Generator Runs But Low Voltage
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- I picked up this Coleman Powermate generator from Facebook Marketplace. It was advertised that the engines runs, but no power output. Lets troubleshoot and if possible fix the issue.
Voltage Regulator Board Repair: • Generac/Pramac/Powerma...
I sent the bad regulator to Gary (aka @Bassguitarist1985). He is well known on RUclips and Smokestak as the go to guy for generator repair. He has lots of videos on his channel on small engine, generator and circuit board repair.
Out of Circuit Capacitor Test: • Out of Circuit Capacit...
Check him out:
@Bassguitarist1985 / @bassguitarist1985
Smokestak www.smokstak.com/
Generator Model: PM0435004
Engine Model: Subaru EX300DS52107503
I use Harbor Freight Super Heavy Duty Degreaser in my ultrasonic cleaner.
Visit My Amazon Store:
www.amazon.com...
Bridge Rectifier: www.ebay.com/i...
Brushes: amzn.to/3vru2l0
Kill-A-Watt: amzn.to/3jSbBRf
Multimeter: amzn.to/3vx4HGj
Test Tank: amzn.to/3rDFngG
0063525, 0063525SRV, Bridge Rectifier, Brushes, Coleman Powermate, Coleman, EX30, Fixed, Generator, High Resistance, Low Voltage, No Power, PM0435004, Powermate, Regulator Board, Slip Rings, Small Engine, Subaru, Troubleshooting, Voltage,
Voltage Regulator Board Repair: ruclips.net/video/PeBH1bZFBpc/видео.html
Out of Circuit Capacitor Test: ruclips.net/video/mopYKXrDz_4/видео.html
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@@JOHNDANIEL1 always a good idea when storing an engine. I enjoy watching your your videos. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
Those are some great finds. Built to a much higher standard. Don’t come across much of that stuff around here.
great video learned a lot, thanks, my Powermate 4600 puts 125AC power on 1 leg not the other, any ideas
I have a 2yro predator 9000 portable generator. Do you have any idea what the THD% is as it is not listed in my manual.
They are long videos but never ever boring. The narration is meaningful and informative and not just self centred blablabla like so many others do it. The camera work, editing and lighting is clear, logical and easy to watch. Well done James, I hope you find the energy to make us many more, thank you!
You must be in an area where generators are commonly used and then neglected and sold for little money.
Deals like that are not the case where I live in New Zealand. 😢.
Outages are rare, but when they happen it is usually a result of a hurricane and power can be out for weeks. Most have generators in the unlikely event of a big storm. Unfortunately a lot of people who buy them would normally not have or maintain a small engine and as a result they are not cared for properly.
The unmitigated AMOUNT of information that is divulged here for all of the world to see and learn from is unmeasurable. Thank you James!
When you measured the second cap, the response looked normal for a capacitor that is larger than the meter can measure. So I checked the specs on the MM400 DMM and the capacitance maxes out at 200 uF. That's pretty low but it's a relatively inexpensive meter. My Fluke DMM can measure up to 10,000 uF. Dedicated capacitor checkers can go higher, of course.
Good catch. Never thought it would be limited to 200uf. Might be time to upgrade.
@@jcondon1 Please note as an electronics tech fixing power supplies for more years than I care to count electrolytics do not test well as to capacitance on that sort of meter. They can read perfect but have been overheated and their ESR is high introducing ripple. First clue is the plastic on the case shrinks, second clue is the top swells, but if doing much work on electrolytics get an ESR meter.
@@jcondon1 Fluke. They're expensive but mine has been in operation since the 80s.
Any particular reason not to check the cap using resistance mode on the DMM? Just as a quick & dirty "does it capacitate" test, of course.
Fantastic troubleshooting with the meter! I had a similar issue with an old briggs generator from 1982 - once I cleaned the slip rings, it made all the difference. A pencil eraser works well for cleaning the slip rings, too. Sometime you can even get lucky and slide the pencil in and spin over the rotor, without taking everything apart. well done!
Excellent job Sir !
Now that you corrected the Electrical side, consider this.
If you noticed at the very end, with the Electrical corrections made, the Engine speed failed to increase properly with additional loads put on the generator. Evidence is when you started to disconnect the heaters, engine speed increased. You might want to try repositioning Governor Springs, which may possibly correct this, Right now, spring resistance is a small touch to heavy. If all else fails, determine at what wattage load the unit will most like be running at, and adjust governor speed to match that need. Never have a over concern for voltage or hertz, when there is no load on the unit, that is, with in reason.
I have a 2004 Powermate 5500. I take good care of it and it's strictly a hurricane as needed generator. Like 100 hours run time in all these years. Nice to one on your channel. Your videos are so satisfying. I hate to junk things that can be fixed. Thanks.
I knew it was something simple but the bridge rectifier through me off a little until I saw the bulge in the capacitor. Good going James. Thank you for sharing your video and knowledge with us. Ed
Hi, James, Seems like people don't want to do basic maintenance these days. Lucky for you sometimes. Thanks for sharing! Stay healthy!
That`s how we get free stuff!
Nice find!! As soon as I saw that capacitor, I knew it was faulty. The capacitor is available on it's own, as are the diodes.
DPE, for those that don't know, it's means displaced phase excitation. It's a separate winding of a portable power generator of the household type.
what I concluded from this video, in case there is a voltage drop with/without load at output , first check the AVR or in this case the voltage rectifier board. Thank you for uploading the video with proper diagnosing ad rectifying the problem.
I have been bingeing your videos the past few days! I fixed one mower and find myself pretending to be a small engine repairman lol! Love your content!
Incredible diagnostics, details and patience. I am very honoured to have found you, James. You are incredible. Great work as always. Love and blessings from Ontario Canada!
Thanks
So it's safe to say that the capacitor had reached it's full capacity and didn't have the capacity to continue ! Nicely done, yet again, James.
Thank you for the shout out James! Glad to be of assistance on the bridge rectifier assembly repair! Awesome repair video yourself! It lives again! lol!
Thanks for your help! You did a great job fixing those boards.
Keep up the great work. I have learned so much by watching your diagnosis/repair videos.
Always look forward to your new videos
As much as I typically dislike PowerMate equipment, I do really like that slip ring design. So much more convenient to touch up and less chance of breaking a fragile wire.
It definitely unique.
Hi there! Clif B. If I am not mistaken PowerMate has a black and white wire for each winding in the stator? so one winding would have a black wire and a white wire,
possibly a black tied to a white for a neutral for the 120/240 volts socket?
James I have a similar generator (Husky HU40500A w/Subaru Robin Engine). The engine (beautiful engine) is quiet and runs good, but not making power. Found the problem to be the "End Bell" circuit card assembly with capacitor and diodes, etc. It vibrates like a tuning fork AND gets quite hot! The capacitor on that circuit board inside the bell housing had it's electrolitic solution evaporated by the combination of vibration and heat! When I removed the 470uf 200v capacitor from the PCBA I quickly noted that when you shook it it rattled like a baby's rattle toy. The physical elements inside it had come loose! I am now replacing the capacitor with a new one, BUT, I am moving it to another location in an open area behind and onto the control panel onto a "foam" mount which I will make. I will connect it to the bell housing circuit board "solder traces" for the capacitor with 2 amp rated wiring from the capacitor to the circuit board in the end bell housing. This will alleviate the issue of heat and vibration having such a detrimental affect on the capacitor over time. wayne.
Nice one.
One thing struck me. The black gunge on the rectifier looked like brush material. This would be conductive and could also have affected it. But certainly looks as if it was the capacitor this time.
In case others are not aware, the capacitor fault is typical for a rectified output. The capacity raises the voltage of the rectified output when it smooths the output. So a failed capacitor causes a less smooth lower output. The small bulge and possible hole in the center of the capacitor are sure signs that the electolytic capacitor has failed.
Thanks! I learned some good testing procedures for generators today. I usually avoid them for lack of experience but now I am going to look for one to use as a test subject.
After watching your videos, I took a chance today and picked up a very similar power mate generator for $300. Only real difference is mine has a 13hp Honda engine. It has low power of 97 volts on each leg.
At least this one was an easy fix, just needed a new rectifier, nice work James!
Great video! .....I have a suggestion for spark plug cleaning.... I have found that using a propane torch to heat and burn off the deposits works very well to clean a dirty spark plug. get it bright red hot. You can also reinstall it while still hot to enhance starting. On the other hand, using a wire wheel can leave conductive metal streaks on the insulator, potentially causing misfire.
Yes, your video has help me with my Coleman Powermaster 5000-watt unit. I'll have to take the unit apart to do some internal checks and cleaning. Thanks for the view...
In those cases where that filter capacitor is bad you will be able to measure AC across the brushes. I don't know what the normal ripple is but you can check on a good running generator to get the standard. Thanks James!
Excellent video Jim as always. Do yourself a favor, take that muffler off a clean and paint it. If it rots out, you can’t get a new one. They are unavailable
As always, a fine job. What it is, what it does, what it should do and why it does it, then how to fix it. Don't know what more anyone could expect for free. LOL Thank you very much. James, if you're not a teacher, you missed your calling!
He is teaching all of you as he has done me today once again, flawlessly.
you are correct. id say, anyone that liked this video, give it a thumbs up so youtube can recommend it to more people. idk how much money is in it, but it cant hurt.. thanks for the knowledge james!
Bulging electrolytic capacitors are a big red light. It needs replacing every time. I followed you over to Bass Guitarist to see him repair the boards. I am now a subscriber.
Great find James. Many thanks.
As always you have the golden touch. Just need to find an electronic store and replace copasserter and you have a good spear part.
If you can't find one message the specs and I'll see if I can get one from the electronic store here in town has a pretty good supply of part they are my go to store for electronic stuff.
Michael.
I had a friend and fellow RUclipsr fix it up ruclips.net/video/PeBH1bZFBpc/видео.html
When voltage is sagging and you see a bulging cap, the ESR will be up usually and capacity down and in certain times you can get away with it, but this is high output ect. and of course one of the diodes could be leaking off slightly too and the MM may not pick it up with small voltage injection. So swapping them out when all else seems good is smart and just saves time. Old parts under heavy loads and heat HAVE to drop their fresh numbers so worth replacing if you keep and going to use under high wattage's. Service first and never have to do again...
Hey James..you come up with some of the best deals I've ever seen..i know with every video you post something is going to be fixed..you are very thorough in diagnosing these generators..i always look forward to your videos..till then see you on the next one Cheers friend 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
They cannot all be fixed. This one was listed for over a month. Nobody wanted to touch it. I finally gave in and bought it expecting to harvest the engine and other good parts. Glad it was an easy fix.
if you replace that cap, pay attention to the temperature rating. use nichicon 105°C caps if possible.
Brilliant James as always ,always learning from you on the electronic side of the generator’s
James;.. the tall capacitor - remove it from the circuit board , lay it on its side and extend the leads, fix on the board with silicone adhesive and try it !
you can get a 120 VAC to 14 VDC adapter and put it inside the control panel add a few wires and use it to charge the battery...!
Great video. If you have an electronic supply store near you, they should have the capacitor, if not online.
I looked for the 'improved' after market rectifier board on ebay. It was there. The improvement consists of replacing the pairs of 1A diodes with four single 3A diodes. You might think that a pair of paralleled diodes would take twice the current of a single one. Its not really true. The diodes, even from the same batch, will have slightly different forward voltage drop. The one with the lower voltage drop will draw more ciurrent than the other one. Using them like this is not good practice. I reckon that you would need to derate them to stay safe. So I would not use them in a circuit requiring more than 1.5 A. Even then I would not do it. The 3A diode version is definitely an improvement.
@James Condon So you saw that to Terry! In the days of germanium before high-current silicon diodes, this arrangement wasn't unusual as a practical way to raise capacity but it has the flaw and limitations you state. Today (and even when this generator was made) it's a no-no and it would have been cheaper and easier to use single diodes which makes me wonder why they did this? It doesn't make sense to me at all. I normally say "follow the engineers who designed it" but sometimes they get it wrong. I also knew the cap was bad at first glance- the end is swelled and we know what that means! Will talk more about that in my own reply.
@@P_RO_ Bulging capacitors is a big red flag.
I have a similar PM generator that quit producing electricity. Thanks to you I was able to get it “working”. Now it is putting out 110 volts. I have ordered a new set of brushes and a rectifier. Hopefully the rectifier I ordered is correct. Thanks again!! I thought I would be buying a new generator.
What is the verdict?
While I do not understand all the electrical testing you do maybe after watching more I will get some of the process behind the testing. Not your fault but my lack of electrical knowledge. You diagnosed the problem and repaired it to make a great generator. Thanks for the video.
and just like my inverters i count there rated output to be around the plus side of half the rated output for surge when running large startup loads..good work!
4.21.22 Thanks for the video James. I am now going to watch the repair of the regulator board.
Why run a wire to the starter positive that does nothing, I was thinking it fed another coil as feedback from the charge circuit for voltage regulation, being that it has no AVR. But the engine RPM controls the voltage and the manufacturer knew it wouldn't fall to far if it that RPM was maintained. Cheaper than an AVR and you can replace those capacitors yourself pretty cheap, but use a soldering gun not a pencil iron, something around a hundred watts, and the diodes in parallel doubles the current rating. So if it's a 200v 10amp diode,it will still be 200v , but the current capability will be 20amps instead of 10. Great video James.
Great job again James ! The caps & regulators are a common issue . Nice work solving the problem .. ENJOYED
Just solder a new capacitor on that old board. Cheap fix for sure. Another gennie rescued!
Good job as always. The capacitor can be replaced. Thanks.
great find James!
Great problem solving skills Great video thanks
Great job, hope I can remember this tip if I run into this issue. Thanks James!
When testing large uF caps it does take time to charge and test. Make sure your batteries are fresh in your DVM. This makes a difference on the charging time. Also, take the cap out of circuit.
Just tested the cap out of circuit. Should be 470uf. It tested at 50nf...
@@jcondon1 everytime when electrolytic capacitor has hole in head scoring and you see discoloration around that hole, then cap is dry and faulty
Nice find on Facebook. Your meticulous diagnosis has saved another genarator. Great job also another great video. 👏👏❤🇨🇦
Thanks Ray
Depending on your meter but often you can measure the AC ripple by putting your meter on AC. The bad cap was probably causing high ripple and a lower DC reading. Measuring both the DC and AC voltage across the brushes should pick this up easily.
I should have broken out the oscilloscope.
@@jcondon1 that will work
Good video. I fixed TV's for a while until my eyes went bad. I seen the Cap. was about to go bad . That always seems to be the weak point.
Great video James. Another great save .
Supporting comment.
For the algorithm.
I envy your knowledge and diagnostic methods - and the fact that you torque practically every bolt ........ EXCEPT the spark plug. It seems to me to be as important if not more than a lot of the accessory bolts. Why? I've got to know. Thanks
I only turn the plug until snug. They do not need to be very tight.
Super nice! Thank-you!
Excellent detective work James. Thanks for sharing
And here I am again, wondering just how many space heaters a fella might have.... Well done again, sir!
At least 7 or 8. A fella cannot be too warm. It’s cold out there.
Great result James thanks for sharing 🦘👍
Another lovely video - thank you
Some elbow grease and a 5 buck component restored to normal use. I don't think you spent any morre than that, by the time you have a replacement capacitor in the spare rectifier. Oil yes, but skill is what got that going :) Thanks :)
My highest recommendation to anyone working with electronics is get yourself an ESR meter. Next when you get one fit 2 diodes between the probes. two big p0wer diodes , one east west the other west east across the probes. The meter will never bias them on so you are protecting the meter from a charged capacitor you forgot to discharge. What it tests. Shorted windings on coils and the resistance of capacitors to an RF signal, This without taking the component out of circuit. Sure it takes a bit of practice but once you understand it It becomes the reach for tool. I fixed hundreds of products without circuits by looking for and finding high ESR caps.
Would be nice if you mentioned the type of oil used . that being said this is a very helpful video for someone just stating out troubleshooting small generator . Keep up the good work. Thank you .
I always use 10w-30 synthetic. But the oil used depends on your climate.
Another good fix.
A quick easy way to test capacitors in circuit is to play music through them. Run one line from the output of a walkman or phone or something directly to the speaker and run the other line through the capacitor with test leads or something. This works REALLY well. If you don't have an in-circuit ESR meter, this is the next best thing. You can also buy an in-circuit ESR tester like the capacitor wizard.
Thanks for the vid James.
If you did not have one of these boards then the whole thing could be replaced with just a square cross section type four terminal 6A bridge rectifier and a separate capacitor. You can mount the bridge on a panel with one screw and fasten the electrolytic with a clamp or even a cable tie. The rectifier would be less than $5 and the capacitor something like $15. The connecting wires cost about nothing. A good deal less expensive than buying even an after market board.
Impressive video as you went deep into this one and won..Im going to save this one
As soon as you wrote the light was flickering I was thinking to my self where's the oscilloscope. You see this same thing in cars as the dome light flickers, your bridge rectifier is bad.
I should have pulled it out. I also forgot to turn the light back on after installing the good board to see if the flicker was gone.
FYI that Klein MM400 that you have, I have it also. It stopped reading voltage after a few light uses around the house. Continuity and Hz work just fine. Just something to keep in mind.
My batteries leaked onto the board and thru a hole to the back side. I cleaned it and brought mine back.
I don't use this one too much. The display is hard to read on camera. I bought it for the capacitance and hertz functions. But as someone pointed out in the comments it is limited to 200uf and I was trying to measure a 470ig cap. Might need to upgrade.
Another win... Great diags - James!
Thanks. I think this is what's wrong with mine. I've got the same generator. I talked to you about it in the comments on another video a while back. I need to get one of those gauges though, the kill a watt.
good job dude. thanks and cheers
What a deal! It had $20 in gas in it!
The diodes in series could be for a higher voltage handling. It is cheaper to use multiple diodes in series rather than using 1 diode for the high voltage. It also could be for redundancy. Although I can't see why they would want redundant diodes on this type of genset. The capacitor is suspect due to the swollen look and it does look like it has blown. Great job troubleshooting and keep up the excellent vids.
Thanks
You can replace the capacitor for around $10.00. They have the low profile ones on amazon.
There is a video a friend made showing the repair ruclips.net/video/PeBH1bZFBpc/видео.html
@@jcondon1 I watched his video after you suggested it. Yeah! it is my understanding that the value of capacitance is what determines the voltage output. Both great educational videos. Thanks
The wind is not your fault lol. GREAT Video
Great stuff, I enjoy your videos, would be great to do a video showing in basic terms how it all works , I mean the power head side of things , perhaps demonstrate the basics and explain the terminology, Just a suggestion for future videos. Like what is the difference between inverter generator and a normal (big ) generator, what is ohms, also how we could look out for faults when buying a used generator, just an idea.
I’m learning new stuff every time I watch an episode so keep up the great work including the way you put the videos together 👍
Fascinating! I wonder what the issue the previous owner was having?
Great fix Maestro👍👍👍👍
Thanks 👍
nice save, it had me on that one .
As you do so many gen sets, why don't you make yourself a load bank, ie: 3 to 5 heating elements from an elecy oven one fan a few switches to load up the gen bit by bit. you could even add a volt meter and an amp meter. easy task for you.
It would be helpful if you could do a white board drawing of the circuits you test with the meter and why.
That is a great idea. Wish I had thought of it.
Doc., very good power side diagnosis video, appreciate it.
Nice troubleshooting! Enjoy your steady "process" style. Curious if you have a personal generator? I'm guessing the NE where they do get used OFTEN!
Yes in NE. My personal generator is an Honda EU6500. ruclips.net/video/UmSx8MlQU7E/видео.html
Just a new cap and done.
I am not knocking you but,, any capacitor that has a higher voltage and capacitance would have worked in this rectifier,, even if it was to big to fit on the board,, you could still have ""hot wired"" the cap inside/outside the case,, just to test the rectifier will work first,, and any bigger and higher amp diodes would also have worked,, with far less stress put on the rectifier when under full load's!,, plus buying a bigger capacitor and stronger diodes would be far cheaper than fitting a new board!,, however you do make great videos that are very interesting and informative,,
The second board you tested read off limits which means it has capacitance.
The working voltage for the capacitor should be raised. The capacitor could be reaching 164.07 volts because the rectifier is rectifying the peaks and peak is 1.414 of RMS. Plus any spikes that may be present this I think is the real cause of the capacitor bulging and venting.It possibly could be constantly working too close to the maximum of 200 volts. I see this problem a lot when I service british manufactured electronic equipment and vintage radios. High voltage capacitors tend to show increased value prior to their failure.
You often seem to overfill the oil taking it right up to pouring out the fill port.
You could add a ton more caps in series to get a better dc wave
Looks like they just doubled up on the diodes possibly to make them more resilient and handle the load better
Great video - thanx
Enjoyed the video! Nice work!
Love watchin' yer vdo's as yer work on the generator side of things is jez so....like the sky man! Meaning over my head! 😁
I am glad to say the temperatures are getting up in 20c and very little rain in the U.K. I am happy with global warming especially with the record breaking temperatures we have had over the last few years
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Another great video. That swollen capacitor was a huge red flag I’m glad you caught it
I usually get all my capacitors and electronic equipment from Digi-Key they are fast delivery