A Police SMG Upgrade: the MP-18 System Schmeisser (audio fixed)
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- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2021
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(Re-uploaded to fix audio problem - sorry!)
When the MP-18 was issued by the German Army in World War One, it used the then-in-production Luger "snail drum" magazines. These were expensive, awkward, and generally not ideal. Once the war ended, Hugo Schmeisser quickly developed an alternative box magazine design. The initial goal was simply to update existing guns to use the new magazines by simply replacing their magazine housings. This was done, but not as quickly or universally as many people would expect. The Army never did update it's MP-18s (snail drum models were still used in some places in World War Two). Some of the various German police forces did make the change, but often not for a decade or more after the end of the war.
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Drum magazine in German is "Trommelmagazin", a "Trommeldrum" would be a "drum-drum". ;)
If you loaded it with expanding bullets you could shoot dum-dums from your drum-drums.
@@henrikoldcorn I just snorted so loudly bahahahaha!
I didn't have audio problems with the first iteration- but I'm watching again to ensure it doesn't hurt your view count! Thanks Ian.
Yeah same here no issues
Same
I had issues. Most of the audio was coming from the left side.
Same, and at 0.25x muted because i know that breaks youtube's watch time calculation (it counts at 400% view time)
@@BlackstarFallen all of the audio
I just love the ultra-fine machining, the perfectly rounded edges of the fittings, and the extra crisp letterings of the printed text of these early weapons. They were designed and built under a different philosophy than the mass-produced stamp and weld Econo-guns of the later periods.
@@TheRealColBosch Yep, that was a nice gun as well. These days, to get the same level of craftsmanship, one needs to pay a disproportional amount of money for what was then the standard practice.
Estonians in the 1920s also built their own upgraded version of the MP-18 known as A.T. (Arsenal Tallinn) M27 which is also often incorrectly referred to as "M23". It was chambered in 9x20mm Browning Long, had 50-round box magazines and a progressive trigger with a switch similar to Madsen 1905 that could be used to limit movement of the trigger. The barrel shroud, barrel and charging handle were also changed as was the stock which was designed to be similar to the Madsen LMG stock as Madsens were also used by the Estonian military during the interwar period.
wow that sounds rare. Are you sure its not an Elbonian SMG that Ian had mentioned in the past?
@@kamikazesoviet 🤔
@@kamikazesoviet Estonia is Europe, Elbonia isn't ;)
Johnny Hyrdo The Arsenal Tallinn SMGs are rare but they were produced by a real country's weapons factory and not 'Elbonia'.
Left a like purely because you clearly care more about the quality of your videos than the view count you may get
We all gonna watch it again anyway
The channel i's like the gun wikipedia.
Atleast you can trust Ian, Wikipedia you cannot
Gun Jesus is more interested in supplying his disciples with correct information than how many disciples he has
How can people dislike any of Ians' videos? He's the most wholesome creator ever!
Dedicated gun grabbers, presumably.
@@polygondwanaland8390 or alphabet bois
Considering the ratio at this current moment 2.4k likes vs. 12 dislikes; probably some salty channels who don't like seeing others succeed, or the vegan teacher sorts.
@@SlavicCelery At a ratio like that, misclicks might be most of then.
@@SlavicCelery Fair point!
I like Ian’s point. Just because something is overly complicated and should be updated. Doesn’t mean it always will. Life happens is the overall message. We look at this mp-18 but imagine everyone else who has that have passed away. A very somber thought.
The Schutzpolizei units had been called , Hundertschaften' ( singular Hundertschaft) . This term is still used today for Federal Police or Bereitschaftspolizei of the state.
Hundertschaft is equivalent to the militarys Kompanie/Company, the subunit in the Hundertschaft is called a Halbzug (Halfplatoon)
iam sure they have also something like a Gruppe/Squad because they used the Word "Gruppenkampfwagen" for their Police Vans at least when i was younger, Police (Bereitschaftspolizei) Hundertschaft, Halbzug, Gruppe, military (Bundeswehr) Kompanie, Zug, Gruppe
@@Sturminfantrist The Subunit to the Hundertschaft is a Zug. Then 1/3 the Gruppe. Then 1/2 Halbgruppe. Three Gruppen are making one Zug. The Halbzug is somtimes used in a tactical way on deployment. At least in Baden-Württemberg.
@@paulgro7255 Dank dir für die Klarstellung , ich hab kurz bevor ich zum Bund kam mit nem Freund aus der Volksschule 1 Woche (Suff) Party in einer Gartenhütte gemacht, er war zu der Zeit in der Ausbildungshundertschaft der niedersächsischen Bereitschaftspolizei in Hannover und redete oft vom Halbzug,ich habe daher angenommen das der Halbzug die Untereinheit der Hundertschaft ist.
Beim Bund hatten wir 4 Gruppen glaube je 9 Mann per Gruppe in einem Zug und 4 Züge per Kompanie.
@@Sturminfantrist Ich weiß nicht wie es in Niedersachsen ist aber bei uns wurden damals auch viele Ausbildungsinhalte, wie z.B Schießen und kleinere Übungen im Rahmen des Halbzugs ausgerichtet. Das macht die Ausbildung intensiver, als wie wenn der ganze Zug da auf einmal aufläuft.
In der BePo hatte bei uns ein Zug drei Gruppen je acht Mann (passen dann alle noch in einen Sprinter). Eine Hundertschaft hat drei Gruppen, was zusammen mit Sani-, Feuerlösch- und Beweissicherungstrupps in etwa 100 Mann ergibt.
I got so excited until I saw that it was just a fixed version of today's video. Regardless, I'm watching it again!
Welcome to the cool kids club
@@Capellix0001 I don't know why I'm in the club, but okay!
It’s very impressive that this rare gun has good condition! XD
I appreciate the audio fix. As much as it's petty to not watch a video because of its audio, I appreciate you took the time to fix this so I didn't feel off balance if I listened to the last one.
Good work Ian, we appreciate the speed reupload and another interesting historical note of interwar Germany.
First time around I was super distracted by the sound only coming through one headphone. Allow me to now devote my full attention!
Thanks for the reupload!
Imma watch it again in legit stereo!
Thank you for the reupload!
Thanks for fixing the audio. A+
Thanks Ian, for being so attentive to the well reported audio difficulties.l am commenting again for good old Al Gorythm. I do have a new question. Is this MP-18,1 legally repairable?
Hey I have a question will black powder cartridges work in blow back submachine guns like sten , mp 18 or mp40 etc.
Please clear my doubt.
That was fast, thanks for the fix.
Julian Assange Must
ruclips.net/video/GBUFMLzg4cA/видео.html
Cheers Ian, love your videos on fogotton weapons they are top, thank you. Dave from UK.
I didn't have audio problems earlier. 👍 watched all of your videos thanks again Ian, this one twice.
Still one of the finest channels on youtube.
I watched with the broken audio, but i was straight passing out when it hit, and I don't remember if I even finished it, so here I am again :D
Much better, thank you Ian!
Thank you ,Ian .
Thanks Ian
The fact that Weimar era cops were armed with submachine guns(which was something still very new at the time) tells you how unstable Germany was internally.
Thanks Ian👍
Always liked the overall Look of this one!
My audio was WACK, thanks for the reupload
Ian you should try to get Brownells to Resurrect the AR-16. They could repurpose the brn-180 in 7.62x51 and make a modern AR-16.
I second that motion
Thanks for the great video!
Thanks
Yeah, I wondered what happened to my right side speaker. So I ran a stereo test and all was fine. Didn't put two and two together on "audio problems." Sounds better now.
Love how difficult it was for you to get through saying that name (hanal?) the first time. I caught that slight chuckle ya rascal lol.
Is it like sten gun/platform month or something? Really liking the content lately. I have to say, a wooden stock really adds elegance to the look. This is a perfect example of what I wish I had. Beautiful
These are such nice guns, I love this period of automatic weapons.
Functional and beautiful, just as it ought to be.
Thank you
great video, thank you
Would love to see Ian do a video explaining all the different ammo sizes and reasons for them.
TsingTao Iron Works ( Shantung) made the M1927, 7,63x25, (20 rd) for the Shanghai Municipal Police: Vollmer Worked on the first production models.
I suspect the TT 27 was a further work on the MP18,I to Mauser cartridge.
Vollmer returned to Germany in early 1930s.
Info from Eduard, collector in Belgium...who has an example ( TsingTao) Gunboards over 15 yrs ago.
DocAV
What a piece!!
One of my all time favorites…
Great video. Both times!
Call me crazy, but I'd be making and selling modern reproductions of these and other old guns if I could. If the Italians can keep making Wild West Guns, why can't we keep making others
But its a submashine Gun,they have strong Rules on them.
The Luger was more Iconic then this Schmeisser.
Its more facinating, that this was the Origin to the Lancaster,
which became the Sten, wich they produce in the last Episode
of War as the Gerät Neumünster or MP 3008.
So the British Copy the Germans and the German copys the British.
Unfortunately you'd need to make them SBRs
You can get reproduction .45 ACP lugers based of the US trial 1907 ver. For around 5000 dollars. Still want cheaper ones like tokarevs
Ian has addressed this concept on his channel before. The super short version is that the market for them is very limited, reproductions tend to be extremely expensive, and the design changes required to comply legally tend to make them really not very good reproductions anyway. For example, this gun: it's an open bolt gun that fires with a fixed firing pin. You absolutely cannot do that in the American market anymore, and there's no place in this design to put a hammer or striker assembly. If you tried, what you'd end up doing is inventing a brand new gun that merely resembles an MP18 on the outside.
@@johndaniels1197 "reproductions tend to be extremely expensive" Yeah, especially when talking about these early, first generation guns that weren't yet designed to be super simplified and cheap to produce, like the second generation stuff that started to happen around WW2 period. Despite being mechanically not very complex, there's still a lot of fairly pricey machining that goes into these, and you'd need to replicate that to make... Well, a replica. =(
Would you look at that, a reupload. Well, I guess I'll watch this a second time.
Haha, I’m gonna give this another watch to make sure the view gets counted. The right channel wasn’t working before, but the information seemed to be just as important as it still is.
Great video
Idk why it says audio fixed bc I watched the 1st video and this video also and there's nothing different at all and there wasn't actually anything wrong with the 1st video either but I don't really mind watching twice in one day so thanks Ian double video day today LoL
Also I really had to do a double take when I got a notification for forgotten weapons so late in the day since I always start my day out with watching whatever video you put out for the day
The first upload had audio only on the left channel.
"Only a couple of thousands of MP18 saw frontline service" - I doubt it. According to Ernst Jünger's autobiographical short novel "Das Wäldchen 125", the MP18 was already a common sight by July 1918. So why should there have only been a few thousands?
So here is a quote from "Das Wäldchen 125". This is just a description of typical trench defense (Grabenkämpfe) in summer 1918. Ernst Jünger is a Leutnant and his trench is getting attacked by british soldiers.
Quote:
"Die Mannschaft muss mit weiten Abständen aufgestellt werden, damit im Falle des Zusammenstoßes Spielraum für den Einzelnen bleibt und nicht gleich durch das Gedränge der ersten Stpckung eine Verwirrung hervorgerufen wird. , bei der in der DUnkelheit und der Enge der GRäben nichts mehr zu retten wäre. Es müssen diejenigen herausgesucht werden, die gelenkig genug und von angeborenem Wagemut sind, um die ersten Plätze als Werfer einnehmen zu können, aber auch ans Ende muss ein entschlossener DIenstgrad gestellt werden, der dafür zu sorgen hat, dass keiner zurückbleibt, dass die Beweguing nicht zögernd wird und dass in gleichmäßiger Folge Handgranaten durch die Kette nach vorne gereicht werden. Es sind die TRäger von Schießbechern einzuteilen, die über die Köpfe der Vorgehenden hinweg ihre Gewehrgranaten auf den Gegner schleudern sollen, ferner die Maschinenpistolen- und Maschinengewehrschützen, die in der Dunkelheit nur steil in die Luft schießen können."
Translation:
"The team has to be set up with large distances so that there is room for the individual, so that in the event of a collision the crowding of the first stilts doesn't immediately cause confusion, where nothing could be saved in the darkness and the narrowness of the trenches. Those must be selected who are flexible enough and of innate daring to be able to take the first place as throwers, but also at the end a determined level of service must be placed, which has to ensure that no one is left behind, that the movement does not becomes hesitant and that hand grenades are passed forward through the chain in steady succession. The carriers of Schiessbecher are to be divided up who are supposed to hurl their rifle grenades at the enemy over the heads of the attackers, furthermore the machine pistol (= MP18) and machine gun shooters, who can only shoot steeply into the air in the dark"
Quote from: "Ernst Jünger, Sämtliche Werke, Ernst Abteilung, Band 1, Der Erste Weltkrieg", Champter "Das Wäldchen 125", Page 426
'A common sight' is pretty subjective. 1/100? 1/500? If there are documents from inventory saying 'X had been shipped and Y were in stock', that is much more objective.
Keep in mind, Jünger was also leading storm troops by this point, so of course he would be more exposed to those weapons than is representative.
Anecdotal evidence isn't reliable. I can say a convention is successful because I see plenty of people despite the fact it is below projected attendance...
@@turbografx16 He wasn't a "Sturmtruppen-Leader". He was a frontline leutnant, who, if necessary, became a part of attacking units, that were assambled spontaneously from volunteers. But he was not a part of the famous storm troops, who by 1918 were the "avant garde". "Wäldchen 125" (little forrest 125) is about the two months after the failed spring offensive, where he was caught in small scale, back and forth trench combat, which didn't seem to have any strategic value. The quote is from one of those incidents where the british took some small section of the German held trench, and like always, they tried an immediate counter attack to either retake it or close gaps (the british and german parts were partially connected).
There is no reason to not mass produce the MP18. Over 220.000 "Lange Pistole" were manufacuted, more than half of them (125K) in 1917. In 1918 the production was brought down. In December 1917 11.400 LP08 were produced, in January 1918 7701, and from there on the monthly production stayed at 2000 a months. What replaced it? 1918 was also the year where most of the light machine guns were produced. They needed "machine weapons", the allies had about 4 times as many, so there is no reason to not use the relatively inexpensive MP18 as a stopgap.
@@axelpatrickb.pingol3228 I wouldn't call Ernst Jünger's memoirs "anecdotal". The fascinating thing about his accounts is how detailed they are, and thusfar nobody could prove that he was making things up. All his descriptions match his regiment's after action reports
@@FantadiRienzo This is certainly how he referred to himself. In the first German edition of his wartime autobiography 'In Stahlgewittern', the subtitle is: 'aus dem Tagebuch eines Stoßtruppführers', from the diary of a storm troop leader. He was certainly training and leading the assault troops within his unit by the Spring offensive. On page 175 of the 1929 English edition: 'My job was a very interesting one, for Colonel von Oppen had entrusted me with the training of the storm troop.'
In any case, I don't see how him referring to the MP18 in the excerpt from "Das Wäldchen 125" is evidence that any greater number were in use, it is simply evidence they they were in use. Even if he had said, e.g. 'It seemed like every second man had an MP18', that would not be evidence toward any total number in use (it's anecdotal, and limited to a particular context or instance).
great :D couldnt watch the other vid due to no audio from it ( all other yt vids were fine )
The previous video not only had sound problems .. there was also no possibility of autoplay .. otherwise all was well .. the sound was good and clear enough .. came from the left side yes, but not bad at all ✌
Oh, now I can cancel my otologist appointment again.
Noticed the audio was a little quiet, thought it was just me though lol
Thank you for the content gun jesus
Im gonna keep asking until i get a “ill try to look for one” or a “sorry those are too exceedingly rare”
Please do a vid on the mg81
So a gun designed around the drum magazine was updated to a box magazine, around which new guns were designed? Makes sense.
7:25 I think you ment "single feed" but double stack magazine
cool a double like - had no issues with the first edition.
I thought the audio sounded a little strange on the last one, I thought it was just me lol
I appreciate that even the German flag in the video thumbnail is accurate. Inter-war period the Weimar Republic used the same flag is Germany does today. Good detail to get right! :)
Thanks for the video Ian. Leaving a comment for the algorithm
Sure, ill watch again! :)
Cheers
However the MP18,I was used widely by Freikorps with the connivance of the British in places like Poland, Estonia, Lithuania and Finland
The Hanel 25 APC pocket pistol kept the company in the black between the wars.
El MP28 fue producido por Haenel bajo la supervisión de Hugo Schmeisser, siendo copiado en la República Española bajo el nombre clave de Naranjero. El Naranjero empleaba cartuchos 9 mm Largo.4
I've got Hänels at work.... the rotating filing system Hänels, but still.
The real audio fix was the friends we made along the way
nice
Спасибо за видео и ваш труд
Great camera work on getting close to the markings and being able to read them clearly. So this is why the Sten has single stack. Blame it on the Germans. Interesting that 9x19mm was not a uniform standard for some time.
I think you forgot to put "war" when you aid "Once the was ended,.."
I didn't hear any audio issues last version of the video
I had no issue with the first. Thanks for caring though.
God bless all here.
I had a Christmas ad everybody. Why so early?
Because commercialism.
Happy Chrismahannakwanzakah everyone
8:38 S.K. 21 could be 'Sonder Kommission 21. 3.'.
This could mean either that these guns were especially commissioned or for a specific criminal case. The latter is a more modern meaning within German police and it doesn't make much sense to permanently mark a gun.
It could mean something entirely different though.
Improved pew pew pew.
So Schmeisser was to blame all along for the double stack/single feed magazine design that has plagued many SMG designs throughout history, curse you!
(still waiting for double stack/double feed handguns to become a viable trend btw)
2:19 He and his brother Hans? Did they go on to take over Nakatomi tower?
Wrong brothers. Those were Karl and Tony.
12:00 Not just into WW2, but even today as C.G. Haenel won the contract for replacing the German Armed Forces standard issue rifle, the G36, with their MK556 rifle. If that will actually happen is not clear though, as HK is fighting that contract in court.
Is the magazinw double stack single feed?
Please stop saying Hanel 😂😂😂
Great content as always!
Hänel.
@@yam83 ya, that's what I said 🤣🤣
this kinda looks like that starwars blaster clones used
Man we should put Ian in charge of the nations small arms Procurement
Thought I was going deaf lol
just droppin in to check out the MP-18 before i commit war crimes in BF1 with it
7:31 so the entire reason why the MP40 and Sten Gun family had those crappy single feed mags was it was a holdover from this conversion because Hugo wanted to save time and money; typical...
Another interesting video. Am I right in thinking "Haenel" should be pronounced to rhyme with "flannel"?
Upgraded video about an upgrade.
Please do a video on the m1920 sig bergmann especially the type be used by Japan
After all MP18 is a romantic gun
Do people Cosplay as Ian for Shot Show the way comic nerds Cosplay as Superman and such? It seems really obvious.
Unless they are down for one...
If I may ask, what caused the original upload to have the issue it did? Was it human error, or did your software randomly malfunction?
Do you have any info on the numbers acquired/used by the Japanese during WW2? Were they only contracting MP-34s from Steyr-Solothurn or had they acquired good stocks of 28s and 18s previously? Was it common for US soldiers in the Pacific to come across these?
Was curious about Japanese contracted firearms and was about ask a hell of a lot more when I remembered I already watched the S1-100 video and realized thats where my interest of European manufactured weapons being used by the Japanese began 😅 Love when it all comes full circle. Thanks for the amazing content as always Ian.
IJN Special landing troops
@@liammeech3702 Yup, knew that. Not what I'd asked, but thanks.
👍
Wait.... It wasn't the same cat?
****GLITCH****
S.K. 21 3
Schutzpolizei Köslin
Waffe Nr.21
Magazin Nr.3
oh the more the merrier
Hugo Hanal, what a name. Lmao
Damn never been this early