"The body is an animal, the psyche a child" "I have to make the body understand it must obey, not command" "When our *ATTENTION* is strongly concentrated *IN FRONT* of the various movements of our thinking, feeling and body (*THIS*) Produces a substance similar to electricity. It is necessary to accumulate this material for a second body to be formed" "There is in us naturally a permanent conflict between the psyche and the organic, body. They have different natures--one wishes, the other does not wish. There is a confrontation that we must reinforce voluntary by our work" "If I am not related to something higher I am nothing" "I experience a look from above, a sense of "I" above the head. I see especially that the "I" is really the intelligence, the master of "me" --Jeanne De Salzmann (The Reality of Being) "...these 'higher-perfected-being-bodies' (that is) 'souls'..." --G.I. Gurdjieff (First Series) "...when these higher-being-parts arose (...) and were perfected in beings to the required graduation of Objective Reason (...) the body-Kesdjan was, thanks to the second-being food formed in beings (...) the third higest being-body was, thanks to the third being-food, coated and perfected; and when these completely perfected higher-being parts were divided from the lower being-parts, then they were deemed worthy to be immediately united with the Most Most Holy Prime-Source and began to fulfill their Divine foredained purpose..." --G.I. Gurdjieff (First Series) "...this lower being-body of theirs is, in their own sacred cosmic law of the Triamazikamno, the indespesable source for certain kind of denying manifestaions, and as such, of course, always must and will manifest only as denying for their affirming part, that is, that the manifestaion of this lower being-part of theirs must obligatorily be always opposite to what is required for them by their higher being-part. "in other words, every wish for of the planetary body is taken as undesirable for the higher divine part which has to be coated and perfected, and therefore all three-centered beings of our Great Megalocosmos constantly carry on a relentless struggle against the wishes of their planetary bodies so that there should be formed in them in this struggle (...) those sacred crystallizations from which their highest Divine being-part arises and is perfected in them." --G.I. Gurdjieff (First Series) "The "I" in a real man represent that totality of the functioning of his general psyche whose factors have their origin in the results of contemplation, or simply in the contact *BETWEEN* the factors of his inner world and of his outer world." --G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series) "The Third world is his own world *DEPENDING NEITHER* upon his "outer world", *NOR* upon his "inner world"; that is to say, it is *INDEPENDENT* of the caprices of the processes that flow *in him* as well as the imperfections in these processes (that bring them about)." --G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series) "Only he can have *his own initiative* for *perceptions and manifestations* in whose common presence there has been formed, in an independent and intentional manner, the totality of factors necessary for the functioning of this third world." --G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series) "...And it is indeed in this sense that one must understand that saying, common to all the old religious teachings, that "man receives all his possibilities *FROM ON HIGH*..." --G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series)
A truly astonishing comment. We thank you for leaving it here. All that you say and quote is most definitely so , and has been lucidly pared down to the essential elements. There is nothing to add to it. It's all there. All the best , Lara and Noel. Ps , the creating of the third world which is neither dependent upon his outer world , nor upon his inner world , is something which can never be described (i,e, what occurs here) nevertheless it is one of the central aims of the work. One which eludes most
A great magician created the English language. He imagined kings and queens, tragedies and comedies, and the whole society is whirling in this mechanical, magical trap ever since (nobody ever invented a single word, only repeated Shakespeare's words over and over). But you noble people, Lara and Noel, are working on something new, something rare. Don't want to touch gold only the shiny consciousness. Beautiful.
I saw the man , His figure reached from earth to heaven and was clad in a purple mantle. He stood deep in foliage and flowers and his head , on which was the head-band of an initiate , seemed to disappear into infinity. Before him on a cube-shaped alter were four symbols of magic... the sceptre , the cup , the swords and the pentacle. His right hand pointed to heaven , his left to earth. Under his mantle he wore a white tunic girded with a serpent swallowing its tail. His face was luminous and serene , and when his eyes met mine , I felt that he saw the most intimate recesses of my soul. I saw myself reflected in him as in a mirror and in his eyes I seemed to look upon myself. And I heard a voice saying , Look , this is the great magician. With his hands he unites heaven and earth , and the four elements that form the world are controlled by him. The four symbols before him are the four letters of God , the signs of the four elements , fire , water , air , earth. I trembled before the depths of the mysteries I touched. The words I heard seemed to be uttered by the great magician himself , and it was as though he spoke to me. I was in deep trepidation and at moments I felt there was nothing before me except the blue sky ; but within me a window opened through which I could see unearthly things and hear unearthly voices. The symbolism of the tarot , card one , the magician , P.D.Ouspensky
Very much appreciate this video, certainly something for me to reflect over. I always find it useful when certain aspects of the work are discussed and fleshed out in detail as when reading it's certainly possible to miss points made which might be substantial. Recent subscriber
Hello , there. Yes. Certain aspects of the work must be discussed and fully fleshed out. The points we miss are usually the most substantial. Take an extract from one of the work books and fully absorb it , reading with attention and slowly. At the same time , bring in aspects of your own life experience and meld them together. The results are incredible. Otherwise , it is just read mechanically and produces no result whatsoever. Here is Mr. Gurdjieff speaking about this in wartime meeting number 2...."read only a little---a page at a time. At first you must try to understand with your head , then to feel , to experience. And then come back and think. Exercise yourself to read with your three centers. In each book there is material for enriching oneself. It doesn't matter what you read and it doesn't matter the quantity , but the quality of the way of reading." 11 March 1943
I just watched this again and heard and saw completely different things….when I read my comment about Toto, I had no idea what I was talking about or why? The comment seemed stupid and not connected to anything at all. I changed the RUclips address name yesterday. But my human name is still Marilyn :)
@Opensky3535 Your initial comment was far from stupid . We were very happy to learn the name of the pup in the wizard of Oz 🐶 😊 After all , Gurdjieff's work is referred to as "all and everything." And Toto the pup is also included in this "all and everything. 🐶 😍
@@hermesnoelthefourthway well, in that case Toto was also a very good band in the 80’s….and although I loved it, I have never quite understood what their song Africa was really all about? :)
Hello Noel and Lara I have been listening to your videos binge style for a little while now & am transfixed, something resonates and feels- as I have newly learnt- “vivifying”. Profound discussions with moments of hilarity. I subscribed after I came across a video of Noel’s tour of Watkins- its one of my treasured places so anyone doing a tour of it I have to watch. I go there every time I’m in London but never looked at the Fourth Way section, being drawn to animism, alchemy & Jung mainly. Since then I have been again & bought O’s The Fourth Way, ISOTM & G’s Tales. Listening now to your “indescribable” experience where you felt born again Noel, made me think of an experience I had that is also beyond description. I was walking to work it was about 7am. Normally I’m in my head, full of a running commentary of my daily concerns (“Influence A Turmoil” is an excellent description!) while embedded in my immediate surroundings- the familiar streets, roads and paths, the workplace that I’m heading to, the buildings etc. It was becoming light, and I observed the nearly full moon in the sky. Suddenly everything expanded and went vast, my town, my surroundings disappeared, the moon was just hanging above me I was completely in the open, not on my route but on the surface of our planet with the moon alongside and everything felt vast around me I was full of awe. I was mystified, I thought “how do we just ignore THIS? How do we ignore where we really are?” It was disorienting and overwhelming, kind of scary, not because I was having this unusual experience but because I knew it was closest to reality I had been, and I knew it was too much for my mind to hold. All together at once though, as a whole, what I was at that moment in the context of the vastness of everything is indescribable and it didn’t last very long. I do think about it but never feel that vivid full experience I had at the time. Thank you both for what you share, it’s opens up something new and exciting.
I had had quite a few experiences which fit into this very category of "indescribable" in which I saw felt and sensed many things which for a long time I had trouble explaining even to myself. Nevertheless I persisted in my studies and out of nowhere ISOTM fell as if from the sky, and what a gift! I felt from the very first few pages that what was being spoken of here was some sacred and untimely truth, that I had found what I'd been looking for or rather that it found me. After many experiments and certain quite mystical experiences in the departament for the altering of consciousness I knew that I'd touched something that reached far deeper than 'life' as I'd hitherto known it ever could. A reality that actually felt real. Thank you for sharing your extraordinary experience -Lara
Hello , there , I'm glad you enjoyed my Watkins tour video. That really was a day and a half. As you know , it's like being in a veritable Alladin's cave of esoterica. With regards my being born again experience , it was as though all that went before it was unreal and without substance , mechanical , and limited. And then , suddenly , it was as though a completely different world had been entered. An astonishingly vivid , deeply real one , in which nothing was impossible. And , yes , of course , there was a huge expansion of consciousness. It was a fearless world , one of joy and affirmation. One can , and I did , feel somewhat unnerved by such experiences , the unearthly element of it. However , I now realize that the real fear is that of the clanking , mechanical world , in which no one is real and limitations are rife in every direction. I have now settled into the new state and it has created a vibrational energy of quite an extraodinary kind , which wasn't there before. For this , I have the work to thank . Cheers , Noel
@@hermesnoelthefourthway Thank you both for your replies and sharing thoughts on your own experiences, its very helpful and interesting to read about. I think as Noel puts it it does feel "unearthly" and for me afterwards (it was a few years ago) it was like "what do I do with that experience, that "knowing" I had- its too fleeting and vast to hold", and one is so embedded in Influence A life and not having guidance, you just plod on mechanically. I believe the Work provides guidance and is helping me understand more and yes Lara it feels like a gift.. Best wishes
@@VerdantBliss "I already knew then as an undoubted fact that beyond the thin film of false reality there existed another reality from which , for some reason , something separated us. The "miraculous" was a penetration into this unknown reality." Ouspensky , chapter one , In search of the miraculous
The magician tells them they are good sheep and feeds them very well. Then one day he slaughters them and makes a nice lamb stew. But this conscious flock discover what is really happening and make a getaway. Ewe know what I mean 🐑🐑🐑 "The trick the magician pulls off in the hypnotizing of his flock is so blatently obvious , it beggers belief that no one sees it." Maurice Nicoll , commentaries vol. "Man is becoming a willing slave. He grows fond of his slavery." Gurdjieff
Thank you , Dave. Yes . We are aware of Alexander Waugh' s theories and book on the authorship of Shakespeare's play. He attributes them to Edward de Vere , the 17th Earl of Oxford. And manages to construct a three volume , 1500 page book on this theory. One of the most interesting theories is that Francis Bacon faked his own death and went to Transylvania , only to reappear as the Count Saint Germain , and then wrote the plays ! Nobody will ever know who wrote them. Although it is certain that they were the product of an esoteric school , i , e , conscious beings who created them for a definite effect and purpose. Lights upon the way , shall we say ? There is a superb article by Michael White for parabola magazine , available online , concerning Gurdjieff and Shakespeare entitled The esoteric Shakespeare. Highly recommened
very poignant conversation , i like. strange though using frogs as a symbol of fame, ego, attention seeking borne again begotten child of frog Gods, etc Frogs have such calm and tranquil damenour , and appear llike meditating yogis . Dickinson must have had some personal issues with them . Reminds me of Haiku of the great master Basho, Silence of Ancient Pond Frog Jumps in Plop... Such a imagery and insight by the great master besides other things about the psychology of the frog!
How peculiar and passing strange. Heket is the ancient Egyptian goddess of fertility and rebirth , depicted with the head of a frog . And what is the central theme of our reading ? None other than rebirth. The Emily Dickinson poem came from nowhere as we were preparing the piece. All we can think of here is Christopher Fremantle's quote ......."when we do the work conscious spirits help us." Thank you for the Haiku
WOW. Incredible. Thank you beyond!
Hi , Rick ,
"I don't wish to learn about the work , I wish to become it."
Rene Daumal.
As all of us must.
"If a person thinks they are something when they are nothing , they deceive themselves."
Galatians 6.3
"The body is an animal, the psyche a child"
"I have to make the body understand it must obey, not command"
"When our *ATTENTION* is strongly concentrated *IN FRONT* of the various movements of our thinking, feeling and body (*THIS*) Produces a substance similar to electricity. It is necessary to accumulate this material for a second body to be formed"
"There is in us naturally a permanent conflict between the psyche and the organic, body. They have different natures--one wishes, the other does not wish. There is a confrontation that we must reinforce voluntary by our work"
"If I am not related to something higher I am nothing"
"I experience a look from above, a sense of "I" above the head. I see especially that the "I" is really the intelligence, the master of "me"
--Jeanne De Salzmann (The Reality of Being)
"...these 'higher-perfected-being-bodies' (that is) 'souls'..."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (First Series)
"...when these higher-being-parts arose (...) and were perfected in beings to the required graduation of Objective Reason (...) the body-Kesdjan was, thanks to the second-being food formed in beings (...) the third higest being-body was, thanks to the third being-food, coated and perfected; and when these completely perfected higher-being parts were divided from the lower being-parts, then they were deemed worthy to be immediately united with the Most Most Holy Prime-Source and began to fulfill their Divine foredained purpose..."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (First Series)
"...this lower being-body of theirs is, in their own sacred cosmic law of the Triamazikamno, the indespesable source for certain kind of denying manifestaions, and as such, of course, always must and will manifest only as denying for their affirming part, that is, that the manifestaion of this lower being-part of theirs must obligatorily be always opposite to what is required for them by their higher being-part.
"in other words, every wish for of the planetary body is taken as undesirable for the higher divine part which has to be coated and perfected, and therefore all three-centered beings of our Great Megalocosmos constantly carry on a relentless struggle against the wishes of their planetary bodies so that there should be formed in them in this struggle (...) those sacred crystallizations from which their highest Divine being-part arises and is perfected in them."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (First Series)
"The "I" in a real man represent that totality of the functioning of his general psyche whose factors have their origin in the results of contemplation, or simply in the contact *BETWEEN* the factors of his inner world and of his outer world."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series)
"The Third world is his own world *DEPENDING NEITHER* upon his "outer world", *NOR* upon his "inner world"; that is to say, it is *INDEPENDENT* of the caprices of the processes that flow *in him* as well as the imperfections in these processes (that bring them about)."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series)
"Only he can have *his own initiative* for *perceptions and manifestations* in whose common presence there has been formed, in an independent and intentional manner, the totality of factors necessary for the functioning of this third world."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series)
"...And it is indeed in this sense that one must understand that saying, common to all the old religious teachings, that
"man receives all his possibilities *FROM ON HIGH*..."
--G.I. Gurdjieff (Third Series)
A truly astonishing comment. We thank you for leaving it here. All that you say and quote is most definitely so , and has been lucidly pared down to the essential elements. There is nothing to add to it. It's all there.
All the best ,
Lara and Noel.
Ps , the creating of the third world which is neither dependent upon his outer world , nor upon his inner world , is something which can never be described (i,e, what occurs here) nevertheless it is one of the central aims of the work. One which eludes most
Just wonderful❤thank you❤
A great magician created the English language. He imagined kings and queens, tragedies and comedies, and the whole society is whirling in this mechanical, magical trap ever since (nobody ever invented a single word, only repeated Shakespeare's words over and over). But you noble people, Lara and Noel, are working on something new, something rare. Don't want to touch gold only the shiny consciousness. Beautiful.
I saw the man ,
His figure reached from earth to heaven and was clad in a purple mantle. He stood deep in foliage and flowers and his head , on which was the head-band of an initiate , seemed to disappear into infinity.
Before him on a cube-shaped alter were four symbols of magic...
the sceptre , the cup , the swords and the pentacle.
His right hand pointed to heaven , his left to earth.
Under his mantle he wore a white tunic girded with a serpent swallowing its tail.
His face was luminous and serene , and when his eyes met mine , I felt that he saw the most intimate recesses of my soul.
I saw myself reflected in him as in a mirror and in his eyes I seemed to look upon myself.
And I heard a voice saying ,
Look , this is the great magician.
With his hands he unites heaven and earth , and the four elements that form the world are controlled by him.
The four symbols before him are the four letters of God , the signs of the four elements , fire , water , air , earth.
I trembled before the depths of the mysteries I touched.
The words I heard seemed to be uttered by the great magician himself , and it was as though he spoke to me.
I was in deep trepidation and at moments I felt there was nothing before me except the blue sky ; but within me a window opened through which I could see unearthly things and hear unearthly voices.
The symbolism of the tarot , card one , the magician , P.D.Ouspensky
Very much appreciate this video, certainly something for me to reflect over. I always find it useful when certain aspects of the work are discussed and fleshed out in detail as when reading it's certainly possible to miss points made which might be substantial.
Recent subscriber
Hello , there.
Yes. Certain aspects of the work must be discussed and fully fleshed out.
The points we miss are usually the most substantial.
Take an extract from one of the work books and fully absorb it , reading with attention and slowly. At the same time , bring in aspects of your own life experience and meld them together. The results are incredible. Otherwise , it is just read mechanically and produces no result whatsoever.
Here is Mr. Gurdjieff speaking about this in wartime meeting number 2...."read only a little---a page at a time. At first you must try to understand with your head , then to feel , to experience. And then come back and think. Exercise yourself to read with your three centers. In each book there is material for enriching oneself. It doesn't matter what you read and it doesn't matter the quantity , but the quality of the way of reading."
11 March 1943
Rouse the weary sleep body;
So that she may become the buddy
Of nobody!
Thank you my friends you inspire well!
“All men who repeat a line from Shakespeare ARE William Shakespeare.”
No one is good or bard but thinking makes them so.
Paraphrase of Hamlet's act 2 , scene 2 speech
Swimming in tricky currents today, both in an actual sea and another in a sea of notes.😊
Thank you for that reading and transportation.
Toto was the dog. ❤
Hello , Marilyn. Glad you were transported.
How are things with you these days.
Lara and Noel
@@hermesnoelthefourthway well, to tell you the truth, I feel like God has found my most sensitive corn and is giving it a very good stomping on :)
I just watched this again and heard and saw completely different things….when I read my comment about Toto, I had no idea what I was talking about or why? The comment seemed stupid and not connected to anything at all.
I changed the RUclips address name yesterday. But my human name is still Marilyn :)
@Opensky3535
Your initial comment was far from stupid . We were very happy to learn the name of the pup in the wizard of Oz 🐶 😊
After all , Gurdjieff's work is referred to as "all and everything." And Toto the pup is also included in this "all and everything. 🐶 😍
@@hermesnoelthefourthway well, in that case Toto was also a very good band in the 80’s….and although I loved it, I have never quite understood what their song Africa was really all about? :)
Hello Noel and Lara
I have been listening to your videos binge style for a little while now & am transfixed, something resonates and feels- as I have newly learnt- “vivifying”. Profound discussions with moments of hilarity.
I subscribed after I came across a video of Noel’s tour of Watkins- its one of my treasured places so anyone doing a tour of it I have to watch. I go there every time I’m in London but never looked at the Fourth Way section, being drawn to animism, alchemy & Jung mainly. Since then I have been again & bought O’s The Fourth Way, ISOTM & G’s Tales.
Listening now to your “indescribable” experience where you felt born again Noel, made me think of an experience I had that is also beyond description.
I was walking to work it was about 7am. Normally I’m in my head, full of a running commentary of my daily concerns (“Influence A Turmoil” is an excellent description!) while embedded in my immediate surroundings- the familiar streets, roads and paths, the workplace that I’m heading to, the buildings etc.
It was becoming light, and I observed the nearly full moon in the sky. Suddenly everything expanded and went vast, my town, my surroundings disappeared, the moon was just hanging above me I was completely in the open, not on my route but on the surface of our planet with the moon alongside and everything felt vast around me I was full of awe. I was mystified, I thought “how do we just ignore THIS? How do we ignore where we really are?”
It was disorienting and overwhelming, kind of scary, not because I was having this unusual experience but because I knew it was closest to reality I had been, and I knew it was too much for my mind to hold.
All together at once though, as a whole, what I was at that moment in the context of the vastness of everything is indescribable and it didn’t last very long. I do think about it but never feel that vivid full experience I had at the time.
Thank you both for what you share, it’s opens up something new and exciting.
I had had quite a few experiences which fit into this very category of "indescribable" in which I saw felt and sensed many things which for a long time I had trouble explaining even to myself.
Nevertheless I persisted in my studies and out of nowhere ISOTM fell as if from the sky, and what a gift!
I felt from the very first few pages that what was being spoken of here was some sacred and untimely truth, that I had found what I'd been looking for or rather that it found me.
After many experiments and certain quite mystical experiences in the departament for the altering of consciousness I knew that I'd touched something that reached far deeper than 'life' as I'd hitherto known it ever could. A reality that actually felt real.
Thank you for sharing your extraordinary experience
-Lara
Hello , there ,
I'm glad you enjoyed my Watkins tour video. That really was a day and a half. As you know , it's like being in a veritable Alladin's cave of esoterica.
With regards my being born again experience , it was as though all that went before it was unreal and without substance , mechanical , and limited. And then , suddenly , it was as though a completely different world had been entered. An astonishingly vivid , deeply real one , in which nothing was impossible. And , yes , of course , there was a huge expansion of consciousness. It was a fearless world , one of joy and affirmation. One can , and I did , feel somewhat unnerved by such experiences , the unearthly element of it. However , I now realize that the real fear is that of the clanking , mechanical world , in which no one is real and limitations are rife in every direction. I have now settled into the new state and it has created a vibrational energy of quite an extraodinary kind , which wasn't there before. For this , I have the work to thank .
Cheers ,
Noel
@@hermesnoelthefourthway
Thank you both for your replies and sharing thoughts on your own experiences, its very helpful and interesting to read about.
I think as Noel puts it it does feel "unearthly" and for me afterwards (it was a few years ago) it was like "what do I do with that experience, that "knowing" I had- its too fleeting and vast to hold", and one is so embedded in Influence A life and not having guidance, you just plod on mechanically.
I believe the Work provides guidance and is helping me understand more and yes Lara it feels like a gift..
Best wishes
@@VerdantBliss
"I already knew then as an undoubted fact that beyond the thin film of false reality there existed another reality from which , for some reason , something separated us.
The "miraculous" was a penetration into this unknown reality."
Ouspensky , chapter one , In search of the miraculous
@@hermesnoelthefourthway Thank you! That's a wonderful quote 😊
First conscious flock!
The magician tells them they are good sheep and feeds them very well. Then one day he slaughters them and makes a nice lamb stew.
But this conscious flock discover what is really happening and make a getaway. Ewe know what I mean 🐑🐑🐑
"The trick the magician pulls off in the hypnotizing of his flock is so blatently obvious , it beggers belief that no one sees it."
Maurice Nicoll , commentaries vol.
"Man is becoming a willing slave.
He grows fond of his slavery."
Gurdjieff
I'm no Thing, just a Sting!?
Great stuff . ❤. On a tangent, are you aware of the great work on the identity of the real SHAKESPEARE done by the late Alexander Waugh?….peace
Thank you , Dave. Yes . We are aware of Alexander Waugh' s theories and book on the authorship of Shakespeare's play. He attributes them to Edward de Vere , the 17th Earl of Oxford. And manages to construct a three volume , 1500 page book on this theory. One of the most interesting theories is that Francis Bacon faked his own death and went to Transylvania , only to reappear as the Count Saint Germain , and then wrote the plays !
Nobody will ever know who wrote them. Although it is certain that they were the product of an esoteric school , i , e , conscious beings who created them for a definite effect and purpose. Lights upon the way , shall we say ?
There is a superb article by Michael White for parabola magazine , available online , concerning Gurdjieff and Shakespeare entitled The esoteric Shakespeare. Highly recommened
very poignant conversation , i like.
strange though using frogs as a symbol of fame, ego, attention seeking borne again begotten child of frog Gods, etc Frogs have such calm and tranquil damenour , and appear llike meditating yogis . Dickinson must have had some personal issues with them . Reminds me of Haiku of the great master Basho,
Silence of Ancient Pond
Frog Jumps in
Plop...
Such a imagery and insight by the great master besides other things about the psychology of the frog!
How peculiar and passing strange. Heket is the ancient Egyptian goddess of fertility and rebirth , depicted with the head of a frog . And what is the central theme of our reading ? None other than rebirth. The Emily Dickinson poem came from nowhere as we were preparing the piece.
All we can think of here is Christopher Fremantle's quote ......."when we do the work conscious spirits help us."
Thank you for the Haiku