A few thoughts: 1 - It is interesting to see a doctor taken aback by how normal employers treat you. Most companies will do their best to accommodate hours, they will also be paying for your training and travel. Hopefully you can provide insight to the way doctors are treated. 2 - It is SO important to get policy right. Fantastic to have someone with your insight and capability in a position to influence how the NHS delivers. You can have much more impact on overall patient experience helping to get policies right 3. The 1 year limit is obviously ridiculous. Overall if people listen to you, this could be a great year for you and you can make a difference, which is so needed!
Don't forget these adults were recruited into medicine at age 18 and have little experience of an employer outside of the NHS when they begin working so often do not realise what a terrible deal they are getting out of NHS employment when it comes to work life balance, working hours etc etc the rules are Victorian. Being denied holiday for your wedding despite being asked a year in advance, my friend was denied leave when her father was in ICU and I quote 'he wasn't dead yet' its appalling. These people really really want to help and they are treated terribly.
Hey Ollie, sorry about the training application. If it’s any consolation, I was in the exact position. Ranking 32 amongst neurosurgery is no easy feat so well done. The recruitment process in the UK is absolutely awful, I remember not getting a CST post and the depression I felt. I’m glad you are exploring options outside of medicine, I’m sure you’ll do well. Keep up the good work pal
I'm so sorry Ollie. It's such a shame because you and many candidates alike are capable and would excel in the field. Best of luck with your future plans :)
Brother did maths degree and masters finance. Makes £400k for quant fund. Doctors after many years can not even get to £100k for a long time. Only worth it in US or unless your life goal
I just finished an internship at NHS England as a current medical student. I had the opportunity to speak with several of the National Medical Director Clinical Fellows, and they were truly inspiring. I’m hoping to follow in their footsteps someday. I’m sure you’ll do great, Ollie!
I honestly don't get what the grind is for even - shit pay, no perks, everybody - patients + colleagues + superiors treating you like shit, the system screwing you over.. Youth wasted. Sounds great to me 🤣
Gmc and nhs managers make sure docs have endless paperwork. These useless managers have to justify their own jobs. Docs spend more time with papers and computers than pts
I remember how tough it was. I did neurosurgery so I could be eligible for ST1 in ophthalmology many years ago. InshaAllah you’ll secure your dream training number next time
Really interesting video Ollie. I knew Neurosurgery was competitive but had no idea the training pathway was so inflexible. I’m just going into my second year of GEM so it’ll be a while before I’m thinking about specialties but this gives me food for thought. I met an Emergency Medicine trainee recently and I was amazed at how flexible the career path was. It’s a shame neurosurgery isn’t the same. Best of luck to you on your new venture
The system sounds insane, all that experience will be wasted! 🤬 Anyway good luck in your future plans and please keep us all updated? I'm not in medicine myself but found your vids to be very interesting! 👍
@ScarySox NHS is so wasteful it's insane (working there aswell). They're constantly crying about being in a staffing crisis yet they actively prevent qualified experienced doctors from getting employment. It's a total joke
In terms of working in neurology you can argue it's been wasted. But I imagine the experience working in the field is valuable even if he never gets a training post
You seem like a nice guy Ollie. But let's leave the political corretness aside. It's not a "system quirkiness", it's a shit system. The NHS doesn't value junior doctors. And sorry but your dad's comment makes my blood boil - it's utterly insulting and prime example that the general public knows fuck all about the struggles that doctors need to endure, even when they have one in their family.
@petertownley7296 right. The country is in a critical shortage of consultants but hey let's make it even more difficult for hard working talented doctors to become one. All this "money saving" strategy does it forces your most valuable asset - the doctors- to change careers or emigrate. Ultimately, the patient suffers by getting stuck on a never ending waiting list. The accessibility of healthcare in this country is a joke oh but there's always plenty of funding for NHS corporate crap.
really appreciate your transparency! super interesting fellow post - incredible congrats on getting in. I was really rooting for you to get that training number, best of luck for this next year
I've been binge-watching your vids for ages, and I was seriously thinking about moving to the UK to be a doctor as it all seemed so lovely at first (I mean UK in itself -- the place is quite lovely). But then I found out through you how rubbish the NHS is, and how it screws over doctors just to maximise their own gains. It's shocking how they prey on desperate young people with ever lower wages, which basically has ruined medicine for everybody there. Loads of people, even from the UK, are telling me not to come over and waste my time because of the NHS mess. It really sucks how such a terrible system is still allowed to exist ;-; As long as this system is in place, I don't know if I should even think of coming to UK :(
You have influenced my journey so much. I’m reapplying for graduate entry at Warwick this year, but I’ve also been accepted onto an access to medicine course so I will hopefully have options for 5-year courses too. It’s hard and frustrating to face these hurdles but you will definitely get through it and I love that you always see tbf best in everything.
Preparation for the interview etc can all be done remotely - just a case of finding willing registrars/trainees to practise with. Several units (inc Oxford for example) run get into neurosurgery training bootcamps, which is usually the draw of their SHO/JCF posts.
Hey Ollie, I was hoping if you'd male a video about locuming as a junior doctor now. You know how you apply for locum jobs and what it's like working as a locum. I'm a 3rd year med student and I keep hearing about locuming but I'm not really sure how it works. Thanks :)
Having the same issue myself. Didn’t get a training number (for a different speciality) so now have to be careful not to go over the 2 year limit set by my training pathway. It’s ridiculous
It sounds interesting. I do understand why the system is set up the way you describe as it prevents further bottlenecks, overly delayed training, and “encourages” redistribution of doctors to other specialisms. But there is a need for more training numbers and the idea that only 30 people a year are going to commence neurosurgery training does feel perverse, to take your word. It feels like there’s something rotten in the way training of surgeons occurs in those country. I do hope you find your path. As a card carrying member of the long way round club, i know that good things can come from this, so I wish you a pleasant journey.
I'm just not convinced that the time limit actually works and it's something I might look at in the coming year - whether it acts as a deterrent, or it just delays careers by a number of years. Practically it will just shunt a lot of people into the SAS/CESR pathway which is obviously a good thing for patients - but if we're accepting that this is happening (and that it's a good thing to meet demand) then we should surely just be awarding more NTNs anyway. It's odd.
Hoping you get training number next year Ollie ..we used to say that doctors in the uk and us become consultant at young age unlike us in the middle east seems inaccurate 😢
My partner got one of the top training numbers for ACCS and yet although appointable for surgery did not get any posting that was in any of the regions that was feasible for us as a couple. I am in a pretty good training scheme as an academic clinical fellow but when I applied for my core training job it came pretty down to the wire, it was either this job or I was going to do something else completely. One of the things I felt became more important to me (hence I stepped down to LTFT) was spending time with my family/partner it was also much better for my mental health. Do be reflective during this year, I will be crossing my fingers for you to get into neurosurgery but it might be a good time to take a step back and evaluate your quality of life, especially if there is zero give in the system at the moment. I also don't think being timed out for experience is a rational decision regarding training, I think its punitive and ridiculous to be quite honest. You've got a lot of skills and most other employers would be jumping over each other to offer you a job, please remember that!
It’s a good decision Ollie. I also don’t think you should feel like it’s a selfish decision if it’s only going to make you a better doctor and a better person overall. Best wishes for future endeavours 😊
Perverse indeed, how is one expected to build skills in this area without significant costs or leaving the country to another health service. It’s like telling someone who is gifted with their hands and wants to become an electrician, no you must be a builder first even though the transferable skills will be there its a different end game.
Im suprised by just how much hate there is on this video. This dude has, like every other doctor in the uk saved many lives and is working hard to become one of the hardest careers there are on the planet. Why would someone hate someone being so altruistic
Just came across your channel. Good luck with neurosurgery journey, you seem like you would make a fantastic surgeon! Really don’t understand the logic of the limit on time, seems like it’s there to limit experienced IMG doctors to secure training posts but if you were UK trained surely it shouldn’t apply?
As far as I can guess, it stops skill creep - the goal of MMC (one of the big training reforms in the UK) was to increase the speed at which people trained. Without experience limits, it would stop any F2 applicant reasonably being able to compete against an experienced SHO and you'd end up having to do several SHO grade years to get in, a bit like the Australian system. Not that this has worked very well of course, because the UK is approaching that stage anyway.
Ollie have you consider a interest of doing opthalmology or psychology I seen medical specialist do neuro-ophthalmology or neuro cardiology etc or ever consider doing neurology's veterinary 🤔
Ophthalmology is in the same madly-competitive vein as neurosurgery is - it's never really tickled my fancy, and would be difficult (albeit not impossible) to pivot to it at this stage. I know a few colleagues who have done it though.
Nhs and gmc are crap. Nurse practitioners are disdainful and insulting of junior docs. Don't do much Don't take responsibility Don't do night shifts and consultants are scared of them
@@OllieBurtonMed Do it! Honestly there’s more to life than living in this state of not knowing what happens next. Also, as a consultant you don’t actually have to do mx/qip/research stuff. There are ways to avoid it all once you’re there
it sounds like youve been grinding ever since med school, so honestly this seems like a nice break - good for you Ollie & thanks for sharing :)
A few thoughts:
1 - It is interesting to see a doctor taken aback by how normal employers treat you. Most companies will do their best to accommodate hours, they will also be paying for your training and travel. Hopefully you can provide insight to the way doctors are treated.
2 - It is SO important to get policy right. Fantastic to have someone with your insight and capability in a position to influence how the NHS delivers. You can have much more impact on overall patient experience helping to get policies right
3. The 1 year limit is obviously ridiculous.
Overall if people listen to you, this could be a great year for you and you can make a difference, which is so needed!
Don't forget these adults were recruited into medicine at age 18 and have little experience of an employer outside of the NHS when they begin working so often do not realise what a terrible deal they are getting out of NHS employment when it comes to work life balance, working hours etc etc the rules are Victorian. Being denied holiday for your wedding despite being asked a year in advance, my friend was denied leave when her father was in ICU and I quote 'he wasn't dead yet' its appalling. These people really really want to help and they are treated terribly.
@@ButterflyBox89I know from the emergency medical technician training skills and training opportunities are so short lived
Hey Ollie, sorry about the training application. If it’s any consolation, I was in the exact position. Ranking 32 amongst neurosurgery is no easy feat so well done.
The recruitment process in the UK is absolutely awful, I remember not getting a CST post and the depression I felt. I’m glad you are exploring options outside of medicine, I’m sure you’ll do well. Keep up the good work pal
I'm so sorry Ollie. It's such a shame because you and many candidates alike are capable and would excel in the field. Best of luck with your future plans :)
Brother did maths degree and masters finance. Makes £400k for quant fund. Doctors after many years can not even get to £100k for a long time. Only worth it in US or unless your life goal
Which uni did he go to?
@@rosie8094 york and LSE. Internships before quant at Bank of New York and hedge fund in Miami.
@@rosie8094 york and LSE. With internships at Bank of New York
I just finished an internship at NHS England as a current medical student. I had the opportunity to speak with several of the National Medical Director Clinical Fellows, and they were truly inspiring. I’m hoping to follow in their footsteps someday. I’m sure you’ll do great, Ollie!
Very cool! Hope it was a good experience for you - and feel free to drop me an email if you want to touch base during this year
Medicine is not worth it anymore. Never-ending demands
I honestly don't get what the grind is for even - shit pay, no perks, everybody - patients + colleagues + superiors treating you like shit, the system screwing you over.. Youth wasted. Sounds great to me 🤣
@@HenIchaer perfectly said. And endless papers
Gmc and nhs managers make sure docs have endless paperwork. These useless managers have to justify their own jobs. Docs spend more time with papers and computers than pts
Yup can't see any doing medicine brings any good
I remember how tough it was. I did neurosurgery so I could be eligible for ST1 in ophthalmology many years ago. InshaAllah you’ll secure your dream training number next time
Really interesting video Ollie. I knew Neurosurgery was competitive but had no idea the training pathway was so inflexible. I’m just going into my second year of GEM so it’ll be a while before I’m thinking about specialties but this gives me food for thought. I met an Emergency Medicine trainee recently and I was amazed at how flexible the career path was. It’s a shame neurosurgery isn’t the same. Best of luck to you on your new venture
The system sounds insane, all that experience will be wasted! 🤬
Anyway good luck in your future plans and please keep us all updated?
I'm not in medicine myself but found your vids to be very interesting!
👍
@ScarySox NHS is so wasteful it's insane (working there aswell). They're constantly crying about being in a staffing crisis yet they actively prevent qualified experienced doctors from getting employment. It's a total joke
In terms of working in neurology you can argue it's been wasted. But I imagine the experience working in the field is valuable even if he never gets a training post
@sq-zb2ps it's a waste of talent. The NHS overall is the most wasteful healthcare system I have ever had the pleasure of working in
@@SaschaGerstner yeah I agree the nhs has some huge issues
I am happy for you,well done for organizing your life in a way that you put quality first! Great feat for your new role👍
You seem like a nice guy Ollie. But let's leave the political corretness aside. It's not a "system quirkiness", it's a shit system. The NHS doesn't value junior doctors. And sorry but your dad's comment makes my blood boil - it's utterly insulting and prime example that the general public knows fuck all about the struggles that doctors need to endure, even when they have one in their family.
all about money saving after foundation level to stop overspends at specialty level oillie is a top guy talks pure reality & sense
@petertownley7296 right. The country is in a critical shortage of consultants but hey let's make it even more difficult for hard working talented doctors to become one. All this "money saving" strategy does it forces your most valuable asset - the doctors- to change careers or emigrate. Ultimately, the patient suffers by getting stuck on a never ending waiting list. The accessibility of healthcare in this country is a joke oh but there's always plenty of funding for NHS corporate crap.
really appreciate your transparency! super interesting fellow post - incredible congrats on getting in. I was really rooting for you to get that training number, best of luck for this next year
I've been binge-watching your vids for ages, and I was seriously thinking about moving to the UK to be a doctor as it all seemed so lovely at first (I mean UK in itself -- the place is quite lovely). But then I found out through you how rubbish the NHS is, and how it screws over doctors just to maximise their own gains. It's shocking how they prey on desperate young people with ever lower wages, which basically has ruined medicine for everybody there.
Loads of people, even from the UK, are telling me not to come over and waste my time because of the NHS mess. It really sucks how such a terrible system is still allowed to exist ;-;
As long as this system is in place, I don't know if I should even think of coming to UK :(
UK is a shit country. I wouldn't recommend coming here, it's not worth the hassle. Scotland is nice but England is a real shithole.
You have influenced my journey so much. I’m reapplying for graduate entry at Warwick this year, but I’ve also been accepted onto an access to medicine course so I will hopefully have options for 5-year courses too. It’s hard and frustrating to face these hurdles but you will definitely get through it and I love that you always see tbf best in everything.
system failed us all many times and i believe it will again. but, all the best!
Thank you for everything you have done thus far and will continue to do Dr.
Dr Ollie we really love and support you! Balance in all things. Would love to hear how you will study for a program that you aren’t able to work in?
Preparation for the interview etc can all be done remotely - just a case of finding willing registrars/trainees to practise with. Several units (inc Oxford for example) run get into neurosurgery training bootcamps, which is usually the draw of their SHO/JCF posts.
Good luck, you've got this Ollie, the second time is the charm! 🙂
Hey Ollie, I was hoping if you'd male a video about locuming as a junior doctor now. You know how you apply for locum jobs and what it's like working as a locum. I'm a 3rd year med student and I keep hearing about locuming but I'm not really sure how it works. Thanks :)
thank you for this video and the previous one.Yes no one talks about this very real part of the medical career path.
Love the work Ollie!
Apply in US. You will do great there. You have great experience to land a residency there.
Having the same issue myself. Didn’t get a training number (for a different speciality) so now have to be careful not to go over the 2 year limit set by my training pathway.
It’s ridiculous
Always informative and reflective content! Great to see you redirect your position Ollie! All the best for the next round!
It sounds interesting. I do understand why the system is set up the way you describe as it prevents further bottlenecks, overly delayed training, and “encourages” redistribution of doctors to other specialisms. But there is a need for more training numbers and the idea that only 30 people a year are going to commence neurosurgery training does feel perverse, to take your word. It feels like there’s something rotten in the way training of surgeons occurs in those country.
I do hope you find your path. As a card carrying member of the long way round club, i know that good things can come from this, so I wish you a pleasant journey.
I'm just not convinced that the time limit actually works and it's something I might look at in the coming year - whether it acts as a deterrent, or it just delays careers by a number of years. Practically it will just shunt a lot of people into the SAS/CESR pathway which is obviously a good thing for patients - but if we're accepting that this is happening (and that it's a good thing to meet demand) then we should surely just be awarding more NTNs anyway. It's odd.
Best wishes, Ollie! Your career path sounds interesting.😊
Hoping you get training number next year Ollie ..we used to say that doctors in the uk and us become consultant at young age unlike us in the middle east seems inaccurate 😢
My partner got one of the top training numbers for ACCS and yet although appointable for surgery did not get any posting that was in any of the regions that was feasible for us as a couple. I am in a pretty good training scheme as an academic clinical fellow but when I applied for my core training job it came pretty down to the wire, it was either this job or I was going to do something else completely. One of the things I felt became more important to me (hence I stepped down to LTFT) was spending time with my family/partner it was also much better for my mental health. Do be reflective during this year, I will be crossing my fingers for you to get into neurosurgery but it might be a good time to take a step back and evaluate your quality of life, especially if there is zero give in the system at the moment. I also don't think being timed out for experience is a rational decision regarding training, I think its punitive and ridiculous to be quite honest. You've got a lot of skills and most other employers would be jumping over each other to offer you a job, please remember that!
Best of luck to you doc. You will nail it next time
It’s a good decision Ollie. I also don’t think you should feel like it’s a selfish decision if it’s only going to make you a better doctor and a better person overall. Best wishes for future endeavours 😊
Perverse indeed, how is one expected to build skills in this area without significant costs or leaving the country to another health service. It’s like telling someone who is gifted with their hands and wants to become an electrician, no you must be a builder first even though the transferable skills will be there its a different end game.
Keep us updated Ollie :))
good luck mate!
Goodluck Ollie 🙏💙
Im suprised by just how much hate there is on this video. This dude has, like every other doctor in the uk saved many lives and is working hard to become one of the hardest careers there are on the planet. Why would someone hate someone being so altruistic
Just came across your channel. Good luck with neurosurgery journey, you seem like you would make a fantastic surgeon! Really don’t understand the logic of the limit on time, seems like it’s there to limit experienced IMG doctors to secure training posts but if you were UK trained surely it shouldn’t apply?
As far as I can guess, it stops skill creep - the goal of MMC (one of the big training reforms in the UK) was to increase the speed at which people trained. Without experience limits, it would stop any F2 applicant reasonably being able to compete against an experienced SHO and you'd end up having to do several SHO grade years to get in, a bit like the Australian system. Not that this has worked very well of course, because the UK is approaching that stage anyway.
Damn what a banger worth waiting for
No doubt some noctor like PA or ANP who left high school with nothing but STI will be taking up the roles for doctors
Go to NZ or Oz. They will appreciate more long term.
Ngl leadership causes me to yawn, but good for you
So you are basically bad at leadership
Ollie have you consider a interest of doing opthalmology or psychology I seen medical specialist do neuro-ophthalmology or neuro cardiology etc or ever consider doing neurology's veterinary 🤔
Ophthalmology is in the same madly-competitive vein as neurosurgery is - it's never really tickled my fancy, and would be difficult (albeit not impossible) to pivot to it at this stage. I know a few colleagues who have done it though.
Nhs and gmc are crap. Nurse practitioners are disdainful and insulting of junior docs. Don't do much Don't take responsibility Don't do night shifts and consultants are scared of them
Labour government not socialist no Thomas. Bad move politically Thomas. Awesome thanks. 10 million pensioners lose £300 Winter fuel payment yes.
Just be a neurosurgeon and earn less than a train driver bro!
I already earn less than a train driver so I guess I'm almost there. Just need the neurosurgeon part.
Awesome. Liberal Democrats had better manifesto for Britain it Mixed economy. Labour party no Thomas.
please save yourself some grief and do radiology and do neurointervention if you like brains that much
If it happens it happens! Doing an INR taster week before applications come around again.
@@OllieBurtonMed Do it! Honestly there’s more to life than living in this state of not knowing what happens next.
Also, as a consultant you don’t actually have to do mx/qip/research stuff. There are ways to avoid it all once you’re there
pls continue to convince him ty
@@aqua6842 happy to talk/help wherever i can. Even if it’s just a chat. Ollie has my phone number i think from a while back
R u happy with the new government wage increase offer?
I'm contractually obliged to support it. I will do a video soon talking about it in more detail.
The music is so condescending
Boo Hoo.... dont let the door hit u papi.....💩💩💩💩💩
What an odd angle
I thought that. But engagement is engagement I guess.
@@saadsharif1552 ,,,,,open now....💩💩💩🥣🥣💩💩💩💩