And having your eyepatch SCREWED into your face is soo BADASS! I still would have made Khan #1 because his lasting influence, but I agree about Star Trek Six...thanks for giving it the respect it deserves. And it came out just as the Cold War was ending so the plot was very timely.
I assume Sybok's motivation was a particularly interesting LSD trip. Afterward, he fixed up the old shuttlecraft he had been living in behind the Sarek house and went searching for God, "Roadtrip, dude!"
I think Whale-Probe was more of an anti-hero than a villain. Sure we might disagree with the tactics but assuming it had a heart, that heart was in the right place, looking out for its friends.
I really enjoyed your analysis of Nero, I’ve never really been able to articulate why I love him so much, other than “Hi Christopher, I’m Nero.” being one of my favorite Star Trek quotes of all time. Your points on his character were so... on point!
"Hello Christopher, I'm Nero," is such a great scene. I was hoping you would hit upon that and you did! The biggest flaw with Nero is that his character development was left to supplemental material. If they built more of that into the movie, I think he'd be higher on the list. Krug*e* hits the right note for me due to his first scene. I love the interaction with him and the female Klingon as he realizes she's seen the video on Genesis and she realizes that means her death. The scene is so great as it is a horrible thing in our mind to kill her and the innocent crew, but the understanding between the two Klingons that this *has* to happen in both of their estimations.
I agree 100% with your #1 pick. Khan is great, but General Chang is so much more layered and coolly charismatic. I love it when the hero and villain have a formal dinner at some point int he movie, sparring over dinner conversation (Kirk and Khan had a great such scene in the episode "Space Seed").
Since what happened to him mostly predates Nero’s temporal incursion, I’d love to see a Prime Timeline Krall one day. Maybe as the villain of an arc in a 25th century series continuing the forward momentum of the franchise from Voyager and Picard
Some nitpicks Chang was a General, Ru'afo is pronounced Roo'arfo, Kruge is spelled with an e My list 1. Chang 2. Krall 3. Khan 4. Marcus 5. Shinzon 6. Borg Queen 7. Kruge 8. Nero 9. Sybok 10. Ru'afo 11. Soran 12. V'ger 13. Probe
I honestly don’t consider The Probe as a villain. In the novelization, this made clear that They just want to meet Earth’s whales to hear about “their stories”
I'm glad that you rate Chang so highly he's my favourite villain as well. Although his quoting of Shakespeare did get a little out of hand towards the end. Though you could say that he was a bit like Grand Admiral Thrawn, studying the art and literature of other races in a want to better understand them and their ways of combat. Regardless, great video.
I always thought they gave him the wrong final quote. Instead of "to be or not to be" they should have had him say "to sleep, perchance to dream". The Hamlet quote is so commonplace, it's a bit cliched.
Yeah i really did love that "lack of charisma" with Nero. Maybe it was just that contrast that raise him a bit higher on the list for me, i mean just look at all the people on this list you went "their actor's charisma made the character". That and you really have to be trying to screw up "revenge" as an character's motivation.
Yeah, the fact that he was a grunt that just happened to be in control with an axe to grind (remiiiiiiiind you of anyone?) was a really fresh take on ST’s establishment of highly intelligent, charismatic villains.
I wonder if Krug being so intelligent, conniving, and generally Un-Klingon, is another holdover from earlier drafts of Search For Spock where the villains were Romulans, along with how Klingons wound up with their own birds of prey moving forward.
Oh hell yeah! Undiscovered Country doesn't get the respect it deserves. It is everything great about Star Trek in one movie. And I'll take any chance to see David Warner being more than whatever it was they wasted him on in Final Frontier. I love that entire dinner scene.
Given how long Klingons live (TOS ones were popping up all over DS9), I see no reason he cannot be in SNW. maybe Pike is responsible for the loss of the eye and Chang has a lingering underlying loathing and respect for the Enterprise. You can see the glee in his eye when he has the Enterprise in his sights and the resignation when he knew that the Enterprise was going to be integral in his death. Yes CBS, please put that in so we can watch movie again with even more subtleties.
I'm for it, providing SNW doesn't fall into the star trek wars trope that I'm so bored with. I don't want to see pike fighting the klingons for a whole damn season. Let's explore please.
Interesting perspective! While we may not agree about specific placement, a key takeaway from this ranking is that there is ZERO correlation between quality of villain and quality of movie. I wish people would stop saying “the key to a great movie is a great antagonist” or “what makes the movies better is a really great villain.” You prove this so wrong. Thank you!
I go chang, borg queen then khan. I agree with you on two big points, I love enterprise, carbon creek is one of my top7 favorite episodes. And ST6 is likely my favorite movie as well. That or first contact.
Ok, ok... I love Chang too. Undiscovered Country was the first Trek I saw in theaters and I still quote Chang to this day... which is actually quoting Shakespeare. I'd put Khan and General Chang on the same level. "Don't wait for the translation! Answer me now!"
i always thought that Khan was indirectly perceived as extra hardcore because so many people (at the time the film was released) knew Montalban well from Fantasy Island, a show in which he's a charming, personable, smiley, and mysteriously magical character in his all-white suit in paradise. I grew up with him as Mr.Roarke, and Kahn being the doppleganger. I also wondered if Don Karnage, villian from Disney's Tailspin was based on Khan. or maybe the accent was simply familiar.
I had not been able to articulate it before, but you hit why Chang is such a great and unique Klingon villain right on the head! The Undiscovered Country is criminally underrated in most lists!
That was an interesting list Jessie. Personally? Would've listed both the whale probe and V'ger on another list. In The Voyage Home, the probe was presented as a non sentient device on a specific mission. With Spock expressing that the probe's intention wasn't hostile. Therefore I don't see that probe as having the emotional subtext, intent or motivation a villain would have. As for V'Ger, it was a very advanced abstraction of an Earth probe seeking sentience, but not fully achieving it until joining with Decker. Therefore, but it in the same category as the whale probe. Other than than, not a bad last. And personally, don't care where Khan and General Chang are on this list. They are my top Star Trek movie villains either way too.
I like the Borg idea of colective when they first appear. There are no individuals, there are only parts. The ship is a square!!!!! Actually ships don't need to be aerodinamic in deep space because... no air, duh! But we need the shapes to "see" velocity. And there come the Borg in a square ship and they are on your heels. But there isn't even a face to fear. Complete losse of individuality. Scary thought. I think I was a little disappointed when later there is a Mother, a Queen to the beehive. But I understand the need to give it a face and a voice if the Borg were going to show up more and be more relevant. And the insect Queen analogy is of course the best way to go. The Mother looks so cool, too. Sexy and scary and motherly. Oh, like how you said the villain was not Khan in the recent movie. Also in the original one, he was somewhat a victim. There are always, even in history, these almost faceless characters that do so much damage and start chain reactions and get away with it. Those are the big villains.
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?"... I love General Chang, a very interesting and unconventional choice so to speak. 👍👍👍
A very nice list, thanks! I've only seen "Undiscovered Country" once, so on that basis, I put Khan as number one (and I adore Montalban). Also, I'm glad to know I'm not apparently the only one who isn't all that fond of Klingons. I also find them one-note, though the actors who play them are usually wonderful and do wonders with them. Personally, I prefer the Romulans. It's a similar reason I can live without Dalleks, although Davros is great concept and a great character.
Chang was absolutely great. And he was real fun in his Klingon Academy appearances, which were set a little bit before Undiscovered Country as a lead-up to it.
A good list. I have grown more indifferent to the Star Trek movies over the years because since the TOS movies we have gotten so much in terms of series and the 2 new trek shows discovery and Picard have the feel of a movie. Although the movies are far more important for the Kelvin timeline. I think that Trek has been blessed with so many high caliber actors to play the villains. What is so shocking is that I did not realize that there has only been 1 major female villain in the movie franchise. I have grown to the view that I like villains and heroes where there is some layers of gray. I kind of want the heroes to make difficult choices (I think of Archer and the Xindi war) In many ways that is what makes Krall more interesting. I hope that we get more villains that are more tragic in nature where you don’t necessarily root for them but you can understand there predicament.
@19:23 It would serve to function the continuity of the show that the Queen may have been an adaptation by the Borg in order to assimilate individualistic humanity. She only posits that she was there during Picard’s assimilation as Locutus but may have been adapted from the moment of their introduction by Q or whenever. That being said, I think Q is Star Trek’s greatest villain because even though there is a relationship there in the series, he does serve as an omnipotent, if playful, antagonist.
I absolutely agree on Khan and Chang. Christopher Plummer was such an absolute success as the general. I think Martok in his best moments would sometimes channel him, sadly not enough.
Khan will always be my #1, because STII was the first Trek I remember seeing and recognizing as Trek. My dad was watching it on cable when I was like 9--10 years old, and I came in partway through, not knowing anything about it, and was immediately hooked. That was all I knew about Star Trek until I was 13 or so, when a friend introduced me to TNG. Having seen a lot more Trek now, I can understand why Chang is so high up (he'd be #2 on my list), but Khan left an impact on me the same way Darth Vader had done when I was 4-5. Ironically, I didn't get to see "Space Seed" until I was in my 30s. Seeing young Khan, knowing what would become of him, was so cool!
I love Nero, especially with what I know of the supplemental material and deleted scenes. He managed to steal Borg technology being researched by Romulans to upgrade his ship, get to the past, then survive and escape Klingon prison all before the movie starts in earnest. He's very much a villain who is a hero of his own story.
Mad respect to having Chang as #1. That whole trial sequence is one of my favorite Trek moments and I'd go as far to say my favorite Christopher Plummer role. Related to that, Undiscovered Country is probably my favorite iteration of the Klingons. They're still warriors with a rich culture, but not...over the top. The way they are in TNG, DS9, and VOY never clicked for me because they reminded me too much of stereotypical, romanticised Vikings. I know it's probably not true, but I have a feeling Martok was trying to evoke Chang a bit because he's relatively more composed and dignified than the other main Klingons.
There's no way Khan will even not be the number one Star Trek movie villain. And that's OK. :D I don't think of the Probe as a villain, and I like it because it's a pretty neat concept. Totally agreed about Shinzon. Ugh.
Interesting that Jessie's top gripe with Klingons are that they can be so one dimensional and yet her favorite Trek Movie villain is a multi-faceted Klingon named Chang. The difference with Chang is that he was directed by a non star trek fan director: Nicholas Meyer.
Even though The Probe and V’ger are basically redesigns of the same damn menace, my favorite moments in ST are when the crew comes together to solve a problem or resolve an issue. Nemesis was a huge misstep for the franchise when they could have made a great Search For Sisco DS9/TNG/VOY crossover movie. Also I would love to see Kirk Vs. Borg in the new universe.
@@TheWarrrenator True dat, I would have had that film insted of Rick Burnums poor mans Wrath of Khan. Though I would be all for a Movie with the Crew of the Enterpries NCC-1701 F, what you think?
I think you'd have to start with the theme. Let's say it's stagnation vs progress for example. You'd want your villain to try to keep the heroes from growing and progressing but to ultimately lose because of their in ability to change. I'd probably make it a female villain because those are fun and we don't get enough of them. Also, Id want her to be the match for the hero ability wise as well as personality, a sort of dark mirror of what they could become if they got stuck in the same trap as the villain.
The Probe is not a villain, it's a plot device. Shinzon is not a villain, it's an angry teenager. V-GER (no idea about the spelling) is not a villain, it's a better plot device than the Probe. Sybok is a brother ex machina, I'm not sure he qualifies has a villain ... "God" was more of a villain to me. The Borg queen was unnecessary but disgustingly iconic. The others are decent to good, thank god for good acting.
I agree 100% with your list and was pleasantly surprised that you put Chang at the top. When I see lists like this, more often than not, Khan is top spot and while he certainly deserves top 3, Borg Queen is also bad ass! ST VI Undiscovered Country is my fave of all Trek movies and often gets overlooked! It is a great bridge from Trek of days past to where Trek was when it was released! 💖🖖
Great list, I really enjoyed it I think the Probe and V'Ger shouldn't be on the list as they aren't villains So covering them as non villains before getting into the villains would have been excellent But you still made a great video, a great list and loved hearing your take on the villains of the Star Trek movies
What I'm getting from this video is that Jessie's top Trek villains also seems to be the ones she finds the hottest with a 66% correlation. And like, that's fair.
So now we need to know: the slightly shorter theatrical cut of ST VI (Undiscovered Country), or the slightly longer and *MASSIVELY* thematically different video release cut? If you're not familiar with the difference between them, I could elaborate on the specific differences, but I strongly recommend finding the video cut if you've not seen it and just watching it (I believe the cassette and early dvd releases use this cut, but the bluray does *not.*) Video release cut (the one I watched and rewatched extensively as a kid, after seeing the theater release just the once) ST VI is, imo, the best piece of Star Trek franchise to date, and is also what sets up much of my "defense" of ST: Picard (or even Discovery, one might argue) since it lays the blame more squarely (but obviously not solely) at the Federation's feet than does the theatrical release. Something I actually appreciate about ST IV is that it doesn't really have a villain -- I wouldn't consider the probe a villain at all. Antagonistic circumstance, sure, but not a villain. In fact, if there *is* a villain to ST IV, I'd call it 20th century humans. I think the idea that whales are actually a distant alien species (or there is a distant alien offshoot of Earth-native whales) that just tried to check in when they didn't hear from Earth for a while is really interesting. For similar reasons, I think the faceless overwhelming pressure of TNG Borg are a far more thematically and narratively interesting antagonist than the queened Borg -- a decision rather clearly made for basic Hollywood audience reasons of "needing" a villain with a face. I actually asked B. Braga about this at a showing of First Contact some dozen years ago, and though I didn't find his response particularly convincing or satisfactory (as I consider the creation of the queen a great loss to the narrative potential for the Borg), he offered the not-unreasonable defense (
I agree with your number 1. Khan is okay, but General Chang had enormous charisma. Plus, Shakespeare in the original Klingon! There was a Klingon language Shakespeare troup at my local conn for a decade or more!
Great list! I agree with the running order although I am torn as to who should be number one, Khan or Chang, they both have a great presence (you're right most of these characters are elevated by their respective actors giving it their all), from my two favourite Trek movies and super quotable to boot - can I cheat and make them share the top spot? 😁 I'm just kicking myself as after watching TWOK more times than I can count, I hadn't even realised that Shatner and Montalban were never on set together. 🤦♀️ Set phasers to stunned! 🔫
Kudos for taking Chang (and not as many would have thought Khan) as number 1 (although i am a little bit bias because Chang ist my favorite Star Trek villain too).
Gotta say, pretty good list. I mean, Voyage Home doesn't really have a villain. Proof that YOU CAN make a great film without one. Search For Spock is one of the few odd number movies that isn't bad. You're on #4... I think it's 3: Borg Queen 2: Admiral Chang (my personal fav) 1: Khan
I agree that Voyage Home doesn't really have a villian. The Probe is like a force of nature that creates jeopardy that the heroes must overcome, much like an earthquake or storm.
Perfect list! ❤️ Plummer and Shatner: two great Montrealers who made the best of Star Trek! 🌟⚜️🇨🇦🖖🏼 But being from Montreal myself I am a bit biased... (We won’t mention Geneviève Bujold...)
Hmmmm...idea on the Probe. In a way, it is kind of like Star Fleet. It was sent to Earth to communicate with the life there, but the only life that could understand it were the whales. Often, Star Fleet personnel go go planets where they communicate with what they consider to be sentient life, but for all they know, there could be other life forms on the planet who are not the "dominant" species but are still intelligent and do have forms of communication. Maybe a big stretch, since the movie mostly is a big conservationist movie. But hopefully something to think about when rewatching Trek episodes: what life are you not seeing?
Dude, Nero, should have been way higher. He blew up an entire planet for revenge and he altered the damn timeline if that doesn’t have a lasting impact I don’t know what does
Watching a lot of behind the scenes information about The Voyage Home, it's discussed that the Probe isn't a villain. It's just a machine/computer following it's programming and it's inability to fulfill it's programming simply makes it a threat. It became a threat because of humans destroying the whales. Humans/humanity are/is the villain. Specifically the actions of humankind of Trek's past (our present)(us/we) are the villains.
First of all, I love the fat mic cover. You probably may want to use a reflector to defuse the light however. I was with you all the way to #'s 2 and 1. I'm not sure that the probes were actually villains though. Sure they are adversaries of a sort, but their motivations are more of a result of programming than for personal gratification. Yes, V'Ger might fit that criteria, but just like "Nomad", some earth probe crashes into a non-earth probe and crazy software ensues. Not really a villain, and more like a thing that you will just need to deal with. OK, you did say they were just things to make the movie move...moving on. Like I said, I was with you until you got to #2 and you said Kahn. I was ready to put my foot through the computer. I rattled off several ancient Egyptian curses that I remembered from "The Mummy" movies and Moon Knight comics. There could not possibly be a villain that is more villain than Ricardo Gonzalo Pedro Montalbán y Merino's (Wikipedia) portrayal of Khan Noonian Singh (I know I spelled everything wrong, but you know who I'm talking about). Had you lost your mind? Was someone holding a gun to your head? Were you just pranking me (because it's always about me)? And then you said #1 was Chang from "The Undiscovered Country"...indeed, my favorite Star Trek film...even over "...The Wrath of Khan"...and I had to sink back in my chair and say..."oh". You are correct indeed. Ricardo Montalbán was magnificent in his roleas Khan, both in Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan. But Christopher Plummer is superb at layering the sinister, the plotting, the levels of three dimensional chess he plays with Captain Kirk. Where Khan was blinded by his single minded need for revenge against Captain Kirk, Chang was focused on using Captain Kirk to further his own agenda. Both characters thought they new him, but didn't realize that they were not just competing with him; they had the entire crew of the Enterprise to contend with. More variances than either of them contemplated, but Chang was indeed more villainy in his approach. So, sorry for the damage to the...I guess my computer. I will take back all of the curses, although I think they may have an opposite affect on me when I do. Well done once again. I look forward to your next video. Possibly one about how many times Kirk encountered synthetic life forms and how he dealt with them.
Hmmmm...I would of put Khan as my number one, but your arguments for Chang are compelling. I think I will call it an honourable draw, with my third place going to Nero. His almost politely conversational moments are in such contrast to his seething hatred of Spock. Ricardo, Christopher and Eric played their parts beautifully.
I thought Soren couldn't fly into the nexus because the resulting explosion from a starship would kill him, but then I don't see why he couldn't have just got in a spacesuit and hung in Space waiting for it to come to him.
Thank you for this video, now I don't feel too bad for my growing love towards the one and only Shakespeare loving Klingon over Khan. lol As much as I love Wrath of Khan, it can be irritating when some Trekkies insists that is HAS to be number 1 in every category despite all the gold Undiscovered Country offers. I dunno if I'd rank Nero that high, I wish they flashed him out a bit more and displayed his inner workings you talk about because as it is, he does come off as a "I'm an angry guy who needs to destroy things" type. There was a deleted scene that showed that he spent two decades in Rura Penthe after the battle against the Kelvin (all that remains is a vague mention of it, but until I saw those cut scenes I never understood it was him or where he was in that single flashback shot), that would've also explained why he's so bitter and couldn't just try to move on and settle down in the alternate Romulus and recover appreciating that he has another chance. I dunno. Retroactively I have a lot of mixed feelings towards 2009 despite being a fun film. Lots of deleted scenes would've made it more deep and insightful, I wonder if Winona Ryder would've accepted her part as Spock's mom if she knew they were gonna remove many of her scenes.
Also, I am not upset about Khan being no. 2; Chang is the best; if only because his goal was to bring his entire culture back to it's core beliefs ... at least as he saw it. That makes his a villainous archetype, in that I am sure that General Chang saw himself as a hero.
I prefer Khan, but Chang is definitely my number two. Have you played the PC game Klingon Academy? David Warner & Christopher Plummer reprise their roles as Gorkon & Chang quite compellingly.
I'll say this about The Final Frontier. It's the MOST TOS film. Someone takes over the Enterprise, talking heads and godlike Aliens, center of the galaxy. The only thing we are missing is a culture suspiciously like historical Earth.
I'm okay with your list. I so love the line "from hell's heart I stab at thee." So over the top with me. Shinzon.. eesh.. Not a movie I like.. but I hate it less when I realized that Picard is HIS nemesis... I also love Beyond, but I think it was Shives who pointed out all the plot holes. I still like it, but I see them now. I just try and ignore it and carry on. Funny that the "villain" can make a crap movie better or just be incidental. I just wonder why no one ever points out that Nomad is Vger's little baby brother. So YAWN. If you're going to repeat a plot.. twist it better..
I've enjoyed your recent Trek videos. Only heard the two on '09 and this one. I'm one of those poor losers who didn't like the "J.J. Trek" films but doesn't enjoy feeling left out, even in an angry/righteous way. 90s Trek (technically '89-'99, because TNG Season Three fucking rules) is still my Trek, and has been ever since the 00s. Because I mostly caught them on reruns. Your thoughtful positivity, mixed with just the right amount of criticism for the shallowest elements of the franchise, really threads the needle for me. I'm happy you're happy with it all, and I can feel happy that plenty of intelligent, sensitive people who are indeed aware of the older series do enjoy the new stuff, but not in a drinking-the-Kool-Aid way. There's nothing I hate in all of Trekdom so much as someone who wants to abuse those fans who love it for different reasons than they used to. And while I too spent my most formative/sensitive years being mocked for liking Trek, I'm hoping that's a custom that dies soon. I hate to think that I, for any reason, continued it during my angriest days. I guess I'm saying I'd be overjoyed to hear you make more videos about ANYthing Trek-related. And I am hereby subscribing to your channel (/newsletter?)
Understanding I've seen all of these once, when they came out. So in a way I go with who stands out in my memory. Sure, your top three could shuffle however one likes. But Nero... I literally (and I mean literally, not figuratively) forgot the character's name as soon as you were finished talking about him. Sybok sticks with me. (Top for me would put Change 3rd, Borg Queen 2nd, and Khan 1st.
Completely agree with you about Chang being the best Trek movie villain; he's by far the most interesting and enjoyable to watch. I've never had the level of reverence for Khan that his character is usually given. I've always associated him as simply an antagonist brought back from a mediocre TOS episode, and never really understood why he's considered so great and iconic. Don't get me wrong, I still think he is one of the best Trek movie villains there is, but when it comes to Trek movies villains, I don't think the bar is set very high. The movie/plot itself is usually far better than the lead villain that is In it. My top list is: 1. Chang (nothing's better than Shakespeare in its original Klingon) 2. The Borg Queen (since I saw Voyager before anything else, I always saw the Borg having a queen as normal and better than not having a queen. If I'd seen TNG first, then I might have felt differently) 3. Khan 4. Soran 5. Kruge 6. V'Ger (although I don't really consider V'Ger a villain) 7. Ru'afo 7. Shinzon 8. Probe (again, not really a villain) 9. Sybok (less to do with the character, and more to do with the fact that he is Spock's randomly and inexplicably inserted brother) I don't like the Kelvin universe, so I'm not going to bother putting those villains on the list since I'm biased towards disliking them. I hate the new Romulan look of Nero, I hate the completely non-Khan-looking Khan (I think Cumberbatch is a brilliant actor, but I can't see him as Khan at all), I can't remember anything about Marcus since I only saw the film once, and I've never seen ST:Beyond.
If you get a chance to watch it I highly recommend Beyond, it doesn't feel like the other Kelvin movies, and adheres to existing canon better than the previous two, what with all the Enterprise references, and it was written by self-avowed Trekkie Simon Pegg Rowan J. Coleman did a great video on why he thinks it's the best Trek movie, does contain spoilers though: ruclips.net/video/OrJMIsR2eeQ/видео.html
I feel like the only person who thinks Khan is not a good villain. I think the actor did a great job but I just never bought Khan's motivation as a villain. I'm also one of the only people who doesn't really like Wrath of Khan as a movie. I think that movie is entirely held up by Spock's death and Khan mostly just feels like he's in the way of both the characters and the story. I 100% agree on Admiral Chang as number 1. I love Undiscovered Country so so much and I think Christopher Plummer really sold that role and is a big reason why it's my favorite Star Trek movie.
What do you think of the criticism that vengeance is used a villain motivator too often in Star Trek movies? Also, I understand your reasoning for not calling Kelvin Khan the villain, but I think it's a shame that you didn't talk more about him. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the character.
How many other films can say they have a one-eyed Shakespeare quoting Klingon as their villain? NONE!!! That is why Star Trek 6 is AWESOME!!!
And having your eyepatch SCREWED into your face is soo BADASS! I still would have made Khan #1 because his lasting influence, but I agree about Star Trek Six...thanks for giving it the respect it deserves. And it came out just as the Cold War was ending so the plot was very timely.
Khan will always be number 1 over Chang
I assume Sybok's motivation was a particularly interesting LSD trip. Afterward, he fixed up the old shuttlecraft he had been living in behind the Sarek house and went searching for God, "Roadtrip, dude!"
I think Whale-Probe was more of an anti-hero than a villain. Sure we might disagree with the tactics but assuming it had a heart, that heart was in the right place, looking out for its friends.
Sort of but it also only vaguely even counts as a character to begin with. It really just a basic plot point.
Poor Shinzon. He tried. And he had a snazzy rainbow jacket.
I'd have put him much higher on the list. Probably at 6 or so.
And magnificent Tom Hardy did what he could with what he had. There’s hints of his future in there, his character just sucks on the page.
Better off bulking up and wear a breathing mask in Gotham.
I really enjoyed your analysis of Nero, I’ve never really been able to articulate why I love him so much, other than “Hi Christopher, I’m Nero.” being one of my favorite Star Trek quotes of all time. Your points on his character were so... on point!
This isn’t a comment of substance, but I love the one prominent earring look. Serving a Pat Benatar Invincible vibe.
"Hello Christopher, I'm Nero," is such a great scene. I was hoping you would hit upon that and you did!
The biggest flaw with Nero is that his character development was left to supplemental material. If they built more of that into the movie, I think he'd be higher on the list.
Krug*e* hits the right note for me due to his first scene. I love the interaction with him and the female Klingon as he realizes she's seen the video on Genesis and she realizes that means her death. The scene is so great as it is a horrible thing in our mind to kill her and the innocent crew, but the understanding between the two Klingons that this *has* to happen in both of their estimations.
I agree 100% with your #1 pick. Khan is great, but General Chang is so much more layered and coolly charismatic. I love it when the hero and villain have a formal dinner at some point int he movie, sparring over dinner conversation (Kirk and Khan had a great such scene in the episode "Space Seed").
Number 1 is Khan over Chang
Since what happened to him mostly predates Nero’s temporal incursion, I’d love to see a Prime Timeline Krall one day. Maybe as the villain of an arc in a 25th century series continuing the forward momentum of the franchise from Voyager and Picard
YES! Justice for Chang, he is awesome, the dinner scene is one of my all-time favourites.
Some nitpicks
Chang was a General, Ru'afo is pronounced Roo'arfo, Kruge is spelled with an e
My list
1. Chang
2. Krall
3. Khan
4. Marcus
5. Shinzon
6. Borg Queen
7. Kruge
8. Nero
9. Sybok
10. Ru'afo
11. Soran
12. V'ger
13. Probe
Khan is number 1 and I agree with all the others
I honestly don’t consider The Probe as a villain. In the novelization, this made clear that They just want to meet Earth’s whales to hear about “their stories”
I'm glad that you rate Chang so highly he's my favourite villain as well. Although his quoting of Shakespeare did get a little out of hand towards the end. Though you could say that he was a bit like Grand Admiral Thrawn, studying the art and literature of other races in a want to better understand them and their ways of combat. Regardless, great video.
I always thought they gave him the wrong final quote. Instead of "to be or not to be" they should have had him say "to sleep, perchance to dream". The Hamlet quote is so commonplace, it's a bit cliched.
Khan is number 1
Your so right about admiral Marcus he is definitely a villain
Awesome analysis, this makes me want to go back and rewatch "Undiscovered Country."
Christopher Lloyd is so good as Krug. He's THE reason to watch Star Trek 3 💜
Yeah i really did love that "lack of charisma" with Nero. Maybe it was just that contrast that raise him a bit higher on the list for me, i mean just look at all the people on this list you went "their actor's charisma made the character".
That and you really have to be trying to screw up "revenge" as an character's motivation.
Yeah, the fact that he was a grunt that just happened to be in control with an axe to grind (remiiiiiiiind you of anyone?) was a really fresh take on ST’s establishment of highly intelligent, charismatic villains.
I wonder if Krug being so intelligent, conniving, and generally Un-Klingon, is another holdover from earlier drafts of Search For Spock where the villains were Romulans, along with how Klingons wound up with their own birds of prey moving forward.
This is gonna be a fun video topic!
Thanks Jessie!
Oh hell yeah! Undiscovered Country doesn't get the respect it deserves. It is everything great about Star Trek in one movie. And I'll take any chance to see David Warner being more than whatever it was they wasted him on in Final Frontier. I love that entire dinner scene.
I would like to
see a young Chang in Strange new worlds
Given how long Klingons live (TOS ones were popping up all over DS9), I see no reason he cannot be in SNW. maybe Pike is responsible for the loss of the eye and Chang has a lingering underlying loathing and respect for the Enterprise. You can see the glee in his eye when he has the Enterprise in his sights and the resignation when he knew that the Enterprise was going to be integral in his death.
Yes CBS, please put that in so we can watch movie again with even more subtleties.
I'm for it, providing SNW doesn't fall into the star trek wars trope that I'm so bored with. I don't want to see pike fighting the klingons for a whole damn season. Let's explore please.
Chang in Strange New Worlds: To Be or not to be? That is the quesiton.
This dropped just as walked in to work so worth the wait . Another killer video ( chef kiss my fingers ) outstanding!!!
"The planet is tearing itself apart!"
"Yes. Exhilarating, isn't it?"
Interesting perspective! While we may not agree about specific placement, a key takeaway from this ranking is that there is ZERO correlation between quality of villain and quality of movie. I wish people would stop saying “the key to a great movie is a great antagonist” or “what makes the movies better is a really great villain.” You prove this so wrong. Thank you!
I go chang, borg queen then khan.
I agree with you on two big points, I love enterprise, carbon creek is one of my top7 favorite episodes. And ST6 is likely my favorite movie as well. That or first contact.
Ok, ok... I love Chang too. Undiscovered Country was the first Trek I saw in theaters and I still quote Chang to this day... which is actually quoting Shakespeare. I'd put Khan and General Chang on the same level. "Don't wait for the translation! Answer me now!"
Glad to see appreciation for the Undiscovered County! 🙌 It's definitely my personal favorite Star Trek film as well.
i always thought that Khan was indirectly perceived as extra hardcore because so many people (at the time the film was released) knew Montalban well from Fantasy Island, a show in which he's a charming, personable, smiley, and mysteriously magical character in his all-white suit in paradise. I grew up with him as Mr.Roarke, and Kahn being the doppleganger. I also wondered if Don Karnage, villian from Disney's Tailspin was based on Khan. or maybe the accent was simply familiar.
I had not been able to articulate it before, but you hit why Chang is such a great and unique Klingon villain right on the head! The Undiscovered Country is criminally underrated in most lists!
"Credits to the actress, Jonathan Frakes"
You're summing up of Shinzon had me in stitches🖖😄
That was an interesting list Jessie. Personally? Would've listed both the whale probe and V'ger on another list. In The Voyage Home, the probe was presented as a non sentient device on a specific mission. With Spock expressing that the probe's intention wasn't hostile. Therefore I don't see that probe as having the emotional subtext, intent or motivation a villain would have. As for V'Ger, it was a very advanced abstraction of an Earth probe seeking sentience, but not fully achieving it until joining with Decker. Therefore, but it in the same category as the whale probe. Other than than, not a bad last. And personally, don't care where Khan and General Chang are on this list. They are my top Star Trek movie villains either way too.
I like the Borg idea of colective when they first appear. There are no individuals, there are only parts. The ship is a square!!!!! Actually ships don't need to be aerodinamic in deep space because... no air, duh! But we need the shapes to "see" velocity. And there come the Borg in a square ship and they are on your heels. But there isn't even a face to fear. Complete losse of individuality. Scary thought.
I think I was a little disappointed when later there is a Mother, a Queen to the beehive. But I understand the need to give it a face and a voice if the Borg were going to show up more and be more relevant. And the insect Queen analogy is of course the best way to go. The Mother looks so cool, too. Sexy and scary and motherly.
Oh, like how you said the villain was not Khan in the recent movie. Also in the original one, he was somewhat a victim. There are always, even in history, these almost faceless characters that do so much damage and start chain reactions and get away with it. Those are the big villains.
They address in Generations why Soran doesn't fly into the Nexus with a ship. Picard and Data talk about it!
"Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we not revenge?"... I love General Chang, a very interesting and unconventional choice so to speak. 👍👍👍
A very nice list, thanks! I've only seen "Undiscovered Country" once, so on that basis, I put Khan as number one (and I adore Montalban).
Also, I'm glad to know I'm not apparently the only one who isn't all that fond of Klingons. I also find them one-note, though the actors who play them are usually wonderful and do wonders with them. Personally, I prefer the Romulans. It's a similar reason I can live without Dalleks, although Davros is great concept and a great character.
Chang was absolutely great. And he was real fun in his Klingon Academy appearances, which were set a little bit before Undiscovered Country as a lead-up to it.
A good list. I have grown more indifferent to the Star Trek movies over the years because since the TOS movies we have gotten so much in terms of series and the 2 new trek shows discovery and Picard have the feel of a movie. Although the movies are far more important for the Kelvin timeline. I think that Trek has been blessed with so many high caliber actors to play the villains. What is so shocking is that I did not realize that there has only been 1 major female villain in the movie franchise. I have grown to the view that I like villains and heroes where there is some layers of gray. I kind of want the heroes to make difficult choices (I think of Archer and the Xindi war)
In many ways that is what makes Krall more interesting. I hope that we get more villains that are more tragic in nature where you don’t necessarily root for them but you can understand there predicament.
@19:23 It would serve to function the continuity of the show that the Queen may have been an adaptation by the Borg in order to assimilate individualistic humanity. She only posits that she was there during Picard’s assimilation as Locutus but may have been adapted from the moment of their introduction by Q or whenever. That being said, I think Q is Star Trek’s greatest villain because even though there is a relationship there in the series, he does serve as an omnipotent, if playful, antagonist.
I had difficulty placing Chang and Khan as well, it was a toss up for me.
I absolutely agree on Khan and Chang. Christopher Plummer was such an absolute success as the general. I think Martok in his best moments would sometimes channel him, sadly not enough.
I'm totally with you, Jessie! Except that Chang was a General, not an Admiral
100% on point can’t argue. Perfect casting makes the ST movies a cut above
Undiscovered country is my favorite trek film too! It's so good and complex
Khan will always be my #1, because STII was the first Trek I remember seeing and recognizing as Trek. My dad was watching it on cable when I was like 9--10 years old, and I came in partway through, not knowing anything about it, and was immediately hooked. That was all I knew about Star Trek until I was 13 or so, when a friend introduced me to TNG. Having seen a lot more Trek now, I can understand why Chang is so high up (he'd be #2 on my list), but Khan left an impact on me the same way Darth Vader had done when I was 4-5. Ironically, I didn't get to see "Space Seed" until I was in my 30s. Seeing young Khan, knowing what would become of him, was so cool!
I agreed with your ranking, Jessie.....except for Khan. I would've put him first.
I love Nero, especially with what I know of the supplemental material and deleted scenes. He managed to steal Borg technology being researched by Romulans to upgrade his ship, get to the past, then survive and escape Klingon prison all before the movie starts in earnest. He's very much a villain who is a hero of his own story.
The opening segment of Generations, with Kirk, Scotty and Chekov, illustrates clearly that shuttles cannot just fly into the Nexus.
Mad respect to having Chang as #1. That whole trial sequence is one of my favorite Trek moments and I'd go as far to say my favorite Christopher Plummer role.
Related to that, Undiscovered Country is probably my favorite iteration of the Klingons. They're still warriors with a rich culture, but not...over the top. The way they are in TNG, DS9, and VOY never clicked for me because they reminded me too much of stereotypical, romanticised Vikings.
I know it's probably not true, but I have a feeling Martok was trying to evoke Chang a bit because he's relatively more composed and dignified than the other main Klingons.
There's no way Khan will even not be the number one Star Trek movie villain. And that's OK. :D
I don't think of the Probe as a villain, and I like it because it's a pretty neat concept.
Totally agreed about Shinzon. Ugh.
You met Shatner? I know he’s kinda fallen off lately but that’s still cool! Much honor to have photos with captains of the Enterprise and Discovery
Great list!!! I'm from Brazil, love your videos ♥️
Interesting that Jessie's top gripe with Klingons are that they can be so one dimensional and yet her favorite Trek Movie villain is a multi-faceted Klingon named Chang. The difference with Chang is that he was directed by a non star trek fan director: Nicholas Meyer.
That is a nice amazing video, if there is a new movie for Trek how would you create a villian?
As good as villans are i like the idea in Star Trek that the situation can be the villan.
Even though The Probe and V’ger are basically redesigns of the same damn menace, my favorite moments in ST are when the crew comes together to solve a problem or resolve an issue. Nemesis was a huge misstep for the franchise when they could have made a great Search For Sisco DS9/TNG/VOY crossover movie. Also I would love to see Kirk Vs. Borg in the new universe.
@@TheWarrrenator True dat, I would have had that film insted of Rick Burnums poor mans Wrath of Khan. Though I would be all for a Movie with the Crew of the Enterpries NCC-1701 F, what you think?
I think you'd have to start with the theme. Let's say it's stagnation vs progress for example. You'd want your villain to try to keep the heroes from growing and progressing but to ultimately lose because of their in ability to change. I'd probably make it a female villain because those are fun and we don't get enough of them. Also, Id want her to be the match for the hero ability wise as well as personality, a sort of dark mirror of what they could become if they got stuck in the same trap as the villain.
The Probe is not a villain, it's a plot device. Shinzon is not a villain, it's an angry teenager. V-GER (no idea about the spelling) is not a villain, it's a better plot device than the Probe. Sybok is a brother ex machina, I'm not sure he qualifies has a villain ... "God" was more of a villain to me. The Borg queen was unnecessary but disgustingly iconic. The others are decent to good, thank god for good acting.
Oh good, you acknowledged that Admiral Robocop is the true villain of Into Redoing Khan.
He's not Khan is
I agree 100% with your list and was pleasantly surprised that you put Chang at the top. When I see lists like this, more often than not, Khan is top spot and while he certainly deserves top 3, Borg Queen is also bad ass! ST VI Undiscovered Country is my fave of all Trek movies and often gets overlooked! It is a great bridge from Trek of days past to where Trek was when it was released! 💖🖖
Great list, I really enjoyed it
I think the Probe and V'Ger shouldn't be on the list as they aren't villains
So covering them as non villains before getting into the villains would have been excellent
But you still made a great video, a great list and loved hearing your take on the villains of the Star Trek movies
Lursa and B'etor? They should be on this list if nothing else for their huge fun bags.
What I'm getting from this video is that Jessie's top Trek villains also seems to be the ones she finds the hottest with a 66% correlation. And like, that's fair.
So now we need to know: the slightly shorter theatrical cut of ST VI (Undiscovered Country), or the slightly longer and *MASSIVELY* thematically different video release cut? If you're not familiar with the difference between them, I could elaborate on the specific differences, but I strongly recommend finding the video cut if you've not seen it and just watching it (I believe the cassette and early dvd releases use this cut, but the bluray does *not.*) Video release cut (the one I watched and rewatched extensively as a kid, after seeing the theater release just the once) ST VI is, imo, the best piece of Star Trek franchise to date, and is also what sets up much of my "defense" of ST: Picard (or even Discovery, one might argue) since it lays the blame more squarely (but obviously not solely) at the Federation's feet than does the theatrical release.
Something I actually appreciate about ST IV is that it doesn't really have a villain -- I wouldn't consider the probe a villain at all. Antagonistic circumstance, sure, but not a villain. In fact, if there *is* a villain to ST IV, I'd call it 20th century humans. I think the idea that whales are actually a distant alien species (or there is a distant alien offshoot of Earth-native whales) that just tried to check in when they didn't hear from Earth for a while is really interesting.
For similar reasons, I think the faceless overwhelming pressure of TNG Borg are a far more thematically and narratively interesting antagonist than the queened Borg -- a decision rather clearly made for basic Hollywood audience reasons of "needing" a villain with a face. I actually asked B. Braga about this at a showing of First Contact some dozen years ago, and though I didn't find his response particularly convincing or satisfactory (as I consider the creation of the queen a great loss to the narrative potential for the Borg), he offered the not-unreasonable defense (
Don't look, but there's a mini Romulan Bird of Prey flying around the inside the shelf behind you.
After watch comment: I was right, This was a fun video. Thanks again Jessie. 🖖🏻
Oof, I could not agree more with your number one pick. I really should rewatch that film some time. :)
I agree with your number 1. Khan is okay, but General Chang had enormous charisma. Plus, Shakespeare in the original Klingon! There was a Klingon language Shakespeare troup at my local conn for a decade or more!
Great list! I agree with the running order although I am torn as to who should be number one, Khan or Chang, they both have a great presence (you're right most of these characters are elevated by their respective actors giving it their all), from my two favourite Trek movies and super quotable to boot - can I cheat and make them share the top spot? 😁
I'm just kicking myself as after watching TWOK more times than I can count, I hadn't even realised that Shatner and Montalban were never on set together. 🤦♀️ Set phasers to stunned! 🔫
Kudos for taking Chang (and not as many would have thought Khan) as number 1 (although i am a little bit bias because Chang ist my favorite Star Trek villain too).
I really like that you have lots of good stuff to say about every villain....except the whales probe, of course.
Gotta say, pretty good list. I mean, Voyage Home doesn't really have a villain. Proof that YOU CAN make a great film without one.
Search For Spock is one of the few odd number movies that isn't bad.
You're on #4... I think it's
3: Borg Queen
2: Admiral Chang (my personal fav)
1: Khan
OMG!! SO HAPPY TO BE WRONG!
CRY HAVOC, AND LET LOOSE THE HOUNDS OF HELL!
I agree that Voyage Home doesn't really have a villian. The Probe is like a force of nature that creates jeopardy that the heroes must overcome, much like an earthquake or storm.
Perfect list! ❤️ Plummer and Shatner: two great Montrealers who made the best of Star Trek! 🌟⚜️🇨🇦🖖🏼
But being from Montreal myself I am a bit biased...
(We won’t mention Geneviève Bujold...)
Hmmmm...idea on the Probe. In a way, it is kind of like Star Fleet. It was sent to Earth to communicate with the life there, but the only life that could understand it were the whales. Often, Star Fleet personnel go go planets where they communicate with what they consider to be sentient life, but for all they know, there could be other life forms on the planet who are not the "dominant" species but are still intelligent and do have forms of communication.
Maybe a big stretch, since the movie mostly is a big conservationist movie. But hopefully something to think about when rewatching Trek episodes: what life are you not seeing?
You did that probe dirty!... I could have worded that better.
Dude, Nero, should have been way higher. He blew up an entire planet for revenge and he altered the damn timeline if that doesn’t have a lasting impact I don’t know what does
Still watching older videos too and leaving comments just to feed the monster under the interface
Watching a lot of behind the scenes information about The Voyage Home, it's discussed that the Probe isn't a villain. It's just a machine/computer following it's programming and it's inability to fulfill it's programming simply makes it a threat.
It became a threat because of humans destroying the whales.
Humans/humanity are/is the villain.
Specifically the actions of humankind of Trek's past (our present)(us/we) are the villains.
First of all, I love the fat mic cover. You probably may want to use a reflector to defuse the light however.
I was with you all the way to #'s 2 and 1. I'm not sure that the probes were actually villains though. Sure they are adversaries of a sort, but their motivations are more of a result of programming than for personal gratification. Yes, V'Ger might fit that criteria, but just like "Nomad", some earth probe crashes into a non-earth probe and crazy software ensues. Not really a villain, and more like a thing that you will just need to deal with. OK, you did say they were just things to make the movie move...moving on.
Like I said, I was with you until you got to #2 and you said Kahn. I was ready to put my foot through the computer. I rattled off several ancient Egyptian curses that I remembered from "The Mummy" movies and Moon Knight comics. There could not possibly be a villain that is more villain than Ricardo Gonzalo Pedro Montalbán y Merino's (Wikipedia) portrayal of Khan Noonian Singh (I know I spelled everything wrong, but you know who I'm talking about). Had you lost your mind? Was someone holding a gun to your head? Were you just pranking me (because it's always about me)? And then you said #1 was Chang from "The Undiscovered Country"...indeed, my favorite Star Trek film...even over "...The Wrath of Khan"...and I had to sink back in my chair and say..."oh".
You are correct indeed. Ricardo Montalbán was magnificent in his roleas Khan, both in Space Seed and The Wrath of Khan. But Christopher Plummer is superb at layering the sinister, the plotting, the levels of three dimensional chess he plays with Captain Kirk. Where Khan was blinded by his single minded need for revenge against Captain Kirk, Chang was focused on using Captain Kirk to further his own agenda. Both characters thought they new him, but didn't realize that they were not just competing with him; they had the entire crew of the Enterprise to contend with. More variances than either of them contemplated, but Chang was indeed more villainy in his approach.
So, sorry for the damage to the...I guess my computer. I will take back all of the curses, although I think they may have an opposite affect on me when I do. Well done once again. I look forward to your next video. Possibly one about how many times Kirk encountered synthetic life forms and how he dealt with them.
Khan Noonien Sing sounds similar to Noonian Soong. Sorry if i messed up the spellingn
Hmmmm...I would of put Khan as my number one, but your arguments for Chang are compelling. I think I will call it an honourable draw, with my third place going to Nero. His almost politely conversational moments are in such contrast to his seething hatred of Spock. Ricardo, Christopher and Eric played their parts beautifully.
Lol Shinzon was only not at the bottom because he was better than a giant sausage in Space
I haven’t watched yet, I’m just commenting to help make a mental note to come back to this video later tonight. 😊
How did I miss this vid until now!?!!! 🖖🏼🤟🏼👊🏼💜🎶🐈⬛💥
Did you honestly just say that forced relocation is a morally gray issue rather than being a flat out bad thing???????
A gang plank is a beam of wood, so beaming over is a real thing.
The list is fair, it's nice to see the guy from The Sound of Music at number one. It highlights the often low quality of villains in star trek though.
I thought Soren couldn't fly into the nexus because the resulting explosion from a starship would kill him, but then I don't see why he couldn't have just got in a spacesuit and hung in Space waiting for it to come to him.
Thank you for this video, now I don't feel too bad for my growing love towards the one and only Shakespeare loving Klingon over Khan. lol As much as I love Wrath of Khan, it can be irritating when some Trekkies insists that is HAS to be number 1 in every category despite all the gold Undiscovered Country offers.
I dunno if I'd rank Nero that high, I wish they flashed him out a bit more and displayed his inner workings you talk about because as it is, he does come off as a "I'm an angry guy who needs to destroy things" type. There was a deleted scene that showed that he spent two decades in Rura Penthe after the battle against the Kelvin (all that remains is a vague mention of it, but until I saw those cut scenes I never understood it was him or where he was in that single flashback shot), that would've also explained why he's so bitter and couldn't just try to move on and settle down in the alternate Romulus and recover appreciating that he has another chance.
I dunno. Retroactively I have a lot of mixed feelings towards 2009 despite being a fun film. Lots of deleted scenes would've made it more deep and insightful, I wonder if Winona Ryder would've accepted her part as Spock's mom if she knew they were gonna remove many of her scenes.
I think I love the Borg Queen the best, but Chang and Khan would fill out my top three as well.
Also, I am not upset about Khan being no. 2; Chang is the best; if only because his goal was to bring his entire culture back to it's core beliefs ... at least as he saw it. That makes his a villainous archetype, in that I am sure that General Chang saw himself as a hero.
I prefer Khan, but Chang is definitely my number two.
Have you played the PC game Klingon Academy? David Warner & Christopher Plummer reprise their roles as Gorkon & Chang quite compellingly.
I'll say this about The Final Frontier.
It's the MOST TOS film. Someone takes over the Enterprise, talking heads and godlike Aliens, center of the galaxy.
The only thing we are missing is a culture suspiciously like historical Earth.
Gul Dukat would deserve a movie, too. Best villain hands down! Also typo. ;)
I'm okay with your list. I so love the line "from hell's heart I stab at thee." So over the top with me. Shinzon.. eesh.. Not a movie I like.. but I hate it less when I realized that Picard is HIS nemesis... I also love Beyond, but I think it was Shives who pointed out all the plot holes. I still like it, but I see them now. I just try and ignore it and carry on. Funny that the "villain" can make a crap movie better or just be incidental. I just wonder why no one ever points out that Nomad is Vger's little baby brother. So YAWN. If you're going to repeat a plot.. twist it better..
I've enjoyed your recent Trek videos. Only heard the two on '09 and this one. I'm one of those poor losers who didn't like the "J.J. Trek" films but doesn't enjoy feeling left out, even in an angry/righteous way. 90s Trek (technically '89-'99, because TNG Season Three fucking rules) is still my Trek, and has been ever since the 00s. Because I mostly caught them on reruns. Your thoughtful positivity, mixed with just the right amount of criticism for the shallowest elements of the franchise, really threads the needle for me. I'm happy you're happy with it all, and I can feel happy that plenty of intelligent, sensitive people who are indeed aware of the older series do enjoy the new stuff, but not in a drinking-the-Kool-Aid way. There's nothing I hate in all of Trekdom so much as someone who wants to abuse those fans who love it for different reasons than they used to. And while I too spent my most formative/sensitive years being mocked for liking Trek, I'm hoping that's a custom that dies soon. I hate to think that I, for any reason, continued it during my angriest days.
I guess I'm saying I'd be overjoyed to hear you make more videos about ANYthing Trek-related. And I am hereby subscribing to your channel (/newsletter?)
Understanding I've seen all of these once, when they came out. So in a way I go with who stands out in my memory. Sure, your top three could shuffle however one likes. But Nero... I literally (and I mean literally, not figuratively) forgot the character's name as soon as you were finished talking about him. Sybok sticks with me. (Top for me would put Change 3rd, Borg Queen 2nd, and Khan 1st.
Completely agree with you about Chang being the best Trek movie villain; he's by far the most interesting and enjoyable to watch. I've never had the level of reverence for Khan that his character is usually given. I've always associated him as simply an antagonist brought back from a mediocre TOS episode, and never really understood why he's considered so great and iconic. Don't get me wrong, I still think he is one of the best Trek movie villains there is, but when it comes to Trek movies villains, I don't think the bar is set very high. The movie/plot itself is usually far better than the lead villain that is In it. My top list is:
1. Chang (nothing's better than Shakespeare in its original Klingon)
2. The Borg Queen (since I saw Voyager before anything else, I always saw the Borg having a queen as normal and better than not having a queen. If I'd seen TNG first, then I might have felt differently)
3. Khan
4. Soran
5. Kruge
6. V'Ger (although I don't really consider V'Ger a villain)
7. Ru'afo
7. Shinzon
8. Probe (again, not really a villain)
9. Sybok (less to do with the character, and more to do with the fact that he is Spock's randomly and inexplicably inserted brother)
I don't like the Kelvin universe, so I'm not going to bother putting those villains on the list since I'm biased towards disliking them. I hate the new Romulan look of Nero, I hate the completely non-Khan-looking Khan (I think Cumberbatch is a brilliant actor, but I can't see him as Khan at all), I can't remember anything about Marcus since I only saw the film once, and I've never seen ST:Beyond.
If you get a chance to watch it I highly recommend Beyond, it doesn't feel like the other Kelvin movies, and adheres to existing canon better than the previous two, what with all the Enterprise references, and it was written by self-avowed Trekkie Simon Pegg
Rowan J. Coleman did a great video on why he thinks it's the best Trek movie, does contain spoilers though: ruclips.net/video/OrJMIsR2eeQ/видео.html
@@KayleighBourquin Thanks. It might be worth a look at then. I won't watch the spoilers, but if it comes on TV, I'll try to catch it.
I feel like the only person who thinks Khan is not a good villain. I think the actor did a great job but I just never bought Khan's motivation as a villain. I'm also one of the only people who doesn't really like Wrath of Khan as a movie. I think that movie is entirely held up by Spock's death and Khan mostly just feels like he's in the way of both the characters and the story.
I 100% agree on Admiral Chang as number 1. I love Undiscovered Country so so much and I think Christopher Plummer really sold that role and is a big reason why it's my favorite Star Trek movie.
What do you think of the criticism that vengeance is used a villain motivator too often in Star Trek movies?
Also, I understand your reasoning for not calling Kelvin Khan the villain, but I think it's a shame that you didn't talk more about him. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the character.
Don’t worry, I got a whole video coming on Into Darkness early next month
Ngl, star trek has probably some of the coolest villains
God I love Alice Krige