If the parchment is indeed old, then the odd chemical layer could be residue from a process used to remove whatever was on the parchment before. It could have just been someone's shopping list, but mundane items like that can be very revealing when seen from a more distant time. Sad about whatever genuine information may have been lost due to someone's greed.
you can find MANY old texts missing their blank cover page, because someone "harvested" it to make a fake "antique" document. It's very likely that's where the parchment for this came from as well, also the coating is probably to prevent the parchment from shattering into dust when the pen was put to it
This is a good thought. Glycerine is used in a lot of soaps and solvents. One of the more popular ways to make counterfeit money is to wash the ink out of real $1 bills and make $50 or $100 bills using the blank paper. So to try and fool testing he may have thought to use old paper. Unfortunately he didn't use old anything else. lol
Weren't palempsets (Sp?) just scraped down, too? Yes, parchment was hard to make and got reused, but that could have been more authentic as well as the ink.
@@elizabethmcglothlin5406 Palimpsest. And yeah, it seems that's how a lot of medieval fakes were made. But apparently you can still renew the scratched out bits somehow, chemically I think?, and some fakes like that were caught because the writing underneath was newer than the purported age of the fake. So maybe the forger had a newer pergamen than what they were trying to make, and tried to prevent that form of discovery? If this theory is indeed true and if it works like that, I don't really know. 🙂 (I do know the above because I've just been reading T.G. Masaryk's writing from the time when we Czechs had our own forgery scandal, back in the 1880s. Apparently palimpsest forgeries could already be discovered like that back then!)
I am once again reminded of "Brandolini's Law", or the "B_llsh_t Asymmetry Principle": "The amount of energy needed to refute b_llsh_t is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."
Not even close to being an expert here, but I am going to take a stab at the glycol treatment. Parchment has to be prepared by smoothing, etc to take ink. If this parchment was 'skinned' or otherwise altered to remove old ink, then it would have to be resurfaced to be able to accept writing. I will venture a guess that the glycol treatment was sizing, making the surface of the old parchment suitable to accept ink.
Jimmy makes me smile whether its sassy Jimmy, editing Jimmy or that weird shouty madman viking Jimmy. Oh and PS plain old sweater wearing Jimmy is no bad either.
I remember watching a very large RUclips channel's video "exonerating" Christopher Columbus, and as a source they had used this map, I at the time believed them and googled the map only to realise how badly researched their video was. They also have a video talking about how the name Britain comes from Brittany and that the Celtic Britons settled western Britannia around the same time as the Angles, Jutes and Saxons. That video has half a million views and every time I come across it, it makes me physically nauseous. My point is, that makes me appreciate channels such as yours far more, knowing that your research isn't done by a quick google search and that you actually know what you're talking about.
Yale is in the town over from me, so I've had the pleasure of being in their rare book library. I can attest that it's hideous from the outside, but let me tell you, the glow of sunlight that comes through those thin marble walls is nearly as breathtakingly beautiful as some of the books in there. Thank you for breaking down another one of their very $$$ scandals. Hopefully funds can go to better uses now.
Jimmy, spilling historical tea once again! I'm here for it :) And my Norwegian heart cries over that fake map. Like, were we nothing to you, fake cartographer? How could you mistreat us in such a way!
From what I can remember (am still in bed and can't be arsed getting up going to my bookshelf), there's an actual late medieval map which shows Greenland as a peninsula west of Norway, with Iceland in the bay in between. And none of them are very well drawn.
British museum refuses to buy map, presumably because they guessed/knew it was fake. Yale have to be better so spend half a million or so on this, keep it hidden, publish a book (panned) saying how great they are and then take sixty plus years to admit that all those telling them it was fake were right. Doesn't say much for Yale as an institution of great learning.
Shoot, the tag for "outgoing mail" on my apartment mailbox might be considered older than this. Though it's on Rhodia paper, it's written in WWII era Parker Quink microfilm black, in Visigoth calligraphy. Probably older ink than was used for this...
the intesting thing about this map (according to my local newspaper which published the story): the year this map was bought by yale there was no proof yet of vikings on american shore. if i remember correctly, the first archeological sources were found a few years afterwards. so i can understand how people were quite desperate to find proof and therefore willing to take some risks
Ah, the most obvious sign of all obvious signs... no expert may see, or test it. Hmm, think I have a rare, ancient mummy's hand around here. Perhaps Yale will be interested. It grants wishes, I swear!
Glycerol/glycerine is a humectant, keeps something pliable (used to put glycerine in royal icing to make it less tooth-breakingly hard). May also have been used to stop the modern ink reacting oddly with the parchment (rather than proper oak-gall/iron ink reacting with the protein in the parchment).
my immediate and totally untrained and ignorant thought process went ... glycerol... hmm, wonder if that was used to soften the authentic parchment enough to scrape away any potential existing markings without damaging it, to prepare for modern inking
Yes! I was thinking the same thing when he mentioned it. I think the saddest thing about this is that the parchment might have actually been a medieval artefact that was ruined by the modern additions…
I wish we could find out what was originally on the Parchment. It would never have been left blank intentionally so whatever was originally written or drawn on it is lost :-(
Actually, apparently blank parchments do turn up, usually as blank pages in books. So not all modern parchment forgeries ruin old writing. They do always ruin the integrity of old objects, though...
Even before Jamestown or the Plymouth Colony, the oldest permanent European settlement in what is now the United States was founded in September 1565 by a Spanish soldier named Pedro Menéndez de Avilés in St. Augustine, Florida. Menéndez picked the colony’s name because he originally spotted the site on August 28, the feast day of St. Augustine.
This Vinland map fakery has me wondering about the deeper layers of this scam. Was the map made to facilitate a dodgy financial transaction between an anonymous donor and Yale? I can't stop the feeling that this map sale is a subterfuge to cover something else, some greater corruption or scandal. I'd follow the money, but the truth coming out now tells me everyone who could face trouble for the scam, is now safely dead. I wonder where the money went and who benefited. 🤔
The British Museum saw and rejected this map before Yale saw it, so it probably was not created just for this transaction. But dodgy financial transactions have been part of higher education for a long time (like the current 'admissions scandal'). Schools who need funding for objects or programs have offered special benefits to donors for a very long time. That the donor here wanted anonymity makes me suspect that their child got an all expenses paid admission to Yale, or if they were already there and doing poorly, got a degree that they might not have earned. Impossible to say for sure.
It's really surprised me that we still can't accurately tell when an ink drawn or written. We can carbon dating the parchment at point what year the parchment was but can't tell the year of the ink. The only way they found out it's forgery just because the ink material used is modern. Imagine if the forgerer more cautious at point he used medieval-only ink material. The map would get away!
This is also infuriating, because academia in general is under attack from certain political factions (even *mainstream* factions, here, in the U.S., where Yale is), on such vitally important issues from understanding disease, to surviving global warming, to addressing issues of racial justice, and fighting poverty (and yes, preserving and rediscovering our history and languages). And shenanigans like this only gives the anti-science, anti-academia shouty types more fodder for their flamewars.
Glycerol used to be used as part of a preparation in parchment conservation, to keep it stabilized and flexible. But I don't think it has been since the 1990s
I'm doing PhD in accelerator based material physics and this type of artifact would be quite easy to analyze and characterize with accelerator based methods. Of course these modern methods I use are more advanced than that used to analyze this map.
Wow, that's an embarrassing amount of money to spend on a fake map :( Why would the people who made it not put more effort into trying to use less modern materials?? I sent a card to your PO box and it should get there in a couple weeks! There are also a few little prints of some drawings I did!
All the silliness of people wishing for things to be true that just aren't. Always comes back to bite them in the end. Thanks for the smiles, Jimmy. Take care.
This is a totally unscientific guess based only on the fact that I collect fountain pens and inks, so I could be completely wrong, but I think it’s possible that whoever faked this coated the surface because modern inks (early 20th century onwards) tend to be much thinner than older inks (so that they can be used in fountain pens). Being thinner they wouldn’t sit on the surface, but instead soak in, bleed and spread, unless the surface was coated. As I say, just a guess, but it seems logical to me. If I use modern inks on uncoated paper or other drawings surfaces that’s what tends to happen, where as it behaves well on coated paper.
Can't believe that it had been so easy to scam Yale basically and even worse, after the British Museum rejected it! I mean...scholars could not communicate as easily as today but still...a few phone calls maybe to discuss it or to run a background check on the sketchy guy before buying? So sad that so many resources were wasted on this.
Well to be fair, it sounds like Yale was eager, if not outright panting, to scam itself. This whole ordeal seems like a dodgy, back alley deal to get money to an institution that could lend credence to the fact that "Vikings" were the greatest explorers ever. The fact that it was done in the 50s, right after the fall of the Reich, who were also determined to prove the superiority of their blonde genes, tells me it might have ties to that. We all know lots of Nazis fled into America, both North and South, and were using Nazi gold to pave their way for ideas to try and supplant western ideas. Maybe this was one way they tried, by hawking a fake map that would finally prove how great the Vikings were.
I think to a degree, the fact that the British Museum had rejected it may have in fact played into the decision to buy it, stupidly. A sort of "you rejected it, we got it, joke's on you!" Take That to the Old Country. Pretty sure the decision to buy it had more to do with some political reasons than genuine research interests. It's exactly the sort of gut reaction an object purporting to be an important historical document is _designed_ to spark.
It is a piece of the history of forgery and scams now, and interesting as such. How, why, and by whom was it made? Why was it accepted by Yale? There is bound to be some juicy details we will probably never know. Thanks for reporting on this case.
Yeah the map is stupid and fake, but the Beinecke is nice! The facade is actually really thin marble so on the inside it glows with the most wonderful soft light (which helps protect the books).
I kept laughing throughout the video... that is, until you got to the part about how the crap ton of money that went into analyzing this obviously fake map could be spent on something actually important. Sad but true :( Anyway, this video was A+ entertainment. And the multiple spellings of 'fake'? A++! This was great fun, please debunk more ridiculous stuff :)
What's your opinion on the idea that a lot of some welsh people could have historical ties to Hispania (now Spain/Portugal) and from that potentially Arabic influences?
im vary happy you shed some light on this, i have seen the map and on a few occasions used it as a arguing point. now knowing its fake, it will definitely change my opinion on the Viking migration theory. love your content keep up the good work!
Thanks for these videos! They are always a delightful blend of education, humor, and sass. If you want to tackle yet another American Viking "artifact"... The "Heavener Runestone" in Oklahoma is a fun one. The rhetoric around it leans towards "But maybe vikings COULD have been here," rather than outright claims of authenticity, but I guess that's a safe middle ground for tourism-dependent types who feel a "questionable" is a better draw for tourists than "absolutely fake."
@@TheWelshViking I had no idea we had supposed "runestones" in the USA, until some relatives went to see the Oklahoma one on vacation and got all excited about it. I have no real theories, but that one was *SUPPOSEDLY* seen and talked about as far back as 1920. I just hope it turns out to be some 19th century Norse enthusiast, who thought they'd do a little unusual graffiti on a hike, and is in the afterlife cackling about all the fuss.
at first i thought,well at the very least...they spared the feelings of the proponents of the map, until they were dead, but then i thought, what about the feelings of the people who were correct and told they were wrong..they'll never know either. so that negates that, and worse, if there was any purposeful (vs not competent) actions going on to push the belief and sale, then keeping it in limbo would aid the corrupt (or..less competent) to continue their careers for the rest of their lives which only spawns more problems down the road. so shockingly..it's better to favor the better evidence at the time, at all times. (but..but...the money...) :-)
It is highly disapointing how much extra effort, time and resource had to go into proving it fake, beyond just the modern ink (and before that the handwriting + comparisons etc) Research that could have been done into something that people didn't start their projects going "yup, it's fake, is this enough evidence yet?"
Interesting this happened at Yale (which is in Hartford, Connecticut for anyone who doesn't know). New England, specifically a Harvard chemistry professor, pioneered fake Vikings in North America stories. This was before even Scandinavian immigrants in the midwest, mind you. His name was Eben Horsford and is best known for inventing double-acting baking powder. He spent his fortune conducting fake surveys, archeological digs and writing books trying to convince people that Boston was Norumbega. And, at the time, bored people in smarmy New England ate it up.
If I remember correctly one of the lingering defenses for the map was the artificial anatase found on it had fallen from the paint of the lab ceiling. Secondary was the reason it was only found on the ink lines rather than all over the parchment was a lingering adhesive quality of the ink.
This map Has Vancouver island, NW Territories, The great lakes (Snake Island) and maybe a badly done Nova scotia. It looks like a Grade 5 cartography lesson when you have to draw it yourself
Jimmy, hi, I'm just asking if its possible for you to allow your flash on screen info to stay up a few seconds longer. Perhaps my brain is slow, but I can't comprehend what is flashed for 1/2 a second and I end up stopping and replaying until I can pause it to read. This is time consuming.
Nice and entertaining. Not as entertaining as the one with the fake armour, but pretty good. Situations are changing, hope I will be able to support you before the end of the year, you deserve it!
That was very interesting. I can understand that there might be some reluctance to pour good money after bad but I have so many questions about the provenance and origin of this document. What was behind its creation? Is there any evidence that the folk who sold it to Yale knew it was a fake? Did the creator or some intermediary do it to make a fortune or was it all done as an elaborate practical joke?
Sassy Jimmy is awesome but all Jimmy is awesome. Floopi Snoop is the best thing I've heard all day. I'm not really suprised Yale did that. When you're supposed to be one of the best universities and you get something that wrong you dont want to admit it.
I love this type of videos, very informative and entertaining at the same time. Always surprised how interesting things I never thought about before can be.
I used to teach World History here in the US, and they had the Vinland Map in the textbooks. What’s horrible is that there was no mention of the map possibly being fake. However, I do live in Texas, and the rumors of being backwards and ignorant are true.
This doesn't mean that Norsemen didn't go to America, we know they did and have found their settlements. Just that this one map was a poorly made fake.
You know, the chemical "glycerol monostearate" that is cited is not the most interesting thing about the chemical analyses, to me was the presence of oxidized copper and iron oxides. It is a weak theory but glycerol monostearate (GMS) is used for lots of things including "an emulsifying agent for oils", while the presence of metal based oxide contaminants sound suspiciously like paint pigments. Together that sounds to me like an oil paint based weathering, or something like an antiquing fluid (for paintings, not metal). Normally with these things, you would use mineral spirits to thin the mixture, and mineral spirits are used in woodworking to help oil based stains set into the wood... So... I think the author of the Vinland Map took regular paper, soaked it in a home-made antiquing/ weathering wash, and then left the paper to dry before putting ink on it. Leaving behind the GMS and assorted pigments that were used to stain the paper. If that doesn't make sense then please ignore me.
As far as I know the parchment itself is a lot older, but has been tampered with using this monostearate and the weathering mixture as you mention. But then, why bother if it's old already? Super weird stuff! This is an aspect of the case I hadn't even thought about!
It's also worth noting that while Vikings had contact with asia minor (Turkey) it is exceptionally unlikely that even with the silk road and other such passages into china and the far east, that the pacific islands of Taiwan, Japan, etc wouldn't have even been featured in a Norse map merely for the point that... the Vikings never ventured into the pacific lol.
@@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647 um.... huh?? Im not sure what you're saying. we have archaological artifacts and manuscripts that prove Ottomans and Vikings did buisness with each other and interacted. The Norse had settlements in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, North Africa.... China, Japan and S.E Asia at the time, were dominated by powerful empires of their own. Europeans never settled the pacific prior to the 1700s at the earliest. sorry to burst your bubble there.
This map is so obviously fake just looking at it with your eyes, it’s astonishing anyone was willing to spend money on it. Who made that decision? A lot of wishful thinking going on in that person’s head
My guess on Yale's delay to announce: I bet the original donor of the money died!
If the parchment is indeed old, then the odd chemical layer could be residue from a process used to remove whatever was on the parchment before. It could have just been someone's shopping list, but mundane items like that can be very revealing when seen from a more distant time. Sad about whatever genuine information may have been lost due to someone's greed.
you can find MANY old texts missing their blank cover page, because someone "harvested" it to make a fake "antique" document.
It's very likely that's where the parchment for this came from as well, also the coating is probably to prevent the parchment from shattering into dust when the pen was put to it
Yes, I was about to suggest that and I agree with your comment about greed!
This is a good thought. Glycerine is used in a lot of soaps and solvents. One of the more popular ways to make counterfeit money is to wash the ink out of real $1 bills and make $50 or $100 bills using the blank paper. So to try and fool testing he may have thought to use old paper. Unfortunately he didn't use old anything else. lol
Weren't palempsets (Sp?) just scraped down, too? Yes, parchment was hard to make and got reused, but that could have been more authentic as well as the ink.
@@elizabethmcglothlin5406 Palimpsest.
And yeah, it seems that's how a lot of medieval fakes were made. But apparently you can still renew the scratched out bits somehow, chemically I think?, and some fakes like that were caught because the writing underneath was newer than the purported age of the fake. So maybe the forger had a newer pergamen than what they were trying to make, and tried to prevent that form of discovery? If this theory is indeed true and if it works like that, I don't really know. 🙂
(I do know the above because I've just been reading T.G. Masaryk's writing from the time when we Czechs had our own forgery scandal, back in the 1880s. Apparently palimpsest forgeries could already be discovered like that back then!)
I am once again reminded of "Brandolini's Law", or the "B_llsh_t Asymmetry Principle": "The amount of energy needed to refute b_llsh_t is an order of magnitude larger than to produce it."
I live in the pacific north west and have found som3 questionable artifacts
Not even close to being an expert here, but I am going to take a stab at the glycol treatment. Parchment has to be prepared by smoothing, etc to take ink. If this parchment was 'skinned' or otherwise altered to remove old ink, then it would have to be resurfaced to be able to accept writing. I will venture a guess that the glycol treatment was sizing, making the surface of the old parchment suitable to accept ink.
Jimmy makes me smile whether its sassy Jimmy, editing Jimmy or that weird shouty madman viking Jimmy. Oh and PS plain old sweater wearing Jimmy is no bad either.
Plain old sweater wearing Jimmy is the real og but I have a special place in my heart for sassy Jimmy I think it's peak Jimmy
@@sagebuchanan9725 I think I like falling over Jimmy best of all. Or skipping around like an elf Jimmy.
@@rachelboersma-plug9482 AHAHAHA!! YES!! :)
I remember watching a very large RUclips channel's video "exonerating" Christopher Columbus, and as a source they had used this map, I at the time believed them and googled the map only to realise how badly researched their video was. They also have a video talking about how the name Britain comes from Brittany and that the Celtic Britons settled western Britannia around the same time as the Angles, Jutes and Saxons. That video has half a million views and every time I come across it, it makes me physically nauseous.
My point is, that makes me appreciate channels such as yours far more, knowing that your research isn't done by a quick google search and that you actually know what you're talking about.
Yale is in the town over from me, so I've had the pleasure of being in their rare book library. I can attest that it's hideous from the outside, but let me tell you, the glow of sunlight that comes through those thin marble walls is nearly as breathtakingly beautiful as some of the books in there.
Thank you for breaking down another one of their very $$$ scandals. Hopefully funds can go to better uses now.
Yep, Marble walls are nifty. I live on the other end of the state.
Hey, fellow nutmeggers! There's a reason for the thin marble walls!! It's to protect the books from sunlight.
Now I have a need to visit the rare books library. Thin marble windows.
Beat me to it. The building is absolutely gorgeous when the sun is shining though the stone.
Jimmy, spilling historical tea once again! I'm here for it :)
And my Norwegian heart cries over that fake map. Like, were we nothing to you, fake cartographer? How could you mistreat us in such a way!
From what I can remember (am still in bed and can't be arsed getting up going to my bookshelf), there's an actual late medieval map which shows Greenland as a peninsula west of Norway, with Iceland in the bay in between. And none of them are very well drawn.
British museum refuses to buy map, presumably because they guessed/knew it was fake. Yale have to be better so spend half a million or so on this, keep it hidden, publish a book (panned) saying how great they are and then take sixty plus years to admit that all those telling them it was fake were right.
Doesn't say much for Yale as an institution of great learning.
The more prestigious you are the more effort you spend protecting your frauds
Like he pointed out, they literally had to wait `til everyone who was involved was dead to avoid scandal. Even academia is ruled by politics.
Shoot, the tag for "outgoing mail" on my apartment mailbox might be considered older than this. Though it's on Rhodia paper, it's written in WWII era Parker Quink microfilm black, in Visigoth calligraphy. Probably older ink than was used for this...
Oh - that's a good point! I have a couple WWII era items, too.
the intesting thing about this map (according to my local newspaper which published the story): the year this map was bought by yale there was no proof yet of vikings on american shore. if i remember correctly, the first archeological sources were found a few years afterwards. so i can understand how people were quite desperate to find proof and therefore willing to take some risks
Ah, the most obvious sign of all obvious signs... no expert may see, or test it. Hmm, think I have a rare, ancient mummy's hand around here. Perhaps Yale will be interested. It grants wishes, I swear!
Sounds like the shroud of Turin 🤣
Glycerol/glycerine is a humectant, keeps something pliable (used to put glycerine in royal icing to make it less tooth-breakingly hard). May also have been used to stop the modern ink reacting oddly with the parchment (rather than proper oak-gall/iron ink reacting with the protein in the parchment).
my immediate and totally untrained and ignorant thought process went ... glycerol... hmm, wonder if that was used to soften the authentic parchment enough to scrape away any potential existing markings without damaging it, to prepare for modern inking
Yes! I was thinking the same thing when he mentioned it.
I think the saddest thing about this is that the parchment might have actually been a medieval artefact that was ruined by the modern additions…
@@esmecat this was my thought as well, used to wash the original writing off the parchment in order to reuse it.
You've inspired me to buy a cheap copy of the 1969 book about this so I can make some whimsical artwork about misinformation. This will be fun!
I wish we could find out what was originally on the Parchment. It would never have been left blank intentionally so whatever was originally written or drawn on it is lost :-(
Maybe the chemical coating on it was residue from what they did to remove the original ink.
Actually, apparently blank parchments do turn up, usually as blank pages in books. So not all modern parchment forgeries ruin old writing. They do always ruin the integrity of old objects, though...
[feɪk njuːz wɪð ˈʤɪmi] is lowkey becoming one of my favourite segments. Bonus points for old fakes. Love 'em.
Even before Jamestown or the Plymouth Colony, the oldest permanent European settlement in what is now the United States was founded in September 1565 by a Spanish soldier named Pedro Menéndez de Avilés in St. Augustine, Florida. Menéndez picked the colony’s name because he originally spotted the site on August 28, the feast day of St. Augustine.
This Vinland map fakery has me wondering about the deeper layers of this scam. Was the map made to facilitate a dodgy financial transaction between an anonymous donor and Yale? I can't stop the feeling that this map sale is a subterfuge to cover something else, some greater corruption or scandal. I'd follow the money, but the truth coming out now tells me everyone who could face trouble for the scam, is now safely dead. I wonder where the money went and who benefited. 🤔
The British Museum saw and rejected this map before Yale saw it, so it probably was not created just for this transaction. But dodgy financial transactions have been part of higher education for a long time (like the current 'admissions scandal'). Schools who need funding for objects or programs have offered special benefits to donors for a very long time. That the donor here wanted anonymity makes me suspect that their child got an all expenses paid admission to Yale, or if they were already there and doing poorly, got a degree that they might not have earned. Impossible to say for sure.
Man, the Yale time Traveller who went back with a ballpoint just to get that map is probably pretty chagrined now.
Best comment so far 🙃🤣
They probably should have left the Reykjavik Starbucks off the map. Kind of a giveaway.
It's really surprised me that we still can't accurately tell when an ink drawn or written. We can carbon dating the parchment at point what year the parchment was but can't tell the year of the ink. The only way they found out it's forgery just because the ink material used is modern. Imagine if the forgerer more cautious at point he used medieval-only ink material. The map would get away!
This is also infuriating, because academia in general is under attack from certain political factions (even *mainstream* factions, here, in the U.S., where Yale is), on such vitally important issues from understanding disease, to surviving global warming, to addressing issues of racial justice, and fighting poverty (and yes, preserving and rediscovering our history and languages). And shenanigans like this only gives the anti-science, anti-academia shouty types more fodder for their flamewars.
Glycerol used to be used as part of a preparation in parchment conservation, to keep it stabilized and flexible. But I don't think it has been since the 1990s
It used to be a regular on Mysteries of the Unknown/Fortean Times type publications back in the 70's/80's
I'm doing PhD in accelerator based material physics and this type of artifact would be quite easy to analyze and characterize with accelerator based methods. Of course these modern methods I use are more advanced than that used to analyze this map.
Wow, that's an embarrassing amount of money to spend on a fake map :( Why would the people who made it not put more effort into trying to use less modern materials??
I sent a card to your PO box and it should get there in a couple weeks! There are also a few little prints of some drawings I did!
Eeeh! Cards from cools!
Yeah, it's a crazy story when you look at the volume of cash and effort that went into it, it's such a scandal!
Can't wait for the History channel documentary that claims the Vinland map was made by time travellers, or aliens, or both.
Extra dimensional extra terrestrial time traveling libertarians actually... Nice to know my political party advances some in a few hundred years 🙃
I would love more debunking videos, this is fascinating
Oh great! Then I will do more!
I'm tempted to use part or all the this map in a d&d games so it can be of some use.
Oh I love this idea
Ah yes, ye olde sharpie mappe
I do like Sassy Jimmy! I love Yale was trying to 1 up the British Museum with this & basically bought a pig-in-a-pock.
Well if they're still in the market, I know where there's a bridge for sale 😏
All the silliness of people wishing for things to be true that just aren't. Always comes back to bite them in the end. Thanks for the smiles, Jimmy. Take care.
Always glad to provide them, Nancy :) x
This is a totally unscientific guess based only on the fact that I collect fountain pens and inks, so I could be completely wrong, but I think it’s possible that whoever faked this coated the surface because modern inks (early 20th century onwards) tend to be much thinner than older inks (so that they can be used in fountain pens). Being thinner they wouldn’t sit on the surface, but instead soak in, bleed and spread, unless the surface was coated.
As I say, just a guess, but it seems logical to me. If I use modern inks on uncoated paper or other drawings surfaces that’s what tends to happen, where as it behaves well on coated paper.
WHAT?!?!?!! I wish I would have lived then...I had a bridge to sell them.
Can't believe that it had been so easy to scam Yale basically and even worse, after the British Museum rejected it! I mean...scholars could not communicate as easily as today but still...a few phone calls maybe to discuss it or to run a background check on the sketchy guy before buying? So sad that so many resources were wasted on this.
you're talking about YALE! The same university that gave George W Bush a degree
Well to be fair, it sounds like Yale was eager, if not outright panting, to scam itself. This whole ordeal seems like a dodgy, back alley deal to get money to an institution that could lend credence to the fact that "Vikings" were the greatest explorers ever. The fact that it was done in the 50s, right after the fall of the Reich, who were also determined to prove the superiority of their blonde genes, tells me it might have ties to that. We all know lots of Nazis fled into America, both North and South, and were using Nazi gold to pave their way for ideas to try and supplant western ideas. Maybe this was one way they tried, by hawking a fake map that would finally prove how great the Vikings were.
I think to a degree, the fact that the British Museum had rejected it may have in fact played into the decision to buy it, stupidly. A sort of "you rejected it, we got it, joke's on you!" Take That to the Old Country.
Pretty sure the decision to buy it had more to do with some political reasons than genuine research interests. It's exactly the sort of gut reaction an object purporting to be an important historical document is _designed_ to spark.
It is a piece of the history of forgery and scams now, and interesting as such. How, why, and by whom was it made? Why was it accepted by Yale? There is bound to be some juicy details we will probably never know. Thanks for reporting on this case.
Yeah the map is stupid and fake, but the Beinecke is nice! The facade is actually really thin marble so on the inside it glows with the most wonderful soft light (which helps protect the books).
Here's an interesting hypothetical: now that the Vinland Map is known to be fake, how much (if any) value does it have as a curiosity?
I kept laughing throughout the video... that is, until you got to the part about how the crap ton of money that went into analyzing this obviously fake map could be spent on something actually important. Sad but true :( Anyway, this video was A+ entertainment. And the multiple spellings of 'fake'? A++! This was great fun, please debunk more ridiculous stuff :)
What's your opinion on the idea that a lot of some welsh people could have historical ties to Hispania (now Spain/Portugal) and from that potentially Arabic influences?
im vary happy you shed some light on this, i have seen the map and on a few occasions used it as a arguing point. now knowing its fake, it will definitely change my opinion on the Viking migration theory. love your content keep up the good work!
Thanks for these videos! They are always a delightful blend of education, humor, and sass.
If you want to tackle yet another American Viking "artifact"... The "Heavener Runestone" in Oklahoma is a fun one.
The rhetoric around it leans towards "But maybe vikings COULD have been here," rather than outright claims of authenticity, but I guess that's a safe middle ground for tourism-dependent types who feel a "questionable" is a better draw for tourists than "absolutely fake."
Oh, youdbetter believe we've got a North Anerican runestone video in the pipeline!
@@TheWelshViking I had no idea we had supposed "runestones" in the USA, until some relatives went to see the Oklahoma one on vacation and got all excited about it.
I have no real theories, but that one was *SUPPOSEDLY* seen and talked about as far back as 1920. I just hope it turns out to be some 19th century Norse enthusiast, who thought they'd do a little unusual graffiti on a hike, and is in the afterlife cackling about all the fuss.
at first i thought,well at the very least...they spared the feelings of the proponents of the map, until they were dead, but then i thought, what about the feelings of the people who were correct and told they were wrong..they'll never know either. so that negates that, and worse, if there was any purposeful (vs not competent) actions going on to push the belief and sale, then keeping it in limbo would aid the corrupt (or..less competent) to continue their careers for the rest of their lives which only spawns more problems down the road. so shockingly..it's better to favor the better evidence at the time, at all times. (but..but...the money...) :-)
It is highly disapointing how much extra effort, time and resource had to go into proving it fake, beyond just the modern ink (and before that the handwriting + comparisons etc) Research that could have been done into something that people didn't start their projects going "yup, it's fake, is this enough evidence yet?"
very interesting episode! what is that circular writing you showed when talking about untranslated languages?
that's authentic historical italian scam, it must be worth something :P
Interesting this happened at Yale (which is in Hartford, Connecticut for anyone who doesn't know). New England, specifically a Harvard chemistry professor, pioneered fake Vikings in North America stories. This was before even Scandinavian immigrants in the midwest, mind you. His name was Eben Horsford and is best known for inventing double-acting baking powder. He spent his fortune conducting fake surveys, archeological digs and writing books trying to convince people that Boston was Norumbega. And, at the time, bored people in smarmy New England ate it up.
If I remember correctly one of the lingering defenses for the map was the artificial anatase found on it had fallen from the paint of the lab ceiling. Secondary was the reason it was only found on the ink lines rather than all over the parchment was a lingering adhesive quality of the ink.
This map Has Vancouver island, NW Territories, The great lakes (Snake Island) and maybe a badly done Nova scotia. It looks like a Grade 5 cartography lesson when you have to draw it yourself
Thanks for the video, great like always
Jimmy, hi, I'm just asking if its possible for you to allow your flash on screen info to stay up a few seconds longer. Perhaps my brain is slow, but I can't comprehend what is flashed for 1/2 a second and I end up stopping and replaying until I can pause it to read. This is time consuming.
such a fun video. Thanks Jimmy
Love getting updates from the silly things happening in history like this!
Nice and entertaining. Not as entertaining as the one with the fake armour, but pretty good. Situations are changing, hope I will be able to support you before the end of the year, you deserve it!
Oh, that's so sweet! Don't you go bankrupting yohrself or I'll feel terrible
OH MY GOD A WELSH CHANNEL YEEEEESSSSS
It’s sad that it’s taken so long and so much money to confirm that. Though I really enjoyed your take on all the going’s on
Thanks! Yeah, it's a shame, but at least it's cleared up, I guess?
As you well know, I'm an underqualified knuckledragger and even to me it just looks insanely wrong.
The chemical coting might be someone trying to age the map to make it look older, but I am not an expert in chemicals. So am probably wrong
OK that's not what *I* thought scandinavia looked like...
This is some truly excellent shade!
That was very interesting. I can understand that there might be some reluctance to pour good money after bad but I have so many questions about the provenance and origin of this document. What was behind its creation? Is there any evidence that the folk who sold it to Yale knew it was a fake? Did the creator or some intermediary do it to make a fortune or was it all done as an elaborate practical joke?
Sassy Jimmy is awesome but all Jimmy is awesome. Floopi Snoop is the best thing I've heard all day. I'm not really suprised Yale did that. When you're supposed to be one of the best universities and you get something that wrong you dont want to admit it.
Interesting, I didn't know about this map. Only the piri Reis map from the 1513, but I think this map is real, right?
Love your videos!
I love this type of videos, very informative and entertaining at the same time. Always surprised how interesting things I never thought about before can be.
3:30 *Spain & Portugal enter the chat*
Another wonderful video. Great work.
I'm a relatively new subscriber (loving the channel so far!), what's the music you use when the Welsh Viking card shows up?
It's a traditiinal Welsh tune called "Sosban Fach"
@@TheWelshViking Thanks! Keep up the great work!!
Very interesting, thanks!
Great video. Always enjoy your work.
Thanks again for your great channel!
The only fake news I want to hear?
Cleary argued. Thank you
The chemical coating is probably to age the paper, and or the ink, so it looks older than it is.
or to keep it from shattering the second someone tried to write on in
I used to teach World History here in the US, and they had the Vinland Map in the textbooks. What’s horrible is that there was no mention of the map possibly being fake. However, I do live in Texas, and the rumors of being backwards and ignorant are true.
Thank you sassy Jimmy!
I love that map!
(The Norway snoot one ;) )
Well, that is a bummer… the history/fantasy in the Assassin’s Creed video games is now that much more diminished… or is it?
This doesn't mean that Norsemen didn't go to America, we know they did and have found their settlements. Just that this one map was a poorly made fake.
If you wanted to grift a university, at least put some effort into it. But I guess it doesn't matter if you get your money and stay anonymous.
Forgot to add... thank you for another great video. Silly Yale.
brutal, ugly, fella books... that's where I want ter live ;D
that 1 dislike is from yale
HAH! No tenure for me!
@@TheWelshViking Eh... Yale's not all it's cracked up to be from the looks of things :).
What a saga!
Good points at the end about how hoaxes cost that could go to real artifacts. How about a video on Piltdown?
You know, the chemical "glycerol monostearate" that is cited is not the most interesting thing about the chemical analyses, to me was the presence of oxidized copper and iron oxides. It is a weak theory but glycerol monostearate (GMS) is used for lots of things including "an emulsifying agent for oils", while the presence of metal based oxide contaminants sound suspiciously like paint pigments. Together that sounds to me like an oil paint based weathering, or something like an antiquing fluid (for paintings, not metal). Normally with these things, you would use mineral spirits to thin the mixture, and mineral spirits are used in woodworking to help oil based stains set into the wood...
So... I think the author of the Vinland Map took regular paper, soaked it in a home-made antiquing/ weathering wash, and then left the paper to dry before putting ink on it. Leaving behind the GMS and assorted pigments that were used to stain the paper.
If that doesn't make sense then please ignore me.
As far as I know the parchment itself is a lot older, but has been tampered with using this monostearate and the weathering mixture as you mention. But then, why bother if it's old already?
Super weird stuff! This is an aspect of the case I hadn't even thought about!
Can't stop shaking my head over all the nonsense.
Definitely fake , no fast travel points and quest markers
Sassy Jimmy is hilarious!
With that cleared out of the way, would you talk about Vikings in North America some time in the future? 🤔😲
Really enjoy your videos.
Thank you!
You mean to tell me that Colin Taber's the markland sagas isn't absolutely historically accurate? YOU'RE DEAD TO ME 🤣🤣😭🥺🤣🤣 fun book series though.
10:27 aaaand there it is, lol
It's also worth noting that while Vikings had contact with asia minor (Turkey) it is exceptionally unlikely that even with the silk road and other such passages into china and the far east, that the pacific islands of Taiwan, Japan, etc wouldn't have even been featured in a Norse map merely for the point that... the Vikings never ventured into the pacific lol.
fake too he'll find it out as well
@@cornbreadfedkirkpatrick9647 um.... huh?? Im not sure what you're saying. we have archaological artifacts and manuscripts that prove Ottomans and Vikings did buisness with each other and interacted. The Norse had settlements in France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, North Africa.... China, Japan and S.E Asia at the time, were dominated by powerful empires of their own. Europeans never settled the pacific prior to the 1700s at the earliest. sorry to burst your bubble there.
@@mroldnewbie Well whatever empire was in Turkey at the time. near eastern histories are not my strong point.
@@mroldnewbie i knew it was one of the two. :) thanks for the correction
you'd think the guy who made this bogus map would have done a bit more research
Right? Lazy forgers!
Ego’s wasting money, as per usual.
Does anyone recognize the theme music for this channel?
So is there a real map they had during the period they went to vinland/greenland?
Probably not tbh, but we'll probably never know unfortunately
Next, Piri Reis! Fact or fantasy?
i think another way to get black ink is inkcap mushrooms, but im pretty sure its not that either... low effort fake.
New video! 🙌
*does a dance*
This map is so obviously fake just looking at it with your eyes, it’s astonishing anyone was willing to spend money on it. Who made that decision? A lot of wishful thinking going on in that person’s head