TFS: 70 Year Old Welder - Will it TIG?
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2024
- Recently we picked up an old Smith 2518 AC Arc Welder that is about 70 years old or so. The question on everyone's mind is: Will it TIG? Let's find out in this episode.
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Wow this cool welder! Respect from Russia! I love to watch your videos
Making an AC welder DC is pretty easy:
for about $25 on amazon you can get a 200 amp bridge rectifier to make it DC.
However, even if that is technically DC, it's chopped up DC so we need to smooth it with capacitors.
For calculating the capacitor size to smooth out the resulting ripple use the formula C = (I*t)/V
V is acceptable voltage drop between voltage peaks.
(1 or 2 volts to be REALLY buttery smooth, realistically you could drop 8 volts and weld no problem-it would just act sorta like a 120hz pulse box)
I is current in amps, (200 amps max for that machine? I would go at least 50 amps higher just to be safe)
t is time between peaks in seconds (1/120 = .00833 seconds)
C is capacitance in farads (for the values above, 1V drop is 1.66 farads, 4V drop is .42 farads, 8V drop is .21 farads)
To make it even smoother WITHOUT a giant bank of expensive capacitors (although you still need some) , add inductance, which resists a change in current flow. Do this by wrapping the welding lead around a heavy piece of solid iron as many times as possible. (I know how to calculate inductor behavior with controlled "textbook perfect" curcuits, but welding with variable torch to material distances etc is anything but controlled, so I won't even pretend to know what I'm doing with this)
note: I haven't done this myself since both of my welders already are DC machines, but I have taken my physics classes in college so I know the concepts involved.
Get an "arc pig" HF starter and you prob could have a better time Tig welding with that thing.
How to make a paper flower
Oxyacetylene welding is becoming more obsolete. No one teaches it anymore. Cause Tig uses ⚡ to compensate for a faster weld . Both are great if not the oxyacetylene welding is better. . Ones opinion. Old school weld is oxyacetylene welding. Per day.
If that was made in 1940 and went for 200 dollars then, it would cost 3500 dollars today, with inflation
Thats cheap for a good welding machine. Or average.
4200 my man
But you'd also not have gotten as high of a wage back then. Wages increase with inflation as well.
So calculating that doesn't really make much sense.
@@jort93z Wages have stagnated while inflation keeps climbing.
Overtheroad but the welder depreciates in value
Those are great machines in my opinion.. My mentor had one and got to use it that thing welded all day long on 1/2" plate..
Great video enjoyed it
Cant get better than classic quality american production
I use one like it as my main stick welder. about same vintage ~late 60's to early 70's. AND I STILL HAVE THE ORIGINAL MAUAL, in a few pages about preheating cast iron it says to use "Asbestos paper" and firebricks to make a pre-heat oven lol. Forney CBBT-70
Dalek
WELD! WELD!
That is a crazy old machine! Very educational information though. I can't wait to see it restored!
3 years on and no updates on this machine... it's a cool thing to play with but not that useful in the long run and a few days later when the novelty wore off it probably ended hidden in a corner of the shop or back on Marketplace.
My dad had a 50 year old Craftsman stick welder. It actually had knobs on it . That welder looks much older. Never seen one like that before.
I was thinking it was older. It looks like maybe the as early as the 30's, maybe the 40's.
As soon as he started brushing, I thought about that wonderful taste of asbestos!
Soo good and good for you too! I put a little sprinkle on my toast every morning
My lungs felt dry just watching.
Looked like dead skin powder
I have one just like it. Use it all the time and love it. Works great.
Layers and layers of asbestos! This thing looks terrifying. Awesome video!
I am completely self-taught for the last 25 years. Other than what I've read and books and learned off of RUclips about welding and I never understood why you couldn't weld with a AC arc welder. Thank you. For putting it in layman's terms.
That is a very cool welder , I restored an old Craftsman AC welder from the 60's with same type of lug plugs on it . I actually had an old box of 7018 rod that was maybe 35 yr's old and fired it up , it actually worked pretty good , I am sure it wouldn't have passed any cut and etch tests but it didn't look bad .
This is great. I hope you go more for a maintenance rather than a restoration. Leaving the patina intact with all the signs of usage, which are testaments to it's history, will ensure it retain its charm. They are proof it's had a useful life instead of just sitting idle and protected in a cupboard.
I'd paint a floral motif on it
Dude ! THAT was sooo cool and brave .
You probably wouldn't know about the British sci fi called Dr.Who, but that machine looks exactly like a Dalek . It began in the early 60's and the artist/ designers of the show actually based thier design of the Dalek's look off of a welding machine .
If you have the time just Google dalek and you will understand 😉
Without the cord replacement it was definitely in "exterminate" mode too...
Dr. Who inspired things of entertainment and technology. (Marvel Comics Dr. Strange originate in 1963 and reminds me of him)
Explain Explain!
My dad had one of these growing up, first welder I ever used. I think it was great granddad's old farm welder
awesome video and just as awesome of a machine cant wait to see it restored back to its original glory
7:57 Grinder and paint will make you the welder you ain't, Great content. Loving it keep up the great work
By far the coolest arc welder ever made (that I have seen). Thanks for the proof of function.
I think everyone wants to see a HF box added or a arc pig,,,,,, next video,,,, sponsorship we dont care, as long as you can show us the schematics on it ^^
This is absolutely awesome! Please do make a video of it once you have it restored. 6011 on old AC welders is one of my favorite ways to weld, in fact it was how I learned.
look forward to the restoration of the old welder, love all your videos, but especially ones that involve an actual project
Well now that was fun!
I love some torch time on your old dinosaur machine.
My welding instructor showed us this video in class last night. Didnt expect to see it in my recomended. Great video!
I used one like that 30 years ago on the farm. Quietest welder I ever used.
Look forward to seeing that done up
Submitted for your approval an arc welder from another dimension used as a Tig welder. You have just found your self in the twilight zone.
Tiglight Zone?
Thanks Justin, That old Welder is Awesome. I am glad you are going to restore it. Cant wait for the videos on it. Cheers.
That's a quality machine. I like that you're keeping it original too!
That thing is cool as all get out.Cant wait to see it restored. The cool factor will be off the chart.
I have a machine just like that and I use it quite often. Great machine in my opinion.
So nice to hear that you are going to restore the great Art Deco style machine. Look forward to see it finished. Nice presentation and correct information on the grand old AC machine.
Love the vintage looks, keep it coming.
It looks like a Dalek...Run for your life if you hear a metallic voice growling, "EXTERMINATE!"
I hears the dalek was based on these old welders design! Pretty cool
I thought the same thing😂😂😂
Great video Justin. You've not only answered the question a lot of people ask; "If you use AC to tig weld aluminum, can I use a buzz box with a TIG torch on it?" You've also shown what would happen if you tried.
Nice big old welder though. Some of the guys in the shop I work in, say that they like the smoothness of the arc you get from a transformer.
Can't wait to see this welder once you fix it up.
Looks like something outta Lost In Space
Adam Smythe looks like a dalek
Danger Will Robinson Danger!
A bubble headed booby
I have one of these welders, and it also works well.
Have friend who collects old welders and they come in all different shapes . The crazy part they almost all work.Cool vid.
I really want to see you recondition that welder. Please make a series of it and bring it back to it's glory. Don't hesitate to ask for help from other You Tubers that specializes in reconditioning old machines because it could be the difference between and ok job and a quality recondition. Thanks for showing!
I can't wait to see this thing restored to better than factory fresh. I can totally see it with some of those 1920's paint schemes.
Sadly, it was all black with a chrome lid. I'm debating changing it up a bit to give it that appeal of the period. Maybe a chrome fascia to match the chrome top or something.
@@TheFabricatorSeries I was totally thinking of how this thing would look with one of the blues that was popular during that time with chrome trim.
Black n chrome is friggin fresh, it'll never go out of style. Original all the way in my humble opinion. Cool project. Be careful though, I bet that thing's chuck full of asbestos. The old cloth wire insulation, among other...
Since you're restoring it, as a fellow sailor, i really hope you crack out the never-dull on that badboy. Really get it shining.
I know full well the amazing effects of never dull haha. I'm sure it will find its place into this restoration.
Man I love that old Art Deco stuff. What a cool machine.
Add a 200 amp full wave bridge rectifier. I have the same welder. my first memory of it was when I was 5. Grandpa once told me it was 20 years older than me. puts it in the 30's
I got an old welder similar to this from the local dump and striped all the contacts off it. It was all aluminum wire so I kept the contacts and switches and took the aluminum wire back to the dump.
Hi, I have this exact same welder and have owned it for about 35 years. I think when I bought it I gave $60.00 for it at the time. I Love welding with it and it does like the 6011 rods.
Your ain't right... great stuff... funny, educational, and entertaining... You Rock!
I would love to see it restored! Can’t wait for the up coming vids, that’s for the content.
Try your 7018 on that machine, you might be surprised, some of the old buzz boxes run it very well although a little hard to start.
Can’t wait to see you restore this beauty!!
That's badass
That thing looks awesome! Can't wait to see you repair it!
Yea dude restoration is a great idea...it will look awsome
Cool. Just love some of that old stuff.
A couple hours of driving and i can see where this was made, cool!
cant wait to see this restored
I’d really love to see what this looks like restored. It looks really cool.
Do you still use it?
Very interesting video sir! You went to great lengths to get that Old AC welder to work. Its great for Stick really, Iv'e used one back in the day and it will run most 7018 quite nice. But here is a welding electrical AC fact...You must have a HIGH FREQUENCY Unit hooked into your welding leads. The AC TIG arc needs stabilization or it will go out.
That's the welder I grew up with ours was military surplus it was stenciled property of USN
The seller said it was WWll surplus?
But it never died sold at a farm auction in 1986 for 250$ paid 75$ same as you but it was a how lot of money then
That thing is SO cool!
A rectifier, if i remember right, will get u started on dc. There is a pretty good conversion vid floating around. I believe he said it was about 50 bucks for it.
It's fairly easy to make a high frequency box for that using points. When I used to work on older welders one of the service items was to remove and surface the points and then re-gap them using feeler gauges. It's literally just a spark gap instead of an oscillator like modern inverter drives use. The difference is that the spark gap is broadband frequency and inverter drive is very specific.
11 seconds in.... I love this guy already
My first aluminum tig machine was a miller thunderbolt with a HF251-d high freq box. Without remote amperage control you could only weld about two inches before you had to stop and let it cool...but it DID weld aluminum...contrary to the welding "expert" at my LWS that told me it would barely make a spark by the time I got it all hooked up.
Old machines are cool. Hope you have the time to get on bringing that there little mammerjammer back to life sooner rather than later.
I still have got a HF box I used on an 40 year old 275 amp squarewave machine with footpedal. It welded fine. I upgraded to a watercooled Lincoln 275 with all the fancy stuff and expected my welding to be better but I could pretty much do the same on both. The only benefit with the new machine was I didn't have to manually turn the gas and HF on and off and that water cooled torch was always cool.
Awesome video mate. Look at that thing!!! One slight correction though. It's not the High Frequency that's keeping it alive, its the fact that it's square wave out of an inverter welder, and not sine wave out of a transformer. Being square wave means that even though the polarity changes, there is still 100% potential difference across the work piece during the slope up and down.
Alternating Current = not steady enough for welding. Fun video!
That was cool, old stuff is neat when it works.
I just bought one from auction it's a starline arc you gotta plug in to your volts and all that shit like you did but I learned alot from your video just on how to my leads I appreciate it
I have a 1950 GE that i put a high freq unit on and it welds as good as a tig as some of the best linclons and millers that i make a living with for last 50 years
I made a TIG welder using a tombstone Lincoln buzbox. I made what you could call a series wound Tesla coil by taking about 12 turn of welding cable and coiling it up. I think that i bypassed it with an rf mica capacitor or something.
Then wrapped three turns of just regular wire around or next to it. Made a spark gap out of flat ended tig electrodes mounted in a couple of aluminum blocks. That with another capacitor and a small 5000 volt neon sign transformer made up the primary of a standard tesla coil and there was my hf stabilizer.
Then I took a wah wah pedal and swapped out the pot for the correct value. Ripped out all of the other circuitry (which was already smashed). I used a telephone cord and RJ11 jacks to connect it to a box. That controlled what is called a picket fence thyristor trigger box. I got a couple of big honkin' hockey puck thyristors that once were used to drive a diffusion furnace in the semiconductor process industry and hooked all of that up with a dryer plug and outlet so that I essentially had like a light dimmer but one that you could dim a dryer or an arc welder with.
I actually welded aluminum with it on 60hz sine wave. I also made another box with a big bridge rectifier circuit, some electrolytic caps and a big transformer winding. I made a π network but found that the output caps needed to be removed so I changed it to an L network with a choke output and then I had DC. Phun, phun, phun.
I was living in a box truck at the time in an equipment yard with all manner of unsavory characters. I should have tried to do a video about it but was struggling to pay the rent and keep the theives, tweakers, recyclers and landlords at bay.
I still have everything but the hf stabilizer unit and the buzz box. I found a Westinghouse stabilizer on eBay that has current sensing, gas and water solenoid valves.
I was forced to move back to Michigan. My dad has another Lincoln box. All I need now is another argon tank that is in spec and I'm back in business.
There are still enough interesting part to do a video about. I lost most of my materials and hardware. Making another hf stabilizer might be fun to make a video about but there are no surplus stores here in Michigan.
The one that I used to work at in silicon valley just went belly up. Radio Shack is gone. The Steve Wozniak, build it in your garage days are gone. I thought that I was going to get in on the ground floor in California, but no.
Id really like to discourage this mentality glorified by TV shows like storage wars and hoarders that make fun of people who collect thing, especially if they do things with their things.
Example, I made a sandblaster out of a dishwasher. There is this commercial for Apple i-something. Everything that you need is on the cloud. Possessions are a sign of poverty. There is a guy with his i-thing, a futon and some expensive toiletries.
I can build a laser from scratch. That is what I think of when I think "tech". But now "tech" means writing some fart app for your iPhone. I'm not saying that writing apps isn't useful but if this country loose the ability to, not build an iPhone but to have individuals with the skill set and materials to do stuff with your hands. That is a bad direction to be headed in.
/rant
Ahhh...a good old "telephone switchboard" welder. Haven't seen one of those in 20 years since I left my 1st job..😋
Awesome piece of equipment it would look great restored hope you make a video out of it.
Cool, followed 👍 I grew up welding on the family farm 👍 those old weld buzz boxes are sweet! Got a few myself.
What a cool old machine!
Those machines built America! It looks damm cool.
I have a Mid State Dip Pac 160 Mig Welder .. it also has AC Welder & DC & DC reversed Polarity .. It has a spot to put a High frequency Transfer box .. I was told it was a little light to use for TIG welding .. I also have a Miller 200 AMP MiG welder.. So I guess I just simply need to a straight TIG Welder.. I think they have actually gotten way more compact and way smaller ..
lol I thought I was the only one who finds ancient hunks of technology fascinating.. I would paint that sucker bright red and polish the lid like a rocket ship
a blast from the past!
I have modern machines, but my favorite is a late 70s ac only 230 amp stick machine i have. Sears craftsman. It throws a really good arc.
I love watching this channel. Wanted to see what you guys suggested for a basic welder for a beginner. Looking to use mainly in conjunction with blacksmithing, but also plan to make other things such as a rocket stove and other light-medium duty projects
I’ve got a 70 year old Chevy truck, built to last back then. Your welder or one like it was likely used to weld my truck together at the factory.
Appears to be an AO Smith welder R202 model. Looks like it could be a museum piece after restoration.
Love seeing these old machines in working order, I have an early 40's Marquette ac welder that runs so damn smooth
The dalek... Nice work mate 👍
I like it! My Grandpa used to have one, that ran 6013 and 7014 SO buttery smooth! And it was CONSISTENT! He burned up a 50 lb can of 6013 1/8" rods in about 6 hours one day, rebuilding a trailer, and the arc NEVER CHANGED, and he never shut it off. Only break it got was when he changed rods, or stopped for a cigarette. Unfortunately, it was stolen by dope heads that broke into his shop that scrapped the copper out of it for a quick high. We got it back, but by then it was only a shell.
I don’t watch restoration videos but for this I’d make an exception.
That is the coolest welder ever!! I love all your video content. I really appreciate all the time and energy you put into your videos. Keep up the great work!! I look forward to the next video!
my great grandfather had a welder just like this we called it r2d2 was told he bought it as WWII surplus
You could use AC7018, I like the Fourney ones and I think they run pretty good and burn in great
But I didnt have any when I ran this machine.
@@TheFabricatorSeries Oh, I didn't realize you said that in the video lol, and also thanks for the reply, most RUclipsrs aren't involved in their comment sections.
To see the puddle without the Arc was worth the experiment.
This machine was designed before "high frequency" was developed. On a more modern machine, there is a circuit in the machine that establishes a high frequency arc between the tungsten electrode and the grounded work piece. This provides a constant area of ionized shielding gas between the elctrode and the work piece. This gas ionization sets up a continuous path for the AC welding arc to follow back and forth. Without high frequency, the main arc doesn't have enough voltage to jump back and forth from electrode to ground and the arc will shut off with no warning. You can buy a separate h.f. box which can be added to the machine and make it suitable for AC tig work.
Dude, this thing welds about like I did with your Invertig during the afternoon part of your class when I got sleepy with a belly full of pizza (and a night of no sleep), hahaha. I'm ordering my Invertig this week by the way. I mentioned that I'd used it at your place. I'll be back for more classes on more advanced stuff once I get a chance to get the basics down that I learned from you during the last one.
Grew up learning how to weld on a 1950/60s a/c machine. Similar plug in board as this one.
Love your videos! I didn't think a scratch TIG setup would work very well on an AC machine to begin with I could be wrong 🤔
So cool!
YOU PICKED IT UP AT BULLHEAD CITY ARIZONA!? I LIVE THERE!!! THANKYA FOR HOME TOWN SHOUT OUT BROTHER🤘
Very cool. Hope you start the restoration soon. Lovely styling. I did not know that A.O. Smith, the water heater company, manufactured welders. A.O.Smith also had the contract to build the "birdcage" for the '63-'67 Corvettes.
Different Smith's I believe....
No, the water heater company built welders and body frames for the Corvette. One in the same.
I don't even weld yet I like watching this channel already, might have to try it in the future
Absolutely love all your videos. Thank you very much 🙏
Sweet rig, could easily add a rectifier circuit to make AC/DC
You had my attention at "If you ever wondered what would happen if r2-d2 hooked up with a vacuum cleaner in the Chrysler building"!