How to reuse Washing Machine Motors [Arduino vs Basic Triac control]
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- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2019
- Four different methods to reuse and control universal motors from old washing machines. These motors are known as ‘universal motors’ because the can be driven with both AC and DC current. We look at how to bench test the motors in the first circuit, before having a look at the second, a classic triac based control circuit that has been used in industry for decades.
The video shows how to adjust the speed of the motor and how to improve the classic triac based circuit by rectifying the output and driving the motor with direct current. The gives MUCH better speed regulation, for workshop type applications where the load will vary (eg. when the motor is used to drive a small lathe, disc sander or pillar drill).
The third circuit is one I haven’t tried yet, that builds on the previous circuit. It adds another, more sensitive trica that apparently helps the consistent triggering of the main power triac. Further reading on this circuit here: educypedia.karadimov.info/libr...
In the fourth circuit we look at how to control the washing machine motor with an Arduino. Here we are using a PID based algorithm and a closed loop system that adjusts based on the speed it senses from the motors tachometer. This is the system I am built into the multi-purpose rotary machine • Multi Purpose Rotary T...
I have been making. The control system uses the Arduino library written by Brett Beauregard playground.arduino.cc/Code/PI... , and circuit by Saulius Bandzevičius motor.run/hackster7
A components list to go with the fourth circuit diagram (the Arduino one) can be found here www.instructables.com/id/Mult... as well as a load of other build details.
A parts list for the second circuit is here: www.instructables.com/id/Make...
Be a rock star, subscribe to Flowering Elbow! ruclips.net/user/Flowerin...
Quick Links to Tables and Circuit Diagrams:
01:04 Table showing Typical connections on a Universal Motor (armature, field windings, tachometer, temp cut out)
02:27 1st circuit to power and test motor at mains voltage - no control, but limits RPM.
03:35 2nd Washing machine control circuit schematic using simple triac speed regulation.
04:03 Diagram of AC waveform and triac control firing.
05:49 Circuit diagram of improved speed regulation triac motor control. Uses a direct current low voltage supply to energize the motor’s filed winding, and rectified triac output to power the armature.
07:10 The 3rd Control Circuit: an untested improvement that uses an extra, more sensitive triac to send a pulse train to triac T1 once the diac’s break over voltage is reached. See here for more details on this circuit: educypedia.karadimov.info/libr...
10:37 The 4th diagram: Bandzevičius’ circuit diagram of Arduino based universal motor control. This uses closed loop speed regulation.
10:57 The motor control module of the Arduino control circuit. How the arduino triggers the power triac.
11:40 Relay control section of the Arduino circuit.
12:11 Rotary encoder speed adjustment diagram.
12:40 The LCD diagram part of the Arduino system. This displays the Real RPM and the RPM we want the motor to be spinning at.
13:00 The tachometer pulse detection circuit. This inputs to the arduino the actual RPM of the motor so that the PID algorithm can work out how much current to send to the motor.
13:24 LM393 comparator pinout diagram.
13:56 The zero cross detection circuit. This detects when the AC waveform passes through zero volts - something the Arduino needs to know to properly time the triac triggering.
14:22 PC817 photo coupler chip pinout. Used to isolate the Arduino from mains voltage.
Lets Connect!
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WARNING: these circuits use mains voltage, which can kill. Only attempt these circuits if you are a competent person in this area.
Music:
"Tachanka Machine Gun Cart Russia" by Leon Lishner and Friends CC BY SA 3.0
That was a really good explanation of how the triac power control circuit works.
That was a real help in building a potters weel driven by a washing maschine motor. Thank You so much for making this video available
Friends! Thanks so much for watching! I found this a tricky subject to do a video on, and really hard to know what experience and knowledge to assume. It took me a long time to get to grips with a lot of this stuff - and I still have lots to learn. I don't expect it will make complete sense on the first go, straight through - but if you pause the video to study the diagrams, hopefully it will become clear - any questions, just ask! I made a quick link reference to the circuit diagrams in the description, which may be handy.
I'd love to hear what, if any, projects are you planning to use these versatile little motors for??
If you want to support my effort consider leaving me a little tip via Patreon: www.patreon.com/floweringelbow
This is just the right level of knowledge and experience to assume for me.... most electronics videos on RUclips either go miles above my head or cover in detail things that I find obvious. This is just right in the middle ground. More stuff at this level would do me just right... it's a pity I'm not a woodworker (at school, my woodwork teacher said to me "do you want to be a butcher when you grow up, son?!" 'cus then I could "tuck in" to all your videos.
@@@edgeeffect Good stuff. I wouldn't consider myself a 'woodworker' as such. Maybe a 'wood player' or even 'wood butcher' ;)
Amazing how little throw away comments from authority figures like teachers can shape a person's interests... If it's any encouragement I stuff up more than I succeed with my wood related adventures - I just got a bit better at either hiding or featuring my mistakes! If you like, consider watching this video to see what I mean: ruclips.net/video/qoyDBgW7weA/видео.html
Its not just woodwork, promise, and the end is worth waiting for ;)
Peace, bongo.
PS what are you planning to use the motor for?
Try using the speed regulator from a vacuum cleaner. Works like a charm.
H
.
What is the maximum rpm u can achieve?
I've seen this diac/triac circuit "a million times" before... but this is the first time I've heard it simply and concisely explained and the "ooh that looks complicated" just disappeared... ... and then you chuck in the whys and wherefores of the snubber network too..... excellent!
Hey Edgeeffect. That's really nice to hear, thanks! I was going for the kind of explanation I was after a few years ago, to make it understandable. Good luck with whatever method you choose.
Top tip! When using a triac optocoupler trigger AND you want to use zero crossing detection the MOC3061 series combines BOTH into one 6 pin DIP package that is the same as the MOC3023.
Hope that is useful.
Cool, thanks for sharing Bob!
Hi. Most useful explanation of speed control specific for UM I have seen thanks especially addressing the hierarchy of torque and responsiveness control and I have been looking for good content on this for sometime. Even Jeremy fielding and TPAI never REALLY addressed the DIY circuits for UMs which would give effective performance. Thanks You have definitely plugged a gap and good verbal and visual guides with good referencing. Thanks
Hi Jim. Thanks for watching and your encouragement 🙏 means a lot to me :)
Man, this is exactly what I contemplated but have not figured out, including the zero crossing circuitry. Thanks a lot. Will have a good look and possibly make one of this. I have loads of universal motors!
Almost logged off when I found my old washing machine motor winding measuring 0 ohms. So glad I kept watching to find out what to do with my 3.5" disks. Cheers!
Good evening, Hartkids, Excellent! Glad the vid was of some use to you ;) For more on the disk boxes check out my instructable: www.instructables.com/id/Upcycled-Component-Organiser/
That was exceptionally well done, such a clear explanation - thank yuou
Just found this chanel, mate, it's brilliant. I'm lacking a workshop at the minute but this has made me want to get into some electronic projects in the spare room.
Hey Ben, Thanks! Hope you get a workshop space to use soon. Electronics is something I often do in the living room :D
Mate, that was a real pleasure !! Good on you dude :)
Fantastic resource - no nonsense, just careful advice and common sense. Thanks
Appreciate that Patrick, 😊 🙏
Incredibly good tutorial! I have learnt a lot! Thanks so much!
Hello nieghbour (Hereford). I hope you and your family are staying safe during this time. I too have an affinity to washing machine motors. I had started building a family electric car using bicycle parts and 8 washing machine motors. Rear wheel drive with 4 driving each double rear wheels. I shall be wandering through your videos during lockdown to see what else I may be able to make for my outside workshop. Enjoy the sun my new friend.
Hey Raymond! Thanks for saying hello. The car sounds like an ambitious project! Fun though. Hope you find some of my other vids useful. Cheers for now, Bongo.
Hmmm, smart and attractive are always a bonus when watching informative technical videos! Looking forward to more good weather and more of your videos. I'm trying to slow down the router on my CNC machine so I can safely use a hole centering bit. The slowest speed the router spins is 12,000 RPM. The motor is a universal motor, and the router is a Makita RT0701C. The arduino circuit sounds like fun, but I think the 1st or 2nd circuits are all I need. Currently the router has some kind of closed loop microcontroller circuit embedded in epoxy, so under normal use I'll have a toggle switch to give control back to that. Great video!
Sounds like a cool project. I agree with you, the 2nd circuit should suffice. Let me know how it goes. Good luck!
Excellent work, well done! Many problems solved here.
Hi Klave. Thanks for the encouragement:)
this is just what ive been searching for ,for months, it gives the informaation that all the other tutorials omit. now I can get to work on my potter,s wheel without the clay flying across the studio floor thank you so VERY much
He Frederic, thanks for this, it means a lot to me to know this stuff is useful for someone at least ;)
So are you planning an arduino circuit or one of the simpler ones? Good luck, Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow Hello, thanks for the reply, It's rear to get a response from you tube presenters and it's very gratifying. In answer to your question, most probably I face the challenge of the Arduino but I need to get some sort of control as soon as possible, so I'm going for the quick solution first and progress to the finer details later, but I need some info. on the details of the circuit regarding the components, In the list it gives D2 as " Varistor 385VAC " I'm a bit confused as adjacent to the TR1 there is D2 and D3 so it looks as if D2 is duplicated but as far as I know a Varistor 385 is a disc type capacitor, Can you please clarify this for me, also I shall be making my own TR1 so could give me some idea of the values of turns to give me the output.
Again thanks
@@fwbartlett1940 Good morning and thanks for your reply. I am guessing from your message that you will be aiming for the 3rd circuit I list in the video - the one that runs the motor on rectified direct current. The good thing about that is that you can first make the simpler 2nd circuit, check it works, then add on from there...
D2 and D3 are identical diodes, which when combined with the centre tap transformer Tr1, are simply an efficient way to produce full wave rectified current. If you didn't have a centre tap transformer (and if you are making your own you probably wont) you would want to use a full wave bridge rectifier here instead...
The varistor is used for transient suppression read up on varistors here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varistor You could probably get away without this component...
I would love to hear how your transformer making goes - it's something I have always planned to do but never have. I have a stash of microwave oven transformers, just waiting to be rewound - there's lots of good info out there on reusing these. I believe the number of turns should be easy enough to work out through a few experiments, and the voltage requirements are not at all precise for this application - anything from about 8 - 20V would do, so long as the transformer can handle the current requirements your good.
Hope that helps, Bongo.
hello I almos mist it, there's no reference to T2 situated between the POT. and the diac, it looks like another diac, but unidentified
@@fwbartlett1940 see here for more details on that circuit: visit.news/pdf94 I haven't made it myself and don't know values for that triac.. If you don't want to do experimenting/ research, make the previous circuit with only one triac... Hope that helps, B.
Very good and helpful video - thank you!
Excellent lecture!
Excellent work
Really informative Video, and yes some things would be Vetter presented in a page, but you give a very nice recap oft what you can do, and the pros of each method. Washing machine motors are everywhere, and making them reusable is very useful. Thanks again
Wow! Terrific video! Not only super useful but also some great ideas for reusing old stuff like floppy disks and a mouse wheel! Suggestion for a future video: Creative uses for (or upcycling) salvaged electronic components
Really interesting and informative. Thanks.
To me, this was super awesome.
The hot air gun is the best idea ever. You are fun to watch man. I am learning a lot. You are getting to the heart of the matter of everything we are all trying to learn, and we are all trying to learn the same stuff. Mainly, how can I make my own CNC lathe. The treadmill motor seems to be the solution for a lot of people. Great stuff man. I also want to slow down a vacuum and make that less noisy but without spending a fortune on a VFD that might just break and then be a total loss. And they are way too expensive. Also, in your video title, it has Arduino vs Basic Triac Control and that is so inviting. We all know Arduino, and just by the title alone, I hit the subscribe button while waiting for the Skip Ad button to come on, and then hit the thumbs up button. I knew it was going to be decent, but I did not think it would be anywhere near this good, and I am not even all the way through it yet. I am very glad to find this channel. Thank you.
Seriously, thanks for the subscribe, and for watching Jeff! Hope some of my other videos, which are all over the place, live up to your expectations :)
Amazingly how come are you great at several trades, from electrical/electronics to timbers cutting? , so special.
Hey Hitiyise, thanks :D
Thank you, you have earned one more subscriber!
Finally a decent pwm controller with recycled parts!
Thanks Kenzo, means a lot.
@@FloweringElbow Thanks to work as people like you
Really informative Video
Well, you earned a new subber!
Love this! Great video, principals well explained. I am very interested in the idea of using a DC treadmill motor. They are often rated at 1.5 - 2.5 Hp. Thanks!
Thanks Mark! The cool thing about treadmill ones is that you can often salvage the controller with them. That's what I did with my pillar drill... and it worked a treat until I over did it trying to cut a 6" holesaw hole in stainless, and fried the controller. That's why I now use the 2nd one I showed in the vid... Works really well. Peace, Bongo.
principles well explained
NOT
principals well explained
You have to learn the difference between PRINCIPLE and PRINCIPAL
Suggest you invest in a dictionary and undertake an extensive reading
program to improve your knowledge of the English language.
You can do it.
You're not wrong about not getting it all on the first pass... having to pause and re-watch some of the circuit explanations, but I think I'm getting there... that washing motor thats been gathering dust is soon gona be running me thinks... thanks for the inspiration.
Nice one Dude .... thanks :)
Exelent job dear .i love you work .great job.
Hi Abdul. Thank you my friend.
Brilliant..what a great vid..
Hey man great work!
Can you specify the input voltage of the gate control circuit and what's the value of R3 = 100R?
What's the value of the varistor at the right hand side of the 1st circuit? Thanks.
Dear FloweringElbow, I made a similar circuit (4th circuit type arduino angle control) but without closed loop. In other word a circuit like a dimmer. All is working ok when I control a bulb lamp light. When instead I connect the circuit to an universal motor without any physical load some strange things happen. The motor starts at the imposed velocity and then at a random time it "jump" for some istant to another velocity value (higher), then return to the set one. For 10, 15 seconds all is OK and then again the motor "jump" on another higher velocity (not the same as before) and so on. What do you think about the problem? Thanks.
thank you for clarify this topic
You are most welcome Eldzi
Using 2 12v batteries. Tried 3 wires, two from battery to brush and wining and third from winding to bruh. Needing more torque than the usual 3 wires set up can give. Can you give more info on this?
Amazing thanks for sharing!
You bet, thanks for watching!
Well put together video and on the ball with your info ..... Subbed. .... also if you use the BT series of triacs, BTB has the live tab, BTA is insulated tab.
Hi Allbeit, Thanks friend, and welcome aboard! Thanks for the useful info on the BTA triac too :D
That motor has a built-in taco generator.
Mmmmm. I want one of those!
Nice info, thank you:)
Okay I think I understand the last motor control circuit but what are the resister capacitor combination doing in the one controlled by ardinuo. Would the ac just go around the triac?
This is also a very good idea vor a lathe, these motors are powerfull enough for this work en it has rpm adjustment with tacho so always full strength.
very good very nice.
What glue did you use to stick the floppy disks together for those boxes?
I watched this video a long time ago and I was reluctant to try it. Fast forward to my latest video I had to unsolder many large capacitors from a pcb. I tried my very slow method on the first capacitor using a soldering iron, as usual it took along time. So I remembered your method using a heat gun and gave it a go. Wow, wow and more wow it worked so well! The only problem was that I put the heat gun too close and it burned out the heating element wire. So now I have to buy a new one.
Hey Lucky, good to hear from you. Haha 😄 yeah it sure does help with the larger components! I must say that I've fried a few components by lingering too long with the hot air, but in general it rocks...
Saw your vid on the vfd dismantle BTW. Keen to see what you're building with the components 😀
@@FloweringElbow I have got a 150 amp alternator to use as a portable welder to repair fences on my rural property. I only needed the diodes from the vfd for the welder but it was great fun dismantling it and seeing how it worked. As this is not a every day item found in the home I thought it would be great to show others what is inside a vfd.
@@luckygen1001 yeah it was cool to see !
is a washing machine motor duty cycle s1? can we run a 500 watts 2800 rpm for hours without damaging it?
Hello. Thanks for the brilliant video... Just a confirmation... With your second circuit does the torque increase/decrease/remains same with decrease in speed of motor??
Hi Anurag, Good question, it depends on what speed you are decreasing from/ to. But in general, it will reduce at lower rpm (say 500 to 50rpm). Running it on DC, with a low voltage high current transformer to energise the field windings improves this a lot! Hope that helps. Good luck.
Hello,
I plan to use a universal motor for a DIY lathe.
I copied Brett Beauregard's code and included recommended libraries, including Rotary.h. But the Arduino compiler does not recognize the "process" function: "'class Rotary' has no member named 'process', following the code: " unsigned char result = r.process(); " line 227. It also does not recognize the DIR-CW and DIR_CCW parameters.
Did you have this problem? And if so, how did you solve it?
Thank you in advance for your help.
Wow, that was astonishing! Perfect work ! Please write me, why are you once in the tshirt and other time you wear sweater and big cap :-)
Is there, where you are, the temperature changing so dramaticly ? Thanks.
Haha. That's Welsh weather for you! One day it's very hot the other, raining cold and blowing a gale.
@@FloweringElbow ...that is similar to our April weather :-), but the cap is cool for sure ! :-)
@@rudolfzaris675 lolz. Thanks. I try and smuggle it into all of my vids ;)
@9.22 nope in fact it's "a thing of beauty a joy forever" as dave at eevblog would say
I have one of those motor thar you show in your video , well the one I have" 5 wires " I want to put the wires of that motor to a whirlpool washer I don't want to put the motor just the wires to the whirlpool washer the motor from the whirlpool I want to use can I use that motor from whirlpool washer the other washer was a front loader ?can I use the motor from whirlpool washer?
Nice
BloomingHumerus: Sir,
1 - Congratulations on an informative erudition. The resistance measurements were of great interest to me. Thank you.
2 - Cct 3 with Tr1, D2 and D3 was especially interesting as it provides protection against runaway in an otherwise conventional series motor.
3 - I shan't follow up the Arduino cct with its expense and complication, but it's very interesting anyway.
4 - The motor you demonstrated had a tacho . I'm not sure if all washing m/c motors have. It is possible however to provide feedback from a small resistance placed in series with the motor, whereby conduction angle is increased to compensate for speed reduction on-load. This can be done in a simple half-wave SCR circuit or developed into a full-wave circuit by feeding the H/W cct from a FW rect. These aren't my own invention, they were published by RCA in "Solid State Power Circuits" © 1971.
5 - Wireless World July 1977 published a simple halfwave SCR cct for electric tools (drills at that time) by K C Johnson. It would require higher rated SCR for a washing M/C motor. It is of interest as it uses motor back-EMF to provide speed feedback so as to reduce speed drop on load. Such back-EMF is measured during SCR off-time.
6 - I add that half-wave ccts can only run the motor to half maximum power. Some simple speed reducers in the past were provided on power tools by switching in a simple diode in series!
7 - One might add that such DIY electronic cards as you have used might be prone to voltage breakdown. Tracks or pads on such cards can be picked off by overheating with a soldering iron where necessary to provide extra isolation. The recommended clearance for 240V is 1.5mm.
8 - re live heatsinks, there are insulated triacs whose exposed metal face is insulated, so you can touch their heatsink!. Example: SGS type BTA-08 series. Expect these to have a higher thermal resistance.
I hope the above may be of some interest to some of your viewers, as your video has interested me.
I don't think one can attach files to these replies, but would be prepared to scan and forward all/any of the above schemes.
Best regards from Clive, Dip EE.
Good afternoon Clive. Thank you so much for your comment, I'm very much the amateur experimenter, so it's great to hear from someone so qualified.
1. Thanks Clive, I think I had these measurements from the motor and checked them against some published in a fantastic book: "Electric Motors in the Home Workshop" (off the top of my head - or something like that)... It's a bit dated now, but is fantastic none the less.
2. Yes, I too am intrigued by this one - though haven’t tested it much myself…
3. Agree with your assessment. I was intrigued enough to have a crack at it, but in future will stick to simpler circuits.
4. Very interesting.
5. Certainly worth following up for anyone interested in making these circuits. I will check this out next time I am needing a motor & controller.
6. Agree, yes.
7. Good to know, thanks!
8. Yes I did know about this. In fact, if I am not mistaken the triac I used did have an insulated heatsink mount, but I thought it worth throwing the caution out there for people anyway, it’s so very easy to just check the temp. without pausing to think whether….
Thanks again Clive, I really enjoyed your thoughtful feedback on this little projects. I really hope some of my other videos will also be of interest to you - though this is probably the most electronically detailed… Thanks again,
BloomingHumerus 😉
I can't find where to download the sketch for this project....?
Enjoyed your video and learned quite a few things ,I have a universal washing machine motor with 9 wires coming out,I have got a motor controller which is meant to control foward and reverse and speed ,the connection points are LABELLED K2-Reverse
K1- Foward
0V
S2 velocity feedback
S1
Z2 Secondary Winding
U2 Main winding
N&L Supply
Need help hooking this up to motor
Deep respect. Certainly more than I bargained for and will have to watch a few more times. I bought a triac kit from FleaBay to run my motor and it blew up. Defo needs more study
Thanks Nicco. Which kit was it, if you don't mind my asking?
FloweringElbow this or similar rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F272989993447 I never did what I’d hoped, controlled speed range was poor and it quite quickly gave up and the motor was in runaway mode. If I could find a good control method that I can do without having to understand, I have many uses that I’d like to get these motors into.
Rereading my comment, I should make clear that the circuit gave up, not the motor
Very nice
Thanks, hope it was useful :)
Awesome !
:D
hello sir you a the best and professional enginer. I like too much
❤❤❤
Wow, thanks :D
Would it work if I just rectify the mains voltage with a bridge and then use an IGBT (possibly salvaged from an IH electric stove) to PWM the 300V DC? (A separated SMPS and an optocoupler will be used for isolated driving in order to prevent deadly voltages on Arduino board)
It should be able to...,but in this , its simplest form..low speed operation has its limits , even with just tacho gen. in the feedback loop...
Hey there ! I dont have your electronic skills and i have this kind of motor i'd like to use in a futur project. I'll come back to your video when ill work on this but my question was, how would you use a low cost pwm controler (to a arduino or a potentiometer) to control this motor, which kind and why, and what do you think about the quality of this kind of setup ?? Thank you for any reply ; )
Hey Co Fa. It's a big subject... I am guessing you mean something like a light switch dimmer? In my experience they tend to not be very durable with the back emfs and transients caused by the big motor...
I dont care abt the negative comments, i loved it.. keep em comming!
Thanks Dave, appreciate that 🙏
SJ, is there a prob with the links as i get a return from BL.ink not found? Is this youtube messing about? Cheers.
@@davebradberry5879 Thanks for this. They were suffering from what I guess you might call digital rot! Have updated the description now so hopefully all working :)
Thanks again. Bongo.
Great video Stephen, so my plan is to creat a 6 axis arm, a bit like a kuka krc4, any additional advice mate?
Good luck! Look at servo motors, designed for those kind of applications. They will work a lot better than a universal motor. I've seen people add a rotary encoder to permanent magnet treadmill motors to create servos, but it's hard to beat an 240v AC servo motor and controller - it's what we're using on the CNC machine we made.
Right on man, thank you so much for the reply.
What does everyone recommend to use as a tachometer for the final solution presented in the video? I've been trying to use an infrared emitter and detector with a black spot on the shaft but it's inconsistent. Another thought I've had was to make a disk with holes like they have in most systems using infrared and have the emitter and detector facing each other instead of depending on them reflecting off. Finally, I thought about using a hall effect sensor to detect a magnet but I'm unsure about this method since the magnet will be glued onto a shaft spinning at 30000rpm.
Do you have any other suggestions?
For reference, I'm using a Dewalt DW660 for the motor. It will be used as a spindle in a CNC machine (MPCNC).
Hi Elior, thanks for the question. Hopefully someone who knows better than me will chime in here, but my vote would be for the disk with a couple of holes in, and the emitter and detector facing.
What I have learned is that Arduino, and sensors, and A/D converters, ... none of them work in real life. That is my experience. Stuff gets stuck. Clogged. It just stops working. What helps is to have individual reader chips, like little AT45's, (tiny arduino chips) that do nothing but read 1 and only 1 A/D converter. That will help you more than anything else. If you try to put a bunch of A/D readers (pins) on 1 arduino, ...and read continually looping through all the stuff, ... it just does not work in real life. It sort of works. I don't know if it is the sensor, or the AD converter, or circuit noise, or bad luck, or what. Or if the processor just can't handle it. But it never seems to work that well. Not reliably. 1 chip per reader seems to work best. That is how people who do this do it. I tried to build an optical encoder once and the stuff they give us to work with does not work, or not very well, or not like it implies. Reading a temperature sensor once every 10 minutes is very different than a continual read on 6 AD analog IN pins on an Arduino.
@@jeffbeck6501 Good points all. I am coming to similar conclusions, after lots of messing with this stuff.
I'd be inclined to use a hall effect sensor. Whether you have than off the end reading a disk or off the side reading a dip or protrusion is something mostly determined by the space it's being fit into.
THANKS >>>>>>>>>>>
In the 3rd circuit, what is the part # for T2? The PDF you linked to just explains the theory of operation. EDIT: I tested circuit #3 using the same Triac for T2 and that worked. See my further comments below.
Yep. Good question. As I have yet to build that one, I'm not sure... Anyone here built it? Try searching for sensitive gate trigger triac... This one would involve a degree of experimentation.
But I recon, if you are aiming to adjust your spindle to a fixed speed for hole sawing - the 2nd circuit would be fine.
@@FloweringElbow It appears that the whole series of triacs from STmicroelectronics are "sensitive gate". I don't know if I can post the link, but digikey lists the T1 triac and a swath of other STmicro's as sensitive gate, so I'm assuming whatever you choose for T1 would work for T2. Let me try to post the link: www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/sensitive-gate-triacs/273.
Also @FloweringElbow, I think you misunderstood, the bit isn't a hole saw, it's a conical shaped bit for finding the center of a hole if for example you took your material out of the machine, but needed to find the exact center of some hole on that material if you needed to do additional work (mostly for metal).
@@FrankenLab Ah ha - understood. Now we just need someone to try the circuit and test out the two triac system in practice...
@@FloweringElbow I may give it a try, electronics is more my forte. I probably won't have time for a couple weeks, but I'll update when I do.
@@FloweringElbow Update on T2 for circuit #3
I just finished wiring and testing circuit 3 as shown in the schematic using another BTA26 and I confirm it works! Initially I forgot to complete a connection and I thought I didn't work. Also, the STmicro Triacs in that series that end with BW or CW are snubberless, so that part of the circuit can be eliminated if you use those part #'s, for example BTA26600BW. Also the schematics don't list a voltage rating for the capacitors, I'd choose them so their AC voltage rating is AT LEAST double your line voltage. The Varistor is also missing voltage specs, in the US with 120vac, probably 200-250v would be sufficient for that, so in Europe I'm guessing 300-450v.
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Hahah. Welcome Rafael, thanks for joining us :)
I like to remake the controls of my washing machine using an esp32 (can be nicely integrated with home assistant) the rpm of the motor also needs to be controlled by the esp32 like to use a digital to analog controller to get the controlling voltage. Like to know how you would approach this. Thanks for the upload. :-)
Hey Ronald, good questions, and unfortunately I'm the wrong person to ask and wouldn't know where to start with the esp32...
14:25 : PC817 datasheet says max input peak voltage is 3Vcc, but with your configuration are we not inputting 230V (rectified 230VAC into 230V pseudo-CC)?
Or are the resistors of any help ? They are not in a voltage divider configuration...
Hi there Takix, I dint do any calcs on this as I was going off Saulius's circuit... When I glanced at the datasheet, it looked more like the supply voltage was 80V, could be wrong. Either way, I think the voltage drop across the resistors make it work.
As for the bonus Q, you left on instructables - yes, two 60k resistors in parallel, should be ok to replace the one 30k 0.5W as I don't imagine it's close to the current limit...
@@FloweringElbow ok, I'm a donkey, I kinda forgot how LEDs (and electricity, by the way...) work... The 2x 30k series resistors under 230V limit the current to around 4 mA, which is totally OK for the LED in the optocoupler, whose max forward current is 50 mA.
The 230V situation is less common than say 5V for me, but it is exactly the same situation with a 2V forward voltage LED for which you add a current limiting resistor of some hundred ohms.
With appropriate current limiting resistors, LED could run on lightning bolts 😜
Is it pissible to Control the Speed without a Tacho? I got a cheap single Phase Controller for induktive Motors and the Speed Control Just won't Work. Forward/reverse is No Problem. But the Motor Starts to get warm very quick. It originall had 2 capacitors with a start delayed shutoff for one of them.
These 2 caps. type motor , is typically a Capacitor Start , Capacitor Run motor....where the C Start is mechanically disconnected/ dropped out of circuit after it reaches a particular speed.. this is done with a centrifugal switch mounted on the rotor shaft internally ..it breaks/open circuits the start cap...
Such motors should not be operated below that speed.hence that winding overheats..its meant to provide high current for high starting torque only at start up.
Now a days some such motors come with PTC mounted resistors and there's no need for the centrifugal sw.
This PTC is selected based on approx.time it takes to allow high current through and by that time rated speed should have been reached ..
Thanks!
Sounds good, but I'm clumsy so I'd like the end result to have no exposed live surfaces I could grab by mistake
:)
Wise!
Pfffttt, what a two bit storage solution :)
Interesting video, thanks for posting. I noticed the components from old boards stored in boxes. Using a heat gun to quickly remove components from old boards is a handy idea. At 8:20 can anyone post a link to a RUclips video showing how to identify and sort the most useful components harvested from old boards.
Hi, thanks again Blackwoods. I don't know of a video myself, anyone?
No real need of a video just follow the advice below:
1. Learn how to be efficient and effective at removing components. The method shown here is a good one but not the only method
2. Always fix the board conveniently to give yourself that third hand ability. Use long nose pliers (as shown) and grip tightly, at the board level, the leads of the largest items and remove them first.
3. Apply heat gradually but swiftly around the solder side area and where possible jiggle the components. Use gloves for big items like chokes, transformers and large capacitors etc.
4. Remove EVERYTHING when starting out, beginning with the biggest and working downwards in size.
Hi
5. Capacitors are usually the easiest to identify with just two main types polarised electrolytics and non polarised others. After that there are countless variations but practically ALL capacitors will be value marked. Use Google images to help you learn various capacitor types, but electrolytics will be polarity marked (+/-). Sort later into types and values (incl voltage ratings). If you have space store and keep EVERYTHING!
6. Coils, ferrites, transformers should all be fairly obvious, especially through hole types.
7. Diodes, transistors etc should also be fairly obvious but a low cost component tester from eBay or elsewhere is a boon to assist in sorting and checking basic types. The markings on the transistor can be used to do an on line search. Look at lots of different images of such to get used to what you are seeing.
8. Resistors removed like this are useful for testing circuits when they are though hole or larger power resistors but everything else resistor wise can be a pain so buy some E48, E96 or similar series packs off eBay - they are not expensive (unless you are flat broke)
Once you have all components removed, check them for markings and values. Learn how to read resistor colour codes without thinking and for older equipment also learn capacitor colour codes.
Once you have a pile of bits you'll be surprised how quickly you will not only learn the type of component but how to check what it is and the more you learn that the faster you will recognise different components JUST by observing and reading type/value information. No video can EVER give you that knowledge and confidence - only time and immersive experience.
Finally, I graduated as an electronic engineer in 1975 ... And I'm STILL learning new stuff! 👍👍👍
отлично.наконец-то ардуино. по виду работает отлично. теперть вам надо научиться и показать нам как создавать печатные платы через термотрансферную бумагу на стеклотекстолите. спасибо очень здорово получилось. ну и песенка опять крутая,,😙😀
Спасибо :D
It looks like a very smart solution to using an SCR that is controlled via an Arduino to maintain maximum torque at any speed. Are you still using the motor controller and if so, how is it working for you?
Hey valvman. Am still using it yes. Has worked really well thus far except slow speed regulation is not quite as hoped... over 1800 rpm at the motor shaft (which I guess is still slow for these motors) is very effective...
It was a fun learning process but I would build circuit 2 if I was to make another controller. So simple and effective.
@@FloweringElbow Thanks for your reply. I was hoping to build one for a small bandsaw so I could change the speed to also cut mild steel. My initial plan was to put in a brushed motor and controller, but after seeing this controller, I am hoping it will do the trick without changing the motor out. This would mean running at slower speeds.
@@valveman12 this controller will work well with brushed motors. It will not work at all with induction motors though... depending on how big the band saw is (?) I recon a 3/4 hp motor might be a bit small... especially if you want to cut steel... things to consider.
@@FloweringElbow Yes, I understand. The only way to change the speed of a single-phase induction motor is to change the frequency. I already have a few metal cutting bandsaws, this is more of an experiment to learn something new. Thank you for your reply. ;-)
Execellent video's. Now if only they taught things like this in schools and colleges. 😊
They do though. They also teach you what you need to analyse circuits like this. The whole, “university doesn’t teach you anything”, attitude just isn’t true. In a lot of cases they might not teach what exact circuits to use but they teach you how to design the circuits and the principles of how it works, which is much more important. Anyone can take a circuit off of the internet and copy it, not everyone can design a circuit like that themselves.
Inspiring me to get out of a rut in retirement = Build my own lathe etc etc - old electronics git, UK
Hi - Just to let you know your blink links are not showing the information
Thanks for the heads up Superrascsl. Will fix when I get a mo...
8:55 "Tachanka" - Russian Revolutionary song. Unexpected surprise)
. . . or harvest the variable frequency controller that comes with the washing machine and feed it pwm through its serial port.
I was interested to build a speed contol circuit that actually controls a W/Machine Motor. I was impresded with your circuits.
When I built circuit #3, I found several bugs and mistakes. It shows that you presented a circuit that you didn't test. Can you redefine the circuit with regards to the 100 ohm resister where it actually goes and why is the 4k7 resister nearly burns as soon as you switch on!
Hi Oxford, thanks for getting in touch. Like I said in the video this is the only circuit I have not made, so I'm afraid I can't help you with the debugging... There's more reading on it here ruclips.net/user/redirect?event=video_description&redir_token=QUFFLUhqbVhhMjdRN2JzTUYxZHAxdDBzLXRNU3lBdmhqZ3xBQ3Jtc0trZkhvUUJvRTNRSE1fWmIxYzlYSmMtV3FHUTlVNXI4enV2SDVFMzE4UzczY245T0xwNnBQOVR4UXQ4QTVpOFp6alZiVjNGdGxZM1RSUldMZjluSkJVRWlsYnhnV0hFLURIZXdGQjBRa2V1d2kxRVh6dw&q=http%3A%2F%2Feducypedia.karadimov.info%2Flibrary%2FCD00003856.pdf
Good luck ;)
@@FloweringElbow
I went through the literature made by ST ELECTROICS and still I found the same irregularities.
1: The 4k7 ohm resistor goes to the L ac terminal and not to the mt2 of the triac.
2: The pot value would make more sense if it would be some thing near a value of over 250k ohms or more. As it is, the motor will run even with the pot turned fully low.
3: The snubber array is not connected parallel with the load but parallel to the main triac.
4: When I connected the 4k7ohms/1watt resistor to the L ac supply and tested it, smoke comes off as soon as I switch on. Even with no load!
5: I cannot figure what is the reason for the 330n capacitor.
6: The viristor across the load is also doubtful in that location.
Kindly check these points and give some comments.
This is definitely one of the better tutorials I've seen - However I still only understand half of the technical words you're using!
I have a washing machine motor I've pulled out of a typical machine and I want to try to use it to power a pottery wheel. Could anyone offer me some help or point me to a learning resource for those with a very basic knowledge of electronics? Thanks
Hi Lewiss. Thanks for getting in touch. Glad it was better. I recon If you watch it a few times you will start to understand - especially in combination perhaps with this book : www.amazon.co.uk/Electric-Motors-Home-Workshop-Practice/dp/1854861336/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b%20book
Hope that helps. Any specific questions, just ask.
Would you share your sketch for the last Arduino solution?
Hi Max, thanks for watching and commenting. You can get all this from the links in description... :D hopefully you found it already. Good luck!
I just used a pulse relay to run my washing machine motors. it's basically a 555 timer with a variable capacitor. i salvaged the power board from the washer, but needed a pulse wave of +5 v to get the motor spinning. my motor came out of a front loading machine. so my setup also has variable RPM.
Hey John. Very cool! I always wanted to also use the power board, but just didn't know how or where to put inputs. How did you identify where to attach the +5v pulse train? How is the speed controlled (higher frequency, higher speed?)? DO you need to worry about the zero cross, or is that all taken care of by the power board?
Thanks for watching and your interesting comment. Peace, Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow i discovered it by accident while trying to figure out why the motor would not turn. There is a connector on my board that goes to the microcontroller so i figured that this was the place to start i had a 5 volt wall mounted charger and started to connect the 5 volts to the pins till i found one that caused the motor to make one revolution and it just stopped so i started touching the pin in pulses and the motor started to run, the faster i manually pulsed the motor the fater it turned, as far as the zero cross over goes the power board had that integrated into the circuitry so all i needed was to instruct the board what RPM to spin at, so i used a solid state variable time delayed relay to generate the pulses. Nothing but trial and error got this running.
@@FloweringElbow also this power board has a reverse pin that is turned on with +5v signal, i do not need that feature so i dont use it, but you could use your own microprocessor to control the motor for forward, reverse, RPM and it could agitate back and forth like in a front loading washer would do to balance the load. I just could not dispose of that nice motor, so i salvaged it with power board and wiring harness for a project.
@@John-100 This is a wonderful story. And great info - am so going to try this on the next scrapped washer I find... Thanks John!
Need help guys!
I can not find any information of the "BLDC" style washing machine motors with 5 pins (2 thicker wires and 3 thinner) I got: Aksollmotor BPM 8/19 110/ARK 230Vac 50-60hz 6A 900W cl180.
I would like to refurbish it for an ebike with a converter or something, but no information that i could find on internet on connections and what is needed.
Hi Matjaž Čeh, thank you for the question. Afraid, I have no experience with BLDC motors from washing machines. Here in the UK they are only just starting to become popular, so haven't had time to filter through to the junk stream yet ;)
Good luck with your bike project,
Bongo.
@@FloweringElbow Thx for the replay. Guess ill have to wait it out until someone does :>
@@manipulativer sorry I couldn't be more help friend.
Hi again.
I've just tried that tachometer schematic, and I can't seem to make it work. The circuit in it self looks to be working, and by that I mean it's connected correctly, but my tacho-sensor is probably what's wrong.
I've tried different diagrams, but I get really weird readings. Mostly when the motor is running at low RPM it's (mostly) 5 digits readout, but around 60-75%-ish it goes bonkers, usually backwards. I suspect that it may be the capacitors that's causing this, but I've tried quite a few different ones now, and still nowhere near what it should be.
As for the tach-sensor, I've come to the conclusion that it generates about 12V at maximum speed, and I've tried a few diagrams with, among other things, 5,1V Zener diode to limit it, but to no avail.
I see no reason why this shouldn't work, really.
So, anyone has any other ideas???
And no, I don't want to hook up any Hall-sensor because I don't want any additional cables, nor any other type of sensor. It'd be nice to use what's already there.
After asking around on FB, it would seem that some tachometers delivers AC voltage, not pulses.
I only measured it once, and that was to verify that it was alive. Didn't think of measuring at different RPM's.
Seem kind of a stupid way to read the speed if it's basically a generator.
It can't get any more accurate than x(x) pulses/revolution. If you're getting an AC voltage you have to put that through a level converter, then to an ADC just to read something that most micro processors already have. Stupid! Unnecessary ASF IMO!
But, I guess there are as many types of tachometers and ways to read them, as there are stars you see when you're banging your head against something hard
ATM I'm going to skip that RPM-part, but I'll reserve a pin on the Arduino for it in case I decide to give it another crack.
It would seem that the MC3PHAC/FSBS10CH60 seem to work pretty well together maintaining the speed. Not yet tried water in the machine yet...
I have a ton of sh!t to put together. My little I/O-shield looks like a freaki'n scare crow with all the cables currently sticking out from it, just waiting to get connected to the other spots.
Sooo much stuff left to do.
Just finished two small PCB's yesterday. took several hours back & forth to troubleshoot some glitches. One was a home made PCB. No through plating, double sided and askew holes, and some breaks on the traces. Took easily 4-5 hours to get the sucker going. Contains 8 NPN-transistors with contact terminals for 1x RGB, and 4x LED's and one buzzer.
The other card took half that time, but had to wire with really thin cables (Wire wrapping wires - Say that three times fast!). It's a small prototype board. Also containing transistors, but for inverting the signal to my 8-way relay card module (Where some schmuck in China thought it was a good idea to have a logic zero (0v) as activation!).
Looks like crap, but it's at least working, at least what my multimeter, my eyes and the connected pins to the power supply was telling me.
It'll be something else to connect this to the Arduino and get them working as intended.
I'm also in the anguish whether or not to hook up a Triac to control the heating element instead of using relays which isn't optimum in terms of maximum life-expectancy for it. Also, it'll be better if I want to use "eco" mode not having to smack it up to maximum, but mainly I thought of this to save the heater.
WnotWeird, sounds like you are making progress! You have gone so far beyond my efforts, I really am impressed. Keep at it friend. Could you use a solid state relay for the heater element?
Peace, Bongo,
@@FloweringElbow I suppose I could, but I don't have any on hand, besides, that would only be on and off, which isn't optimal for any load since it's creating a surge spike. By using a Triac, I think, you're at least minimizing that. That's what I'm aiming for. Only real drawback is the energy loss that occurs in the form of heat. The same thing occurs with an Solid State Relay since it contains Triacs or whatever it was.
I think, btw, that PWM could theoretically be used for an SSR, but I don't think it's recommended. Haven't seen anyone using it for that.
Anyways, the Triacs have been purchased already, and an SSR is quite expensive so I'll go with what I have...
Just found this:
ruclips.net/video/kwenHPAZPcQ/видео.html
Not a perfect example as he only showed a neon light connected to it, but he didn't mention anything other than inductions being potentially bad. Heaters was ok.
If my Triac solution doesn't pan out, I think I'll consider getting one of these
Why did you wire it up so the heat sink was live? I know nothing about electronics so I am curious, it seems like it'd be something you'd want to avoid.
Actually that triac I used didn't have live heatsink connection, but some do. So it was more for the benefit of folks who might use that type, it's easily overlooked.
Hi there. I just got myself a washing machine for free, and there was a reason for that: Water damage, and order new circuitry could be done, but why not do it with Arduino!!?
So, I've got a few questions.
I'm not exactly a newbie, but not quite the opposite either, but why is there a 5W 100 Ohm resistor in series with a puny 100 nF capacitor? It seem to me that the capacitor will never be able to push up the current that high so it'll warrant that resistor.
On your Instructables page you're also mentioning at step 19 that you added a varistor in parallell R14 and C4. Had it been after R14 I could understand the 5W, but in parallel no.
So, feel free to elaborate on that one...
My memory on this is hazy, but from the circuits and reading I cobbled this together from, that seemed the recommended combo... Looking at it now I doubt it needs to be a 5W resistor. And I didnt use that in my simpler non-arduino circuits... Modify to suit your purposes (or to make it better) and let me know what you come up with ;)
@@FloweringElbow I was going to test build this one at first, then I realized that it wouldn't work, or sort of-ish. I turns out that there's an induction motor in my washing machine, so it's a 3-phase deal, and also it's labeled up to 195 Volts at a certain RPM that i don't recall at the moment, and I'm not sure if it's safe to smash on the full 230V on that. Probably it can take it, but I'm not sure about that, so I'm looking at some alternative solutions.
Found a schematic for a 3 phase driver (320volt.com/en/three-phase-motor-control-circuit-mc3phac-fsbs10ch60/), but the components are hard to come by, or at least not cheap. The driver circuit is fair in price, but not the other one which will go for about ~30-40 bucks a pop or so, and for those prices I could just as well order a replacement board for roughly the same price.
But the latter would ruin the whole thing, part the fun, part the DIY and part the usefulness. Also, I would like very much to write a program that uses an RTC so that that magical 1-2 minutes really is 1-2 minutes.
How often haven't one found oneself standing there like E.T staring at the machine which says 1 minute, and it sometimes jumps up by one minute, or just silently keeps showing that damn 1 minute for five minutes..!!?
Also, I have seen others recommending that induction should be swapped for the other one since it's easier to control.
But, I'd hate to waste something like that, especially since the machine is only a couple of months old and everything inside is almost brand new, apart from the water leakage that fried the board and whatnot...
@@YnotWeird I admire your drive to DIY this. But you are right - the induction motor is a Very different beast and this control circuit will not work at all...
you could look out for a cheap ebay VFD and control that with arduino - but then that's going to be a bit costly.
The deceptive timing on washing machines, is often them trying to get the load balanced before giving them the final spin: the machine has to try to get the clothes well distributed in the drum, and has a sensor to detect the vibration as it tests a spin up cycle - if it's not balanced enough it has to go back and try again for load distribution. If you're unlucky, or the washing consists on only a few big items this can go on for quite some time...
Anyway, good luck, let me know how it goes.
@@FloweringElbow Well, we'll see how thing turns out.
I have another washing machine which has a mechanical timer, and I don't think it has a micro processor. It does seem to have something that does this you're describing with the slow spin-up when it's trying to centrifuge, and if there's some unbalanced (I think) laundry, it shuts off and begin again.
This usually happens when I'm washing my mops and micro fiber cloths and instead of softener I'm using an all-purpose detergent (for not having to apply so much when using them), sort of preparing them). This creates a lot of foam, which I'm guessing clumps everything together.
It's somewhat annoying to listen to, since it begins to rotate slowly like normal washing cycles. It does this for a few revolutions, then it speeds up gradually. This generates a humming sound with a ascending pitch accompanied by the motors/belt/drums own sounds.
As I said, annoying.
This machine I'm going to rebuild is somewhat of an enigma. Never really done something like this, but I do have been inside older ones and for the most part figured out how they worked with the water level sensors and such.
This one however has a sensor near the top with a silicone tube attached at the bottom. I've tried blowing in it, and it seems like it's a two way switch. I think I heard a clicking-sound when I blew in it. Could have been something else. Haven't measured it, nor checked the control board either.
It just struck me it could be an active electronic sensor. It has three connectors.
But what strikes me as a bit odd (With the other machine in mind) is that there seem like there's no additional sensors, other than the hatch.
I thought of perhaps installing some vibration sensor in case someone would get the idea to wash a rock or something (???), so the machine won't start break-dancing in there and give birth to a washing drum through the side or something.
Choices I can think of is either a mechanical switch of some type, like a micro gap switch with an lever with a fair distance to the drum, or ditto with an accelerometer and find out some way to make an algorithm for it to sense abnormal actions.
It's a huge little program with lots of stuff to think about. At some point, if I ever get this sucker running, I'm going to implement it with another insane project for home automation and interconnect-ability between the central computer and displays and computers.
That's a bit shelved at the moment since I don't really have a proper home at the moment where I can do stuff like that.
That will among other things control a dishwasher, coffeemaker, fans, lightning and a few other things.
But, when it's time... Man am I gonna blow some cash/time/effort into it!
I admire your ambition. Good luck.
Удачи во всём, СУПЕР !!!
is th secomd circuit the same as a dimmer switch?
Hi Alan, very similar yes.
I highly recommend touching the heatsink and a conductive rod that's 10ft long with near all of it stuck in the ground
It's a great video. Don't do this
good ser
Thanks :)
My motor came with a control board with an ATMega chip and an ICSP.... it'd be cool to use the original hardware and just put some new application-specific software on the ATMega.... but the laborious reverse engineering will probably prevent me winning that "ace hacker prize" 'cus just using the circuits and code you suggest will probably be much quicker and easier. ;)
Find the +5 v pulse input on the control board, then get a pules circuit like a 555 timer and variable capacitor and the board will work. you might be able to find a solid state variable time delay relay that can generate 0 to 60 pules per second.
Muito bom meu amigo.
Amazing...great, i loved.
Oi amigo, obrigado por assistir e pelo incentivo: D
Do you make circuits for people i wish I understood whats going on with circuits at your level but I do not
Good morning Gator Dave. Thanks for this, I only really make hobby circuits for myself and only when I need to... My knowledge is very rudimentary...
@@FloweringElbow i was gonna say I would like to have this exact circuit for a ac motor im trying to control
This motor is big bomb can i use it with 3000w full sin wave inverter
I suspect so, but it would depend on the details. Peace, Bongo
@@FloweringElbow hey brother this motor motor is universal so we can run it on dc but will it give good torque just like it give on actually supply I Will connect it to motor cycle engine gears and dc supply is 80v !!!
Can we use it in a DIY elevator to lift objects?
Not recommended without lots of gearing and safety mechanisms.