Momentum completely transforms Chaos island dude. Genuinely playing the island with jump deceleration turned all the way down makes it feel completely different and it changes what I considered the lowest point of the game into possibly my favorite island.
You can avoid most 2D sections by not touching certain dash pads on ground or avoiding nearly all dash pads on rails. 2D sections weren’t too bad after that.
@@dreamsdeep1076 2d sections were easy to avoid. The thing that really got on my nerves was the 5 minutes of mundane rail grinding you had to do to get literally anywhere, which can now be skipped with some clever platforming
@@hotcocoabomb_though it was fun because it’s challenging. Plus people liked rail cannon in heroes and they were nothing but rails and the reason why they were hated is because switching from rail to rail is so finicky that death is likely
I hope they keep Boost and Spin Dash in the next title. In Frontiers, the Boost keeps you glued to the ground and the Spin Dash sends you flying all over the place. I like those options.
I agree. Fans have tried to create both at the same time and even argue that they can’t be combined, but I think Sega cracked the code of having the spindash and boost coexist. The tech u can pull off with Sonic’s movement with both traversal and combat feels extremely solid now and dare I say possibly the best it’s ever felt in 3d (minus the jump and homing attack). Cyberspace even feels like it’s in the conversation with gens and unleashed now. This single update took a 6 maybe 7 out of 10 game to a solid 9 out of 10 for me.
Spin Dash actually has a knockback property so I love using it in combat cause you can spin past for a second and jump and you land on the enemy bouncing. However a skill stops it and activates a cutscenes move. So I hope they fix that bug if they keep it. Best move in game lol
I think too much emphasis on momentum in platforming will ruin the balance of this game. I mean... think about it. There are hundreds of memory tokens around the islands. You can't design a "new koco" like puzzle for each one (or the game will need 10 years of development time). Even if they DO make a complex platforming puzzle for each memory token, it will make the game too long and a drag. In Frontiers, you won't spend over a minute on 1 memory token before going to the next one. It gives the game great pacing. I agree the platforming segments behind the memory tokens are very simple, but the point is not to focus on each one individually, but on meeting the quota for story progression (or 100% if you're a completionist). If Frontiers 2 will give the memory tokens more "meaty" platforming challenges, it'll have to cut the amount of overall tokens to compensate for the length. Unfortunately, even if they do so, it'll come at the cost of less interesting island design. One of the coolest things about Frontiers's islands design is that they have platforming challenges that often send you to another challenge nearby so you can immediately collect another memory token. It always felt like the maps were interconnected so well to offer constant engagement. It's thanks to the platforming challenges being relatively short and simple that the map design was this good. Giving us longer, but less overall, platforming challenges will likely make the map feel less interconnected and more messy. I don't think it's a good trade-off. I prefer memory tokens platforming challenges to stay as they are now. If anything, these more challenging platforming challenges made for the new koco should serve as the template for cyberspace in the next game. Incorporating these ideas to new typical Sonic stages sounds real good and won't hinder the map design (as well as avoid reusing old layouts).
Update 2 is literally a Proof of Concept that “Momentum” can work with the Boost. They just need to build Sonic’s Movement around TRUE MOMENTUM and a World that takes advantage of it. What makes me worried though is the fact it’s part of the Sliders, if they keep it Optional then they’ll never be able to take full Advantage of it.
@@Terminal_Apotosyes actually tinker with settings you can get it to near identical controls and physics. Put one of adventure games on side to replicate it.
@@dreamsdeep1076 No, the jump has an annoying Arch no matter what and you don’t gain/lose speed going up or down Hills, homing attacks feel NOWHERE near as good as the adventure games. Not to mention other Gameplay factors like Rails being completely mindless in Frontiers, or loss of extra depth like how you’d Go higher after hitting a Spring and holding the button in the Adventure games.
I was very surprised to see that the momentum wasn't even advertised before Update 2 came out. It makes me so much more excited for what other hidden features might be in Update 3!
Seeing that momentum is back, and how well it's incorporated into the game (kinda). I would love to see stage design similar to the fan game Sonic GT, as it has an open level design that encourages the player to use momentum and the different paths of each stage to find the fasest route to the finish, and I think that would really compliment the open-zone games.
Momentum is crazy with this game I love using new abilities to keep inventing new ways to platform. I love the new update even if it’s technically just a demo for future games
4:11 whoa Matt pulling that hard R on that one damn. Jokes aside, the idea of momentum, especially in a Soninc game, is something I desprately need. It gives way more creative freedom to the player and allows to see the true potential of what Sonic can do with his speed. And fan games have demonstrated that's possible.
They should make momentum based platforming based from boosting off flat ramps and spindashing off round slopes without any panels and bumpers required (unless you're a sonic noob) Which in my opinion is the best gameplay formula for the next sonic game, for me at least.
Momentum has been something I've wanted for YEARS and I'm happy to finally see 3D Sonic finally use it for once. We see fan games doing it constantly and it's wild to think that it took this long for Sonic team to give it a shot. I hate and love being a Sonic fan because there're so many cool ideas and concepts on the table but questionable execution given to us fans CONSTANTLY to the point where we can't even have faith if a game is gonna be good or not. I just hope things get better. That's all we can do really
Take a shot every time he says “Momentum” heheheh! But all jokes aside those puzzles with the slopes were really fun and I kinda agree that dash pads and dash ramp pads should used sparingly in Sonic Games, let the player, Sonic go fast and figure out things on their own.
Unleashed and Generations are my favorite Sonic games ever. If update 3 for Frontiers is great, Frontiers could be the best Sonic game ever. Also, I just became a member of The Mobius Zone. 🎉
6:18 sorry matt but that right there is impossible. Sonic fandom is so diverse we will never have a game everyone agrees is good. Even gens and mania get a bit of hate nowadays.
I'm much more interested in Penny's Big Breakaway since it was made by the guys behind Sonic Mania and was designed from the ground up for momentum based platforming.
I hope the next game keeps the spin dash without making it as overpowered as it is right now. Maybe being able to reach the same speeds but requiring slopes to build up speed or charging the spindash (the charging is now effectively useless since you reach pretty much the same speeds while running and spindashing).
It's fascinating hearing all of this. I'm not touching the game again until update 3 hits and by the sounds of it I'll basically be playing whole new ass game.
Honestly warms my heart to see Spindash return in Frontiers, and even allowing you to skip parts of platforming section like in the Classic/Adventure games. Going forward, I hope Frontiers 2 leans into this and has better physics and more level design/terrain that allows you to use the game physics to string together moves and speedrun platforming challenges. So more organic ramps, slopes, half pipes, etc. Plus could allow for better physics puzzles instead of the minigame puzzles found in game. As it stands, Frontiers reminds me of a more combat focused Spyro the Dragon(Collect macguffins in an open zone using a combo of exploration, minigames, and platforming, sometimes do a flying/boost level). A strong emphasis on physics could make it more its own thing
Don’t like how you can’t unlock it until pretty much there’s nothing left to do in game besides new game+. It’s nice but seeing that makes it not worth it in the end
@@dreamsdeep1076 NGL i was so frustrated when i realized I had to unlock it. I was so scared it would not save with new game + I am happy it does Still i don't like that u have to unlock it. But it's not the worst thing ever if you're max level
The only missing piece is that there’s no slope influence when he’s running, if they add that in and completely got rid of the Boost We’d have a great game on our hands
Would've loved to see how the "Sonic doesn't need momentum" crowd reacted the first time they launched off a steep incline with a well placed spin-dash
The momentum isn't perfect, but this is what the Open Zone formula should be. One problem with it is that Sonic comes to a complete stop after when he lands back on the ground after being in the air. The momentum based level design is something that needs to be expanded upon because I think it'll remind everyone that momentum used to be a primary element of Sonic's moveset and gameplay. I'm a bit worried about the removal of Dash Panels because they were still present in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 to keep you on the run, and nobody really had issues with them in those games. I really enjoyed this Update and it kicked the game straight into the A tier for me which just feels unreal. And one more thing, Sonic CD is goated! ;)
@@CSTH1I mean they are good games. CD is a better experience when going after the robot generators to get the most out of CD’s vertical level design. Without that CD at least to me feels very unfulfilling as Sonic game. The game was deign with that in mind. Keeping 50 rings before goal 🥅 is to cater the Sonic 1 crowd
@@CSTH1it’s impossible to get all time stones and all robot generators before completing the game. When I collected all 6 time stones. Future stages when traveled to past are already destroyed before player imput
Kind of a hot take on my part, but alas… While I’m glad SEGA and Sonic Team were willing to bring back momentum, let’s not get too caught up in the hype. All the various puzzles and Coco challenges Matt talked about in this video? Those aren’t necessarily an example of how momentum can be properly utilized in a Sonic game…they’re more an example of what happens when the devs actually let the players experiment with the tools given to them, instead of constantly forcing them to take the route predetermined by the devs themselves. And the fact that it works so well with Sonic’s momentum-based physics (which, if we’re being honest with ourselves here, is literally just the most basic implementation of game engine physics in general) is more a really cool bonus. All this is to say that even if SEGA and Sonic Team didn’t end up using momentum-based physics as the kingpin behind future Sonic games’ level design, I’d probably be fine with it; What truly matters is that Sonic Team and their devs learn from this game how to make better levels that not only work with Sonic’s general handling and controls, but also give the players enough wiggle room to experiment with Sonic and challenge themselves to find new ways to speedrun the levels.
Love how on twitter you said you dislike this game because it’s not encouraging skill and whatnot and how it needs to be challenging to be consider a good.
@@Terminal_Apotosit was very fun and entertaining to me. The open zone is a giant playground and with momentum physics on slider it makes the experience even better. This game is my third favorite Sonic game after SA1 and SA2
The spindash looks fun but the unlock requirments are absolutely ridiculous. Something that was once part of sonics default moveset shouldn't feel like a 100% bonus like greenhill zone in adventure 2
Frontiers is going to become the Colors of the next generation of Sonic. Loved during its first years of release, but hated by many Sonic fans years later. Mark my words.
I wouldn’t say so because update 3 exists and may change the game more so I wouldn’t count on that. Can see frontiers being the Sonic heroes when it comes to reception years later
@@Matthasnocuts It might just be me but I just get this very subtle hint of jadedness in you from your more recent stuff. I was thinking it could have been all of the constant insanity that is sonic twitter and general discourse wearing on you but again, it could just be me imagining things. Hope you're doing alright though.
I'd say I'm exhausted that Sonic games are still not reaching it's fullest potential despite it seeming so obvious of what SEGA and Sonic Team should do. I'm hoping that changes with the next game. Sonic's always so close but he never crosses the finish line. Overall I'm far from getting tired of Sonic. I may not play the games as much in my free time anymore but I still love discussions in regards to this franchise because there's no other game franchise that can be analyzed like this one. I might be a bit more jaded since I'm coming to terms that we're probably going to have to wait another four years to get another shot at a 3D Sonic game. I'm going to stay a fan though. Thanks for watching my content enough to be able to pick up on such a subtle detail. I appreciate you always coming back!
@@Matthasnocuts Yeah, that's definitely understandable. It really is amazing how far sonic team's been at this series for so long now and they still either do the bare minimum or somehow mess even that up. It's probably a sentiment most fans would agree on. I'm glad to know you've still got the passion burning in you for this franchise and fandom though. It's not easy for everyone. I'll always look forward to seeing your honest thoughts on the latest news or games that may come in the future though. Good luck out there man.
I’m fine with momentum in the next sonic game, but I want sega to bring the game setting system into the next sonic game too, so players can edit their controls to their liking
The sonic frontiers momentum is definitely amazing in my opinion. I definitely think that sonic frontiers was definitely close to the sonic adventure momentum. I definitely want to see a open zone sonic game with a lot of momentum. I don’t think that SEGA can do a game with a lot of momentum. I definitely want SEGA to do more sonic frontiers momentum. SEGA should definitely keep the boost and spindash in the next sonic game. The next sonic game is sonic superstars and I don’t think that sonic superstars has momentum. I definitely want to see more sonic momentum games in the future. I definitely enjoy update 2 for sonic frontiers with momentum. Sonic CD is goated.
Ever since I unlocked the Spin Dash I only used it once and never since them since its not like Adventure 1 but Update 2 made Sonic Frontiers from a B Tier Game to an A Tier Game but when the next Sonic Game comes out they better make the Spin Dash accurately like SA1 including Spam Dash
I mean I disagree with the level design being bad given that the game was not designed around deceleration and the spin dash. As you said, but it’s odd to use that as even a fair comparison
I find it quite weird how you're saying "we" in regards to loving the m word, yet I never cared about that in the 1st place. Though you could probably chalk that up to me not liking Classic Sonic in general considering how often it's spoken about in those games.
This game doesn't have complete momentum but just enough to make people more satisfied with the game and make it little bit more like the sonic adventure games
Personally, what I didn't like about the spindash is that it is basically a boost 2, specially if you look at the physics files you see that the spindash always starts with 65 speed, even if you had like 3 xd. I'd like to see the spindash maintaining your speed so it doesn't feel like free speed, just as the boost.
Relax. The Frontiers is just the Sonic Team testing ground and it's setting up a new formula. Just take a look, the open world (not levels) in the game looks like a bunch of objects were thrown into the default world of the game engine (with some elaboration of the environment). Keep doing feedback. Next really thoughtful with his own specific vision and style Sonic game has been in development for a long time. It's too obvious.
I agree mostly, but I feel as if dash panels do have their use. Especially since Sonic's supposed to be a children's game, and kids might not be able to figure out they need to use momentum to make a jump. There's probably a compromise to made via difficulty selection though.
Momentum was also in frontiers before update 2 it's just a lot smaller almost minuscule amounts and the speed cap when you're not boosting kinda ruined it lmao
Yep in short, momentum isnt even close to being everything about the beloved formula that is the adventure one. The level design was, and that's one of the biggest weak point about frontier and those hill running simulator. Hopefully we will get another game based around momentum, platforming AND exploration + some other gameplay ( playing with other character like sonic's friend for instance). Because yes, treasure hunting, mech stage, chao garden & karting were fun for most of the casual who played the adventure games, not everything has to be sonic running around hills, it is boring for most of the people, by that i mean thats its boring for the non "hardcore sonic fan", would be cool for them and for me to finally have a new sonic game targeting us.
Hopefully the next open zone Sonic game is more Sonic like than frontiers. Unpopular opinion: the islands themes are trash. Except for Ares Island. That island out of all of them felt like a Sonic world.
The fact people are constantly hyping up the "spindash" without criticising the one fatal flaw with it likely means we won't get those slope physics. The problem is It's not a spindash. I don't care if it's fun because that's not my point. You hold down LT and get constant speed. It's the same as the boost and therefore cannot use those slope physics people want. "but you can fly arund the map with it." Ok well you could do the same with the forces boost. The issue is that momentum is malleable speed where as the boost is a constant fixed speed. The spindash in frontiers actually has those momentum physics everyone wants, go up hill and loose speed, go down hill and gain speed; however, you never notice it because the spindash functions like a boost and therfore you get constant speed overriding those physics paramters. If people don't point this out to the devs (which they aren't) then you're going to keep getting the same thing over and over again. If you enjoy that fine, but I would much rather have a game built fully around momentum. There's other issues with it but that's the main one.
Update 2 literally gave me all the things I wanted from this game on release. Everyone who defended this game at launch? Look me in the eyes - *look me DEAD IN THE EYES* - and tell me you'd rather have that version of the game over the one we currently have. LOOK ME IN MY EYES and say that if the game RELEASED in its current state that people would have complained (rightfully so) nearly as much as they did. LIE TO MY FACE AND SAY that the improvements made in Update 2 are not things that SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME DAY ONE. Do it. I DARE you. That being said, I'm very grateful that these thing are here - better late than never and all. It's just. The state this game released in was honestly kind of a joke. Seriously, if Tears of the Kingdom had (somehow) dropped last year, this game would've been raked over the coals. Even now, there still isn't really much of a comparison: TOTK beats Frontiers to hell and back and it isn't even close. Though, to be fair, TOTK did have a clearer template to work off of - and it's not like the game doesn't have it's fair share of issues (believe me - this game's got glitches galore).
@@dreamsdeep1076 I mean. Fair enough. Even though I do have my praises for both games (and actually prefer the current direction over previous 3D Zelda games overall (not by much, but still)), they've definitely got issues. Like. A lot.
You sound very ungrateful to sonicteam for being passionate and even working on adressing fan criticisms. Game was fine day one but update 2 has elevated it. You should really shut up if you have nothing positive to say like this should have been there day one knowing how bad sega was before frontiers release going as far as almost firing Izuka for asking for more time on the game. Its clear they got the message sonic games need more time and budget after frontiers and gave the okay for these dlc updates after seeing the great sales numbers. Also BOTW and TOTK suck and are made by an adhd director that doesn't understand zelda series at all. We don't get adventures anymore or companions or dungeons or compelling NPC's and the one great NPC Kass got removed in TOTK. We don't even get great stories to experience anymore. Everything that was good about zelda is dead and gone and the devs recently said they have no interest in revisiting the old formula at all so 2d zelda is dead and all we get are tehse garbage open worlds now. Zelda devs only see the series as a brand not a franchise and have made this clear recently while Sonicteam sees sonic as a franchise and brand which makes sonicteam far better cause no matter what happens they care greatly for their fans. Sonic frontiers release state was fine and not as bad as you claim. If any release state was a joke it was TOTK. 6 years to greatly improve the open world formula without having to worry about new assets much or designing a new overworld and they release one of the worse products in gaming but yall that like it ate it up cause its zelda but if another company did this it would be thrown into the fiery pits of hell and people would bash it for a decade at least.
honestly Im in the camp that Momentum should never have been abandond as Sonics Core gameplay, and update 2 is fun with everything unlocked but unlocking the spindash(at least on console) is way too fucking annoying and drawn out, the fact you have to get to the final island before you can even have a chance at the spindash is an idea someone needs a massive pay cut over for thinking it was ok and someone else also taking a pay cut for giving the OK on the idea.
Momentum completely transforms Chaos island dude. Genuinely playing the island with jump deceleration turned all the way down makes it feel completely different and it changes what I considered the lowest point of the game into possibly my favorite island.
It already was mine. I love the way it looks.
You can avoid most 2D sections by not touching certain dash pads on ground or avoiding nearly all dash pads on rails. 2D sections weren’t too bad after that.
I forgot to turn down jump deceleration. And I have been having a blast without it I have to to try it with no jump deceleration
@@dreamsdeep1076 2d sections were easy to avoid. The thing that really got on my nerves was the 5 minutes of mundane rail grinding you had to do to get literally anywhere, which can now be skipped with some clever platforming
@@hotcocoabomb_though it was fun because it’s challenging. Plus people liked rail cannon in heroes and they were nothing but rails and the reason why they were hated is because switching from rail to rail is so finicky that death is likely
I hope they keep Boost and Spin Dash in the next title. In Frontiers, the Boost keeps you glued to the ground and the Spin Dash sends you flying all over the place. I like those options.
I agree. Fans have tried to create both at the same time and even argue that they can’t be combined, but I think Sega cracked the code of having the spindash and boost coexist. The tech u can pull off with Sonic’s movement with both traversal and combat feels extremely solid now and dare I say possibly the best it’s ever felt in 3d (minus the jump and homing attack). Cyberspace even feels like it’s in the conversation with gens and unleashed now. This single update took a 6 maybe 7 out of 10 game to a solid 9 out of 10 for me.
I agree that's a perfect way of putting it.I wish I had thought of it like that😄
Spin Dash actually has a knockback property so I love using it in combat cause you can spin past for a second and jump and you land on the enemy bouncing. However a skill stops it and activates a cutscenes move. So I hope they fix that bug if they keep it. Best move in game lol
@@xudokaiThere's a boost mod for SA1, boost and Spin Dash 100% works together
Boost for going fast on the ground and the Spindash for launching into the air. I like the idea.
I keep coming back to Frontiers thanks to this update. Update 3 is gonna go so hard.
Hopefully playable characters works similar to classic games. I hope it’s not like Sonic heroes. Want one character per playthough
I think too much emphasis on momentum in platforming will ruin the balance of this game.
I mean... think about it. There are hundreds of memory tokens around the islands. You can't design a "new koco" like puzzle for each one (or the game will need 10 years of development time).
Even if they DO make a complex platforming puzzle for each memory token, it will make the game too long and a drag. In Frontiers, you won't spend over a minute on 1 memory token before going to the next one. It gives the game great pacing. I agree the platforming segments behind the memory tokens are very simple, but the point is not to focus on each one individually, but on meeting the quota for story progression (or 100% if you're a completionist).
If Frontiers 2 will give the memory tokens more "meaty" platforming challenges, it'll have to cut the amount of overall tokens to compensate for the length.
Unfortunately, even if they do so, it'll come at the cost of less interesting island design. One of the coolest things about Frontiers's islands design is that they have platforming challenges that often send you to another challenge nearby so you can immediately collect another memory token. It always felt like the maps were interconnected so well to offer constant engagement. It's thanks to the platforming challenges being relatively short and simple that the map design was this good. Giving us longer, but less overall, platforming challenges will likely make the map feel less interconnected and more messy. I don't think it's a good trade-off. I prefer memory tokens platforming challenges to stay as they are now.
If anything, these more challenging platforming challenges made for the new koco should serve as the template for cyberspace in the next game. Incorporating these ideas to new typical Sonic stages sounds real good and won't hinder the map design (as well as avoid reusing old layouts).
Update 2 is literally a Proof of Concept that “Momentum” can work with the Boost. They just need to build Sonic’s Movement around TRUE MOMENTUM and a World that takes advantage of it. What makes me worried though is the fact it’s part of the Sliders, if they keep it Optional then they’ll never be able to take full Advantage of it.
It’s as good as adventure games. Comparison videos help to get it as good as SA2 Sonic at least
@@dreamsdeep1076Nope lol.
@@Terminal_Apotosyes actually tinker with settings you can get it to near identical controls and physics. Put one of adventure games on side to replicate it.
@@dreamsdeep1076 No, the jump has an annoying Arch no matter what and you don’t gain/lose speed going up or down Hills, homing attacks feel NOWHERE near as good as the adventure games. Not to mention other Gameplay factors like Rails being completely mindless in Frontiers, or loss of extra depth like how you’d Go higher after hitting a Spring and holding the button in the Adventure games.
@@Terminal_Apotosnever liked momentum physics on rails in adventure 2. Prefer streamline rails introduce in unleashed and future games.
I was very surprised to see that the momentum wasn't even advertised before Update 2 came out. It makes me so much more excited for what other hidden features might be in Update 3!
Lag jumpscare lmao
I didn't even know it was added lol gotta get back to playing
Day 240 of asking for a sonics schoolhouse video
Dude I really hope u get what u want but at the same time no review please
Keep stay consistent my friend, and Matt will listen! I mean, who wouldn't wanna do a review on sonics schoolhouse?
Matt, what what are you doing man
Give thus dude his Sonic Schoolhouse Video
Nah he needs to review game gear games. Schoolhouse is plague on RUclips
My man still won't play Spark 3. Baffling me that a sonic RUclipsr hasn't touched this amazing game.
Seeing that momentum is back, and how well it's incorporated into the game (kinda). I would love to see stage design similar to the fan game Sonic GT, as it has an open level design that encourages the player to use momentum and the different paths of each stage to find the fasest route to the finish, and I think that would really compliment the open-zone games.
Who knows we may see momentum in the next game with the experimenting.This will be awsome
5 year wait again
@@dreamsdeep1076 maybe shorter
Update 2 has successfully made me confident about the future of Frontiers and even Sonic as a whole!
You Love to see it! 🤝
Exciting to see update 3, but the spin dash was amazing.
Momentum is crazy with this game
I love using new abilities to keep inventing new ways to platform. I love the new update even if it’s technically just a demo for future games
Frontiers is now spiritual successor to adventure games just as how 06 was spiritual successor to adventure games
We’re getting closer and closer to a perfect adventure/boost style and that’s really exciting!
Sonic frontiers went to a 10/10. After update 2
Went from 7/7.5 to me now. Update 3 could put that over a 8/10
4:11 whoa Matt pulling that hard R on that one damn.
Jokes aside, the idea of momentum, especially in a Soninc game, is something I desprately need. It gives way more creative freedom to the player and allows to see the true potential of what Sonic can do with his speed. And fan games have demonstrated that's possible.
They should make momentum based platforming based from boosting off flat ramps and spindashing off round slopes without any panels and bumpers required (unless you're a sonic noob)
Which in my opinion is the best gameplay formula for the next sonic game, for me at least.
Loving Alien force Ben in the background 😊
The best combination in my opinion is to give the regular sonic the spin dash and super sonic the boost to separate them apart
I'm getting extreme Sonic Lost World vibes over here and i'm not sure if i like that feeling or not
Momentum has been something I've wanted for YEARS and I'm happy to finally see 3D Sonic finally use it for once. We see fan games doing it constantly and it's wild to think that it took this long for Sonic team to give it a shot. I hate and love being a Sonic fan because there're so many cool ideas and concepts on the table but questionable execution given to us fans CONSTANTLY to the point where we can't even have faith if a game is gonna be good or not. I just hope things get better. That's all we can do really
Yeah, this is just the start of Momentum for Modern Sonic. But It Ain’t Peak
Take a shot every time he says “Momentum” heheheh!
But all jokes aside those puzzles with the slopes were really fun and I kinda agree that dash pads and dash ramp pads should used sparingly in Sonic Games, let the player, Sonic go fast and figure out things on their own.
Unleashed and Generations are my favorite Sonic games ever. If update 3 for Frontiers is great, Frontiers could be the best Sonic game ever. Also, I just became a member of The Mobius Zone. 🎉
6:18 sorry matt but that right there is impossible. Sonic fandom is so diverse we will never have a game everyone agrees is good. Even gens and mania get a bit of hate nowadays.
Aw man.
the instant i gained hope for the future level design was when i played through the koco challenge with the line of ramps on kronos island
I'm much more interested in Penny's Big Breakaway since it was made by the guys behind Sonic Mania and was designed from the ground up for momentum based platforming.
I know. I want to play that game too but I think Sonic Frontiers (while not for everyone) is shaping up to become a good future point for sonic.
I hope the next game keeps the spin dash without making it as overpowered as it is right now.
Maybe being able to reach the same speeds but requiring slopes to build up speed or charging the spindash (the charging is now effectively useless since you reach pretty much the same speeds while running and spindashing).
It's fascinating hearing all of this. I'm not touching the game again until update 3 hits and by the sounds of it I'll basically be playing whole new ass game.
Honestly warms my heart to see Spindash return in Frontiers, and even allowing you to skip parts of platforming section like in the Classic/Adventure games. Going forward, I hope Frontiers 2 leans into this and has better physics and more level design/terrain that allows you to use the game physics to string together moves and speedrun platforming challenges. So more organic ramps, slopes, half pipes, etc. Plus could allow for better physics puzzles instead of the minigame puzzles found in game.
As it stands, Frontiers reminds me of a more combat focused Spyro the Dragon(Collect macguffins in an open zone using a combo of exploration, minigames, and platforming, sometimes do a flying/boost level). A strong emphasis on physics could make it more its own thing
Don’t like how you can’t unlock it until pretty much there’s nothing left to do in game besides new game+. It’s nice but seeing that makes it not worth it in the end
@@dreamsdeep1076 NGL i was so frustrated when i realized I had to unlock it. I was so scared it would not save with new game + I am happy it does
Still i don't like that u have to unlock it. But it's not the worst thing ever if you're max level
@@eliezersarcos7813rue but I don’t want to be overpowered in new game+ because the enemies are not any harder in that mode
@@dreamsdeep1076 Just go extreme new game plus then change to hard mode and boom back to all level 1 stats with all your abilities.
@@dave9515 yeah one hit mode. No thanks
The only missing piece is that there’s no slope influence when he’s running, if they add that in and completely got rid of the Boost
We’d have a great game on our hands
Why get rid of the boost tho? It workd great in frontiers
Typical adventure fan.
A sonic Frontiers in almost perfect remove the squid remove Wyvern flying around in the open world remove the fortress
11/10
4:57 the boost itself is a dash pannel tho
somewhat nonsensical statement
SA1 you can repeatedly press spin dash to keep yourself moving XD
@@dreamsdeep1076 that's broken but I loved it so much while I playin' it
Would've loved to see how the "Sonic doesn't need momentum" crowd reacted the first time they launched off a steep incline with a well placed spin-dash
0:48 "got my toes twizzling" is crazy bruh
The momentum isn't perfect, but this is what the Open Zone formula should be. One problem with it is that Sonic comes to a complete stop after when he lands back on the ground after being in the air. The momentum based level design is something that needs to be expanded upon because I think it'll remind everyone that momentum used to be a primary element of Sonic's moveset and gameplay. I'm a bit worried about the removal of Dash Panels because they were still present in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 to keep you on the run, and nobody really had issues with them in those games. I really enjoyed this Update and it kicked the game straight into the A tier for me which just feels unreal. And one more thing,
Sonic CD is goated! ;)
CD was pretty good but not the best lol. Better than Sonic 1
@@dreamsdeep1076 Ik. I honestly like it as much as Sonic 2.
@@CSTH1I mean they are good games. CD is a better experience when going after the robot generators to get the most out of CD’s vertical level design. Without that CD at least to me feels very unfulfilling as Sonic game. The game was deign with that in mind. Keeping 50 rings before goal 🥅 is to cater the Sonic 1 crowd
@@dreamsdeep1076 I go for both the Generators and Time Stones.
@@CSTH1it’s impossible to get all time stones and all robot generators before completing the game. When I collected all 6 time stones. Future stages when traveled to past are already destroyed before player imput
Can Sega do it? Probably not
Can Sonic Team do it?Hell Yeah
Sonic Team just cracked the code (finally) they just need to integrate momentum base challenges in the main map and we are golden
How do u use the spindash? I couldn’t figure it out
Kind of a hot take on my part, but alas…
While I’m glad SEGA and Sonic Team were willing to bring back momentum, let’s not get too caught up in the hype.
All the various puzzles and Coco challenges Matt talked about in this video?
Those aren’t necessarily an example of how momentum can be properly utilized in a Sonic game…they’re more an example of what happens when the devs actually let the players experiment with the tools given to them, instead of constantly forcing them to take the route predetermined by the devs themselves.
And the fact that it works so well with Sonic’s momentum-based physics (which, if we’re being honest with ourselves here, is literally just the most basic implementation of game engine physics in general) is more a really cool bonus.
All this is to say that even if SEGA and Sonic Team didn’t end up using momentum-based physics as the kingpin behind future Sonic games’ level design, I’d probably be fine with it; What truly matters is that Sonic Team and their devs learn from this game how to make better levels that not only work with Sonic’s general handling and controls, but also give the players enough wiggle room to experiment with Sonic and challenge themselves to find new ways to speedrun the levels.
Like Frontiers, it just needs more polish
if they want It ... yeah, Exploration has never been more fun
like wow GG to Sonic Team
Love how on twitter you said you dislike this game because it’s not encouraging skill and whatnot and how it needs to be challenging to be consider a good.
It needs to be Engaging. Riding Rails and doing your Millionth Homing attack Chain doesn’t make a Good Sonic Game.
@@Terminal_Apotosit was very fun and entertaining to me. The open zone is a giant playground and with momentum physics on slider it makes the experience even better. This game is my third favorite Sonic game after SA1 and SA2
The spindash looks fun but the unlock requirments are absolutely ridiculous.
Something that was once part of sonics default moveset shouldn't feel like a 100% bonus like greenhill zone in adventure 2
It’s not that hard
@@O.H306 its still annoying since every single challenge is the exact same thing and its makes getting the spindash annoying and not fun in my opinion
Frontiers is going to become the Colors of the next generation of Sonic. Loved during its first years of release, but hated by many Sonic fans years later. Mark my words.
I wouldn’t say so because update 3 exists and may change the game more so I wouldn’t count on that. Can see frontiers being the Sonic heroes when it comes to reception years later
with each recent video, i'm noticing that you're slowly reaching your villain arc.
What do you mean by that?
@@Matthasnocuts It might just be me but I just get this very subtle hint of jadedness in you from your more recent stuff. I was thinking it could have been all of the constant insanity that is sonic twitter and general discourse wearing on you but again, it could just be me imagining things. Hope you're doing alright though.
I'd say I'm exhausted that Sonic games are still not reaching it's fullest potential despite it seeming so obvious of what SEGA and Sonic Team should do. I'm hoping that changes with the next game. Sonic's always so close but he never crosses the finish line.
Overall I'm far from getting tired of Sonic. I may not play the games as much in my free time anymore but I still love discussions in regards to this franchise because there's no other game franchise that can be analyzed like this one.
I might be a bit more jaded since I'm coming to terms that we're probably going to have to wait another four years to get another shot at a 3D Sonic game. I'm going to stay a fan though. Thanks for watching my content enough to be able to pick up on such a subtle detail. I appreciate you always coming back!
@@Matthasnocuts Yeah, that's definitely understandable. It really is amazing how far sonic team's been at this series for so long now and they still either do the bare minimum or somehow mess even that up. It's probably a sentiment most fans would agree on. I'm glad to know you've still got the passion burning in you for this franchise and fandom though. It's not easy for everyone. I'll always look forward to seeing your honest thoughts on the latest news or games that may come in the future though. Good luck out there man.
I gotta go ahead and purchase both SA1 and SA2. Still debating on if I should upgrade SA2 to the DX version.?🤔
I’m fine with momentum in the next sonic game, but I want sega to bring the game setting system into the next sonic game too, so players can edit their controls to their liking
the sonic adventure remake is just begging to happen at this point
SA1 and SA2 together preferably. Both are fantastic games and replay them so many times.
The sonic frontiers momentum is definitely amazing in my opinion. I definitely think that sonic frontiers was definitely close to the sonic adventure momentum. I definitely want to see a open zone sonic game with a lot of momentum. I don’t think that SEGA can do a game with a lot of momentum. I definitely want SEGA to do more sonic frontiers momentum. SEGA should definitely keep the boost and spindash in the next sonic game. The next sonic game is sonic superstars and I don’t think that sonic superstars has momentum. I definitely want to see more sonic momentum games in the future. I definitely enjoy update 2 for sonic frontiers with momentum.
Sonic CD is goated.
Take a shot every time "momentum" is being mentioned when discussing sonic games 😵💫🥴🤢🤮🤪
I was waiting for this
Ever since I unlocked the Spin Dash I only used it once and never since them since its not like Adventure 1 but Update 2 made Sonic Frontiers from a B Tier Game to an A Tier Game but when the next Sonic Game comes out they better make the Spin Dash accurately like SA1 including Spam Dash
This guy is one of my favorite RUclipsrs
Stuff like this makes my day man. Thanks!
I want less, longer and more rewarding platforming in the next game
It was good enough in frontiers. Have you collect every single memory token in game? Was left sasitfied with the amount of platforming
I mean I disagree with the level design being bad given that the game was not designed around deceleration and the spin dash. As you said, but it’s odd to use that as even a fair comparison
Hey, Matthew! Id be curious to hear your thoughts on the best finales of Sonic games!
I just want a sonic unleashed pc port :(
Nah unleash project exists
Bro Matt give us a sonic schoolhouse vid man the orange mario is begging
Sonic just feel like Sonic without that Momentum.
I hope SonicSuperstars has momentum as its gonna be a top 5 best 2D Sonic game👍👍
0:04 fin.
With each update, Frontiers is becoming more and more like what it should have been at launch.
I find it quite weird how you're saying "we" in regards to loving the m word, yet I never cared about that in the 1st place. Though you could probably chalk that up to me not liking Classic Sonic in general considering how often it's spoken about in those games.
This game doesn't have complete momentum but just enough to make people more satisfied with the game and make it little bit more like the sonic adventure games
Personally, what I didn't like about the spindash is that it is basically a boost 2, specially if you look at the physics files you see that the spindash always starts with 65 speed, even if you had like 3 xd. I'd like to see the spindash maintaining your speed so it doesn't feel like free speed, just as the boost.
thats the best way to make it coexist with boost
Relax. The Frontiers is just the Sonic Team testing ground and it's setting up a new formula. Just take a look, the open world (not levels) in the game looks like a bunch of objects were thrown into the default world of the game engine (with some elaboration of the environment). Keep doing feedback. Next really thoughtful with his own specific vision and style Sonic game has been in development for a long time. It's too obvious.
I agree mostly, but I feel as if dash panels do have their use. Especially since Sonic's supposed to be a children's game, and kids might not be able to figure out they need to use momentum to make a jump. There's probably a compromise to made via difficulty selection though.
Momentum was also in frontiers before update 2 it's just a lot smaller almost minuscule amounts and the speed cap when you're not boosting kinda ruined it lmao
Well it looks my game is broken cuz I dont got no momentum, or maybe its a setting?
Yep in short, momentum isnt even close to being everything about the beloved formula that is the adventure one. The level design was, and that's one of the biggest weak point about frontier and those hill running simulator.
Hopefully we will get another game based around momentum, platforming AND exploration + some other gameplay ( playing with other character like sonic's friend for instance).
Because yes, treasure hunting, mech stage, chao garden & karting were fun for most of the casual who played the adventure games, not everything has to be sonic running around hills, it is boring for most of the people, by that i mean thats its boring for the non "hardcore sonic fan", would be cool for them and for me to finally have a new sonic game targeting us.
Hopefully the next open zone Sonic game is more Sonic like than frontiers.
Unpopular opinion: the islands themes are trash. Except for Ares Island. That island out of all of them felt like a Sonic world.
Momentum IS Sonic my guy
Thank you
Thanks king
Anyone want a new Titan boss complete with its own new metal core song in DLC3?
take a shot everytime he says momentum
I believe in Sega for now they make persona so they can make good games
0:52 evey sonic game is not complete without momentum.
With the update, I feel like the islands feel a little too restrictive and flat.
I think I'm starting to see why some people see the m word as a swear word to the point it's actually referred to as the m word.
The fact people are constantly hyping up the "spindash" without criticising the one fatal flaw with it likely means we won't get those slope physics. The problem is It's not a spindash. I don't care if it's fun because that's not my point. You hold down LT and get constant speed. It's the same as the boost and therefore cannot use those slope physics people want. "but you can fly arund the map with it." Ok well you could do the same with the forces boost.
The issue is that momentum is malleable speed where as the boost is a constant fixed speed.
The spindash in frontiers actually has those momentum physics everyone wants, go up hill and loose speed, go down hill and gain speed; however, you never notice it because the spindash functions like a boost and therfore you get constant speed overriding those physics paramters. If people don't point this out to the devs (which they aren't) then you're going to keep getting the same thing over and over again. If you enjoy that fine, but I would much rather have a game built fully around momentum. There's other issues with it but that's the main one.
Game good now
How do I turn on the momentum
You mean...The *M WORD!*
Rank sonic villans or sonic storys
Update 2 literally gave me all the things I wanted from this game on release. Everyone who defended this game at launch? Look me in the eyes - *look me DEAD IN THE EYES* - and tell me you'd rather have that version of the game over the one we currently have. LOOK ME IN MY EYES and say that if the game RELEASED in its current state that people would have complained (rightfully so) nearly as much as they did.
LIE TO MY FACE AND SAY that the improvements made in Update 2 are not things that SHOULD HAVE BEEN IN THE GAME DAY ONE.
Do it. I DARE you.
That being said, I'm very grateful that these thing are here - better late than never and all.
It's just. The state this game released in was honestly kind of a joke. Seriously, if Tears of the Kingdom had (somehow) dropped last year, this game would've been raked over the coals. Even now, there still isn't really much of a comparison: TOTK beats Frontiers to hell and back and it isn't even close. Though, to be fair, TOTK did have a clearer template to work off of - and it's not like the game doesn't have it's fair share of issues (believe me - this game's got glitches galore).
Personally don’t like TOTK and BOTW because I don’t like direction 3D Zelda is heading. They are barley Zelda games and I don’t like them
@@dreamsdeep1076 I mean. Fair enough. Even though I do have my praises for both games (and actually prefer the current direction over previous 3D Zelda games overall (not by much, but still)), they've definitely got issues.
Like. A lot.
Can we have a more fair argument I don't want to play Dark Souls
You sound very ungrateful to sonicteam for being passionate and even working on adressing fan criticisms. Game was fine day one but update 2 has elevated it. You should really shut up if you have nothing positive to say like this should have been there day one knowing how bad sega was before frontiers release going as far as almost firing Izuka for asking for more time on the game. Its clear they got the message sonic games need more time and budget after frontiers and gave the okay for these dlc updates after seeing the great sales numbers. Also BOTW and TOTK suck and are made by an adhd director that doesn't understand zelda series at all. We don't get adventures anymore or companions or dungeons or compelling NPC's and the one great NPC Kass got removed in TOTK. We don't even get great stories to experience anymore. Everything that was good about zelda is dead and gone and the devs recently said they have no interest in revisiting the old formula at all so 2d zelda is dead and all we get are tehse garbage open worlds now. Zelda devs only see the series as a brand not a franchise and have made this clear recently while Sonicteam sees sonic as a franchise and brand which makes sonicteam far better cause no matter what happens they care greatly for their fans. Sonic frontiers release state was fine and not as bad as you claim. If any release state was a joke it was TOTK. 6 years to greatly improve the open world formula without having to worry about new assets much or designing a new overworld and they release one of the worse products in gaming but yall that like it ate it up cause its zelda but if another company did this it would be thrown into the fiery pits of hell and people would bash it for a decade at least.
@@unstronzo3517Oh yeah sure. What did you wanna talk about?
based matt
honestly Im in the camp that Momentum should never have been abandond as Sonics Core gameplay, and update 2 is fun with everything unlocked but unlocking the spindash(at least on console) is way too fucking annoying and drawn out, the fact you have to get to the final island before you can even have a chance at the spindash is an idea someone needs a massive pay cut over for thinking it was ok and someone else also taking a pay cut for giving the OK on the idea.
This past year has made me hate the word momentum
Most sonic fans don't even know what the word momentum means
all that and matt still hates heroes smh
Spin dash and momentum is great and all. But I do hope it gets nerfed a little In the next game. It's a little too powerful.
Day 246 of asking for a sonics schoolhouse video
With a few more tweaks (nerf the roll, collision fixes) this would be a great framework to remake Unleashed
To me, Sonic Frontiers is Hard.
Day 250 of asking for a sonics schoolhouse video
Yuh
Day 247 of asking for a sonics schoolhouse video
Day 94 asking for a Sonic Shuffle video
0:17 - 0:21 lol 9/11
Day 93 asking for a Sonic Shuffle video
@sega
The amount of times they reuse lvls and these new islands are the most bland boring areas ever please make old lvls open zoned