American Reacts Why The US Prison System Is The Worst In The Developed World
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- Опубликовано: 31 окт 2022
- Original Video: • Why The US Prison Syst...
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Being deprived of your freedom is already the punishment. A prison doesnt have to treat its inmates badly, in any way. People, even you, dont realize how hard it is to be locked up already. Treating prisonners badly because "it is not a holiday camp" just shows ignorance
Your first sentence shows the difference of perspective - inprison is not ment to be a punishment, but way of eliminating a potentially dangerous individual from society. This perspective shift also changes how people view capital punishment. It's an important thing to be mindful of when discussing law
@@GdzieJestNemo in another comment i actually wrote that the role of prison is both protecting society and preparing a person to change Its ways
Agree. I've always found it interesting how someone being sentences to prison in some countries equals being sentences to prison + humiliation etc. Not sure I know anyone outside of a prison who by humiliation and punishment turns into a stable well functioning citizen. And sure don't see why it would be any different for someone inside a prison. 🤔🤔
@@GdzieJestNemo You cannot write "its important to be mindful when discussing law" and then say imprisonment is not punishment but way of eliminating anyone. That's not even remotely true with modern standards, literature or tbh not with not so modern models - that's why you get sentenced for years, not decades. That's why you get rehabilitation groups, open or half-open prisons. That's why imprisonment is biggest and most popular PUNISHMENT metod after fining offenders.
@@tomekgulash you missed my point, which was that imprisonment cannot be looked only in terms of punishment of a individual
in any other country a US prison would be called a forced labour camp
Gulag 🙂
In my country sweden it's called double punishment and it's illegal
They are called museums in Finland.
Justice is not about revenge. Torturing a murderer doesnt help anyone. Not the victim's family, not society. Prison has two goals :
- protecting society by keeping dangerous people away
- transforming those people for when they come out. And the vast majority of inmates, even murderers can avoid reoffending
I might be in the minority here, but I would have nothing against watching a murderer getting tortured. And I say this as a Norwegian.
@@gullfiber2010 well maybe you should seek help
@@gullfiber2010 well Magnus perhaps you're a lot closer to a murderer than most of us.
"even murderers can avoid reoffending". That is such a comfort, but in case the experiment fails, I hope their second victim is you rather than me, bro..............
@@gullfiber2010 But that doesn't help you nor our society at all. If judgment was passed and a murder is ultimately meant to be released back to society after prison time is over, than this person will return to society. If you do nothing to change this convicts behavior and not "correct" him, than you'll end up setting a very dangerous person free, who also was mistreated during his prison time. A wunderful mixture of ingredients for future horrors. Congratualtions.
At the age of 23 I got 6 years here in the UK, while in prison I took education classes and gained several qualifications upon release I found a job within 2 months and never looked back. I am now in my fifties and I am so thankful for the chances I was given and I never reoffended being locked away from everything and everyone you hold dear is enough punishment in itself prisons should be there for rehabilitation and to teach inmates how to thrive in society not come out hating the system and wanting payback which is exactly what you get if you mistreat people.
Near fifty. I got 7 chances and i took the last one of them, long time ago. I was asked to be a candidate in two elections by three major parties last year. I never did time, community service was the last step and haven't committed crimes since (no violent crimes, i've never even hit a person.. i am good at talking people out of stupid ideas, which is kind of the reason why i was asked..). I am committed to do good for the society, the society has treated me well, all things considered. I feel that i owe it. And i used to hate it, from the bottom of my heart.
I got only 2 months ( in the uk ) so I just hit the library and decided to sit in my pit read and try and take my mind off the fact my little girl had just been born and I’m missing her like crazy. I would of hated to be forced to work at least I had a choice
Great to hear. I’m so glad you took the opportunity you had to better yourself, off of your own back. We can all go off the rails but then get a shake to fix ourselves. Rehabilitation of prisoners just seems so obvious. That said, I’m troubled by certain crimes involving children and life ending crimes. I wish you well. 👍
It's nice to hear that the education programmes make a difference to some people.
I worked in a prison for a couple of years, teaching basic English, maths and IT.
the USA has more prisoners than other western countries because it's an industry. It benefits the US economy to have millions of cheap workers in prison making stuff for slave wages rather than paying free people proper wages for the same work. Prison is literally an industry in the US, the more incarcerated people there are the more cheap labour they have. It's literally slave labour by another name.
I think the economy at large would actually benefit if prisoners were released, free to work normal jobs and consume. It is just that the specific sector would lose out.
@@f_f_f_8142 No in freedom they do not work as they should! go to the mexican quarter or the ghetto where they only drink and shoot and no one works!
Even with murder, each case is different, rehabilitation is more than possible in a lot of cases.
I totally agree with you 👍
I agree. Was thinking of the same everytime he was talking about murderer. I agree with those who plan it, and do it on purpose. But those who hit somebody with a car, or caused an accident or etc.
Prison is there to protect society with a deterrent and remove danger from the general populace. This means that top priority should be given to rehabilitation and job training. This helps them become a productive member of society and FOR THEIR FAMILIES. Conner, You need to watch the vlog on Norwegian prisons.
And Swedish.
There's no way I would live in the US, it's screwed up big time .....Health, Schooling, Work....leave....wages etc.
Yeah, and yet the yanks tell themselves that their country is the greatest and best in the world.
Really? 🤣🤣🤣
@@andypandy9013 America is the greatest country in the world when it comes to being the worst at stuff.
@@c_n_b And it only comes as a shock to Americans when they realise it. There are enough reaction videos on RUclips that prove it.
America is the greatest when it comes to making money at the expense of its people.
This is exactly what I have been saying for many years, US citizens have no idea what is happening in their own country and even less in any other country outside the US. The rest of the world has known about the "Kids for cash" scandal for many years and likewise other similar cases where judges have received money to feed private prisons with inmates. It is inevitable in a system designed for profit.
There are some things that should never be profit-driven, such as healthcare, education, police, fire and prison services. Basic human needs and rights must never be seen as a source of profit.
The way you react to his rhetoric shows you don't know your own constitution. Your 13th amendment abolishing slavery has an exception, namely prison inmates. That means you have not abolished slavery in practice and the creator of this video is absolutely right. They are slaves! They are forced to work for nothing, they are stripped of the most basic rights and they are locked up the rest of the day when they are not working. Does it sound familiar?
Your reaction to Norway and Finland's prison systems is also so typically American; "Prison should ONLY be a punishment and revenge". Only when the United States manages to get out of this incredibly narrow and old-fashioned way of thinking will you have an opportunity to reform a system that failed decades ago.
You are EXTREMELY concerned that murderers should have no rights at all. Why not? In prison, they are not concerned with what you have done to get there, but what they can do to prevent you from doing it again. Because one day they will get out of there and in to society. That is the only thing that matters and to make it happen you have to treat inmates with understanding, humanity and give them all the relevant help guidance they need. In Norway, the punishment is exclusively the loss of freedom, not the loss of human rights. They are still there, no matter what you are convicted of. Being locked up for 23 hours a day is concidered torture in Norway and the rest of the developed world, except for in the USA.
Even with overwhelming evidence that the US system is failing and that our system actually has very good results, no one in the US will do anything that could threaten their income through the exploitation and regular torture of inmates. The system in the US is not designed to reform anyone because it relies on people returning to prison to be exploited for even more years so the rich who own the prisons and the companies that provide services to them can make EVEN more money off the weakest and the minorities in your society.
As long as the richest people in the US have control over the greediest politicians in the US, nothing will ever change, unless the common US citizen one day realizes how things really are and stands up to those who shamelessly exploit you. And that applies to health services and education as well.
amen to all of that. well said
Honestly Connor... This is toned down. There are much harsher views on USA prisons out there.
Including mine. UK prisons aren't great, neither is anything else we do in this sector. But at least we're not as bad as you lot.
Greetings from Finland. Our prison system for lifers are complicated. First they go to maximum security prison for psychiatric assessment, spends there few years of their sentence. If they are showing remorse and chainge in their mindset and behavior then and only then they can apply for open-prisons. That apply can take years or not depending on the assessment they are given by psychiatric and other prison faculty. usually lifers or any violent prisoners spend most of their sentence in maximum security prisons and are given possibility to go open-prisons near end of their sentence. Open-prisons are kinda prisons show in the video. And yes I agree every one should get second change no matter for the crime, difference is there if prisoner is mentally unstable then they shouldn't let out and thats how it is in Finland, if they got mental problems and that's why they committed crime then they are sent in to sanity ward type of prison where they will spend as much time as needed to get their head fixed and if is not bossible they can spend rest of their life in these prisons. Hope this answers some of your questions and great video once again.
Well said fellow Finn, i would also add that in order to get into open prison you have to be accepted in it by Prison sanctions agency. Its not just given without any evaluation.
Other thing i would want to add is that our sentences are not capped. Life sentence is exactly that if you dont show any kind of improvement or you are threat to society. If you do show change etc, you can get to parole after 12 years.
There are few criminals who will most likely not walk free again. Serial strangler Penttilä, Murderer Räty (longest time spend in the prison in Finland, is very dangerous to people around.) And Turku terrorist. These will most likely stay in prison.
Hating a murderer doesnt make him better
America is pretty screwed up. I'm glad I don't live there to be honest.
I don't share this like "eye for an eye" mentality. Not because I think it's backwards, but because in my believe it does not serve "justice", because nothing can bring back a loved one nor a friend. Not even the hardest of penalties will suffice to make up for the loss of a human life, the worth a human brings to this world with his mere existence. This is why I am personally against locking every murderer behind bars until the end of time. It would pretty much be just another human ripped out of society and in that sence another "dead person". That way, because justice for a murder in my believe is impossible, there is really no need to keep murderes in shackles forever and instead prisons should focus on rehabilitation. Teaching the murderer how he will never be able to atone for his deeds and giving him time to learn new or improve on personal skills, so when he gets out he can be a productive and functioning member of society either for the first time or again. It's the most one like him can do to make up for his mistake; By devoting himself to make society better with his labour or engagement. It's not just the best for the prisoner, but it's the best for society at large. Just a net positive. Most murderes won't do murders ever again anyways. Though this does not mean there aren't people who are simply not fit to be part of our society and as such, a life sentence is sadly the only fitting way to deal with them, bacause otherwise they would just be a danger to society. And even those should be able to have at least a bit of comfort while living out their sentence, because I think every human, no matter the deeds, deserves at least a bit of dignity. For me it's just a basic human right.
Also locking people behind bars forever is a very costly affair for taxpayers. (but this for me is a very minute point, because I would still make this point even of it where to be cheaper to just imprison someone.)
I hope I was able to make my point in a way that got across my thoughts understandably and got another perspective on that topic out in the world, as english is not my native language.
And I wish y'all a great day!
About the murder thing: I don't think you look at the whole picture. Most murders don't happen out of bloodlust or are done by notorious serial killers just seeking for the next victim. That's a picture you've fallen into made by your people (TV, Movies, Documentaries). Most murders happen in an emotional state, in a situation where someone didn't know what else to do, where their mind wasn't working anymore. And, what many don't want to admit, it can happen to EVERYONE. Every person on this earth is potentially dangerous if the circumstances are right, if the desperation is great enough. It could happen to you too, McJibbin, in life. Doesn't have to, but definitely can. And I think at the latest then you will think differently. Especially since 99.99% of all murderers deeply regret their crime and usually experience a lot of their own suffering with the guilt they have to bear all their lives.
To say that murderers should be locked up for life and never see daylight again is a thirst for revenge and has nothing to do with justice, humanity and intelligence. And the numbers alone speak for themselves. Seeing the prisons in Finland together with the statistics, and then saying that's wrong just because your thirst for revenge isn't quenched doesn't reflect well on your own understanding of justice, and even worse on your understanding of humanity.
The guy at Halden prison with the glasses who was giving this tour to the kitchen and the rooms is also a Murderer btw. 😅
On the Murderer, the prison system said I think they have a maximum sentence of 21 years. So after that 21 years is up, who would you rather live next door, someone who has been locked in a cell for 21 years with next to no daylight, no counselling/therapy, very little education or training?... or, a person who has had therapy to deal with the issues that led up to them killing someone, a degree from university or training in a field they can come out and be a productive member of society? I know which I'd pick. Also, if a person is in prison for murder, lets say they're around 18-20 and involved in gangs and that killing was for the gang, wouldn't it be better to remove that person from society (and the gang), get them an education, deal with the issues that led to them joining the gang and make them a better person so when released, they aren't likely to go back to gang life. Instead, getting a job, paying their way, being part of the community and most importantly, not killing anyone else! The States make that scenario hard to imagine as the gangs are part of the prison. It isn't like that everywhere.
And death penalty is a hard thing, you have to be absolutely 100% sure that the person did it, or else YOU would commit murder, for probably even less of a reason that a real murderer did. That's just as scary.
There have been plenty of executions of people who they were convinced were guilty. Until later when they've realised that they weren't.
In Germany we already give people fines based on their salary, that's a correct idea you have there
Even a murderer can become a respected member of society. There is good probability that they can understand what they did was wrong and how wrong it was. And for this to work we HAVE TO treat them as humans. They need be reminded of humanity, what it means and how precious life is. Locking them up forever is not a solution. Locking them up for long periods of time without treating them like humans is even worse.
Oh, and here speeding tickets and other fines are based on your income...
Yeah I agree with what you’re saying I mean you never know the situation someone is in when a crime is committed that doesn’t mean they should be forgiven but they should be given the chance to change and contribute to society I have a family member who is in prison for murder because a grown man threatened to kill their 7 year old daughter so he met the guy to get him to apologise and stay away from his family the guy through a punch and he retaliated and the guy hit his head and died in my opinion he hasn’t done anything wrong he acted in self defence and the guy fell and hit his head
If you have a prison system where the maximum sentence is 21 years. Then you also have to think about what kind of people are you putting back into society when they eventually get out. Do you want to put back a guy who has been locked up 23 hours per day for the last 21 years, or do you want to put back someone who has gone to school, been working and getting trained to living a normal life? In scandinavia the punishment is the limitation of movement, not torturing the people while they are there. We also have "forvaring" or confinement/detention. You can get sentenced to 21 years of confinement and if so, after the minimum period, you can apply for release every 5 years, but if the psychiatrists and ultimately the judge doesn't think that you are ready for a release, you can actually end up beeing confined indefinitly.
Look up Utøya attacks, and you will find that this guy who murdered 77 mostly teenagers got 21 years confinement. He will probaly never be released, and if he does, someone will probably put a bullet in his head.
It's slavery any way you look at it. Forced labour for little to no money, and you incentivise the prison system by the corporations to continue the practise. The prisoners are there to be punished or reformed? where does the forced labour for profit come into it?
In some countries speeding tickets are based upon income... and you are right it makes much more sense, as the fine system is simply a license to break the law fee.
I guess it depends on the circumstances of the murder. If you kill someone unintentionally your life shouldn't be over too.
Unintentionally isn't murder. That's manslaughter.
@@Steve-gc5nt true, thanks
People can kill others intentionally and not deserve to be locked away for life. Children subjected to the worst kind of depraved sexual assault by adults have, when older and not in danger, killed their abuser. In law, cold-blooded murder deserving punishment but to be locked away for ever??? Or worse, executed? Someone who killed and would only kill thir abuser. Not to be allowed out even when they're age 80, say?
Hi McJibbin, there are very good Documentaries here on youtube about prisons systems (for example Germany, Sweden, Denmark, Finland and so on) that focus on rehabilataition. It is a total other mindset how to handle crime. I whould like to see you react to that and listen to your opinion.
I feel like americans must have it drilled into them that the prison system is about vengence and punishments as opposed to rehabilitation
Your fixation with murderers is what I find most annoying about this video of yours, Connor. You need to ask yourself just one question when it comes to your own fixation - how many people that are currently incarcerated in the U.S.A. are murderers? The truth is that the vast majority of your prisoners aren't murderers and a lot of them shouldn't even be incarcerated for years never mind decades, should they?
To me everything about the U.S.A. is a complete mess and your entire country is based on financial profit for a very small number of your own population. That's why your country's a failure when it comes to not just this subject but to all of the other things that the rest of the world takes for granted including of course all aspects of healthcare and social welfare. Your typical American response to any of these problems is to ignore them and for you to get defensive and angry especially when the gent in this video that you watched mentioned slavery. If someone is being paid 12 cents an hour for working then that is slavery and no amount of your anger can change that fact, can it?
Just to add to what you said...it is FORCED labour. The prisoners have no choice in the matter. That is slavery! No matter what pittance they are paid, they are still being used as slaves. Capitalism in USA is disgusting and this is a prime example.
Actually it is slavery, and it is constitutionally legal, as they are convicts... that doesn't make it ethical.
As for nice place, all studies show the harsher the prison the less effective it is for rehabilitation.
So while I understand your reaction to the Scandinavian less harsh systems... if an inmate goes out and works, and pays taxes and so on, it actually means it costs the tax payer less.
America seems to be at the top of all the wrong lists.
All Empires fail eventually.
Hi
I'm from Germany. I was a amateur judge for five years. That's why I have a very different opion. A very german and constitutional one.
German basic law, Article One: " The dignity of the human being is not to be touched. To protect and defend the dignity of human life is the first and foremost task of every instance of government."
Direct consequence of our Nazi past. And it's a right for every man. Even murderers.
You may hate a killer. It's still a human being and deserves his or her dignity protected. I convicted disgusting people. But I knew, that they had a chance to better themselves, improve their behavior in prison, do something useful.
Only deal in facts - never use opinion. I believe the narrator has extremely researched information. It is no use saying it is "exaggerated", get the facts.
He's only saying it's opinion because he's American he can't handle the fact that other countries are better and don't practice modern day slavery
I think a different way of looking at it may be beneficial here. Think of it in terms of how much keeping somebody in prison costs the state (in the UK, I think about $50,000 per prisoner per year). You can either keep them locked up in bad conditions, then release them to be completely useless to society (and quite likely to re-offend). Or, you can treat them better and help them to improve themselves, so that by the time their sentence is over they are of some use to society as a whole (and will unlikely re-offend). For a 20 year sentence, which of the two options would you prefer to spend $1 million on?
There's nothing disingenuous about a statistic that shows blacks get a 20% longer sentence than whites do for the same crime.
It's, no pun intended here, black and white.
One thing is psychos, and another is people killed due to being in war bands or, in some cases, like a robbery that went wrong or drunken driving.
Those people can rehabilitate and become a stable part of society, making the world a better place.
I studied law in college here in Spain and knew people who, due to drugs, had killed another drug dealer. He has turned his life around by helping others.
Connar, you are outraged that the guy in Finland is in a ‘rehabilitation prison’ living what appears to be a comfortable life. They question you are not asking is: ‘What kind of murder did he commit?’.
A) Was it a kidnap someone off the street, brutalise and rape, chop up their body and burry them in the woods murder?
Or
B) Have a fight with a guy in a bar, punch him in the head, he falls down and cracks his skull murder?
Or
C) [This one actually happened] Guy discovers him life-long best friend, and been raping his 4 year old daughter, took him into the woods, made him dig his own grave, killed him, and buried him. They were out drinking, they went back to his flat. His best friend passed out drunk. So curious he went through his best friends phone, and found video and photos his best friend had made of himself raping and sexually abusing his child.
What you are NOT taking into account are the particular circumstances, in which this guy ended up killing someone.
It’s unlikely that two out of these three murderers are going to murder again. Obviously, murderer ‘A’ is a psychopath, probably a serial killer, so would not be suitable for any ‘rehabilitation prison’. But murderer ‘B’ and ‘C’ would be suitable ‘rehabilitation prison’.
Judges, take mitigating circumstances into account. Not all murderers are bad people, or a ‘danger to society’. Just because one human being, kills another human being. It does not mean you should automatically “lock them up and throw away the key”.
You need to find out why, they did what they did.
New drinking game. Take a shot every time Connor says "murdered/murder".
I saw a documentary about this a few years ago. It said there are gun shops in poor areas to encourage crime as prisoners make a lot of the goods your country sells. It's basically legalised slavery.
Norway and the US are at different ends of the punishment spectrum, most countries are somewhere in the middle.
I would suggest that the crime of child abuse is actually considerably worse than basic murder. I can think of a plethora of reasons why one human being might be driven to the extreme of killing another. Obviously I am not talking about premeditated murder or serial killing. However, anyone who is capable of harming the most innocent of creatures, a child, is undeniably mentally deranged and in my personal belief beyond rehabilitation. I would be curious to know how Norway deals with such criminals.
Your opinion towards treating murderers reflects what is said in the video: "The goal of our system (US) is punishment." I think there are several more reasons for prisons: securing the society, deterrence, but also rehabilitation. If someone leaves a prison, it's better for the whole society if he has rehabilited and is able to be a member of society. If the main reason he was in prison was to punish him, he probably fails in being a member of society. I'd rather have a neighbor or co-worker who has an as normal time in prison as possible (including play station, DVDs, book, classes) than someone being only punished for years or decades. And I also think that excluding someone from his community and his loved ones for the time in prison is punishment enough. Even murderers should be given a second chance after an appropriate time if they (if showing remorse and mental stability).
i get what u mean about the rhetoric but imo u should watch knowingbetter's neoslavery video and it makes more sense
With the speeding ticket you mentioned. Here in the UK if you are caught speeding you get a £100 fine a 3 "points" on your license. These points stay for four years, if you get speeding 3 more times and get the maximum 12 points you are banned from driving for 2 years and then have to re sit your driving tests again to get it back. We also offer the speeder a "speed awareness course" instead of the points. This is to explain why its bad and very dangerous to speed, sbowing how long it takes to stop and certain speeds etc. Its very good at making the dangers real and gives you something to think about next time you want to speed
You were sentenced to prison, not sentenced to slavery!
Treating people badly makes it more likely to reofend. The idea is to lessen the reasons people end up in nside in the first place.
@McJibbin With regards to the guy at 28:11 (or any other particular such prisoner): I would rather know there are fewer victims and of lesser crimes than being satisfied that he is properly punished, even for such a horrible crime.
You also have very strong opinions on how certain crimes be punished. You're not looking at the numbers at all. You cannot argue that Finland and Norway have very low numbers of inmates who return to crime afterwards. If you are treated as a human being and helped to improve yourself, then you become a functional member of society. If you're treated by guards like an animal, and kicked out of prison with nothing and no prospects, then you're much more likely to go back to crime pretty much immediately. It's not rocket science 🤔
In Finland speeding tickets is based on income so if you are rich you must pay much more 😅
I don't know if the word "slavery" was used deliberately by the video creator. But it should have. Slavery was abandoned but inmates were purposely excluded.
Askesis Music is right. Being incarcerated is the punishment. While there, being forced to work for virtually no pay doing things which, in the outside world, is a commercial undertaking is virtually slavery. And on 'If you murdered someone, I don't care what happens to you.' Say a woman 25 years' old is sexually assaulted and beaten senseless every day by her drunken, brute of a husband and not seeing a way out and being terrified, she lays plans that results in her coldly stabbing him to death. Murder? Yes. Deserving prison? Yes. Lock her up and throw away the key for the next 60 years... really? A situationally specific crime by someone who was brought to it through desperation and will never harm anyone else. Not deserving nobody caring what happens to them. I suggest it's that approach that results in the USA imprisoning so many people.
To your idea about earning based fines, somewhere overseas does that i think maybe Denmark or somewhere around there. I remember this because quite a few years back there was news going around that a guy had to pay $1mil for a speeding fine because it was means assessed for the exact reason you made, if a fine is meant to hurt a bit and disuade you from re-offending, then it needs to be increased based on earnings for it to be effective to wealthier people.
Slavery is totally adéquat here: free work with no option to avoid the work, for no pay and in bad conditions not treating the person as a human being… this is slavery. It existed throughout time, slavery does not have a requirement of racism or anything like that (even though it would still mostly fit if it did here)
Regarding the murder guy in Finland, they never specified what degre murder was comited. Was it self defence? Was it planned first degre? Was it accidental manslauther? But they did say he was in there for life, near 0% chance of getting to commit a violent crime again. Though the freedom to go to the colege does worry me, not that I'm opposed to him getting an education but what about the degre of security when he is out expecialy for other people?
When you say you dont care about murderers thats hard to hear ... I am against the death penalty so you have either to lock them up forever or try to help them so you can let them out again some day. [5:07]
I agree with a lot of what you say Connor (apologies if I've spelled it wrong), and you see some of the shades of grey, but I think you're missing the shades of grey where murder is concerned. Let me be clear: I think intentionally killing another human being (apart from self-defense) is a horrible crime. BUT does that mean the person who committed the murder is now irrevocably evil and incapable of doing anything good for the rest of their life (if given the opportunity)? I think the question at least needs to be asked.
If you haven't read or watched any videos about the subject of restorative justice, I would encourage you to do so. I would also encourage you to seek out a video (on YT) called "Jo Berry and Patrick Magee - Building Bridge for Peace". It is reaction-worthy.
Excellent reaction vid (as always) and very thought-provoking.
Given the right circumstances, everyone is capable of killing someone, going ahead and acting on it comes often from bad environment, poverty and desperation, or exclusion from society, lack of other options, or lack of social skills, I do agree that there are cases where there is very little that can be done, but in many cases you can help and should help
Poverty. High levels are at the route of this issue. The lack of any form of safety net is part of that and create the conditions for high crime levels.
So Connor what would you call forced labour for no remuneration??
I wonder how many on here would keep their liberal pretensions if a loved one of theirs was murdered, and demand that the killer, who likely didn't mean to do it, gets the finest rehabilitation possible...
Rehabilitation is the focus of some other countries' prison systems. But that doesn't mean they're not equipped to handle "unfixable monsters." It just means that they don't assume every criminal is a monster and just wash their hands off every convict. There's a difference in focus: punishment for crimes already committed or preventing more crimes. The result speaks for itself - low recidivism. If the American mindset of "oh, you're unfixable and should just be punished" is so effective, then why are there more people returning to a life of crime? Whereas countries that focus on rehabilitation are actually able to point people to a more lawful path. So it all boils down to your priorities: would you rather punish criminals harshly because you don't want any chances to be given to monsters, or would you rather see less and less people around you committing crimes?
Connor "an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind".
Your black and white thinking on this topic is.... Worrying. Understandable knowing some of your other opinions and indoctrination but still worrying.
First, you need to take of all kind of firesarms, from the Street. US are the only country whos are allowing to have this thing in your homes. But we also have the same problem with young people walking around with firesarms. A new situation here in Sweden. Criminalls, gangs, black money, Guns, drugs. Sad, that young teenagers gets into this ganggames. Just now here in Sweden this year we have so many shutings ever. Horribel. We need to find out the reson for why it is accelerating. One problem is recuitment of young boys, class belongings. The black people have not a fair chans many time. Getting out from the getto is not easy, poverty and bad schools. Hi from sweden
Slavery is a big deal from the bigining. There is not right. The folks need to come up to the same level as you white people. The racism is hughs, as it is all over the world. And the prison is like a big factory in US. And make a lot of money. Good business.
Hello, Connor. My husband's friend murdered a woman at the age of 17. He spent 13 years in a Polish prison, so he got out at the age of 30. Now he is 45, has a wife, two kids and a house. Do you really think he should still be punished and we should be paying for this until the end of his life? Humanity! Of course there have to be specialists involved to determine if the person is still dangerous.
For the speeding ticket, this is very true, this is what Switzerland does
I think we (and I apply this to my own country and most of Europe, not just the US) have to get out of that mindset of prison as punishment. The Early Modern period had some of the bloodiest and most degrading punishments known to man, from breaking people on the wheel to hanging, drawing and quartering to galley slavery. And yet society was riddled with crime and insecurity. Banditry was rampant, especially in times of war.
I'm going to sound very pompous, but allow me to quote Victor Hugo in his plea against the death penalty: "Revenge is from the individual, punishment is from God. Society is between the two. Punishment is above it, revenge below it. Nothing so great and nothing so small suits it."
The goal of society should be to isolate people when they are harmful to others, but not torture them. Rehabilitation is not about empathy. It's about creating a system in which coexistence is possible. That even people who've done terrible things can fix themselves if society gives them the opportunity.
Now, obviously someone could tell me that it's easy for me to say, and that may be true. I've never lost someone I knew directly due to violent crime. I'm not pretending to be some enlightened truthsayer, just stating my opinion based on what I've studied and learned.
I watched a documentary on tv about your prison system it was shocking institutionalised slavery. I read somewhere that there are more gun shops around poor and/or black areas than anywhere, almost like they are trying to encourage crime in poor areas.
Your willingness to torture a murderer is concerning. You need rehabilitation as well.
As I understand it there are a high number of people in prison in the USA because of the 3 strikes and out rule. Irrespective of how serious the final offence is!
It is nice to see you open to new thoughts
The kids in the U.K. don’t get treated like that.
Only an american could think that making money out of forced labour was anything *but* slavery. It does *not* matter who you do it to. It's the same the Nazis did to the people they conquered.
The US political system where blatant bribery is encouraged needs to addressed by non corrupt politicians (are there any?)
Only in America 🤣
I think you conveyed your view on murder, but there is always possibility of errors, coercion, accidents, etc.
It is essentially indentured slavery to put prisoners to work. They are imprisoned as punishment, but being forced to work for little to no reimbursement then it's slavery.
In regarding the speeding ticket, that is exactly how it is in Finland. Ticket is based on your income/salary so it hurts everyone equally same amount. Bonus fact: most expensive speeding ticket to day here was 170k for driving 80km/h in the 40km/h zone.
Murder is not a one tone crime. So many variables. Not all murderers are truly evil or serial killers. Rehabilitation should be the number one effort for non lifers. Because if you make it hard to maintain relationships, don’t educate people and help them with skill sets, when they are released they are less likely to find honest work and somewhere to stay-meaning they are more likely to reoffend.
Meanwhile in Finland 80km/h on 40km/h street 180 000 € ticket.
Prison and separation from society is the punishment. It's not the prisons job to further punish through cheap labour. Reoffending is less likely if education is the prisons focus. See Finlands system for one
On murderers, I say it depends quite heavily on circumstance. Manslaughter of course is one where I don’t think justifies decades of abuse. After all, sometimes manslaughter could be forgetting to engage the brakes of your car on a hill and it rolls down into a cafe. Humans aren’t perfect after all, people will always have lapses of judgement and there are those unlucky enough it happens to be one which kills someone.
Ahh, at 18:30...there it was!! :D By the way, Norwegian prisons is NOT generally as Halden and Bastøy, those two are always used as examples. We have a LOT of prisons that are less luxurious! Just saying, been to al lot of them. :)
@mcjibbin there are worse crimes than murder, and all its conditions, and if a murderer is rehabilitated and maybe even saves another life, just by being in a certain place other than jail, I think he ends up paying his debt to society in full. and if you want to know a way for the US to reduce the incarcerated population and crime, look for videos of how Portugal is winning the war on drugs, decriminalizing them....
The way you reacted is literally why USA is struggling to sort it out... People who commit crime largely do it becuase they are desperate, they continue because society rejects them. America will struggle until the average person such as yourself understands what Finland is doing. The majority of offenders are repeat offenders stuck in a cycle, the ONLY way to break the cycle is to fully integrate them into society... ie a job, qualifications if they are needed etc... If this does not happen, the cycle does not break. Scandanavians are a few steap ahead of everyone else in so many ways. BTW the man seen obviosuly isnt a danger to society, they assess every case individually, it is a science and not everyone gets the same.
You can't judge all murder cases the same, murder out of self defence, murder out of revenge (e.g. killing someone that molested your child) or in war a soldier kills/murders perhaps many opponents, does that make the soldier a mass murderer? No of course not. Life imo isn't sacred, if you do think it is then never eat meat or fish ever again. And then it even is debatable if a plant's life isn't worth as much as a cow's or human's. Murder/killing and thus death is part of life.
I agree that a cold blooded murderer should get life sentences. But one that did such an act while blinded by rage etc. Should be given a second chance. Trying to completely break him mentally rather than try to get him back into society as a productive citizen is simply wrong
Hangings stopped because they didn't work. Prisons were a fear factor, 'don't do this or you'll go to prison.' It would be better for people not to murder each other purely on 'I don't want to go to prison' but on the understanding of why murdering isn't the fashion. The sole reason prisons exist is to keep the people who are a danger to themselves and society out of society. Norwegian prisoners are safer from themselves and out of society. In fact, Norwegian prisons _are_ a _safe_ environment. Going by this, they are fully functioning and running optimally and serve their purpose fully, unlike yours. Most people who spend so long in prehistoric prisons have no idea how to function in society so they deliberately get themselves back into the prison system, it's a big issue. And nobody should be punished for not knowing the difference between right and wrong, but if they _can_ learn the difference then all the better for everyone! It's about time we progressed if you ask me. I agree with the commentator, U.S. prisons repackaged slavery and slave labour then sugar coated it. Your prisons produce military stuff and also the likes of licence places. Not on!
Look at it this way, Norway's prisons are like a parent reasoning with their child on why they hit their younger brother, american prisons are instantaneously physically abusing the child on queue.
The slight problem is that you're thinking in hyperboles, e.g 'murderers should not get good treatment' while not considering that 90% (not a real statistic, just using it as an example) people in prison are there for non-violent crimes.
I think rehabilitation is something to strive for, for many reasons. American prisons has a terrible tendency to turning people who commited less serious crimes into people commiting very serious crimes. It's terrible. I don't think this one is to be found on RUclips but if you have access to Netflix you should check out the episode about Norway in the serie "inside the worlds toughest prisons" (I think it's called). There you get an interesting presentation of a prison focusing on rehabilitation, and the theories behind it. There are different videos here too, many about the prison Halden in Norway that are good too though. But that episode is very interesting, so check it out if you're interested. 🙂
(Edit, wrote this comment half through the video when you asked for comments. I now see they being up Halden. Still recommending the episode mentioned above to get a more in depth understanding of the theories behind the system)
I think you were missing some big points. First a murderer can be anything, not just the ones shown in documentaries. Of course with those, i agree with your point. But if you run someone with a car, or cause an accident, that can treated as murder and get a long time in prison.
And also you keep forgeting that small offenders end up in the same place. If you 'just' wanted to cheat the system and get money in anyway, you end up in prison too. Some even for a longer time. They are not dangerous to society. Locking them up for years is a good lesson already to not try to do the same again.
The fines by salary are being used in Scandinavian countries. More income, higher fine when you break the law. The part of the prison systems in the US and Norway. Those are two extremes on both sides. The US needs to find a middle ground in this. Take over the best parts of the Norwegian system and the best parts of the US system and combine those to update (modernize) the US prison system.
@17:30 Finland has speeding tickets based on income.
This system makes it equal for both rich or poor. The demerit points system is a national program that encourages safe and responsible driving. Demerit points are penalty points that you receive if you commit certain traffic offences. As a driver you start with zero demerit points. If you commit an offence that has a demerit point penalty, they are then added to your driving record. If you reach or exceed the maximum demerit points allowable for your licence within a 3-year period, your licence will be suspended, or not renewed. If you accumulate 12 or more penalty points on your driving licence within three years, you could be disqualified from driving for a minimum of 6 months. And you still get fined as well and if you don't pay the fine your licence is cancelled. Peace out
Really like your video. You're engaging with material with an open mind, and that's a great thing. I also understand your objections, especially because you are American. American culture takes a "punishment first, rehabilitation second"-kind of approach, so I imagine for you who grew up in American culture seeing the Scandinavian approach for the first time must be shocking. Yet you approach the topic very fairly, and are open to debate, so you have my compliments. :)
There's no need to "tone down the rethoric", as it is true...
I've seen so many reaction videos on SecondThought videos and other similar ones. And yours are by far the most apologetic, not by deliberate decision, but from lack of knowledge and a natural defense response of disbelief when faced with harsh truths. Poor soul... very sad. You'll get there, everntually. At least you submit yourself to a different view and might learn and change in the process. Keep it up and good luck.
PS: It's been said often here. Law and prosecution aren't about revenge. Which you (as you are socialized and "educated", in US terms, that way) advocate for... One day you could react on your older reaction videos and reflect on your view - provided it changes over time, hopefully.
Prisons being there for "the slap" (punishment) are way outdated. A good rehabilitation helps everyone, even the victims or relatives, as it usually tries to involve both sides in the process to heal both!
PPS: "I'm not defending at all", the first sentence and sign of defense! LOL...
If you think murder is completely irredeemable in every case, I recommend checking out the cases of prisons in Finland and Norway, that have "open" prisons and rehabilitation focused prisons.
I would also like to point out an amazing vice documentary where a women who had her family slaughtered by a mercenary, who now lives next door to her and helps her in her daily life.
Society should always be on the higher ground and never torture or unreasonable punish people for any crime ... the organisation become as bad as any criminal
Definition of slavery: a condition of having to work very hard without proper remuneration or appreciation.
If you force people to work for no/very little money and they have no choice in the matter. How is it an exaggeration?
I just think that everyone should get what they have done as a punishment. You kill, you get killed. You rape, you get raped etc. When you make something that is illegal and the consequences are financial only you are getting loan on your name for double the amount but the victim gets the money. If you make a crime against society you are doing community work for x hours, no wage of course.
Surely preventing reoffending is what it’s all about. And if that’s getting better conditions well, why not do it. Just check out which countries which have the least recidivism .
React to the trailer of a documentary called "13th" please. It is about the 13th ammendment to the US constitution which prohibits slavery except for convicts. So slavery is absolutely still a thing in the USA. It is literally in your constitution. So as I say, watch the trailer. Even better, watch the documentary.
And NO, the maximum sentence is 21 years. But we have a kind of inprisonment that is called "forvaring"...that can be extended for life! Here in Norway. And now I will shut up! :D
There are 109 Unicor prison factories, supplying an array of goods to the DOD, DOJ, USPS, and others. Private companies use US prisoners, paid as little as $0.23 per hour, manufacture, protective military gear, law enforcement equipment, McDonald's uniforms, furniture, Microsoft software packaging, Honda car parts, Victoria's Secret lingerie, dentures, JC Penny's blue jeans, as well as all of the items prisons require from uniforms, brooms, mattresses, and even toilets. Call Centres staffed by prison inmates are used by various state governments, as well as a growing number of companies such as Microsoft and Hitachi. Starbucks uses prisons in Washington state to make some of its holiday merchandise, specifically assembling the brightly coloured Christmas-themed bags of chocolate-covered coffee beans. In Florida, the organization that operates the state's 41 inmate work programs boasts that its food processing division processes tons of beef, chicken, and pork for a number of unnamed retail and "institutional" accounts.
No matter how it is described, as long as prisoners are paid far below even minimum wage to produce products and services for government and private industry, it is slave labour.
If anyone in the US wonders why the country cannot afford universal health care, it is partly because the government spends more than $80 billion each year to keep roughly 2.3 million people behind bars. That converts to, on average, $34,782.61 per inmate. In case anyone is wondering, the per case cost of up to and including execution in the US is $1.26 million. That is a lot of money just to prove that society's thirst for vengeance is just as vicious as the killer.