LOKI: What Happens Next In the Broken AVENGERS ENDGAME Timelines? | Marvel Theory breakdown
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- Опубликовано: 10 июн 2021
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Avengers endgame left several plot threads dangling that the Loki show is going to tie together. Did Steve Rogers create an alternate timeline when he went back to live with Peggy Carter? What happens in these separate realities after the Avengers stole their infinity stones? Even without Ultron or Thanos’s snap, each one of these realities was headed for a catastrophe--and it was all Tony Stark’s fault.
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Written and Edited by Pavel Terehovsky (pavel8866.wixsite.com/pavelt) ( / @alexluthor4057 )
Hosted by Ryan Arey ( / ryanarey )
#Loki #BrokenTimelines #AvengersEndgame 
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What do you think happened to all of these broken timelines?
Reset
Love this video! You keep killing it! I think they were meant to happen because they utilize weapons etc. things that come from those timelines themselves as the TVA.
Is a new branch created by removing the infinity stone or travel back to time?
Great video and incredibly well done. But...doesn't this kind exemplify how selfish the main time line characters are? To save their versions they were willing to create all these timelines and set them all up for doom. To save 4 billion on earth and half of everyone everywhere else they risked countless of billions of others
Cool video, but still not right. Traveling to the past doesn't create a branch. Removing the stones did, but captain WAS able to return to the same branches he created and returning the stones was similar to pruning or curving the branch back to the sacred timeline. They didn't create 11 branches. They made 5 branches that were corrected and 1 where Loki is right now. The TVA is also able to move through time without creating extra branches. It's the nexus events that are issues. So it's more likely an evil loki came from Captain's perfect timeline. Or even more likely that there's a lot of time issues going on the background since evil loki has been killing at least 7 teams of minute men and the TVA is keeping the major issues and extra time lines secret
This just makes me really want to see a D+ series with Cap returning the stones and interacting with the TVA to do so.
Well he wouldn’t have interacted with the tva because what he did was supposed to
Happen
he’s doing his thing thinking he’s saving those timelines and the TVA is just right behind him deleting those timelines once he’s done with them
@@kintsugikame yeah the tva must be gone by the end of the series if all this multiverse of madness stuff is happening and that would have to happen for Spider-Man 3 to make sense
@@GOOBANGI I’m really hoping the Lokis team up and overthrow the TVA in this show 🤞
edit: I think the evil variant Loki is just a future version of the present Loki
Like so fucking badly do I want to see that story....
Gosh… i would love the “What if” series to dive into these possibilities.
This is “a what if story”
It’s coming just pray they don’t it with animation
I wish we could get “Clone Wars” styled animation, but I’m sure that won’t happen…
It would be collosal mess trying to keep track...
I liked how the judge was so impatient like time isn’t on her side lol
That’s cuz it’s not!! Lmao
She knew a copy of him is killing the agents.
Becouse the judge has a connection to Kang the conquer in the comics 😂
@@joshbrosh6626 really?
@@trtyrn7703 yes Ravonna Lexus renslayer is the woman Kang was after in the comics heck even in Lego marvel 2 yes I've played it she's his wife
No. The main timeline continues as it was intended. The changes only exist on the branch. That's why they simply delete the branch and everyone and everything on that branch is pruned and "reset".
Then why did they even take Loki to court
They could have just deleted whole branch with Loki in it
@@aryavart532 that makes sense
@@aryavart532 the branch got reset means that branch has loki now. So they can't take this loki to that branch
@@aryavart532 Because the TVA is a bureaucracy with rules and laws that it must follow. Regardless if it is justifiable or meaningful.
@@bullymaguire_005Except there is no branch. Them resetting with that device completely clipped that branch off
You forgot the timeline where hawkeye took his son’s baseball glove leading to them having to buy a new one
Or his son just grows out of baseball and never goes pro. Good job Hawkeye.
No one saw him also no infinity stones.
@@pinaka5461 so what? He took that glove means his son will try to find it. This minor thing will create an alternate timeline.
@@bullymaguire_005 gloves are infinity stones? 🤦♂️
@@pinaka5461 infinity stones? Anything matters
6:12 Remember that, whenever Ryanaery shows his face, it is an advertisement!😂
So the beginning of this video is an advertisement?
@@NobaraGamezzz an advert for Marvel, Disney, and the Loki products.
And people say the X-men timeline is too confusing
The X Men timeline is not confusing at all. It makes zero sense and changes from film to film to support that film with no regard to what came before. (I gather you are speaking of the X-Men Cinematic Universe from Fox). It is akin to using an orange to drive a Jeep.
@@nathanmcmahan3137 are you referring to the decade hopping? Because the only thing confusing about that is how magneto aged 30 years and still looks relatively similar. Other than that the timeline is not that confusing. Also the films don’t just disregard everything last film set up if anything the mcu does that
@@rosshauler7688 Nah. Star Wars does that
@@nathanmcmahan3137 not really aside from the sequels every film builds off of the last. I’m not saying the mcu always does that but there are so many films that are practically forgotten by the next
@@rosshauler7688 True enough. The sequels built from imagination and created circumstances just to provide a showcase for the ever present 'hey, this looks cool.' But that has been beat to death in multiple genre websites and chat forums all across the interwebs. The MCU adjusts to an over arching master plan based in real time and on real life circumstances as well as it is able given the nebulous nature of a decade long 22 film omnibus. They won't always mesh. The Fox X-Men films were utter garbage when it came to any kind of true master plan or recognizable continuity. Again, entire websites and endless rants have been devoted to those follies and foibles. At least the MCU has enough foresight to offer reasonable comic book logic explanations and keep the proceedings entertaining, lively and engaging.
In other news, if you are trying to make real world logical sense out of time travel, cosmic entities, multiverse and alternate dimensions based on a 40 plus year old comic book empire, well, have fun with that.
"There's a new branching timeline that needs our help, I'll mark it on your map"
-Preston Carvey & The Minutemen
Miss this meme
Ah dang when they first called him a variant I was thinking Deviant. Got weirdly interested
😂😳
You are pissing me with that Coin,
Connor
@@aryavart532 you cannot kill me, im not alive
the branches were closed, what are you talking about?!?
Extra RUclips views.
Avengers/good guys have plot armor
they were closed when they brought back the stones. Which is why i find it weird that loki was arrested like 10 seconds after he stole the stone..
@@lostmarimo That was a different timeline. The stone Loki stole couldn't have been returned to his timeline since he was running free with it. The TVA had to arrest Loki and completely destroy that timeline.
@@lostmarimo Because Loki wasnt arrested for stealing the stone, he was arrested for doing something that wasn't in line with what he was supposed to do on the Sacred Timeline, which just so happened to be him picking up the stone. That whole drawer of infinity stones scene was meant to tell us that the stones really don't have any importance in this story.
Her: "how do you plead?"
Loki: "madam, gods don't plead."
How is Loki even a GOD
He is like just a Superhuman with Magic
Nowhere near God
They do dirty to Loki
@@aryavart532 Well he's literally just a frost giant runt. He's weak.
@@aryavart532 because loki in mythology was considered a god? Lmao
@@aryavart532 loki considers himself as a God. Thor considers (more or less) himself as a God. Odin was wise enough to understand that from their visits to earth (atleast in the mcu) they were given the status of God's by the humans. Just like how some eternals were given the status of God by the humans.
@@aryavart532 of course, there is only one actual entity who created everything in the whole marvel omniverse (includes dimensions like time too) ; The one above all. He can control anything and everything in the mcu, comics, fox universe, raimi universe basically anything related (canon or not) to marvel. But it's explained in the comics that he often doesn't interfere.
Maybe after each return of a stone, TVA shows up and just resets that time line
That’s my theory as well. Or, quite weirdly enough, they wanted the universes in those timelines the Avengers stole the stones from to be destroyed.
I’m not buying that TVA is for the betterment of every timeline. They maybe wanted Strange to see only one win out of 14 million possibilities, because that win would destroy universes in timelines they didn’t want to play out.
nahh . the timeline where the Avengers go to he past and use and return the stones are part of the pre ordained path simple as that. the TVA doesnt have a problem with those.
Not all branch timelines are NO go for the TVA. only ones that "Stray too far" from the path. like loki escaping . like episode 1 says. loki's existence was meant so that others can be better versions of themselves . has strayed from that path. so many people will no be the better versions of themselves mainly the avengers and Thor. and that will fuck up the scared timeline so the TVA has to intervene kill off that time line that differs too much from the ordained path.
Our timeline was fixed by them returning all the stones, that is at least up until Loki disappears in the Avenger 1 movie. So everything after 2012 should be way different since the space stone is gone and Loki was never returned. All the timelines that were created by the Avengers taking the stones from the past were supposedly fixed by the TVA "resetting" them. At least that's how I take it. But Steve still created an alternate timeline by going back to live with Peggy even after all the stones were returned. So after taking all those stones back Steve STILL F@#!ED the timeline if you think about it. LMAO
@@guyincognito82 there is tons of alternate universes in existence , it’s only a problem if you stray to far away from the right path. As far as I understand it, him doing that wasn’t messing up the planned timeline so no problem with it
Didn’t they show a clip that says they reset the timeline with the original Loki, and the Loki that broke the timeline gets reset? So therefore the timeline is good, but the variant is removed and replaced ?
I believe you're correct, except I think technically they reset an alternative 2012 timeline, which started as soon as Loki picked up the tesseract and so that's why the original timeline was unaffected. (I was a little confused by that myself, I guess you could say they were both the exact same Loki in the same timeline, up until the moment Loki picked up the Tesseract, which created an alternative timeline)
Yep they did. The variety 2012 timeline was erased or whatever the TVA does to fix things.
I believe so that's why they said he "couldn't return". Thats the only reason I would think, unless they're rendering to something else
@@nbasizzlereels5315 he can't return cause he already slipped out of his supposed path. He just can't get back to it, especially when he got to know his supposed future from the main timeline
Now I’m confused again.
2012 timeline was rebooted by the timekeepers after capturing Loki, right? That one was corrected.
After capturing Loki, their "reset" bomb destroyed the timeline, that alternative universe and people in it are gone, disintegrated.
@IVAN PASCUAL DEL POBIL Tony and Steve then travel to the 70s for another crack at the Tesseract after Loki steals the 2012 one, so did the TVA delete all that, or does Loki just keep Space Stoning himself back to that same point until the 2012 can recollect him and align with the end of the first Avengers movie?
The avengers must have left that universe and its timeline before the pruning process was completed. We saw the TVA themselves doing this - they simply travelled back to the TVA HQ before the pruning process was completed (1500s France, 2012, etc.). Considering Loki was on the other side of the planet after using the space stone, it adds up.
@@freerider_piccolo The 1970 timeline was changed the least. Perhaps not enough to need a reset since all the did was talk to some people and steal Pym particles. That does not mean that it would have started WWII given that spies stole things all the time during this era and Hydra hadn't the numbers to pull something like that off yet or the desire for nuclear war.
Loki created a new timeline, TVA deleted that only and nothing else. You guys are overcomplicating things. And usually they kill the Variant straight away or use them for the TVA.
So avengers went to past and loki escaped to nowhere because that nowhere is gone. And finally timeline is restarted so the new loki is there and no Loki is missing. That specific timeline was restarted and the loki that escaped is just extra.
If the Loki escapes again from that restarted timeline then new branch will create and TVA will do the same again.
And what about the "Reset this timeline" said by the officer after they arrested Loki?
To me, this "reset" turned all back in that reality, even a 'new' Loki. Thats why this particular Loki we are watching is a "variant", he don't belong to any timeline anymore (since other replaced him).
Or this "reset" might mean that this branch is just merged into the main time flow
I assumed reset means destroy that timeline entirely. When they reset in the Church at France Mobius seems sad that the reset is going to happen. Even telling the kid "It's okay". Basically the whole branch timeline is a variant of the original timeline. And you trim the branches by destroying them.
It basicly erases that branched time-line so this loki is a variant just like the space stone and all infinity stones in the tva they
A lot of people don't know that the stones out of their universe are useless and the stones from the erased timeliness are without an universe hence they are useless
@@joshbrosh6626 So, that means, if one particular individual messes with time, the whole universe of that particular timeline pays the price. And even there is the possibility for that certain individual who caused all of this chaos could be freed or escaped. How fair!
@@balajid3757 yes the whole branched time-line gets reset aka erased and u can see how this connects to Dr strange 2 and ant man 3
I think it mean destroy that time line.
how can they reset turn back that timeline without the loki of that timeline ?
that bomb probably destroys the entire universe of that timeline
Reset Loki = Kill Loki (rewatch when loki ask if mobius if he was taking him to a place to kill him and he replied that court house was the place people were killed )
but the others phrase it as reset.
Reset timeline = destroy timeline
None of the Avenger's time travel, created ANY new timelines.
For a new timeline to take hold, it needs to reach the "redline."
Steve replaces all the stones before that happens.
The stone is replaced and the timeline snaps back in place.
The one time something happened to create an branch the Avengers can't fix, Loki taking the tesseeract, the TVA cleaned it up.
what does that mean for gamora
@@JollyGoodShowz That after she (along with Thanos and his army) left, and Steve returned the stone, the timeline reset with them all still there, and the timeline plays out as it did.
Everyone who came to the future is a variant with no timeline. That branch was cut by Steve returning the stone.
Thanos and his army were pruned, leaving only variant Gamora.
If the TVA is leaving her alone, then she is NOT actually a variant, and was meant to come live in the future.
@@CyGea bingo dude. Nice to see people on this channel on the same wave length. Been seeing a lot of people confused over this and saying they broke the MCU.
Good explanation my guy
And what about Steve not coming back after replacing the stones? By staying with Peggy he created a new timeline.
Every stone except the tesseract Loki stole was returned to it's place by Cap therefore all those branches were deleted, and even though Loki did steal the tesseract the TVA recovered it almost immediately, so we can assume that they placed it back (or placed another tesseract back),so for now there aren't any other lingering timelines created from the avenger's time heist.
They didn't place it back, they put it in that drawer because the timeline it's from no longer exists, due to them using that reset device. The avengers were never supposed to get the tesseract from 2012, HOWEVER, Loki being the one to pick it up and run wasn't supposed to be the reason why.
But you can’t change the past, it said. So going back and returning the stones would create more timelines: some where they never came back, and some where they did.
TVA in first Loki episode explained; that isn't how time works. Once a branch in the timeline is created, you cannot travel back to make it disappear.
And a *Branch can be created* by just someone doing something that TVA didn't expect, *you don't need an Infinity Stone* for it.
When TVA speaks of resetting, they mean *they destroy that alternative universe* , the one they didn't approve. They *disintegrate* that alternative world and everyone in it.
@@Sienisota My Theory: I'm thinking them actually destroying these realities, rather than "resetting" like they say they are is going to be the twist that's turns the TVA into more of an antagonistic role. The Time Keepers have been systematically destroying their competition as soon as they pop up. The universes still exist but whatever is in that jar is just killing everything in them
@@Sienisota No, the branches are created when someone takes an infinity stone out of the sacred timeline. So Steve returning the infinity stones at the moment they were taken clipped the branches. That's what the Ancient One warned Banner about. Endgame explained timelines are created when an infinity stone is removed. And the TVA office works had a lot of infinity stones because of this reason.
So for example, Steve going back in time to live with Peggy after he had returned the infinity stones to their proper place did not create an alternate universe. He could live with her however long he wanted. The sacred timeline is kept in tact.
It's the infinity stones. Everything starts and ends with the infinity stones.
Since we see old cap in endgame, having lived his life with Peggy, wouldnt that meant that he actually have been living in hiding in the same universe MCU is in? since he did not create a new timeline?
That's the biggest thing I want answered. Since if he did that in another timeline, he'd get pruned right? Since he is causing a huge variant in that one timeline? Or did they allow this one timeline to branch off just to make sure he gets back?
Yes, he always was there but never interfered because he knew from Bruce and co that if he interferes everything breaks.
@@williampaulsinghharika2627 exactly!
Exactly. That also completes Steve's character arc. He learned the value of not interfering and just let events unfold. Having seen the future, he could do so knowing fully well that all is going to work out just fine.
Also, Steve and Peggy keeping this a secret probably meant that it didn't create a branching reality at all. Therefore, the TVA wouldn't have to interfere. It all makes perfect sense.
There’s a small detail that I think is important regarding the “sacred timeline.” If you notice, the line which represents the sacred timeline is made up of a bunch of threads, and not all of the threads move at identical wavelengths. They are independently moving back and forth across one another. I believe that this represents the fluctuations of time that happen but do not ultimately result in branched timelines. Prime examples being the Avengers stealing all these artifacts from the past, but then subsequently returning them to the same point in space/time that they were stolen.
Because each time you travel into your past, it is traveling into YOUR past, you’re not traveling into an alternate reality past. However, what you do in that past may create a branch, but it doesn’t always necessarily create some massive time variance. Otherwise the TVA would be too preoccupied snipping every single possible action so that only one thing ever happened ever. “That’s the proper flow of time,” refers to big, character defining moments in Loki’s history. Likewise, “the proper flow of time” doesn’t apply to all the minutia of day-to-day life, but it only refers to big, time altering events.
This lines up pretty well with how Agents of Shield did time travel too, they mention a "time stream"
One thing to take into account is that EVERYTHING that happens after Dr. Strange scans the futures HAS to happen; or it won't be the 1 outcome out of 14 million where the Avengers win against Thanos. It must go down EXACTLY the way it does. So, Loki HAS to pick up the Tesseract. But, by doing so, he creates a variant. But, if Loki HAS to pick the Tesseract, why does that violate the Sacred Timeline?
@@terryprentice9657 I mean, given that time travel is involved, its entirely possible that whatever they do in the past doesn't matter beyond them returning with the infinity stones.
@@terryprentice9657 My guess is this - and I may be wrong, I haven’t watched Doctor Strange in a while - The ancient one said she wasn’t able to see past her own death, right?
So maybe Stange wasn’t able to see what happened after he died, but was only able to see what happened after he snapped back into existence. Which means, so long as the Avengers make it back with all the stones, like @pitchblende mentioned, none of those past details were being tracked in Strange’s variant timeline scan.
But that’s just a theory…
13:12 just like eternals said : "throughout the years I have never interfered"....
After Steve brought back the stones, and the minute men might have reset that timeline to close that branch timeline.
That's why TVA arrested Loki, so that they could reset him and reset that branch timeline.
Loki Episode 1 explains that the TVA intervenes when a change is so radical that it causes a new Timeline. Wich means that Steve Rogers somehow got everything back on the rails again and from that on hasnt't done anything good when he went to Peggy Carter and spend the rest of his life there. If he stopped hydra or something like that, that would have created a nexus event and he would have been stopped by the TVA. That hasn't happend because then he would not have come back as a senior in the end of the movie.
Steve went back and did what he was always supposed to do.
Marry Peggy, and make sure the world is covered when Hydra is outed.
Like having a Helicarrier stashed away for Age of Ultron.
(Really ANY of the resources Nick uses after SHEILD falls, up to and including the space station Nick is currently in.)
Making sure Dr. Wendy Lawson/Mar-Vell got her hands on the tesseract.
That Hank and Janet Pym were recruited by SHIELD.
Teaming Nick and Phil together.
Steve can't change things, but he can make sure, things he knows happen, actually happen.
Old Steve could be responsible for so many key moments in the MCU.
@@ViolettaVie OK, but why was Loki prosecuted then?
@@robertmaske2030 That's the question.
So crazy confusing but strangely clear for me 😂 Well done, Ryan! 👏👏👏
I think you're wrong about the industry Stone. Loki had the mind stone in the staff and that was still left in the hands of Shield/Hydra even though he was erased from the time line.
Wouldn’t Steve taking the stones back also make that new timeline go the same way it would’ve because the stone are being returned to the exact point it actually messed up the timeline.
Wouldn't the TVA erase these timelines like the one caused when Loki took the tesseract. Or because cap put the stones back, the timelines would have never been affected that much.
This analysis is (and all others I've seen on this channel are) AWESOME!!! I've subscribed!
This was a very thorough breakdown of the Timelines. Thank you for thinking through the logic of them. Well done.
I laughed so hard when Loki saw all those infinity stones in a wooden DRAW. They also used the stones as a paper weight. 🤣🤣
Thor uses them as Christmas decorations
Oh, the TVA is so powerful. It's lousy storytelling for long term marvel fans, I think. Infinity Gems/Stones are worthless out of their home realities. The TVA exists outside of time and space. Therefore the Stones can't affect them anyway. Skirting the rules in a way that makes them look powerful
Mobius was saying lines that insinuated that the TVA is also shady too.
Awesome job as always bro 👊🏾
This might be your best video. Bravo!
when you watch all of screen crush's videos , but he never has a crush on any screens
Or even crush a screen.
Argument Re: Steve Rogers not being able to hold back from fixing reality. You used his own words, a situation going south he can't help himself. What's further south than destruction of reality? Nothing, so Steve - being the smart guy he is - would probably know that changing any of the things that happened would lead to a worse event, so he was able to stay out of it, using his strength of morals and will to understand and control his own reactions.
Also, living his life anonymously with Peggy wouldn't necesarily break the timeline, since there's nothing we've seen so far that disproves it was Steve that married her. Her TV interview from 1953 only says that one of the men that came back from Steve's rescue mission married her (Steve was one of the men in that group, so technically still true), the pictures when young Steve meets old Peggy only show Peggy and kids, no hubby in pics, so again, nothing to say it's not Steve taking the pictures. After all, you think he could live with Peggy for a lifetime and not tell her about it? her quip "always so dramatic" teasing Steve is probably a bit more familiar in my mind than the relationship young Steve had with young Peggy.
TL;DR Old Steve is now in space, and the Sacred timeline is intact because Old Steve understood how much more scary fixing the bads of history would lead to much worse shit, and he's happily settled into a TVA sanctioned married life with Peggy because he knows that if he does anything, he'll bring forth worse problems. (Plus he's literally served 3 tours of duty and technically died for it at least once, he deserves to retire.)
Peggy isn't the main reason why the captain didn't come back until he was old.
Steve did what he ALWAYS did, as old Steve.
Think "Final Destination" rules, Steve CAN NOT change results, he can only do what he ALWAYS did.
Steve went back and did what he was always supposed to do.
Marry Peggy, and make sure the world is covered when Hydra is outed.
Like having a Helicarrier stashed away for Age of Ultron.
(Really ANY of the resources Nick uses after SHEILD falls, up to and including the space station Nick is currently in.)
Making sure Dr. Wendy Lawson/Mar-Vell got her hands on the tesseract.
That Hank and Janet Pym were recruited by SHIELD.
Teaming Nick and Phil together.
Steve can't change things, but he can make sure, things he knows happen, actually happen.
Old Steve could be responsible for so many key moments in the MCU.
@@CyGea I think the same... I believe that Old Steve got a new position as "Commander" America or something like that to fight back Hydra or any other threat but in a subtle way. However, after the Avengers defeating Thanos in Endgame, he will move to Westview becoming that missing person that the FBI was looking for. It's that or he's in space... lol
Also, I would love to know TVA reached out to Steve and said "hey, Cap, we love you, but keep quiet please"
do you really think Steve thinks he's from the best timeline?
Amazing editing Ryan 👌👌👌
the editing and the those small clips....just a-mazing 😄
I expect we will get a more in depth explanation of time travel in upcoming episodes.
I mean no shit. The director said that
but captain rogers returned each infinity stones right before they were taking it. so this means that the alternative timeline is erased, right?? so no additional timeline after endgame, except Loki.
And Rogers
I wonder though... Given Cap brings back the stones (even if it's possible) to each time / branch just a second later than when he took them, it probably won't save these universes / branches of time.
The big question though, is: does it matter? And also: shouldn't the infinity stones from another time branch not even be able to work in the main timeline (or any other timeline than the one they are from)?
thanks!! was an awesome vidéo!!
They wrote themselves into a corner. The TVA said the Avengers’ travel was like the theory where it always happens. But then everything else is like the multiverse theory. It doesn’t make sense.
I imagine the Thanos event was big enough to be on their radar, and the one solution to the Thanos problem (seeing as Thanos used the time stone, so well within their remit) was to allow it to be reversed. So what the avengers did was essentially undoing already existing time-shenanigans in-universe without their interference. So it works for them, that the universe worked out a way to course correct without them. Therefore letting it incorporate itself into the sacred timeline.
I think the Thanos event is probably the biggest clean-up op they've had to involve themselves in, in a long while.
@@ashleyhoughton8592 but I’m saying they can’t undo it, Ashley. As this video said, they can’t just travel and then have it always be that they traveled. That’s an entirely different theory on how time travel works. It runs entirely counter to a multiverse.
They did the theory where you travel to the past, but really, it’s your future. You were always going to travel to the past. The past happened already with your future self, because it was always going to happen. It’s a time loop.
Versus where you create a new, branching timeline.
@@disguisedcentennial835 yeah I agree, the infinity Saga has probably been the biggest blip on the TVA radar in a hell of a long time. Though for them it might not even seem like it.
But the fact that in order to maintain mainstream normality time ethics even had to get involved, for these guys the infinity stones are probably the run of the mill, like you might get one parking ticket in your life, but the guy giving them gives them multiple times a day, each galaxy deals with one time stone, but the TVA probably deals with these things more often than the base rate
No, actually it makes more and more sense to me.
Let's start with the idea that there is only one timeline(for now): The Sacred Timeline.
What is the Sacred Timeline? The timeline that leads to the creation of the Time Keepers. Whoever they are they are not born yet in 2018. Perhaps they would only be conceived/created 1000's of years into our future, if certain events play out exactly as it is supposed to.
Also note that The Time Keepers, at some point in their own futures would create the TVA to ensure that the Sacred Timeline is regulated and protected to ensure that the Time Keepers themselves are born/created.
My theory is that all the events leading upto Endgame HAD to happen. Because Tony Stark HAD to invent Time Travel. This was possibly an important milestone in human history that was supposed to happen and tied directly to the existence or the abilities of the Time Keepers.
I'm pretty sure that the technology that the TVA uses to travel in time and space is an extremely advanced version of the Time Travel device that Tony created. If Tony hadn't been motivated to create time travel, then the Time Keepers wouldn't exist. The TVA wouldn't exist.
I am also pretty sure that in the MCU, from the big bang to year 2018 AD there was only a single timeline: The Sacred Timeline. The TVA is/was successful in keeping it that way.
However, in the not too distant future a nexus event or multiple nexus events are going to occur. The TVA will fail to reset one or more of them which will lead to a Multiverse of Madness.
The Time Keepers who ever they are will be born/created. They will try to destroy other timelines that threaten their own.
Something bad happens. They are at the verge of being annihilated themselves perhaps. At this point they create the TVA and task them with going back in time and ensuring the regulation of the Sacred Timeline.
See, it's a LOOP.
However, some entities including the Time Keepers and the TVA exist or will gain the ability to exist outside Time & Space(i.e outside the LOOP). They will ultimately decide the fate of the multiple timelines which is going to be soon created in the MCU.
With one timeline, it's a constant timeline.
Everything from the beginning to the end of time has already happened, and will always happen.
In others words, Steve going back to marry Peggy ALWAYS happened.
Haven't you notice that Nick Fury sure does have a lot of resources for a guy who is in charge of a defunct organization?
It's almost like someone knew SHIELD had been infested by Hydra.
And that they could trust Fury.
Old Steve isn't sitting back and doing nothing.
Steve is doing what he ALWAYS did.
Interesting but if we are to believe that Peggy Carter easter egg in episode 1 we can assume Carter is aware of the TVAs modus operandi. Given that Steve already knows the outcome of events and that his whole reason for going back was to be with Peggy and not to change history it would be incredibly selfish to try and alter events knowing damn well it would be total annihilation. Even Banner warned him of the consequences. I like this idea that there is a grey area he can exist in and continue to help by only doing things he was always meant to do.
Not only that but who told Fury and Coulson about where to find Nat, Clint, and even Maria Hill to become Shield agents. It's was probably Old Man Rogers as Peggy Carter Husband.
@@notmephisto1375 that "Peggy" is probably not our Peggy but A Peggy from the What if series if she's even Peggy at all lol.
@@Spidervenom23 well one theory I heard was it was Peggy from the Agent Carter TV show timeline which would be a funny way of saying the old TV canon is being erased but I don't think they would even acknowledge that in an Easter egg. It could be What If.. Peggy but I'm thinking all the multiverse What If scenarios don't currently exist in the timeline, and those universes won't be birthed until after the TVA collapses. What If premieres in August I believe, which would be after Loki wrap, so maybe there is a reason they come out in this order.
@@notmephisto1375 The problem with agent carter not being canon to the mcu is that leaves the door open for Peggy Husband to be a no name character we never seen and that would be kinda lame lol. Agent Carter and to a lesser stint Agents of Shield needs to be canon because they both finished off all of Peggy's boyfriends lol. Also why would they pick her up and not Sousa or Daisy lol.
Something that confuses me is how a loki variant from the same mcu universe looks completely different from the original loki
Dude your gesture while asking to subscribe and your way of talking made me sub, very nice vid and way of telling story.
Screen Crush: Askin' the real questions.
(Although I'm pretty sure Cap returned Thor's replacement Mjolnir since he took it back with the stones.)
But how did he get the Reality Stone Ether back into Jane?
@@Roderickdl Probably wouldn't need to. He'd just get it to where it can be taken again and the events will still sort themselves out in a similar fashion.
I would be more depressed to see the film of my life in a matter of minutes
Damn... That is one detailed video on possibilities, Ryan you sure do have a big brain to make these videos in such a short time
Was waiting for your video!
I have one interesting question that nobody has asked or answered yet if every time you go back in time you create a separate branch how is it Old Man Steve was in the proper timeline as an old man to give the shield falcon if when he went back in time and he stayed there and was with his woman how we're two timelines in the same reality when they're supposed to be different universes different timelines
My hypothesis is that we are no longer watching the “Main” timeline as the audience but a completely different one and this happens AFTER the Loki tv show and them Dr. Strange multiverse of madness will explain this. That’s the only thing I can come up with since you’re are right, it should be two different timelines
Probably we are watching the timeline Steve went to and stayed. But this idea means that the main timeline probably didnt have a Steve that returned? I have no idea
My take is that the TVA isn't there just to trim any and all branched realities as soon as they happen, it is to preserve the Sacred Timeline. If the shield being returned is necessary for the Sacred Timeline to play out as intended, then the reality where Steve lived out his life with Peggy becomes necessary for the Sacred Timeline to continue, thus it is allowed to play out, until Steve comes back to the main timeline. As soon as the Shield is dropped off, then that timeline can be pruned.
@@RayeGunn yeah there's no problem about TVA intervention yet. the problem we are trying to answer first was how come Steve did not go or branch to a different timeline, if travelling to the past creates a different branch. Instead, what happened was he travelled to the past and stayed until the present and it was as if he really existed ever when he showed up as an old man.
@@rexman1231 What I'm saying is that I think it DID create a branch, the TVA just allowed it to continue as a special exception, (though presumably monitoring it closely and pruning any branches that came off of it) because the Captain America shield would have vanished into nothingness otherwise, and that shield would presumably become necessary later in the Sacred Timeline. So cap's shield acted as a shield from the TVA as well.
5:00 but I thought Wanda was a nexus being, the same in every reality?
At least exists in every reality. Which means the mind stone has to make it to earth some way.
@@rexone9564 this gives me a headache 😆
I love your videos 🤩🤩 need more timeline videos ☺️
I like Marvel's concept of Time Travel and Multiverse. Treating time like a grid of predetermined possibility made predetermined by Time Cops who would prevent journey through other grids outside the approved grid, is brilliant.
This video makes zero sense. All broken timelines were fixed when Steve returned all the stones except the one in which he lived and talking about that Loki escaping, that timeline is already reset now by TVA
How about 2014 Starlord who never found Gamora? The stone is back, but Thanos, Gamora and Nebula aren't.
@@carolina3dd the stone was kept at moment it was taken means Thanos, Nebula and Gamora never came here.
No, it actually makes sense. Steve returning the stones doesn't fix the timelines, it makes them worse. I also thought it didn't make sense but, if you really think about it, you'll realise that it is impossible for them to fix a timeline. Because any change that is made in a timeline does not affect that timeline. It only creates another one
@@AnonAnonymousymous That assumes you can't enter a specific timeline. The biggest suggestion that you can is when cap appear in a different spot at the end of Endgame. Suggesting he went back to that specific timeline and possibly adjusted it.
Dormamu's entry is epic 😎
Another great analysis!!
For that last *supposed* branch, where Steve stayed with Peggy; isn’t that essentially confirmed to be part of the Sacred Timeline, given Old Steve’s appearance at the end of Endgame?
No cuz she married the guy from Agent Carter
So "good guys" can mess up with time, but "bad guys" is committing crime if they did the same. Sounds like the reality.
What I don’t understand is how Loki is a variant. They say in the show that the avengers were supposed to do what they did. And these time cops simply decree that teseract loki is bad.
@@rexone9564 Loki in the show is a "variant" because its timeline is not the "sacred" timeline as TVA designated.
@@onetwothreeabc right, so this loki is a victim of the TVA’s meddling. He didn’t actually do anything wrong
@@rexone9564 ok have a look on this one. In scared timeline Loki never escaped(2012 Avengers movie) and time heist happened. But loki escaped so that's why he is a variant.
@@bullymaguire_005 I get that, what I don’t get is that isn’t his fault. He saw an opportunity and took it, and they are going to vaporize him for it?
This is one your best videos ever such details
This is a really great video
There is something you still haven’t answered, if all the timelines end up the same, and when the avengers branched through time much after loki was born, how did that change the gender of Loki into a female version of him?
I think she's from an Alternate Universe, just like how Peter Parker had other self from another universe, with different face and can also be gender, but it doesn't make sense for her to get TVA's attention cuz like she's just a kid back then
If we're going to treat all of these branches as ongoing, then the fitting solution/analogy is they are allowed to grow and then regrafted on the Sacred Timeline. The same would happen for the 2014 time when Thanos comes forward. Every event after that simply doesn't happen. That timeline gets grafted into the Sacred Timeline and continues from there. Again, this flexibility and recursion and grafting MUST happen if what the Avengers did was supposed to happen. If any time shenanigans are allowed (which they must logically be, since a) that'd their job and b) there's always someone messing up the timeline which then needs to be corrected) then they have to make exceptions to correct problems. It's like a tolerance for production. There is a slight time tolerance for corrective action.
How could the entire 2014 timeline be regrafted into the main MCU timeline just because one entity traveled to this timeline? What happened to the rest of the people, objects and even time in 2014?
@@balajid3757 Lol, what are you, a Time Variance Attorney? If you drill down deep enough all fiction falls apart. How did gamma radiation turn a guy with anger issues into a green behemoth? Why is Tony Stark discovering impossible elements? How can a guy made of atoms shrink smaller than atoms? At some point you have to accept a logical enough explanation. The timeline question is fair because Marvel had invited it by introducing multiverses, variants, the TVA, etc. And I'm not saying my explanation is the best one. But it is internally consistent and matches what we have been shown so far.
To attempt an answer that I'm in no way ready to commit to, I suppose that it's like asking what happens to the original blood vessel when you get a bypass. Effectively, nothing because it's blocked. It ceases, and then continues somewhere else. And maybe the handwaved explanation is that if you looked at a world that only existed in 2d then lifted someone out of that, they wouldn't even have a framework in which to contextualize what was happening to them. Same here, but 4d instead.
I don't think the branches are ongoing. They would grow for a certain period of time but would be snipped off/reset before it crosses over a threshold and leads to the creation of another timeline. It would be as if the Nexus event never happened. This is made evident in the animated video at the TVA, in Loki Episode 1.
My understanding is that, when the timeline is reset, the being that created the nexus event is duplicated - one variant would be (ideally)apprehended by the TVA & erased and another version of him/her/it with no recollection of the nexus event would be inserted back into the sacred timeline.
The protagonist of the Loki series is the Loki Variant L1130. Think of it this way, this variant and all variants like him apprehended by the TVA and the TVA themselves exists outside time & space. The TVA has the authority and the power to wipe the apprehended variants or allow them to exist outside time & space provided they are of use to them. L1130 can never go back to his original timeline now.
The Evil Loki variant that Agent Mobius talks about in the 1st episode, chances are the TVA snipped the nexus event that this variant caused and reset the timeline, but they were unable to apprehend this variant. He/she has somehow found a way to exist outside time and space not to mention freely travel in time, creating more nexus events.
bleh. Just let them be their own timelines
Great video per usual
Good video covering things on the short term, I'm pretty sure a few hours could be devoted to each of these other branches considering when the stone was plucked.
Like the one where you mentioned Ultron taking over, since Thor didn't have a hammer to bring Vision to life, would Ultron have even still been created?
Broken timelines?!...After that, I think my brain is broken!! 🤣
Are there multiple Dougs or is he a Nexus being?
Nexus because he invented Rock Paper Scissors
Love your videos I don't leave a comment hardly ever. But at the end when you talked about Star Trek mirror mirror that was the one that probably made me a science-fiction fan for the rest of my life. I probably well 6 years old and I'm 53 now so my love of Science Fiction comic books pretty much came from that one episode period and my love of anything involving time travel. Great video
Screen crush has the BEST analysis on this subject matter!
You forgot one important fact that the ancient one explained to the hulk, when Rogers returned the stones back from where they got them from, all the branching timelines ceased to exist and the main timeline was restored back to the only timeline...
They are not traveling through time so much as traversing the multiverse.
You’ve literally got this so wrong it’s painful.
You honestly think the Sorcerer Supreme would hand over the time stone if it meant her reality would be wiped out?
Yes they returned the stones to just the second they got. So nothing changed. Except loki taking Teseract but TVA reseted that timeline so nothing changed again
BEST AVENGERS VIDEO YET 💯❤❤❤ I have to watch this again and again now to wrap my mind around this!!❤❤❤
Well, whatever rules of time travel have been stated. I am certain it was intended (by the Avengers and the Writers) to return the stones to the exact same timeline where they where borrowed from. Nexus events would only happen if they failed to return them.
What would be the point of returning the stones in the first place if it wasnt possible, and the TVA ereased those lines by default.
However all the timelines stated in this Video would still happen, because the Avengers would fail to return a stone eventualy.
There comes my theory Ryan, that may be the he who remains is actually old man steve, he created TVA to make up for all that shit that his expedition caused. So may be that's why TVA doesn't try the avengers coz the underlying event is the key to their inception.
Like TENET
Where The Protagonist makes the Organisation tenet
That is an interesting theory. However from a story perspective, Steve's story in the MCU is complete. I don't think he would be brought back in future story lines. Perhaps a few passing mentions and cameo appearances are plausible but highly unlikely.
It's more probable that Kang is responsible for the TVA. He is from the future and time travels a lot. He probably created the TVA to ensure that the sequence of events that leads to his conception/creation/birth remains unchanged.
Like Tenet is right. But the protagonist would be Kang and not Steve.
"when you go back in time, you created a branching reality that doesnt effect your original timeline, and therefore nothing changes in your own future."
i want to point one thing that the branching will only happen if you do something that not suppose to happen in the sacred timeline, meaning that even if the avenger go back and forth to the past multiple times, if they didn't do anything, the sacred timeline will not branched. Meaning all the time travel meant to happen (except when Loki grab the Tesseract).
BUT the real question is:
Steve did go back to met Peggy, in which we know that is NOT supposed to happened in the sacred timeline, which means the moment Steve met Peggy, the TVA should immediately appear!
BUT the only counter to this problem is that: in the sacred timeline, Steve was meant to meet Peggy, WHICH MEANS that Peggy actually Marry a 2023 Steve from Endgame (Peggy is married according to CAWS) and later Peggy kept it a secred for her whole life while still be an agent for her whole active times. Meaning all of her bloodline will inherit some of super soldier too. (or it could be that Peggy still marry another person but cheating with Steve (lol)).
edit: grammatical errors
Steve went back and did what he was always supposed to do.
Marry Peggy, and make sure the world is covered when Hydra is outed.
Like having a Helicarrier stashed away for Age of Ultron.
(Really ANY of the resources Nick uses after SHEILD falls, up to and including the space station Nick is currently in.)
Making sure Dr. Wendy Lawson/Mar-Vell got her hands on the tesseract.
That Hank and Janet Pym were recruited by SHIELD.
Teaming Nick and Phil together.
Steve can't change things, but he can make sure, things he knows happen, actually happen.
Old Steve could be responsible for so many key moments in the MCU.
We met Leggy’s husband in Agent Carter, so no. And Steve had sexual relations with her daughter.
@@disguisedcentennial835 Peggy wasn't married anyone in Agent Carter.
Plus, that show isn't part of the MCU timeline. None of the previous TV shows are. Phil is dead, Agents of SHIELD didn't happen either.
Sharon is Peggy's niece (not her daughter), and there is no confirmation of anything more than a single kiss between them. (Steve hadn't interacted with Sharon yet, when he told Nat he had kissed someone since being unfrozen. Implying he's had sex.)
The clip you used from back to the future. Showed the Doc draw the same image Marvel used when they explained timelines in the cartoon, Loki watch in the episode. Well played if that was on purpose
The simple solution to the stone paradox is to return to just before the stones are taken. This does open another scenario though, one where the Soul Stone is left without a guardian (aka Red Skull)... but perhaps that is why the Space Stone transported him there and Captain America really did that return in the 1940s causing that...
That said, the Reality Stone is probably the hardest excuse, even returning it early to the timeline, how does it return into Jane Foster?
The missing Pym Particals seem to be explained in beginning of Ant Man.
Since branches always sprout forward the TVA would probably be resetting/pruning the variations preventing many of the issues you've pointed out.
Steve doesn't make a branch reality it was in the main reality
Returning stones actually creating multiple branches
@@pinaka5461 that is wat the TVA is for
@@alexcross7583 so why loki then?
@@alexcross7583 I have a logical answer.
@@pinaka5461 did u see the episode at all they used a thing called reset charge it resets the time aka logical answer
I’m pretty sure that in all the timelines that were created by the Avengers removing stones, stones were returned to them at the moment they were removed - just not by the Steve that took them. Let me explain.
Prof Hulk explains time travel in terms of individual experience; when YOU travel back in time it doesn’t affect your past - only your relative present.
However the multiverse theory states that there are an infinite number of of “you” in multiple dimensions - all following the “sacred” timeline, as it were.
It’s kind of like a spaceship skip-drive in sci fi: you travel to another place in space not by physically traveling there but by ceasing to exist in your current reality and punching through to another point in space - in a different reality. What’s left behind? Another infinite version of you theoretically.
So when the avengers took the stones from other timelines, they were actually just traveling to other locations in space and time. Not just one set of Avengers did this - infinite Avengers did it. Therefore when one stone was returned to its “original” location, infinite stones were returned to their original locations. In fact, if this was not the case the TVA would be deleting a whole lot more realities because they would be diverting from this series of events.
Anyways, there’s my essay. I’m going to bed now.
Awesome video
My guess is that Steve was operating as a agent of the sacred timeline, like s deputized TVA agent. He was able to go back in time, return the stones at the same moment they were taken WITHOUT creating any additional branch realities. Brings new meaning to the Steve Rogers being known as a "Man Out Of Time". Any wayward deviations from the main sacred timeline were clipped/pruned/reset by the TVA, which is why we have the Loki series to show how they operate.
oooo i love this
This may have been Pavel Terehovsky’s best editing work yet... brilliant
thank youu for including the That 70’s intro ☠️👏🏾
DUDE! I've been telling every damn person who would listen that Steve would never ever just let anything bad happen that he knew was gonna happen. His adopted timeline would've been SO friggin' different, but the fact that he grew to be old and return to his original timeline to pass on the shield means he did end up doing it right. And he's married to Peggy Carter, does anyone think that he wouldn't have told her where he actually comes from? Or that she would allow him to watch anything bad happen that he knew was gonna happen? No friggin' way.
My first thought was that the new evil Loki was the same Loki in the show, but just hadn't traveled back in time yet. It would explain why he's killing the TVA agents and has mastered time travel if he'd been working with them for a while.
Good stuff
OG Steve Rogers messed himself up when he used the scepter on himself, and that Steve Rogers would have woke up to find all of Hydra thinking he knows about them.. 😱
New background music is really good.
I’m keeping my DeLorean in the garage! This stuff is so damn confusing but GREAT at the same TIME😜
I kind of think the Loki in that Castle, took the Time stone and tesseract and thats how he ruled the timeline and changed things and since they have all the stones, they figured out how To "prune" people.
I already love this show
You talked about the mirror universe in Star Trek, there was a pretty good series of books written in the 1990's by William Shatner that talk about why and how the mirror universe formed by the events of the Star Trek: First Contact movie. Including the return of Captain Kirk to the Picard timeline and the meeting up of Old Admiral McCoy, Scotty, and Spock. There is even some hints about V'Ger in those books. If you ever get a chance and want a good read give them a look over, "The Return" is the return of Kirk, and "Spectre" was the series focused around the Mirror Universe with 24th Century Kirk and Picard working together to stop them.
Good video, really well put together! Thanks!!!
There’s a Many Worlds interpretation of Quantum Mechanics that looks a lot like this time travel mess (no wonder they used the Quantum Realm…).
A Quantum experiment got percentages of chance for each outcome… in this Many World interpretation, this Quantum experiment gives all results, but each in a parallel world. Every time a Quantum experiment is observed, creates parallel worlds for each probable result. So, creating new worlds might be common and The Avengers aren’t to blame…
Won’t pretend I know ANYTHING about Quantum Mechanics, it’s just something I saw some time ago at the Veritassium channel.
This was pretty good
I assume the TVA did not stop the Avengers because all they did was based on a plan of Dr Strange, the Sorcerer Supreme and keeper of the time stone. Who likely has a big sign in the TVA saying, do not interfere with what he does, only the bosses are allowed to contact him.
Hey can you explain y Ravina said in episode 3 that HWR created an entity TVA is it alive like miss minutes or is it a being
Thank you for explaining Endgame
This doesn't jive with what the Ancient One said about returning the stones. Wouldn't she know that there'd be more branched timelines even if they returned the stones?
Oh this warm feeling of you understanding events of this complicated and entangled universe, what caused what and what follows what and why and so on... Aaaaand its gone
I am watching Episode two. When they go back to 1985, is that location the Renaissance faire site in Bristol, Wisconsin even thought they are calling it Oshkosh? The buildings look so familiar!
According to Agents of shield, the qauntum realm allows u to travel between timelines which would mean that the stones were returned to the same timeline. Agents of Shield takes place in an alternate timeline too.