Did We Just Detect Dyson Spheres? Featuring Dr. Gabriella Contardo
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- A new paper by Gabriella Contardo and David W. Hogg, reveals a large-scale search combining observations from ESA Gaia DR3, 2MASS, and NASA WISE, leading to the identification of 53 unique objects with significant mid-infrared excesses, potentially indicative of Dyson Spheres or Alien megastructures.
‘Dyson spheres’ were theorized as a way to detect alien life. Scientists say they’ve found potential evidence
www.cnn.com/20...
Papers
"A Data-Driven Search For Mid-Infrared Excesses Among Five Million Main-Sequence FGK Stars", Contardo and Hogg, 2024
arxiv.org/abs/...
"Project Hephaistos - II. Dyson sphere candidates from Gaia DR3, 2MASS, and WISE", Suazo et al, 2024
arxiv.org/abs/...
"IRAS-based Whole-Sky Upper Limit on Dyson Spheres", Carrigan, 2005
arxiv.org/pdf/...
A planetary collision afterglow and transit of the resultant debris cloud
www.nature.com...
A Star-sized Impact-produced Dust Clump in the Terrestrial Zone of the HD 166191 System
iopscience.iop...
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Basically, these searchers are seeking a needle in the biggest haystack imaginable and they really don't have a very accurate description of a needle. Yet, they persist. Kudos
At the end of the paper it says don't know.
@@shugo1047 SUCH bitterness! Doesn't mommy let you upstairs?
@@shugo1047 Cringe human. Who gave you unsupervised access to the internet?
@@deker0954 “the paper … says don't know” - No paper said "now we know for sure" ever, despite the impression that the news creates. It's never black or white, either. We've learned that there exists something that we don't know how to explain. Surely we've learned something new, but do we _don't know_ more or less?
The most "observational" papers aren't about new observations at all; they instead scavenge the immense datasets that we've been gathering for decades.
It's always at the edge. GRBs are a fitting example. Do you know how many γ-photons are registered during a short GRB? Sometimes as few as 5-7. But they tightly fit the GRB light curve, and the curve itself is known from hundreds of accumulated observations and the discovery of patterns in data. If we hadn't recorded the energy, detector orientation and the precise time of arrival of every detected γ-particle for years, we mightn't have even known about the true number of observed GRBs, we wouldn't firmly establish that there are distinct patterns of short and long GRBs, etc. A few ultra-luminous events detected by the Vela satellites out of sheer luck were the first “we have no idea except something is certainly going on” of the GRB study. Then we started collecting the data, photon by photon. 50+ years later, we know much more about their sources but also appreciate how much we really don't know about them... You don't read about this painstaking data digging in the news.
The biased expectation from a paper imparted by the press is that it ought to be about some huge discovery. But with a more cautious eye, what they do is take a paper and hype it until it no longer makes any sense. Better be listening in awe how we extract data from deafening noise, tiny drop by tiny drop, till the bucket finally overflow, even if it's not aliens in the end. This is how real science is made.
@@shugo1047 “do you think you really understand much? … Everyone learns at their own pace” - Why, of course we all marvel at how smart and nimble a mind you are! “You may not be attuned to the politics involved in the sciences” - I see, they didn't appreciate your true brilliance and kicked you out of academia. But that's not a reason for lashing out at a random person. Cheers, lad.
Me and my partner are about to settle down and listen to this in our hotel room. Hello from Scotland!
Hello! Cheers! Have pleasant dreams.
Wish I had a partner interested in science
Good luck with Germany tomorrow/today.
@@randomideas991 You do. You have me. :)
@@randomideas991 That's the truth, while I'm in my office listening to science YT videos, mine is in the living room watching Ghost Hunting videos of all things!! 🤣😂
I always watch your videos twice. I work shifts, starting at 5am everyday. I come home and have lunch and fall asleep listening. Then driving back to work in the afternoon, listen again to your fascinating content. The only channel on youtube that helps me sleep and helps me wake up. Absolutely brilliant content yet again. Thank you.
Video is out 3 min. 30 likes. We love you John
Gotta be sure we give the algorithm some lovin' before falling asleep!! 😉
@@Benson_aka_devils_advocate_88 He does have a nice voice to fall asleep to.
the problem i have with dyson spheres is that a civilization that can build such a massive structure already probably knows how to produce fusion energy.. it would be much more efficient to build many small fusion reactors than envelope a star with some primitive "solar cells" or whatever they would use for photons when you can go straight to the source of the power.
Fusion reactors are a stepping stone to Dyson swarms. ruclips.net/video/9mXTwSli8Pg/видео.htmlsi=vhwLR60r8XbCkryK
@@alphazero6571 Fusion reactors would be the equivalent of a battery to civilizations that need this level of energy. They just can't scale after a certain point.
It's like running a car on batteries versus trying to run a planet on them. They're good enough for one but not the other.
keep up the good work Dr Contardo
Have we considered that a type 3 civilization would encapsulate multiple stars, making entire systems invisible to us. The mater would still be there, but from our perspective, it would be completely dark.
An encapsulated star wouldn’t look like the absence of a star.
If they still need to radiate heat(which is likely AFAIK) then they would still show up in IR.
The base assumption is that you could block out most of the light with the collectors but eventually you suffer from the law of diminishing returns so at some point theyd stop going for 100%. But assuming that they did, they still wouldnt contain all the waste heat because theres really nothing you can do with it. The infrared would say theres a star there, but we'd be getting very little light, and that's what makes a candidate.
I would say it’s safe to assume that if a civilization is that far ahead, they also have laws of nature known to them that we still haven’t identified fully.
Great channel, one of the best bringing professionalism and entertainment in one package
Appreciate that.
Greetings from the Emerald Isle.
Cheers!
Thanks for the video John! Hello from NYC!
No way I was just on my way to listen to Event Horizon and I got the notification for this!
Perfect timing!
20:00 - 50 in 5 000 000 - 1: 100 000 is fraking LOT considering we're talking about supposed artifacts visible on interstellar distances (only successfully created ones!). It would be also nice to discuss their spatial distribution, as Milky Way is anywhere between 100 and 400 billion starts which would yield even 1 000 000 (!) in entire galaxy after simplistic extrapolation. Hello?
Would it be more efficient to setup a dyson sphere in a system that still has a debrit field before it differentiates and accreets in to planets? Right now we can only mine up to seven miles deep so the majority of resources on our planet are unavailable.
Great to see that people all over the world watch Event Horizon 👍
Good timing indeed. Lstening to this to fall asleep now! And will listen to the rest tomorrow 😉
Greetings from Groningen in the Netherlands!
Greetings! Sleep well!
You are in top form these days. Thank you so much for these videos, nobody does it better.
I know people have been enamored by the idea of Dyson Spheres, but it seems to me that any civilization advanced enough to do it, would not. Has anyone thought through the amount of mass it would require? More than is found in most solar systems. Look at how many planets will fit into our sun for instance. I would think that a civilization that advanced would have much smaller and more exotic energy sources.
Have two videos for you.
ruclips.net/video/RUCFhu-05A4/видео.htmlsi=WurICg1v49WqToKT
ruclips.net/video/9mXTwSli8Pg/видео.htmlsi=IrZOJf5GcKc2zbnb
@@EventHorizonShow Thanks, I'll watch them. It is a fascinating topic, but I doubt any advanced civilization would consider it a good idea. On the other hand, it is a vast universe and most anything could be happening somewhere.
That’s the thing Buddy, if intelligent life is out there, then there will be all sorts of unexpected surprises and things that we recognize.
@buddypage11 most of JMGs videos about dyson spheres do pretty much say what you are saying and redefine how we see dyson spheres. Thry don't have to be a solid shell covering a sun, it makes much more sense for it to be many platforms collecting energy etc.
And I'm sure in one of these videos he says that dyson himself didn't say it would fully surround the sun like in star trek.
Mass requirements are surprisingly low. It's ENERGY to move and arrange material in Dyson swarm and reactive mass that is difficult.
John, there's nothing more annoying than an interviewer who doesn't flow with or allow their guests to speak. Thankfully you don't do any of that and all of your work is 10/10, will watch again on repeat. ❤
No comments about the content? Only emotional ones. The content is more interesting than the show feeling.
What do you think about the topic covered?
Show is just out, your discussion will come! :)
That said I believe that the reason we are so curious about these topics is mostly emotional and that is fine! What is our place in the universe? Are we alone? Where did we come from? You know we really feel deep about those questions!
Well said Jasper.
@@shugo1047if it wasn't for shows like this one I would never sleep lol. Fascinating yes, puts me right to sleep, also yes 😂
@@EventHorizonShow Hello, John! In light of new methods and technology, it is expected to discover new natural and strange phenomena. However, it's VERY fascinating that a few red dwarfs exhibited infrared radiation up to 60 times (!) brighter than expected for stars of their type and age. Maybe I missed it (because I also love to listen to this before sleep), but the exact factor of excess infrared radiation for "her stars" wasn't specified by Dr. Gabriella Contardo. I think this factor of excess would really make a big difference in assigning a probability of technosignatures.
This video is really interesting! It's worth watching to expand your knowledge on this topic!
Always loved the Dyson swarm idea. What makes me think it’s not the immense quantity of matter needed to build such structure or the advanced engineering and technological capabilities, it’s why would they need so much energy locally, probably due to an exotic way of travel, to keep portals open or to feed an advanced AI 🤯
Great show I love this podcast from ireland
Our second comment from Ireland on this video! We love our Irish friends. Thank you for watching.
If an alien species has the technology to produce a dyson spehere would it not be possible for them to harness the sun in other ways such as from the inside out? Send something to the surface or centre of the sun instead of from orbit?
Aliens sent a survey team into the Sun but didn't hear back from them.
They use the suns energy up close and personal, nothing is what we've been told, nothing.
thats some Farscape -class idea. Love it.
You are correct. No alien civilization that advanced are going to waste the time and resources doing a Dyson Sphere when there are other much easier methods.
Another classic episode, thank you John.
❤️👍🏴
Congratulations on 300k
young stars dont sound like a bad place to build a dyson swarm/sphere. lots of raw material around to use and lots of life left in the star
I can't remember the name of the law, but if a click-bait title is in the form of a question, the answer is always NO. Now I will listen to it to verify it...
imagine commenting before watching it
Betteridge's Law of Headlines?
Seems like for NIIR the sparial resolution and spectral unmixing could be a problem for anomaly detection could be tough if something is in the pixels with the target.
saw the title and wanted to answer: no
I've been following this with other content creators. Such stories really get the imaginative juices flowing! Sexy Orion girls from Star Trek, or Twi'leks from Star Wars? Everything, and anything could lie between the concepts, or even something our brains could not even recognize! This is as exciting as astronomy gets!
Over the top science fiction ideas are not astronomy. Looking for Dyson spheres is like looking for the Death Star from Star Wars.
@@LemonsAndSalt69 That depends on where you get your definition of a Dyson sphere from. If you get it from science fiction, the big solid shell encasing a star, then that's actually termed a Stapledon-Dyson sphere, but Dyson himself said it shouldn't be called that, because it's actually a Stapledon-Kardashev shell and Dyson believed them to be mechanically impossible (but he did calculate the mass needed, and it's 1 Jupiter mass. Anyone that says we don't have enough mass is wrong. We do. It's just the wrong material). If you get your definition from Dyson's paper, then spotting one is really easy. All you need is a pair of binoculars. Starlink is a spherical shell of satellites orbiting a gravitational body serving as solar energy collectors. They are not in orbit of the sun directly, but we can do that too. All of our defunct and active solar orbit probes already constitute a Dyson swarm, albeit one in its very first stages. So if you take it from what Dyson actually suggested, then a Dyson sphere as he very vaguely defined it is inevitable for a space faring species. It's not merely astronomy, we already have one, and the big one around earth is doing a number on astronomical observations. You want astronomy, ask any astronomer what they think of Star Link and see what they say about Elon's very bright Dyson swarm that's exceeded over 5000 satellite at this point all criss crossing through the astronomical photography.
In short, thanks Star Trek the Next Generation for getting everyone thinking Dyson's concept was something it wasn't. They literally depicted the one thing Dyson said in the original paper probably wasn't possible to do with the concept.
There is non zero chance that dyson spheres exists. Really.. In the vastness of Space we can find something... It is worth to have them in mind. Whatever Your research is. Great research congrats.
John I Just love Your work ❤
You have never built anything, there is a zero chance that that a Dyson sphere has ever been built.
It is a stupid idea created by another idiot who never bukit anything.
Great interview, thanks so much to you and Dr. Gabriella Contardo!
If there is a question in your mind: Should I make this video louder? Always say yes :)
Is no-one going to mention Eryn's perfect language skills in the intro?
I will, oh yes, she's good. In many languages.
An AI society building dyson sphere environments is what we might evolve into in a few million years. AI ascension beyond physicality is more likely though.
Brilliant guest
I am waaayyyy too tired for this
Gotta come back & rewatch when able to comprehend 🙏🏻
The obvious way to detect unusual stuff in general is usually to train the system to detect the usual stuff in general. When something doesn't match the prediction then you flag that.
Hm, he discounted some things but I never thought of looking at the shape because these are really Dyson array megastructures if real
Hey guys!!
My wife and I were sitting on the porch watching the moon rise. We the got into moon phases and its path through the night sky over the course of a year. We live in south central Michigan USA.
Soon we found our conversation drift to the orbits of the planets in our solar system, and then on to the path of the sun through the Milky Way. I’m getting somewhere lol.
I have an honest question regarding Debis Disks. With the sun streaking through the galaxy, and the objects in our solar system orbiting the sun, not like a disk but kinda like tentacles of a jelly fish (you get my analogy 😉), would a debris “disk” look more like the tail of a comet or the like?
I’m obviously not a scientist but I’m sure you get the idea. It seems to me that if that were the case, or even partially, the signature of a Dyson Swarm would be evident.
Thank you! Really enjoy the content
21:58 - When are you going to interview the guy who found the possible spatial clustering of seeming analogues of Boyajian's Star (apparent dimming of F-class stars).
These?
ruclips.net/video/ACKOD5mmH-0/видео.htmlsi=UAW0YXkNFTUMnRMz
fantastic episode.
First contact, when or if it happens. Will most likely be a conversation traversed between artificial intelligence…
Indeeeeeeeeeeeed….., 🤓💚♾️
This is so exciting! So many possible dyson swarms? Even if just 1 of them is the real thing!!! How exciting! ❤❤
*sometimes I feel like the ways we are looking for other intelligent civilizations out there are equivalent of an fish trying to understand what it’s looking at when lifted from its pond and “shown” the world above its 2 dimensional world it was used too.*
I don’t think we quite are grasping that if a type III cog is out there, we likely would not be able to identify it because the kinds of tech they would have likely would be so very foreign to the tech we know of at current understanding.
Idk if that makes sense that way I explained it but I just don’t think we would even be able to grasp what those civs would even resemble because we are only able to compare with what we already know. And we are just in the beginning stages of technological advances. And we can barely even leave this planet, much less with humans for extended periods of time etc
100 years ago we just were starting to understand radio itself lol we are just starting still, and tons of physics theory’s already have “holes” in them on several levels(macro, micro, sub atomic etc)
We really have a lot to go still imo
Yes, it's very rare that people can acknowledge and accept the bulk of reality that we cannot expect to comprehend. It's sad to see science hijacked by people who cannot accept their own limitations.
wow straight off the bat with the hard hitting questions, awesome
Dr. Contardo was an excellent guest!
What about FRBs as a techno signature? If one is out of place? Like you said @JMG if you HAD FTL there would be bursts of Gamma when you slowed down. Have we looked into that? Also, are there any new papers out on the Wow! Signal?
Just wait, we will be delving into that subject soon.
A friend and I were talking about Dyson spheres one time, and I remember him telling me "Any civilization that can build a Dyson sphere likely has no need of one.".
Honestly he is likely right.
If they are that far ahead they would likely have grasped how to gather energy from the quantum mechanics or dark energy itself.
Both of which we know very little of at this point, specifically dark matter and dark energy. Meanwhile it’s the most abundant stuff out there, everywhere.
Need to get JWST looking at some of these objects next...
We don't need to have JWST to look for Dyson spheres. Any telescope that can watch a star and measure light anomalies, could find one. Of course Dyson spheres are so ridiculously over the top and unnecessary for an advanced civilization -- of course, we've observed nothing of the kind.
JWST already has. It made three observations of the type F star KIC 8462852 last summer. That specific star, colloquially known as Tabby's Star, initially got attention because it looked like a partial Dyson sphere. That's no longer on the table because they were able determine that the material in orbit of the star is particulate and not structures of any large size in a swarm or Arnold configuration. The trouble is, and why the JWST observation was made, is that no natural explanation currently fits either because there is no infrared excess which is demanded of materials in orbit of a star by the laws of thermodynamics. JWST is an infrared telescope, far more sensitive than the previous telescope used, so perhaps it can resolve the discrepancy, but the paper reporting the results is not out yet.
@@JohnMichaelGodier Thanks for the detailed response! I do recall this happening with KIC 8462852. Hopefully we can gain some additional knowledge by observing these other 53 or so objects and getting some indication of whether we've found a pattern suggesting something mundane...or something rather exotic. 53 out of millions observed is a rather low percentage.
I would guess a civilization capable of building a dyson sphere would have likely figured out large scale fusion and use that instead.
“would have likely figured out large scale fusion” - Sure thing! Even we did. We call it the Sun...
Greetings from Earth!
That's a great question.... Always.
It’s Thursday! 😊
That background noise, not the music, is really distracting.
🎉 i sure wounder !
how did you make this comment 12 hours ago, and the video was posted 3 minutes ago?
They are a member on our channel. We post episodes early for members.
@@EventHorizonShoweveryone should be a member, the quality of each video is 1st class
Another awesome episode! Love this channel and podcast.
Glad you enjoy it!
Honduran accent? Or French?
I don't know, they both sound the same to me when speaking English.
I would think that constant filtering would leave some weird left-over data.
I know how to create a dyson sphere, but I'd just get laugh reacts. Same everytime I try to enlighten people on how these things work.
Time to roll one up and relax
Too much bass in the voice track. I have to reduce the bass to zero as in the evenings the bass carries to other rooms!
Suddenly its a better afternoon
Love this, weirdo stars are fascinating!
Interesting the thumbnail looks like the shape of the Tabby's star shadow. They would have to be the same difference in sophistication as we are to the cave men
Lovely accents at the start!
In 1979, a commercial pilot with more than 100 people on board was forced to make an emergency landing after being chased by 5 luminous objects, objects that were captured by several radars and seen by several people after they made an approach to the runway at the airport, this happened in Spain and it's called the Manises case..when are we going to start looking at what happens in our backyard and above all listen to those respectable people who have been involved in very credible cases of encounters with the highly strange and start looking for answers here on Earth
If you want to waste your time chasing your tail over a nothing incident, go ahead. If you really had faith that the Spain incident is an extraterrestrial encounter, you'd be investigating the incident rather than making useless comments on RUclips -- asking other people to do all the work while you sit in your bedroom.
The US government has already stated that unidentified aerial phenomenon or U.A.P's are a thing but stated that we still do not understand The nature of the phenomenon. Now do they have ongoing research or do they have more information than they're releasing?, unknown.
I read that in the A-Team intro voice.
@@LemonsAndSalt69 How can someone investigate if the government keeps all the data? they say oh yeah you can go look for dyson spheres it's too far away it poses no threat to national security..can't you see this is follow the money science..what kind of scientist is satisfied with always the same explanation for all cases like lights from factory towers, or the planet Venus, meteorites, satellites..let's assume that everyone is on drugs..nice
The more i think about it, the more the concept of Dyson spheres sounds ridiculous. For one, what kind of material do you build with? We can only build so high before the sheer weight of a building crushes itself. To make a Dyson sphere would be like making a planet from scratch in terms of resource demand. Even if you use a red drawf, thats alot of materials you would have to construct while being blasted with radiation the whole time. And then, logically, how to do start the project? If you start on one side, gravity will tug it into the host star. You would have to continuously use vast amounts of resources to hold the pieces in place as the entirety is built. Youre not just putting that much mass together in a partial ring with a stable orbit to keep it in place while the rest gets built. Gravity alone would ruin the project.
Not to mention, this is all dependent on an advances species coming to the conclusion that it wont live a sustainable existance and will only consume and consume ane consume until theres nothing left.
What would be so intelligent about doing that?
I think the logical way forward is to stay as a humble species. Do away with technology and all our excess and greed and become a humble and modest people.
I think if we continue on this path, we will become the very predatory species we fear might be listening in on our radio signals or whatever. Theres a line somewhere rhat if crossed, ive no doubt that we will become a predatory species that kills and enslaves every other advanced species we encounter.
Good stuff
Why make the machine look for outliers when you can let it categorize them all. As a second step you look at all the categories the machine came up with and all those that didn't fit into a single one.
Thank you for opening the eyes of the experts in the field and the whole scientific world.
@@nagLostInEntropy you know how the soviets were able to build the most successful space program? When their scientists couldn't solve a problem, they asked a bunch of school kids for solutions, and it worked. That's why all their tech is simple but robust. Sometimes people who spent their whole live working on one topic stop thinking outside the box and that's just human. It's like this saying "if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail".
My comment is not an insult to anyone, it's just a suggestion to make use of different tools that already exist and are even used commercially, for example by netflix.
Bedtime already?!
👍
👍👍
👍👍
Be funny to find the first confirmed sign of life outside earth and be informed by that first by good ol JMG
Can we get the Event Horizon intro woman as a voice option for ChatGPT pls
*I blame all the dark energy on the exhaust the aliens release from their model year-3408 starships*
And that’s why we don’t see coral reefs in space anymore
#AliensPleaseStop
Did we just detect the GOAT? JMG baby, IYKYK.
Great video and information !
Hi, my name is like Like.
Dyson spheres like light sabers are science fiction
That's what's great about it, or the universe. There's a lot of possibilities for theoretical existence like location, size, shape, or even if we are able to distinguish it as technology, as we see technology now. It just as might be so advanced, that it doesn't look like or emit anything close to what we'd call technology. Alien design is something truly unfathomable to us. There might be something out there, or might have been, or will be - but we can't assume that we'd even recognize it.
Unreal
Discovering Dyson spheres would strongly favor the Zoo Hypothesis, which I personally favor.
If we had found a Dyson Sphere, it would've been all over the news worldwide.
www.cnn.com/2024/06/13/science/dyson-spheres-alien-life-evidence-scn/index.html
thank you from finland!
John John John, muah!
Yup
Your just fine,.. You live on a wonderful nourishing planet that looks after you, it's in the goldilocks zone, but one random action can have you spinning out of control 😱😁
A possum in a Lebaron just told me to watch this video
Dyson Spheres… Check ✅
Confirmation bias: humans invented the concept now have to imagine the reality.
One word NO
close minded
@@user-xg8ut5kh9j obviously you are located in cloud cuckooland
Can I answer 😮
Why didn't she say 'Flat Iron' in a New York accent?
PS. Love your work as always ❤
I kicked myelf for not.
Could we way back in the day have used active volcanoes that produce electrical discharges and find a safe lava tube to set up smelting and casting systems for metals to create those alloys of aluminum and hardened steel that we still have not found how they have done them otherwise he said information on this topic thank you very much for your great work
I think jumping to the conclusion or seriously considering the data represents stars with Dyson spheres is insanely stupid. I would defund her entire lab.
There is no jumping to conclusions here. They’re merely candidates because they fit the model of what a Dyson sphere signature would look like. You’d defund everyone who did science this way?
@@EventHorizonShow I just think the odds of it being Dyson Spheres is very close to zero and shouldn’t really be considered at all until every other feasible possibility is eliminated. Realize there are young people watching this who think this is really possible, and to be honest, it’s not.
What’s not possible? Intelligent life? Dyson spheres/swarms? Us finding signs of megastructures? Clear that up a bit please. - Ross
@@EventHorizonShow I suppose all of those things have varying degrees of possibility, but in my opinion the existence of Dyson Spheres is very improbable due to the amount of matter required to construct such an object. Very cool idea to ponder though.
🎉
When will Dyson stop pissing around with domestic appliances and get on with the real work?
No...
Lmao there are already aliens here. You guys are playing in an old and broken sandbox
No.
🖖👽
I really hope they dont find any aliens. I want whole galaxy just for us