History of the Tocharian Languages
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- Опубликовано: 22 сен 2023
- History of the Tocharian Languages, Turfanian Tocharian , Kuchean Tocharian, Kroränian Tocharian
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Healing - Kevin MacLeod
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Tocharian is probably the most interesting branch of Indo European to me.
Anatolian too
don't call them Tocharians...
they are Kuchean, Agni, Arci people just call them Tarim mummies.
because original Tocharians are Indo Iranians, Tarim mummies are not
@@kasyakyoubfgamindikisborat
Tarim mummies is not IE
@@IsmailAlqirmi tarimmumis are indoeuropeans . They the one of second big indoeuropeans tribes in this area
@@kasyakyoubfgamindikisborat tocharians arent indoiranic. They tocharians a seperate branches of IE
The long-lost eastern cousin in the Indo-European family tree.
Is this language then releated to the altaic languages, when its closer to that region? I did not know he could find information of langauges that already died thousand years ago, when that would be very difficult. Ukraine where indo-european languages came from just seems so far away from this language.
@@jout738 Tbh, I haven't looked into Tocharian enough to be able to give an answer. I know it's Indo-European, and that in the Centum/Satem divide it surprisingly fits in the Cetum half, which includes branches on the geographically opposite side of the Indo-European area - Italic, Celtic, Germanic, Hellenic, etc.
As for any relation it might have to Altaic languages... well, Altaic is today mostly considered an outdated categorization, as similarities between the Turkic, Mongolic and Tungusic can be explained much better with contact/borrowing/Sprachbunds than with descent/common origin/families. Given it's geographical location, it's entirely possible that Tocharian might've had similar linguistic relations with pre-proto Turkic and steppe substrate languages, and later other groups too. But, at least as far as my knowledge of recorded history and extrapolation from it can garner, Sinitic and Iranic would've left a much bigger impact on Tocharian than groups like the Xiongnu, the Turkics or the (at least according to previous Costas Melas' videos, Indo-Aryan) Wusun
@@jout738no it's indo-european, also the altaic hypothesis has been debunked
@@MilesianPaul
Okay I just didnt see it that clearly where it came from. Seems like the most eastern Indo-european language, that then went to die out after altaic people attacked them.
@@jout738There is no altaic people? Its an old lingustic theory thats been phased out
It's really interesting to know that there was an Indo-European language branch in what is now China
That's why the found blonde mummies in Uyghurstan
@@zakaryloreto6526the Tarim mummies weren't Indo-European, stop being so Euro-centric, they were related to ANE, and were a remote population. Blonde hair appeared in Central Southern Siberia (approximately) that's why they had this kind of hair. They looked Asian but developped European-like looks because of the climate of the Tarim Bassin at the time.
There is still an indo-european language spoken in China. Tajik
@@kiyomiflash2513tajik isn't spoken in china, it's an incorrect exonym. majority of them speak sarikoli and a minority wakhi
@@zakaryloreto6526Blond hair exists in many people. Not too mention, most IE people weren't even blond.
The title "Yabghu" which passed from the Yuezhi Kushans to the later Turkic polities is probably the greatest linguistic heritage left by the Tocharians
😅
Yabghu is title pf Karluk people
Yea
Well they also loaned some words in Old Chinese, including the one for chariot, which then spread within the Sinosphere.
Bog means in slavic good. In old iranic bagga. They turk Titel bey or beg came from indoeuropean bog
Reuploaded due to the mistake in the timer
Tocharian, Scytian and Armenian. The turkish invadors attacked three precious brothers, some are eliminated. We indo-european speakers never forget this.
dude as a Indo-European i don't give a fuck about any group I am not related too. speak for yourself. No we. I don't care.
I am about the current me and my Germanic group. What happens to non Germanics doesn't concern me
@@noahtylerpritchett2682 Germen is not Indo-european. You are Germen language.
@@tanhukim9963 Genealogy of Germanic languages.
Germanic
Proto-Germanic Nordic Bronze age
Corded Ware Bell-Beaker synthesis
Yamnaya
Proto-indo-European.
Branches of Germanic. English (mine) Danish, Dutch, German, Swedish, Norwegian.
@@noahtylerpritchett2682wow, you're certainly fun to be around 😑
@@noelxlk nationalistically not caring about other nations interests isn't meant to be fun. It's meant to be indifferent, apathetic and neutral.
It's sad that these two (or three) languages ended up disappearing together with Anatolian, Phrygian and para-Celtic languages. RIP.
phyrgian and anatolian sadly bcs of greeks mostly
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775i hope that is not hating on greece
A suggestion, could you do one about the expansion and decline of Occitan and Catalan languages
Així ÈS, POSEU-HI LES "M'AGRADA". Jo volia ofrecer això, però aquest home es feu més veloç❤
It's interesting that Catalan is thriving and Occitan is fading.
@@polishhussarmapping258the difference between having a capital and a tradition as a state/crown, and not.
@@stefanodadamo6809 which one had and which one didn't??
@@diegoragot655 Català had them and is still going strong. Poor Occitan though, despite having been a major language of poetry...
perhaps it might help if the map was a bit more topographic to show the mountains surrounding the areas these groups are traveling around. i know these tocharians entered into dzungaria and the tarim basin which are surrounded by mountains with dzungaria being a big entry point
You're right. They really only moved through corridors, between Altai and Tienschan
The Indo-Europeans who never actually were in Europe nor India. Fascinating
Well maybe a bit in India but you get the point
that's why they got extinct, joking 😁😁
There are plenty who are not. Armenian, Kurdish, Iranian, Afghan, Pakistani, Tajik etc.
@@GrigRP armenian can be considered in Europe. The rest aren't even indo-european
pakistan is basically an extension of afghanistan and india, punjabis and sindhis are indians while pashtoons and balochs are afghans , so yes half of pakistan belongs to india and the other half to afghanistan@@GrigRP
@@bluemym1nd Armenia isn't in Europe, and the rest are Indo European. Where did you get your gypsy education?
Great work!
Thank you :)
I love the aesthetic of your work. The lines around the full color zone give nuances, and the music fit perfectly ❤.
How do you draw your maps? I really would like to know how you work, how you can achieve such art
Thank you. I use also the animation program blender
Interesting, I have never heard of this language family, and considering how young it died out, I am not surprised about missing that one entirely.
Still later than Anatolian (Hittite), Phrygian, and Phoenician. So it's likely to do with location too.
Thank you. Long I have wait on this vid of afanasijan language.
You're welcome :)
Thank. I was wait for this languages map history 👏
It's crazy to see that a languege often thought of as ancient languege only died off about when the first polish state was founded (966 ad) ! Aslo, magnificent video!❤
It seems that there was a Slavic state on the territory of Pomerania even earlier. The Polabian Slavs
@@user-ok9dc5qt8d yes, the actual poles were there much earlier but the state was made later
@@leonardo_fratila Yes, there were also tribes: Slenzans, Mazovians, Mazurs, Vislans,
Could you make videos about Japonic and other “Paleosiberian languages” ( Ainu and Nivkh )
Nice video.
Thank you
Friend, I have got idea for the next video!
No one have ever made video about map history of Getae!
Getae was a thracian group of tribes. They were one of the greatest warriors in the world and is sad that they are no famous and there is no video about them!
Tocharian A, B, C
Such creative names xD
They are also named after important Tocharian city-states:
- A is also known as Turfanian
- B is also known as Kuchean
- C is also known as Kroränian
(Although Tocharian C was never attested and we don't know if it actually existed. It is just an speculated language, which seems to have left some loanwords in certain Prakrit languages).
I love mapping videos with unique concepts thats what makes you and ollie some of my favorite mappers
Thank you
@@CostasMelas your welcome
Vaya regalo de cumpleaños. (En septiembre pasado cumplí 40). Había escuchado esta lengua antes. Para cuando desapareció esa lengua, mis ancestros muiscas ya habían llegado al Altiplano Cundiboyacense (Colombia).
Forgotten side of the Indo European languages
seeing the blank map at 4:04 almost made me tear up
How related are Tocharian languages to East Indo-European languages like to the Iranian languages or to the Armenian Language?
does the name " takhar " in modern day afghanistan come from Tocharians? even in the video there is a brief moment where after the kushan empire the language still stays in afghanistan specially in the region now known as Takhar province
Yes, for a period this region was called Tocharistan
@@CostasMelasExcept actual Tocharians from Bactria weren't the modern "Tocharians" as people now call the IE inhabitants of Tarim basin
@@andriusgimbutas3723The Bactrian Tocharians were the Yuezhi, who probably spoke Tocharian and/or Saka before switching to speaking Bactrian.
@@CostasMelas We call them Tohars now. And what were they called 2000 years ago? What was their self -designation? It's about the same as with Byzantium. The Byzantines themselves did not call themselves that. Modern Tokharistan has nothing to do with those Tokhars. Just like the Minoans in Crete. The Minoans are a made-up name.
Imagine in an alternate history tocharian survived and what in this timeline we call east turkestan is called tocharistan (probably not the actual name)
In Afghanistan there is a region called tochar which there people spoke tokharian at the time
Most people in the Tokharistan region actually used to speak Bactrian, an Eastern Iranian language.
The Tocharians seem to be very close to the Celts, but not so close to their neighbors, the Iranians.
One of the saddest language disappearances
✌️
Petition to bring these back
you can't do this boi.
@@kasyakyoubfgamindikisborat There is some vocabulary left from Tocharian A and B
@@Nastya_07 Traşşişi Maķne spantù...
Traşşişi Maķ Ñãs
@@Nastya_07
There is no one to speak them; Tocharian-speaking people were exterminated by the Chinese and Tibetans in the Middle Ages
@@IsmailAlqirmi We still have medieval Tocharian texts available.
So, any idea what language was native to the Tarim Basin before the arrival of Tocharian language? Could you share the sources on this migration?
See the book Siberia: A Cultural History - Haywood, Antohny and the sources I used in the video about IE languages
Turkic
Tarim mummies is not IE
Tarim mummies turkic ancestors
@@IsmailAlqirmiTarim mummies are Archaic North Eurasian people not Turkic.
Tocharien is indoeuropean
No other people have a difference hertaige like tarim mummis
They must be the tarim mummis
The pictures on walls are blond too.
Indoeuropeans in eastasia 😎
How do you still don't have the ✅ verification mark? You are either don't want to have it or underrated.
Proto Tocharians are from central Siberia? I am more supportive towards theory of big migration from europe to central Asia.
They are from ANE population
@@kasyakyoubfgamindikisborat
No, you are confusing Tocharians and Tarim mummies
@@IsmailAlqirmi Tocharians are indo European, Mummies are ANE
Is not tochariam one of indo-european languages?
It is
Yes indoeuropean 😎
They do be ringing tho
how did the language disappear? turkic migrations (uyghurs)?
Yes, it was the main cause
The Chinese exterminated them in the Middle Ages, some went to Afghanistan along with the Sakas and became Iranianized
Of the Tocharian languages, only A and B exist, the hypothesis of the existence of Tocharian C was discredited, it was apparently an Iranian language.
The Tocharians who descended from the Afanasyevskaya culture and emigrated to the Tarim Basin have no relation to the Tocharians from Bactria who founded the Kushan Empire, these Tocharians were known as the Yuezhi, scientists believe that they were of Iranian origin
Actually Original Yuezhis were most likely Tocharian. After they migrated to Bactria they were assimilated in to native Iranian culture of Bactrians & Scythians.
Kushans used word "Buca" for Buddha. Like Tocharians used "Macar" for mother & "Pacar" for father. Yuezhi confederation most likely contained not only Tocharians also Wusuns & Scythians (Sakas)
Anyway both Tocharians & Iranians belong to Indo European family.
What happend around the year 0?
Yuezhi people (part of them were the Tocharians) moved southern and established the Kushan Empire
Never uses negative expressions
What caused the decline and death of the Tocharian family?
Spreading of the Sino-Tibetans, Mongols and the Turks I think
@@cheriankalayil2362 Oh that makes sense. Seems that the Tocharians lived in present day Xinjiang which is now home to the Uighur (Turkic) and Han Chinese (Sino-Tibetan) and I heard that it used to be home to the Dzungars who were Mongolic.
Probably some new nations push them southwards. In that time the Indo-Iranian tribes and Samoyeds arrived from west. Maybe yenisei and turk tribes from the north also played a role in it, because I don"t believe that Turkic languages belong to any altaic language family. But the cause of the decline was the Turkic migrations, especially the Uygurs. Not because of sino-tibetians nor mongols.
@@fanstargateiloveuniverse It is the Chinese who caused the Tocharians to become extinct on a large scale. You can be sure of this. The Tang Dynasty entered the region here in 650 and killed many of them. It even advanced as far as Central Asia. In fact, the Turkification of Central Asia has always resulted from different ethnic races. Of course, those who stayed behind and converted to Islam have now become Turks.
@@fanstargateiloveuniverse
Eastern Turkestan, the homeland of the Turks, Tarim mummies are the ancestors of the Turks, and the Tocharians were their neighbors
Oh no…You made a mistake! Inscriptions show that Kushans spoke an East Iranian language, not Tocharian B!!!
Tocharians actually Iranic people...
originally Tarim mummies are Kuchean, Agnean and Arci people not Iranic
@@kasyakyoubfgamindikisborat
Tarim mummies is not IE
@@IsmailAlqirmi Tarim Mummies are ANE people
So what happened to them?
Assimilated by Modern Uyghurs
@@kasyakyoubfgamindikisborat
Brad wrote, the Uighurs are not relatives of the Tochars, perhaps the Khotanese have a little from them, but the Khotanese are mostly descendants of the Sakas, the rest of the Uighurs are Turks both in language and in origin
@@IsmailAlqirmi No when Turkic people assimilate Tocharians, Later this Turks assimilated by Uyghurs
Qarluqs came, conquered, assimilated and then exterminated them
@@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 Later this Karluk become Uyghur
Damn Turko-Mongol nomads, give me back the Tocharian Scythians.
I thought the Kushans being Tocharians theory was discredited nowadays
It was a confederation of tribes, mainly Sakas but also including Tocharians, so I noted it with stripes
sakas were also partially turkic as ik@@CostasMelas
@@CostasMelasstill overrepresented. The main bad thing of your channel
@@adnan_honest_jihadist5775 no they weren't
@@x-error404alphaepicfellsan9 proof? only turkic sources
P R O M O S M
But Northern India was conquered by other Tocharians who were Eastern Iranians (Yuezhi)
You are probably refer to the Kushanites. They were confederation of Saka and Tocharians
kurgan chads
pobres tocarios :(
🇦🇱 TOK *EARTH / LANDS
🇦🇱 ARIAN *GOLDD
TOK-ARIAN ARE ILLURIAN DARDANIAN HELLEN STOKS.
Because both Illyrians and Tocharians are Indo-European
And it is unlikely that the Tocharians called themselves "Tocharians"
delusional.
@@agalitev facts
albanian not trying to say the universe is albania (impossible)
As a Turk myself I see this video as absolute win
What do you mean
@@martinomasolo8833 why do you think their language died out ? Who replaced them actualy ?
@@yetkinbilgen3430absolute scumbag. Disgrace to humanity, you only know how to destroy, never build.
@@yetkinbilgen3430
Tarim mummies is turkic ancestors
The Tocharians lived next to the Turks
I really loves how the indo-europeans speakers aren't happy when indo-europeans languages went extinct by non indo-europeans
But when the indo-europeans speakers make the non indo-europeans speakers went extinct they just happy and never complain about it.
This is Turkic language
They are indo-europeans
@@scarymonster5541 did u asked them?
@@naberkanka2489 I ask you the same question
Oh wait you can't there aren't any time machines, *but* there is vocabulary from Tocharian A and B, which is similar to IE languages.
@@Nastya_07 dude their name is literally tocharian similar to turk
@@naberkanka2489 And? Similar names don't mean the same thing, for example, the reconstructed endonym of the Para-Mongolic Xianbei (*Serbi) and the modern country of Serbia.
Word for "mother" in Tocharian languages:
Proto-Tocharian: *mācer
Tocharian A: mācar
Tocharian B: mācer
The words seem to derive from PIE *méh₂tēr, which also gave us Mother in English and Madre in Spanish, and it has almost no similarity with Turkish "Anne" and Uzbek "Ona"
Relatives of Dagestanis
Tocharians were Indo-European
@@Nastya_07
According to genetics, relatives of Dagestanis
Не родственники
I think Tocharian language one ancestors of Turkic languages.
No they were their own unique Indo European language, However with the Turkic Uigur imigrations to modern day southeastern Turkestan, their language and culture fully assimilated within 2-3 centuries.
(Turkic W over indo eauropens in Central Asia as always)
@@yetkinbilgen3430Russian came for revenge😏
@@galgar5660 yeah, but difference between birthrates and imigration/emigration is taking revenge's revenge 🤓
@@yetkinbilgen3430 and then Russians came and central asian turk got subjugated by them
Please don't thinking with your stupid brain
Jesus Christ has been crucified and risen so you could repent and go to heaven
Let's Go! Now we need Chadic languages.