@@simiuciacia Structured COBOL programming (Fifth Edition)1988 by Nancy Stern and The Programmer's ANSI COBOL reference Manual(First Edition) by David Sordillo. Both huge thick books 📚😀
I started back in the sixties writing COBOL programs on IBM mainframes. IBM also had their own language called PL1 which was similar to COBOL that never took off.
As a current CS student, getting a mainframe career would be pretty cool since I’m a fan of having a well paid and secure job with a great work life balance over constantly grinding to maximize total compensation. I actually stumbled upon your video looking for “how to get a COBOL job.” There’s really not a ton of resources out there. I’ll check out IBMs program and see if I can squeeze it in between my classes. From your personal experience, do you think a mainframe job is something a student/recent grad is able to land (in the sense that people who haven’t even completed their CS degrees land jobs as SWEs)?
Tried Gnu COBOL a few months ago, looking for something to do databases in, only to find that indexed-data support seems not to work. "compiler is not configured to support ORGANIZATION INDEXED", it says when I try to compile. Apparently I'm supposed to get the C source and recompile the COBOL compiler or something...
I'm in the process of changing careers from Admin to IT. I've been advised by a programming manager at work to delve into Cobol. The only catch right now is finding someone that teaches this programming language.
I USED COBOL THE REST OF MY LIFE UNTIL I RETIRE. I STARTED IN THE 70s. CONVERTED COBOL TO COBOL-II. WORKED AS A CONSULTANT IN COBOL, CICS, DB2 PROJECTS. ALSO WORKED WITH CA-SCHEDULER AND DB2 UTILTIES SUCH AS PLATINUM, DBA TOOLS AND PERFORMANCE MONITORING TOOLS.
Djin, I really think this guy needs to be segregated. We don't need script-kiddies and black-hat hackers learning how the data centres' old methods of data storage were done. This is just going to lead to more system attacks on financial institutions. Think about it....Don't anyone be telling todays kids how to program in rpg1 or rpg2, Haskell, Cobol, or anything else, based upon their lack of scruples ..... I wouldn't even teach them Basic. Nuff Said....... Stay Safe
Nope, COBOL have gatekeepers. Those old people don't want to train anyone because they don't want to be replaced. Companies want someone to have 15 years experience. It's crazy.
I agree! Also a lot a life insurance and pensions applications are written in COBOL. Some programs are used for tens of years, and they have a lot of modifications during that period, so they are very complex. Even if Java or another language will be used for new apps development, it is almost impossible to port the logic from complex programs already written in COBOL to another programming languages in order that new programs to function 100% like old COBOL ones (maybe AI will be able to do).
I agree. It is almost impossible to port the logic from complex programs already written in COBOL to another language. The engineers are long deceased or retired.
Well, as a Cobol Developer, I wouldn’t say “almost impossible to port the logic”. Though, it would be a lot easier if the rewrite wasn’t a paradigm shift from the original design. The challenge lies in going from a procedural approach to object oriented. Since the mainframe also has C/C++ compilers, with the right tools, seems to me, though it may get a bit tedious, it be far either to rewrite existing Cobol programs into C.
😂 not at the moment considering I’ve never worked with the language before. Might be a good series of videos demonstrating my learning process 🤔🤔🤔 thanks for the idea 🙌
@tanzimibthesam5861 I think Rust is probably the overall best to learn because it’s going to get more widely adopted and will have a longer future. I also think it will end up being used by systems that previously used COBOL, but my main point is the complete lack of competition in the COBOL programming landscape in terms of active developers, plus the fact that so many mission critical systems use it. It provides a level of job security that other languages don’t. But yeah, rust is awesome.
Although Puthon is my favorite programming language, I like COBOL a lot. It's structured and easy. I like old school and am not a huge fan of OOP (although COBOL can now use it). Although the language itself is easy to learn, you also need to learn many related technologies, such as JCL, DB2, IDCAMS, VSAM file processing, ISPF, CICS, etc. I was an IBM mainframe programmer/analyst decades ago. I'm retired and have been self studying to be a Data Analyst or Scientist. However, I think I will review what I knew and get back into being a COBOL programmer.
Another old language that offers opportunities is APL. Deeply weird, but a number of manor legacy systems run on it. I know a lady who earns big money as a freelance working on APL banking systems. The problem is building the experience that would give clients the confidence to let you work on their missions critical systems.
Someone using assembly/machine code could attack a system and the COBOL programmers wouldn't have any idea something was up. I worry often if there are any special security systems that keep an idea on the systems and will be able to repair any corruption.
I am a cobol systems analyst. My profile is more of a developer. I have more than 15 years of experience and have worked in the 3 largest banks in Brazil. I was looking for opportunities in the USA. How difficult is it to get an opportunity for a foreigner?
@@Lucas-e6h Eu vejo aqui no banco onde trabalho que a demanda de desenvolvimento em cloud aumenta. As demandas de manutenção de legado existirão. Tudo de novo que existir, dependendo do sistema(eu trabalho no sistema de investimentos), não pensam mais em criar mais arquitetura de microserviços envolvendo mainframe.
@@eflorencio Eu trabalho com Java para um banco, mas tô bem cansado da atualização de tecnologias, de me manter atualizado constantemente, estou pensando em ir pro Cobol pois é uma tecnologia morta, estudou uma vez e será basicamente aquilo, mesmo que la na frente seja o fim da carreira… já tô em um nível tá complicado seguir me atualizando hahaha
@@Lucas-e6h Entendi. Cobol nunca morrerá. Estou pensando em me tornar um full stack por conta de salários. Cobol já teve sua onda. Hoje é cloud, IA. Estou também vendo que em a onda de blockchain. É uma onda que quero surfar. Acho que vai pegar essa coisa de smart contracts e moedas eletrônicas.
One thing to young people, if you don't have experience with command line, terminal commands, bash scripts, batch jobs it will be hard because you must learn this old school environment
After all IA boom you still thinking that way? Personal questions about me: I have an opportunity in a company, where they teach me COBOL and they give me a job with it... and Im really considering do the jump (now im a fullstack in JS ecosystem, and im have very low experience). 1) Do you do the stack tecnology change? I mean, my thought are about my future carreer, if I change COBOL now, who wants me as JS developer then ?? 2) and when I want to leave this company (and I will someday, because they pay only 200 usd because I will be a trainee, and they pay to a senior only 1k usd) in a year or two, I will be abble to find another COBOL job with fair pay? or Im wasting time there? Thanks for reading, I like the video, the way that you see the work in Cobol i agree with You, but only if you have a company gives you a job
Hey, alone with learning Cobol, I would think you'll also need get a hold of any opportunities get experience with other languages. I would think you may then market your self with dual resumes. One with Cobol and the other with non-Cobol experiences. From my experience, once you get pigeonholed as a Cobol programmer, it's tough to break out
@@marcuswilliams3455 Thanks for your answer, Marcus. The idea of dual resumes is very interesting; I will give it a chance! Thanks for your time, best regards!
Took me 3 weeks to do the Teach Yourself Cobol course, my employer was too tight to send me on the IBM course. Then 6 months to be useful, and a further 18 months before proficient. So, anyone with less than 2 years experience, will only get trainee rates. In the 1990s I was earning 2,000 British pounds a week, but after Y2K, work dried up, and rates dropped
IBM is using right now, chatgpt to migrate a lot of COBOL programs to Java lately.... a source from IBM told me lately. I guess others are doing the same thing too.
Yeah, I’m sure they are. The issue is that most AI, even at enterprise level of use, isn’t capable of being fully autonomous to do a full project conversion of a program from one language to another. So issues will inevitably be introduced. I know they now have the capability for unit testing with COBOL which is important but I’m not sure it’s wise to trust AI to do the migration of such mission critical code bases. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. 🙏
That's absurd lmao. People who want programmers for cobol work want to pay like 100k/year. I get paid 600k/year for the work I do in C++. In any case, the language doesn't matter, a competent engineer will pick any language in 2 weeks or less. Just do what you like and learn the language needed for that job.
The code in every programming language will eventually become legacy code. Age of several languages in 2024: Fortran ----> 70 Cobol ----> 60 C ----> 50+ C++ ----> 40+ Python ----> 30+ Java ----> 29 Javascript ----> 29 C# ----> 20+ Go lang ----> 17 Rust lang ----> 14 Spoken English ----> 1,400 ??? If it is old, do not use it ??? The latest versions of cobol are object oriented.
Along with COBOL you need to know JCL, CICS, DB2, VSAM would be helpful too..
The book I'm studying out of has all those too. It's a book thick thick as a brick 😳🎈
@@manuelgonzales6483If I may ask, what's the name of the book?
@@simiuciacia Structured COBOL programming (Fifth Edition)1988 by Nancy Stern and The Programmer's ANSI COBOL reference Manual(First Edition) by David Sordillo. Both huge thick books 📚😀
Also FileAid and Easytrieve
0i08😊😊😊😊😊@@manuelgonzales6483
I started back in the sixties writing COBOL programs on IBM mainframes. IBM also had their own language called PL1 which was similar to COBOL that never took off.
I am learning to code and I find COBOL really good since it makes the code easy to read
As a current CS student, getting a mainframe career would be pretty cool since I’m a fan of having a well paid and secure job with a great work life balance over constantly grinding to maximize total compensation. I actually stumbled upon your video looking for “how to get a COBOL job.” There’s really not a ton of resources out there.
I’ll check out IBMs program and see if I can squeeze it in between my classes. From your personal experience, do you think a mainframe job is something a student/recent grad is able to land (in the sense that people who haven’t even completed their CS degrees land jobs as SWEs)?
Tried Gnu COBOL a few months ago, looking for something to do databases in, only to find that indexed-data support seems not to work. "compiler is not configured to support ORGANIZATION INDEXED", it says when I try to compile. Apparently I'm supposed to get the C source and recompile the COBOL compiler or something...
I'm in the process of changing careers from Admin to IT. I've been advised by a programming manager at work to delve into Cobol. The only catch right now is finding someone that teaches this programming language.
I USED COBOL THE REST OF MY LIFE UNTIL I RETIRE. I STARTED IN THE 70s. CONVERTED COBOL TO COBOL-II. WORKED AS A CONSULTANT IN COBOL, CICS, DB2 PROJECTS. ALSO WORKED WITH CA-SCHEDULER AND DB2 UTILTIES SUCH AS PLATINUM, DBA TOOLS AND PERFORMANCE MONITORING TOOLS.
Djin, I really think this guy needs to be segregated. We don't need script-kiddies and black-hat hackers learning how the data centres' old methods of data storage were done. This is just going to lead to more system attacks on financial institutions. Think about it....Don't anyone be telling todays kids how to program in rpg1 or rpg2, Haskell, Cobol, or anything else, based upon their lack of scruples ..... I wouldn't even teach them Basic.
Nuff Said....... Stay Safe
As on old guy, who used to program in C/C++, I like the idea of programming in COBOL.
Nope, COBOL have gatekeepers. Those old people don't want to train anyone because they don't want to be replaced. Companies want someone to have 15 years experience. It's crazy.
I agree! Also a lot a life insurance and pensions applications are written in COBOL. Some programs are used for tens of years, and they have a lot of modifications during that period, so they are very complex. Even if Java or another language will be used for new apps development, it is almost impossible to port the logic from complex programs already written in COBOL to another programming languages in order that new programs to function 100% like old COBOL ones (maybe AI will be able to do).
I agree. It is almost impossible to port the logic from complex programs already written in COBOL to another language. The engineers are long deceased or retired.
Well, as a Cobol Developer, I wouldn’t say “almost impossible to port the logic”. Though, it would be a lot easier if the rewrite wasn’t a paradigm shift from the original design. The challenge lies in going from a procedural approach to object oriented. Since the mainframe also has C/C++ compilers, with the right tools, seems to me, though it may get a bit tedious, it be far either to rewrite existing Cobol programs into C.
Are you bringing a playlist of Cobol from beginners to Ninja
😂 not at the moment considering I’ve never worked with the language before. Might be a good series of videos demonstrating my learning process 🤔🤔🤔 thanks for the idea 🙌
@@PixemWeb But wouldnt it be better to go for something like Rust which is a bit popular but has way less Real world usage
@tanzimibthesam5861 I think Rust is probably the overall best to learn because it’s going to get more widely adopted and will have a longer future. I also think it will end up being used by systems that previously used COBOL, but my main point is the complete lack of competition in the COBOL programming landscape in terms of active developers, plus the fact that so many mission critical systems use it. It provides a level of job security that other languages don’t. But yeah, rust is awesome.
I have a COBOL course. Definitely from beginners. If Ninja is even possible with COBOL, I leave up to debate.
I read that a large portion of all code ,more than half maybe, is COBOL!
I think it would be cool to learn Cobol and fotran,..the business sector depends on cobol
Although Puthon is my favorite programming language, I like COBOL a lot. It's structured and easy. I like old school and am not a huge fan of OOP (although COBOL can now use it). Although the language itself is easy to learn, you also need to learn many related technologies, such as JCL, DB2, IDCAMS, VSAM file processing, ISPF, CICS, etc. I was an IBM mainframe programmer/analyst decades ago. I'm retired and have been self studying to be a Data Analyst or Scientist. However, I think I will review what I knew and get back into being a COBOL programmer.
Another old language that offers opportunities is APL. Deeply weird, but a number of manor legacy systems run on it. I know a lady who earns big money as a freelance working on APL banking systems. The problem is building the experience that would give clients the confidence to let you work on their missions critical systems.
I'm considering changing careers from Java to Cobol
Will AI replace the need for COBOL coders?
Nope. Would multi billion corporations trust hallucinating llm with decades old code that runs the world? Probably not
possibly
Eventually but when is the crucial question.
Someone using assembly/machine code could attack a system and the COBOL programmers wouldn't have any idea something was up. I worry often if there are any special security systems that keep an idea on the systems and will be able to repair any corruption.
Right on it, and loving MVS while practicing. It's a beautiful environment
I am a cobol systems analyst. My profile is more of a developer. I have more than 15 years of experience and have worked in the 3 largest banks in Brazil. I was looking for opportunities in the USA. How difficult is it to get an opportunity for a foreigner?
It should be easy for you with your experience.
Acha uma boa trocar Java por Cobol?
@@Lucas-e6h Eu vejo aqui no banco onde trabalho que a demanda de desenvolvimento em cloud aumenta. As demandas de manutenção de legado existirão. Tudo de novo que existir, dependendo do sistema(eu trabalho no sistema de investimentos), não pensam mais em criar mais arquitetura de microserviços envolvendo mainframe.
@@eflorencio Eu trabalho com Java para um banco, mas tô bem cansado da atualização de tecnologias, de me manter atualizado constantemente, estou pensando em ir pro Cobol pois é uma tecnologia morta, estudou uma vez e será basicamente aquilo, mesmo que la na frente seja o fim da carreira… já tô em um nível tá complicado seguir me atualizando hahaha
@@Lucas-e6h Entendi. Cobol nunca morrerá. Estou pensando em me tornar um full stack por conta de salários. Cobol já teve sua onda. Hoje é cloud, IA. Estou também vendo que em a onda de blockchain. É uma onda que quero surfar. Acho que vai pegar essa coisa de smart contracts e moedas eletrônicas.
As one who migrated a system (insurance company) from a mainframe to servers in another language its not easy.
If COBOL is important as you said, where are you supposed to get that mainframe computer experience?
I’ve been actively researching this. IBM has developed a free training course in order to “get people experienced” with the language asap.
@@Death_Metal_Head IBM's course is more or less abandoned. Also, Mainframe is much, much more than just learning COBOL as a programming language.
One thing to young people, if you don't have experience with command line, terminal commands, bash scripts, batch jobs it will be hard because you must learn this old school environment
Thanks!
COBOL and Java.
Yeah, both are languages that provide a lot of opportunities.
Yeah COBOL is, if you don't value your mental health 😂
I don't care my mental health, I need money
@@cbalmo fine go have a burnout I guess
Don't knock COBOL if you haven't tried it. It's actually easy to write and maintain, and kind of fun. It's just different than what you are used to.
After all IA boom you still thinking that way?
Personal questions about me:
I have an opportunity in a company, where they teach me COBOL and they give me a job with it... and Im really considering do the jump (now im a fullstack in JS ecosystem, and im have very low experience).
1) Do you do the stack tecnology change? I mean, my thought are about my future carreer, if I change COBOL now, who wants me as JS developer then ??
2) and when I want to leave this company (and I will someday, because they pay only 200 usd because I will be a trainee, and they pay to a senior only 1k usd) in a year or two, I will be abble to find another COBOL job with fair pay? or Im wasting time there?
Thanks for reading, I like the video, the way that you see the work in Cobol i agree with You, but only if you have a company gives you a job
Hey, alone with learning Cobol, I would think you'll also need get a hold of any opportunities get experience with other languages. I would think you may then market your self with dual resumes. One with Cobol and the other with non-Cobol experiences. From my experience, once you get pigeonholed as a Cobol programmer, it's tough to break out
@@marcuswilliams3455 Thanks for your answer, Marcus. The idea of dual resumes is very interesting; I will give it a chance!
Thanks for your time, best regards!
I'm working in fintech consulting. All these stories about Cobol are complete nonsense. There are not many of these projects these days.
I'm teaching myself COBOL. I want to make the high $$🤪
It's hard to learn?
@@RedMarley Are you asking me if it's hard to learn, or making a statement that it is hard to learn????🎈😳
@@manuelgonzales6483 asking..
Took me 3 weeks to do the Teach Yourself Cobol course, my employer was too tight to send me on the IBM course. Then 6 months to be useful, and a further 18 months before proficient. So, anyone with less than 2 years experience, will only get trainee rates. In the 1990s I was earning 2,000 British pounds a week, but after Y2K, work dried up, and rates dropped
I'm a 1 year experienced Cobol dev making ~40K$/year. I confirm it is now very high in the beginning.
What is a solid resource to learn COBOL today?
I would say java is the safest choice
Java is another language that would be a solid choice to learn. It’s used basically everywhere. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts.
IBM is using right now, chatgpt to migrate a lot of COBOL programs to Java lately.... a source from IBM told me lately. I guess others are doing the same thing too.
Yeah, I’m sure they are. The issue is that most AI, even at enterprise level of use, isn’t capable of being fully autonomous to do a full project conversion of a program from one language to another. So issues will inevitably be introduced. I know they now have the capability for unit testing with COBOL which is important but I’m not sure it’s wise to trust AI to do the migration of such mission critical code bases. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. 🙏
That's absurd lmao. People who want programmers for cobol work want to pay like 100k/year. I get paid 600k/year for the work I do in C++. In any case, the language doesn't matter, a competent engineer will pick any language in 2 weeks or less. Just do what you like and learn the language needed for that job.
The code in every programming language will eventually become legacy code.
Age of several languages in 2024:
Fortran ----> 70
Cobol ----> 60
C ----> 50+
C++ ----> 40+
Python ----> 30+
Java ----> 29
Javascript ----> 29
C# ----> 20+
Go lang ----> 17
Rust lang ----> 14
Spoken English ----> 1,400
??? If it is old, do not use it ???
The latest versions of cobol are object oriented.
WHUT ?
You can not get a job with just cobol, this is myth. Plus you will need 10÷ Years of experience. Cobol pay is very low I n 2024. Sorry😢
COBOL is going to be replaced very soon, AI is evolving faster than we thought. The Safest programming language are the top 10 languages.
I can program in COBOL, but as a mature American straight white male I have a negative DEI score so no company will even look at me.
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