It is fascinating to really notice the evolution in tactics. People always talk about a manager's "philosophy" like it's a rigid system that the players all have to change in order to fit, then that philosophy will win. Though complete conjecture, I reckon that sometimes rigid approach to tactics is why clubs cycle through managers so quickly, like trying on different shoes: "this specific manager's tactics didn't work, this next one's didn't work, this next ones..." It's easy to forget philosophy is meant to be a loose idea that can/should adapt and evolve. Not tweaking everything every game to counter specific opponents, because that comes with the danger of a) things getting to confusing for the players and b) losing the psychological confidence that comes from the mentality of "we play football our way, they should be tweaking to prepare for us." But looking at the bigger picture for more over-arching problems with the way the team plays, and finding more long-term solutions to develop and improve. The flipside of course is that just giving a manager "more time" to build his team, doesn't necessarily mean he's evolving anything. Great managers do, other managers spend all their time in charge bullishly insisting their tactics "just work" and expecting things to go better simply when the players understand the tactics better. I dunno, I might be wrong, I just felt like rambling
@@colouredIncognito with the best managers, definitely. I suppose I was just wondering out loud if other managers come into trouble due to their philosophy instead becoming very rigid and fixed...then they bounce around a lot of clubs, only suceeding in the certain instances where their approach matches perfectly with the environment they are given
Next season, we are going to see the evolution continue, with Liverpool adding Fabio Carvalho to the team. He mostly played in the number 10 position for Fulham last season, and Liverpool are going to need more creativity from central areas to break down the low block that has impeded them many times over the last couple of season. Nunez is also an interesting addition. Can't wait to watch him getting onto the balls from TAA, Thiago, Elliott and Carvalho.
That cavalho is amazing.People aren't really focusing on him now because he's not a big name signing.But watching him burst through on goal from central areas and scoring is just fantastic. The way he moves and all that
@@Joh30gee no, at least not without a pure 6 behind him. not good enough to be one of two 8s. he had a pretty free role last year and stayed as an outlet pass out of possession.
I believe we're about to see another evolution in Klopp's tactics again. Liverpool might be moving back to a 4-2-3-1 with Darwin playing as a proper 9 with either Bobby or Fabio Carvalho in the 10 role. Fantastic video Jon
jota and Darwin rotating will just be lethal. firmino in the 10 makes sense but only if he is staying. with fabinio nailed on, i think Klopp has an overload of midfield options if he wants to implement a 4231. fab and hendo for the 6, Thiago and keita for the 8. that leaves ox, Jones, Elliott and Carvalho. until Jones gets a loan to play some regular football, i think it's still going to be a 433 with some tweaks
No chance klopp is shifting from 433, carvalho is a winger and firmino excels as a false 9 because he can attract defenders as a striker and drag them away leaving space for mane and salah, wouldnt work as a cam as nunez and him operate in different pos. . Also a big part in why klopp plays 433 is because its best suited for the high press as the mid 3 can overload numbers anywhere in midfield and win the ball back, it just wouldnt work as well if it were a double pivot as we have seen from teams like arsenal.
Can’t believe how far the team has progressed, I remember back when we had the likes of Milan jankovic, Paul konchesky to be being one of the best teams in the world is great
Excellent break down of how Liverpool are evolving. Funniest joke was when Hamann I think said Thiago slows down Liverpool's play thereby negatively affecting the attacking output. The problem Thiago had when he joined was a lack of a preseason, injuries and the decisions to play Fabinho and ultimately Hendo in defence. Terrible idea that. Annoys me when coaches think CB and DM are just positions anyone can fill in. Yes maybe for a game or two but not for most of the season. Thiago missed 2 batches of 5 league games each last season. Liverpool's record in those 10 games was 4W-5D-1L. That defeat against Leicester was the only league game failed to score and those results hurt Liverpool in the end. It's a shame Harvey got injured because I was fascinated to see his progression especially since I was very surprised to see him in central midfield. And he wasn't a light weight either. My question now is, has this evolution in Liverpool's midfield played a part in them signing Nunez? If you are going to be more creative in midfield, you might not always need a false 9.
Yes, someone who gets it! Thiago was dropped straight into a team that had no spine and had a new player in the 6 role almost every week, with Thiago himself being put there for some strange reason. Worth noting that Liverpool's season picked right back up when Fabinho was moved back to his natural role. Another factor was that teams simply sat back and let us spam endless crosses, knowing Firmino and Mane were very low on confidence on top of that. Truly a terrible winter.
Thiago is okay but Can't stay fit.Why are we always buying these injury prone mids.Thiago ,ox,Keita. And co .Even on the UCl final Thiago became injured and Klopp desperately wanted him to play and that decision want made until the last minute. So we lost that match.I believe we need a box to box that can chip in with goals,not all these players who are always injured and unreliable
@@stevendchu Tbh Klopp messed up that season. His first mistake was going into it with only 3 centre-halves knowing 2 of them in Matip and Gomez were very injury-prone. Then he compounded that mistake by not immediately playing Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams when we had no fit senior centre-halves. I understand why he did it, but by playing Fabinho and Hendo in defence we lost their steel, leadership and energy in midfield, so there was a knock-on effect throughout the team. A midfield 3 of Gini, Thiago and Jones just didn't cut it. Looking back, that was a horrible season.
That initial midfield of Hendo, Lallana and Gini at the beginning on 2016, I believe it was, was incredible. Nice breakdown guy! Thiago is such an amazing footballer to watch.
He's not mentioned here, but spare a thought for Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. I believe he was meant to be the long-term solution to the "midfield creativity" problem back in the summer of 2017 when he was signed for 35 mil. While not as dangerous with his shooting as Coutinho in the 8 role, he offered more physicality, directness and pressing. You got the feeling in the spring of 2018 that Klopp had done it again, and was going to turn him into another star. Unfortunately the knee injury really ruined his career, and even though he showed glimpses of his old form it's never been the same. It's cruel, but the best thing Ox can do for his career now is move to a mid-table club and at least get regular football again.
Man every season after that injury I thought maybe he'll be back. Maybe he'll be back. He was a machine prior to the match vs Roma. I hope he moves to a top club abroad so he gets to play in the champions league. But he's another player klopp could have taken to the top.
Yeah. That injury really ruined his career at Liverpool. He was developing quite well as a CM at the time. Then injury hits, he's out for a year and when he returned the team had moved on without him. The midfield had evolved into a powerhouse one with a monster in Fabinho at DM and 2 tireless, defensively responsible Box to Box CM's in Hendo and Gini with Milner rotated in from time to time. Ox simply wasn't as robust or defensively solid as the others and his attributes no longer suited our midfield. Since then it's been only patches of good form, a large amount of bench time, and falling even further down the pecking order due to more injuries and the arrivals of the likes of Keita and Thiago. So in the last 3 years Ox simply hasn't had the game time to kick-on and develop in the CM position. I was thinking it's high time he left, but I reckon there's a shout to keep him on as backup RW to Mo. It's his natural position, he did well there when Mo was at the AFCON, we're light in that position and he's homegrown.
@@stevendchu I don't think it's English players specifically, but the domestic market providing enough opportunities for a player without having to go to a foreign land where you don't know the environment nor speak the language.
Not a single mention of the higher back line over the last few seasons which has been instrumental in the midfield retaining more possession. The higher line condenses the space between the back four and the midfield and the midfield and attack. It limits the oppositions options in possession by keeping Liverpool's midfield on-top of their opponents, and reduces the out-ball options, which allows for much quicker and cleaner turnover from the midfield three. And thus the possession stats have gone up.
Really loving Jon's addition to the team beyond just being "workman Seb" - his analysis and presence in front of the camera and on the pod is great and the quality of vids recently has been ace! Top work Tifo! :)
Midfield is where us Liverpool fans are most worried about going into last season and now this one without reinforcements. Thiago and Fabinho are phenomenal and when needed Hendo does the job, Keita is so inconsistent he's an 8/10 one game and a 6/10 the next also hes injury prone. Harvey was so good at the beginning of the season but then got injured and couldn't really play much but hopefully he comes back and maybe Klopp wants to play Carvalho in midfield. We before January we struggled with Covid and injuries in midfield a lot and I believe that's why we lost points that and we needed a striker. Rumors are that Klopp might go for more of a 4-2-3-1 which we only play when we really want to change up a game.
Surprisingly, we didn't drop points in January especially after Salah and Mane goes to Afcon, think we drop 4 points if I'm not mistaken the draw against Chelsea and lost to Leicester which could have been at least a draw if Salah convert his penalty.
I can't believe Keita has survived this long. It's been 4 years now and he still hasn't cemented a first team spot. I know some of that is down to injury and not his fault, but the truth is he's too defensively naive, erratic and unreliable on the pitch. He cost 56m if I recall correctly so he was bought to be a first team regular. It hasn't worked out unfortunately and we need to move on. If Klopp has a flaw it's he's too loyal. It took him 3 years to realise Mignolet and Karius weren't going to cut it. He persisted with Moreno and Sturridge for 4 years. He's doing the same with Ox and Keita. If a player hasn't made a sustained positive impression after 2 years and circa 100 games then it's likely never going to happen.
I think I have liked the control structure that of having the rest of the mid push back and the triangle they form down the wing and would like for the new season to have it much stronger, also loved Elliott's revolution and position as a second team before his injury... I also recommend that Klopp tries to bring back the 2019/20 pass network-it looks much stronger knowing Liverpool's midfield, he can just ensure that there are more passes to the forwards and tactical passes in the back line
also another change is luis diaz he has added so much more creativity and something different from the left wing whike mane was mainly a inverted winger attacking the box and scoring goals, diaz take son defenders , puts in excellent crosses , helps in link up play and helps up open even more space for thiago and Robertson
Hey Joseph. Thanks for the kind words. I think we're already seeing that evolution with Salah pushing wider and Luis Diaz being a player who favours wide positions too. There are suggestions that Klopp could move to a 4231 with Firmino as a 10 but my sense based on the latter parts of this season (and I would have loved to have touched on this more in the video) is that Klopp is changing the press from being a 433 zonal to being more of a 451 press with the 8s pushing forward onto the opposition CBs and the wingers sitting deeper. I suspect this was to help protect the team in wide areas in defensive transition (particularly because the FBs like to push up as you know). I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this shift next season particularly after pre-season.
Hi @@jon_mackenzie, could you give me your thoughts on Liverpool playing possibly on a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-4-2 with the addition of Nunez and Origi's departure as well as the addition of Diaz and Salah's game change? Klopp would typically implement this when he needed goals or would be behind in the game by bringing on Origi.
The new boy is a good boy! Nice to see this articulated so well. Always baffled by certain outlets seeming to think we haven't changed or evolved over time.
That midfield trio consisting of Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum is so underrated in my opinion. These 3 players covered the entire pitch. I remember Henderson slotting into the RB position from time to time because TAA is so high up the pitch
Yeah. The powerhouse midfield that won us the league and CL. That midfield used to batter the opposition midfield into submission. Sheer relentlessness for 90 mins and the opponent would eventually break mentally, physically and spiritually. I don't think we've ever bettered that set-up in terms of overall effectiveness. Don't get me wrong, I love Thiago and the class he brings. But it seems to me since we've tried to make our midfield more technical and creative (even if it's only playing one creative player) we've suffered in terms of defensive solidity, we look too open and it negatively affects the balance of the team. Maybe we need to tweak the tactical set-up? As in tell Trent and Robbo to hang back a bit more and not be so offensive?
@@alexfzg9936 Yeah man. Rumours abound that we're moving to a 4-2-3-1. We have the personnel to pull it off and I don't think we'd need to bring anyone else in. We'd have Thiago and Fabinho to hold with Keita, Henderson and Milner as backup, with the likes of Jones, Elliott and Carvalho to be used in the 3 attacking positions behind the striker. If we stick with 4-3-3 however I think we need to bring another prime-age midfielder in. The mix isn't right in midfield, there are too many old, injury-prone and young players in there and not enough prime-age players in the 23-28 age bracket. Either way I think Klopp definitely expects Jones and Elliott to step up next season.
@@brianohalloran4059 If we do go to a 4-2-3-1. I expect Diaz and Salah to stay in wider positions more often and TAA/Robertson will Tuck into the space they left. Salah and TAA have been doing this since the beginning of last season
@@alexfzg9936 Yeah. And maybe with an extra attacker on the pitch we'll need to tweak the system. We'll have to have one of the fullbacks be a bit more conservative and not pile forward all the time, otherwise if the opponent counters we'd only have the two centre backs and the two holding mids to defend and I don't think that'd work too well for us. That's why I'm not 100% convinced Klopp will go to a 4-2-3-1. I don't think he wants to restrict Trent or Robbo, and also with 3 in midfield our counter-press covers more of the pitch.
Nice vid Jon really know ur stuff. Aha probably wont get to him, but just wanted to say it. And now the iteration of Mac playing wherever he can do his best work hopefully. Being in the 8, with Szoboszlai. Jones etc. in the mix. Endo, Bajcetic behind them competing for the 6 spot with hopefully an addition there. But nice to come back to this, these sort of videos Jon u r awesome with the tactics knowledge
Can you do part 2 on how Liverpool will play next season? With Nunez in and a midfield that is getting older, will Klopp play with just two midfielders? 4231 formation.
Excellent video. Don't think I agree with the reasoning behind that change though. To me, Klopp identified the need to exert more "control" on the midfield because the gap between his team and the rest of the league had never been bigger, also the willingness of mid/bottom table teams in the PL to just sit back, not as commom in Germany. Fortunately there are no Burnleys there. Not because Bundesliga sides can't break through the press and PL sides can. Standard gegenpressing is an excellent strat for an underdog, but not as good for the dominant team in the league.
Appreciate the fact this video was focusing on the midfield but in that last section I think it would have been worthwhile comparing the role of the defenders too as this looked like that had changed differently too - which may have had an impact on the role of the midfielders.
The break-up of the "front three" will be a challenge for Klopp. Can he rebuild his team time and again in the way SAF used to do for UTD consistently? I'm sure he can.
this is really interesting, thank you! it would be interesting to see the other half of this which is defense. what are the intricacies of oppositional strategies when facing Liverpool? how does Liverpools own defensive strategy work with this offensive- ie, on the pass map, would the weaker midfield positions show up as stronger when measured for possession and defense?
One thing that surprises me is that in central defence, the RCB position is significantly greener in the passing charts than van dijk. But van Dijk is the one making the long passes forward, usually. Probably a factor of Matip going further forward and thus getting more involved in okay not from a centre back position but from higher up the pitch?
Liverpool haven’t had a better attacking midfielder since Lallana in 16/17 he was brilliant that season it’s shame injuries happened as he could of player such a bigger role.
Can we see a similar video for Manchester City...i think Pep's evolution has also been awe-inspiring, that's the difference between these two managers and others in the league...any team that is stationary and not evolving has dropped out But these two keep trumping themselves.... PS.: Also on a side note...i have a hunch we might see a two striker formation from Pep this season...with KDB or Foden as the CAM...Haaland and Alvarez and selling options on the wing is a hint ? Maybe 👀
Liverpool have had to evolve, the two league games this season against City we didn't have Thiago or Keita and they played us off the park in the middle. Silva was running rings around Hendo and Milner.
The title has been won and lost in the games vs City, we haven't beat them in the league for 2 years and they've won back to back leagues, 2019 it was 98-97 after we lost at the etihad, if they wanna win the league they have to beat City
@@bertle26 the title was lost because Liverpool drew far too many games. The most devastating draws were against Chelsea and Brighton were they blew 2 goal leads. You should never drop points in games you are winning 2-0
Just discovered your channel. Love it! Well presented and all that data just makes my fingers itch. Unfortunately not available for somebody who is not with a professional club or sport agency.
Great vid.....my one concern with Harvey is that (from the eye) he appeared to drift wide when playing with Mo, which blocked TAA running lanes....i like Trent coming forward from wide (with a holding midfielder potentially covering, as Hendo used to) . I wonder if Harvey will eventually be given the chance to play the right side of a three strikers or right had side of a two behind Darwin?
Super interesting video! Only criticism is those pass network colours look way off compared to the info Jon is discussing - unless I’m going colourblind.
I find it interesting that the last data graphs shown clearly tells us that the striker provides the team with less value which makes sense when firmino was playing because of all the link up and other areas he contributes in. But looking at the 2020-21 season, the striker provides lesser value and less stronger connections with his attacking teammates. With Chelsea's' graph people always said that Chelsea do not get him the ball enough which is true but also shows that it does not mean he cannot be effective if the ball constantly does not go to him. Mane/Jota have thrived as a striker and makes a huge impact so really shows the lack of quality from Lukaku as well.
What I would add is that Keita was identified quite early in Klopp's tenure which suggests he always wanted that creativity in there. LFC aren't a city; klopp essentially had to operate within a budget meaning he needed to use the tools at his disposal rather than just buying
Also, I think any PL team has to pay that extra premium in transfer fees brining in new talents, so it's definately a high risk proposition all around. Everybody knows how profitable and cash rich they are relative to other major leagues in Europe where cash liquitity seems so nebulous.
Please do a video like this for city as well. How Guardiola’s adapted his way from a much more direct style of play with David Silva and Fernandinho in the midfield to a much more slow tempo controlled possession system. With Rodri, Bernardo and Gundo at the centre of it.
Can you guys make a video about Vincent Kompany's coaching? I don't watch the Belgian pro league so I know nothing about his style. It also seems weird that a disciple of Pep is going to Burnley. Seems rather contradictory that a tiki-taka player is coaching a team characterized with "put the ball in that end, keep it out of this end."
The only less valuable is the central forward if you see during the past few years. If we looked back again, Liverpool rarely use firmino as a pivot, and more like counter press machine which he is good at it. With Nunez coming, can CF position be greener than it used too? interesting, Klopp may already find all his puzzle.
I feel like the key to holding off Liverpool, is cancelling out Robo and Trent (while not easy but possible), forcing them to play through the middle. Obviously this would require the other team to have a sturdy and well coordinated midfield.
2:25 why is that situation a counterpress situation? Doesn't counterpress happen in transition phase? I saw that situation as a "trigger of Liverpool press" and not a "trigger of Liverpool counterpress"
They need 2 new world class midfielders in the mould of Bellingham, Veratti, Barella, Gavi, Tchouameni, Kimmich, Camavinga. Technically brilliant workhorses who aren't afraid to put a foot in. Not necessarily these players but players like this. The ideal choice I'd have is Bellingham and Gavi/Barella
I agree. Gavi is probably out of reach as Barcelona will certainly not be keen to sell unless an astronomical offer is made. Bellingham would be a fine primary target. Barella has got that all action and technical ability like Steven Gerrard, so he would fit. The scouting network needs to move to get central midfielders with these well rounded characteristics.
Thinking Barella may move if Liverpool can sell him on playing in the PL with significant financial incentive... but given how much they lowball even TAA or Robertson, doubt he'd want to leave Italy
Love the video. Just wish he would speak up more instead of the whisper like his mom is sleeping in the next room. Perhabs just his voi r for a part, but makes it harder to follow.
Outside of Thiago and Fabinho, Liverpools midfield is lacking. Everybody knows they want Bellingham but thats likely not to happen this window, so I wouldn’t mind Renato Sanches from Lille as cheaper option before AC Milan gets ahold of him. Then Bellingham next summer
Great video. As a Liverpool fan I often try recreate his tactics in Football Manager. I've often struggled with nailing down the roles of the midfield. Would you say the right centre mid operates more of a Mezzala or an Advanced playmaker?
I can't get over how much seb's accent has changed since he got glasses
😂😂
It's happened because he lives in Germany
😂😂😂
He also seems to be much taller
😂🤣
It is fascinating to really notice the evolution in tactics. People always talk about a manager's "philosophy" like it's a rigid system that the players all have to change in order to fit, then that philosophy will win. Though complete conjecture, I reckon that sometimes rigid approach to tactics is why clubs cycle through managers so quickly, like trying on different shoes: "this specific manager's tactics didn't work, this next one's didn't work, this next ones..."
It's easy to forget philosophy is meant to be a loose idea that can/should adapt and evolve. Not tweaking everything every game to counter specific opponents, because that comes with the danger of a) things getting to confusing for the players and b) losing the psychological confidence that comes from the mentality of "we play football our way, they should be tweaking to prepare for us." But looking at the bigger picture for more over-arching problems with the way the team plays, and finding more long-term solutions to develop and improve.
The flipside of course is that just giving a manager "more time" to build his team, doesn't necessarily mean he's evolving anything. Great managers do, other managers spend all their time in charge bullishly insisting their tactics "just work" and expecting things to go better simply when the players understand the tactics better.
I dunno, I might be wrong, I just felt like rambling
Never in a million years would i have thought I'd see you here. Love the videos
That's why it's a philosophy, with principles..
@@colouredIncognito with the best managers, definitely. I suppose I was just wondering out loud if other managers come into trouble due to their philosophy instead becoming very rigid and fixed...then they bounce around a lot of clubs, only suceeding in the certain instances where their approach matches perfectly with the environment they are given
@@sinfini5101 Ahaha well thankyou! I watch a lot of Tifo, I've always been a big Liverpool fan
The third part of your paragraph sums up Mikel Arteta’s project perfectly.
Next season, we are going to see the evolution continue, with Liverpool adding Fabio Carvalho to the team. He mostly played in the number 10 position for Fulham last season, and Liverpool are going to need more creativity from central areas to break down the low block that has impeded them many times over the last couple of season.
Nunez is also an interesting addition. Can't wait to watch him getting onto the balls from TAA, Thiago, Elliott and Carvalho.
That cavalho is amazing.People aren't really focusing on him now because he's not a big name signing.But watching him burst through on goal from central areas and scoring is just fantastic. The way he moves and all that
Does he have enough defensively to play as a #8?
@@Joh30gee Recovers possession a lot
@@Joh30gee no, at least not without a pure 6 behind him. not good enough to be one of two 8s. he had a pretty free role last year and stayed as an outlet pass out of possession.
@@user-kh1xr4wz3s Fabinho at 6 Thiago LCM defensive 8 and Carvalho offensive RCM?
One of my favourite tactics videos so far! Thanks Jon and the rest of the Tifo IRL team
The early Klopp Liverpool midfield has always been linked to Lallana for me. He was immense before that injury against Bayern in pre-season
He was a very good player at his best, but "immense" is generous. There have been 5 or 6 better Liverpool midfielders in the Klopp era.
I believe we're about to see another evolution in Klopp's tactics again. Liverpool might be moving back to a 4-2-3-1 with Darwin playing as a proper 9 with either Bobby or Fabio Carvalho in the 10 role. Fantastic video Jon
dont forget Elliot, remember how good he was prior to injury? 4231 is about to make a famous comeback throughout the PL
jota and Darwin rotating will just be lethal. firmino in the 10 makes sense but only if he is staying. with fabinio nailed on, i think Klopp has an overload of midfield options if he wants to implement a 4231. fab and hendo for the 6, Thiago and keita for the 8. that leaves ox, Jones, Elliott and Carvalho. until Jones gets a loan to play some regular football, i think it's still going to be a 433 with some tweaks
No chance klopp is shifting from 433, carvalho is a winger and firmino excels as a false 9 because he can attract defenders as a striker and drag them away leaving space for mane and salah, wouldnt work as a cam as nunez and him operate in different pos.
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Also a big part in why klopp plays 433 is because its best suited for the high press as the mid 3 can overload numbers anywhere in midfield and win the ball back, it just wouldnt work as well if it were a double pivot as we have seen from teams like arsenal.
@@dude99844 Actually one of the heaviest pressure teams was Bayern adopting a 4-2-3-1 and winning the CL.
@@dude99844 Carvalho definitely ain’t a winger mate
Jon has been a fabulous addition. I'm gonna miss Alex, but he is such a worthy replacement.
Why did alex leave tho? I missed that or something haha
@@gueswho8815 he's in Costa Rica conducting a study of the local wildlife. Not for money just because he felt like it.
@@gueswho8815 look at his twitter bio...
He is king
@@nipplehead Don't think the guy has ever had to worry about money, has he? Assuming Joe's quips about his background are based in truth, at least.
It's a credit to Tifo's talent scouting themselves that they lost a very skilled employee, and barely missed a step.
Can’t believe how far the team has progressed, I remember back when we had the likes of Milan jankovic, Paul konchesky to be being one of the best teams in the world is great
Jovanovic
and others like Veron or N'Gog.
Don't remind me of the Hodgson era, that was a brutal period haha. We've come a long way. Hopefully more great and success filled years are ahead
Can't say this enough. Too many fans get toxic when draw with Chelsea, 11 vs 10.
@@MrHakis We were unlucky but thats part of the game.
Excellent break down of how Liverpool are evolving. Funniest joke was when Hamann I think said Thiago slows down Liverpool's play thereby negatively affecting the attacking output. The problem Thiago had when he joined was a lack of a preseason, injuries and the decisions to play Fabinho and ultimately Hendo in defence. Terrible idea that. Annoys me when coaches think CB and DM are just positions anyone can fill in. Yes maybe for a game or two but not for most of the season. Thiago missed 2 batches of 5 league games each last season. Liverpool's record in those 10 games was 4W-5D-1L. That defeat against Leicester was the only league game failed to score and those results hurt Liverpool in the end.
It's a shame Harvey got injured because I was fascinated to see his progression especially since I was very surprised to see him in central midfield. And he wasn't a light weight either. My question now is, has this evolution in Liverpool's midfield played a part in them signing Nunez? If you are going to be more creative in midfield, you might not always need a false 9.
Yes, someone who gets it! Thiago was dropped straight into a team that had no spine and had a new player in the 6 role almost every week, with Thiago himself being put there for some strange reason. Worth noting that Liverpool's season picked right back up when Fabinho was moved back to his natural role.
Another factor was that teams simply sat back and let us spam endless crosses, knowing Firmino and Mane were very low on confidence on top of that. Truly a terrible winter.
Thiago is okay but Can't stay fit.Why are we always buying these injury prone mids.Thiago ,ox,Keita. And co
.Even on the UCl final Thiago became injured and Klopp desperately wanted him to play and that decision want made until the last minute. So we lost that match.I believe we need a box to box that can chip in with goals,not all these players who are always injured and unreliable
@@stevendchu Tbh Klopp messed up that season. His first mistake was going into it with only 3 centre-halves knowing 2 of them in Matip and Gomez were very injury-prone. Then he compounded that mistake by not immediately playing Nat Phillips and Rhys Williams when we had no fit senior centre-halves. I understand why he did it, but by playing Fabinho and Hendo in defence we lost their steel, leadership and energy in midfield, so there was a knock-on effect throughout the team. A midfield 3 of Gini, Thiago and Jones just didn't cut it. Looking back, that was a horrible season.
That initial midfield of Hendo, Lallana and Gini at the beginning on 2016, I believe it was, was incredible. Nice breakdown guy! Thiago is such an amazing footballer to watch.
He's not mentioned here, but spare a thought for Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain. I believe he was meant to be the long-term solution to the "midfield creativity" problem back in the summer of 2017 when he was signed for 35 mil. While not as dangerous with his shooting as Coutinho in the 8 role, he offered more physicality, directness and pressing. You got the feeling in the spring of 2018 that Klopp had done it again, and was going to turn him into another star. Unfortunately the knee injury really ruined his career, and even though he showed glimpses of his old form it's never been the same. It's cruel, but the best thing Ox can do for his career now is move to a mid-table club and at least get regular football again.
Man every season after that injury I thought maybe he'll be back. Maybe he'll be back. He was a machine prior to the match vs Roma.
I hope he moves to a top club abroad so he gets to play in the champions league. But he's another player klopp could have taken to the top.
i still remember the goal he scored against city . that long range effort . i was shouting out of my lungs , cheering . a top player 👌
Yeah. That injury really ruined his career at Liverpool. He was developing quite well as a CM at the time. Then injury hits, he's out for a year and when he returned the team had moved on without him. The midfield had evolved into a powerhouse one with a monster in Fabinho at DM and 2 tireless, defensively responsible Box to Box CM's in Hendo and Gini with Milner rotated in from time to time. Ox simply wasn't as robust or defensively solid as the others and his attributes no longer suited our midfield.
Since then it's been only patches of good form, a large amount of bench time, and falling even further down the pecking order due to more injuries and the arrivals of the likes of Keita and Thiago. So in the last 3 years Ox simply hasn't had the game time to kick-on and develop in the CM position. I was thinking it's high time he left, but I reckon there's a shout to keep him on as backup RW to Mo. It's his natural position, he did well there when Mo was at the AFCON, we're light in that position and he's homegrown.
@@chubs2312 Same 😢
I doubt he'll ever move abroad though. English players are weird like that, plus he does have a young child.
@@stevendchu I don't think it's English players specifically, but the domestic market providing enough opportunities for a player without having to go to a foreign land where you don't know the environment nor speak the language.
Not a single mention of the higher back line over the last few seasons which has been instrumental in the midfield retaining more possession. The higher line condenses the space between the back four and the midfield and the midfield and attack. It limits the oppositions options in possession by keeping Liverpool's midfield on-top of their opponents, and reduces the out-ball options, which allows for much quicker and cleaner turnover from the midfield three. And thus the possession stats have gone up.
Really loving Jon's addition to the team beyond just being "workman Seb" - his analysis and presence in front of the camera and on the pod is great and the quality of vids recently has been ace! Top work Tifo! :)
As a data analyst I love the vizzes and analysis. As a Liverpool fan I liked the spotlight on our undervalued midfield. Great work
Midfield is where us Liverpool fans are most worried about going into last season and now this one without reinforcements. Thiago and Fabinho are phenomenal and when needed Hendo does the job, Keita is so inconsistent he's an 8/10 one game and a 6/10 the next also hes injury prone. Harvey was so good at the beginning of the season but then got injured and couldn't really play much but hopefully he comes back and maybe Klopp wants to play Carvalho in midfield. We before January we struggled with Covid and injuries in midfield a lot and I believe that's why we lost points that and we needed a striker. Rumors are that Klopp might go for more of a 4-2-3-1 which we only play when we really want to change up a game.
Surprisingly, we didn't drop points in January especially after Salah and Mane goes to Afcon, think we drop 4 points if I'm not mistaken the draw against Chelsea and lost to Leicester which could have been at least a draw if Salah convert his penalty.
Maybe Firmino can provide midfield cover if necessary, now there are options for centre forward
Let's hope Curtis Jones plays to his potential. Harvey Elliot has a good run. And Carvhalo. If all these dots connect we could be okay
I can't believe Keita has survived this long. It's been 4 years now and he still hasn't cemented a first team spot. I know some of that is down to injury and not his fault, but the truth is he's too defensively naive, erratic and unreliable on the pitch. He cost 56m if I recall correctly so he was bought to be a first team regular. It hasn't worked out unfortunately and we need to move on. If Klopp has a flaw it's he's too loyal. It took him 3 years to realise Mignolet and Karius weren't going to cut it. He persisted with Moreno and Sturridge for 4 years. He's doing the same with Ox and Keita. If a player hasn't made a sustained positive impression after 2 years and circa 100 games then it's likely never going to happen.
Love how Klopp's old Mainz shirt is next to Maldini, Zidane and Ronaldo!
The way jon explains is simply great! Nice video.
I think I have liked the control structure that of having the rest of the mid push back and the triangle they form down the wing and would like for the new season to have it much stronger, also loved Elliott's revolution and position as a second team before his injury... I also recommend that Klopp tries to bring back the 2019/20 pass network-it looks much stronger knowing Liverpool's midfield, he can just ensure that there are more passes to the forwards and tactical passes in the back line
also another change is luis diaz he has added so much more creativity and something different from the left wing whike mane was mainly a inverted winger attacking the box and scoring goals, diaz take son defenders , puts in excellent crosses , helps in link up play and helps up open even more space for thiago and Robertson
Great video! Would love to hear what Jon thinks the addition of Luis Diaz and Darwin Nunez mean for Klopp's next tactical evolution.
Hey Joseph. Thanks for the kind words. I think we're already seeing that evolution with Salah pushing wider and Luis Diaz being a player who favours wide positions too. There are suggestions that Klopp could move to a 4231 with Firmino as a 10 but my sense based on the latter parts of this season (and I would have loved to have touched on this more in the video) is that Klopp is changing the press from being a 433 zonal to being more of a 451 press with the 8s pushing forward onto the opposition CBs and the wingers sitting deeper. I suspect this was to help protect the team in wide areas in defensive transition (particularly because the FBs like to push up as you know). I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this shift next season particularly after pre-season.
Hi @@jon_mackenzie, could you give me your thoughts on Liverpool playing possibly on a 4-4-1-1 or a 4-4-2 with the addition of Nunez and Origi's departure as well as the addition of Diaz and Salah's game change? Klopp would typically implement this when he needed goals or would be behind in the game by bringing on Origi.
The new boy is a good boy! Nice to see this articulated so well. Always baffled by certain outlets seeming to think we haven't changed or evolved over time.
Very nice summary of how Liverpool evolved tactically under Klopp. More from Jon, please!
That midfield trio consisting of Fabinho, Henderson and Wijnaldum is so underrated in my opinion. These 3 players covered the entire pitch. I remember Henderson slotting into the RB position from time to time because TAA is so high up the pitch
Yeah. The powerhouse midfield that won us the league and CL. That midfield used to batter the opposition midfield into submission. Sheer relentlessness for 90 mins and the opponent would eventually break mentally, physically and spiritually. I don't think we've ever bettered that set-up in terms of overall effectiveness.
Don't get me wrong, I love Thiago and the class he brings. But it seems to me since we've tried to make our midfield more technical and creative (even if it's only playing one creative player) we've suffered in terms of defensive solidity, we look too open and it negatively affects the balance of the team. Maybe we need to tweak the tactical set-up? As in tell Trent and Robbo to hang back a bit more and not be so offensive?
@@brianohalloran4059 It'll be interesting to see how klopp set up his team next season
@@alexfzg9936 Yeah man. Rumours abound that we're moving to a 4-2-3-1. We have the personnel to pull it off and I don't think we'd need to bring anyone else in. We'd have Thiago and Fabinho to hold with Keita, Henderson and Milner as backup, with the likes of Jones, Elliott and Carvalho to be used in the 3 attacking positions behind the striker. If we stick with 4-3-3 however I think we need to bring another prime-age midfielder in. The mix isn't right in midfield, there are too many old, injury-prone and young players in there and not enough prime-age players in the 23-28 age bracket. Either way I think Klopp definitely expects Jones and Elliott to step up next season.
@@brianohalloran4059 If we do go to a 4-2-3-1. I expect Diaz and Salah to stay in wider positions more often and TAA/Robertson will Tuck into the space they left.
Salah and TAA have been doing this since the beginning of last season
@@alexfzg9936 Yeah. And maybe with an extra attacker on the pitch we'll need to tweak the system. We'll have to have one of the fullbacks be a bit more conservative and not pile forward all the time, otherwise if the opponent counters we'd only have the two centre backs and the two holding mids to defend and I don't think that'd work too well for us. That's why I'm not 100% convinced Klopp will go to a 4-2-3-1. I don't think he wants to restrict Trent or Robbo, and also with 3 in midfield our counter-press covers more of the pitch.
Nice one John, enjoying your work so far
Nice vid Jon really know ur stuff. Aha probably wont get to him, but just wanted to say it. And now the iteration of Mac playing wherever he can do his best work hopefully. Being in the 8, with Szoboszlai. Jones etc. in the mix. Endo, Bajcetic behind them competing for the 6 spot with hopefully an addition there. But nice to come back to this, these sort of videos Jon u r awesome with the tactics knowledge
Great video Jon. I have really enjoyed your videos w/ Tifo IRL
Loved this! Top content as always. Can you guys please make this a regular thing? The evolution of how teams play.
Can you do part 2 on how Liverpool will play next season? With Nunez in and a midfield that is getting older, will Klopp play with just two midfielders? 4231 formation.
Excellent video. Don't think I agree with the reasoning behind that change though.
To me, Klopp identified the need to exert more "control" on the midfield because the gap between his team and the rest of the league had never been bigger, also the willingness of mid/bottom table teams in the PL to just sit back, not as commom in Germany. Fortunately there are no Burnleys there. Not because Bundesliga sides can't break through the press and PL sides can.
Standard gegenpressing is an excellent strat for an underdog, but not as good for the dominant team in the league.
Unclear?
Appreciate the fact this video was focusing on the midfield but in that last section I think it would have been worthwhile comparing the role of the defenders too as this looked like that had changed differently too - which may have had an impact on the role of the midfielders.
The break-up of the "front three" will be a challenge for Klopp. Can he rebuild his team time and again in the way SAF used to do for UTD consistently? I'm sure he can.
Actual facts. At last. Brilliant analysis dude.
This was brilliant. Cheers Jon!
Shouts to Klopp's right back kick being up on the wall with the legends
this is really interesting, thank you! it would be interesting to see the other half of this which is defense. what are the intricacies of oppositional strategies when facing Liverpool? how does Liverpools own defensive strategy work with this offensive- ie, on the pass map, would the weaker midfield positions show up as stronger when measured for possession and defense?
Awesome video, Jon is has been really impressing me lately
One thing that surprises me is that in central defence, the RCB position is significantly greener in the passing charts than van dijk. But van Dijk is the one making the long passes forward, usually. Probably a factor of Matip going further forward and thus getting more involved in okay not from a centre back position but from higher up the pitch?
These videos are amazing
Liverpool haven’t had a better attacking midfielder since Lallana in 16/17 he was brilliant that season it’s shame injuries happened as he could of player such a bigger role.
Fantastic video Jon!
Awesome analysis
Great stuff Jon thanks...
Nice new cam guys!
Lallana was a first choice midfielder in that first era. Milner was playing left back over a healthy Moreno.
Can we see a similar video for Manchester City...i think Pep's evolution has also been awe-inspiring, that's the difference between these two managers and others in the league...any team that is stationary and not evolving has dropped out But these two keep trumping themselves....
PS.: Also on a side note...i have a hunch we might see a two striker formation from Pep this season...with KDB or Foden as the CAM...Haaland and Alvarez and selling options on the wing is a hint ? Maybe 👀
would be interesting to see the next evolution of Liverpool's midfield and what pieces they'll acquire next.
Liverpool have had to evolve, the two league games this season against City we didn't have Thiago or Keita and they played us off the park in the middle. Silva was running rings around Hendo and Milner.
The title has been won and lost in the games vs City, we haven't beat them in the league for 2 years and they've won back to back leagues, 2019 it was 98-97 after we lost at the etihad, if they wanna win the league they have to beat City
@@bertle26 Not really, slow start was the major issue, didn't expect them to close that large points gap, but that gave City some room for error.
@@Mad_Intellect if they beat city once this season they would have won the league
@@bertle26 that argument holds no weight in competitive sports bro
@@bertle26 the title was lost because Liverpool drew far too many games. The most devastating draws were against Chelsea and Brighton were they blew 2 goal leads. You should never drop points in games you are winning 2-0
Just discovered your channel. Love it! Well presented and all that data just makes my fingers itch. Unfortunately not available for somebody who is not with a professional club or sport agency.
New here? Wait until you see the podcast videos when JJ is on 😂😂
oh the data is private?
Great vid.....my one concern with Harvey is that (from the eye) he appeared to drift wide when playing with Mo, which blocked TAA running lanes....i like Trent coming forward from wide (with a holding midfielder potentially covering, as Hendo used to) . I wonder if Harvey will eventually be given the chance to play the right side of a three strikers or right had side of a two behind Darwin?
Super interesting video! Only criticism is those pass network colours look way off compared to the info Jon is discussing - unless I’m going colourblind.
Brilliant stuff
Is that Bielsa? I want that shirt!
I find it interesting that the last data graphs shown clearly tells us that the striker provides the team with less value which makes sense when firmino was playing because of all the link up and other areas he contributes in. But looking at the 2020-21 season, the striker provides lesser value and less stronger connections with his attacking teammates. With Chelsea's' graph people always said that Chelsea do not get him the ball enough which is true but also shows that it does not mean he cannot be effective if the ball constantly does not go to him. Mane/Jota have thrived as a striker and makes a huge impact so really shows the lack of quality from Lukaku as well.
What I would add is that Keita was identified quite early in Klopp's tenure which suggests he always wanted that creativity in there. LFC aren't a city; klopp essentially had to operate within a budget meaning he needed to use the tools at his disposal rather than just buying
Also, I think any PL team has to pay that extra premium in transfer fees brining in new talents, so it's definately a high risk proposition all around. Everybody knows how profitable and cash rich they are relative to other major leagues in Europe where cash liquitity seems so nebulous.
Honestly wasn't a fan of seb for awhile but he keeps making videos on banger topics
Please do a video like this for city as well. How Guardiola’s adapted his way from a much more direct style of play with David Silva and Fernandinho in the midfield to a much more slow tempo controlled possession system. With Rodri, Bernardo and Gundo at the centre of it.
analyzing $hity’s evolution is easy = keep on adding billions of financial doping and boom 💥
This is extremely good.
Really impressed
Fantastic video lads!
Thanks tifo.
Can you guys make a video about Vincent Kompany's coaching? I don't watch the Belgian pro league so I know nothing about his style. It also seems weird that a disciple of Pep is going to Burnley. Seems rather contradictory that a tiki-taka player is coaching a team characterized with "put the ball in that end, keep it out of this end."
this is my favourite comments community 😭we have been consistently "Tifo humour" throughout the years, love you all😂🇿🇦❤
Love the bielsa shirt
The only less valuable is the central forward if you see during the past few years.
If we looked back again, Liverpool rarely use firmino as a pivot, and more like counter press machine which he is good at it.
With Nunez coming, can CF position be greener than it used too? interesting, Klopp may already find all his puzzle.
I’d genuinely subscribe to The Athletic just due to the quality of their infographics. Goddamn they’re hottt
excellent video
What a thumbnail! Jurgen and Chess.
I feel like the key to holding off Liverpool, is cancelling out Robo and Trent (while not easy but possible), forcing them to play through the middle. Obviously this would require the other team to have a sturdy and well coordinated midfield.
That'd why thiago and keita were signed. To break down teams nullifying the fb
2:25 why is that situation a counterpress situation? Doesn't counterpress happen in transition phase? I saw that situation as a "trigger of Liverpool press" and not a "trigger of Liverpool counterpress"
Jon really is brilliant isn’t he?
Where did you get a framed Jürgen Klopp Mainz kit?
They need 2 new world class midfielders in the mould of Bellingham, Veratti, Barella, Gavi, Tchouameni, Kimmich, Camavinga. Technically brilliant workhorses who aren't afraid to put a foot in. Not necessarily these players but players like this.
The ideal choice I'd have is Bellingham and Gavi/Barella
Barella not leaving Inter. Bellingham will be expensive.
I agree. Gavi is probably out of reach as Barcelona will certainly not be keen to sell unless an astronomical offer is made. Bellingham would be a fine primary target. Barella has got that all action and technical ability like Steven Gerrard, so he would fit. The scouting network needs to move to get central midfielders with these well rounded characteristics.
We are gonna regret not pushing for Camavinga for the next decade, boy can boss the midfield from that left side.
Thinking Barella may move if Liverpool can sell him on playing in the PL with significant financial incentive... but given how much they lowball even TAA or Robertson, doubt he'd want to leave Italy
Love the video. Just wish he would speak up more instead of the whisper like his mom is sleeping in the next room. Perhabs just his voi r for a part, but makes it harder to follow.
It's crazy how football tactics have evolved from 1920 to 2021.
Nice 🙂
0:08 Thiago looks like Gini
The music combined with his belly is unsettling
Can you do one on Conte? I feel his system is rigidly staying the same but I might be wrong on that one...
I always thought Liverpool played 2 5 3.
- signs one of the best midfielders in the world
- midfield actively gets worse
ah yes klopp the grandmaster
WHERE DID YOU GET THAT SHIRT
He changed his tone. Any one else notice ?
Aouar to Liverpool isn’t a bad move
I'm still getting mixed up between Jon Mackenzie and James McNicholas. Can they wear name badges? Or are they the same person?
NICE
How come LFC were a mid-table side
Nice indoor plants
Outside of Thiago and Fabinho, Liverpools midfield is lacking. Everybody knows they want Bellingham but thats likely not to happen this window, so I wouldn’t mind Renato Sanches from Lille as cheaper option before AC Milan gets ahold of him. Then Bellingham next summer
This video is very…. functional 😝
Carvalho would probably be Elliot but on the left side
Tifo IRL Editor just found out how to pick 4K resolution for videos now. 😅
Meanwhile at United. Ball => Ronaldo
I feel like plucking him up and setting him on my car's dashboard.
Nice video but the music is a bit of a distraction to what you are saying .
We all know klopp teeth isn’t as shiny as they look in the thumbnail
Great video. As a Liverpool fan I often try recreate his tactics in Football Manager. I've often struggled with nailing down the roles of the midfield. Would you say the right centre mid operates more of a Mezzala or an Advanced playmaker?
I guess mezzala on support with trent as a complete wing back
evolution to finish a point behind
The gentleman sounds a bit like Tyson Fury!
Functional is doing Henderson a favour. He's been poor for years now and holds the team back.