I’m in SoCal and car has
Must be infuriating. Just out of warranty.....or is it? Is there dust in or on the connections? Maybe a lot of thieves are just driving around trying codes or seeing whose lights come on. Maybe drive in a different area.......
Ivan, you have us as perplexed as you must be feeling right now. Just changed the oil in my 97 Dodge Truck and 02 Caravan. Can't say I'm really ready for what the automotive future looks like right now. Hope to get a some more time on the vehicles I have now. Trick or Treat? Thanks for Sharing!
I feel your pain on Honda parts availability. My sister-in-laws 2018 Fit was rear ended in late December 2021. Took until August 2022 to get all the parts to repair it!
Ive seen this befor on my friends 2015 Colorado, he didn't fix it and problem got worse , eventually got to the point of engine starting and running by itself.. He had a rear leaking window that sometimes caused alot of moisture inside and I figured that may have somehow ruined the bcm. Replaced BCM and he hasn't had any problems since. So i believe you made the right call PH.
This seems very similar to an issue my dad had with his 2018 Ridgeline. Honda has a service bulletin to replace the keyless access control unit. The alarm would also go off for no reason at times. Parts were not available for the ridgeline, the dealership turned off the smart lock feature and the issue has not returned.
I'm curious to know, if the brake pedal was held down would the car actually start? Time for an experiment
@@soundman6241
I don't think so. It has been a few months ago. After the auto lock feature was turned off, everything worked normally.
Apparently Honda has the biggest problem with parts...buy an alternator while you can get it - you'll need it.
Great work Ivan and looking forward to part B:)
You have a thing for weird cases, Ivan :-) It seems like a very educated guess to get a new BCM!
IMHO, a leaking capacitor can bridge tracks of a PCB and pass low current intermittent signals where they shouldn't go (e.g., the base of a sensitive transistor) making something act out of control, as you have there. So, the BCM being the only module providing power, ground and control voltage to the 4 relays, has got to be the culprit. Can't wait for Part 2 :-)
If it were my car and the part was that hard to get, I'd be opening the BCM to see if I could find the problem. Perhaps I could fix it. But there's also a good chance I'd at least see something wrong which assures me that this is the problem. Really, this problem doesn't feel like the computer itself, but I can believe that damage to the drivers could do it. In other words, this feels more like a green crusty problem than something requiring a logic analyzer.
Leaking capacitors rotting into the PCB on a 5 year old car? Possible but far less likely than with something a lot older. Green crusties otoh can happen to a brand new car. We went through a time when all capacitors in all products were suspect at any age. A whole mystery novel could be written about the cause of that one. Regarding Honda, this problem did attack my 1991 Acura in the ICU (intergrated control unit, 1991speak for a body module) causing the intermittent wipers to be...uh...intermittent. Then it went further and pretty soon you could turn on the left blinker and the right headlight would flash. 🤣🤣🤣I found a used ICU on EBAY, which was the only option at the time and it had the same problem but I was able o fix that one.
Once you get a reputation that proceeds you, stuff like this becomes the normal....
@@additudeobx I can say from experience that you are correct.
@@InsideOfMyOwnMind Water in the ECU could do much the same.
Ivan good call.(maybe)
In the early 1980s Volvo had a similar problem with the Volvo 340 CVT model.
If you left the car and closed the drivers door sometimes the car would start and if you left it in
gear the car would start up and drive away !!!!.
They introduced and new fuse box( now called BCM) and a different gear lever with a buzzer fitted to try
a warn people to not leave it in gear.
Agreed!! In this case I would say the bcm has for whatever reason has said see ya. Looking forward to part 2.
Intermittents are such fun! I've had them before, some take many days to locate. The wiring diagram was
the main helper along with one DMM and one Fluke 98 scope in DMM mode.
No green crusties, but a lot of heat related problems that caused the Intermittents. A heat gun sometimes helped.
You'll find it.
Odysseys, Pilots, Ridgeline, CRV and Civic all could have this issue. Correct with BCM diagnosis. Check alarm history and see if "ignition switch" was a alarm trigger. It's usually a good indication of BCM ghosting ignition to run position. I have waited over 8+ months to get BCM from Honda. Try and source a used unit. Be sure parts numbers are correct. They have different part numbers for different trim lines in the same year. As far as I know they are not flashable to different trim lines. Good content Ivan. Thanks,
You know Ivan, putting a kill switch wired to the BCM would be a cheaper solution to the problem AND I think also a great theft deterrent. If a crook steals the FOB RF signal, there will be no way in hell they could steal the vehicle. I know push button start and theft is a huge problem for Toyota but all push button start cars are susceptible.
You mentioned adding a switch. How about turning off the Batt supply to the BCM? Maybe try that as a test first? Hoping to see a solution in part 2. Thanks for this part.
This reminds me of a similar case I had with a 2015 BMW F20 1 series. The fuel pump would start running full speed at random when the car was parked and should be asleep. Eventually causing the battery to be discharged over night.
The fuel pump is controlled by a fuel pump control modules that regulates the fuel pump speed based on fuel demand coming from the engine control unit. A BMW dealership already replaced the fuel pump control module to no avail.
When it came to me I knew that the fuel pump should only be running at 100% if the fuel pump module is awake but has no communication with the engine control unit. Looking at a diagram it has a wakeup line. When it was acting up the wakeup line was raised to 12v thus waking up the module even though the engine control unit wasn't requesting fuel flow, causing it to start running at full speed. Looking at the diagram I disconnected every module on that wakeup line one by one and determined the FEM (Front Electronics Module, basically like a BCM controls everything like ignition, lighting, power windows, door locks, starter relay etc. ) was outputting 12v on the wakeup line when it shouldn't. I was ready to call the FEM until I found not a single used unit with Comfort Access like the car had and a new one from the dealer was way out of the customers budget. With that in mind I decided to dig a little deeper. When it acted up again I started removing connectors from the FEM one by one and noticed when I pulled 3 specific connectors out of the 10 that were connected to the FEM the fuel pump turned back off. Looking at pinouts for those connectors nothing looked really interesting except for a wakeup line going exclusively to the instrument cluster. I had noticed that when the car acted up the indicator lights on the cluster would light up. And what do you know, when pulling the pin for the cluster wakeup line out of the connector and reinserting the connector into the FEM the fuel pump remained silent. I reinserted that pin and just disconnected the the connector at the back of the cluster. Left the car for 2 days and 2 nights. Battery wasn't drained while it would be dead every morning cause of the fuel pump issue. Got a used instrument cluster, virginised it, programmed it to the car and the problem was solved. Sometimes you've just gotta know how the system works and dig a little deeper even though the answer looks straight forward. It might not be.
Great diagnostics process 👌🙂
Does the car have "On-Star" type capability that can remotely start the car (without the key being needed)? Maybe that system has gone haywire. Also, I noticed a big dent on the driver side front fender. Maybe the car was in an accident and some wires got got messed with? Looking forward to Part 2, Ivan!!!
Love it Ivan!" Stupid smart cars" and cannot open the rear sliding door.
We fixed a couple pilots doing that At the dealership those two pilots would also sound the alarm of course conveniently at 1 o’clock in the morning lol
BCM was faulty? What year?
@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics 17 Pilot Elite Smart power control unit module and I miss spoke earlier it was a 17 or 18 Ridgeline. Smart power control unit. I didn’t look at our interactive network site I’m not sure if odyssey even uses this module but it certainly affects pilots I believe even a civic it would just turn the key on and sometimes you could not even turn it off with the button but I could be off Mark on this one I’m not sure if that Odyssey uses the smart module or not On the pilot it’s on the passenger side flip down the glove box mounted with one bolt below the airbag.
OOOOO bete wah bete wah moj krde tune toh bade heavy driver ho bahi tum toh !! In the end Very good Diag Ivan appreciated it buddy!
BCM Is the correct educated guess, I'm seeing this issue more often lately. Only dealer tool will be able to program the new BCM/Used. There is no flashing for the New or used BCM only immo needs to be learnt, Original keys can be reused. Used Bcm with same part number can also be used.
Well, at least we all now know why the dealer recommended a new tail gate module. They knew they couldnt get a BCM. lol!!
My 2014 Ford F-150 has the ECU (electric control unit) turns lights and ignition on and drains the battery overnight. I have had it to the dealer under warranty numerous times and they can't find anything wrong. It is a fairly common problem with Fords but the dealers won't acknowledge it. You are correct in your assessment of "stupid smart cars" I work on classic cars, points, plugs and condensers. And I can fix things not just throw parts at a car like the dealer techs do.
Part of me would wonder if there is a key hiding somewhere. I’d delete out any keys but what you have, Just in case. There should be an encryption code shared between the ecm/bcm for each key that should be needed to power up the car. Replacing the BCM should invalidate the keys, and would also cause the same outcome.
It will be interesting if you can pair the bcm/ecm or if a dealer will have to do it.
The car would be able to start if there is another key inside, and it can't.
I had found a set of fobs with factory build sheet while detailing my Chevy truck. They were between upper back seat and cab wall. I saw a little piece of plastic hanging down and didn't know what it was until I kept pulling at it to get it out.
With a computer involved, anything can happen. All it takes is a tiny leakage current to common in a capacitor tied to a processor input normally pulled high, or a switch mode power supply or power converter with too much AC ripple. Somewhere, there is a logic 0 or logic 1 that turns on the ignition, and whether that tiny signal should be high or low, it doesn't take much to change it. I think you get these cases because of your superior intellect and logical thinking.
Honda possessed by devil 😬
Who you gonna call ? Pine Hollow Ghostbuster 😂
Go ahead and change the bcm, and trust your work, and yes cars are becoming disposable items!, I hate this start stop gizmos. Looking forward to the next vid
Hey. Great video...my 2013 Honda Pilot 55,000 mi also was possessed. Navigation and radio constantly rebooted, headlights flash, close object warning flashes. All without the key present...and it would not start ...$2300 later it was a bad micu and 2 shorts in the wiring harness. omg
Yeah I agree parts especially one containing logic boards have been hard to source. Leading to more eeprom work. But on that note would live to see what's inside that BCM Making it go crazy 🤪 maybe corrupt firmware or logic? Or ? Hopefully we could get to see a "no parts needed" fix! Lol. But seriously this is an interesting case study. Thanks fir sharing!
I've seen this once. The owner put a spare key in a magnetic hide- a- key under the car. After market ebay key of course...... It would get wet and yup! Took weeks to pry that info out of customer.
Keyless access module. We’ve seen a lot of them on the Acura side. If the alarm was set, the alarm would go off and store a “IG1” as the trigger device.
This should have been your Halloween special series.
How do u charge customers for diags like this? I’ve been watching u for a long time so I kno u have looked into a lot of symptoms when u technically were not working on the car. This is one that u were prolly think about off hours. And I love how u think this stuff is fun. I would be pulling the little bit of hair out that I have left. Ur a wizard Ivan we need more people like u
We'll discuss billing in Part 2 👍
I agree with your diagnosis but one problem I see is that let say the bcm is (seeing the key ) and turning the ignition on. I would think the car would start when pressing on the brake and pushing the start button when the ignition is on. Also I noticed what appears to be the red security light flashing on the cluster when the ignition comes on. I’m not disagreeing with you but It would be hard to call it the bcm when the fuse box could cause this too. Only way to tell is to isolate the ignition control feeds from the bcm to the fuse box. I enjoy your videos
Nearly a year ago our Ford had a problem. Towed to a dealer and waited a month for parts. Corporate said they don't have an ETA for parts and, at the time, the dealer said he had about 10 cars waiting for parts. Had to purchase a new car. Fortunately, a dealer gave us book price for our non-running, but warrantied car. Are we still blaming covid for this?
Great video. Thanks
What device actually reads the presence of the key inside the vehicle? Is that device directly connected to the ignition button? My thought is if those two items are part of the same module behind the dash, then the BCM could be ok and that button-and-antenna module could be telling stories to the BCM. On the other hand, if they're completely separate, then it's more likely to be a fault in the BCM itself. Guess we'll see in part deux.
2019 Honda Odyssey elite 90K milesl, so initially, the Lane detection camera ($700 part) has been bad, but I have been driving it anyway for months buying time. However, now the car will not shut off? I think it is unrelated to the many lane camera error messages. I had to pull the battery cable off to stop the engine; then it that reset computer (?)and it started it fine, seemed ok. Locked it up and went to bed only to wake up to the horn alarm going off later! The key remote didn't work to turn off the alarm!. So I had to use the 'real key' inside the fob to open the door the old fashion way. I found out if I don't lock it the security system won't go off like that. However, the accessory power still comes on by itself!! I caught it twice but now my battery is dead or drained from the accessory going on. I see other's pointing to the ignition switch as the cause. I will update.
the fact that their is a updated bcm makes a lot of sense
Yeah when you see a revised part and it’s also backordered it’s usually a telltale sign something is up.
I had a crv a while back that was a parasitic draw. This new town i moved into has a big problem with draws. I went 6 years as a tech in my hometown and only ever had 1 parasitic draw that was something real easy that i have forgotten what it was. Here I've had like 5-6 cars with draws in the year i have lived here. Anyways this crv at first I found the radio was staying on. My draw went away when I unplugged it so I replaced the radio. Supposedly that wasn't the fix when the customer returned about 3 months later saying he was still having a dead battery. It then took a few visits to the shop because he would need the vehicle to get to work and couldn't leave it for any reasonable length of time but I finally found that the MICU/BCM was actually the issue and was keeping the Radio on at all times. I dug deeper when I found that new radio was staying on again. Lesson learned. Anyways all that to say that the BCM for that car took 5 months to get and same thing I think it was a 2015-2018. Somewhere around there
Double bonus footage, Ivan?! You spoil us! But yeah, this "supply chain" nonsense is getting on everyone's nerves... Even if the world didn't use a J-I-T logistics system, (though it didn't help!) I wonder if warehousing could have smoothed out all this...
It is crazy to think the vehicle will just turn itself into the KOEO (Key On Engine Off) position when not commanded by the appropriate means. You would think the vehicle's security programming at a minimum would prevent this from happening unless a number of specific conditions being met, all these being external commands being received and validated. IE: the key being close enough to the vehicle's receiver, the key AND the receiver doing the necessary validation checks AND the start button being pushed once to place the vehicle in KOEO position. These are essentially three "AND" functions, ie must happen, no if's or buts.
I know software can do crazy things, however if it were a software issue, then reloading the modules software should fix this. I don't even think a software issue can cause something to operate that requires a number of external commands/functions to happen first. It seems unlikely it is a module manufacturing issue as there would be an extremely large amount of reported vehicles with the same issue. Like all things, modules are made in batches, the manufacturing error will be in a complete batch at a minimum, with the appropriate forum coverage and hopefully manufacturer recall. This is a crazy issue.
I agree with your decision to replace the module, in reality what is there to check, Powers & Grounds seem okay, there are no connectors between the relays and the modules & grounds, the start button would not cause this, it won't even be active until the BCM enables it in the first instance. Everything is pointing to the BCM and whatever is in there to enable the KOEO position. Even a lost key somewhere in the vehicle wont do anything unless the BCM sees it AND the stop/start button is pressed. Even if there was a lost key, when you program a new key, you reprogram the old keys so the lost key ceases t function in that vehicle.
I really am looking forward to the outcome, even if it is a case of "the new BCM worked, the customer has not reported an issue since the new BCM was installed" I do however hope Honda is keen on exploring the issue even if it means shipping the old BCM to their technical engineering division.
Sorry for the ultra long post, I couldn't make it shorter.
If you could monitor battery current with a deep memory scope or logger and trigger at an amp above sleep current (with some pre-trigger data), you might see a current signature that could be used to understand a possible module sequence of events (current draw magnitude unique to each module or load). Maybe you could determine what module turned on first.
My troubleshooting approach is much like yours, although having an electronic repair bench (microscope, soldering stations, etc.) available to me, I will take apart a suspect module and inspect it before replacing it. You can find uncommon failures and many times, if you have access to a electronics parts inventory (TH and SMT), you can fix the module if the problem is not related to a custom IC.
An obvious failure mode is a cracked solder joint or PCB trace, and relay contacts if the vehicle is older. But many times you may have a single SMT component fail. For example, a stacked design SMT ceramic capacitor which can crack and fail short, open or intermittent. I keep a small inventory of the most common high reliability automotive chip capacitors (NP0 and X7R) with features like; soft end termination, AEC-200 Qualification, etc. in 0402, 0603, and 0805, with some larger values in 1206. I also have an inventory of automotive Tant and Polymer. If a find a bad SMT Aluminum Electrolytic I can usually order a good replacement part on-line. Through hole Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors are relatively easy to buy.
Hey Ivan, if needed I could send you an install guide for the add on remote start units that are basically plug and play. I have seen this same problem with a push to start Accord that turned out to be a faulty remote start. Also try pressing lock on the factory remote 3 times. If it has an add on remote start this should activate it.
Yeah, it's gotta be a remote start issue. Nothing else should be physically able to do this, this way.
Checking for a remote start add-on is an great idea.
Ivan, you should have saved this "Haunted Odyssey" series for the end of October. Oh well, perhaps you will get another haunted vehicle by then. 😁
Ooooh this is a good one. Love these mystery videos, haunted mystery video.
Hi Ivan, have you checked that the spare key is not in the glove box, or under the seat etc?
Had it been in an accident? I did notice a dent.
Unfortunately, my wife's 2017 Honda CRV is doing exactly the same thing. I watched both part 1 and part 2 of your diagnostics on the van. How is it possible that a vehicle with a proximity key starts itself without the key being present? Exactly what her CRV is doing. It only has 33k on it. Sadly, it's out of warranty because it's a 2017. I have no idea how much money this is going to cost to get it back up and running. Thanks for the video. Much appreciated 🙏
Good luck. New Hondas can suck sometimes lol
Guided parts cannon.... Not just the parts cannon. Big difference! But agreed, what else could it be what actually controls the keyless and starts that car?
I haven't read all the comments so don't know if this was asked/answered. Thinktool is powerful .. maybe try re-initializing the BCM right up front, before anything else?
I never heard of that tool before.
Supply for parts for almost everything is terrible. So curious about the back story on the banned from the dealer thing. Funny.
YOUR ON THE RIGHT TRACK HAVE MANY WITH THIS ISSUE, ALWAYS A DIFFERENT ISSUE, INTERMITTENT, OR STAYS ON ALL THE TIME AND KILLS THE BATTERY. OUR ALARM GOES OFF. THE BCM HARD TI GETS TO ABOVE THE FUSE BOX, WHICH HAPPENS ACROSS ALL HONDAS NP TSB FOR THIS
I am curious as to why the dealer blamed the liftgate control module. That is a module that should have power at all times. Could it be feeding power back into the BCM? Seem like it would be a simple test to disconnect the liftgate control module when the car is acting up and see if the power to the cluster goes away.
Wow! Something new to Keith? That's a goodie😁
I was going to suggest a used BCM from a salvage yard then I see you are getting a used ebay one, good thinking. I don't know how Honda has their vehicle mileage stored though, if it's in the BCM or in the cluster. I wonder if in the BCM if there is a constant 12v source that is shorting to a 12v "switched" source and is powering it up when it feels like it. Intermittent electrical issues always so much fun. Interesting that Honda has an "updated" BCM part number.
On a slightly positive note Ivan, there is a company that makes computer chips that just bought a huge piece of property just north of Syracuse, NY. Could we see an end to the chip shortage by making them right here in the States? We shall see.
The sliding door not opening might not be "stupid smart cars", but a very good clue. I'd troubleshoot that, as it might lead you to the main suspect; the BCM😊
Or turn off the child lock switch
Is there another key flob in the vehicle somewhere dash under the seat.
BCM is a well educated guess, maybe keyless entry module, did not look like it had any aftermarket remote start installed. Now you just have to find one, possibly reprogram a used one ?
One of the first crazy ideas i had looking at this, is what if one of the owners lost the second key somewhere inside the car...?
Would it not turn on the BCM all the time rather than intermittently?
What was so difficult about putting a key in a hole and turning it to start?
The systems with a chip in a proper key were probably the most secure and reliable in my opinion.
Bcm/keyless access module common on these Hondas and Acuras to cause this same problem as well as other problems. Keyless access module is part of the bcm on this Odyssey. Alldata has good info on the system description of the keyless access system, there is no literature of your issue, but it’s common and yes the bcm has been on back order for a long time
We had a BMW that would just spontaneously lower all the windows. It especially happened within 5 minutes of parking the car. Sometimes I would turn the car off in a parking lot, get tied up on something before walking away too far, suddenly hear a whir, "What was that?" Go back to the car and all the windows were down. Other times I would return from the store only to find all the windows down. And it was raining.
I had a VW Jetta as a loaner that actually had a warning in the manual that the door handle touch pad could actually trigger the "feature" to lower all the windows if you hit it with a car wash spray in just the right pattern. You'd think they would have clued in that this indicated that "feature" wasn't thought out very well..
I had a 2019 Honda passport, all kinds of electrical issues. I had same issue as well as the vehicle would brake on its own, accelerate on its own. Rear tailgate opened with no command. Radio was an issue with noise, the dealer would do noting for me. I had less than fifteen thousand kilometers on it. Never solved it and got rid of it.
Wow what a lemon lol
I think replacing the BCM is a good call. We had a similar problem on one of our 2016 F-150's. At random the DRL lights would come on and there was about a 20 amp draw when it was acting up with nobody inside key out and doors locked. I messed around with it and we ended up taking it to the dealer. They had it for about two months and the mechanic traced it down to no bulbs in the cargo light. The upfitters removed the bulbs when they installed the cap and he said the BCM was searching for those bulbs, couldn't find them and was acting up. There was a code for the puddle lamps. It fixed the problem when he pet the bulbs back in
Ivan, I still drive a 95 Honda passport/ Isuzu rodeo. 325k on original motor and transmission. I changed the plugs recently and decided to check compression. 170 psi on all cylinders. Last emissions test HC was 21 and CO 0.01. I've beat the piss out of it in the mountains hear in Boise. I just maintain it really well. Got lifter noise, but what 3.2 dosent. Lol
That's a cool truck. Respected durable 4x4 in the Russian boonies too 😀
Ivan, you should have saved this one for Halloween!
Worked in the research division of a major American automaker on engines and transmissions. We didn't drive "modern" cars. We knew better. Enough said...
Your guess is just as good as mine..
I suspect you may have a difficult time convincing the rest of the modules to accept a new BCM.
Reprogramming is going to become more difficult than sourcing parts.
Unrelated; I enjoy all the bonus footage and smile when I see the title card
When a dealer bans you, you're doing something right.
WOW Keith hasn't seen this problem. I am telling you. You and I need to keep an exorcist on standby!
In those intermittent cases you should be able to set a trigger on a code or signal and then store as much as possible data (of as much as possible different inputs/signals to get the total picture) of the past x seconds. And nice to have, send you a message when it tripped. Is there anything like that available on the market?
Seen so many of these on Acuras, used to work at the dealer. Ends up being the Keyless Access Unit (some have TPMS built in) or BCM on the newer cars. I'm not sure if you can check with other scan tools but if you check with the HDS, in the Body Electrical > Security history. It will have an alarm trigger by the Ignition Switch.
just started watching... perhaps one idea would be to do a full scan without turning the ignition on when the car acts up. just to se what if any modules is responding... to se what modules got power and narrow it down that way.
Welcome to “Pine SPOOKY Hollow Diagnostics”! Hay-oh!!! Admit it Ivan you laughed. Crazy symptoms and initial part 1.
There maybe one component to blame,the start stop switch.When new hondas are delivered you have to place the key right next to the start stop switch in order to start the car.This suggests that the swich has a reciever in it.If the switch is faulty it could start the car.I believe its not just a switch,its a complicated component.Other honda models suffer from failure of this switch.
when that Honda is parked there is a gas tank purge valve that depressors the gas tank some times they stay on , it works to depressor the gas tank even when the engine is off lol
Since the BCM is unobtanium, trying an electronics repair is a bit risky. But at least inspect it. If it's a leaky cap, the spilled electrolyte needs to be cleaned off. Maybe there's a bad solder joint, which is an easy fix.
I'd cut the wire between pin 3 and pin 17, which feeds the common of the relays. Install a switch and switch it on. Wait until problem occurs. Switch the switch off and do a parasitic draw test. Or, keep switch off and do a long parasitic draw test, using a scope on a really slow time scale.
If the idle/standby draws are acceptable, I'd still have all BCM functions like keyless entry, door locks and all that good stuff, while the switch will prevent power-up, when off.
If parasitic draws still occur, then the modules are keeping each other awake and the switch will need to cut power to major parts of the HAAT feeds in the car, unfortunately. Then I'd fix the wire between 3 and 17 and install the switch between the HAAT feeds.
Knowing myself, I'd add a warning buzzer with series diode, between this switched HAAT and the main 'ON' bus. Diode points towards 'ON'.
But I'd probably make it fancy, using a pushbutton switch with a latching relay with off delay timer, so it will switch off the 'HAAT' feeds after 10 minutes after shutting down the car.
When DIY'ing such fix, do quality work using quality parts. You don't want your car to totally quit on you, including horn and all lights. In the dark. On the highway at 80mph.
I like the manual switch on the common wire idea 👌🙂
I'm surprised the local dealer didn't come the same conclusion you did. I work at an Acura dealer(not all of us are useless haha). This has been an issue on Hondas for years. In the past on push-button Hondas, the control for IGN circuits in the fuse relay box were grounded by the keyless access control unit. Symptoms were flickering lights, IGN triggering alarm and killing battery, etc etc. Something on the the control circuits internally would intermittently short out. When they went to BCM controlled IGN circuits, the problem was not as common but it still occurred. I've done a few RDX BCMs(which I think is a very similar system to a Honda Odyssey) for similar symptoms, and they all were multi-month backorders.
I'm curious if the MICU security data has any stored alarm events triggered by IG1 or IG2.
We saw that a lot at the Acura dealer I used to work at. Up until the rona crushed the labor force we would keep several bcm's and keyless access units in stock
Good idea about the security events, that is also how we locate intermittent draws on Fords.
In the past, Honda outsourced clusters to Ford/Visteon. Remember a cluster that would heat load resisters to the point they desoldered and dropped from the board. Apparently quality wasn't Job 1...
Did Ford design the module? How do you know it's manufacturing and not a design issue? Oh..I know, anything to bang on Ford...got it...
Try resetting the bcm by disconecting both positive and negative on battery and take 1jumper cable and connect positive and negative leads to engine together for 20mins and do these steps in reverse and bcm should go back to factory default settings, therefore fixing your problem. U r welcome.
Ivan, why has the local dealer banned you? 🤔🤔
Looking forward to part 2 btw!
If Keith hasn't heard of it you know it's a good one
kill switch will work, very nice explanation, did you check for any aftermarket stuff...it happens to me In a Toyota tundra (aftermarket immobilizer)
hey Ivan can you use your thermal imager to look at any heat signatures?
Not sure what I would image though 🤔
Spare Key in the glovebox ?
I think I know where that dent came from on the drivers front fender. I think it's called a frustration dent.
I've witnessed a few a few of them in my lifetime.
Can you disable the BCM, or disable the signal buss from the BCM and see if the issue still happens?
my same thought
I just finished explaining to my wife that the newest car we should buy should be a 2016.
I’m seeing more and more “weird”newer 2017+ car problems.
have a 2018 Ridgeline. same platform than Odyssey. I have similar electronic symptoms. intermittent clicking and flashing of infotainment. I removed the TPMS (Hondas name for BCM) and inspected it for cracked solder joints. Here in Canada they quoted me $1000 dollars for this module installed and was in backorder for at least 3 months. I said no. went back home. then gave it a good clean to the grounds of this module with electronic cleaner. Also, you wouldn’t believe it but also give it a good clean to the push start button. I have been problem free for 3 months. before this the alarm would go off at least twice a day and the cluster will start flashing and numerous relays would start clicking like a possessed car.
That big dent on the front driver's side might play a part in this scenario.