This quote is truth Also I COMPLETELY agree I've played with and against pros, they tend to say hey that's smart and really strong to my Traptrix/Rangnaraika/Rikka deck and then players that barely have played tell me hey don't run those it's not consistent/strong enough. But those are the same cards that win me games and those pros say hey I never thought of that and it completely screwed me over. And for those wondering it's specially certain hole cards, give it a look there's an answer to basically everything Banishing Trap Hole, Chain Hole and Network Trap Hole.
@@apsamplifier this quote counters your point you know. This quote proves that players SHOULD take more feedback on making more optimal plays because none of us are perfect and will always have more to learn from others
My fav was in a recent Josh stream, someone in chat was like, "why don't you do this combo?" And Josh was like "buddy I'm in the middle of doing that RIGHT NOW."
One of my biggest pet peeves is when you lose a duel, and 1 or 2 guys from your locals comes up to you and proceeds to tell you what you did wrong, or what you could have done to win. Like I'm all for trying to help other players and give information, but doing it immediately after a loss is always annoying as hell. Give me at least 20 minutes lol
Annoying yes, but only because of your own pride. There are many who actually strive to get better and dont have the luxury of such a “peer review”. There are many who would kill for great advice that would improve their plays and jettison them into becoming a better duelist.
@@cooldes4593lmao half the time then mfs don’t know how the cards work anyway. Then you gotta tell em what locks you’re under or that you used an effect earlier that turn and all they got is “oh yeah I forgot, bad luck” lmao. Not everyone giving advice knows what they’re taking about… like the video said.
i have a different experience where someone was curious because i bricked hard both rounds so i lost quick…but when i showed him examples after where if i didn’t brick, he only asked what i would do. and in the examples i didn’t brick and showed him what i could have done and understood what i was trying to do and how easily i could do it…if i didn’t draw the same garnet (one of my few one ofs) and things i couldn’t really use to get started. that’s when he realized he got lucky since my deck could have done more than he saw.
I agree if those people are just local and you are not that close with each other. If it’s my friend I would like them to tell me ASAP cause I can still remember clearly what happened and discuss further
100% agree. The only advice I give to people at locals is "here's a way I think you could make this list better" but I never insinuate they should change decks
I was playing Neos hero when everybody else playing heros at my locals was running Omni hero. I had the last laugh when I won in time with Neo Spacian Hummingbird 😎 people kept saying “this dude is Jaden Yuki holy crap” I was on top of the world and that was a moment where I was really satisfied that I picked the fun choice over the “technically optimal” choice
What's really tricky about Yugioh is that people often divide into "Casual vs. Meta" But the reality is it's more like a spectrum. You can have decks or cards like Red Eyes Dragun that are not even slightly competetively viable, but absolutely stomp any casual room. Or archetypes that are "trash" which actually play perfectly fine, just not against the top power level. I talked on the discord about how the phrase: "Unplayable" gets overused. That said, sometimes there really ARE decks that are just a mess. For example, against anything other than LIGHT monsters, Ally of Justice is almost completely useless. Not in a "Well meta stomps." sense, but in a: "You might as well play Vanilla monsters" sense.
I think this goes beyond even people who play competitively. You had a thread on Twitter a bit ago where you asked how you'd on-board new players, and the main response was don't. But one of the main angles people talked about with not getting into yugioh is that playing competitively sucks (this is really boiled down). Which I agree that the current meta isn't great (beyond fiendsmith and snake eyes, all the ftk shenanigans), but I feel there was this assumption throughout the entire community that you can only play yugioh competitively, so when competitive sucks, yugioh isn't worth playing, even to a new player. And it's really odd because we all play. We're generally here because we play, and there is fun to be had. I can't explain enough how much fun I've recently had in Master Duel playing bad decks like Kozmo and pure Yang Zings in bronze, silver and gold. I'd argue that this space of non-tiered decks is almost always fun to play, as long as you play in the same relative deck strength.
The issue is that space is only fun so long as competitive players don't know and interact with it also it's just the current meta it's the nature of the modern game at this point and the mentality of competitive players who don't and refuse to learn how to be chill
@michaelkeha I just disagree though. A beginner is only facing competitive players? Competitive meta is the only way for a new player to play? I'd say no. Newer players can start at any point in power really, and as long as they learn the game, they can get in as deep as they want. There are indeed some barriers, you won't compete against top decks super well, and for master duel you can't make it to diamond with an underpowered deck (at least not without a good amount of skill and grinding). But you're a beginner then, that shouldn't be a worry. If the person who gets you into the game is a competitive snake eyes player who stomps you in when you're playing your deck of completely random cards because you're just starting, I wouldn't call that a fault of the game but of your friend being a complete jerk.
Mistakes by definition are not something you should strive for. Not being perfect and making mistakes is an argument FOR having others help you improve instead of being stubborn and stuck in your ways of making bad plays
@@cooldes4593 don’t chastise people for making mistakes, that was the point of that part of my comment. And yet here you are, commenting about how I wasn’t specific enough in my original comment. which is admittedly a mistake on my part, but 72 people were able to understand what I meant. Additionally, why I touched on that. mistakes/misplays are not inherently the same as playing suboptimal with said suboptimal point being covered in the video. Thus I wanted to cover all the bases
@@Ked7 saying “dont chastise people for making mistakes” is really a nothing point. No one is advocating for making fun of people making honest mistakes. The video is about not telling people how to play, which explicitly includes not always telling people to make the optimal plays or telling people the optimal deckbuilding. I disagree with this, as ive stated. Feedback is a good thing because we arent perfect and make mistakes. Advocating against feedback imo is a bad take. Ill take your comment at its best case interpretation though and concede
This is in every single competitive level of pvp games. Trying anything that makes you curious or that seems niche is the best way to discover your style and what's strong FOR YOU in any game. Excellent discussion!
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK‼️ In an attempt to do just this, I swapped out my Ash Blossoms for Ghost Ogres, as well as some of the "good" traps for "worse" dinomorphia traps. It changes how you approach duels and everything else you said. I feel like only having one format also forces people into only thinking about the most optimal way to play, which comes with its pros and cons
I prefer Pure decks too, I agree, but if I post a shitty, 3-hit combo in a guilty gear game, I expect someone to say "Not Optimal" or "You could do better". Same thing with Yugioh, some people want to help others, but don't know how else to show it. The point should be helping people learn how to help others improve in a way that doesn't come off as rude.
I just want to play my Cyberdark deck in peace. I think the cards are cool, which is 95% of the reason I picked three of that structure off of the shelf recently.
Some people can't make the optimal plays, because the cards required to make those plays, are too expensive. So sometimes finding budget alternatives is necessary.
I'm all for constructive criticism because I'm always looking to improve my game and my decks, but to straight up tell me not to run X deck or Y card is not the way to do it.
One of the most fun you'll ever have is if you play something you admit might be suboptimal but in that ONE game when it works out. Like playing Sky Striker with Vector Blast, and your opponent summons an Avramax with IP as material and then you land that Vector Blast and win because of it.
The best way to duel imo is a dance between optimization, and your personality. I want my deck to feel like it's mine, not just a list that's 'the best'. I have a pet structure deck that is my go to deck in physical, and one of my 3 common picks in Master Duel. Machina's. It's probably not going to top the charts any day soon, but i kitted it Machine supports and think about how i can boost it up (Atm i got some ACE's that i will work into labbing). I probably can find the most optimal and perfect build, and memorize the line to a strong victory using that build list, but i won't get the same sense of accomplishment as I would from one of my own crazy beta deck builds that only I would make and eliminate via wins and losses.
I'm in the process of building Branded Despia irl (Need some of the Cartesia support and Slifer). Branded Despia Slifer is really fun to play even if it may not be "optimal" or "good", but it is imo the best way to play Slifer.
Yeah I memorized a kashtira combo to make a tomahawk negate board that wins most matchups if I can bait ash but man did it feel hackey. Now running a kashtira syncro deck that is a lot of fun. They always expect the xyz for ariseheart but if unicorn gets negated I just spam out psychic tuners and build a big board. They waste resources and end up scooping because it isn't typical kashtira meta play
The more I play this game, the more I realize that Yugioh attracts the most annoying, socially inept people ever. I have to be blunt (and a bit dramatic) about this because it really sucks sitting down trying to play a game, only to have an arm chair general blab about how you should have played better (rubbing it in your face more if you lost). I wish more events had a better way of mitigating this issue (especially at the local level). I see this on comments from other Yugituber's channel as well. God Smith of Chaos posted his Spright video few days ago and a couple commenters grilled him for a simple mistake any Spright player (new and old) could make Telling someone how to play or responding with excessively harsh critique is how we push players away from this game. /rant
One of the things I enjoy the most is when you have that moment on enlighment when I play a new deck and things start making sense without being told how and when to play the cards. In short finding by myself how things work is one of the best parts of the game.
Everyone’s reason for playing differs. It’s a diverse community of players. Some are for competition. Some are for the race to being number one. Some are in it for casual play (me!). It’s not so much about what plays you did & didn’t make in a duel. It’s ideal to learn after the fact. Because the more you play, the more you learn inherently. It’s naturally in this game. You can always learn from others who have built their own. But everyone’s minds & strategies will always naturally differ. Some folks want to accomplish certain things in a match. Some want to play so optimally their chances of win percentage skyrocket. Either way, just recognize we all play for different reasons & as long as it’s for fun at the end of the day, ya just can’t hate on it! Love the game your way! But seriously, I recommend casual play at least occasionally!! Might take the edge off! Good day, duelists!
I absolutely love catching people off guard with weird wacky things. Like imagine your expecting to see the same five decks at your locals and then all of a sudden, Celtic Guardian control!??!?
I still remember when Heavy Storm first became legal after the first time it got banned, way back in like 2009 or 2010, and it caused a huge stir in the player base, causing many to either stop running traps entirely or go out of their way to find whatever counters to it they could. That's when I dusted off my Secret Rare Judgement of Anubis and threw it into my Watt deck. Sure it was niche and situational, but it was insanely satisfying to use, especially when I used it against my friend and used it to save my backrow and take out his Shooting Star Dragon. As you said, moments like that are the ones you remember forever.
It's funny when you ask someone why they're using card "A" and not "B", and they just can't explain why. Most people will give you an answer like "that's the card everyone who plays this deck uses". And if you make a suggestion for a change, everyone goes crazy. It's okay to copy decks from the internet, but at least understand why all of them are on the list. And why others aren't.
I think the optimal andys come from a place of frustration Which I kinda understand. Even on my own video about Yugioh, I get people in the comments complaining so much about how the modern game sucks and their deck doesn’t do anything and how every single game they watch their opponent pop off for 20 minutes etc etc And my response always is, if EVERY game you play, ends with your opponent solitaring and you not being able to do anything about it, the problems clearly with your deck building; not the game or the deck itself. (Sure, sometimes there’s nothing you can do, but it shouldn’t be happening consistently) Low and behold; they’re playing like, 3 ash in their deck as the only point of interaction going 2nd, and wonder why their opponents always pop off. Then you gotta explain well yeah, A. If you’re only playing 3 copies of a card that interacts with your opponent, you’re rarely gonna see it, and when you DO, it’s only 1 point of interaction which is rarely enough in the modern game. Then it goes into a whole topic of statistics and if you want to see at minimum 1 hand trap / board breaker / whatever interaction you got in your deck in your opening hand; you’ve gotta play 7 of them in a 40 card deck to maximise that consistency (I think I don’t remember the exact number lol) So people who already play the game and already know this stuff get frustrated at people that don’t, cause the people that don’t get frustrated that they can’t play, not knowing it’s kinda their own fault but won’t change cause they really like X card and won’t cut un-optimal stuff. TLDR, it’s all a big mess lol But you’re right, let people play. Forget about what everyone else is going and focus on your own deck building
Yugioh is about expression. Deckbuilding is a vital skill. These two facts combine to say that you shouldn't feel beholden to the meta and always have to be mindful of the fact that you can be facing a unique deck. Perfect play is only rewarding when you win. Expressive play is rewarding in and of itself.
Had this happen last week at locals. I know the guy meant well and I did end up asking him for advice unrelated to that, but it can be kind of annoying if the advice isn't asked for.
Crazy thing is when I play MD, I use decks/archetypes of all different types. But I usually try to play decks that don’t negate or just seem like a game of solitary. I put in random cards and combos and it’s always the people who have optimized decks that always have something weird to say. I remember going 11-2 in a private room with majespecter exodia and I 6-0’d this guy and he said I got lucky that I won with a gimmick and that my deck isn’t optimal and it’s horrendous. Yet they played an “optimal kashtira snake eyes” deck. Straight off a meta weekly list. Don’t be like that guy, miserable that they copied a top tier list yet couldn’t out perform a raccoon and a guy with 5 limbs trying to assemble themselves…
@2:00 that’s what I love about the “game”, the strategy. If everyone is running the bread and butter combo you know what’s going to happen. What makes the game fun is when you don’t know what’s going to happen and you have to react! That’s how original yugioh was
I've had so many opportunities in several tcgs where a card (or cards) that had been discounted due to not holding up to a meta perform tremendously well in a deck I make because I'm focusing on a different idea/synergy. I wish more players opened themselves up to trying things out for fun and to allow themselves that discovery (like you talked about)
This posted 9 hrs ago so this might get buried, but I’m the EXACT kind of player as you Paul!!! Have you ever considered interviewing other archetype purists like yourself, such as The Archfiend Guy? I’d LOVE to hear you two talk about why you are both purists, etc. 😍
On the pure deck topic, I always saw profiles and had people tell me that playing Wailing of the Unchained Souls was not optimal in the early days of Unchained. I always ran it as an extra started and a handy utility card in case I couldn’t use monster effects (it helped me a lot against the local Mystic Mines players). I now feel vindicated now that it’s caught up as a good pick nowadays.
Remember the fun as a kid of spreading your cards out on your bed or floor and trying to build a fun new deck? I would often break down decks I was having success with because I wanted the fun of building a new deck. At the end of the day outside of a tournament setting it's just a game, just have some fun.
This goes with a lot of things, let beginners make mistakes and guide them there. Ask them questions on the decisions they make, and guide them to the answer, rather than just telling them a solution, it shows care where the latter can come off as hostile.
I've got a related story. I was at my locals a few weeks ago, playing Memento. During game 2 of round 2, I sided in Dark Hole Dragon. It's not optimal in Memento, but it won me the match. Point is, you don't have to homogenize your deck to enjoy it and win games.
People are just afraid of doing different things. This hive mentality is toxic. I recently built my own version of White Forests away from the usual Centurion, Fiendsmith and Runick builds and opted for Melodious to decently good success so far. To my surprise, Melodious and WF synergizes fairly well via the fact Melodious covers the weaknesses of WF (Droll, Shifter and the like) to an absolute tee. The Melodious scales Refrain and Couplet also allows you to continue your plays with the White Girls if they get Impermed. 70% win-loss ratio so far during testing. People just gotta have a more open mind and allow more creative freedom in the game. A lot of people will be surprised to what can come up.
back in the Yugiboomer days, at least in my area, the people who had that optimization in mind were usually lumped in with the "Net-Deckers", the definition has changed over time, but back then it was people who built the top decks but had no idea how to actually play them (because there wasn't an effective way to see *how* they played or get much testing at the time), but would still trash talk or bully other players for not playing the optimized builds - even if they themselves lost with the deck they copied. The turns have tabled, as in the past it was seen as uncool to net-deck, and now you get sh!t on by people if you don't copy the champs' build card for card. It leaves little room for experimenting, outside of the champs themselves.
i’ve been waiting for some good Dark Magician support that can return a DM from banished (within archetype). Or a better retrain of DM that always counts as DM so maybe it can do more than just be vanilla. just SOMETHING to spice it up and give my boy some love.
@@GiovanniColon-r6d sadly, it is a crappy DM card. it’s true power is only with the sarc. it works great with the theme of what shining sarc cards are and do…but not with the DM as an archetype. points against the shining sarc DM: it’s only DM while in the field. not the deck, hand, or GY. so can’t be searched by the usual means, and can’t be special summoned by Eternal Soul. and for use with making Dragoon…it’s an effect monster so unless you use red eyes as part of the fusion (and you really don’t want to even think of using more than one copy of red eyes, if at all). and at least with red eyes fusion, you can use the red eyes and DM from the deck…and the shiny sarc DM wouldn’t count since it isn’t DM in the deck. So for shining sarc…it’s likely fine. but for dedicated DM decks…it’s pretty bad.
I totally agree with the total freedom that this game should allow you, my fav deck to play on master duel is melffys and tcg it’s lair of darkness x fang of critias because 1 i just love the cards and 2 it’s really interesting to catch people off guard and watch their brains wirr in the background and they try to figure out how to out mirror force dragon x lilith. The game should allow this, it’s the point of having so many cards and is one of the reasons why i love it so much
One one hand, you're absolutely right, playing what is considered to be an optimal list may not align with the goals of the person playing the deck or the environment in which the deck is played. People should be encouraged to deviate from the beaten path and find new ways to both express themselves through deckbuilding and find counters to their own local meta. On the other hand... There's only so much you can go off the beaten path before you fall off a cliff. If one of my friend complains how the game is garbage because he can't win... only for me to see that he's playing LSWARM+VENDREAD... telling him to drop the nonsense for something that at least conceptually makes sense isn't bad advice either.
I also use reinforce because it can help dodge hand traps and resets spell cards. And preventer’s quick effect to summon back a monster has come in clutch.
This reminds me of when I wanted to play Dogmatika Fire King. I looked for builds on a Facebook group, an there were so many people saying stuff like "This build sucks. Wait for the Snake-Eye cards." My thought was not everyone has, or wants to spend, that kind of money. Yeah, the Dogmatika build might not be as strong, but I liked the play style. More recently, with the HERO deck, I wanted to run Winged Kuriboh LV6 in the deck, but most people were saying how bad the card was. Those same people say how stale the deck is since there's never any innovation or new support. Well, we got a new card, but you're immediately writing it off as bad. Try it out and see. I personally like it, and think it comes in handy. If you're not the most competitive player, you don't need to play the most optimal deck. It's okay to try something different. In fact, experimental builds and decks can have success in tournaments. You really never know if you don't try it out.
My favorite part of siding in a locals is trying out a new tech option. Lately, I’ve added “De-Fusion” and “Silent Graveyard.” I’ve gone against a lot of Yubels and hitting them with De-Fusion, takes care of that worry (or hitting their Super Poly monster with De-Fusion, I can get MY monsters back on the field so it undoes Super Poly and they go Minus 2) and Silent Graveyard takes care of cards like Poplar, Promethean Princess and Flamberge. I play Kashtira so I don’t need my GY and it’s easier for me to play into a board by shutting off their GY effects before I ever start breaking their board.
Running de fusion is actually as hilarious as it is brilliant icl. Ima try that shit out of you don’t mind lol. I run a labrynth virus deck with lightforce sword in it and it hits like crack lmao.
@@marshalkagami the first time my friend and I started playing Duel Links together, I summoned my boss monster (fusion) and he activated De-Fusion on me and it totally threw me for a loop 😂 it’s such a great anti Super Poly answer if they wipe your board away, you can continue playing. And sure go for it. I’m always willing to share my latest gimmicks.
I've been thinking about playing a Monk Control deck. I discovered 2 years ago of a level 4 walking skill drain spellcaster that negates any effect monster your opponent owns when summoned in attack mode. So far I only found 4 level spell casters, of different elements, that are monk related. I actually wanted to make an actual cartoon deck that is fun to play that isn't Toon Monster related.
I know someone like this in my locals. He just spouts nonsense and expects every one to play like him or how the meta should be played. And when he does, my first response is to just tell him to stfu. I can care less what excuse he has or what explanation he’s giving, I want people to learn their own way rather than how every one else plays.
Reminds me of an Mtg Draft i had recently. We were in Deck building and I offhand make a comment that the Lands i pulled don'r really support the colors I wanna play. So one of the other players asks if they could take a look at my card pool to help me figure it out. I say "sure" and they take a look at my pool... and then say "Why would you even want to play this color? You have like 2usable cards in here." Honestly, felt like getting punched in the face. How dare I not play the most optimal cards possible in this "kitchen table" draft amongf friends?
It is genuinely one of my biggest peeves in this game to see people talk about decks or cards, especially ones they have never actually played, and say something like "you don't play this" or "this one doesn't do anything". There are some obvious cases where this can apply, like a modern hero deck probably isn't going to be playing avian, but in most cases it's a lot more subjective and dependent on the rest of the deck. Somehow people seem to have forgotten that most decks in this game are made to be modular with some level of toolboxing available. There is rarely a single correct way to play it, you have different options based on how you want to play a deck or what outcome you prioritize out of it. And like you mentioned with the rescue-ace example, the element of surprise from playing a card that is less popular is very real and can easily impact a game. And maybe people will play something suboptimally because their goal is to have fun doing something they want with a deck rather than making the end board as strong as possible or maximize the consistency of doing something. Not to mention, this kind of mentality is something that CONSISTENTLY gets overturned with time. Even in the few years I've returned to the modern game, I have lost count of how many times either a deck was being played in a certain way and then somebody topping with a different way made people realize that there are actually different things you can do, OR an old format that was considered "solved" suddenly had a development that completely changed how people looked at a deck. And in most of these cases, all it took was a single person performing at an event to show how wrong the naysayers were. Simultaneous equation cannon recently got some time in the spotlight for its performance at an event, but before that nobody took it seriously and I'd be willing to bet money there were other people who wanted to play it beforehand but were told it's bad and won't ever resolve for them and got discouraged
ive been waiting for centur-ion for a while in MD, and when it released last month all i really saw on discord was people being so angry about how bad they felt the cards were it almost felt like genuine hate which felt really demotivating to even start pulling the pack i had been waiting for.
I just go off of instinct and I'll cut stuff that doesn't do as much. I used a 60 card skull servant grass deck with every once per turn gy effect I could put in as possible. People laughed at the decklist until necro gardna, alghoul mazera, and bacon saver along with titanocider and lost wind protected me. Then the next turn galaxy cyclone pops backrow and king goes in for lethal. Sometimes the meta isn't ready for constructive deck building.
I remember some dude wanted to make a modern blue eyes deck and posted a list he thought was good on reddit. He got bomarded with comments telling him to screw that archetype and offered 0 deck building advice. I understand telling the person that the deck is bricky but atleast offer advice on the build itself. Sigh, so rude.
Yugi is the true deckmaster winning duels with all sorts of archetypes in the same deck and getting every card he needs every turn. Strive to be like Yugi :)
Just a passing thought: People in the community often coincide Optimal = Skilled. I often hear these things: 1. "I have memorized 100+ Lines and Scenarios (That i copied off others) that can interact with my deck hence i am skilled because i put in the work in memorizing it". 2. "I have built the perfect deck RATIO that will give me 63% chance if i play 3 of this starter and 1 of this makes me more skilled" 3. "Konami we need more interactions so i can show off how good i am so i need new card that enables me to shutdown FTK Burn 1 turn my opponent and not letting them play by taking 30 minute turns I don't like you printing floodgates like mystic mine because i can't show off how good i am. Yet proceeds to floodgate FTK Burn the opponent by playing solitaire." 4. "Why are you playing Non-Meta? Are you poor?" Just my opinion but these are exactly the statements and mindsets that led the game to its current game state. We are not all competitive players, most of us have jobs and just wanna play with random strangers in the community and maybe make some new friends. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with these statements if they were playing: Rogue, or Decks with histories of never being Tier 0, non meta in general and bringing them to Regional Events Being told by YGO Scholars on how many cards of a certain type i should play, what decks i should play just make me gag and turn me away from the game. I'd rather listen to the guy that plays a Kuriboh/Altergeist Variant and Destroys you 1 out 4 times because he found a strange/fun/quirky way to make you hit yourself with some creative combo. that's how i know when Im learning new things and can probably improve upon the original deck idea he/she had.
I do recommend to play or build a deck optimally. Not to stifle their creativity, but so that they learn the deck of what it wants to do. If you don't know how to play the deck then whatever experimenting you're doing isn't exactly going to help you whether or not you do see success. If you have a strong understanding of the fundamentals of the deck, have fun and experiment.
I have come to the realization that, specifically for myself, the best way to experience Yugioh is through video games. The thing I enjoyed the most about the game was the variety I saw watching the Anime. It was so rare to ever see someone using the same deck as another character. I've spent so much time playing Duel Links and I like thay there are around 100 different characters I can play against all using different decks. And this allows me the freedom to use whatever archetypes I want without having to listen to backseat duelist complaining about me not using a meta deck.
I think most of ygos problems would just disappear if people treated it like UNO. every friend group has its own set of arbitrary personalized rules that they follow cuz it makes the game the most fun for them. You wouldnt have much fun playing UNO or monopoly with strangers why would you think it would be any different with ygo ? and i think that we just need to fix our expectations that unless we set some ground rules, it will be a sacky min-maxy just gotta win environment. best example is how even in the "for fun" cups and events in MD people still do everything they can to drain the fun outta things. so we cant look to konami this has to be self policing with friends or people you know at locals.
I love that a lot of people still don't know about ferret flames cuz' they find use for it but for dinomorphia players that card is goated and at least for me one of the most satisfying ways to clear a board specially for opponents making fun of me for having just 8 life points left lmao
Mastery is hard to obtain in Yu-Gi-Oh. I’m a fan of mastering an Archetype and growing with the metagame. For me Yu-Gi-Oh is about raising to the challenge or overwhelming a disempowered opponent.
I just got back from teaching a friend how to play, and as a joke I played a Muscle Medic stall deck and watched him get 47K ATK with Ra. Needless to say I faced the unmatched power of Sunny D. This is why you encourage just playing any archetype with newcomers because you get great moments like that
This kind of thing is always going to exist in some form or fashion and isn't exclusive to yugioh. Years ago when I used to go to locals and the odd event (11'-15' time) I used to roll cards like Dark Bribe from time to time, and kept a copy of Cursed Seal of The Forbidden Spell in my main deck, and 2 more handy in the sideboard. Folks used to give me grief over Dark Bribe saying "why would you run that cause it gives card advantage to the opponent." While that can be true, imo if that one card wins them the duel then the duel was already over. Folks like to trash the card but it's saved my bacon multiple times. Folks used to say "why would you use Cursed Seal since you have to waste 2 cards for something that may not work." One guy in particular hooked his gf at the time up with a Maleifc Deck which she did well with. She won some matches which inflated dude's ego a bit and hers too. Problem with the deck is it relied on Malefic World heavily. Losing 1 or even 2 copies of it wasn't usually an issue for the deck, but losing the 3rd meant game over. I got paired against her and was one of the 2 dragon guys at locals at the time. They both thought it would be an easy win since I didn't get a great start even with 6 cards going first (this was before 1st turn draw was removed), so I set a facedown monster, 3 backrow and passed. She goes to play a couple cards to set herself up, then goes to activate her field spell. I flip Cursed Seal over and pitch a spell card from hand. Rest of the duel lasted 2 more turns. They were both big mad. Didn't see them much after that. But folks at locals stopped giving me grief over keeping that card handy.
reminds me of a time i played a guy who swore he knew everything and what to run and not run in decks. funny thing is is we played a dark world mirror match and I was using skill drain and I 2-0ed him and he still proceed to tell me how to play by stating to not play skill drain when using the deck. skill drain was the reason i won...
I hate when I play a deck and someone wants to give me advice for making it better and their solution is removing half of the archetypes monsters. Why am I even playing the deck?
So I play causal with friends, way more casual than a locals casual. I've asked a few times on reddit with help on some pure archtypes that are stupid. Being told don't even try it, or play it this way with only 2 cards of the archtype I wanna play really gets old. Everything is always so optimal. Im convinced people don't even have fun
Me personally, I just look up some budget friendly decklist on youtube or master duel meta of an archetype I wanna play, look to see if it's good enough to get me to platinum or diamond tier, then build it. Heck, I did that with a Branded deck with a Predaplant engine and it seems like a lot of fun to play. It's half branded and half predaplants. I can't wait to test it.
A misplay is only a mistake if your opponent can punish you for it, by playing optimally you are predictable and easier to beat, sometimes playing right into a card made to counter that style of play or that deck. If everyone is thinking the same, someone is not thinking! "Grand horn of heaven" is over all a bad card, but! it can stop a summoning and end there main phase, forcing them into there battle phase before they are ready for it, often without controlling any monsters at all or at least none they are willing to attack with. Any card capable of ending the main phase should be explored. Also a long time ago in old school yugioh they where several cards I would play that no one else would and I would win due to those cards. Case in point "Non-aggressive area" and "Riryoku" both where over looked by everyone else, but quickly became signature cards of mine for I would put them in every deck I would build. Each person in our group had cards that only they used and we where all convinced ours was good and there was bad. One person though there was a code in the names of cards and just knew that if it had mirror in the name it was a good card. Any time Fairy's hand mirror resolved we where all impressed, but it rarely amounted to much.
I made a rather straightforward deck with White Magician/Princess Pikeru and Ebon Magician/Princess Curran as the, I guess, theme of the deck. Well I never really got to playtest it much as my play group is majority Magic focused so we don't really play Yu-Gi-Oh much. Anywho, one day we were actually playing Yu-Gi-Oh when someone came up wanting to play a round but didn't have any decks so I let him use one of mine. He picked the Pikeru/Curran deck, played one hand and immediately went off about how much the deck sucked and how much my deckbuilding sucked and that he'd never use another of my decks ever again. I was just like "ok?"
1 copy per card except pick 2 cards that you can run at 3, or pick 3 cards that you can run at 2, banlist still applies - try this for fun then people wont really talk about "optimal plays"
Just really started trying to get back in the game like last year. Really enjoying Tear Lightsworn on Master Duel. Hopefully I can convert most of it to TCG. I
_The more you think you've got it all figured out, the more wrong you are._
This is the best topic video you have ever made. 👍👍👍👍👌👌👌👌👏👏👏👏
Cubics where
This quote is truth
Also I COMPLETELY agree I've played with and against pros, they tend to say hey that's smart and really strong to my Traptrix/Rangnaraika/Rikka deck and then players that barely have played tell me hey don't run those it's not consistent/strong enough. But those are the same cards that win me games and those pros say hey I never thought of that and it completely screwed me over. And for those wondering it's specially certain hole cards, give it a look there's an answer to basically everything Banishing Trap Hole, Chain Hole and Network Trap Hole.
@@apsamplifier this quote counters your point you know.
This quote proves that players SHOULD take more feedback on making more optimal plays because none of us are perfect and will always have more to learn from others
Wow u stoled caleb quote
My fav was in a recent Josh stream, someone in chat was like, "why don't you do this combo?" And Josh was like "buddy I'm in the middle of doing that RIGHT NOW."
Remember: Your deck is only bad/sub optimal until you top with it 😂
One of my biggest pet peeves is when you lose a duel, and 1 or 2 guys from your locals comes up to you and proceeds to tell you what you did wrong, or what you could have done to win. Like I'm all for trying to help other players and give information, but doing it immediately after a loss is always annoying as hell. Give me at least 20 minutes lol
Annoying yes, but only because of your own pride. There are many who actually strive to get better and dont have the luxury of such a “peer review”. There are many who would kill for great advice that would improve their plays and jettison them into becoming a better duelist.
@@cooldes4593lmao half the time then mfs don’t know how the cards work anyway. Then you gotta tell em what locks you’re under or that you used an effect earlier that turn and all they got is “oh yeah I forgot, bad luck” lmao. Not everyone giving advice knows what they’re taking about… like the video said.
i have a different experience where someone was curious because i bricked hard both rounds so i lost quick…but when i showed him examples after where if i didn’t brick, he only asked what i would do. and in the examples i didn’t brick and showed him what i could have done and understood what i was trying to do and how easily i could do it…if i didn’t draw the same garnet (one of my few one ofs) and things i couldn’t really use to get started. that’s when he realized he got lucky since my deck could have done more than he saw.
@@MajinVegito100 thats great but this video isnt about that. This video is specifically about people telling the optimal play
I agree if those people are just local and you are not that close with each other. If it’s my friend I would like them to tell me ASAP cause I can still remember clearly what happened and discuss further
100% agree. The only advice I give to people at locals is "here's a way I think you could make this list better" but I never insinuate they should change decks
winning with magic cyclinder is STILL my favourite thing to do EVER.
Mahaama is great too. They never see it coming. Especially in non burn decks. Empty field? Imma swing for lethal! Sorry bro you lose
I was playing Neos hero when everybody else playing heros at my locals was running Omni hero.
I had the last laugh when I won in time with Neo Spacian Hummingbird 😎 people kept saying “this dude is Jaden Yuki holy crap” I was on top of the world and that was a moment where I was really satisfied that I picked the fun choice over the “technically optimal” choice
Yu!Gi!Oh! was created to have fun with friends and other duelist. Sometimes it's about saving your grandpa too.
I play by finding the rarest cards i can get my hands on and throwing them into the ocean
Do you by chance also lead people into forests to get an unfair advantage on unsuspecting opponents?
Weevilmaxxing
Doro! Monstah cardo! Must give you vietnam flashbacks my guy
Must be hard to sneak parasite paracides into other peoples decks now that everyone is double or triple sleeving
Instructions not clear. Normal summoned blue eyes white dragon.
Gigachads normal summon 3 blue eyes turn 1 because their hair is green
What's really tricky about Yugioh is that people often divide into "Casual vs. Meta"
But the reality is it's more like a spectrum. You can have decks or cards like Red Eyes Dragun that are not even slightly competetively viable, but absolutely stomp any casual room. Or archetypes that are "trash" which actually play perfectly fine, just not against the top power level. I talked on the discord about how the phrase: "Unplayable" gets overused.
That said, sometimes there really ARE decks that are just a mess. For example, against anything other than LIGHT monsters, Ally of Justice is almost completely useless. Not in a "Well meta stomps." sense, but in a: "You might as well play Vanilla monsters" sense.
I think this goes beyond even people who play competitively. You had a thread on Twitter a bit ago where you asked how you'd on-board new players, and the main response was don't. But one of the main angles people talked about with not getting into yugioh is that playing competitively sucks (this is really boiled down). Which I agree that the current meta isn't great (beyond fiendsmith and snake eyes, all the ftk shenanigans), but I feel there was this assumption throughout the entire community that you can only play yugioh competitively, so when competitive sucks, yugioh isn't worth playing, even to a new player.
And it's really odd because we all play. We're generally here because we play, and there is fun to be had. I can't explain enough how much fun I've recently had in Master Duel playing bad decks like Kozmo and pure Yang Zings in bronze, silver and gold. I'd argue that this space of non-tiered decks is almost always fun to play, as long as you play in the same relative deck strength.
PREACH BROTHER🔥🔥🔥
The issue is that space is only fun so long as competitive players don't know and interact with it also it's just the current meta it's the nature of the modern game at this point and the mentality of competitive players who don't and refuse to learn how to be chill
@michaelkeha I just disagree though. A beginner is only facing competitive players? Competitive meta is the only way for a new player to play? I'd say no. Newer players can start at any point in power really, and as long as they learn the game, they can get in as deep as they want.
There are indeed some barriers, you won't compete against top decks super well, and for master duel you can't make it to diamond with an underpowered deck (at least not without a good amount of skill and grinding). But you're a beginner then, that shouldn't be a worry.
If the person who gets you into the game is a competitive snake eyes player who stomps you in when you're playing your deck of completely random cards because you're just starting, I wouldn't call that a fault of the game but of your friend being a complete jerk.
Some play for fun, some play for victory. But everyone makes mistakes.
So everyone, play how you want to play.
Mistakes by definition are not something you should strive for. Not being perfect and making mistakes is an argument FOR having others help you improve instead of being stubborn and stuck in your ways of making bad plays
@@cooldes4593 don’t chastise people for making mistakes, that was the point of that part of my comment.
And yet here you are, commenting about how I wasn’t specific enough in my original comment. which is admittedly a mistake on my part, but 72 people were able to understand what I meant.
Additionally, why I touched on that. mistakes/misplays are not inherently the same as playing suboptimal with said suboptimal point being covered in the video. Thus I wanted to cover all the bases
@@Ked7 saying “dont chastise people for making mistakes” is really a nothing point. No one is advocating for making fun of people making honest mistakes.
The video is about not telling people how to play, which explicitly includes not always telling people to make the optimal plays or telling people the optimal deckbuilding.
I disagree with this, as ive stated. Feedback is a good thing because we arent perfect and make mistakes.
Advocating against feedback imo is a bad take.
Ill take your comment at its best case interpretation though and concede
I play in anticipation of receiving my invite to Duelist Kingdom.
3 That’s 10. 1 you’re finished in VSoul is a chef’s kiss
Paul clearly never topped in his playground.
This is in every single competitive level of pvp games. Trying anything that makes you curious or that seems niche is the best way to discover your style and what's strong FOR YOU in any game. Excellent discussion!
LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK‼️ In an attempt to do just this, I swapped out my Ash Blossoms for Ghost Ogres, as well as some of the "good" traps for "worse" dinomorphia traps. It changes how you approach duels and everything else you said. I feel like only having one format also forces people into only thinking about the most optimal way to play, which comes with its pros and cons
I prefer Pure decks too, I agree, but if I post a shitty, 3-hit combo in a guilty gear game, I expect someone to say "Not Optimal" or "You could do better". Same thing with Yugioh, some people want to help others, but don't know how else to show it. The point should be helping people learn how to help others improve in a way that doesn't come off as rude.
me in 2024 still playing my Dark Magician Girl deck, I just wanna vibe.
I just want to play my Cyberdark deck in peace. I think the cards are cool, which is 95% of the reason I picked three of that structure off of the shelf recently.
Same
I have a Cyberdark deck that has so much consistency it can't feasibly brick.
Then people always try to push me to run hand traps and I'm like "No".
There are a lot of HARDCORE Meta players that get mad that your not playing the top deck or playing what they are playing
Some people can't make the optimal plays, because the cards required to make those plays, are too expensive. So sometimes finding budget alternatives is necessary.
Jokingly:
So, what I’m hearing is that Paul wants people to stop criticizing his theme duels.
I mean I certainly wouldn't _mind_. 🫠
I put an yata garasu in my deck. Is it good, no, is it funny if it connects, yes, and I'm all for it.
Sometimes I run a kinka byo just to keep people on their toes. The old cards are sub optimal until they aren't, and flip a matchup.
I'm all for constructive criticism because I'm always looking to improve my game and my decks, but to straight up tell me not to run X deck or Y card is not the way to do it.
One of the most fun you'll ever have is if you play something you admit might be suboptimal but in that ONE game when it works out.
Like playing Sky Striker with Vector Blast, and your opponent summons an Avramax with IP as material and then you land that Vector Blast and win because of it.
The best way to duel imo is a dance between optimization, and your personality. I want my deck to feel like it's mine, not just a list that's 'the best'. I have a pet structure deck that is my go to deck in physical, and one of my 3 common picks in Master Duel. Machina's. It's probably not going to top the charts any day soon, but i kitted it Machine supports and think about how i can boost it up (Atm i got some ACE's that i will work into labbing).
I probably can find the most optimal and perfect build, and memorize the line to a strong victory using that build list, but i won't get the same sense of accomplishment as I would from one of my own crazy beta deck builds that only I would make and eliminate via wins and losses.
I'm in the process of building Branded Despia irl (Need some of the Cartesia support and Slifer).
Branded Despia Slifer is really fun to play even if it may not be "optimal" or "good", but it is imo the best way to play Slifer.
Yeah I memorized a kashtira combo to make a tomahawk negate board that wins most matchups if I can bait ash but man did it feel hackey. Now running a kashtira syncro deck that is a lot of fun. They always expect the xyz for ariseheart but if unicorn gets negated I just spam out psychic tuners and build a big board. They waste resources and end up scooping because it isn't typical kashtira meta play
“Why don’t you play x instead of that” that is my experience as an ice jade player lol
The more I play this game, the more I realize that Yugioh attracts the most annoying, socially inept people ever. I have to be blunt (and a bit dramatic) about this because it really sucks sitting down trying to play a game, only to have an arm chair general blab about how you should have played better (rubbing it in your face more if you lost). I wish more events had a better way of mitigating this issue (especially at the local level).
I see this on comments from other Yugituber's channel as well. God Smith of Chaos posted his Spright video few days ago and a couple commenters grilled him for a simple mistake any Spright player (new and old) could make
Telling someone how to play or responding with excessively harsh critique is how we push players away from this game.
/rant
Your not wrong.
Even back in 2006 people were already like this.
"Come back when you've collected 10,000 cards."
This is why I loved the Yugioh games when I was a kid. None of us knew anything about meta decks.
Let me play anti meta stun in peace
THIS. I was so mad that the auction series was getting so much hate because of how ruxin plays yugioh in cimoooos channel.
One of the things I enjoy the most is when you have that moment on enlighment when I play a new deck and things start making sense without being told how and when to play the cards. In short finding by myself how things work is one of the best parts of the game.
Everyone’s reason for playing differs. It’s a diverse community of players. Some are for competition. Some are for the race to being number one. Some are in it for casual play (me!). It’s not so much about what plays you did & didn’t make in a duel. It’s ideal to learn after the fact. Because the more you play, the more you learn inherently. It’s naturally in this game. You can always learn from others who have built their own. But everyone’s minds & strategies will always naturally differ. Some folks want to accomplish certain things in a match. Some want to play so optimally their chances of win percentage skyrocket. Either way, just recognize we all play for different reasons & as long as it’s for fun at the end of the day, ya just can’t hate on it!
Love the game your way!
But seriously, I recommend casual play at least occasionally!! Might take the edge off!
Good day, duelists!
This is actually a mood . Win or loose play your own way with the cards you like.
I absolutely love catching people off guard with weird wacky things. Like imagine your expecting to see the same five decks at your locals and then all of a sudden, Celtic Guardian control!??!?
I still remember when Heavy Storm first became legal after the first time it got banned, way back in like 2009 or 2010, and it caused a huge stir in the player base, causing many to either stop running traps entirely or go out of their way to find whatever counters to it they could. That's when I dusted off my Secret Rare Judgement of Anubis and threw it into my Watt deck. Sure it was niche and situational, but it was insanely satisfying to use, especially when I used it against my friend and used it to save my backrow and take out his Shooting Star Dragon. As you said, moments like that are the ones you remember forever.
It's funny when you ask someone why they're using card "A" and not "B", and they just can't explain why. Most people will give you an answer like "that's the card everyone who plays this deck uses". And if you make a suggestion for a change, everyone goes crazy. It's okay to copy decks from the internet, but at least understand why all of them are on the list. And why others aren't.
I think the optimal andys come from a place of frustration
Which I kinda understand. Even on my own video about Yugioh, I get people in the comments complaining so much about how the modern game sucks and their deck doesn’t do anything and how every single game they watch their opponent pop off for 20 minutes etc etc
And my response always is, if EVERY game you play, ends with your opponent solitaring and you not being able to do anything about it, the problems clearly with your deck building; not the game or the deck itself. (Sure, sometimes there’s nothing you can do, but it shouldn’t be happening consistently)
Low and behold; they’re playing like, 3 ash in their deck as the only point of interaction going 2nd, and wonder why their opponents always pop off. Then you gotta explain well yeah, A. If you’re only playing 3 copies of a card that interacts with your opponent, you’re rarely gonna see it, and when you DO, it’s only 1 point of interaction which is rarely enough in the modern game.
Then it goes into a whole topic of statistics and if you want to see at minimum 1 hand trap / board breaker / whatever interaction you got in your deck in your opening hand; you’ve gotta play 7 of them in a 40 card deck to maximise that consistency (I think I don’t remember the exact number lol)
So people who already play the game and already know this stuff get frustrated at people that don’t, cause the people that don’t get frustrated that they can’t play, not knowing it’s kinda their own fault but won’t change cause they really like X card and won’t cut un-optimal stuff.
TLDR, it’s all a big mess lol
But you’re right, let people play.
Forget about what everyone else is going and focus on your own deck building
Yugioh is about expression. Deckbuilding is a vital skill. These two facts combine to say that you shouldn't feel beholden to the meta and always have to be mindful of the fact that you can be facing a unique deck. Perfect play is only rewarding when you win. Expressive play is rewarding in and of itself.
You all are always so great. This mentality is what I love about Yu-gi-oh.
Generally, Weak Yugioh is still a fun aspect of Yugioh!!
Had this happen last week at locals. I know the guy meant well and I did end up asking him for advice unrelated to that, but it can be kind of annoying if the advice isn't asked for.
Crazy thing is when I play MD, I use decks/archetypes of all different types. But I usually try to play decks that don’t negate or just seem like a game of solitary. I put in random cards and combos and it’s always the people who have optimized decks that always have something weird to say. I remember going 11-2 in a private room with majespecter exodia and I 6-0’d this guy and he said I got lucky that I won with a gimmick and that my deck isn’t optimal and it’s horrendous. Yet they played an “optimal kashtira snake eyes” deck. Straight off a meta weekly list. Don’t be like that guy, miserable that they copied a top tier list yet couldn’t out perform a raccoon and a guy with 5 limbs trying to assemble themselves…
@2:00 that’s what I love about the “game”, the strategy. If everyone is running the bread and butter combo you know what’s going to happen. What makes the game fun is when you don’t know what’s going to happen and you have to react! That’s how original yugioh was
*Remember when we played Yugioh FOR FUN???*
Nowadays, most people just care about the most optimal... like, why???
Yes Paul, this is needed. Since INFO everyone acts like they're madolche geniuses.
Moral of the story folks, be a leader not a follower!
basically, chat stop chatting
I've had so many opportunities in several tcgs where a card (or cards) that had been discounted due to not holding up to a meta perform tremendously well in a deck I make because I'm focusing on a different idea/synergy.
I wish more players opened themselves up to trying things out for fun and to allow themselves that discovery (like you talked about)
This posted 9 hrs ago so this might get buried, but I’m the EXACT kind of player as you Paul!!!
Have you ever considered interviewing other archetype purists like yourself, such as The Archfiend Guy?
I’d LOVE to hear you two talk about why you are both purists, etc. 😍
Oof
I ran De-Spell instead of Twister back in early Duel Links. Popping Set enemy controllers won me so many games but my friend told me it was too risky.
On the pure deck topic, I always saw profiles and had people tell me that playing Wailing of the Unchained Souls was not optimal in the early days of Unchained. I always ran it as an extra started and a handy utility card in case I couldn’t use monster effects (it helped me a lot against the local Mystic Mines players). I now feel vindicated now that it’s caught up as a good pick nowadays.
Remember the fun as a kid of spreading your cards out on your bed or floor and trying to build a fun new deck? I would often break down decks I was having success with because I wanted the fun of building a new deck. At the end of the day outside of a tournament setting it's just a game, just have some fun.
When I saw the title in my feed I said to myself. Why aren't more people saying this?
Thank you Paul 👍
This goes with a lot of things, let beginners make mistakes and guide them there. Ask them questions on the decisions they make, and guide them to the answer, rather than just telling them a solution, it shows care where the latter can come off as hostile.
I've got a related story.
I was at my locals a few weeks ago, playing Memento. During game 2 of round 2, I sided in Dark Hole Dragon. It's not optimal in Memento, but it won me the match.
Point is, you don't have to homogenize your deck to enjoy it and win games.
People are just afraid of doing different things. This hive mentality is toxic.
I recently built my own version of White Forests away from the usual Centurion, Fiendsmith and Runick builds and opted for Melodious to decently good success so far.
To my surprise, Melodious and WF synergizes fairly well via the fact Melodious covers the weaknesses of WF (Droll, Shifter and the like) to an absolute tee. The Melodious scales Refrain and Couplet also allows you to continue your plays with the White Girls if they get Impermed. 70% win-loss ratio so far during testing.
People just gotta have a more open mind and allow more creative freedom in the game. A lot of people will be surprised to what can come up.
back in the Yugiboomer days, at least in my area, the people who had that optimization in mind were usually lumped in with the "Net-Deckers", the definition has changed over time, but back then it was people who built the top decks but had no idea how to actually play them (because there wasn't an effective way to see *how* they played or get much testing at the time), but would still trash talk or bully other players for not playing the optimized builds - even if they themselves lost with the deck they copied. The turns have tabled, as in the past it was seen as uncool to net-deck, and now you get sh!t on by people if you don't copy the champs' build card for card. It leaves little room for experimenting, outside of the champs themselves.
i’ve been waiting for some good Dark Magician support that can return a DM from banished (within archetype). Or a better retrain of DM that always counts as DM so maybe it can do more than just be vanilla. just SOMETHING to spice it up and give my boy some love.
@@Vanitas42 have you seen the shining sarcophagus DM? Maybe that could help in Some ways.
@@GiovanniColon-r6d sadly, it is a crappy DM card. it’s true power is only with the sarc. it works great with the theme of what shining sarc cards are and do…but not with the DM as an archetype.
points against the shining sarc DM:
it’s only DM while in the field. not the deck, hand, or GY. so can’t be searched by the usual means, and can’t be special summoned by Eternal Soul. and for use with making Dragoon…it’s an effect monster so unless you use red eyes as part of the fusion (and you really don’t want to even think of using more than one copy of red eyes, if at all). and at least with red eyes fusion, you can use the red eyes and DM from the deck…and the shiny sarc DM wouldn’t count since it isn’t DM in the deck. So for shining sarc…it’s likely fine. but for dedicated DM decks…it’s pretty bad.
I’m lovin big Ange instead 🎶
I totally agree with the total freedom that this game should allow you, my fav deck to play on master duel is melffys and tcg it’s lair of darkness x fang of critias because 1 i just love the cards and 2 it’s really interesting to catch people off guard and watch their brains wirr in the background and they try to figure out how to out mirror force dragon x lilith.
The game should allow this, it’s the point of having so many cards and is one of the reasons why i love it so much
One one hand, you're absolutely right, playing what is considered to be an optimal list may not align with the goals of the person playing the deck or the environment in which the deck is played. People should be encouraged to deviate from the beaten path and find new ways to both express themselves through deckbuilding and find counters to their own local meta.
On the other hand... There's only so much you can go off the beaten path before you fall off a cliff. If one of my friend complains how the game is garbage because he can't win... only for me to see that he's playing LSWARM+VENDREAD... telling him to drop the nonsense for something that at least conceptually makes sense isn't bad advice either.
I also use reinforce because it can help dodge hand traps and resets spell cards. And preventer’s quick effect to summon back a monster has come in clutch.
This reminds me of when I wanted to play Dogmatika Fire King. I looked for builds on a Facebook group, an there were so many people saying stuff like "This build sucks. Wait for the Snake-Eye cards." My thought was not everyone has, or wants to spend, that kind of money. Yeah, the Dogmatika build might not be as strong, but I liked the play style. More recently, with the HERO deck, I wanted to run Winged Kuriboh LV6 in the deck, but most people were saying how bad the card was. Those same people say how stale the deck is since there's never any innovation or new support. Well, we got a new card, but you're immediately writing it off as bad. Try it out and see. I personally like it, and think it comes in handy. If you're not the most competitive player, you don't need to play the most optimal deck. It's okay to try something different. In fact, experimental builds and decks can have success in tournaments. You really never know if you don't try it out.
Paul, taking life lessons into Yugioh. I love it.
Always be open to improvement, means you will always be improving. Great video!
My favorite part of siding in a locals is trying out a new tech option. Lately, I’ve added “De-Fusion” and “Silent Graveyard.” I’ve gone against a lot of Yubels and hitting them with De-Fusion, takes care of that worry (or hitting their Super Poly monster with De-Fusion, I can get MY monsters back on the field so it undoes Super Poly and they go Minus 2) and Silent Graveyard takes care of cards like Poplar, Promethean Princess and Flamberge. I play Kashtira so I don’t need my GY and it’s easier for me to play into a board by shutting off their GY effects before I ever start breaking their board.
Running de fusion is actually as hilarious as it is brilliant icl. Ima try that shit out of you don’t mind lol. I run a labrynth virus deck with lightforce sword in it and it hits like crack lmao.
@@marshalkagami the first time my friend and I started playing Duel Links together, I summoned my boss monster (fusion) and he activated De-Fusion on me and it totally threw me for a loop 😂 it’s such a great anti Super Poly answer if they wipe your board away, you can continue playing. And sure go for it. I’m always willing to share my latest gimmicks.
Healthy way of thinking Paul.
You are on the right side.
I've been thinking about playing a Monk Control deck. I discovered 2 years ago of a level 4 walking skill drain spellcaster that negates any effect monster your opponent owns when summoned in attack mode. So far I only found 4 level spell casters, of different elements, that are monk related. I actually wanted to make an actual cartoon deck that is fun to play that isn't Toon Monster related.
I know someone like this in my locals. He just spouts nonsense and expects every one to play like him or how the meta should be played. And when he does, my first response is to just tell him to stfu. I can care less what excuse he has or what explanation he’s giving, I want people to learn their own way rather than how every one else plays.
Reminds me of an Mtg Draft i had recently.
We were in Deck building and I offhand make a comment that the Lands i pulled don'r really support the colors I wanna play. So one of the other players asks if they could take a look at my card pool to help me figure it out. I say "sure" and they take a look at my pool... and then say "Why would you even want to play this color? You have like 2usable cards in here."
Honestly, felt like getting punched in the face. How dare I not play the most optimal cards possible in this "kitchen table" draft amongf friends?
It is genuinely one of my biggest peeves in this game to see people talk about decks or cards, especially ones they have never actually played, and say something like "you don't play this" or "this one doesn't do anything". There are some obvious cases where this can apply, like a modern hero deck probably isn't going to be playing avian, but in most cases it's a lot more subjective and dependent on the rest of the deck. Somehow people seem to have forgotten that most decks in this game are made to be modular with some level of toolboxing available. There is rarely a single correct way to play it, you have different options based on how you want to play a deck or what outcome you prioritize out of it. And like you mentioned with the rescue-ace example, the element of surprise from playing a card that is less popular is very real and can easily impact a game. And maybe people will play something suboptimally because their goal is to have fun doing something they want with a deck rather than making the end board as strong as possible or maximize the consistency of doing something.
Not to mention, this kind of mentality is something that CONSISTENTLY gets overturned with time. Even in the few years I've returned to the modern game, I have lost count of how many times either a deck was being played in a certain way and then somebody topping with a different way made people realize that there are actually different things you can do, OR an old format that was considered "solved" suddenly had a development that completely changed how people looked at a deck. And in most of these cases, all it took was a single person performing at an event to show how wrong the naysayers were. Simultaneous equation cannon recently got some time in the spotlight for its performance at an event, but before that nobody took it seriously and I'd be willing to bet money there were other people who wanted to play it beforehand but were told it's bad and won't ever resolve for them and got discouraged
Reinforce yes, monitor no. That card is useless, wait up I’m doing it ain’t I?
Trial and error, you just gotta keep trying. I like playing Traptrix in my Geargia deck. That just ended being hella fun.
ive been waiting for centur-ion for a while in MD, and when it released last month all i really saw on discord was people being so angry about how bad they felt the cards were it almost felt like genuine hate which felt really demotivating to even start pulling the pack i had been waiting for.
Thanks for tackling all the issues Paul...thanks bro looking out for the community always 😊
I just go off of instinct and I'll cut stuff that doesn't do as much. I used a 60 card skull servant grass deck with every once per turn gy effect I could put in as possible. People laughed at the decklist until necro gardna, alghoul mazera, and bacon saver along with titanocider and lost wind protected me. Then the next turn galaxy cyclone pops backrow and king goes in for lethal. Sometimes the meta isn't ready for constructive deck building.
I remember some dude wanted to make a modern blue eyes deck and posted a list he thought was good on reddit. He got bomarded with comments telling him to screw that archetype and offered 0 deck building advice.
I understand telling the person that the deck is bricky but atleast offer advice on the build itself. Sigh, so rude.
Yugi is the true deckmaster winning duels with all sorts of archetypes in the same deck and getting every card he needs every turn. Strive to be like Yugi :)
Just a passing thought: People in the community often coincide Optimal = Skilled.
I often hear these things:
1. "I have memorized 100+ Lines and Scenarios (That i copied off others) that can interact with my deck hence i am skilled because i put in the work in memorizing it".
2. "I have built the perfect deck RATIO that will give me 63% chance if i play 3 of this starter and 1 of this makes me more skilled"
3. "Konami we need more interactions so i can show off how good i am so i need new card that enables me to shutdown FTK Burn 1 turn my opponent and not letting them play by taking 30 minute turns I don't like you printing floodgates like mystic mine because i can't show off how good i am. Yet proceeds to floodgate FTK Burn the opponent by playing solitaire."
4. "Why are you playing Non-Meta? Are you poor?"
Just my opinion but these are exactly the statements and mindsets that led the game to its current game state. We are not all competitive players, most of us have jobs and just wanna play with random strangers in the community and maybe make some new friends.
Personally
I wouldn't have a problem with these statements if they were playing: Rogue, or Decks with histories of never being Tier 0, non meta in general and bringing them to Regional Events
Being told by YGO Scholars on how many cards of a certain type i should play, what decks i should play just make me gag and turn me away from the game.
I'd rather listen to the guy that plays a Kuriboh/Altergeist Variant and Destroys you 1 out 4 times because he found a strange/fun/quirky way to make you hit yourself with some creative combo.
that's how i know when Im learning new things and can probably improve upon the original deck idea he/she had.
If they are so good they can go lose in regionals to a more skilled clone of themselves and leave casuals in peace to have a good time.
It's more fun to play the most obscure of decks and see your opponent have no idea how to approach the matchup.
I do recommend to play or build a deck optimally. Not to stifle their creativity, but so that they learn the deck of what it wants to do. If you don't know how to play the deck then whatever experimenting you're doing isn't exactly going to help you whether or not you do see success.
If you have a strong understanding of the fundamentals of the deck, have fun and experiment.
I agree with this take people constantly bash my builds when they don't even comprehend them
I have come to the realization that, specifically for myself, the best way to experience Yugioh is through video games. The thing I enjoyed the most about the game was the variety I saw watching the Anime. It was so rare to ever see someone using the same deck as another character.
I've spent so much time playing Duel Links and I like thay there are around 100 different characters I can play against all using different decks. And this allows me the freedom to use whatever archetypes I want without having to listen to backseat duelist complaining about me not using a meta deck.
I think most of ygos problems would just disappear if people treated it like UNO. every friend group has its own set of arbitrary personalized rules that they follow cuz it makes the game the most fun for them. You wouldnt have much fun playing UNO or monopoly with strangers why would you think it would be any different with ygo ? and i think that we just need to fix our expectations that unless we set some ground rules, it will be a sacky min-maxy just gotta win environment. best example is how even in the "for fun" cups and events in MD people still do everything they can to drain the fun outta things. so we cant look to konami this has to be self policing with friends or people you know at locals.
I love my Scrap monsters☺
I love that a lot of people still don't know about ferret flames cuz' they find use for it but for dinomorphia players that card is goated and at least for me one of the most satisfying ways to clear a board specially for opponents making fun of me for having just 8 life points left lmao
Mastery is hard to obtain in Yu-Gi-Oh. I’m a fan of mastering an Archetype and growing with the metagame. For me Yu-Gi-Oh is about raising to the challenge or overwhelming a disempowered opponent.
Funny I wanted to put your page in the comments cause this is perfect topics for you .😅
I just got back from teaching a friend how to play, and as a joke I played a Muscle Medic stall deck and watched him get 47K ATK with Ra. Needless to say I faced the unmatched power of Sunny D. This is why you encourage just playing any archetype with newcomers because you get great moments like that
This kind of thing is always going to exist in some form or fashion and isn't exclusive to yugioh. Years ago when I used to go to locals and the odd event (11'-15' time) I used to roll cards like Dark Bribe from time to time, and kept a copy of Cursed Seal of The Forbidden Spell in my main deck, and 2 more handy in the sideboard. Folks used to give me grief over Dark Bribe saying "why would you run that cause it gives card advantage to the opponent." While that can be true, imo if that one card wins them the duel then the duel was already over. Folks like to trash the card but it's saved my bacon multiple times. Folks used to say "why would you use Cursed Seal since you have to waste 2 cards for something that may not work." One guy in particular hooked his gf at the time up with a Maleifc Deck which she did well with. She won some matches which inflated dude's ego a bit and hers too. Problem with the deck is it relied on Malefic World heavily. Losing 1 or even 2 copies of it wasn't usually an issue for the deck, but losing the 3rd meant game over. I got paired against her and was one of the 2 dragon guys at locals at the time. They both thought it would be an easy win since I didn't get a great start even with 6 cards going first (this was before 1st turn draw was removed), so I set a facedown monster, 3 backrow and passed. She goes to play a couple cards to set herself up, then goes to activate her field spell. I flip Cursed Seal over and pitch a spell card from hand. Rest of the duel lasted 2 more turns. They were both big mad. Didn't see them much after that. But folks at locals stopped giving me grief over keeping that card handy.
Yes!!! I always say this! Try to make the archetype the best you can purely!
Do i play exodia necross because its good? No. Does it get a ton of hype by everyone when it hits the field? Yes
And give people positive advice on their deck that may help it.
I like to play my decks pure because of lore. Also, it allows me to best understand the full potential of the deck.
reminds me of a time i played a guy who swore he knew everything and what to run and not run in decks. funny thing is is we played a dark world mirror match and I was using skill drain and I 2-0ed him and he still proceed to tell me how to play by stating to not play skill drain when using the deck. skill drain was the reason i won...
I hate when I play a deck and someone wants to give me advice for making it better and their solution is removing half of the archetypes monsters.
Why am I even playing the deck?
The Hive mind in this community is so bad. Someone says THIS is how to play a deck/what you should play & it becomes verbatim
So I play causal with friends, way more casual than a locals casual. I've asked a few times on reddit with help on some pure archtypes that are stupid. Being told don't even try it, or play it this way with only 2 cards of the archtype I wanna play really gets old. Everything is always so optimal. Im convinced people don't even have fun
Me personally, I just look up some budget friendly decklist on youtube or master duel meta of an archetype I wanna play, look to see if it's good enough to get me to platinum or diamond tier, then build it.
Heck, I did that with a Branded deck with a Predaplant engine and it seems like a lot of fun to play. It's half branded and half predaplants. I can't wait to test it.
A misplay is only a mistake if your opponent can punish you for it, by playing optimally you are predictable and easier to beat, sometimes playing right into a card made to counter that style of play or that deck. If everyone is thinking the same, someone is not thinking! "Grand horn of heaven" is over all a bad card, but! it can stop a summoning and end there main phase, forcing them into there battle phase before they are ready for it, often without controlling any monsters at all or at least none they are willing to attack with. Any card capable of ending the main phase should be explored. Also a long time ago in old school yugioh they where several cards I would play that no one else would and I would win due to those cards. Case in point "Non-aggressive area" and "Riryoku" both where over looked by everyone else, but quickly became signature cards of mine for I would put them in every deck I would build. Each person in our group had cards that only they used and we where all convinced ours was good and there was bad. One person though there was a code in the names of cards and just knew that if it had mirror in the name it was a good card. Any time Fairy's hand mirror resolved we where all impressed, but it rarely amounted to much.
5:05 Reinforce is so good idk why nobody runs it
I made a rather straightforward deck with White Magician/Princess Pikeru and Ebon Magician/Princess Curran as the, I guess, theme of the deck. Well I never really got to playtest it much as my play group is majority Magic focused so we don't really play Yu-Gi-Oh much.
Anywho, one day we were actually playing Yu-Gi-Oh when someone came up wanting to play a round but didn't have any decks so I let him use one of mine. He picked the Pikeru/Curran deck, played one hand and immediately went off about how much the deck sucked and how much my deckbuilding sucked and that he'd never use another of my decks ever again. I was just like "ok?"
1 copy per card except pick 2 cards that you can run at 3, or pick 3 cards that you can run at 2, banlist still applies - try this for fun
then people wont really talk about "optimal plays"
Just really started trying to get back in the game like last year. Really enjoying Tear Lightsworn on Master Duel. Hopefully I can convert most of it to TCG. I