I’m so tired of this revisionist history bullshit on these debates. NOBODY EVER had conversations about Wade or Dirk being better than Kobe at any point in time.
That is not true. After the title they definerly was talks of wade being the best player in the league. It wasn’t a big group of people saying it but it did exist.
@ of course speaking the sense of majority there is always a small group of people saying something just like this idiotic take of Dirk being the best player exist.
@@atribecalledlen3567no when wade crushed the team that locked Kobe up with a prime shaq while dwade with a old and banged up shaq that wasn’t prime dominanted them so it definitely was a argument he beat the same team with lest help and dominated the finals
@@ChelloTheKilla it should be Kobe at the top in 2006 but the mvp race and postseason outcomes just make it more complicated for casuals fans, and I say this as a Non-Kobe Stan
In the 2002-2003 NBA season, Tim Duncan had an MVP-caliber year for the San Antonio Spurs, leading them to an NBA Championship. Here are his key stats for that season: • Games Played: 81 • Points Per Game (PPG): 23.3 •Rebounds Per Game (RPG): 12.9 • Assists Per Game (APG): 3.9 • Blocks Per Game (BPG): 2.9 • Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 51.3% • Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 71.0% Playoffs: In the 2003 NBA Playoffs, Duncan elevated his performance, averaging: • Points Per Game: 24.7 • Rebounds Per Game: 15.4 • Assists Per Game: 5.3 • Blocks Per Game: 3.3 Tim Duncan’s dominance culminated in him being named the NBA Finals MVP as he led the Spurs to victory over the New Jersey Nets. His incredible two-way play and consistency solidified his status as the best player in the league that year. Damn Tim was better in 2003
@@TheIcemanthomas that maybe true as well, that's why I said garnett "might" clear, but the advance stats like on/off box score and vorp favor garnett as well but it's still debatable in my opinion
Ron was spot on when he said he’s the most hated superstar of all time. Everyone that didnt grow up a Kobe fan hates him with a passion it’s the weirdest shit.
Swipa kept saying to Marz to not bring up narratives and media talk yet continued to bring up mvp votes which is very much made of media talk and narratives
@@penkima4923 good thing the best player doesn't always win the MVP. embiid has never been better than jokic a day in his life and if i remember correctly, jordan or james did not win the MVP every year they were clearly the best.
i could care less about MVP voting, you should rely on who YOU think is better not a panel of voters that change every 10 years who have their own biases & agendas.
The logic is dumb because sometimes you peak at the same time other players peaked. if I peak during Lebrons Era, that doesnt mean i cant be top 10 all time. It jsut means there was a better top ten player playing at the same time as me lol
Kobe - Beat the most 50+ win teams in NBA history; eliminated a record 24 50 win teams vs Lebrons ~11, which is less than half. - Second most points scored in a single game NBA history, First most in the modern era. - Oldest player to score 60+ - 3rd most consecutive 50+ point games in NBA history - 2nd most All-NBA First Team honors won (tied with Malone) - Most All-NBA Team honors won by a guard - Most All-NBA First Team honors won by a guard - 2nd most All-Defensive Team honors won - Most All-Defensive First Team honors won (tied with Mike, GP, KG) - Only player in NBA history to score at least 600 points in the postseason for three consecutive years - Oldest player to record back-to-back games of 40+ points and 10+ assists - Carried Olympic team to a gold medal - 5x NBA Champion on a three-peat - Dragged a squad with no other superstar/top 75 to repeat - 2x Finals MVP - 1x MVP - 2x Scoring Champ - 9x All-Defense First - 3x All-NBA Second - 18x NBA All Star Kobe is also 1 of only 6 players to win back-to-back Finals MVP (2peat). Kobe did this in one of the most competitive conference in history. He did all that and scored 35.1ppg on a team that only averaged 96ppg as a team and he did so in the slowest paced era and lowest scoring era in league history. On the list of highest 2nd half PPG in the playoffs from 89-2023, Kobe is on that list 3x. Averaged 17.3 in 01 (more than Shaq), 18.3 in 03, 17.3 in 08.
Why yall kobe fans bringing up team accomplishments when Kobe was literally trash before Pau Gasol came there? There's even a case gasol should be finals mvp in 2010 but yall kobe fans will ignore his HORRENDOUS GAME 7s where he shoot 30% and call him clutch.
@@cnoteda1and0nlyThis is why I know you hate Chill because that dude has said multiple times that he doesn't think Kobe has a definitive year that he was the best. Probably the root of this discussion as well. lol.
@@reimeralgabre2986 Idgaf about him enough to hate him lol. But your reading comprehension is shit because I didn’t deny him saying Kobe doesn’t have a definitive year.
The disrespect Kobe gets is sad man. For anybody who was actually watching basketball at that time to say Kobe was NEVER definitively the best player in the league just clearly doesn’t like Kobe. Wade had an amazing run in 06, he WAS NOT a better player than Kobe. Dirk was a monster in 07. He WAS NOT a better player than Kobe.
@ I agree with you. In those two years I didn’t see a player that was better at playing the game of basketball than Kobe Bryant. On both sides of the ball.
@ who though? 06 Wade was legendary. He wasn’t the scorer or defender Kobe was. 07 Dirk was a problem. He was never a good defender (no knock or disrespect). Are there any other players in those two years to consider?
Here we go crashing out over Tim Duncan who was the best player in years like 2002, 2003 (hands down) and either 1999 or 2005 depending on how you view him… 2003 was definitely TIM DUNCAN’s year
I dont think it was definitive,the postseason run was atg but i dont think that means theres no discussion to be had ab who the best is/was. and i definitely dont agree in 99 or 05
Marz is right. In 06-08 everyone know Kobe was the best in the world. As a matter of fact, they asked NBA players during that time and majority said Kobe.
@ “commonly wrong” is a stretch, and using McCants is laughable. I was alive, witnessed it, and was watching the NBA regularly. Dirk was nice, LeBron was phenomenal, Duncan was great, Nash was at his peak, and DWade was balling….but it was undeniable at that time Kobe was the best in the world.
@@RicRugerFlare Buddy you used NBA players’ opinions as fact. Yes NBA players are commonly wrong, there’s a lot of young players in the league today that don’t know how many teams there are in the league. I am not making that up brother they interviewed an entire draft class and a super majority didn’t know how many teams there are and I gotta take the words as gospel?
@@ubereats3047 what year did Kobe drop 81pts? What did he score more points than the opposing team in 3quarters? What year did he win MVP? It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about. Move along little boy.
There was never a time where Dirk was better than Kobe. From 2006-10 Kobe was the best player in the league definitively 06-09 and I would say 2010 he was the best player on the league but lebron was clearly in the conversation. 2011-18 Lebron was the definitive best player in the league definitively
No it’s been bron sense 2009-2020 to keep it real and Kobe was never the definitively better bron in 2009 was better than Kobe in 2009 and 2008 bron and Kobe was around the same level and then bron leap frog him in 2009.2004 and 2005 kg was the best.bron 2009-2020.think about bron in 2008 took the Celtic in 7 with less help than Kobe and drop 45 while Kobe went out sad 2009-2020 and 2008 is arguably and 2006 wade was crazy dominant in the playoffs so it wade and he played with a old ass and banged up shaq. so 2007 was Kobe some what best player in the league without argument and dirk was their and bron carried his team to the finals. And 2019 he was playing like 2018 bron again just got hurt he was still better than khawi and bron showed it in 2020
@@penkima4923I would say bron is better but you taking it too far Paul gasol is better no but bron was better in both 2009 and 2010 and 2008 bron and Kobe was equal and 2006 wade was crazy dominant 2007 was hi only argument of being the best definitively but bron took his team to the final and dirk
MVP is an opinion award, you don't compete for those... Voted upon No matter who wins, there's always going to be someone that feels that person shouldn't have won
2003-2005 Timmy D was the best player in the NBA. And as a Dallas resident who saw Dirk up close, he was NOT better thsn Kobe in 2007. 06-2010 Kobe imo was the best player in the league with it being debatable between him and bron starting in 2009. But from 06-08 it was definitively Kobe Bean.
I’m not gonna lie swipa is just objectively lying about Giannis. Every regular season since he won the two mvps have been comparative to those seasons if not a little better. The only thing statistically that dropped significantly was his rebounding when he went from 13 to basically 12. He’s been just efficient he’s been a very good defensive player. The playmaking has gotten better. Swipa is just pushing his jokic propaganda
2000 - 2002 it was shaq who was the best player 2003 it was Tim Duncan 2004 It was Obviously KG 2005 It was Duncan again And from 2006-2011 it was Kobe There that should help
How can Kobe who didn't even make the playoffs be the best? don't say his team is bad, because Duncan can carry a bad team to become a top seed + championship.
If 03-05 Duncan doesn't count as being "definitively" the best then neither does 06-08 Kobe, plain and simple, Kobe fans disrespect every other player to boost up their guy and then cry about it when the same logic gets applied to them, most sensitive fanbase of all time (including Marz).
And here you are crying about it. Kobe fans just not letting some bs be said and when they argue it, now they are crying lol maybe you just don’t know ball and don’t understand why they defend the bad takes so much
Once again RUclipsrs YouTubing and not knowing. Duncan for his first 8 years in the league finished in front of Kobe for mvp votes. Both of Duncan mvp years he outplayed Shaq in the playoffs and when they went up against each other. Has more defensive first teams than anyone that you can compare him to, Shaq doesn’t even have a defensive 1st team Duncan has 8. A lot of great players played during Duncan prime but Duncan was clearly a top 2 player for about 6 years strong. 02-05 Duncan was the best player in the nba definitely 03
Kobe was the definitive best player in the world from 05-11. Nobody thought Bron was better than Kobe in 09, or 10. The narrative was Bron couldn't get it done. He was choking in the playoffs. You can tell some of these cats weren't watching basketball back then for real. A lot of the NBA players had Kobe as the best player prior to 05 including his teammate Shaq.
Kobe literally led the league in scoring and made 1st team all defense 05-06 and 06-07. Then he won MVP 07-08 and went to the finals and showed them scrubs how to win a gold medal. Then in 09 and 10 he won the champ without a top 75 player. He won with less than Mike, Magic, Bron, Bird, Steph, and KD.
@@hardwoodthought1213is this a talking point, Pau was averaging 18 and been an all starr one. Bron 3rd option was averaging 24 and 13 the only stat line of its type before teaming up with Bron.
@@Don-RoyallGood stats on bad teams. Love and Bosh combined to make the playoffs ONCE without LBJ when they were their teams best player. Pau in the stacked West made the playoffs 3 straight years as that, and was All-NBA YEARS after he played with Kobe. Try again
Kobe is beloved by many even before him passing away. He’s lowkey the epitome of a hooper . I think players like melo and bron are more hated than Kobe nd I’m not even a Kobe fan .
I’m so tired of swipa’s clear bias for Jokic and lebron 33:54 and against Giannis and Kobe, he give bron the narrative as to why he’s the bitw regardless of regular season on the back half of the 2010’s but wants to argue down dirk being better than Kobe in 07knowing the narrative was that Kobe was the bitw regardless of regular season output or MVP standings, the guy is a clown
uhh I think Lebron having the narrative of being the best regardless of outcome had a lot to do with him living in the finals for 10 years. Kobe barely made the playoffs if at all when Dirk went to the finals in 06’. The benefit of the doubt is mot the same.
@@Mike-xh1qythe hate for Kobe is ridiculous. Swipa then said what Kobe did was all regular season stuff when he averaged 30/6/5 on 48/38/83 splits on 57% true shooting when combining the 2006 and 2007 postseason.
A ton of people considered Dirk a soft European and a choke artist in the 2000's. He was never considered the best player in the world. 2011 really helped his reputation.
Asking a question and laughing at the same time makes you look foolish. Dirk received more MVP votes in both of those seasons, and deservedly so. It's a debate between them.
@@penkima4923 I don’t give a fuck about them MVP awards I was alive and watched them at the time NOBODY ever referred to Dirk as the best player in the league
@@jason15212 2005 def yes… Kobe wasn’t even 1st all nba that year… 2007 no… Kobe wasn’t better… that was the year Dirk won mvp but had an embarrassing 1st round exit
@ Kobe missed 20 games do you injury, the team sucked, and they went through like 3 coaches in one season. Wade was not better than Kobe in his 2nd season in the NBA that’s why he wasn’t 1st team all NBA (neither was wade).Iverson and Ray Allen weren’t better than Kobe just because they made the higher All NBA teams that year because of the context around the situation. Yal can keep trying to rewrite history tho. Dirk was never better at basketball than Kobe Bryant him winning an MVP doesn’t mean anything. Just like Nash winning back to back doesn’t mean he was the best player in the league
@@cheff.marshal2496 Prime Shaq’s defense still doesn’t have any argument over Duncan’s defense… even Prime Duncan’s scoring also doesn’t have any argument over Shaq…
There has not been a season where Joel Embiid was better than Giannis if we are adding The Playoffs and the Regular season. If we are going off of MVP’s and Votes than Steve Nash was better than Kobe all of his MVP years ago
@ How did Embiid play in the playoffs in his own MVP year it was nothing special, He’s not a playoff riser he’s not a top 5 Guy people make him to be, to never have made it past the second round with stacked rosters and then being the MVP of the league and doing nothing with that is almost disgraceful
The regular season cool he can be top 10-5 but he’s never been realistically seen as the best and damn sure not definitive best player in the league that’s never been a thing not 1 time in the past 5 years has he been the best center in basketball
After Shaq it was Duncan possibly then it went Kobe then LeBron. Before Shaq was MJ then Magic and bird then Kareem then wilt, Russell, west, Elgin, Oscar whoever. The 50s and 60s was wild. Now it’s Jokic definitively and of course you have your sprinkle of players who made it a convo.
Bird, magic, jordan, Hakeem, Jordan, shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, lebron, gainnis, Jokic Kobe was the best player for a very short time. That’s why he only has 1 mvp. Nobody hates Kobe but people overrate him and when you tell the truth, people call you a hater.
The issue is you can't say definitive and then pick and choose the criteria to fit your narrative, if Duncan was never definitively the best player Kobe was never definitively the best player, plain and simple. Also I find it hilarious that Kobe fans are so delusional that they decide that people saying Duncan wasn't definitively the best is completely fine but when people say Kobe wasn't definitively the best it's disrespect and blasphemy, they were the same caliber of player Kobe just had a more aesthetically pleasing game.
lebron has been definitively the best since 2006 EASILY. the numbers, accolades, and playoff runs prove it, young lebron gets underrated so much simply because he didnt win a ring carrying a trash team lmao
Definitely not, Kobe went 11-1 against 50+ win teams in the playoffs 08-10, averaging 30 in the toughest defensive era. 2 finals MVP’s and an MVP to show for it.
@@prestonkelly482550 win teams means nothing when you have a superteam. The lakers were expected to win. There was no upsets. That’s nothing to brag about like they were beating 73-9 teams
@@prestonkelly4825 pau wasnt just a fringe allstar are u fking serious? i thought bron fans were the worst but kobes fanbase have become the most disrespectful non truthful sports fans on earth since he passed lmao
Lebrons peak started in Miami. Y’all tripping saying Lebron was definitely better than Kobe when Lebron lost that year to the team Kobe beat in the finals
@ from when MJ retired, I’d probably go Shaq until 2002, Duncan/Kobe in 2003, KG in 2004, 2005 another toss up but probably Duncan. This is all off the top of my head so one day I’ll def dig into the numbers more and more of what the convo was around the time.
@@Steelo832 Agree with everything apart from Kobe in 03. Duncan cemented himself quite comfortable as the best player that season, with both an MVP and arguably the greatest title run/carry job ever.
@@hardwoodthought1213 Kobe’s 2003 was amazing and he did a good job of carrying when Shaq was out. The playoffs tho and Duncan’s run overall that year I get him being the guy. So I don’t have a problem with that.
@@delshawngee9732 everyone ? I had Kobe 5th but 3rd is a REACH… it was always Lebron MJ Kareem and outside between the 4-10 spots was a mix of Magic/Duncan/Kobe/Bill/Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem in those 2016-2020 years of nba debates
@ good for you👍🏽 but your personal opinion truly doesn’t matter in the conversation of being definitively the best. It’s the masses. If there was a poll or multiple publications (espn, SI, bleacher report, etc.) and he didn’t get above 80% or not all the publication rankings put him 1, then he wasn’t definitive. You are probably in the minority like chill
These guys must be on drugs saying Dirk was a better player than Kobe Bryant. Please tell me when Dirk Nowitzki didn't have a great deep roster around him. Early in his career he had Steve Nash (who all y'all glaze the hell out of) and Michael Finley. Those Dallas teams were stacked from top to bottom. Kobe Bryant had to play 1 vs 5 until Pau Gasol got there. All he needed was just one other all star and the Lakers were a title contender. Dirk was a great scorer and a mismatch nightmare for any team. But Kobe was at another level. Y'all can hate him all you want but its the truth
@@ubereats3047 What does that mean? He still had a hell of a supporting cast. Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, Caron Butler, Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion, Peja Stojakovic... All guys who were no longer stars but still very effective. Sometimes a deep squad makes up for another star player. Y'all just talk
@ Kobe had a deep cast AND an all star teammate. Mind you we can really get nasty and end the discussion by bringing up Shaq but even the repeat squad was better than Dirk’s and Dirk fried that Lakers team trying to get the 3peat. Gasol, Bynum, Metta, Odom, Fisher isn’t a deep team? All of those guys were much better and in their prime/a few years from exiting their prime. Peja was in his last year and did not contribute much. J Kidd was serviceable but 38 years old. Caron Butler did not play in the playoffs he was unfortunately hurt. So we’re left with Jason Terry and Chandler who played good especially Jet in the playoffs but they are still not as good as Pau Gasol especially not 2010 finals Pau. Nobody on that lakers team was over the age of 31 besides Fisher.
@ubereats3047 If we're talking about 2011 when the Mavs swept the Lakers then sure I'll give you that. This was the beginning of Kobe's decline. His knees were shot which is why he went to get surgery in Germany the following year. It was downhill from there. I was mainly referring to the original argument the panel was having about Kobe Bryant at no point being the best player in the league. Which is a flat-out lie. Then Chill tried to say Dirk was better than Kobe at some point between 2005-2008 which is an even bigger lie. Yes, Kobe had Shaq for the 1st 3 championships but there were plenty of series where the Lakers wouldn't have won if Kobe hadn't established himself as the player on the court. Just like Shaq saved Kobe, Kobe saved Shaq. It was a 1A 1B situation. When Shaq left in the 2005 season who did Kobe have? I'll wait... He then carries a bum Lakers squad to the playoffs and 7 games against the best offense in the NBA. When Kobe did have a good supporting cast he delivered more often than not. Dirk always had a good team around him. Those Dallas rosters were always stacked 8-9 guys deep. That was a commodity during that time and with that said let's not act like Dirk didn't have a fair share of shortcomings. Besides 2006 most were early-round playoff exits including 2007 where they got upsetted by the 8th seed Warriors after having the best regular season record. And let's be real if LeBron didn't have the biggest superstar meltdown in Finals history Dallas may not have won it in 2011 considering the Heat were up 2-1 in the series. Point is peak for peak Kobe was better. Period
Revisionist history. Everyone at the time knew Kobe was the best and playoff performance alone don't make you better overall, Jimmy Butler. We all knew when Kobe got a team it was a wrap cuz he was the best player.
Tim duncan was that guy that we all used to say was a hall of fame player but underrated. Something happened after he retired when we started acting like 18 8 average is better than Shaq and Kobe. Dude wasn't even the best player on his own team for half his career Wow just got to the part where Dirk was the best player in 06-07. These guys wouldn't be allowed to speak on baskwtball of they were saying this back in 06/07. In that time, Kobe was being compared to MJ and people where literally split on that discussion on that time. And these dudes over talking about Dirk and Dwade lol. Btw kobe scored 62 in 3 quarters against that team. Gosh I must be getting old, people be rewriting history in front of my eyes!
Tim duncan is the greatest power forward ever......do you think giannis will surpass him one day as the greatest power forward......... as we speak he bout to add another accomplishment to his collection
“Dude wasn’t even the best player on his own team for half his career.” Tim was the unquestioned best player on the spurs for the majority of his career. This revisionist history is hilarious
@ThePhenom10805 Try to prove me wrong. from 2006/2007 onwards he was not the best player on his team. Statistically speaking and usage speaking. Tony Parker had more usage and manu had the ball in the 4th lol. This is the reason no one talked about Tim Duncan while he was playing which led to the storyline that he was underrated.
@@MrOmabeastif your argument is going to be based on usage and just stats then you’ve already flopped on your take because Tim’s greatest value to the spurs was always his defense which is minimized in the stats you’re choosing to use. You can tell me about Manu and Tony’s roles increasing offensively but Tim continued to be a major offensive contributor but you’ll never be able to make a case for either one of them being remotely close to Tim in terms of impacting the game on the defensive end. Oh and the 06/07 season, tim was clearly their best player. Wasn’t even debatable, some of y’all got fooled by Tony’s fmvp and just somehow forgot that the finals was only 4 games out the spurs season
Tim Duncan is a typical leader & team player who doesn't break the system. So he rarely records big stats. But when needed, he clearly could carry the team alone, like in the 2003 playoffs - per 28.4 (league no.2) - dws 2.67 (league no.1 / all time no.3) - vorp 3.15 (league no.1 / all time no.2) - ws 5.94 (league no.1 / all time no.1) - stats per 100 posts basically 30+20+5+5 - basic stats 25+15+5+3
OG Buggin’!!! Tim Duncan was NEVER the hands down best player in the NBA in ANY year. Nobody has ever said that nor even debated that during any year Tim Duncan ever played.
@@KwizMatix 2003 hands down was TIM DUNCAN’s year… Championship Finals MVP MVP 1st Team Did all that without a single teammate who made the All-Stars that season
@@MOCskodennah Tim Duncan wasn't even the best player on his team Greg Popovich said it was Manu Greg's system made Duncan look better than he was because Greg said in 2003 Manu could average 25 points a game anywhere but he's playing the role I ask him to play
@ nah Tim Duncan was the best player on his team back in 2003, Greg has always stated he couldn’t have a coaching career without Duncan and that year being a champion, mvp, Fmvp, and 1st team says otherwise… Manu wasn’t even anywhere near averaging 25 in the 2002-03 szn, lol we making hypotheticals/opinions instead of talking facts
@@malikwilson7387You mean Manu who in 2003 averaged 7 PPG on 40% shooting? LMFAO Pop also never said that. What he actually said when asked why he was so successful was quote “I drafted Tim Duncan and I didn’t die”. Duncan won basically 2 titles with Manu either not playing or playing horrible. When did Manu win anything without an All-NBA Duncan by his side? Try again Bozo
I don’t get how Kobe could possibly be better than Duncan when Kobe missed the playoffs in his prime for the 05 playoffs, then lost a 3-1 lead in the first round of the 06 playoffs and then lost in 5 games in the first round in the 07 playoffs
In addition, he returned USA basketball back to prominence by leading the Redeem Team to a Gold Medal while defending the opposing countries best wing player 94 feet each game. Coach K said he was the best player. He brought that mentality the USA blue vs white game when he hit the game winner over Tayshaun Prince then defended Lebron on the other end in the last possession. A shot that Lebron ended up missing.
Im glad they brought this up, because people tend to have Duncan over Hakeem in their top 10 and I'm just curious as to why. Hakeem is regarded as the better player both offensively and defensively, but he's either in the bottom of people's top 10 or missing completely.
@MarzTalksSports I understand that logic completely. So now I'm wondering if there should there be a greatness (accolades) vs best (overall ability) conversation. I get sometimes they can lead to the same place, but if a player's accolades/career measures out greater, does that mean he's overall better or should he placed higher than someone else.
@@benjaminan1183 I get that 100%. If you favor rings more, that's fine. I'm just curious because I think Hakeem could be just as successful on those Spurs team. Idk I guess it depends on your preference.
Not sure about the states but growing up in late 90s and early 00s in Europe, was not even a debate who was considered a better individual player between Tim Duncan and Kobe
In 2005 Shaq was dominant in his first season with the Miami Heat, averaging 22.9 points, 10.4 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks per game. He was the most physically dominant force in the league and led the Heat to a 59-23 record, finishing second in MVP voting. Shaq should of won the mvp that year but they give it to Nash
In 2005 Nash was also dominating in his first season with the Phoenix Suns, averaging 15.5 points 11.5 assists (led league) 3.3 rebounds and shot a near 50/40/90 that season, one of the best TS% in the season. He was the most offensive impact players as also one the best playmakers of all time in the league and led the Suns to a 62-20 record (best record in the toughest conference), the Suns were much worse w/ Nash off the team… and grabbed a MVP. Tall players like KG & Dirk even had better individual stats than Shaq in 2005. KG: 22/13/5.7/1.5 57 TS% Dirk: 26/10/3/2.3 58 TS% Shaq: 23/10/2.7/2.3 58 TS%
In the 2002-2003 NBA season, Shaquille O’Neal played for the Los Angeles Lakers and continued to be one of the most dominant players in the league. Here are his key stats for that season: •Games Played: 67 •Points Per Game (PPG): 27.5 •Rebounds Per Game (RPG): 11.1 • Assists Per Game (APG): 3.1 • Blocks Per Game (BPG): 2.4 •Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 57.4% •Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 62.2%
LeBron Really Been The Best Player In The League Since 2006 To 2018. Yea You Had Guys Like Kobe, KD, Russ, Steph, And Harden But LeBron Was The All Around Phenom Of Those Years, Rings, MVPs, Finals Appearance, Playoff Performances And Game Winners He Was Top Dog Those Years. After 2018 Greek Freak, And Jokic Stepped In.. And LeBron Kinda Stepped Back In After Injury The Following Season Winning The Chip.
Can we stop trying to rewrite history lol majority of the basketball world did not believe LeBron was the best player in the world pre 2010. 09 was the first year it was a real discussion.
@LAsOwn What LeBron Did In 06.. Nobody Was Vibing Like That With That Cavs Roster. You Don't Gotta Get Voted MVP Every Year To Be The Best All Round Player.
No he wasn't it was tim Duncan n Kobe 03-12 as seen as the best player they always had the best ovrl in NBA games as well they used to say Kobe was best player to play basketball as well y'all trying rewrite history is jus showing y'all age or bias
Shaq was definitively the best guy until Duncan took over in 03, then Kobe took over in 06, then it was LeBron from 2012-21 (personally I think Bron took over as the best in 09 but it's very debatable)
The talk over rings needs to be thrown out the window when Jordan is mentioned because Duncan is as responsible for his total amount as is Kobe, Jordan and any other superstar for their respective team(s). He was the “Jordan” for his Spurs.
Bird83-86, magic 86-88,Jordan 88-93,Hakeem 93-95, Jordan95-98,Shaq 98-02,Duncan02- 03, KG 03-04, Kobe 05-8, Bron 09-18,Steph 19 and 21,Giannis 21-22,Jokic 22-present, Not gone say who I got in 20 😂😂😂😂
No it’s been bron sense 2009-2020 to keep it real and Kobe was never the definitively better bron in 2009 was better than Kobe in 2009 and 2008 bron and Kobe was around the same level and then bron leap frog him in 2009.2004 and 2005 kg was the best.bron 2009-2020.think about bron in 2008 took the Celtic in 7 with less help than Kobe and drop 45 while Kobe went out sad 2009-2020 and 2008 is arguably and 2006 wade was crazy dominant in the playoffs so it wade and he played with a old ass and banged up shaq. so 2007 was Kobe what some what best player in the league without argument and dirk was their and bron carried his team to the finals
Kobe 2001 WCF vs Spurs 33.3 points 7.0 rebounds 7.0 assists Kobe 2002 WCSF vs Spurs 26.2 points 5.4 rebounds 4.8 assists Kobe 2008 WCF vs Spurs 29.2 points 5.6 rebounds 3.8 assists This channel will say anything to slander Kobe. The 2000s era was Kobe and he was better than Tim Duncan, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, etc
Marz got a good point that most of the time there isn’t a one definitive best player. Mikan in the 40’s/50’s, Kareem in the 70’s, MJ in the 90’s, probably Bron early 2010’s. Even when Kobe was the best in the mid-late 00’s, Bron was behind him and you can make the argument for him.
Look at 2002. Duncan DOMINATED! 4-2 over Lakers and killed Shaq. 4-2 over Mavs and smoked Dirk. 4-2 over Nets with historic records in finals blocks and rebound. Also he was 1 block from a quad doubled in the last game. You guys are smoking something if you think Timmy didn't dominate. Dont forget he dominated Garrett his whole career! Top 4 player all time. If you dont know, now you know.
Dumbest question of all time. If 2003 Kobe Duncan & Shaq in Lebrons era there wouldn’t be a “definitive” best player. It’s literally dependent on who’s playing in “your” era. Hakeem was the “best player” because Jordan retired. Not because he was better than Kobe Jordan or Duncan. Everyone besides Ron & Marz sound brain dead.
Kobe getting a pass for that 06 series will always be crazy. That Suns team didn’t even have Amare. They were definitely beatable and Kobe flat out stopped being aggressive in game 7.
If Kobe kept shooting without the Lakers getting defensive stops which is exactly what happened in the 1st half of that game when the Lakers were down double digits how would they have won? The answer is they wouldn't. Only way you could beat the Suns is by getting stops defensively.
Get me on this show I will cook swipa for an hour straight Ong he disrespects Kobe and Giannis too much and there are hella inconsistencies in his arguments that yall don’t point out please I beg yall jus one appearance and swipa will lose all credibility
Bruh just the defensive awards alone put mine above the rest. 30 6 and 6 with first team all defense come on bruh. Dirk was amazing. NOBODY WAS BETTER THAN 06-07 KOBE.
@@lt45gs Right, and when MJ was getting dusted in round 1 he wasn’t the best player. MJ when losing as the leagues best player was competitive. Kobe was not.
dont think one excludes the other... being consistently top 3 in like 5 or 6 strainght seasons while winning mvps and finals mvps is better than peaking 1 year where youre definitively the best, but have no championships or mvps.
@@eddiecampbell9663Kobe and shaq both averaged 29 in 2000-01 and Kobe was by far and away the better defender and was the closer. I’d agree 01-11 was Kobe’s league
It's crazy to me that Jokic is this consensus best player in the league because he has 3 MVPS only one of which i believe is deserved but Duncan wasn't while having multiple titles by 05 and one of his best years smh.
![Making the Case - Tim Duncan [Revised & Reuploaded]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h-QQSn21nVo/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
You have no idea how good Tim Duncan was!
😭😭😭😭
Doesn't matter how good Duncan was... Kobe used to destroy him in the playoffs
@@dalidajokaThey didn't even matchup against each other
@@GODsoN_8471the teams played each other that’s usually what y’all go off now yall don’t ? 😂😂😂
@@dalidajokaKobe had Shaq period
I’m so tired of this revisionist history bullshit on these debates. NOBODY EVER had conversations about Wade or Dirk being better than Kobe at any point in time.
NEVER LMAOOO people done forgot who the mamba was Man I swear
That is not true. After the title they definerly was talks of wade being the best player in the league. It wasn’t a big group of people saying it but it did exist.
@ of course speaking the sense of majority there is always a small group of people saying something just like this idiotic take of Dirk being the best player exist.
@@TheIcemanthomaskeyword it was a veryyyy small minority but most and majority of people were not
False..wade was better than kobe in 09 10 and arguably 06 as well
I didn’t know 2006 was debatable. Majority of the media and players said Kobe
It’s not debatable people are just trying to rewrite history
@ I agree that dirk deserves his respect but let’s be serious
@@atribecalledlen3567straight up
@@atribecalledlen3567no when wade crushed the team that locked Kobe up with a prime shaq while dwade with a old and banged up shaq that wasn’t prime dominanted them so it definitely was a argument he beat the same team with lest help and dominated the finals
@@ChelloTheKilla it should be Kobe at the top in 2006 but the mvp race and postseason outcomes just make it more complicated for casuals fans, and I say this as a Non-Kobe Stan
In the 2002-2003 NBA season, Tim Duncan had an MVP-caliber year for the San Antonio Spurs, leading them to an NBA Championship. Here are his key stats for that season:
• Games Played: 81
• Points Per Game (PPG): 23.3
•Rebounds Per Game (RPG): 12.9
• Assists Per Game (APG): 3.9
• Blocks Per Game (BPG): 2.9
• Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 51.3%
• Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 71.0%
Playoffs:
In the 2003 NBA Playoffs, Duncan elevated his performance, averaging:
• Points Per Game: 24.7
• Rebounds Per Game: 15.4
• Assists Per Game: 5.3
• Blocks Per Game: 3.3
Tim Duncan’s dominance culminated in him being named the NBA Finals MVP as he led the Spurs to victory over the New Jersey Nets. His incredible two-way play and consistency solidified his status as the best player in the league that year.
Damn Tim was better in 2003
Garnett might clear bro avg more points, ast, and reb in the playoffs and reg season on similar efficency just had a terrible team around him
This ChatGPT ass response
He also had zero restrictions so his numbers could be more inflated compared to Duncan in an actual system and playing next to robinson
@@TheIcemanthomas that maybe true as well, that's why I said garnett "might" clear, but the advance stats like on/off box score and vorp favor garnett as well but it's still debatable in my opinion
The same year where kobe was putting up 30 and carrying the lakers without shaq when he was injured
The Kobe disrespect is insane
Ron was spot on when he said he’s the most hated superstar of all time. Everyone that didnt grow up a Kobe fan hates him with a passion it’s the weirdest shit.
That's all this channel does. Constantly disrespect Steph & Kobe.
@@LakeShow-2481they all Bron Stan's.
Y'all overrate him
@@YoungShadTv in your opinion. and in my opinion yall disrespect him. we both do our part to bring balance to nba debates that ultimately go nowhere
Swipa kept saying to Marz to not bring up narratives and media talk yet continued to bring up mvp votes which is very much made of media talk and narratives
Literally. When tf have PC *EVER* conflated best player in the world with MVP????
this shit is getting out of hand, NO ONE was saying dirk was better than kobe
The MVP voters said Dirk was better for multiple seasons.
@@jays in 2004-05 and 2010-11 season, Dirk was absolutely a better player than Kobe Bryant
@@MOCskoden U high as hell
@@penkima4923 good thing the best player doesn't always win the MVP. embiid has never been better than jokic a day in his life and if i remember correctly, jordan or james did not win the MVP every year they were clearly the best.
i could care less about MVP voting, you should rely on who YOU think is better not a panel of voters that change every 10 years who have their own biases & agendas.
The logic is dumb because sometimes you peak at the same time other players peaked.
if I peak during Lebrons Era, that doesnt mean i cant be top 10 all time. It jsut means there was a better top ten player playing at the same time as me lol
Facts
The logic in that statement is so…. Logical 😂
Kobe
- Beat the most 50+ win teams in NBA history; eliminated a record 24 50 win teams vs Lebrons ~11, which is less than half.
- Second most points scored in a single game NBA history, First most in the modern era.
- Oldest player to score 60+
- 3rd most consecutive 50+ point games in NBA history
- 2nd most All-NBA First Team honors won (tied with Malone)
- Most All-NBA Team honors won by a guard
- Most All-NBA First Team honors won by a guard
- 2nd most All-Defensive Team honors won
- Most All-Defensive First Team honors won (tied with Mike, GP, KG)
- Only player in NBA history to score at least 600 points in the postseason for three consecutive years
- Oldest player to record back-to-back games of 40+ points and 10+ assists
- Carried Olympic team to a gold medal
- 5x NBA Champion on a three-peat
- Dragged a squad with no other superstar/top 75 to repeat
- 2x Finals MVP
- 1x MVP
- 2x Scoring Champ
- 9x All-Defense First
- 3x All-NBA Second
- 18x NBA All Star
Kobe is also 1 of only 6 players to win back-to-back Finals MVP (2peat). Kobe did this in one of the most competitive conference in history.
He did all that and scored 35.1ppg on a team that only averaged 96ppg as a team and he did so in the slowest paced era and lowest scoring era in league history.
On the list of highest 2nd half PPG in the playoffs from 89-2023, Kobe is on that list 3x. Averaged 17.3 in 01 (more than Shaq), 18.3 in 03, 17.3 in 08.
Why yall kobe fans bringing up team accomplishments when Kobe was literally trash before Pau Gasol came there? There's even a case gasol should be finals mvp in 2010 but yall kobe fans will ignore his HORRENDOUS GAME 7s where he shoot 30% and call him clutch.
😂😂@@user-gc1wj8tt2p
@user-gc1wj8tt2p Yeah it's absolutely an argument for it. Kobe was beat up in that finals
@@user-gc1wj8tt2pyou said team accomplishments then bring up pau gasol? Most these accolades is player based
@@user-gc1wj8tt2pnigga brung up one game in a 7 game series aye bruh go kick rocks
This is why Chill is labeled a Kobe hater. He has never said Dirk was better than Kobe but now that someone else has, he jumps on that train lol.
He’s said it many times b4
@ “Many times” 🧢
@@cnoteda1and0nlyThis is why I know you hate Chill because that dude has said multiple times that he doesn't think Kobe has a definitive year that he was the best. Probably the root of this discussion as well. lol.
@@reimeralgabre2986 Idgaf about him enough to hate him lol. But your reading comprehension is shit because I didn’t deny him saying Kobe doesn’t have a definitive year.
lol he hates kobe fr, i remember him saying kobe isnt a top 5 laker lol
The disrespect Kobe gets is sad man. For anybody who was actually watching basketball at that time to say Kobe was NEVER definitively the best player in the league just clearly doesn’t like Kobe. Wade had an amazing run in 06, he WAS NOT a better player than Kobe. Dirk was a monster in 07. He WAS NOT a better player than Kobe.
Just because you’re the most popular/influential player in the league doesn’t mean you’re the best.
Love kobe but it wasn't sealed....the others had arguments even if I would take kobe
@ I agree with you. In those two years I didn’t see a player that was better at playing the game of basketball than Kobe Bryant. On both sides of the ball.
05 - 11 I got Kobe ‼️‼️‼️
@ who though? 06 Wade was legendary. He wasn’t the scorer or defender Kobe was. 07 Dirk was a problem. He was never a good defender (no knock or disrespect). Are there any other players in those two years to consider?
Here we go crashing out over Tim Duncan who was the best player in years like 2002, 2003 (hands down) and either 1999 or 2005 depending on how you view him… 2003 was definitely TIM DUNCAN’s year
Facts they tweaking
BIG FACTS
For sure 2003!! Everyone always mentions that year for Duncan’s peak 😂
I dont think it was definitive,the postseason run was atg but i dont think that means theres no discussion to be had ab who the best is/was. and i definitely dont agree in 99 or 05
@MarzTalksSportsI think 02-04 he was the best
Marz is right. In 06-08 everyone know Kobe was the best in the world. As a matter of fact, they asked NBA players during that time and majority said Kobe.
NBA players are commonly wrong. Watch 5 minutes of Rashad Mccants and tell me he knows what he’s talking about lol
@ “commonly wrong” is a stretch, and using McCants is laughable. I was alive, witnessed it, and was watching the NBA regularly. Dirk was nice, LeBron was phenomenal, Duncan was great, Nash was at his peak, and DWade was balling….but it was undeniable at that time Kobe was the best in the world.
@@RicRugerFlare Buddy you used NBA players’ opinions as fact. Yes NBA players are commonly wrong, there’s a lot of young players in the league today that don’t know how many teams there are in the league. I am not making that up brother they interviewed an entire draft class and a super majority didn’t know how many teams there are and I gotta take the words as gospel?
@@ubereats3047 what year did Kobe drop 81pts? What did he score more points than the opposing team in 3quarters? What year did he win MVP? It’s obvious you don’t know what you’re talking about. Move along little boy.
You should really choose wisely on using NBA players opinions because a lot of them have said outrageous stuff especially the older guys. lmao.
Kobe was the best player this panel lost their dam mind.😂😂😂
No they know basketball you don't
@frandonfrank10 lmao 🤣 😂 sure 😂
@@jaybowman696 unlike you did not all in their feelings, because your feelings don't matter
@frandonfrank10 lol WTF feelings haha
The Kobe hate is unnecessary. I’m convinced Players Choice just hates Kobe as a staff record label and crew
The truth ain’t hate
@ I don’t entertain stupidity
See how people rewrite history. If you telling it wasn't a debate with KG and Duncan in 03 is nuts
Yup. You can tell who was there and who wasn’t
Duncan played better when it mattered
@ I 100 percent agree. But there were debates back then
@@YoungShadTvnah his team was better he didn’t play better family
@@RandyTheFittestHe did play better goofy…what have the Spurs done since Duncan left? Since they were that good lol
There was never a time where Dirk was better than Kobe. From 2006-10 Kobe was the best player in the league definitively 06-09 and I would say 2010 he was the best player on the league but lebron was clearly in the conversation. 2011-18 Lebron was the definitive best player in the league definitively
No it’s been bron sense 2009-2020 to keep it real and Kobe was never the definitively better bron in 2009 was better than Kobe in 2009 and 2008 bron and Kobe was around the same level and then bron leap frog him in 2009.2004 and 2005 kg was the best.bron 2009-2020.think about bron in 2008 took the Celtic in 7 with less help than Kobe and drop 45 while Kobe went out sad 2009-2020 and 2008 is arguably and 2006 wade was crazy dominant in the playoffs so it wade and he played with a old ass and banged up shaq. so 2007 was Kobe some what best player in the league without argument and dirk was their and bron carried his team to the finals. And 2019 he was playing like 2018 bron again just got hurt he was still better than khawi and bron showed it in 2020
Kobe wasn't the best player on his own team in 2010, so Kobe probably wasn't the best player in the league.
Dirk carried a team to the finals and followed that up with an incredible MVP season. Stop trying to bring down Dirk of all people
@ Kobe wasn’t the best player on the lakers in 2010???! Dog wtf are you talking about?
@@penkima4923I would say bron is better but you taking it too far Paul gasol is better no but bron was better in both 2009 and 2010 and 2008 bron and Kobe was equal and 2006 wade was crazy dominant 2007 was hi only argument of being the best definitively but bron took his team to the final and dirk
People complaining about Kobe being forgotten about this era but they forgetting Duncan, Wade and Dirk during this era too.
Kobe scored 81 and was a first team defensive selection, outscored the mavs by himself through three quarters. Mfs is tweaking
They played the raptors for the 81 game, if that’s what your saying.
Kobe didn’t deserve 1st team all defense in 06. I can name 10 better guard defenders than him
@@Ebonyinvasionpart2in 06? Name the 10 guards
I’m tired of youngsters that wasn’t alive criticizing players they haven’t witnessed. If you are not least 40 how can you speak on the 80’s 😂
Man yall disrespect bean so much over here it’s sad
The truth hurts
From 00-06, Duncan was a 2-time mvp, a runner up twice, and 2 top 5 finishes. This isn’t even a conversation.
MVP is an opinion award, you don't compete for those... Voted upon
No matter who wins, there's always going to be someone that feels that person shouldn't have won
@ I mean we can get into a deep dive into the analytics, unless you’re allergic to math.
lol from 00-06, shaq was a 3 time Finals MVP. End of the conversation😂 fmvp>>>> regular season mvp
2003-2005 Timmy D was the best player in the NBA. And as a Dallas resident who saw Dirk up close, he was NOT better thsn Kobe in 2007. 06-2010 Kobe imo was the best player in the league with it being debatable between him and bron starting in 2009. But from 06-08 it was definitively Kobe Bean.
Duncan wasn’t better than KG in 04
@@atribecalledlen3567Bad opinion
KG imo was never better than Duncan
I’m not gonna lie swipa is just objectively lying about Giannis. Every regular season since he won the two mvps have been comparative to those seasons if not a little better. The only thing statistically that dropped significantly was his rebounding when he went from 13 to basically 12. He’s been just efficient he’s been a very good defensive player. The playmaking has gotten better. Swipa is just pushing his jokic propaganda
2000 - 2002 it was shaq who was the best player
2003 it was Tim Duncan
2004 It was Obviously KG
2005 It was Duncan again
And from 2006-2011 it was Kobe
There that should help
Kobe 05 - 09
Nah Kobe didnt become the best until 2008
@@hiphophead4891 I think 2011 was either LeBron or Dirk depending on how you rank players by accolades or pure impact/stats
How can Kobe who didn't even make the playoffs be the best? don't say his team is bad, because Duncan can carry a bad team to become a top seed + championship.
@@Abdul95Rachmanwhat bad team has Duncan ever been on lolol😂
Kobe had a game where he outscored “the best player in the league” and the rest of his team through 3 quarters 😂
Fair play, Kobe was at his best in meaningless games in January.
Why does he have only 11 40+ point playoff games?
🤣🤣🤣, Dirk over Kobe is a unhinged take.
If 03-05 Duncan doesn't count as being "definitively" the best then neither does 06-08 Kobe, plain and simple, Kobe fans disrespect every other player to boost up their guy and then cry about it when the same logic gets applied to them, most sensitive fanbase of all time (including Marz).
And here you are crying about it. Kobe fans just not letting some bs be said and when they argue it, now they are crying lol maybe you just don’t know ball and don’t understand why they defend the bad takes so much
Giannis didn’t have a fall off, there was voter fatigue is why he came in 3rd and everyone was trying to get Joel the MVP.
Joel played better
Once again RUclipsrs YouTubing and not knowing. Duncan for his first 8 years in the league finished in front of Kobe for mvp votes. Both of Duncan mvp years he outplayed Shaq in the playoffs and when they went up against each other. Has more defensive first teams than anyone that you can compare him to, Shaq doesn’t even have a defensive 1st team Duncan has 8. A lot of great players played during Duncan prime but Duncan was clearly a top 2 player for about 6 years strong. 02-05 Duncan was the best player in the nba definitely 03
Nailed it
Kobe was the definitive best player in the world from 05-11. Nobody thought Bron was better than Kobe in 09, or 10. The narrative was Bron couldn't get it done. He was choking in the playoffs. You can tell some of these cats weren't watching basketball back then for real. A lot of the NBA players had Kobe as the best player prior to 05 including his teammate Shaq.
Kobe literally led the league in scoring and made 1st team all defense 05-06 and 06-07. Then he won MVP 07-08 and went to the finals and showed them scrubs how to win a gold medal. Then in 09 and 10 he won the champ without a top 75 player. He won with less than Mike, Magic, Bron, Bird, Steph, and KD.
In 06 and 07 he didn’t win a playoff series. In 08 he got dusted in the finals, in 09 and 10 he had Pau who was All-NBA.
Try again
@@hardwoodthought1213is this a talking point, Pau was averaging 18 and been an all starr one.
Bron 3rd option was averaging 24 and 13 the only stat line of its type before teaming up with Bron.
@@Don-RoyallGood stats on bad teams. Love and Bosh combined to make the playoffs ONCE without LBJ when they were their teams best player.
Pau in the stacked West made the playoffs 3 straight years as that, and was All-NBA YEARS after he played with Kobe.
Try again
Kobe most hated on ever
* overrated
Kobe is beloved by many even before him passing away. He’s lowkey the epitome of a hooper . I think players like melo and bron are more hated than Kobe nd I’m not even a Kobe fan .
Kobe is easily the most dickrode player in history next to Mike, stop it
@@Lilstraightcashlies
@@Don-RoyallAllen Iverson is the most hated
2002-2003 two mvp seasons
2004-2005 ranked imo best player in the league
2006 top five
2007 top ten
I’m so tired of swipa’s clear bias for Jokic and lebron 33:54 and against Giannis and Kobe, he give bron the narrative as to why he’s the bitw regardless of regular season on the back half of the 2010’s but wants to argue down dirk being better than Kobe in 07knowing the narrative was that Kobe was the bitw regardless of regular season output or MVP standings, the guy is a clown
uhh I think Lebron having the narrative of being the best regardless of outcome had a lot to do with him living in the finals for 10 years. Kobe barely made the playoffs if at all when Dirk went to the finals in 06’. The benefit of the doubt is mot the same.
@ in 05-06 there was nobody with a chip and the pedigree to then also playing at Kobe’s level for it to be in question
@@Mike-xh1qythe hate for Kobe is ridiculous. Swipa then said what Kobe did was all regular season stuff when he averaged 30/6/5 on 48/38/83 splits on 57% true shooting when combining the 2006 and 2007 postseason.
A ton of people considered Dirk a soft European and a choke artist in the 2000's. He was never considered the best player in the world. 2011 really helped his reputation.
I’m getting really sick of this Kobe hate 🤬🤬🤬
2006 and 2007 Dirk better than Kobe ?😂😂😂😂😂
Asking a question and laughing at the same time makes you look foolish. Dirk received more MVP votes in both of those seasons, and deservedly so. It's a debate between them.
@@penkima4923 I don’t give a fuck about them MVP awards I was alive and watched them at the time NOBODY ever referred to Dirk as the best player in the league
@@jason15212 2005 def yes… Kobe wasn’t even 1st all nba that year… 2007 no… Kobe wasn’t better… that was the year Dirk won mvp but had an embarrassing 1st round exit
@ Kobe missed 20 games do you injury, the team sucked, and they went through like 3 coaches in one season. Wade was not better than Kobe in his 2nd season in the NBA that’s why he wasn’t 1st team all NBA (neither was wade).Iverson and Ray Allen weren’t better than Kobe just because they made the higher All NBA teams that year because of the context around the situation. Yal can keep trying to rewrite history tho. Dirk was never better at basketball than Kobe Bryant him winning an MVP doesn’t mean anything. Just like Nash winning back to back doesn’t mean he was the best player in the league
Kareem had seasons where he missed the playoffs n won mvps in the 70s but no one questions his dominance as the best player during that era
Duncan clears Shaq defensively
Prime Shaq? That's debatable
Prime Shaq???
Nah prime shaq and prime Duncan isn't a contest defensively. Tim did everything better on defense
@@cheff.marshal2496 Prime Shaq’s defense still doesn’t have any argument over Duncan’s defense… even Prime Duncan’s scoring also doesn’t have any argument over Shaq…
@cheff.marshal2496 not debatable at all
You can see the hate all over chill face when the say Kobe name
Swippa be trippin
There has not been a season where Joel Embiid was better than Giannis if we are adding The Playoffs and the Regular season. If we are going off of MVP’s and Votes than Steve Nash was better than Kobe all of his MVP years ago
To be fair Giannis only played like 2 playoff games during Embiid’s mvp year.
@ How did Embiid play in the playoffs in his own MVP year it was nothing special, He’s not a playoff riser he’s not a top 5 Guy people make him to be, to never have made it past the second round with stacked rosters and then being the MVP of the league and doing nothing with that is almost disgraceful
The regular season cool he can be top 10-5 but he’s never been realistically seen as the best and damn sure not definitive best player in the league that’s never been a thing not 1 time in the past 5 years has he been the best center in basketball
Kobe was clearly the best player of the 2000s decade.
The disrespect to Kobe and Duncan is crazy. Duncans competition come on man. And can we please look at those teams kobe had
After Shaq it was Duncan possibly then it went Kobe then LeBron. Before Shaq was MJ then Magic and bird then Kareem then wilt, Russell, west, Elgin, Oscar whoever. The 50s and 60s was wild. Now it’s Jokic definitively and of course you have your sprinkle of players who made it a convo.
Bird, magic, jordan, Hakeem, Jordan, shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, lebron, gainnis, Jokic
Kobe was the best player for a very short time. That’s why he only has 1 mvp. Nobody hates Kobe but people overrate him and when you tell the truth, people call you a hater.
What’s up, with all the Kobe disrespect nowadays
7:35 kobe DROPPED 50 though, what is bro smoking
And 08 happened like wtf😂 clearly it was 08 he was definitive but I would stretch that out to 06-08
1:50 But chill will tell he thought James was above Bryant when he won MVP and a championship the 2 following seasons
The issue is you can't say definitive and then pick and choose the criteria to fit your narrative, if Duncan was never definitively the best player Kobe was never definitively the best player, plain and simple. Also I find it hilarious that Kobe fans are so delusional that they decide that people saying Duncan wasn't definitively the best is completely fine but when people say Kobe wasn't definitively the best it's disrespect and blasphemy, they were the same caliber of player Kobe just had a more aesthetically pleasing game.
I love when everybody talks over each other. I can understand everything everybody is saying. Its actually a talent I didn’t know I possessed
lebron has been definitively the best since 2006 EASILY. the numbers, accolades, and playoff runs prove it, young lebron gets underrated so much simply because he didnt win a ring carrying a trash team lmao
Definitely not, Kobe went 11-1 against 50+ win teams in the playoffs 08-10, averaging 30 in the toughest defensive era. 2 finals MVP’s and an MVP to show for it.
@@prestonkelly482550 win teams means nothing when you have a superteam. The lakers were expected to win. There was no upsets. That’s nothing to brag about like they were beating 73-9 teams
@ A SUPERTEAM???? BECAUSE THEY GOT PAU GASOL THEY WERE A SUPERTEAM 🤣🤣🤣
@@joejett5084 if having a fringe all star on ur roster is a superteam, why didn’t Lebron win with his superteam in 07?
@@prestonkelly4825 pau wasnt just a fringe allstar are u fking serious? i thought bron fans were the worst but kobes fanbase have become the most disrespectful non truthful sports fans on earth since he passed lmao
Lebrons peak started in Miami. Y’all tripping saying Lebron was definitely better than Kobe when Lebron lost that year to the team Kobe beat in the finals
His prime was 2012-18 IMO
@ facts. It’s Miami til the end of that second stint in Cleveland. That’s the only non bias answer
All that said, I got Kobe from 2006-2010 and Bron made it a real conversation but Kobe’s entire body of work esp from 2008-2010 give him the edge.
Who you have from 98-06?
@ from when MJ retired, I’d probably go Shaq until 2002, Duncan/Kobe in 2003, KG in 2004, 2005 another toss up but probably Duncan. This is all off the top of my head so one day I’ll def dig into the numbers more and more of what the convo was around the time.
@@Steelo832 Agree with everything apart from Kobe in 03. Duncan cemented himself quite comfortable as the best player that season, with both an MVP and arguably the greatest title run/carry job ever.
@@hardwoodthought1213 Kobe’s 2003 was amazing and he did a good job of carrying when Shaq was out. The playoffs tho and Duncan’s run overall that year I get him being the guy. So I don’t have a problem with that.
Swipa is just a jokic fanboy
Arguing Dirk over Kobe any yr is madness
Bro… everyone had Kobe in their top 3 but now he’s not top 10? Where did the switch up come from? This is saddening 🤦🏾♂️
Shii not me. Kobe top 3 is criminal imo
@@BLEgoist10yeah top 3 is ridiculous but top 10 for sure. I got him at 10 but I’ll hear out some higher spots.
@@delshawngee9732 everyone ? I had Kobe 5th but 3rd is a REACH… it was always Lebron MJ Kareem and outside between the 4-10 spots was a mix of Magic/Duncan/Kobe/Bill/Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem in those 2016-2020 years of nba debates
Kobe has never been in my top 10 of all time. He's in the 11-15 range somewhere, but not top 10 imo.
I always had Kobe like 6 or 7....he not even better than kareem.....Kareem accomplishments blow Kobe out the water......
Chill and Swipa disrespect Kobe so much it actually pisses me off, no way in hell Dirk was better than Kobe
Duncan had a couple years I’m wit unc on this one
That he was definitively the best? There was no year where the masses were calling him definitively better than Kobe post shaq
@@TdwBsuCard24cause they weren’t paying as much attention on him. He was the best player in the league for a time idc.
@ good for you👍🏽 but your personal opinion truly doesn’t matter in the conversation of being definitively the best. It’s the masses. If there was a poll or multiple publications (espn, SI, bleacher report, etc.) and he didn’t get above 80% or not all the publication rankings put him 1, then he wasn’t definitive. You are probably in the minority like chill
Didn’t Kobe beat Tim in the playoffs?
Swipa loves his metrics argument because the way Jokic plays exploits the system.
These guys must be on drugs saying Dirk was a better player than Kobe Bryant. Please tell me when Dirk Nowitzki didn't have a great deep roster around him. Early in his career he had Steve Nash (who all y'all glaze the hell out of) and Michael Finley. Those Dallas teams were stacked from top to bottom. Kobe Bryant had to play 1 vs 5 until Pau Gasol got there. All he needed was just one other all star and the Lakers were a title contender. Dirk was a great scorer and a mismatch nightmare for any team. But Kobe was at another level. Y'all can hate him all you want but its the truth
Not a Kobe fan but Dirk over him is RIDICULOUS
Dirk won a ring with no all star teammate. Kobe never did that lmfao
@@ubereats3047 What does that mean? He still had a hell of a supporting cast. Jason Terry, Jason Kidd, Caron Butler, Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion, Peja Stojakovic... All guys who were no longer stars but still very effective. Sometimes a deep squad makes up for another star player. Y'all just talk
@ Kobe had a deep cast AND an all star teammate. Mind you we can really get nasty and end the discussion by bringing up Shaq but even the repeat squad was better than Dirk’s and Dirk fried that Lakers team trying to get the 3peat. Gasol, Bynum, Metta, Odom, Fisher isn’t a deep team? All of those guys were much better and in their prime/a few years from exiting their prime. Peja was in his last year and did not contribute much. J Kidd was serviceable but 38 years old. Caron Butler did not play in the playoffs he was unfortunately hurt. So we’re left with Jason Terry and Chandler who played good especially Jet in the playoffs but they are still not as good as Pau Gasol especially not 2010 finals Pau. Nobody on that lakers team was over the age of 31 besides Fisher.
@ubereats3047 If we're talking about 2011 when the Mavs swept the Lakers then sure I'll give you that. This was the beginning of Kobe's decline. His knees were shot which is why he went to get surgery in Germany the following year. It was downhill from there. I was mainly referring to the original argument the panel was having about Kobe Bryant at no point being the best player in the league. Which is a flat-out lie. Then Chill tried to say Dirk was better than Kobe at some point between 2005-2008 which is an even bigger lie. Yes, Kobe had Shaq for the 1st 3 championships but there were plenty of series where the Lakers wouldn't have won if Kobe hadn't established himself as the player on the court. Just like Shaq saved Kobe, Kobe saved Shaq. It was a 1A 1B situation. When Shaq left in the 2005 season who did Kobe have? I'll wait... He then carries a bum Lakers squad to the playoffs and 7 games against the best offense in the NBA. When Kobe did have a good supporting cast he delivered more often than not. Dirk always had a good team around him. Those Dallas rosters were always stacked 8-9 guys deep. That was a commodity during that time and with that said let's not act like Dirk didn't have a fair share of shortcomings. Besides 2006 most were early-round playoff exits including 2007 where they got upsetted by the 8th seed Warriors after having the best regular season record. And let's be real if LeBron didn't have the biggest superstar meltdown in Finals history Dallas may not have won it in 2011 considering the Heat were up 2-1 in the series. Point is peak for peak Kobe was better. Period
Revisionist history. Everyone at the time knew Kobe was the best and playoff performance alone don't make you better overall, Jimmy Butler. We all knew when Kobe got a team it was a wrap cuz he was the best player.
Playoff matter more than anything. Kobe isn’t the best alive because he was torching lottery teams in January 😂😂😂
Tim duncan was that guy that we all used to say was a hall of fame player but underrated. Something happened after he retired when we started acting like 18 8 average is better than Shaq and Kobe. Dude wasn't even the best player on his own team for half his career
Wow just got to the part where Dirk was the best player in 06-07. These guys wouldn't be allowed to speak on baskwtball of they were saying this back in 06/07. In that time, Kobe was being compared to MJ and people where literally split on that discussion on that time. And these dudes over talking about Dirk and Dwade lol. Btw kobe scored 62 in 3 quarters against that team. Gosh I must be getting old, people be rewriting history in front of my eyes!
Tim duncan is the greatest power forward ever......do you think giannis will surpass him one day as the greatest power forward......... as we speak he bout to add another accomplishment to his collection
@ even that. Tim Duncan played most his career at center lol. And yeah most likely he will pass him in accolades but not rings.
“Dude wasn’t even the best player on his own team for half his career.” Tim was the unquestioned best player on the spurs for the majority of his career. This revisionist history is hilarious
@ThePhenom10805
Try to prove me wrong. from 2006/2007 onwards he was not the best player on his team. Statistically speaking and usage speaking. Tony Parker had more usage and manu had the ball in the 4th lol. This is the reason no one talked about Tim Duncan while he was playing which led to the storyline that he was underrated.
@@MrOmabeastif your argument is going to be based on usage and just stats then you’ve already flopped on your take because Tim’s greatest value to the spurs was always his defense which is minimized in the stats you’re choosing to use. You can tell me about Manu and Tony’s roles increasing offensively but Tim continued to be a major offensive contributor but you’ll never be able to make a case for either one of them being remotely close to Tim in terms of impacting the game on the defensive end.
Oh and the 06/07 season, tim was clearly their best player. Wasn’t even debatable, some of y’all got fooled by Tony’s fmvp and just somehow forgot that the finals was only 4 games out the spurs season
Tim Duncan is a typical leader & team player who doesn't break the system. So he rarely records big stats. But when needed, he clearly could carry the team alone, like in the 2003 playoffs
- per 28.4 (league no.2)
- dws 2.67 (league no.1 / all time no.3)
- vorp 3.15 (league no.1 / all time no.2)
- ws 5.94 (league no.1 / all time no.1)
- stats per 100 posts basically
30+20+5+5
- basic stats
25+15+5+3
OG Buggin’!!! Tim Duncan was NEVER the hands down best player in the NBA in ANY year. Nobody has ever said that nor even debated that during any year Tim Duncan ever played.
@@KwizMatix yes they have… Tim Duncan was the best player in 1999, 2002 and 2003… arguably 2005
@@KwizMatix 2003 hands down was TIM DUNCAN’s year…
Championship
Finals MVP
MVP
1st Team
Did all that without a single teammate who made the All-Stars that season
@@MOCskodennah Tim Duncan wasn't even the best player on his team Greg Popovich said it was Manu Greg's system made Duncan look better than he was because Greg said in 2003 Manu could average 25 points a game anywhere but he's playing the role I ask him to play
@ nah Tim Duncan was the best player on his team back in 2003, Greg has always stated he couldn’t have a coaching career without Duncan and that year being a champion, mvp, Fmvp, and 1st team says otherwise… Manu wasn’t even anywhere near averaging 25 in the 2002-03 szn, lol we making hypotheticals/opinions instead of talking facts
@@malikwilson7387You mean Manu who in 2003 averaged 7 PPG on 40% shooting? LMFAO
Pop also never said that. What he actually said when asked why he was so successful was quote “I drafted Tim Duncan and I didn’t die”.
Duncan won basically 2 titles with Manu either not playing or playing horrible. When did Manu win anything without an All-NBA Duncan by his side?
Try again Bozo
08-10 Kobe went to 3 straight finals and won back to back.
I don’t get how Kobe could possibly be better than Duncan when Kobe missed the playoffs in his prime for the 05 playoffs, then lost a 3-1 lead in the first round of the 06 playoffs and then lost in 5 games in the first round in the 07 playoffs
Have you considered Kobe’s aura in your analysis?
I remember the 06 playoffs against the suns when they gave up that 3-1 lead....I graduated high school a month after that happend.....
because he won mvp 07-08, beat the most 50 win teams from 07-10, went to the finals 3 times in a row 08 09 10, and won 2 of them with 2fmvp
also the only top 10 player to win a ring without a top 75 player
In addition, he returned USA basketball back to prominence by leading the Redeem Team to a Gold Medal while defending the opposing countries best wing player 94 feet each game. Coach K said he was the best player. He brought that mentality the USA blue vs white game when he hit the game winner over Tayshaun Prince then defended Lebron on the other end in the last possession. A shot that Lebron ended up missing.
Im glad they brought this up, because people tend to have Duncan over Hakeem in their top 10 and I'm just curious as to why. Hakeem is regarded as the better player both offensively and defensively, but he's either in the bottom of people's top 10 or missing completely.
It's just rings.
accomplishments
@MarzTalksSports I understand that logic completely. So now I'm wondering if there should there be a greatness (accolades) vs best (overall ability) conversation. I get sometimes they can lead to the same place, but if a player's accolades/career measures out greater, does that mean he's overall better or should he placed higher than someone else.
@@benjaminan1183 I get that 100%. If you favor rings more, that's fine. I'm just curious because I think Hakeem could be just as successful on those Spurs team. Idk I guess it depends on your preference.
@@christopherbennett8073 i dont think so
Best Player Every Year Since 2000
2000 - Shaq (Definitive)
2001 - Shaq (Definitive)
2002- Shaq
2003 - Duncan
2004 - Garnett
2005 - Garnett (Definitive)
2006 - Kobe
2007 - Kobe (Definitive)
2008 - Kobe (Definitive)
2009 - Lebron
2010 - Kobe
2011 - Lebron
2012 - Lebron (Definitive)
2013 - Lebron (Definitive)
2014 - Lebron (Definitive)
2015 - Lebron
2016 - Lebron (Definitive)
2017 - Lebron (Definitive
2018 - Lebron (Definitive)
2019 - Curry (Definitive)
2020 - Lebron (Definitive)
2021 - Curry (Definitive)
2022 - Jokic
2023 - Jokic (Definitive)
2024 - Jokic (Definitive)
May I ask what Kobe not definitive for 2006
garnett wasnt a definitive best player . Youre a casual
@@atribecalledlen3567 respect kg?
He was shooting like kd that year
@@Jolteon1989 🤡
@@ZZ-ex8py ??? I didn’t say anything about KG
Not sure about the states but growing up in late 90s and early 00s in Europe, was not even a debate who was considered a better individual player between Tim Duncan and Kobe
Ron swear he know ball lol
Bro I swearrrrrr ! Talking stupid as hell
Almighty Ron a hooper tho that means he knows ball and we should listen to him
Kobe was the best player in the world Dirk was never the best in the world Swipa is all cap 🧢 The Kobe hate is crazy he went the nba finals 3 times 2x
In 2005 Shaq was dominant in his first season with the Miami Heat, averaging 22.9 points, 10.4 rebounds, and 2.3 blocks per game. He was the most physically dominant force in the league and led the Heat to a 59-23 record, finishing second in MVP voting. Shaq should of won the mvp that year but they give it to Nash
In 2005 Nash was also dominating in his first season with the Phoenix Suns, averaging 15.5 points 11.5 assists (led league) 3.3 rebounds and shot a near 50/40/90 that season, one of the best TS% in the season. He was the most offensive impact players as also one the best playmakers of all time in the league and led the Suns to a 62-20 record (best record in the toughest conference), the Suns were much worse w/ Nash off the team… and grabbed a MVP. Tall players like KG & Dirk even had better individual stats than Shaq in 2005.
KG: 22/13/5.7/1.5 57 TS%
Dirk: 26/10/3/2.3 58 TS%
Shaq: 23/10/2.7/2.3 58 TS%
Nash in 05 was a better player than 05 Shaq.. led the league in assists, better TS%, more wins, tougher west
Nash deserved his 2005 mvp over Shaq
@@MOCskodennash was not dominating in 05 lmao 15.5 ppg 😂😂😂😂😂😂.
@@MOCskodengo post Amare and Marion’s 05 stats.
In the 2002-2003 NBA season, Shaquille O’Neal played for the Los Angeles Lakers and continued to be one of the most dominant players in the league. Here are his key stats for that season:
•Games Played: 67
•Points Per Game (PPG): 27.5
•Rebounds Per Game (RPG): 11.1
• Assists Per Game (APG): 3.1
• Blocks Per Game (BPG): 2.4
•Field Goal Percentage (FG%): 57.4%
•Free Throw Percentage (FT%): 62.2%
chatgpt ass comments
LeBron Really Been The Best Player In The League Since 2006 To 2018. Yea You Had Guys Like Kobe, KD, Russ, Steph, And Harden But LeBron Was The All Around Phenom Of Those Years, Rings, MVPs, Finals Appearance, Playoff Performances And Game Winners He Was Top Dog Those Years. After 2018 Greek Freak, And Jokic Stepped In.. And LeBron Kinda Stepped Back In After Injury The Following Season Winning The Chip.
Can we stop trying to rewrite history lol majority of the basketball world did not believe LeBron was the best player in the world pre 2010. 09 was the first year it was a real discussion.
@LAsOwn What LeBron Did In 06.. Nobody Was Vibing Like That With That Cavs Roster. You Don't Gotta Get Voted MVP Every Year To Be The Best All Round Player.
No he wasn't it was tim Duncan n Kobe 03-12 as seen as the best player they always had the best ovrl in NBA games as well they used to say Kobe was best player to play basketball as well y'all trying rewrite history is jus showing y'all age or bias
Bron wasn't the best player in the league until 2012. Kobe was the best player in the league from 2006-2011.
Lbj was the best since 09’..
Shaq was definitively the best guy until Duncan took over in 03, then Kobe took over in 06, then it was LeBron from 2012-21 (personally I think Bron took over as the best in 09 but it's very debatable)
Kobe glaze is outrageous
The talk over rings needs to be thrown out the window when Jordan is mentioned because Duncan is as responsible for his total amount as is Kobe, Jordan and any other superstar for their respective team(s). He was the “Jordan” for his Spurs.
There is no year where dirk was better than kobe bryant at anytime at all as a basketball player...
2011….
Bird83-86, magic 86-88,Jordan 88-93,Hakeem 93-95, Jordan95-98,Shaq 98-02,Duncan02- 03, KG 03-04, Kobe 05-8, Bron 09-18,Steph 19 and 21,Giannis 21-22,Jokic 22-present, Not gone say who I got in 20 😂😂😂😂
No it’s been bron sense 2009-2020 to keep it real and Kobe was never the definitively better bron in 2009 was better than Kobe in 2009 and 2008 bron and Kobe was around the same level and then bron leap frog him in 2009.2004 and 2005 kg was the best.bron 2009-2020.think about bron in 2008 took the Celtic in 7 with less help than Kobe and drop 45 while Kobe went out sad 2009-2020 and 2008 is arguably and 2006 wade was crazy dominant in the playoffs so it wade and he played with a old ass and banged up shaq. so 2007 was Kobe what some what best player in the league without argument and dirk was their and bron carried his team to the finals
@ Not responding to all those dumb comments u just wrote 😂
Bron 09-18 is nasty...
@ how
bro thinks AD was the bitw W
Kobe 2001 WCF vs Spurs
33.3 points
7.0 rebounds
7.0 assists
Kobe 2002 WCSF vs Spurs
26.2 points
5.4 rebounds
4.8 assists
Kobe 2008 WCF vs Spurs
29.2 points
5.6 rebounds
3.8 assists
This channel will say anything to slander Kobe. The 2000s era was Kobe and he was better than Tim Duncan, LeBron, Wade, Dirk, etc
Aren’t you missing a series?
Marz got a good point that most of the time there isn’t a one definitive best player. Mikan in the 40’s/50’s, Kareem in the 70’s, MJ in the 90’s, probably Bron early 2010’s. Even when Kobe was the best in the mid-late 00’s, Bron was behind him and you can make the argument for him.
KOBE WAS NEVER THE BEST PlAYER IN THE LEAGUE!!
Define "Best".....and you'll watch this whole panel's brains explode.
Kobe is becoming underrated infront of our eyes, dirk was better den kobe now? What am I listening to
This generation should only talk about this generation. They're not qualified to talk about an era they didn't watch.
Kobe was voted player of the decade for the 2000s by the NBA...all of these opinions and debates are pointless 🤷
Because he’s popular?
@@hardwoodthought1213 best player of the 2000s decade was Kobe, even the NBA voted him the best
@@Chill_Brill No NBA fans voted him the best, again because he’s popular.
Those same fans now en-masse have LBJ over Kobe, you agree?
@@hardwoodthought1213 it was voted on by the media
Look at 2002. Duncan DOMINATED! 4-2 over Lakers and killed Shaq. 4-2 over Mavs and smoked Dirk. 4-2 over Nets with historic records in finals blocks and rebound. Also he was 1 block from a quad doubled in the last game. You guys are smoking something if you think Timmy didn't dominate. Dont forget he dominated Garrett his whole career! Top 4 player all time. If you dont know, now you know.
Nailed it
Dumbest question of all time. If 2003 Kobe Duncan & Shaq in Lebrons era there wouldn’t be a “definitive” best player. It’s literally dependent on who’s playing in “your” era. Hakeem was the “best player” because Jordan retired. Not because he was better than Kobe Jordan or Duncan. Everyone besides Ron & Marz sound brain dead.
Kobe getting a pass for that 06 series will always be crazy. That Suns team didn’t even have Amare. They were definitely beatable and Kobe flat out stopped being aggressive in game 7.
If Kobe kept shooting without the Lakers getting defensive stops which is exactly what happened in the 1st half of that game when the Lakers were down double digits how would they have won? The answer is they wouldn't. Only way you could beat the Suns is by getting stops defensively.
Get me on this show I will cook swipa for an hour straight Ong he disrespects Kobe and Giannis too much and there are hella inconsistencies in his arguments that yall don’t point out please I beg yall jus one appearance and swipa will lose all credibility
Bruh just the defensive awards alone put mine above the rest. 30 6 and 6 with first team all defense come on bruh. Dirk was amazing. NOBODY WAS BETTER THAN 06-07 KOBE.
The 42-42 Kobe who won 1 playoff game? lol
@hardwoodthought1213 dam its almost as if it's a team sport. Lol ever seen the teamnwith the best player lose. Jordan did it for 8 fking years lol
@@lt45gs Right, and when MJ was getting dusted in round 1 he wasn’t the best player.
MJ when losing as the leagues best player was competitive. Kobe was not.
These dudes said Magic and Kobe weren't definitive. That's all you need to know about their opinions.
dont think one excludes the other... being consistently top 3 in like 5 or 6 strainght seasons while winning mvps and finals mvps is better than peaking 1 year where youre definitively the best, but have no championships or mvps.
For four seasons tim duncan was the best player. 2001-02 to 2004-05.
I think Kobe was the best from when shaq said so in 2001-2012. I think by 2005 it was brazenly obvious on both sides of the ball.
Yea Kobe was the best at one point but in 01 hell no earliest is 05
Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team in 01....that team revolved around shaq......
@@eddiecampbell9663Kobe and shaq both averaged 29 in 2000-01 and Kobe was by far and away the better defender and was the closer. I’d agree 01-11 was Kobe’s league
@@jonaheverage7001 it was split between him and duncan.....how was it kobe league when he only won 1 league mvp during that whole stretch.....
These dudes not even old enough to have this conversation with
You can’t be the best player if you’re a liability on defense basically giving up the same amount of points your scoring
So… d wade average 35 for a 6 game stretch? Kobe averaged 35 for 82 games the same year but d wade had a better year??? This show is crazy
Nobody was saying Embid was definitively better than Giannis 😂
It's crazy to me that Jokic is this consensus best player in the league because he has 3 MVPS only one of which i believe is deserved but Duncan wasn't while having multiple titles by 05 and one of his best years smh.
Exactly, on top of MVPs and All-Defensive 1st team selections
@@GODsoN_8471 yeah Duncan definitely has multiple years as the leagues best definitive player… either 2-4 seasons…