MP-28: Hugo Schmeisser Improves the MP18
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- Опубликовано: 21 авг 2017
- The MP28,II was Hugo Schmeisser’s improved take on the original World War One MP18,I design. It used a simple box magazine in place of the Luger drum magazines, and this magazine would form the basis for a long series of military SMG magazines. It was a double-stack, single feed design because Schmeisser thought this would prevent some malfunctions that were possible with double-feed magazines (and because Mauser probably had a patent on the double feed box magazine at the time). This magazine would be used in conversions of MP18 guns, and would also be the model for the MP-38/40 subsequent British Sten gun magazines.
The MP28 also introduced a semiautomatic selector switch, where the MP18 had been a fully automatic only design. It is the presence of this selector button over the trigger, along with a tangent sight instead of a simple flip-up notch that can be used to distinguish between and updated MP18 and an MP28.
While the MP28 was not formally adopted by the German military, it was used by police and SS units, as well as being adopted or copied by a wide selection of other nations, including Portugal, Spain, China, Japan, and Ethiopia.
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6:59 “slower rate of fire”.
Cod WW2: *fires faster than mg42*
Gotta love sledgehammers’ realism
Jerks 3 feet to the left so you can't hit anything unless you shove the barrel up someones ass
@@AnusRipper-2000 even then you'll miss 😂
No it’s 6:58
Yeah half of the guns you need to shove it up their ass to hit anyone with them, thats why bf is better
Its a game. Realism sucks.
As a German native speaker I'm really impressed with how good your German has gotten over the years. I'm subscribed for about five or six years now and you've made quite the progress. That Dauerfeuer was honestly just perfectly pronounced. Keep up the good work (due to my ridiculously low salary I sadly can't afford to be a patreon)
Edited for spelling after @samp4016 kindly pointed out a mistake I initially made.
He pronounced it the way I would when first reading the word. Now I feel proud of my awesome German skills lol
changer spree: Sten Submachine --- Reming. Scoped- TRN.exe.2.exe.exe
“Quite a progress” I’m not trying to be rude but that’s not how English works
@@Gruwg2024its a basic mistake, and it was still perfectly clear what they meant
@@Gruwg2024 yeah well, it happens. Was typing on the fly and (obviously) missed that, but to return your favor of pointing it out I corrected my initial comment.
This channel really is the best on RUclips. Professionally done, very informative, and entertaining. Many thanks to Ian for all his hard work on this series.
Thanks!
It is indeed
If you think it's the best, you haven't seen C&Rsenal... :)
@@PaulVerhoeven2 Ian is still better
You pronounced Dauerfeuer and Einzelfeuer pretty much spot on!
Yup. I'd describe Dauerfeuer as "Dow-er-foy-er" and Einzelfeuer as "In-tsel-foy-er" with the "In" pronounced like the "in" in "grind".
.rzr Yes that's very accurate.
The 1000-meter sight setting was there in case they spotted the HMS Hermes.
"...Adopted in other companies, ehr, countries"
Well on the grand scale of things, you weren't totally wrong with your first choice ;)
Awesome video as always. Thank you for all you do
The Mp28.
When your bad guys in a film need an Smg but it's not ww2 yet.
Just use the thompson
This is what should have been used in "Raiders".
It annoys me that Sledgehammer gave this a silly fake nickname in Call of Duty: WWII, calling it the "Waffe 28". It's not as annoying as them referring to the Lee-Enfield as a "Commonwealth".
Bailey Jones They do that so they don't need to pay royalties as the Lee-Enfield and MP-28 are patented. And calling the Lee-Enfield the "Commonwealth" is reasonable as many commonwealth countries in Europe used the Mk3 and Mk4 rifles.
Richard B. Oh please, those names are no longer patented. Enfield isnt even in business anymore!
The nicknames aren't fake. While the proper name isn't always used, for various reasons such as patents or certain names being umbrella terms when they're using an exact variant (Swat 556), the chosen terminology makes sense and was at one point how the weapons were commonly referred to outside of logistic chains.
Reaper, that's not true. I consider myself a bit of a firearms nerd, and I have never heard of any of these nicknames. I can't even tell what a "Swat 556" _is_ (I just get a vague sense that it uses STANAG magazines)--it's abundantly clear that these nicknames were just made up off-the-cuff with no though to what the weapons were actually called (or even the real nicknames, like "Smelly" for the Lee-Enfield). It's just lazy.
Jonathan Hughes swat 556 is a Sig rifle so you might not be as big of a gun nerd as you thought
That Mr Schmeisser fellow was certainly a clever man to be sure.
Don't forget about mikiael Kalashnikov
Yes, after 7-grade school education and without weapons education, only by reading books and studying at the factory, Mikhail made his first gun, one of the best weapons in the world. With that ability to learn he was smarter than Einstein and the other scientists, wasn't he? And Ak-47 is his only gun. Why didn't Kalashnikov make more weapons?
Роман Попик He did. The PK machine gun was one of the weapons he designed.
TheAKgunner I'm sorry, I missed that fact, but Kalashnikov created AK-47 when was 28 old. Without any educadion and with small amount of expierence.
Роман Попик Yes, I know that. And many other guns throughout his lifetime.
MP-28 'we made an MP-18 with decent mags now'
And semi-auto.
Good video on the MP-28. I fell in love with this SMG after seeing it used in The Mummy Returns many years ago. It's on that mind list I have of many guns I'd like to get my hands on, but sadly I'll most likely never end up owning one in my lifetime.
Have you seen Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade?
@@VRichardsn Yep, I own it. Ended up seeing that film not long after TMR lol.
@@jeremiahakerman7333 I expected no less from an MP 28 enthusiast :D
Interesting thing about German firearms categories. What we call in English as a "Machine Pistol" (like the Stechkin APS) is called a "Dauerfeuerpistole". Literally "Duration Fire Pistol", or "Continuous Fire Pistol". "Dauerfeuer" means fully-automatic, like Ian shows in the video. Of course, "Maschinenpistole" refers to what we call a "Submachinegun"
Many were used in the Chaco war. Paraguayans used to call them "Piripipí" . I had one for many years until it got stolen. Great gun but very heavy.
They also saw heavy use on the Spanish Civil War, here we called them "Naranjero"
Did they use them in mexico?
@@docteurflipus2487 Wasnt that the EMP-34?
@@trauko1388 well, the Spanish Civil War was known for its chaotic logistics, and in fact meant that both armies were using a lot of different weapons. In fact a few
MP-28/II had been brought to Spain as early as 1931 to test it for police use but that was all the oficial imports that were made. Later during the war the loyalist side started producing non-licensed copies in the arsenal of Valencia with minimum differences with the german model. Most likely these were what people where used to call "naranjero", "churrera" or "avispero". But there are records of loyalist diplomats buying estonian copies of the MP-18 (in Spain they are referenced as Tallinn M1923 I think) and well, almost every modern weapon they could get their hands on was shipped to Spain. So its highly probable that there were also EMP-34 in large numbers. "Naranjero" was just a broad-name for those early submachineguns which for most spanish people were the first of this kind of firearm that they had seen.
@@docteurflipus2487 Very likely, look up the episode for the EMP 34 in this channel, it is for a Spanish licensed gun actually, as MP 41 maybe?
Saludos
I wish to give you a sincere "thank you" for supplementing my morning coffee with a little gun lore.
My best buddy and I have discussions over your channel as we make our own (very hot) cartridges and oil our guns.
From Chicago with love!
My thoughts about the weird 2 part bolt is possibly to make it easier to fix a broken firing pin.
The bolt as a whole has some complicated geometry but the rear bit with the firing pin is a simple piece of turning. Easier to produce replacement firing pin pieces than whole bolts with fixed firing pins.
If thats not the reason, then like you, I'm stumped Ian.
Is this the first weapon ever to have a fixed firing pin? Maybe in development he was trying to devise a way to delay the firing pin coming forward and in the end tried it without any delay mechanism only to find the weapon functioned flawlessly so... don't bother trying to make a spring to delay it, just mate the two parts together. In 1918 it may have been easier just to manufacture those two parts separately rather than fiddle with the design and realise "come on, if I just machine a protrusion on the solid bolt face that's not going to break... or is it... I can't be bothered to investigate, I KNOW this works, let's keep going with what I know works".
"Would the REAL Schmeisser please step forward...."
I love the that the video output has increased with no noticeable loss in quality, really appreciate all your efforts!
You made me a very happy man Ian. I wanted that video for so long. Thank you good sir :)
i am a simple man. i see a forgotten weapon. i clicked -and i maybe have eargasm-
Ian, I have slowly become helplessly Obsessed with your channel. Your so cool! Fucking love history. Love firearms. Love how ya teach the history of unusual, old, and “forgotten” armaments from around the world! Beyond interesting and I watch about 6 videos a day every day
I love the looks of it,great improvements
Leave it to the Germans to use figured walnut to make a freaking submachinegun.
@Will Moon Not to mention adding a rear sight that goes out to 1000 meters, when the original MP18 had a 2-position sight for 200 and 300 meters :P Shooting a 9mm submachine gun accurately at 1000 meters is definitely optimistic :D
deutsche qualität
Well I guess it could theoretically improve the guns durability, since the stock would be hard to split.
@@crazyfvck
Probably a standard construction they used for all rifles at the time with modified increments.
@@samhansen9771 Old-style single piece wood stocks are not as strong or durable as the later laminate stocks. They are also more expensive, although the single piece stock is not really something you think about unless you're really trying to cut corners
I have always liked the interwar Germanic sub machineguns. Great series of videos and seeing each taken down and reassembled is absolutely interesting. Reference photos in my various books and magazines leave a little to be desired compared to these videos.
What's awesome is he is one of those guys that speaks almost conversationally, very knowledgeable delivery.
Nice design. Much better mag system. The hinge up featute sure makes disassembly easier. Much better than having to take off the stock. Great video as always. Thank you
Who oiled it? That person is a real artist. My thanks for doing it so well.
maybe the II is just to say "the mp18,I is the first, and the mp28,II is the second?
That makes sense _except_ for the fact that the mp-18 would then be the only weapon I know of marked as the first of a lineage _a decade before the next in that line_. Though if it is the case, it does neatly explain both mysteries. I suppose the real test for that hypothesis would be whether Schmeisser replicated that pattern on any of the other guns he designed....
in one book I read they made the claim that after the war when the MP18 and MP28 were both in use worldwide they essentially stamped a "I" (1) and a "II" (2) on them to indicate that the MP28 has two fire-modes (single shot and full auto). I'm not sure if that is a credible claim however. Maybe they did it indeed just to get a greater distinction between the two guns because basically they look almost the same.
Maybe. But even in WW1 they only used Drum magazines, because they were there.So the "II" could have been for a bigger variety of the MP-18.
I made a guess for the I standing for Mark I and that is just a wild guess.
The simplicity of full auto from an open bolt vs a select fire is absolutely amazing especially with a fixed firing pin and an open bolt
Lots of German subguns in this auction. I like it!
An acquaintance of mine has one that was used during the Chaco War, fought between Bolivia and Paraguay in the 1930's. Sweetest shooting smg.
Unrelated to this video but with the Bergman MP-35. I think the reason the magazine is on the opposite side is so a right handed shooter can lay it closer to his body without being jabbed by the magazine
interesting idea
Would make it easier to hold whilst patrolling
S.H.V.C most probably
I was wondering if it was so one could fire while laying in a prone position. I suppose one could fire for example an mp40 sideways while prone. Another thought could be like the early auto pistol designs that by today's standards seem peculiar. I have no proof of any of these ideas, just random thoughts/ ideas
A Wise seems ligit
I love these mp submachine guns you review
I have seen photos of a System Schmeisser III smg, it was stocked like a 98k rifle, bayonet mount and all. It used a turning bolt stuck on the side in a separate tube to cock the action a bit like the MP35 and the magazine came out the bottom. The small amount of info in the captions described it as a 'prototype'.
I know its been literally years, but my theory is that the firing pin was done like that for replaceability. They were probably worried about the pins wearing out and the "Striker" piece would be a lot cheaper to make and more disposable than having to machine a whole new bolt w/ a fixed pin.
Hey Ian, your pronounciation on "Dauerfeuer" was pretty much on point! Greetings from Germany
Still kills me that the sell prices are not added anymore. It was always a nice way to sorta see what these relics of war mastery were priced at.
4:10 Robot Ian takes over.
In the UK, it was known as the “Lanchester SMG”, used primarily by the Royal Navy.
A very very beautiful firearm.
What a beauty.
Merry Christmas, Gun Jesus
Is it weird that i like the history more than the mechanics sometimes😂
The walnut on that gun is beautiful
Both thumbs up for the almost correct pronounciation of Einzelfeuer und Dauerfeuer.
British copies are Lancester with a big long heavy Lee Enfield bayonet and a brass magazine well!
Perhaps the separate striker was a part of the multi-caliber nature of the MP-28's production. Rather than loads of machining to create bolts with everything in place a load of strikers could be produced ready to drop into any bolt required. It would also make sense when it comes to damaged bolts. The firing pin is a fairly delicate component and so a quick, easy to make replacement would be better than a whole bolt.
In many countries instead of a period as a decimal they use a comma, Germany is one of those countries. I would assume that it is the MP-twenty-eight-point-two
All countries, but anglo countries
I like the way Gun Jesus speaks German. His pronounciation is nearly perfect. Keep going!
You pronounced the Words Einzelfeuer und Dauerfeuer , pretty good Ian.
The reason for the two parts bolt/striker is fairly easy in german military logic - as I know:
Changing a broken striker is just changing a part, which could be done (and was allowed to be done) by the soldier. Changing a Bolt is a repair, which HAS to be done by the "Waffenmeister-Gehilfe" of the Unit (depending on yery much factors, but at the best 1 per Batallion or mostly one per Regiment).
This regulation was set up with the intruduction of the Dreyse Zündnadelgewehr (and made really sense) and has been never changed later on.
Your German pronunciations in this video were pretty good! Dauerfeuer often seems to trip people up but you got it pretty close :)
When I was 17 in 1995 a shop in my home town was selling a deactivated one of these but I was too young and couldnt blow that kind of money on one item gutted. 😭
Ac utally the pronounciation of Einzel- und Dauerfeuer was reaaaally good!
9mm at 1,000 yards. I know it's supposed to be an area weapon at such extreme ranges but come on?!
A friend served as a medic and had a case with a frenchmen who got an inverted mohawk by a 9mm from such distances. So yeh, can do lots of damage.
There is "St+" ('extra stark' - 'extra strong') ammo with a lot more power; my grandfather used those in WW2. The casings looked like very dark brass and the bullets also had a black coating - they still looked the same 60+ years later.
Ok it was never implied that a 9mm round would be lethal at that range, the issue is the hit probability. Without any sort of reference point for range estimation or spotting, your average soldier can't judge what 1,000 meters even looks like, much less even see a camouflaged target at 1,000 meters. I just think it's funny that by the time this gun was developed, the role of a submachine gun had pretty much been established, and had nothing to do with trying to use a squad volley fire to maybe hit someone at such a ludicrous range.
Jonathon Hurley Jerry Miculek is a world class champion shooter, that's not really a valid point, if the average German soldier had half his skill I'm confident the war would have taken a rather different turn. He was also shooting one target, that wasn't moving, at a known distance, with exacting knowledge of his weapon, ammunition, and external factors.
It's dumb. Sure, you can spray most calibers at high angles and obviously it will come back down, but 1,000 yards with 9mm remains dumb. Actually, 1,000 with intermediate cartridges can be not possible often, nevermind pistol cartridges.
For all the eCommandos out there advocating for 9mm at 1,000 yards and using one of the worlds best shooters as the example we should all apparently be going by: 9mm has a velocity of 377 fps when its at 1,000 yards. It's basically a hot paintball (300 fps being a high safe speed for that) that weighs twice as much.
I've shot 600 yards with an M16. That was a nightmare. It's not easy shooting, although it can be done with training and practice. People like Jerry are the only ones who have business taking real shots at 1,000 yards with the wrong calibers.
The select fire feature reminds me of Modern Warfare 2019 guns. In MW2019 every AR, SMG, and LMG have select fire feature.
Neben der MP-38/40 ist das eine meiner absoluten Lieblingswaffen. ^^
Maybe the bolt and firing pin were made separately in case the end of the firing pin was damaged it could be field replaced without having to fit a new bolt.
Just seen that you have a Video on that too 😁
I wonder if the two piece bolt gave them the option of customizing the bolt wgt to the various calibers while using a common outer bolt geometry.
This gun was used in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade, fired at Indy during the boat chase. I always wondered why the gun falls apart during the scene and now I know. The receiver comes loose and swings forward. An interesting malfunction that was kept in the movie for some reason.
Ian can you please look at this gun on BF5 and tell us if you think that is the "correct" way it is supposed to be held! Very curious on that.
Hi Ian!
Are you planning to make video of M/31 Suomi? I saw you firing it in Finland.
"Next week, tune in for the M.P.34, sponsored by Reto-Moto." :P
@Forgotten Weapons: If there was a Mauser patent on double-stack double-feed magazines, the Reichspatentamt would have had a patent certificate, which in turn would have gone over to the successor organisations (namely the current Patent- und Markenamt).
Since there is nothing to be found on that patent in the DEPATIS-database (which contains all patents registered in Germany since the opening of the Kaiserliches Patentamt in 1877), I doubt that this patent exists. If you want to see for yourself, depatisnet.dpma.de - there is a selector for English on the top right.
Was there any reason he kept the side magazine design or why other sub-machine guns of the era always had them on the side? Was it because they wanted shooters to be able to comfortably shoot prone? To me, it seems the downwards design is superior in pretty much every way besides shooting prone. Do magazines feed better from the side?
That would be cool to have
The separate firing pin, you'll notice the hole on both sides of the bolt? This hole lines up with the smaller diameter on the firing pin. I'm pretty sure this is for gas venting from a ruptured case.
The separate striker could have been a hold over from some experimentation for a striker safety.
🇫🇮Lindelöf made Berg’s smg with a licence , but B it self offered same to Civil Guard and won the delivery by better price.
I would love to have one to plink with.
The II may not be referring to a MP28 I but instead as the MP18 I
Just a guess: If MP18 is numeral I, then MP28 as an improvement of the MP18 would logically be numeral II.
An old timer once told me that they stopped making things to last after World War 2. Looking at this prewar MP28 and comparing it to the MP5 or M16 series rifles I think it's true.
Referring to C&Rsenals mp18 episode, this kinda adds more evidence to what the MP18, I or 1 mystery
Are mp40 and sten magazines interchangeable? I thought they just shared the cartridge.
Yes, and it's even often advised to use a MP40 magazine in a Sten SMG because Sten magazines are crap (won't feed the last 3 rounds)
thanks
Forget interchangeable, they're literally identical--in fact, the MP28, MP34, MP38, MP40, MP41, Sten, and Lanchester all use the exact same magazine design stemming from Schmeisser's patent.
@@lassassindu5071: I have a Lanchester, which is basically a British copy of the MP28. I use STEN magazines, besides the original Lanchester 50 round magazines, and I have never had a problem with feeding. Am I lucky? I do have one or two MP40 magazines. The next time I go to the range, I'll give them a try.
I think the 2 piece bolt system allows to replace the firing pin easier.
Maybe the idea for the separate striker was to keep it from firing out of battery? Deigned for the pin to exert minimum force on the cartridge until the bolt is seated in battery?
Perhaps the striker being a stand alone part allows the user to change out the worn striker or potentially allows uses of different weight striker to change the rate of fire(if they decided to, which they did not)?
It would be fantastic if you guys could find a MP-34 after this one. God luck!
The cross-bolt selector switch looks a lot like the one on MP44 designs. was the MP-28 switch design reused in it?
Too bad this is illegal in CA as this would have come in handy in some places
maybe a remake of this weapon is needed ?
any thoughts guys ?
I feel like the reason for the separate striker is due to replaceability you break the firing pin just replace it unlike if it breaks on a 1 piece
1000M from 9X19. love the optimism.
This may be the ONLY time that Ian has ever referred to a double stack, single feed sub-gun magazine as “Way better”!
Do type 100 smg next pls while we at it.
So this is the gun the Japanese based their Type 100 SMG on, kinda expected it
I believe the British made copies of the MP-28,II in the form of the Lancaster SMG
Lanchester, not Lancaster. That video is coming. :)
I love the Lanchester with that big brass magazine well.
Saw one not too long ago, looked nice, but damn, it was kinda crude :)
That would be one heavy submachine gun LOL
Gahlok12
I don't exactly know how it weighs, maybe 3 kilos since it's not a Thompson
TheOtakuComrade someone called the Lanchester a Lancaster I made a joke about the four engine heavy bomber being a submachine gun
Has any comparrisions between this and a mp 38/40 been made. What was the better submachinegun in terms of performance, cost and effectivness etc, why would the german military go with the mp38/40 instead?
Again a guess...
Maybe that bolt in one piece was patented too.
Schmeisser seems to avoid patents as much as possible. 😂
no he actually set up his own company to make sure he wouldn't loose his patents.
Same guy also gave inspiration to the Stg44
This MP28 was also used by the KMT Chinese Nationalist Army in the WW2 extensively.
I would love to see a Japanese Type 100 submachine gun.
A sight adjustable for up to 1000 meters on a submachine gun ? Makes sense
6:42 use the striking handle as makeshift knife if gun stops working for whatever reason
I saw this on a game and someone called it a type 100 but I looked it up and saw this
A thought on the odd firing pin design - given that this and the MP18 were seemingly the "first" submachine guns, had fixed firing pins been invented/used in anything else? To my mind, this system ensures a nice reliable strike on the primer without having the extra complexity of a separate hammer/floating firing pin, maybe the extra simplicity of a fixed pin came later?
Ian loved this video, you didn't add that the british made copy of this gun the lanchester and then simplified that into design into the sten.
They used one of these in the boat chase scene from Indiana Jones and The Last Crusade I think.
II is logical. Many MP-18s were modified to accept stick mags as Roman II. MP28 is just minor modification of 18.
I wonder why the rear sight was not placed further back on the gun, for a longer sight radius?
This gun is availble for playing in Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare. However it is called Trencher.
the I and II markings may refer to the feeding or the stacking of the magazines?