One thing I noticed on all pressure vessel lids is that the open threaded end of the valve assembly is facing directly downwards. Upon restoring ambient pressure the air rushes at taifun speeds throug that very open end, blowing the resin outwards. The reason is simple: There is no deflection unit anywhere. Adding a simple deflector disc will cannel the air in all directions across the surface area of your lid before being redirected downwards the vessel chamber wall, greatly reducing the airspeed and force applied. This will also prevent lightweight objects being tossed and justled uncontrollably. I have seen food-grade vaccuum chambers equipped with cover plate on the inlet port that prevent F5 tornado speeds inside the chamber as the vaccuum is destroyed.
Easily my favorite video you've done to date. After having spent years of my career working on high vacuum equipment (Varian, Oerlikon,etc...doing cvd, e-beam, resistive evap, ion bombardment densification, etc...) , I can appreciate the trials and challenges of achieving and maintaining any level of vacuum in vessels of all different shapes and sizes. It is simply harder than one might imagine. (3 X 10^-6 Torr in a 125 cubic foot chamber anyone?)
Thank you, glad you enjoyed my pain. :) It's funny (maybe) how often I end up spending more to make something myself than just buying it. I could always start by buying, but then I'd miss out on the learning and skill development which is really most of the fun for me. Often the quality ends up better, but even if it doesn't the satisfaction of knowing I did it and learned along the way is way better than the convenience of clicking the buy now button. The physics of pressure and vacuum are amazingly powerful when you can harness them. Thanks for watching and the nice comments!
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Agreed. It just occurred to me that if one were confined to the genre of kitchen implements to make a vacuum chamber, perhaps an old pressure cooker pot might be an option? Nice, thick pressure rated walls, built in o-ring gasket, locking lid, and in many cases, pipe thread tapped holes in the lid? I love doing projects like this. I vote for more videos like this one.
Can you provide a list of good resources for getting into vacuum tech and engineering? I would like to build particle experiments, fusors, mini particle accelerators at some point but getting and maintaining a vacuum seems like an enormous mountain to climb. The fusor forums are a good place to start and have a lot of info but their advise isn't helpful with sorting out things like all these new compact gauges and very cheap pumps available.
Hi. I used an old pressure cooker which was cast alumilun. I also put the fittings in the side of the pressure pot so that there is less stress to the perspex at the drill site. Works perfectly
Keep in mind that, for Cactus Juice and other hydrocarbon or alcohol solvent-based applications, you should use a glass cover, NOT acrylic or polycarbonate. Those chemicals attack the plastics on a microscopic scale, resulting in crazing, the formation of tiny cracks in the plastic. Such damage can cause the lid to fail, catastrophically, under vacuum. Changing to a glass lid will also means you'll have to relocate the vacuum port to the side of the pot. Drill your hole about 3/4 the way up from the bottom and use a bulkhead fitting to seal the entry point (the pot walls are too thin to thread a fitting in). FYI, the plastic lids are fine for degassing epoxy, silicone, plaster, and other materials that don't contain the above solvents.
I know I'm a little late to the show but this is also a problem for some pumps. The off-gassing from some resin reactions can damage the interior workings of a vacuum pump. ... That said, I've never used cactus juice but my understanding is it doesn't react until it is heated. Should be safe there. Just wanted to throw that out there.
@@weathormantom7206 I just bought an Amazon vacuum chamber and pump. They specifically state that it is not suitable for stabilizing wood. Not every brand states that, but that's why some kits come with tempered glass lids.
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Ha ha! Where have you been all m y life? So now I'm trying to get all the parts to convert a pressure cooker to a vacuum chamber. But the fittings' names aren't always standardized: i.e., a '1/4" male to 1/4" flare adapter connector.' It's a puzzle game! Happy New Year!
@@skyeridley7764 Funny, but it's even worse than that in that there are many standards but they're not compatible with one another. You need to pick one system and get everything that goes together. It's ideal if you can find someone at a good hardware store that knows what they're doing. Good luck, you got this...
If you have used for a while you will learn that the hole (if in the top) should be on the side. If you have a large container of resin and then open to allow air back in, if that "blows" on the product, it can splash all over the interior. That was MY mistake. Good video though, and why my next one may be purchased. 🙂
I bought a pressure pot from harbor freight for 105.00 replaced the fitting for vacuuming. Total cost$ 142.60,works great.i have a 2 stage 3 cfm vacuum pump from my A/C days,now retired.
Save yourself hassle, get a metal open head handled bucket and lid. Pressing down on it when you start is all that is required other than making it so the hose attachment hooks to a hose head.
A quick question mate, wondering how did you manage to get such a perfectly round head? With such a perfectly round head you surely will be able to tolerate a lot of pressure :) by the way loved you pot video too. Thumbs up ;)
Hello! I'm about to make my own too but I'm guessing which height the lid should work for that? I'm thinking 1/2" acrylic... How's the lid from the Amazon you bought? Great video btw, I'm sure I'll make some mistakes too, but hopefully they'll be different from yours lol Thanks!
The Amazon one is cheap but gets the job done. I agree, 1/2 inch is probably the minimum appropriate thickness. Best of luck, hope you're more successful than I was. 😉
@@Lizartemis I don't think it'd likely have the required hoop strength even with reinforcement. It could be fun to try as long as you're careful with your safety precautions.
Good question, I'm not sure. In addition to being too thin, it was also formed with a round indentation in the bottom which certainly didn't help under vacuum. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Can anyone steer me toward an understanding of the parameters of designing and building a vacuum chamber proportioned approximately like a book or thick magazine? I imagine a vessel welded of relatively thin steel plates with stiffening ribs welded to the outside and heated to about 180 degrees F.
jeff marx: Relatively soft North American hardwood cutting boards could be improved by using a higher temperature formulation of adhesive, subjecting them to a vacuum to draw out the inter? intra? cellular air, flooding them with a molten oil and wax blend, releasing the vacuum so the wax is drawn deep into the wood, then draining off the excess wax... kind of like phenolic impregnation, I think.
@@markkoons7488 That's likely true, thanks Mark. Many of us who make cutting boards generally submerge in mineral oil to impregnate followed by molten mineral oil w beeswax. Probably doesn't meaningfully change the hardness but creates a nice, safe, maintainable product. Ocassionally adding oil/wax is all it takes to keep in great shape.
I did not read other comments but I wanted to address the cracks in the lid. DO NOT BUY AN ACRYLIC LID! PERIOD! It is fine for degassing but not for voc chemicals, they WILL crack..... Buy a chamber with a GLASS LID! Make sure that it is stated that it is safe for cactus juice or that it is GLASS, and thick glass!
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New and better mistakes, love it.
Thank you! :)
One thing I noticed on all pressure vessel lids is that the open threaded end of the valve assembly is facing directly downwards. Upon restoring ambient pressure the air rushes at taifun speeds throug that very open end, blowing the resin outwards. The reason is simple: There is no deflection unit anywhere. Adding a simple deflector disc will cannel the air in all directions across the surface area of your lid before being redirected downwards the vessel chamber wall, greatly reducing the airspeed and force applied. This will also prevent lightweight objects being tossed and justled uncontrollably.
I have seen food-grade vaccuum chambers equipped with cover plate on the inlet port that prevent F5 tornado speeds inside the chamber as the vaccuum is destroyed.
Interesting observation, thank you.
Nice work. Some people always give the illusion everything always work first time but not you. Thanks
Hah, no. I make plenty of goof ups but try not to repeat them. Thank you!
Easily my favorite video you've done to date. After having spent years of my career working on high vacuum equipment (Varian, Oerlikon,etc...doing cvd, e-beam, resistive evap, ion bombardment densification, etc...) , I can appreciate the trials and challenges of achieving and maintaining any level of vacuum in vessels of all different shapes and sizes. It is simply harder than one might imagine. (3 X 10^-6 Torr in a 125 cubic foot chamber anyone?)
Thank you, glad you enjoyed my pain. :) It's funny (maybe) how often I end up spending more to make something myself than just buying it. I could always start by buying, but then I'd miss out on the learning and skill development which is really most of the fun for me. Often the quality ends up better, but even if it doesn't the satisfaction of knowing I did it and learned along the way is way better than the convenience of clicking the buy now button. The physics of pressure and vacuum are amazingly powerful when you can harness them. Thanks for watching and the nice comments!
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Agreed. It just occurred to me that if one were confined to the genre of kitchen implements to make a vacuum chamber, perhaps an old pressure cooker pot might be an option? Nice, thick pressure rated walls, built in o-ring gasket, locking lid, and in many cases, pipe thread tapped holes in the lid? I love doing projects like this. I vote for more videos like this one.
@@75blackviking Good thought! I screw up a lot, so will plan to highlight more in future videos. Thanks!
Can you provide a list of good resources for getting into vacuum tech and engineering? I would like to build particle experiments, fusors, mini particle accelerators at some point but getting and maintaining a vacuum seems like an enormous mountain to climb. The fusor forums are a good place to start and have a lot of info but their advise isn't helpful with sorting out things like all these new compact gauges and very cheap pumps available.
Thanks, I was thinking of a plastic pot good thing I saw your video before even trying it.
😁
Hi. I used an old pressure cooker which was cast alumilun. I also put the fittings in the side of the pressure pot so that there is less stress to the perspex at the drill site. Works perfectly
Excellent, thank you!
Keep in mind that, for Cactus Juice and other hydrocarbon or alcohol solvent-based applications, you should use a glass cover, NOT acrylic or polycarbonate. Those chemicals attack the plastics on a microscopic scale, resulting in crazing, the formation of tiny cracks in the plastic. Such damage can cause the lid to fail, catastrophically, under vacuum. Changing to a glass lid will also means you'll have to relocate the vacuum port to the side of the pot. Drill your hole about 3/4 the way up from the bottom and use a bulkhead fitting to seal the entry point (the pot walls are too thin to thread a fitting in). FYI, the plastic lids are fine for degassing epoxy, silicone, plaster, and other materials that don't contain the above solvents.
Great tips, I wasn't aware of that issue with plastic lids and cactus juice - thanks!
I know I'm a little late to the show but this is also a problem for some pumps. The off-gassing from some resin reactions can damage the interior workings of a vacuum pump. ... That said, I've never used cactus juice but my understanding is it doesn't react until it is heated. Should be safe there. Just wanted to throw that out there.
@@weathormantom7206 I just bought an Amazon vacuum chamber and pump. They specifically state that it is not suitable for stabilizing wood. Not every brand states that, but that's why some kits come with tempered glass lids.
Wow, this is really helpful to me; you saved me from making the same type of vacuum chamber. Much appreciated!
Thanks for watching and commenting. Any time I can screw up so you don't have to, I'm happy to oblige.
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Ha ha! Where have you been all m y life? So now I'm trying to get all the parts to convert a pressure cooker to a vacuum chamber. But the fittings' names aren't always standardized: i.e., a '1/4" male to 1/4" flare adapter connector.' It's a puzzle game! Happy New Year!
@@skyeridley7764 Funny, but it's even worse than that in that there are many standards but they're not compatible with one another. You need to pick one system and get everything that goes together. It's ideal if you can find someone at a good hardware store that knows what they're doing. Good luck, you got this...
@@JeffMarxWoodworking Thanks!
If you have used for a while you will learn that the hole (if in the top) should be on the side. If you have a large container of resin and then open to allow air back in, if that "blows" on the product, it can splash all over the interior. That was MY mistake. Good video though, and why my next one may be purchased. 🙂
Yikes, thanks for sharing that heads up!
Appreciate the honesty.
Of course, always! We all make plenty of mistakes - why not collectively benefit from the education they provide? Thanks for watching and commenting.
It obviously wasn't my plan, but I have another "learn from my mistakes" video coming this Friday. I hope not to have too many of them. :)
I bought a pressure pot from harbor freight for 105.00 replaced the fitting for vacuuming. Total cost$ 142.60,works great.i have a 2 stage 3 cfm vacuum pump from my A/C days,now retired.
Fantastic, nicely done!
Acrylic will develop cracks, especially if hot resin splashes on it. I think you need tempered glass to avoid cracking.
Thank you, you're right about acrylic not being the ideal material.
and maybe some distance between the ball valve (ie your hand) and the pot?
New and better mistakes :D
Always! :)
Did you have to clean off the vasaline from the silicone after you made the gasket?
I did, but it's probably not critical outside of potentially getting a little messy. Thank you for watching!
Great video thank you man
Thank YOU!
Save yourself hassle, get a metal open head handled bucket and lid. Pressing down on it when you start is all that is required other than making it so the hose attachment hooks to a hose head.
Sounds like a simple solution, thank you!
Thanks you❤
Thank you!
A pressure cooker is a good choice for this application..
good idea, and they're probably easy to find for cheap. Thanks
I would use a pressure cooker/canner.
Interesting idea, thanks.
Damn how big is your vacuum pump ?
It's just a little baby guy. It doesn't take much power to create a catastrophic failure under vacuum. Thanks for watching and for your question.
A quick question mate, wondering how did you manage to get such a perfectly round head? With such a perfectly round head you surely will be able to tolerate a lot of pressure :) by the way loved you pot video too. Thumbs up ;)
Thank you, I appreciate it!
Hello! I'm about to make my own too but I'm guessing which height the lid should work for that? I'm thinking 1/2" acrylic... How's the lid from the Amazon you bought? Great video btw, I'm sure I'll make some mistakes too, but hopefully they'll be different from yours lol Thanks!
The Amazon one is cheap but gets the job done. I agree, 1/2 inch is probably the minimum appropriate thickness. Best of luck, hope you're more successful than I was. 😉
Will wood work as an alternate container?
I don't believe that wood alone will hold pressure, thanks!
@@JeffMarxWoodworking if I added silicone and putty to reinforce the wood?
@@Lizartemis I don't think it'd likely have the required hoop strength even with reinforcement. It could be fun to try as long as you're careful with your safety precautions.
What was the thickness of bottom in the wessel that crumbled?
Good question, I'm not sure. In addition to being too thin, it was also formed with a round indentation in the bottom which certainly didn't help under vacuum. Thanks for watching and commenting!
you should use the body of a pressure cooker i think.
That seems like a good idea, at least they're built for pressure so likely would hold up to reasonable vacuum. Thank you
Was the compressor emptied of oil that it came with?
I try to always check that the oil level in my vacuum pump is correct. I didn't lose any oil in this misadventure. Thanks!
Nice
Thank you!
Hi sir witch selecon u using can you tell me please
I believe it was Permatex high temp RTV Silicone gasket. Thanks for watching and commenting!
thank you
Thanks for watching and commenting - I really appreciate it!
Can anyone steer me toward an understanding of the parameters of designing and building a vacuum chamber proportioned approximately like a book or thick magazine? I imagine a vessel welded of relatively thin steel plates with stiffening ribs welded to the outside and heated to about 180 degrees F.
Not me. Look for a pneumatic engineering specialist for that one. Good luck. What's your application for that chamber!
jeff marx:
Relatively soft North American hardwood cutting boards could be improved by using a higher temperature formulation of adhesive, subjecting them to a vacuum to draw out the inter? intra? cellular air, flooding them with a molten oil and wax blend, releasing the vacuum so the wax is drawn deep into the wood, then draining off the excess wax... kind of like phenolic impregnation, I think.
@@markkoons7488 That's likely true, thanks Mark. Many of us who make cutting boards generally submerge in mineral oil to impregnate followed by molten mineral oil w beeswax. Probably doesn't meaningfully change the hardness but creates a nice, safe, maintainable product. Ocassionally adding oil/wax is all it takes to keep in great shape.
I did not read other comments but I wanted to address the cracks in the lid. DO NOT BUY AN ACRYLIC LID! PERIOD! It is fine for degassing but not for voc chemicals, they WILL crack..... Buy a chamber with a GLASS LID! Make sure that it is stated that it is safe for cactus juice or that it is GLASS, and thick glass!
Thank you Mark!
Did you get the Amazon one replaced?
Yes, thank you. They sent me a replacement and it's worked well so far. I used it in this video: ruclips.net/video/nqAA6xyALBQ/видео.html Jeff
i dont make mistakes
Um, I think I have some pictures that might suggest otherwise. :)