I think the game has hit the level of i get new units to see how they are and use for some period of time and repeat, no idea when they will provide something great like new end game content (yes i'm fully aware about the one that's going to be introduced on this patch) i talk about more different game modes to spare time into the game. Something like the previous event we had to beat some boss would be nice as permanent content.
There are leaks about them increasing the lvl cap to 100 which could be a precedent for new endgame. The latest leaks also mention removal of boss respawn cd which could, again, be alluding to more endgame. I honestly don't care about grindy endgames ngl, I personally want them to add Divine Ingenuity since it seems so versatile.
For me, Hoyo killed Clorinde with weird CDs. Her numbers can be on the same level as previous characters but when the rotations are not fun without switching around artifacts, I won't pull.
I think you forgot one thing: the upcoming Imaginary theater that limit character usage. So no matter how strong a character is, you can only use them 2 times there so that game mode encourage people to pull more characters.
One thing to note is that the spiral abyss doesnt have to be just timed combat. As you pointed out, you can add various debuffs to the spiral abyss like how earlier times there were sheer cold mechanics and you had to follow the fire seelies. Or the fact that in floor 11, we had a defend the leyline objective. The Spiral abyss doesn't have to be an open chamber with a timer. It could have barriers or floating platforms or a more active stage that changes. However the community kind of rejected it and wanted the spiral abyss into a no items final destination biweekly and now monthly primogem farm. There was alot of push back in the defend the leyline objective and ask the community about most annoying domains, and you get the weapon and talent domain in mondstat. Noticed how new domains dont introduce any debuffs and are just single open chamber combat rooms. The only ones that do or have immunities recently are the weekly bosses with more specific and punishing mechanics. I think the last general debuff mechanic that the game introduced against the player were the withering zones where if you don't cleanse it fast enough, your characters just die. However it was only featured in the open world. I am kind of interested in the new endgame mode because it places limits in team building so you have to adapt more. That will force change in the meta regularly because some characters will be banned and you are forced into different characters and strategies. Honestly I hope that Genshin will go away from the single open combat room and go towards more interesting stage design. And not like that 2.2 overrated childe and xinyan combat event where you just run from one chamber to the next. Stuff like floating platforms, smaller stages, various elements like fire balls and mondstat talent domain icicles, stages where you can use ziplines to climb higher platforms and if you fall off you have to somehow climb again in a time limit, occasional timing windows where enemies can get buffs like their attacks can pierce shields, reduce your stats or they can leech or heal themselves. If maplestory can have random skill based Jump sections in their game, I dont see why not genshin have more platforming and gliding in its combat section as well.
tldr for those interested: need more debuff challenges. Enemies with more buffs/mechanics = good. If you disagree with these concepts, you're too pussy to make the game good.
Wanting everything in one game? U can just see hoyo games they just split into diff games and gaining huge profit Want adventure/open world start with genshin -> burnout and need more endgame modes? Play hsr -> want more combat? Come to zzz If u put everything in one then other games would lose their purpose. U wanting to balance it in one for ur profit of enjoyment But they divided them for their profit of money They are a company at the end of the day✌️ U can see after establishing stable market for hsr, they now added little bit that endgame type into the genshin. They clearly want to promote their upcoming games and establishing market for them until that they are not gonna do anything and if they do, that results in demote their own upcoming games. They do this mainly bcz they had no competition.
This whole power creep argument is kind of dumb. GI is a game that's mostly single player and the only player to player interaction is via co-op. There are no pvp or massive change to the minimum requirement/skill level needed to clear spiral abyss. In short, you are not forced to compete with someone and choosing to compare your current unit to what others have is a conscious choice. Complaining about Hoyo releasing stronger units and making past character feel weaker is idiotic. So what if someone rolled and got a stronger unit than yourself, it's not like its going to slow down your clear time in spiral abyss given that it's your account be tested. Are you upset at people scoring higher than you on exams? Are you upset that someone has better artifacts or more constellations than you? No?! So why the hell are u upset what unit someone else has on their account.
lol who talked about other people or pvp. The problem happens when YOU have a new stronger unit which makes YOUR older unit no longer worth playing because they do the same thing but one does it in a more efficient way than another. And considering the high cost associated with every unit (time spent, F2P resources spent, possibly money spent), this creates a bad feeling in the player because they effectively wasted that cost.
@@SeravySensei I talked about pvp because when people bring up power creep, they act like this game has some kind of pvp system where if you don't get the latest unit or play the latest meta team then you are screwed. "The problem happens when YOU have a new stronger unit which makes YOUR older unit no longer worth playing because they do the same thing but one does it in a more efficient way than another." This is not an argument to hate power creep. You can clear spiral abyss with your old units. Choosing not to use said character because another unit is stronger or more efficient on your account is a choice that you are making. Your spiral abyss time also isn't affected by someone having a more proficient unit on their account, since like I've said, It's your account being tested. "And considering the high cost associated with every unit (time spent, F2P resources spent, possibly money spent), this creates a bad feeling in the player because they effectively wasted that cost." "feeling bad" is not an argument to hate power creep. We can make just the same baseless argument of feeling bad when someone rolls better artifact than you. We can also make this same argument to 4stars and 5 stars, whereby u spend time building up a 4 star unit then later obtain a 5 star that does their job better (e.g. kazuha and sucrose).
@@SeravySensei Actually, this isn't as big a problem as it might seem at first. For example, I have both Clorinde and Keqing. Keqing I got a long time ago and she accompanied many hours of my early game. But after 2-3 years, much as I love Keqing, playing her has kind of got stale. So Clorinde is like a breath of fresh air, plus she hits harder too. Can't be doing the same-old-same-old all the time, plus Keqing has already paid back in spades via the times I spent with her for the level of investment that I put into building her. Plus, I can always take her out just for old times sake.
You missed the whole point of the video and completely so. For one, Genshin's powercreep problem comes from a lack of variety in combat endgame content not the balance. This means that all the time and resources and hours of playing that goes into building a unit feels really like a waste when everyone around is "playing with the new shiny toy that has 10x more features". The game is made more "fun" by artificially bloating character kits rather than creating a richer open world experience (with replayable dungeons, adjustable bosses, stage effects, etc.) This becomes massive problem for casuals as resources (i.e. primogems) become thin the more developed your account it. It also means newer players have units that can beat the content faster and more conveniently than you (i.e. lot less time wasted in overworld). The gameplay experience of someone whose first 5 star was Keqinq (i.e. mine) vs someone having a Furina (walks on water, heals, auto attacks hilicurls on towers, higher dmg for self and team, etc) is night and day. A P v P system focuses on a leaderboard, like we have in Hi3, where the balance is a lot tighter: Abyss favours a very narrow group of viable playstyles due to stage effects, "weather" (buffs for certain teams) and abyss "disturbance" (enemy difficulty) at that rank. The balance discussion and insane powercreep we have in Hi3 is totally separate discussion to the Genshin powercreep. But a P v P discussion doesnt invalidate the existence of a P v E discussion on the same topic. If you listened to what I said in the vid: "The game does not give us enough content to meaningfully distinguish an Arlecchino from Clorinde" rather than "The dps of Arlecchino is 10X, but Clorinde's is 5X, after all buffs are accounted for." The two conversations are different.
@@KokomiClan I'm not seeing what point you are trying to make though. GI for the most part is a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. This means that all END GAME CONTENT (even if new) will depend on what is on your account and what you have available. If you create more end game content, it is still your account being tested and no one ELSES. Your ability to clear content will be on how well you've managed your account and built up your character. And thanks to MHY not wanting to scare off casuals, they tend to make the threshold for clearing rather low. And let's be real here, MHY is a multi- billion dollar company, they can easily do both (make more powerful characters + make new end game content). The reason they haven't made any end game was due to complacency, since they had no competitor for years and people were content with characters and weapons. Your second paragraph isn't really an argument to hate power creep. It's basically envy of hating the fact that newer players can get access to stronger characters that older players did not have access to when they first started out. This is pretty normal and standard for most gacha games, and MHY even has system in place that gives out better reward to starting players than those that started in 1.0. In addition, this game again is a SINGLE PLAYER game, you shouldn't be concern on what's on another person account. You also shouldn't be concern if another person can clear content faster than you since it doesn't affect you in anyway. If you are concern about that then you should also hate whales that have C6 on multiple 5 stars that you own. "This becomes massive problem for casuals as resources (i.e. primogems) become thin the more developed your account it. It also means newer players have units that can beat the content faster and more conveniently than you (i.e. lot less time wasted in overworld). The gameplay experience of someone whose first 5 star was Keqinq (i.e. mine) vs someone having a Furina (walks on water, heals, auto attacks hilicurls on towers, higher dmg for self and team, etc) is night and day. " This is completely false. Veteran players that don't waste their resources on "pull for who u like" bs and invested their in game currency wisely will have several built up teams that can clear content comfortably. Meanwhile, new and younger players may have access to powerful units, but they often will have much smaller roster of characters and deficits in their team (e.g. lack of shielders/healers, crowd controller, good dps etc). In addition, newer players would have missed out on past events, and their rewards (exclusive weapon+ primo gems) due to starting later. So if a younger player can reach to 36 stars at a faster rate then I think it balances out given that they would have missed out on many past events. "A P v P system focuses on a leaderboard, like we have in Hi3, where the balance is a lot tighter: Abyss favours a very narrow group of viable playstyles due to stage effects, "weather" (buffs for certain teams) and abyss "disturbance" (enemy difficulty) at that rank. The balance discussion and insane powercreep we have in Hi3 is totally separate discussion to the Genshin powercreep. " A PvP would be a terrible idea, since everyone will run freeze teams and all the top players on the leader board will be whales. This will essentially just give extra rewards to people that already don't need it. F2P/low spenders that need it the most will likely get few rewards. ""The game does not give us enough content to meaningfully distinguish an Arlecchino from Clorinde" rather than "The dps of Arlecchino is 10X, but Clorinde's is 5X, after all buffs are accounted for." The two conversations are different." This is due to stagnation of the spiral abyss and MHY not wanting to hurt casuals by making it too hard. They can very easily increase the difficulty of the mobs if they wanted too. More diverse content is welcomed, but it does not mean that it can't go without powercreep. For example, HSR has done a good job in making more powerful units, while also making diverse end game content. A very simple solution to the above would be to make a floor 13. But MHY does not want to do this because they are stingy, which is why they split some of the Spiral abyss' reward into the new end game.
Pointless topic. I don't care if its a Hot take but, using the "there is no content to justify playing " is honestly just a dogwater statement that it just makes me think people are just coping whether or not they should get this unit. Genshin is and always will be, A CASUAL GAME. I don't care if people cry about "what's the point of building them then" coz the point is you pull for the characters you like and you will clear content with them if you really wanted them to do so. A dehya can clear floor 12 and she is arguably the worst unit in the game and so will Xinyan but I don't see anyone complaining about that.
Why the hostility? Have you ever thought that maybe people spend a lot of time in the game and want to use their units in a way that makes it feel like their character was worth the grind? Having an unbalanced roster is not fun. Saying Genshin is a casual game is your interpretation. If you make any content or speedrun, like I do here, the game is anything but casual. Lastly, this is not about clearing the abyss but about how the format of that (limited) content drives player decisions. We want a game with longevity, hence advocating for format changes.
The issue that many face with the idea of encouraging to pull for more characters is that the game is super expensive. Is you want a character you need more than 100 dolars for a 50-50 chance. That is why many skip banners so they can save primogems for the characters they want.
I think the game has hit the level of i get new units to see how they are and use for some period of time and repeat, no idea when they will provide something great like new end game content (yes i'm fully aware about the one that's going to be introduced on this patch) i talk about more different game modes to spare time into the game.
Something like the previous event we had to beat some boss would be nice as permanent content.
There are leaks about them increasing the lvl cap to 100 which could be a precedent for new endgame. The latest leaks also mention removal of boss respawn cd which could, again, be alluding to more endgame.
I honestly don't care about grindy endgames ngl, I personally want them to add Divine Ingenuity since it seems so versatile.
For me, Hoyo killed Clorinde with weird CDs. Her numbers can be on the same level as previous characters but when the rotations are not fun without switching around artifacts, I won't pull.
the electro set literally reduces Skill cooldown and she is Electro
I think you forgot one thing: the upcoming Imaginary theater that limit character usage. So no matter how strong a character is, you can only use them 2 times there so that game mode encourage people to pull more characters.
One thing to note is that the spiral abyss doesnt have to be just timed combat. As you pointed out, you can add various debuffs to the spiral abyss like how earlier times there were sheer cold mechanics and you had to follow the fire seelies. Or the fact that in floor 11, we had a defend the leyline objective. The Spiral abyss doesn't have to be an open chamber with a timer. It could have barriers or floating platforms or a more active stage that changes. However the community kind of rejected it and wanted the spiral abyss into a no items final destination biweekly and now monthly primogem farm. There was alot of push back in the defend the leyline objective and ask the community about most annoying domains, and you get the weapon and talent domain in mondstat. Noticed how new domains dont introduce any debuffs and are just single open chamber combat rooms. The only ones that do or have immunities recently are the weekly bosses with more specific and punishing mechanics. I think the last general debuff mechanic that the game introduced against the player were the withering zones where if you don't cleanse it fast enough, your characters just die. However it was only featured in the open world.
I am kind of interested in the new endgame mode because it places limits in team building so you have to adapt more. That will force change in the meta regularly because some characters will be banned and you are forced into different characters and strategies.
Honestly I hope that Genshin will go away from the single open combat room and go towards more interesting stage design. And not like that 2.2 overrated childe and xinyan combat event where you just run from one chamber to the next. Stuff like floating platforms, smaller stages, various elements like fire balls and mondstat talent domain icicles, stages where you can use ziplines to climb higher platforms and if you fall off you have to somehow climb again in a time limit, occasional timing windows where enemies can get buffs like their attacks can pierce shields, reduce your stats or they can leech or heal themselves. If maplestory can have random skill based Jump sections in their game, I dont see why not genshin have more platforming and gliding in its combat section as well.
tldr for those interested: need more debuff challenges. Enemies with more buffs/mechanics = good. If you disagree with these concepts, you're too pussy to make the game good.
Just one thing if evevy character is navueilitte level the game would be fun anymore
Wanting everything in one game?
U can just see hoyo games they just split into diff games and gaining huge profit
Want adventure/open world start with genshin -> burnout and need more endgame modes? Play hsr -> want more combat? Come to zzz
If u put everything in one then other games would lose their purpose.
U wanting to balance it in one for ur profit of enjoyment
But they divided them for their profit of money
They are a company at the end of the day✌️
U can see after establishing stable market for hsr, they now added little bit that endgame type into the genshin. They clearly want to promote their upcoming games and establishing market for them until that they are not gonna do anything and if they do, that results in demote their own upcoming games.
They do this mainly bcz they had no competition.
This whole power creep argument is kind of dumb. GI is a game that's mostly single player and the only player to player interaction is via co-op. There are no pvp or massive change to the minimum requirement/skill level needed to clear spiral abyss. In short, you are not forced to compete with someone and choosing to compare your current unit to what others have is a conscious choice.
Complaining about Hoyo releasing stronger units and making past character feel weaker is idiotic. So what if someone rolled and got a stronger unit than yourself, it's not like its going to slow down your clear time in spiral abyss given that it's your account be tested. Are you upset at people scoring higher than you on exams? Are you upset that someone has better artifacts or more constellations than you? No?! So why the hell are u upset what unit someone else has on their account.
lol who talked about other people or pvp.
The problem happens when YOU have a new stronger unit which makes YOUR older unit no longer worth playing because they do the same thing but one does it in a more efficient way than another. And considering the high cost associated with every unit (time spent, F2P resources spent, possibly money spent), this creates a bad feeling in the player because they effectively wasted that cost.
@@SeravySensei I talked about pvp because when people bring up power creep, they act like this game has some kind of pvp system where if you don't get the latest unit or play the latest meta team then you are screwed.
"The problem happens when YOU have a new stronger unit which makes YOUR older unit no longer worth playing because they do the same thing but one does it in a more efficient way than another."
This is not an argument to hate power creep. You can clear spiral abyss with your old units. Choosing not to use said character because another unit is stronger or more efficient on your account is a choice that you are making. Your spiral abyss time also isn't affected by someone having a more proficient unit on their account, since like I've said, It's your account being tested.
"And considering the high cost associated with every unit (time spent, F2P resources spent, possibly money spent), this creates a bad feeling in the player because they effectively wasted that cost."
"feeling bad" is not an argument to hate power creep. We can make just the same baseless argument of feeling bad when someone rolls better artifact than you. We can also make this same argument to 4stars and 5 stars, whereby u spend time building up a 4 star unit then later obtain a 5 star that does their job better (e.g. kazuha and sucrose).
@@SeravySensei Actually, this isn't as big a problem as it might seem at first. For example, I have both Clorinde and Keqing. Keqing I got a long time ago and she accompanied many hours of my early game. But after 2-3 years, much as I love Keqing, playing her has kind of got stale. So Clorinde is like a breath of fresh air, plus she hits harder too. Can't be doing the same-old-same-old all the time, plus Keqing has already paid back in spades via the times I spent with her for the level of investment that I put into building her. Plus, I can always take her out just for old times sake.
You missed the whole point of the video and completely so.
For one, Genshin's powercreep problem comes from a lack of variety in combat endgame content not the balance. This means that all the time and resources and hours of playing that goes into building a unit feels really like a waste when everyone around is "playing with the new shiny toy that has 10x more features". The game is made more "fun" by artificially bloating character kits rather than creating a richer open world experience (with replayable dungeons, adjustable bosses, stage effects, etc.)
This becomes massive problem for casuals as resources (i.e. primogems) become thin the more developed your account it. It also means newer players have units that can beat the content faster and more conveniently than you (i.e. lot less time wasted in overworld). The gameplay experience of someone whose first 5 star was Keqinq (i.e. mine) vs someone having a Furina (walks on water, heals, auto attacks hilicurls on towers, higher dmg for self and team, etc) is night and day.
A P v P system focuses on a leaderboard, like we have in Hi3, where the balance is a lot tighter: Abyss favours a very narrow group of viable playstyles due to stage effects, "weather" (buffs for certain teams) and abyss "disturbance" (enemy difficulty) at that rank. The balance discussion and insane powercreep we have in Hi3 is totally separate discussion to the Genshin powercreep. But a P v P discussion doesnt invalidate the existence of a P v E discussion on the same topic. If you listened to what I said in the vid: "The game does not give us enough content to meaningfully distinguish an Arlecchino from Clorinde" rather than "The dps of Arlecchino is 10X, but Clorinde's is 5X, after all buffs are accounted for." The two conversations are different.
@@KokomiClan I'm not seeing what point you are trying to make though. GI for the most part is a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. This means that all END GAME CONTENT (even if new) will depend on what is on your account and what you have available. If you create more end game content, it is still your account being tested and no one ELSES. Your ability to clear content will be on how well you've managed your account and built up your character. And thanks to MHY not wanting to scare off casuals, they tend to make the threshold for clearing rather low. And let's be real here, MHY is a multi- billion dollar company, they can easily do both (make more powerful characters + make new end game content). The reason they haven't made any end game was due to complacency, since they had no competitor for years and people were content with characters and weapons.
Your second paragraph isn't really an argument to hate power creep. It's basically envy of hating the fact that newer players can get access to stronger characters that older players did not have access to when they first started out. This is pretty normal and standard for most gacha games, and MHY even has system in place that gives out better reward to starting players than those that started in 1.0. In addition, this game again is a SINGLE PLAYER game, you shouldn't be concern on what's on another person account. You also shouldn't be concern if another person can clear content faster than you since it doesn't affect you in anyway. If you are concern about that then you should also hate whales that have C6 on multiple 5 stars that you own.
"This becomes massive problem for casuals as resources (i.e. primogems) become thin the more developed your account it. It also means newer players have units that can beat the content faster and more conveniently than you (i.e. lot less time wasted in overworld). The gameplay experience of someone whose first 5 star was Keqinq (i.e. mine) vs someone having a Furina (walks on water, heals, auto attacks hilicurls on towers, higher dmg for self and team, etc) is night and day. "
This is completely false. Veteran players that don't waste their resources on "pull for who u like" bs and invested their in game currency wisely will have several built up teams that can clear content comfortably. Meanwhile, new and younger players may have access to powerful units, but they often will have much smaller roster of characters and deficits in their team (e.g. lack of shielders/healers, crowd controller, good dps etc). In addition, newer players would have missed out on past events, and their rewards (exclusive weapon+ primo gems) due to starting later. So if a younger player can reach to 36 stars at a faster rate then I think it balances out given that they would have missed out on many past events.
"A P v P system focuses on a leaderboard, like we have in Hi3, where the balance is a lot tighter: Abyss favours a very narrow group of viable playstyles due to stage effects, "weather" (buffs for certain teams) and abyss "disturbance" (enemy difficulty) at that rank. The balance discussion and insane powercreep we have in Hi3 is totally separate discussion to the Genshin powercreep. "
A PvP would be a terrible idea, since everyone will run freeze teams and all the top players on the leader board will be whales. This will essentially just give extra rewards to people that already don't need it. F2P/low spenders that need it the most will likely get few rewards.
""The game does not give us enough content to meaningfully distinguish an Arlecchino from Clorinde" rather than "The dps of Arlecchino is 10X, but Clorinde's is 5X, after all buffs are accounted for." The two conversations are different."
This is due to stagnation of the spiral abyss and MHY not wanting to hurt casuals by making it too hard. They can very easily increase the difficulty of the mobs if they wanted too. More diverse content is welcomed, but it does not mean that it can't go without powercreep. For example, HSR has done a good job in making more powerful units, while also making diverse end game content.
A very simple solution to the above would be to make a floor 13. But MHY does not want to do this because they are stingy, which is why they split some of the Spiral abyss' reward into the new end game.
Pointless topic. I don't care if its a Hot take but, using the "there is no content to justify playing " is honestly just a dogwater statement that it just makes me think people are just coping whether or not they should get this unit. Genshin is and always will be, A CASUAL GAME. I don't care if people cry about "what's the point of building them then" coz the point is you pull for the characters you like and you will clear content with them if you really wanted them to do so. A dehya can clear floor 12 and she is arguably the worst unit in the game and so will Xinyan but I don't see anyone complaining about that.
Why the hostility? Have you ever thought that maybe people spend a lot of time in the game and want to use their units in a way that makes it feel like their character was worth the grind? Having an unbalanced roster is not fun.
Saying Genshin is a casual game is your interpretation. If you make any content or speedrun, like I do here, the game is anything but casual.
Lastly, this is not about clearing the abyss but about how the format of that (limited) content drives player decisions. We want a game with longevity, hence advocating for format changes.
The issue that many face with the idea of encouraging to pull for more characters is that the game is super expensive. Is you want a character you need more than 100 dolars for a 50-50 chance. That is why many skip banners so they can save primogems for the characters they want.
Daddy chill 😂😂😂😂