Are UK Consumer Units Big Enough?
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
- In this video Rick and Gaz look at wiring and installing a Schneider Easy9 compact multi row consumer unit with a type 2 SPD, A type RCBOs and AFDD's.
Are larger consumer units the future as we all become prosumers..? These multi row consumer units give way more options for electrical expansion in the coming years.
👉 Configuration - Schneider Easy9 Compact Multi Row Consumer Unit • Why Schneider Electric...
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⏱TIME STAMPS ⏱
00:00 Installing a Schneider Easy 9 Compact Multi Row Consumer Unit
00:17 Holiday consumer unit
00:52 Knockouts
01:30 Sticky stuff
02:32 On the wall
02:50 Top row AFDDs
03:22 CPC's first
04:00 Connecting terminals
04:47 No neutral fly leads
05:00 No miss
05:14 What protection will an AFDD offer
06:10 Configuration options
06:27 Tails gland
06:59 Cover screws
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Have they ever been big enough? The most important piece of equipment in the house tucked away in some dark corner and no where near enough space for dressing in nicely and access …designed nicely to take chunks out of your hands
In Germany in flats the units must have at least 4 rows (each 12 units wide). In single room units a 3 row (12 units wide) is also permitted. One unit is the width of a single MCB. It's to future proof the unit itself, so you can later add additional RCBOs, circuits or other devices. This is not in the DIN VDE 0100, which is the German counterpart to the BS 7671, it's in the DIN 18015 (Electrical installations in domestic dwellings). That reg also gives you the numbers of required circuits, numbers of outlets installed in different rooms. I know that in the UK it's impossible to have socket outlets in the bathroom. According to DIN 18015 you must have 2 socket outlets in the bathroom, two lighting connections and a connection for a ventilation fan. That is the minimum requirement. The better standard is in RAL RG 678: 4 socket outlets, 3 lighting connections, 1 connection for the ventilation fan. Of course you need to care about the zones, you can't install them everywhere and you can't run the cables anywhere within the room.
The bus bars are quite nice, we have them several configurations made by different manufacturers but the way they work is always the same. The most classic one is the with three copper bars in it, for L1, L2 and L3. But now these days they come also with an additional neutral, and also in different configurations like L1, N, L2, N, L3, N, L1, N and so on for single phase circuit RCBOs. Other configuration could be L1, L2, L3, N, L1, L2, L3, N and so on for three phase RCBOs. Here we usually don't have that much three-phase circuits in domestic dwellings here, usually the cooker circuit, maybe an electric instant water heater and eventually an EV charger. The DNO regs state that single appliances with a demand of 4.6kVA or more must be connected three-phase.
The three-phase RCBOs are actually not that old, I remember when I installed my EV charger in 2017 they weren't available back then. So I had to install a three-phase MCB and in addition the RCD. Also a reason why our boards had to be bigger, because with the separate devices you require double the amount of space, compared to if you install RCBOs instead.
I've found that given the recent updates to 7671, a lot of consumer unit replacements I've been asked to do have required a dual row unit. Older houses with 2 rings, 2 lights and a cooker circuit can usually be accommodated by a single row, but if you have to include separate heating, car charging, a third ring for the kitchen etc... I do appreciate the extra space. I did have one job where I had to run multiple sub-main boards from the consumer unit, due to the cupboard with the incoming tails being so constrained. Added close to a grand to the job, luckily the customer was loaded and didn't care how much it cost.
The first time of using these boards we were using the 3 row ones, to do a split power and lighing board with afdds, type 2 surge and it had to have a breaker for the fire alarm panel off the live side of the incomer. We had to modify it to get and extra mod on the bottom din rail and punch the cover for the breaker to come through. We had to make up 28 of these boards.
I love Schneider gear, it’s so well thought out and they’re always ahead of the curve. In answer to the question no, consumer units aren’t big enough. I know there’s going to be situations where it’s inappropriate but in general we need to start using double stacks as standard..
Nice job. I left the UK and now work in NZ. It still amazes me how in the UK there's no earth insulation with the T&E cables. Here it's automatically insulated and there are meter marks on the cables. We also use square drive screws here, which are excellent because they can hold on the end of the screw driver by themselves. NZ is also starting to very slowly use AFDD's. Hardly anyone uses RCBO's, but I much prefer them. They do add up to more cost than RCD's and MCB's, even at the rate we use RCD's here, because NZ only allows three circuits on each RCD. Power circuits are all radials too and you are only allowed 4 outlets per circuit, so consumer units are getting bigger. Many new houses are using 3 row boards now. I hardly do domestic work, but I've been seeing them in a few new houses I've visited.
You can buy cable with the earth insulated. It just costs more and is bulkier.
of course the idea being that if some twonk chippy or DIY dave stuck a nail or screw through the cable then the device would disconnect and not kill said pillock
The earth in T&E not being sheathed is by design and not because of cost
@Chicken Stranger I definitely agree with all that. My last few jobs I have done with all RCBO's.
@@GrahamDIY Well I do remember years of using it as an outer sheath stripper. Mind you, the cables (TPS) we use in NZ has a manufactured weakness down the length, so you can easilly pull the outer sheath off with the insulated inner cables.
Very nice job. We have come a long way in the 50yrs that i have been in the trade. From an 8way Wylex, with an option of rewireble , cartridge fuse or mcb to this. All very good.
Massive thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻. Gaz
Wish we had breaker boxes (consumer units) like these in the US. Every brand has its own different system (Eaton, GE, Siemens, Square D).
Ok ok all well and good in a new build but try fitting one of those buggers under the stairs 🤣🤣🤣
Nice . You done a good nice tidy install there Rick. Great video guy’s as always 👍
I've always seen a consumer unit, as just box for mounting DIN-rail devices. That includes contactors; relays; timers power supplies, and other new fancy smart wifi-enabled stuff, coming in the pipeline. But British electricians believe it's only for circuit breakers. It seems that if it's not a circuit breaker, it needs to go in its own adaptable box, with DIN-rail, for some reason??
Yup, the fusebox double rows are amazing.
Starting spec’ing these 20 years ago. Or use 2 boards wired off Henley block. Good work guys as always.
In my experience UK consumer units generally aren't really big enough for all the devices a modern installation will require. However the tiny amount of space that is typically available to install the consumer unit into does rather constrain the size of CU that can be used.
And what devices o a modern installation require that you can't get in a 21 way DB or a 42way double stack?
And why is the space provided to install CUs so small?? Makes no sense.
@@GrahamDIY placement of the main electricity line
You are correct, as the electrical equipment manufacturers and regulatory body are constantly changing the regs and forcing sparks to fit more and more expensive equipment, we need bigger boards to put it all in. A good money maker! 🤦♂️
Would have loved to see you getting those tails in there. It’s my least favourite job in the board and I always draw blood at some point fitting those damn tails!
Exellent Video ONCE AGAIN
I'm finding two rows are no longer enough. I did four board swaps last year where where I went individual RCBO radial for every circuit, using 36 or 48 Mod Abb metal boards. Also included EV circuit (even if they don't need it yet) and Shelly 3x CT energy management system. It has to be said these clients could afford this upgrade.
Recommended should install
i've got a 12 way and it's not enough for the house when we rewired as there was no place to slot in the fire alarms
we are also having our extension done very very soon and it's been suggested that we have a 16 way version fitted, but i like the look of these double stacked ones so lets see what happens
as for the cables in the back, certainly not enough room at all as it's far too congested
Bought a new build 2 days before the first 2020 lockdown. Sadly the changes to allow building to continue meant I was unable to modify the installation to uprate it to a setup like this with SPD and AFDD and save the cost of the crappy meets the regs box that did get put in. Would make an emporia energy monitor much easier to fit.
I will be getting it changed someday.
Nice install plenty of room, notice no fire seal was used at cable entry points though :)
In the Netherlands we almost always have 3-row consumer units except if there is a space restriction or if we’re dealing with a sub-board
Love those easy 9 boards. Looks a cracking job Rick, the only question I have is why a pair of big holes that you'll need to fill with F/S. I've started to copy a green horn out of college and only made the hole I need. I do like to see a big hole when adding a new circuit but the sealant looks terrible. Great video to start the year. I use silicone to seal my grommet strip 👍
Great idea with the silicone Adrian 👍🏻
Can I ask if it's ok to use OSB as backing board ?? I thought it had to be fireproof or fire resistant ?? Thanks v much for another great vid
A no that size will be fine under the stairs say, bar the fire risk of course. However in a entrance hall where many boxes are sited would you have space?
You guys use arc fault/ground fault breakers? Whole house surge protectors?
Schneider is a French company. France, Germany, Swiss at least, have *Double Pole,* RCBO, MCB, etc. No single pole. They are ahead of the UK in that. Because of this they can have dual L & N busbars (comb), so no screwed connection N busbar in the unit causing needless cable clutter in the unit. This one is a hybrid of UK and French.
The French have one Earth busbar inside the unit, no others. The convention in France is the input at the top and out at the bottom of RCBOs, MCBs, etc. The reverse of here. The AFDDs look like French stock, or derivatives of it, hence the dual busbar (comb) at the top. The dual busbar is neat.
Legrand's main panels have a vertical busbar at the side linking the multiple DIN rails. Can be three or four of them. The bottom DIN rails may have timers and lighting equipment.
The main panels (consumer units) are plastic but inside a metal cabinet which is usually inset into the wall. There are regs (Norms in France) on the height of the panel for user access. Hence they tend to be in halls at the correct height. No crawling under stairs or at ceiling height in a downstairs toilet. The bottom part these days may have a Modem or other TV equipment. So all in one nice smart cupboard. They run cable to the main panel in corrugated plastic conduit. Rarely see T&E type of cable.
Schneider need to import their full top input DP MCBs, RCBOs, etc. Complete with L & N busbars (comb).
Very neat. The French are way ahead.
Artisan Electric on RUclips feature a French main panel in Paris. Worth watching.
Any links to their designs ? Really, typical UK stuff is crap, archaic rubbish. External bus bars need binned, din rail needs binned. All devices as you say should be double pole. And all devices should simply plug in, so that they can also be easily and quickly replaced. No wire terminations at the protective device. Wire terminations should be made on a sub board, fixed.
So any future device changes simply unplug and new one plugs in. Perhaps less applicable to domestic stuff, but in commercial, existing designs are just a pain.
@@blow0me
Do a RUclips search on:
_Introducing the Easy9 Multirow Compact Consumer Unit and AFDD | Schneider Electric_
This shows a multi-row CU with DP disconnectors using a dual L&N bus bar (comb).
@@johnburns4017 Thanks John, will take a look
At my houses rewire, I shall be specking a box like this
Good thinking David
Way do you have to use AFDDs and RCBO way not one or the other?
Just in the process of changing a 17th to a double stacked 18th for this exact reason
Thanks for commenting
Nice tash!!!!
What is the specs of that double pole busbar? Could not find it on your links.
We used a rubber strip like on the seam of car door fits really nice and tight , no clue what it’s called or where from though 🤦♂️
Yes.
Nice job. Always makes me laugh that while doing theory in college they talk a lot about the need to consider correction factors for cable grouping and ingress protection standards but when I turn up at a lot of properties the service head is exposed to all weather within a smashed up box and when removing consumer unit covers its a messy birds nest of cables. How can this be allowed within current standards
What is allowed, what is good practise etc etc.....is not always what people do in reality. It is shocking what some some people do, skilled or otherwise out in the real world.
Metal consumer unit to contain a fire within the board but two large holes in the rear for cable entry?
Does anyone know if the older Acti9 PowerTags fit the newer Easy9 RCBO range?
have you done a video on the difference between an rcbo and a afdds.
The difference is that each provides very different protection.
I quite like the idea of this though I do not like the AFDD double rail bus bar. Hopefully it's constructed in a way that they're sliding block terminals on the AFDD's and not cages otherwise the potential for incorrect termination is more than doubled due to how it's fitted. The SBS boards David has showcased a couple of times, and the Schneider Acti9 are much better implementations.
Have to admit if we're required to use those 2DIN AFDD's modern consumer units, let alone pro-sumer unit's won't be big enough.
No AFDD's in my new 29 way double stack FuseBox CU and even that's basically full after solar/battery/ev on top of regular circuits. I can picture having to move onto Triple Stack units like the continent if manufacturers aren't making 1 DIN AFDD's and the requirement for them expands.
The Continental consumer units are way superior in design to the outdated junk we turn out.
Interesting, what do building regs require new builds come with? Until they start coming future proofed houses will need retrofitting. Is it possible to know what can be fitted into a property in the future and future proof it and will a builder pay for that? Nice idea, can't see it catching on.
Leaving space for one may be one way to help out, but stopping anyone filling it with something else could be problematic.
Theres looming 3 phase as standard...
@@T_Perkins I've heard, I wonder if it'll be properties of a certain size?
Using three phase across the board would help generally as it would even the load on the grid, thickness of cable needed to achieve the same throughout as well.
A lot of the driving force is grid side, rather than consumer side. I'd imagine service heads will be three phase in any dwelling or building where there are more than 2 bedroom.
2 phase could be a thing.
But I was doing total load on a two up two down with everything on that is electrical and it came to around 170amps. (Full on if all storage heating included)
Obviously, that's rather ambitious of someone to have everything on at once but I can think of someone who might be able to use that once in a while... Lol
I know domestic 3 bed homes are likely to have it as standard in the next couple years, especially as car charging and heat pumps are alreadyandadted and I can't see how a 100amp single phase would cope.
Where is earth connection for cpc’s of circuits connected to afdd’s (top of the board)?
At the top of the enclosure
@@efixx I see only 5 cpc’s from afdd circuits but no earth link to incoming earth above main switch
Is there any point in protecting the edges of the knockouts if the holes behind the board are smaller than the knockouts themselves? The cables are naturally away from these edges because of this.
Would also be a nice touch if oval shaped open grommets were supplied with the board instead of cutting and gluing. 🤷♀️
I find Schneider are well engineered products.
3:37 it is allowed to put two wires in one connection in uk? you have so much space...
It’s a ring final circuit, a peculiarity to the UK and British influenced countries. They’ve been talking here about stopping installing them, but people still do and they are still perfectly acceptable and legal. They were devised during WWII to save on materials. You can use cable with a smaller csa than in a radial circuit.
I know your target audience is mostly sparks, but as I am an IT Pro with an electronics engineering background (almost exclusively DC, so AC is a bit of a stretch for me), I think it would be beneficial to have more knowledge of AC systems, I'm also in North America, and other than the voltage, frequency, and phase differences (split-phase 240V giving us the common 120V which people think our system is), there's also fundamental equipment differences. You have done videos on how other countries do things, hut it appears that North America is the only place that doesn't use DIN rail mounting systems in residential/consumer systems. Our Circuit Breaker Panels (or Load Centres) are more similar to your industrial distribution units, but you guys also seem to separate your arc and ground protections from your circuit breakers. We seem to have ground and arc protection either in the receptacle or integrated in the circuit breaker itself, not a separate device in the panel, except for surge protection (I still havent seen a schematic that helps me understand how this works, in DC, you'd want the surge protection before any load, iirc). But regardless of how the panels are designed, they all seem like a rats nest of wires that seem to go all over the place. Even though network racks can be rats nets, when wiring is done eifht and neat and tidy its generally all point to point, no fishing cables all over the place, and looks neat and straight forward. I haven't really found a Canadian channel (my preference as a Canadian, and there are differences between the CEC and NEC) like yours, and while there are some American channels but nothing quite as good or informative (except for the home networking and wifi stuff you have touched on). Electrical systems, communications systems, and IT systems are all converging. Could you guys do a video, maybe find a Canadian and/or a US channel to collaborate with to compare and contrast the differences and then explain the basics of how the breaker panel and consumer unit (and maybe even the UK industrial distribution centre) are wired and what each type of device does, why it's positioned where it is in the circuit, etc. Maybe make a series of it. Doesn't have to be too detailed, just the basics. Also, talk about the different types of devices, their acronyms, and equivalents between NA and the rest of the world (RCBO, AFDD, SPD, GGCI, AFCI, RCD, MCD, GFPE, etc.)
AFDD is very new in the UK, so only starting to appear. The DIN rail system at present that most use, is archaic and needs binned. It doesn't help anything or anyone. Made even worse when you have RCBO's with stupid flying leads for neutrals and earths. Working on such boards in maintenance, replacing faulty items years down the line, especially fully populated large 3PH boards. It's just a total disaster.
Until people have been in that role....nobody seems to give a single consideration to those repairs when doing new installs. And inevitable they will come.
And now they're adding more devices like AFDD's and there isn't even any way to actually test if they work or not. Can't test MCB's, Can't test AFDD's, the only thing you can actually test is an RCD. So strange.
Then SPD's are being pushed, forced, under the pretence it will protect electrical equipment. And I've even see contractors advertising this statement. Leave them massively open if someone does lose very expensive equipment for whatever reason.....then says to the contractor "here mate, you told me this would protect my equipment, you better pay up"
SPD's at source may offer some small level of protection, but they need to be giving more open and honest information about that ! And not blanket statement saying it will protect all. It will not !
Will you give that guy finally new gloves? :)
No, installed a multirow 2 years ago pending arrival of an EV. Small problem the hinged cover prevents the wireles current monitor from talking to the charger.
I'm always wondering how you guys across the pond cope with so few spots to put in your breaker box. I mean, first you guys have so little power going in - 240V at 60A, while North American houses typically get 240V 200A service. 30 years ago 100A service was being phased out. (And there's still 320A and 400A, and 600A services available, but those are typically for mansions). That is typically followed with a breaker panel suitable for 20 or more breakers. Granted, the 240V take two spots, but still a panel with 20, 40 or more breaker spots isn't unusual. And there are even "slimline" breakers to stuff twice as many breakers. Though with arc faults and such they fit in a standard breaker spot. Not quite sure how I could live with only 30A of sockets or so.
Great info thanks. The standard UK supply is typically 100A @ 230VAC but older supplies could be 80A or 60A. One of the network operators in the UK now installs three phase as standard. We looked at this in this video 👉ruclips.net/video/MNy60muYklo/видео.html
In Spain and Italy a standard supply for a property starts at 3 or 6kW making the UK seem incredibly generous
@@efixx I'm amazed by the amount of power you guys in UK have. Here in the Baltics, standard new flat has a 3 phase(400V) 16Amp supply, old ones usually have a 1 phase(230V) 16Amp supply, almost all houses have 3 phase, unless it's not available, and the power also starts from just 16 amps@400v, of course you can get a lot more if the grid supports it, but it's rare to see more than 40 Amp feeding a house.
Don’t forget here in the UK our sockets/outlets are wired into a 32amp ring. Where as you guys use radials this reduces the number of breakers needed. Most houses may have three breakers just for sockets. One for upstairs. One for downstairs and then one for the kitchen. High power appliances such as washers and dryer can plug straight into these circuits as they’re 13amps and a 32 amp ring will be plenty unlike the 15/20amp 120v outlets you have which then requires a dedicated 240 feed for those appliances
Not a spark. Space wise it seems wasteful when you can get combined RCBO-AFDDs which are basically like a tall RCBO and only take up 1 "slot"
Unfortunately you haven’t always got the room to fit something that size and also recommend does not always mean should . There are other options .
I used use the edging strip off old M E M 3ph D B for my grommet strips , 10 times better than that nylon rubbish .
Why the gloves . Is it cold
Schneider/Crabtree are great quality but, they don’t have great design. Saying that, I’ve yet to see a well designed board on the market lol
Best consumer units are in Europe !
As I‘ve said: Visit Hager in Germany and let them show you the Distributionboard of the future! That‘s what you should install in britain and nothing else!
We’d love to 👍
Looks like us elec maintenance engineers are going to replaced by house bashers the way they CU are expanding into pannel f**k me soon be having scaleance units and plcs in dam house
I have never understood why UK “fuse boxes” are tiny compared to, say, American and Canadian ones.
Don’t @me with “American houses are bigger…” stuff.
It’s literally the central control box of all your electrics for your house and it’s squashed in to a tiny box. 🤦♂️
The answer is no! They are absolutely KNX/EIB unfriendly, the whole busbar setup is a disaster that‘s about to happen and what should I say, a typical nice british installation is a shitshow nightmare to every german electrical contractor that installs up to the latest technology and code standards!
not big enough, and terrible archaic bad designs.